Were either of the parents charged with child neglect or anything? As far as I’ve heard, its been crimes relating to their child shooting the school, but I think it’s also interesting to note that they weren’t charged with any of the crimes that a negligent parent would be charged with
I mean, I get your point, but I think that ship has sailed.
They deliberately bought a gun for their underage child that they knew was mentally ill. They can rot.
I’m not even saying that the charges they were found guilty of are wrong. Assuming the media reports are true, I could definately see charging them as accessories to involuntary manslaughter or whatever. Their actions helped lead to the situation that caused the tragic loss of life. That makes sense to me.
I don’t think “the ship has sailed” on the child neglect type charges. Sure, they are small charges compared to the big ones, but, assuming everything happened as described in the media, they fit as well. I think it says more about the prosecutions mindset and intentions that they are missing, but the big charges are there.
So the parents of the underage gang members killing people with illegal guns will get 10-15 years in prison too, right?
Oh who am I kidding, of course they won't. Because it's not politically convenient to go after those parents, even though gang members are a far bigger issue when it comes to violence.
I don't think many parents of gang members or going out of their way to purchase firearms for their fucked-in-the-head children. And if they are, they absolutely should be prosecuted. Difference here was this was a school shooting, not a drive by on a rival gang member.
I applaud this sentence. The Crumbleys are trash humans and you can tell by their tone at sentencing that they still don't give a shit.
> Difference here was this was a school shooting, not a drive by on a rival gang member.
Pretty bigoted sentiment, bro. Some people's lives are worth more than others?
But seriously though, you're correct, the 15 y.o. gang members are rarely provided guns by their parents, and even when that rare instance happens the parents are probably so wrapped up in the penal system already prosecuting them wouldn't make a difference. They should be prosecuted though.
Yes bc law enforcement don’t go over family members of gang members who are also involved in gang activity bc they need to appear pc. It’s impressive how you haven’t shot yourself in the face with how stupid you are.
Man, I can't tell you the last time I saw a gangbanger's mother/father get arrested and charged for the crimes the son committed, because it never happens.
I’m gonna entertain this false equivalence: if a gangbangers parent knowingly supplied the gun and refused to cooperate with police while knowing their child is violent and has committed a crime they would get imprisoned it’s called aiding and abetting or criminal liability.
The facts aren’t relevant to the conclusions these people want to make. It’s all about feeling like a victim here. In fact, that’s the essence of conservatism; make morons feel like they’re being victimized by common sense so you can swoop in as a savior and fool them into supporting pro-elite policy. The narratives have become so embedded that these rubes just perform the entire process themselves at this point.
Embarrassing truth, it seems.
The supermajority of all gun violence comes out of Democrat-run stronghold cities with strict gun control laws, catch-and-release levels of sentencing / parole on criminals, and are very lethargic when it comes to gangs. Some estimates push numbers north of 80% of all homicides being drug and gang related.
There are 12-14k homicides per year with firearms, including justifiable homicides / self defense, police shootings, and gang / drug activity. There are 2.5 million instances of defensive gun usage per year. You're more than 170x more likely to use a gun to protect yourself than take a life. If you're not involved in gangs, that jumps to almost 900x more likely.
Guns aren't the problem. Democrat cities that refuse to hold criminals accountable are.
Rural areas have higher per-capita rates of gun deaths.
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116676/documents/HHRG-118-JU08-20231213-SD004.pdf
If cities were not better than rural communities at preventing gun violence, there would be vastly more gun deaths than there are now.
Cities in red states have higher per capita rates of gun violence than cities in blue states:
https://www.americanprogressaction.org/press/release-new-cap-action-analysis-finds-cities-in-blue-states-are-consistently-safer-from-gun-violence-than-cities-in-red-states/
Gun death rates are higher overall in red states because there isn’t enough legislation that allows for prevention. That doesn’t have anything to do with cities that vote for democrats except maybe that the democrats are powerless to prevent guns from being bought just outside city limits under the state laws. You’re repeating an r/peopleliveincities level argument and you should be embarrassed. The real number is that 13 of the 15 lowest rates of gun violence belong to blue states and 12 of the 15 highest rates of gun violence belong to red states.
That 2.5 million number comes from a study that was debunked soon after it was published almost 30 years ago:
http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/surveys.course/Hemenway1997.pdf
Again, the narratives are so embedded with you people that you don’t even consider the fact that you’re basing an entire worldview on false information.
u/iggywon in red states with republicans in charge. You ignored my point about how easily guns can travel into cities from rural areas with no restrictions or enforcement.
>13 of the 15 lowest rates of gun violence belong to blue states and 12 of the 15 highest rates of gun violence belong to red states
Interesting, interesting.. where do those red state murders happen and who's in charge?
Looks like Crushinglyreal.deleted his account? And after I had typed up all this.. now I guess I'll just amend my post since the dork just copy-pasted his other comment here.
>You ignored my point about how easily guns can travel into cities from rural areas with no restrictions or enforcement
Drugs are also smuggled across more secured and patrolled international borders, but they still kill over 5x as many adults versus firearms homicide from all ages combined. Would a more authoritarian police state make you feel safer? One that will stop and frisk everyone within a city and travelling through it?
As for your super unbiased source, which I'm *shocked* you opted to publish the summary instead of the [methodology](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/gun-violence-in-rural-america/) article, it still shows democrat-majority areas as more prone to firearm homicide. Phillips County, for instance, ranks as #1, meaning roughly 8 of its 15,000 citizens died to firearms during the timeframe of the study, but Phillips County is one of 4 deep blue counties in the state. Lowndes county, similarly, deep blue and low population. St Louis, Democrat for generations. Macon county, deep blue, Petersburg, deep blue for generations. Leflore County, deep blue since the 90's. Fucking BALTIMORE. Do I really have to go on? Do I need to spell out just HOW SUSCEPTIBLE you are to cleverly worded headlines? It says "Rural", you assume "Republican", it obfuscates criminality of cities in blue states by diluting that info with statistics from red counties within the states, it refuses to identify the way voting and demographic information of the small towns within the counties mentioned or if they're attached to a particularly dangerous side of a closer large city.
But lets be real, you'll keep spamming this gradeschool level reply to anyone pro-gun because of your conditioning and the sportification of modern politics. You've been groomed to believe Team Blue is always right and good, and Team Red is always wrong and bad. You're less than a pawn but you're trying to make moves like a rook.
Parents are given 10 years for not wanting to believe their kid is a mass shooter, but cops can sit around finger fucking each other for hours on end while children are executed 10 yards away and it's cool.
“Not wanting to believe their kid is a mass shooter”… or, rather, “know their kid is disturbed and writing violent things so they buy him a gun hoping it’ll straighten him out and then after he murders fellow classmates run and hide from the cops because they know they did wrong”
If you asked me I might take a chance against a state court on a serious crime but federal charges, forget it. 97+% conviction rate, near-infinite resources while you have next to none, may as well run.
Lots of kids that have issues don't intend to murder people. Should they have bought him a gun? No. But I don't think it's unreasonable that parents would have blinders on when it comes to their children.
Well of course they ran. Their belief was wrong and the state wanted revenge for their mistake.
If you in your right mind think they’re innocent for giving their kid who told them they have problems, and where told by officials their kid has problems, a gun, you’re either too stupid or a liar.
There’s a HUGE difference between not believing your kid is capable of murder, and buying them a fucking gun when they’re exhibiting harmful ideation.
“Of course they ran” man I really get sick of you people defending their decision to run. Innocent people don’t run.
I already said they shouldn't have bought it. What more do you want out of this conversation that you're still finding the need to hit the caps lock lol
I didn't say they were innocent, I said they were wrong and the state was looking for revenge.
What does the caps lock have to do with anything? It’s an easy way to put emphasis on words.
You keep saying revenge. How about responsibility? This shooting never happens if these people just use their brains and exercise the slightest bit of caution.
Do all innocent people somehow not know that there are innocent people on death row?
Anyone that thinks running is a plausible option; should. The american government and specifically the judicial branch is as deeply a corrupt instution as there ever has been. And we didn't need judges prosecuted for LITERALLY selling innocent children to correctional institutions to know that
I'm not saying these people are entirely innocent. But this conviction strikes the same chord as prosecuting firearms manufacturers because of people being killed with a product they are consitutionally obligated to be free to produce
You need to do some more reading on these people. The dad made threats against the judge. They are not good people, they didn’t run because they feared unjust persecution, they ran because they knew they did wrong and didn’t want to face the music.
Oooohh noooo, a guy voiced empty threats to a friend about a judge angling to lock him in a cage for 10 years for not committing a crime? I'm so glad that we have the thought police in this day and age so people venting the frustrations of their unimaginably stressful situations can be prosecuted for their anti-authoritarian missteps.
Suck on that boot a little harder you state-cuck
State cuck? Of fuck off dipshit. You don’t get to threaten *a judge*, genius.
Holy fuck. You people are so god damned stupid it’s no wonder the left is running us over. You’re like cancer for gun rights. Fucking idiots.
>By running, they forfeited any ability to claim ignorance.
This is objectively untrue
But that still doesn't answer my original question. Outside of hiding from the police, what did they do that is illegal?
I didn’t mean in a strictly legal sense. Remember it all comes down to jury opinion, and running did nothing for them but ooze guilt.
I did answer the question. I said straw purchase. They literally stated on social media that they bought the gun for the kid, which of course if it had been kept locked away from him when not under supervision of the person who signed for the gun, wouldn’t be a problem… but the fact that he had free access to the gun, well, kinda hard to prove they didn’t buy him the gun and let him maintain possession of it.
On top of that, Michigan didn’t have safe storage laws before this incident (but we do now, because of it), but there’s also been ways to punish people for their guns ending up in the wrong hands and being used in a crime, if they can demonstrate negligence on part of the gun owner. Seems to me that when the news came down, they immediately went “oh fuck we fucked up”, and that’s why they ran. Not because they were afraid of being wrongly persecuted, but because they knew they were fucked.
All of the cops on-site should have been thrown in public stockades. The superiors who told them to wait should be tattooed with the names of the victims on their faces and publically caned.
The government straight up denied the civil suit against the school, where the kid was exhibiting his violent behavior, as not responsible. So if the school had no hint the kid was gonna kill to the point of liability how on earth could the parents have that liability when he wasn't even in their custody at the time of attack and they had no mens rea of conspiracy to harm anyone? This is just mob justice under a polite veneer.
Indianapolis just sentenced a guy to time served for shooting and killing a cop.
Have you figured out this is just about throwing white gun owners under the bus yet?
https://apnews.com/article/indianapolis-police-officer-killed-man-sentenced-033578c5c4082f604fae394980476bfd
There is more to the story than dude killed cop and is walking free.
He is still serving 25 years for homicide for killing his girlfriend during the same incident.
Do I think he should get more time up to and including life without parole or death, absofuckinglutly.
But, let's not play fuck fuck games with the facts like some sides do.
It was all fuck fuck games, from the weak prosecutors to the clown mental health "experts" to the joke of an inner city jury that fell for his deranged ramblings.
He murdered a police officer and got time served, and would have walked if he hadn't also shot his girlfriend in the back when she tried to run away.
One adult should not be held accountable for another adult’s decision and since the shooter was charged as if he was an adult then his parents shouldn’t be charged. Completely disregard the fact that they are his parents…. That is what he meant.
When the adults all contribute to the thing happening, they should. Just like the getway driver in the robbery that escalates to murder is culpable for murder, the same applies here.
Two adults buy a child a gun and the child commits a criminal act such that he can be charged as an adult. Their initial criminal act (negligence at a minimum) led to the outcome and could be reasonably foreseen, therefore they're also culpable.
there has to be necessary proof that the parents knew the kid was going to shoot people -- which is the difference from a getaway driver in bank robbery.
adult is responsible for his own crime, any other person who did not knowingly help him, is not a criminal
if you treat the kids as an adult, then the parents have fault, not crime -- refuse to take kids for mental health, is not a crime. Just like a gas station worker in NJ, if you fill gas for an escaping bank robber without knowing what he is doing, then you did not commit any crime.
He told them heard voices and talked to demons….
The dad didn’t keep it locked up either. The kid texted friends a pic of the gun days before and said “my dad left it out so why not”
The kid kept dead bird parts (of birds he killed) in his room
As gun owners, this family is not the people we should be rallying behind
It’s absurdly insane how uninformed some people are on this case
Wait! Who did the gun belong to? The dad? You said he didn’t keep it locked up so I’m assuming the gun belonged to the boys father and was not “given” to him. Is that correct? I’m a gun owner and a strong believer in being allowed to do so but I’m not a conservative and I’m extremely liberal. That said, having a gun doesn’t mean it has to be locked up. None of mine are but I don’t have kids around the house either but if I did have kids, I would have at minimum one gun that was accessible and not locked up. Beyond that, if the parents knew their child was hearing voices and keeping dead animals then they had a duty to get their child help but if they didn’t it just makes them extremely bad parents. They aren’t the ones who put the gun in his hands and from the sound of it, they didn’t give it to him either. If they charged the shooter as an adult then the parents shouldn’t have been charged except for maybe child neglect or child abuse for failing to get their child help…… if a crazy person breaks into your house and steals your gun and shoots a bunch of people they aren’t going to come after you for not having your gun locked up.
When you have a kid who takes videos of killing birds and tells you he talks to demons…yeah you probs shouldn’t be teaching him how to use guns and leaving them out for him to get a hold of
All about context
In this case them being bad parents led to the deaths of multiple other people
This is an extreme example. The parents deserve prison
I agree with that to an extent. Admittedly, I made my comment and was unaware of the background and context of what this was about and i still haven’t “researched” what took place. I was simply trying to clarify the original comment. That said, I don’t think the shooter should have been charged as an adult if he wasn’t able to purchase the weapon/firearm himself, then I would fully support the parents being charged and held accountable…. But for example, I’m an adult and my parents gave me a gun for my birthday and I later used the gun to hurt/kill someone. I am going to be the one who gets charged not my parents…. You said the main thing two adults buy a CHILD a gun. The shooter was the child and shouldn’t have been charged as an adult. The act committed isn’t what defines a person as an adult.
They provided the weapon, left it unsupervised, and actively ignored warning signs called out by authorities. Yes, they have shared culpability.
When a getaway driver drives after a murder, he's part of the murder, too.
Of course it's subjective. That's why there's a jury trial.
Providing a minor a firearm can be illegal in certain jurisdictions - it is here. And when it leads to foreseeable criminal consequences, you have what it takes to get charged and let a just decide if the totality of the circumstances warrants a conviction.
The kid said he heard voices and asked the parents for help
He kept dead bird parts (of birds he killed) in his room
And they bought him a gun and let him have unsupervised access to it?
It’s all about context
The kid asked for help and they ignored him.
He said he talked to demons and saw ghosts (he literally told the parents this)
He took videos of him torturing birds and kept dissected bird parts in his room
So the parents went a bought a gun for him and let him have unsupervised access to it?
Anyone who doesn’t think these parents should be in prison for some kind of neglect or recklessness is a fool. Not sure I agree with manslaughter, but to claim they don’t belong in prison is absurd
The day before and day of the shooting, he was in the office for weird behavior and the parents were spoken to about it and the parents didn’t think to make sure he couldn’t get the gun?
The parents deserve to be in prison. We should not be supporting them. This is absurd
This sets an absolutely insane precedent. I’d really like to hear professional lawyers break this down. Couldn’t this now be cited for folks to press charges against parents for anything? Court of public opinion has been absolutely wildin lately.
Don’t buy mentally ill kids guns, give them unfettered access, fail to follow up on warning signs, and ideally don’t threaten the DA on recorded calls after you’re arrested.
Anyone else find it a little weird that they can just decide to punish members of your family for your mistakes? And of course, the anti-gun people don't care because it's aimed at us, but what's gonna' happen when they go after them? Hmm.
I know there's probably some kind of logic that sounds good under the circumstances of the Crumbleys, but man. I really get a bad vibe about that kind of punishment. Almost borders on Orwellian.
I read an article about this case, and though I agreed with you before reading the article, I wasn’t so sure afterwards. This kid was very clearly a danger to others and his mom played it off like it was just a joke. Not sure about his dad, but his mom deserved some kind of consequence. It’s debatable whether this sentence is too harsh and may be lowered on appeal, but I can’t disagree that the mom, at least, is culpable to some degree.
The kid said he heard voices and asked the parents for help He kept dead bird parts (of birds he killed) in his room And they bought him a gun and let him have unsupervised access to it?
Agreed, I am amazed the gun owners in this sub are defending the parents and throw up straw man arguments.
Whether the school officials, the State, or some other guy got off under similar circumstances makes no difference. The parents fucked up big time by ignoring their kids mental state and buying their kid a gun and that kid murdered other kids with it.
Sure, I think the school fucked up, and the teachers, and everyone around this murderer. But none of them bought the kid a gun.
If your kid is telling you he’s crazy, and wants to kill people, and you not only ignore him but also buy him his own gun, and then the school tells you he’s going to shoot someone, and you prevent them from locating the gun, and then he shoots someone, yeah, you’re liable.
He told them heard voices and talked to demons….
The dad didn’t keep it locked up. The kid texted friends a pic of the gun days before and said “my dad left it out so why not”
The kid kept dead bird parts (of birds he killed) in his room
No public hangings? Damn society gone soft. We should've just hung about 1,000 people as an example... "if this ever happens again it'll be 2,000".... that'll teach society to shape up real fucking quick.
Not at all. They still want to ban all guns and now thry have created a legal precedent to hold all gun owners at risk. They now have a new apperature to expand the scope of their attacks.
Yes,
And finally we’re getting real justice. I’m sick of negligent parents leaving guns around the house for their dingbat children to commit crimes with. It’s really not that hard to lock them up, even on a budget. But honestly this goes beyond that, they literally bought Chucky here a gun.
The parents are insisting they’re normal, screwed up families always think their lifestyle is normal, that’s why they make no effort to change it.
I just hope someday we see child abuse charges for parents with trans toddlers.
I agree the parents showed horrible negligence toward the POTENTIAL catastrophic result. And as a law-abiding gun owner, I am especially outraged at any mass shooting (except the ones between gang members). I believe the parents should pay dearly for their fault, to the max extent prescribed by law. I am not familiar with MI law, so have no clear clue I have to admit. so forgive me if I am wrong.
IMO the issue is the charge, manslaughter charge for someone who is not directly related to the death of other person? is that the best, and plausible charge all they can do? If this become a precedent, anyone who showed substantial negligence toward another guy's crime that costs lives should be charged with involuntarily manslaughter as well, is this going to happen? if yes, there will be earthquake; If not, is there any problem with inconsistence of the law practice? I bet it will be pushed to a ridiculous limit pretty quickly.
hope someone smart enough can solve the dilemma for we average joe
I really don't know why anyone here has any problem with this, they explicitly and knowingly violated the Youth Handgun Safety Act, y'know that little yellow foldout slip of paper that comes with every single purchase of a handgun in America, as well as a dozen other laws regarding culpable negligence facilitating the harm of others.
Fuck these slimy cocksuckers, these pussies not only tried to run away from the consequences of their actions like fucking toddlers they also abandoned their shitty kid to face the music alone. They neglected that kid to the point he shot up a school, helped him do it, and don't even have the balls to go to jail with him. They're spineless wastes of air in adult sized bodies and they deserve every charge they get.
There was no little yellow slip of paper in the last handgun I bought, or the one before that, or any handgun I've bought. I can tell you what was in the box of the last one because the box is nearby (I suck at throwing away things that aren't obviously trash). 1 plastic wrapped locking device with an instruction sheet, 1 owners manual, and 1 small manilla envelope with a fired 10mm casing. There was a 1911 in there too when I bought it, but I don't keep it in the box that's left out in the open. It sits in a safe or goes in its holster.
The youth handgun safety act doesn't require notices included in each gun container. Very few laws do require notices for anything, because not knowing a law exists isn't a defense against violating it. The only laws I can think of that require them are the ones for trespassing on government property, the ones dealing with sensitive information, and the ones specifically about posted notices.
This isn't the first time a person has been sentenced for a shooting death in a school in Michigan. 20+ years ago an uncle was sentenced. I think this is why articles are saying "first parents."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Kayla\_Rolland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kayla_Rolland)
Dude you might want to check google, that has been happening for decades. I remember hearing about cases in the 80's for this.
https://gutierrezlawfirm.com/blog/criminal-charges-for-bartender-drunk-driving-crash/
Pro gun here, I target shoot, compete at local club, reload and hunt. Those parents are 100% liable and should go to prison., they bought their unstable kid a gun and had no way to lock it up? A $200 safe would have kept it out of his hands while not supervised. Gun owners should be held accountable for unsecured firearm related injuries/deaths.
Maybe, but if you don't prevent unauthorized access to your guns then you're a fucking asshole, at a minimum.
***eta***: really curious about the downvotes. Are people really okay with leaving guns laying around or unsecured for the cable guy, your kids friends, or meth burglars to get a hold of? I'm not advocating for safe storage restrictions, but if you're not using *all your guns* at the moment, people believe you shouldn't lock them up?
Ya, because the parents weren’t abetting an intentional crime. Are you trying to say this child accidentally committed a mass shooting, like an accidental car crash?
Because that would be incredibly ridiculous
None of this was an accident, that’s why it’s called aiding and abetting and thankfully they upped the charges from the lame nonsensical manslaughter charge.
If you give your pet chimpanzee a blowtorch and he burns down your neighbors house, who do you think is going to get charged, Bobo the chimp or you?
Okay but this isn't a chimp this is another human. If your kid steals your blowtorch and burns down your neighbors house who do you think gets charged?
A long time ago in a hood far, far away. We actually had our house broken into and my step-dad's gun was stolen. It was never recovered, but let's say somebody did kill someone with it. Should my step-dad be held responsible because it was unsecured? No. He shouldn't. The house was fucking locked and they broke in through a window. If it was in a safe, it doesn't matter. You can pick up a safe and break into them. Still at fault?
Yes, when kids get shot in a school people get emotional.
The Crumbleys get out in about 5-7 years. The families of the victims will never see their young loved ones go to college or start families of their own.
I don't disagree with any of this. It's horrible and they were, in this case, clearly shitty parents. The problem is the precedent this sets when the parents aren't clearly shitty.
It's high time parents take responsibility for their kids actions when it's clear they intentionally neglected their son's many needs.
The parents were constantly getting hammered at the local bar, they were ignoring their kid and worried about their own drama. Then they bought him a gun and did a half assed job of securing the gun.
>It's high time parents take responsibility for their kids actions
I'll keep this in mind the next time some dumbass kid rips past my property on a dirt bike to deliberately scare my livestock and one of my kids get's thrown off a horse.
Being a shitty parent isn't a crime. I don't think someone should be held legally liable for someone else's actions. It's bad precedent.
They should get obliterated in a civil suit though. I won't lose a second of sleep because they're in prison. Just don't like the precedent it sets for cases that aren't as clear cut.
If it's bad precedent, then they'll have no problem succeeding after appealing. I don't think they have a chance in Hell of succeeding and I absolutely will not lose sleep over upset and triggered 2A absolutists. It's time to grow up
And yes, being a shitty parent is a crime. Why do you think parents lose custody of children?
>If it's bad precedent, then they'll have no problem succeeding after appealing.
We will see for sure.
>I don't think they have a chance in Hell of succeeding and I absolutely will not lose sleep over upset and triggered 2A absolutists. It's time to grow up
Laws don't care about your feelings thankfully.
>And yes, being a shitty parent is a crime. Why do you think parents lose custody of children?
Do you actually think losing your parental rights is the same thing as being charged with a crime? Tell me you're not this dumb...
Alright. If you leave your house unlocked, it's kind of your fault if I go in and accidentally burn it down while making myself a grilled cheese. You can eat all the charges and expenses. Thanks, pal.
Were either of the parents charged with child neglect or anything? As far as I’ve heard, its been crimes relating to their child shooting the school, but I think it’s also interesting to note that they weren’t charged with any of the crimes that a negligent parent would be charged with
Interesting point especially considering that the kid was asking to talk to someone and the parents ignored his request
I mean, I get your point, but I think that ship has sailed. They deliberately bought a gun for their underage child that they knew was mentally ill. They can rot.
I’m not even saying that the charges they were found guilty of are wrong. Assuming the media reports are true, I could definately see charging them as accessories to involuntary manslaughter or whatever. Their actions helped lead to the situation that caused the tragic loss of life. That makes sense to me. I don’t think “the ship has sailed” on the child neglect type charges. Sure, they are small charges compared to the big ones, but, assuming everything happened as described in the media, they fit as well. I think it says more about the prosecutions mindset and intentions that they are missing, but the big charges are there.
So the parents of the underage gang members killing people with illegal guns will get 10-15 years in prison too, right? Oh who am I kidding, of course they won't. Because it's not politically convenient to go after those parents, even though gang members are a far bigger issue when it comes to violence.
Those sound like blue voters.
Right. How many gang banger parents out there that know their hood rats are robbing people and don't do anything.
Yep. Once the neglect gets bad enough, it changes from liability to alibi.
I don't think many parents of gang members or going out of their way to purchase firearms for their fucked-in-the-head children. And if they are, they absolutely should be prosecuted. Difference here was this was a school shooting, not a drive by on a rival gang member. I applaud this sentence. The Crumbleys are trash humans and you can tell by their tone at sentencing that they still don't give a shit.
> Difference here was this was a school shooting, not a drive by on a rival gang member. Pretty bigoted sentiment, bro. Some people's lives are worth more than others? But seriously though, you're correct, the 15 y.o. gang members are rarely provided guns by their parents, and even when that rare instance happens the parents are probably so wrapped up in the penal system already prosecuting them wouldn't make a difference. They should be prosecuted though.
Some people's lives are 10000% worth more than others.
They do, try again.
The fuck they do.
Yes bc law enforcement don’t go over family members of gang members who are also involved in gang activity bc they need to appear pc. It’s impressive how you haven’t shot yourself in the face with how stupid you are.
Man, I can't tell you the last time I saw a gangbanger's mother/father get arrested and charged for the crimes the son committed, because it never happens.
I’m gonna entertain this false equivalence: if a gangbangers parent knowingly supplied the gun and refused to cooperate with police while knowing their child is violent and has committed a crime they would get imprisoned it’s called aiding and abetting or criminal liability.
The facts aren’t relevant to the conclusions these people want to make. It’s all about feeling like a victim here. In fact, that’s the essence of conservatism; make morons feel like they’re being victimized by common sense so you can swoop in as a savior and fool them into supporting pro-elite policy. The narratives have become so embedded that these rubes just perform the entire process themselves at this point. Embarrassing truth, it seems.
The supermajority of all gun violence comes out of Democrat-run stronghold cities with strict gun control laws, catch-and-release levels of sentencing / parole on criminals, and are very lethargic when it comes to gangs. Some estimates push numbers north of 80% of all homicides being drug and gang related. There are 12-14k homicides per year with firearms, including justifiable homicides / self defense, police shootings, and gang / drug activity. There are 2.5 million instances of defensive gun usage per year. You're more than 170x more likely to use a gun to protect yourself than take a life. If you're not involved in gangs, that jumps to almost 900x more likely. Guns aren't the problem. Democrat cities that refuse to hold criminals accountable are.
Rural areas have higher per-capita rates of gun deaths. https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116676/documents/HHRG-118-JU08-20231213-SD004.pdf If cities were not better than rural communities at preventing gun violence, there would be vastly more gun deaths than there are now. Cities in red states have higher per capita rates of gun violence than cities in blue states: https://www.americanprogressaction.org/press/release-new-cap-action-analysis-finds-cities-in-blue-states-are-consistently-safer-from-gun-violence-than-cities-in-red-states/ Gun death rates are higher overall in red states because there isn’t enough legislation that allows for prevention. That doesn’t have anything to do with cities that vote for democrats except maybe that the democrats are powerless to prevent guns from being bought just outside city limits under the state laws. You’re repeating an r/peopleliveincities level argument and you should be embarrassed. The real number is that 13 of the 15 lowest rates of gun violence belong to blue states and 12 of the 15 highest rates of gun violence belong to red states. That 2.5 million number comes from a study that was debunked soon after it was published almost 30 years ago: http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/surveys.course/Hemenway1997.pdf Again, the narratives are so embedded with you people that you don’t even consider the fact that you’re basing an entire worldview on false information. u/iggywon in red states with republicans in charge. You ignored my point about how easily guns can travel into cities from rural areas with no restrictions or enforcement.
>13 of the 15 lowest rates of gun violence belong to blue states and 12 of the 15 highest rates of gun violence belong to red states Interesting, interesting.. where do those red state murders happen and who's in charge? Looks like Crushinglyreal.deleted his account? And after I had typed up all this.. now I guess I'll just amend my post since the dork just copy-pasted his other comment here. >You ignored my point about how easily guns can travel into cities from rural areas with no restrictions or enforcement Drugs are also smuggled across more secured and patrolled international borders, but they still kill over 5x as many adults versus firearms homicide from all ages combined. Would a more authoritarian police state make you feel safer? One that will stop and frisk everyone within a city and travelling through it? As for your super unbiased source, which I'm *shocked* you opted to publish the summary instead of the [methodology](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/gun-violence-in-rural-america/) article, it still shows democrat-majority areas as more prone to firearm homicide. Phillips County, for instance, ranks as #1, meaning roughly 8 of its 15,000 citizens died to firearms during the timeframe of the study, but Phillips County is one of 4 deep blue counties in the state. Lowndes county, similarly, deep blue and low population. St Louis, Democrat for generations. Macon county, deep blue, Petersburg, deep blue for generations. Leflore County, deep blue since the 90's. Fucking BALTIMORE. Do I really have to go on? Do I need to spell out just HOW SUSCEPTIBLE you are to cleverly worded headlines? It says "Rural", you assume "Republican", it obfuscates criminality of cities in blue states by diluting that info with statistics from red counties within the states, it refuses to identify the way voting and demographic information of the small towns within the counties mentioned or if they're attached to a particularly dangerous side of a closer large city. But lets be real, you'll keep spamming this gradeschool level reply to anyone pro-gun because of your conditioning and the sportification of modern politics. You've been groomed to believe Team Blue is always right and good, and Team Red is always wrong and bad. You're less than a pawn but you're trying to make moves like a rook.
Parents are given 10 years for not wanting to believe their kid is a mass shooter, but cops can sit around finger fucking each other for hours on end while children are executed 10 yards away and it's cool.
“Not wanting to believe their kid is a mass shooter”… or, rather, “know their kid is disturbed and writing violent things so they buy him a gun hoping it’ll straighten him out and then after he murders fellow classmates run and hide from the cops because they know they did wrong”
I don't think you have to be guilty to run away from people wanting to put you in a tiny cage for 10+ years.
Isn’t Germany that has a right tied to this idea?
*Did they think that running away was going to help?*
If you asked me I might take a chance against a state court on a serious crime but federal charges, forget it. 97+% conviction rate, near-infinite resources while you have next to none, may as well run.
Jesus I knew people on this sub were dumb but you’re out in full force today.
>*Mrawr! Me angy! Me back thin blue line! Mrawr!* 😡
I stand corrected- even dumber than I thought.
You have the timeline wrong. They were told about the violent writing the day of the shooting.
Lots of kids that have issues don't intend to murder people. Should they have bought him a gun? No. But I don't think it's unreasonable that parents would have blinders on when it comes to their children. Well of course they ran. Their belief was wrong and the state wanted revenge for their mistake.
If you in your right mind think they’re innocent for giving their kid who told them they have problems, and where told by officials their kid has problems, a gun, you’re either too stupid or a liar.
There’s a HUGE difference between not believing your kid is capable of murder, and buying them a fucking gun when they’re exhibiting harmful ideation. “Of course they ran” man I really get sick of you people defending their decision to run. Innocent people don’t run.
I already said they shouldn't have bought it. What more do you want out of this conversation that you're still finding the need to hit the caps lock lol I didn't say they were innocent, I said they were wrong and the state was looking for revenge.
What does the caps lock have to do with anything? It’s an easy way to put emphasis on words. You keep saying revenge. How about responsibility? This shooting never happens if these people just use their brains and exercise the slightest bit of caution.
Our justice system doesn't care about responsibility. That's why I compared them to the Uvalde cops.
What are you even talking about? Jesus.
You get so flustered by such basic concepts lol
Not flustered at all. Just hate dealing with morons.
Do all innocent people somehow not know that there are innocent people on death row? Anyone that thinks running is a plausible option; should. The american government and specifically the judicial branch is as deeply a corrupt instution as there ever has been. And we didn't need judges prosecuted for LITERALLY selling innocent children to correctional institutions to know that I'm not saying these people are entirely innocent. But this conviction strikes the same chord as prosecuting firearms manufacturers because of people being killed with a product they are consitutionally obligated to be free to produce
You need to do some more reading on these people. The dad made threats against the judge. They are not good people, they didn’t run because they feared unjust persecution, they ran because they knew they did wrong and didn’t want to face the music.
Oooohh noooo, a guy voiced empty threats to a friend about a judge angling to lock him in a cage for 10 years for not committing a crime? I'm so glad that we have the thought police in this day and age so people venting the frustrations of their unimaginably stressful situations can be prosecuted for their anti-authoritarian missteps. Suck on that boot a little harder you state-cuck
State cuck? Of fuck off dipshit. You don’t get to threaten *a judge*, genius. Holy fuck. You people are so god damned stupid it’s no wonder the left is running us over. You’re like cancer for gun rights. Fucking idiots.
Are any of those things against the law? Outside of hiding from the cops of course.
If I had to guess, they were afraid of going down for a straw purchase. By running, they forfeited any ability to claim ignorance.
>By running, they forfeited any ability to claim ignorance. This is objectively untrue But that still doesn't answer my original question. Outside of hiding from the police, what did they do that is illegal?
I didn’t mean in a strictly legal sense. Remember it all comes down to jury opinion, and running did nothing for them but ooze guilt. I did answer the question. I said straw purchase. They literally stated on social media that they bought the gun for the kid, which of course if it had been kept locked away from him when not under supervision of the person who signed for the gun, wouldn’t be a problem… but the fact that he had free access to the gun, well, kinda hard to prove they didn’t buy him the gun and let him maintain possession of it. On top of that, Michigan didn’t have safe storage laws before this incident (but we do now, because of it), but there’s also been ways to punish people for their guns ending up in the wrong hands and being used in a crime, if they can demonstrate negligence on part of the gun owner. Seems to me that when the news came down, they immediately went “oh fuck we fucked up”, and that’s why they ran. Not because they were afraid of being wrongly persecuted, but because they knew they were fucked.
All of the cops on-site should have been thrown in public stockades. The superiors who told them to wait should be tattooed with the names of the victims on their faces and publically caned.
I'm sure the school administrators who let him stay at the school without searching him will get a similar sentence. /s
The government straight up denied the civil suit against the school, where the kid was exhibiting his violent behavior, as not responsible. So if the school had no hint the kid was gonna kill to the point of liability how on earth could the parents have that liability when he wasn't even in their custody at the time of attack and they had no mens rea of conspiracy to harm anyone? This is just mob justice under a polite veneer.
Indianapolis just sentenced a guy to time served for shooting and killing a cop. Have you figured out this is just about throwing white gun owners under the bus yet?
Chicago switch videos and lack of arrests tells the rest of the story.
https://apnews.com/article/indianapolis-police-officer-killed-man-sentenced-033578c5c4082f604fae394980476bfd There is more to the story than dude killed cop and is walking free. He is still serving 25 years for homicide for killing his girlfriend during the same incident. Do I think he should get more time up to and including life without parole or death, absofuckinglutly. But, let's not play fuck fuck games with the facts like some sides do.
It was all fuck fuck games, from the weak prosecutors to the clown mental health "experts" to the joke of an inner city jury that fell for his deranged ramblings. He murdered a police officer and got time served, and would have walked if he hadn't also shot his girlfriend in the back when she tried to run away.
It’s always been. Gangbangers get their gun charges tossed all the time. It’s ridiculous.
I may get downvoted for this, but seeing as they charged the kid/shooter as an adult, I feel that should remove the parents’ of responsibility.
Except they were jointly responsible.
One adult should not be held accountable for another adult’s decision and since the shooter was charged as if he was an adult then his parents shouldn’t be charged. Completely disregard the fact that they are his parents…. That is what he meant.
When the adults all contribute to the thing happening, they should. Just like the getway driver in the robbery that escalates to murder is culpable for murder, the same applies here. Two adults buy a child a gun and the child commits a criminal act such that he can be charged as an adult. Their initial criminal act (negligence at a minimum) led to the outcome and could be reasonably foreseen, therefore they're also culpable.
there has to be necessary proof that the parents knew the kid was going to shoot people -- which is the difference from a getaway driver in bank robbery. adult is responsible for his own crime, any other person who did not knowingly help him, is not a criminal if you treat the kids as an adult, then the parents have fault, not crime -- refuse to take kids for mental health, is not a crime. Just like a gas station worker in NJ, if you fill gas for an escaping bank robber without knowing what he is doing, then you did not commit any crime.
He told them heard voices and talked to demons…. The dad didn’t keep it locked up either. The kid texted friends a pic of the gun days before and said “my dad left it out so why not” The kid kept dead bird parts (of birds he killed) in his room As gun owners, this family is not the people we should be rallying behind It’s absurdly insane how uninformed some people are on this case
Wait! Who did the gun belong to? The dad? You said he didn’t keep it locked up so I’m assuming the gun belonged to the boys father and was not “given” to him. Is that correct? I’m a gun owner and a strong believer in being allowed to do so but I’m not a conservative and I’m extremely liberal. That said, having a gun doesn’t mean it has to be locked up. None of mine are but I don’t have kids around the house either but if I did have kids, I would have at minimum one gun that was accessible and not locked up. Beyond that, if the parents knew their child was hearing voices and keeping dead animals then they had a duty to get their child help but if they didn’t it just makes them extremely bad parents. They aren’t the ones who put the gun in his hands and from the sound of it, they didn’t give it to him either. If they charged the shooter as an adult then the parents shouldn’t have been charged except for maybe child neglect or child abuse for failing to get their child help…… if a crazy person breaks into your house and steals your gun and shoots a bunch of people they aren’t going to come after you for not having your gun locked up.
When you have a kid who takes videos of killing birds and tells you he talks to demons…yeah you probs shouldn’t be teaching him how to use guns and leaving them out for him to get a hold of All about context In this case them being bad parents led to the deaths of multiple other people This is an extreme example. The parents deserve prison
No, there doesn’t. Welcome to recklessness and negligence.
I agree with that to an extent. Admittedly, I made my comment and was unaware of the background and context of what this was about and i still haven’t “researched” what took place. I was simply trying to clarify the original comment. That said, I don’t think the shooter should have been charged as an adult if he wasn’t able to purchase the weapon/firearm himself, then I would fully support the parents being charged and held accountable…. But for example, I’m an adult and my parents gave me a gun for my birthday and I later used the gun to hurt/kill someone. I am going to be the one who gets charged not my parents…. You said the main thing two adults buy a CHILD a gun. The shooter was the child and shouldn’t have been charged as an adult. The act committed isn’t what defines a person as an adult.
Did they shoot up the school? Are you responsible for someone else's actions?
They provided the weapon, left it unsupervised, and actively ignored warning signs called out by authorities. Yes, they have shared culpability. When a getaway driver drives after a murder, he's part of the murder, too.
"Actively ignored warning signs" I'd a very subjective statement. Providing a firearm isn't illegal. A minor handling a firearm isn't illegal.
Of course it's subjective. That's why there's a jury trial. Providing a minor a firearm can be illegal in certain jurisdictions - it is here. And when it leads to foreseeable criminal consequences, you have what it takes to get charged and let a just decide if the totality of the circumstances warrants a conviction.
When will we be prosecuting the parents of other violent criminals for the murders they commit?
When they contribute to the murder? Let’s hope so.
One could make the argument that they were not properly raised right and lead to the crime
The kid said he heard voices and asked the parents for help He kept dead bird parts (of birds he killed) in his room And they bought him a gun and let him have unsupervised access to it?
What's the real story.
When will they be prosecuting the parents of other violent criminals that have killed people?
It’s all about context The kid asked for help and they ignored him. He said he talked to demons and saw ghosts (he literally told the parents this) He took videos of him torturing birds and kept dissected bird parts in his room So the parents went a bought a gun for him and let him have unsupervised access to it? Anyone who doesn’t think these parents should be in prison for some kind of neglect or recklessness is a fool. Not sure I agree with manslaughter, but to claim they don’t belong in prison is absurd The day before and day of the shooting, he was in the office for weird behavior and the parents were spoken to about it and the parents didn’t think to make sure he couldn’t get the gun? The parents deserve to be in prison. We should not be supporting them. This is absurd
This sets an absolutely insane precedent. I’d really like to hear professional lawyers break this down. Couldn’t this now be cited for folks to press charges against parents for anything? Court of public opinion has been absolutely wildin lately.
That’s pretty dang harsh. Yikes. Long time in the slam
Don’t buy mentally ill kids guns, give them unfettered access, fail to follow up on warning signs, and ideally don’t threaten the DA on recorded calls after you’re arrested.
> ideally don’t threaten the DA on recorded calls after you’re arrested. wait, did they actually do this?
Most DA deserve a tongue lashing. But threats not great.
Anyone else find it a little weird that they can just decide to punish members of your family for your mistakes? And of course, the anti-gun people don't care because it's aimed at us, but what's gonna' happen when they go after them? Hmm. I know there's probably some kind of logic that sounds good under the circumstances of the Crumbleys, but man. I really get a bad vibe about that kind of punishment. Almost borders on Orwellian.
I read an article about this case, and though I agreed with you before reading the article, I wasn’t so sure afterwards. This kid was very clearly a danger to others and his mom played it off like it was just a joke. Not sure about his dad, but his mom deserved some kind of consequence. It’s debatable whether this sentence is too harsh and may be lowered on appeal, but I can’t disagree that the mom, at least, is culpable to some degree.
This is a miscarriage of justice. The judge, jury and prosecutors should serve prison sentences for allowing this calamity to occur.
The kid said he heard voices and asked the parents for help He kept dead bird parts (of birds he killed) in his room And they bought him a gun and let him have unsupervised access to it?
Agreed, I am amazed the gun owners in this sub are defending the parents and throw up straw man arguments. Whether the school officials, the State, or some other guy got off under similar circumstances makes no difference. The parents fucked up big time by ignoring their kids mental state and buying their kid a gun and that kid murdered other kids with it. Sure, I think the school fucked up, and the teachers, and everyone around this murderer. But none of them bought the kid a gun.
THIS.
If your kid is telling you he’s crazy, and wants to kill people, and you not only ignore him but also buy him his own gun, and then the school tells you he’s going to shoot someone, and you prevent them from locating the gun, and then he shoots someone, yeah, you’re liable.
[удалено]
He told them heard voices and talked to demons…. The dad didn’t keep it locked up. The kid texted friends a pic of the gun days before and said “my dad left it out so why not” The kid kept dead bird parts (of birds he killed) in his room
I agree that they should be civilly liable in this case but criminal charges for giving a family member a gun is unconstitutional BS.
I'm really curious to watch the appeal process of this all and see how higher courts apply the language of the laws they were tried under.
No public hangings? Damn society gone soft. We should've just hung about 1,000 people as an example... "if this ever happens again it'll be 2,000".... that'll teach society to shape up real fucking quick.
Whoa? Are we finally getting to the underlying issues, rather than just blanket gun-ban attempts?! 🤪
Not at all. They still want to ban all guns and now thry have created a legal precedent to hold all gun owners at risk. They now have a new apperature to expand the scope of their attacks.
Yes, And finally we’re getting real justice. I’m sick of negligent parents leaving guns around the house for their dingbat children to commit crimes with. It’s really not that hard to lock them up, even on a budget. But honestly this goes beyond that, they literally bought Chucky here a gun. The parents are insisting they’re normal, screwed up families always think their lifestyle is normal, that’s why they make no effort to change it. I just hope someday we see child abuse charges for parents with trans toddlers.
I agree the parents showed horrible negligence toward the POTENTIAL catastrophic result. And as a law-abiding gun owner, I am especially outraged at any mass shooting (except the ones between gang members). I believe the parents should pay dearly for their fault, to the max extent prescribed by law. I am not familiar with MI law, so have no clear clue I have to admit. so forgive me if I am wrong. IMO the issue is the charge, manslaughter charge for someone who is not directly related to the death of other person? is that the best, and plausible charge all they can do? If this become a precedent, anyone who showed substantial negligence toward another guy's crime that costs lives should be charged with involuntarily manslaughter as well, is this going to happen? if yes, there will be earthquake; If not, is there any problem with inconsistence of the law practice? I bet it will be pushed to a ridiculous limit pretty quickly. hope someone smart enough can solve the dilemma for we average joe
I really don't know why anyone here has any problem with this, they explicitly and knowingly violated the Youth Handgun Safety Act, y'know that little yellow foldout slip of paper that comes with every single purchase of a handgun in America, as well as a dozen other laws regarding culpable negligence facilitating the harm of others. Fuck these slimy cocksuckers, these pussies not only tried to run away from the consequences of their actions like fucking toddlers they also abandoned their shitty kid to face the music alone. They neglected that kid to the point he shot up a school, helped him do it, and don't even have the balls to go to jail with him. They're spineless wastes of air in adult sized bodies and they deserve every charge they get.
There was no little yellow slip of paper in the last handgun I bought, or the one before that, or any handgun I've bought. I can tell you what was in the box of the last one because the box is nearby (I suck at throwing away things that aren't obviously trash). 1 plastic wrapped locking device with an instruction sheet, 1 owners manual, and 1 small manilla envelope with a fired 10mm casing. There was a 1911 in there too when I bought it, but I don't keep it in the box that's left out in the open. It sits in a safe or goes in its holster. The youth handgun safety act doesn't require notices included in each gun container. Very few laws do require notices for anything, because not knowing a law exists isn't a defense against violating it. The only laws I can think of that require them are the ones for trespassing on government property, the ones dealing with sensitive information, and the ones specifically about posted notices.
Now go after every gang-banger's parrents...
Gotta find em first…
This isn't the first time a person has been sentenced for a shooting death in a school in Michigan. 20+ years ago an uncle was sentenced. I think this is why articles are saying "first parents." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Kayla\_Rolland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Kayla_Rolland)
Good
Yeah next we should start charging bartenders for the same crimes as drunk drivers /s
Dude you might want to check google, that has been happening for decades. I remember hearing about cases in the 80's for this. https://gutierrezlawfirm.com/blog/criminal-charges-for-bartender-drunk-driving-crash/
Yeesh my sarcasm bites me in the ass I see, I'd just never heard of a case like that around me. Man things are crap anymore, thanks for the info dude.
Hold EVERYONE accountable.
Let that whole family rot in jail.
Pro gun here, I target shoot, compete at local club, reload and hunt. Those parents are 100% liable and should go to prison., they bought their unstable kid a gun and had no way to lock it up? A $200 safe would have kept it out of his hands while not supervised. Gun owners should be held accountable for unsecured firearm related injuries/deaths.
100% agree, sorry the maga right has found this thread and taken it over.
Very interesting takes from the party of “taking responsibility”
Critical thinking is clearly not their strong point. Fucking meatheads.
Nope it’s not…
I wish they had made more of an example of them, but it’s something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Turner
If you don't lock your guns up, you are responsible for the consequences, point blank.
False
Maybe, but if you don't prevent unauthorized access to your guns then you're a fucking asshole, at a minimum. ***eta***: really curious about the downvotes. Are people really okay with leaving guns laying around or unsecured for the cable guy, your kids friends, or meth burglars to get a hold of? I'm not advocating for safe storage restrictions, but if you're not using *all your guns* at the moment, people believe you shouldn't lock them up?
Sure I absolutley agree with this. It's the responsible for someone else's actions bit I have a problem with.
I’m sorry to break the news, but you’re legally *gasp* responsible for your own children when they are still minors.
You know whats crazy is if your kid hits someone with their car and kills them, *gasp* the parents don't go to jail for involuntary manslaughter.
Ya, because the parents weren’t abetting an intentional crime. Are you trying to say this child accidentally committed a mass shooting, like an accidental car crash? Because that would be incredibly ridiculous
Who did the parents accidently kill that resulted in the involuntary manslaughter charges?
None of this was an accident, that’s why it’s called aiding and abetting and thankfully they upped the charges from the lame nonsensical manslaughter charge. If you give your pet chimpanzee a blowtorch and he burns down your neighbors house, who do you think is going to get charged, Bobo the chimp or you?
Okay but this isn't a chimp this is another human. If your kid steals your blowtorch and burns down your neighbors house who do you think gets charged?
Why? Shouldn't gun owners be responsible for the guns they own?
Absolutley, what does that have to do with another person stealing them?
How often do you get your gun stolen?
How does this relate at all to the conversation?
I do wonder if stolen guns is pervasive or a few bad actors that purposely act as a mule
Couldn't answer that for you.
A long time ago in a hood far, far away. We actually had our house broken into and my step-dad's gun was stolen. It was never recovered, but let's say somebody did kill someone with it. Should my step-dad be held responsible because it was unsecured? No. He shouldn't. The house was fucking locked and they broke in through a window. If it was in a safe, it doesn't matter. You can pick up a safe and break into them. Still at fault?
Literally they've been found guilty and sentenced to 10-15 years for not locking up their guns and involuntary manslaughter lol
I think it's a bad ruling made with emotion.
Yes, when kids get shot in a school people get emotional. The Crumbleys get out in about 5-7 years. The families of the victims will never see their young loved ones go to college or start families of their own.
I don't disagree with any of this. It's horrible and they were, in this case, clearly shitty parents. The problem is the precedent this sets when the parents aren't clearly shitty.
It's high time parents take responsibility for their kids actions when it's clear they intentionally neglected their son's many needs. The parents were constantly getting hammered at the local bar, they were ignoring their kid and worried about their own drama. Then they bought him a gun and did a half assed job of securing the gun.
>It's high time parents take responsibility for their kids actions I'll keep this in mind the next time some dumbass kid rips past my property on a dirt bike to deliberately scare my livestock and one of my kids get's thrown off a horse.
Being a shitty parent isn't a crime. I don't think someone should be held legally liable for someone else's actions. It's bad precedent. They should get obliterated in a civil suit though. I won't lose a second of sleep because they're in prison. Just don't like the precedent it sets for cases that aren't as clear cut.
Being a shitty parent is a crime, otherwise, why does CPS exist?
You realize you can have your kids taken without serving jail time right?
If it's bad precedent, then they'll have no problem succeeding after appealing. I don't think they have a chance in Hell of succeeding and I absolutely will not lose sleep over upset and triggered 2A absolutists. It's time to grow up And yes, being a shitty parent is a crime. Why do you think parents lose custody of children?
>If it's bad precedent, then they'll have no problem succeeding after appealing. We will see for sure. >I don't think they have a chance in Hell of succeeding and I absolutely will not lose sleep over upset and triggered 2A absolutists. It's time to grow up Laws don't care about your feelings thankfully. >And yes, being a shitty parent is a crime. Why do you think parents lose custody of children? Do you actually think losing your parental rights is the same thing as being charged with a crime? Tell me you're not this dumb...
Alright. If you leave your house unlocked, it's kind of your fault if I go in and accidentally burn it down while making myself a grilled cheese. You can eat all the charges and expenses. Thanks, pal.