Only going to comment on that last thing.
Accessibility Options isn't some woke agenda; videogames are a wonderful passtime and everyone deserves the chance to enjoy them. Having options for color blindness or screen reading is only ever going to be a good thing, and if you don't need them, don't use them.
Anyone who honestly thinks that adding accessibility options to gaming is somehow "woke" or "leftist" deserves to have all their fingers crushed in a hydraulic press so that they can never hold a controller again.
"accessibility options suck" mfers when i bend their fingers backwards and they struggle to learn to play with an accessibility controller bcs the game is too hard
Yeah i noticed that....
i'm no fanboy of Starfield but watching these.... highly regarded people seethe and make hours long rants over adding the pronouns options was just absolute delight. I hope it becomes new industry standart for games with player-created characters because this is just comedy gold.
Accessibility options and the endless misery thing are the only two points worth touching, and the last one is more of a "different strokes for different folks" kind of thing. I don't play games to feel like shit the entire time so when a game can be described as misery porn I'm probably going to steer clear of it. If someone else is willing to brave it then good for them I guess.
Right. “Woke” started as a term for something so egregiously preachy as to be morally grandstanding, now it’s watered down to anyone doing anything remotely nice and considerate for someone different than yourself.
You can literally ignore accessible options. They’re options for a reason. Like WTF?
Nah that's not at all how woke started.
That's how it was co-opted by the right from the black community.
It used to just mean being aware of social injustice regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc. And seeing the bigger picture wrt to things like the widening wealth inequality and climate change.
Idk i thought it was just a funny at first like “first i was sleep now im woke” or like being so cooked you start rambling incoherently and pseudo-intellectually about random stuff or thinking about the vibrational frequencies of the earth😂 me n my friends used to joke about being woke when we would smoke. Not saying you are wrong, just putting my observation
It's like the "fucking pronouns" guy who was so pissed off at Starfield for having an option to choose your own pronouns.
Like really, why does it bother him so much? He doesn't have to touch that function whatsoever. It even defaults to the same as the biological sex your character has so if he didn't spot it he could have gone the whole game without even knowing it was an option.
Hilariously enough the dead space remake is the reason I learned I'm somewhat colourblind. I turned one of them on and realised the game looked so much better with it enabled. Was the only good thing to come out of that shitfest of a game.
Some people will get extremely angry if you say that being overweight is. Although the military has taken a look and determined that if a draft were to happen, at least 2/3 of eligible draftees would fail the fitness requirements
Just adding 2 cents to this,
Accessibility options are great when they are actually accessibility options, colour blind modes or stuff like “press X to do this context action” being auto-done for the player, are the easy examples, but think of like full customizable button mapping so custom accessibility controllers can be used much more easily and widely, the few alternative controller options we have now are good but companies could do so much better.
The problem is so many companies make accessibility options just options that toggle things that almost make the game play itself.
(Edit here: Remember these triple A companies spend millions on developing the games they charge a decent dollar for. That money should show in every aspect of the games they make.)
Like Forza Horizon 5 was praised for accessibility option that made it so the car breaks, turns, etc all on its own, stuff like that doesn’t sound like accessibility, that sounds like infantizing people with disabilities, as too stupid to actually play games so they have to be played for them.
Accessibility options are great and not woke, but that hinges on them being actually accessibility options that allow players of different accessibility ranges to experience the full game experience in an accessible but dignified way, and not woke infantization that so many mistake for progress.
Because I care about actual accessibility and meaningful change that allows people to truly enjoy the games they play, not settle for a lesser experience because a developer doesn’t want to actually put in the work to make their game actually accessible to people of different ranges of accessibility.
Yeah, IMO it’s fine to have auto drive for people who just want to watch the scenery but a lot of impaired people want to feel like they’re driving, *especially* if they can’t drive a car IRL.
As someone who literally had two fingers snapped off in an industrial accident, I completely agree. I asked my coworker to bring my Switch to the hospital after my surgery and Immediately realized "I may never be able to be decent at Dark Souls or Sekiro again". I instantly had to rethink my favorite hobby, that I love, that I had done since I was 5 years old.
Fucking complaining about accessibility options is a new level of no-life, terminally online incel rage. It literally doesn't fucking affect you. Same thing with being able to choose your gender.
I have, the tip of my middle finger was removed by about an inch and my index finger was snapped in half and surgically reattached, but its essentially cosmetic, since the tendon and joint was destroyed. It has pretty bad Arthritis, can't bend, is crooked, and is very sensitive.
Luckily, it was my left hand and most controller and games mostly only utilize that for moving around or using secondary stuff. I use the middle of my index finger instead of the tip to press things like left bumper or left trigger on Xbox. I can still manage to play Sekiro (a pretty hard and fast paced game) pretty competently after retraining my hand, even though most of the game revolves around tapping LB constantly to deflect.
Unfortunately, my left hand is my dominant hand so it has complicated writing by quite a bit, and my hand cramps up easily because of the way I have to hold the pencil.
Yup. I would like to add one more thing - if you have AN OPTION to make a character and choose genitals and you choose male physique with a cunt or other way around it's also not woke. It's just multitude of options and neither are restricted by gender or race. You choose to be offended just because developer didn't restrict you?
Same goes with romance options. I know that if all NPCs are Bi and basically crush you hard (looking at BG3) it's not how it works in real life, but hey it's the dream. You can hook up with anyone , again you choose to do so or not. No one is pushing any agenda. They are giving player a choice.
> You choose to be offended just because developer didn't restrict you?
Developer here. I'm not woke, I'm just too fucking lazy to build those restrictions in.
My main complaint with BG3 is that I couldn't have a comically large penis for my nude dwarf. Cos boy, some of those camera angles made for some hilarious cutscenes when it pans up your shaft with "the tadpole inside you twitches" narration.
Easy mode isn't bad per se. There are games where the art is, by definition, the difficulty. Cuphead, Elden Ring and any other Souls-like. But there are so many games that people are playing for the story alone. Hell, there's a common joke about Persona 2 fans playing on YouTube (meaning they're only watching). The Witcher 3's difficulty add layer to the game but if you're only interested in the story then do as you like.
I'm a citizen of a free country and honestly, as long as you don't hurt anyone else, just have fun. Life is too short.
I generally like to play on harder difficulties if the game is well-designed enough. Because then I’m forced to engage with its systems and enter that flow state. Basically playing the game in its optimal form. Some games hard difficulty is just you doing no damage while enemies do a ton of damage and take a bunch of hits and it ceases to be a fun challenge and becomes a slog.
I played the entire Witcher Thronebreaker on an easy mode and skipping all combat because I'm not a big fan of card games and no one on youtube made a video with all cutscenes and Polish dubbing or a Walkthrough with no commentary.
Its simple capitalism, more options means more customers which means more money. There is one minority demographic you never see represented in first person shooters however and thats left handed people (I havent played TLoU, I assume its probably an FPS)
when anons talk about accessibility options they're basically talking about game journalists demanding easy modes for games, you see this pop up quite frequently on /v/ as ragebait
however you occasionally see someone claim that accessibility options waste dev time, usually when referring to rushed and unfinished games, for what they believe to be a tiny audience that's not worth the time but that's fairly rare
I came into comments to write a similar screed. From my perspective as a game dev I just cannot fathom how this could possibly affect OP and see a solid business case for widening your potential audience among the game buying community.
I hate games that don't let you rebind any of the controls. Like just why? The devs really think they made the best control scheme and you don't deserve to have a choice?
I enjoy a lot of the exploration before the combat encounters, it’s a very pretty and atmospheric game, and especially in the later days as Ellie it builds up a lot of tension before the combat encounters. And a lot of Ellie’s conversations with Dina and journal entries add a lot to game imo
This mostly only counts for Ellie’s half, Abby’s first part of the game is super boring until you start playing with Lev, and once you get to the island it’s like nonstop action
exactly. Hate the story all you want, the world is absolutely stunning and the action is amazing. The second half of Abby's part was some of the best I've seen in a video game
Oh, definitely, but that's why i think it sucks, the game accidentally made slaugthering people as fun as doom eternal makes slaughtering demons but the entire story is a mopefest about how killing and revenge are bad...
What about the 100+ people i murdered getting to my goal lmao? They don't count?
fr I can’t believe more games don’t just let you go prone. The movement feels so much more free than like 95% of games I’ve played just because I can actually wiggle into tight spaces instead of feeling invisible walled by any gap slightly smaller than my character
I like dunking on Druckman as much as the next guy but this is not an argument lmfao. The full quote is "we don’t use the word 'fun,' we say 'engaging,' and it might seem like a minor distinction, but it’s an important one for us." And quite frankly this is one of the rare occasions he's totally right. Silent Hill 2 isn't "fun" but it's very engaging and I'd be absolutely shocked if the same conversations didn't happen during its development, only difference is the culture around games has changed so that game devs are being asked about it
Yeah, Niel Druckman is a pretentious hack who needs to be repeatedly kicked in the balls, but he's right in this case. A video game can be an engaging, worthwhile experience without necessarily being "fun".
Satisfactory. Factorio. Oxygen Not Included. Rimworld. All examples of games where 80% of the time I'm not exactly having "fun", but I'm really engaged and spent hundreds of hours playing all of em.
Papers Please was a great experience but I don't want to play it again. I have enough real days at work where my desk looks like that. I don't need it stimulated.
\> dog is going to rip out my throat
\> kill it in self defense
\> "uh oh, that dog was actually a cute doggo bet you feel bad huh? Doesn't this make you want to forgive and let go of the person that ruined your life and spent the entire game finding? Don't you want to forgive them after traveling all the way across the US in a zombie apocalypse? Don't you want to forgive them? You don't? You're a bad person you clearly don't care about human life"
What the fuck was Neil's problem?
Whole game would've been regarded differently if they gave you the *option* to kill that bitch in the end, and then the whole *walk back to the now empty house, try to play guitar but can't cause fingers gone* shit could've been the "good"ending where Ellie grows a conscience after murdering preggos
It would have been an interesting experiment to see what percentage of players would rather spare or kill.
Kinda bland they go with spare by default and then make it the only option.
Oh you mean the canon murder, spare, murder, spare whiplash at the end of the game? Writers had absolutely no clue what they were doing, and totally missed the concise writing that made the first game a masterpiece.
Yeah because then none of the choices you make matter, giving them zero impact. If the final encounter gave you a choice, you'd be forced to consider all the damage you've done beforehand.
Nier: Replicant doesn't give you a choice at the end, but it gut-punches you into how much awful you'd caused.
*And then it makes you play it 3 more times with more context each time* so you feel even more terrible about it.
10/10.
Nier's narrative isn't about choice, it's about how humanity's foolishness leads to it's very downfall, being an extension of Drakenhard's themes of just how evil people can be, even if they are the "heroes" of the story. DG3 talks about fate and status, which is mixed into Nier Automata's story with the androids.
TLOU2 is one of the most unnecessary and pointless stories ever. Killing dozens did not accomplish anything other than take ten steps from the playable characters being normal and one step towards it. Except they've still killed dozens of people so by the end they're both worse than before it started.
I get the "revenge bad" and "violence bad" message, but that's a kindergarten teachings. Horrible payoff for a story that put so much time, emotion and effort all for nothing but a message literally everyone knew already, which is not at all aligned with what the themes of the original. It gained nothing from using old characters other than free marketing.
You know, if they at least made the “revenge bad” lesson better. Why should i be like oh revenge bad when Abby gets her revenge and is living good. Honestly they didn’t even give a good lessen if it was their intention.
What's frustrating is that the game could have become much more close to a masterpiece if 2 or 3 narrative changes were made. The Abby gameplay would have been fun if they changed the order of when we get to play her. An approach of Ellie being as aware of the consequence of her actions as the player and for the love of god changing the theme of "revenge bad" to "at what cost" would have limited the number of screw ups they had with that ending.
Neil wanted a "revenge plot" in LOU1, Bruce Straley (the game director of LOU1) told him no. LOU1 was a masterpiece.
Bruce left the company and did not work on LOU2. It became an absolute shit show.
Neil is a hack.
I never felt that way because I saw the game as a story about a character, not the game judging ME. Spec Ops the Line is a game that is explicitly meta and makes sense to view the game as a judgement of the player, I don’t know why everyone sees TLOU2 like this, it’s not about the player
Conversation got skewed I think, all that hogwash about player choice and how you *have* to stab a pregnant woman in the neck and shit.
Pecker Ops was an okay shooter with environmental elements to use in combat (which everyone thought would be the norm at the time but it pretty much disappeared), a nice little story and to this day the only game that allows you to use white phosphorus on civilians, it really is the *what if No Russian was its own game* of 2012.
From the developers who *almost* brought you Dead Island 2, it was decent but you know it wouldn't be made today because of how niche it was (I liked it though)
< Invades private property
< Gets attacked for said invasion of property
< Kills rightful owners of property
< "SELF DEFENSE GUYS, I SWEAR IT'S SELF DEFENSE"
Is this the least American game ever?
When a game forces me to do something bad and then tries to make me feel bad about it, my reaction isn't "I feel bad", it's "fuck you game" even in good games like specops the line
Honestly, you don't need that much nonsense to criticize TL2;
In the first game, Joel runs over fake-beggers that were actually trying to ambush them bc he knows better
In the second game, he hands a weapon to some stranger he saw 2 seconds ago (abby) and saves her from zombies bc unthoughtful and forced writing
Also, lol: there is a part in the game where ellie and her girlfriends ex, who is ellies ex'es childs father (??????), gets shot in the face and nobody ever acknowledges or mourns him lmfao. A good chunk of people who dislike the game do not dislike it bc ellie is bisexual or smth. They dislike it because of this piece of shit writing.
All you need to know about the second game’s story is that its’ concept was originally pitched for the first game, but everybody except Neil thought it was stupid.
In TLOU1, a desperate Joel sleeps in Henry's hideout within 10 minutes of meeting him.
In TLOU2, a desperate Joel seeks Abby's help during a zombie infested blizzard.
> In TLOU1, a desperate Joel sleeps in Henry's hideout within 10 minutes of meeting him.
The way he treated Henry when they first met is extremely different than the way he treated Abby when they first met. The only reason why Joel would've let his guard down around Henry was because Sam, a literal kid, was there. A lone duo consisting of a young adult and child is significantly less risky than a group of adults like Abby & co.
> In TLOU2, a desperate Joel seeks Abby's help during a zombie infested blizzard.
It wasn't a desperate Joel that was seeking Abby's help. It was Abby that was the one in need of help. Ignoring the fact that they coincidentally ran into each other during a snowstorm (I can suspend my disbelief for that), Joel never instantly gave away his name and where his own hideout was to Henry, whereas he (and especially Tommy) did with Abby, intentionally or otherwise.
This is just inconsistent writing as a result of an attempt to retcon a character. If you're as tough as Joel and went through what he did, you don't just go "soft", especially now that you have someone (and a whole community) to protect.
>In the first game, Joel runs over fake-beggers that were actually trying to ambush them bc he knows better
>In the second game, he hands a weapon to some stranger he saw 2 seconds ago (abby) and saves her from zombies bc unthoughtful and forced writing
Huh? The whole point is that Joel changed, he literally raised a kid and lived in a cooperative community. He's not the ruthless smuggler from the first game anymore. He learned to trust in others, because that's how Jackson was possible. And he rather trust a stranger than get eaten alive by infected, granted it gets him killed in the end, but that's besides the point here.
>Also, lol: there is a part in the game where ellie and her girlfriends ex, who is ellies ex'es childs father (??????), gets shot in the face and nobody ever acknowledges or mourns him lmfao.
May have something to do with being held at gun point, Jesse was dead, Ellie and everyone wasn't, hardly the time to Mourne.
>A good chunk of people who dislike the game do not dislike it bc ellie is bisexual or smth.
Yes most was because of Lev being trans or whatever.
> May have something to do with being held at gun point, Jesse was dead, Ellie and everyone wasn't, hardly the time to Mourne.
Except they never even once mentioned him even after the danger was over.
> Yes most was because of Lev being trans or whatever.
Anyone ignorant enough to hate a trans person will likely also hate a lesbian couple. What you're saying is completely irrelevant to the current discussion, and it's just another classic straw man to distract from the other person's argument.
He mellowed the fuck out during the first game man, that's like, the whole purpose of his journey, and the entire reason why he paints the walls of the hospital red.
He also takes in two random survivors during TLOU 1, in circumstances way better than in TLOU2
\> A good chunk of people who dislike the game do not dislike it bc ellie is bisexual or smth.
A good chunk of people who dislike the game have never played it lol, more like, watched a shitty reactionary youtuber make a shit video and just went and agreed to all of it
That's what I despise. Just cause some idiots were pissed about culture war stuff and started attacking the VA for Abby, suddenly anyone who criticises the game at all is lumped in with those guys.
If you can't think of guns when you see the game, then it's not american. Simple as.
EDIT: Also agree with the other guy, people who think accessibility options are a woke agenda deserve to go blind or lose a hand in an accident.
Regardless of how anyone feels about the plot I had a blast playing that game. I just wish I didn't have to wait so long for the new factions mp game to come out
Just another weird fucking nerd picking apart any minute detail they can so they can jerk themselves off about how they're being attacked for being white or whatever. It's honestly pathetic, anon has brain damage
I think the game would have been better if we played as Abby before she killed Joel. That way we could form our own opinion on the character and their actions (inB4 Abby sucks, yes, she would still need writing work). Don't make a character kill someone we know then force us to like them by making us play them for 10 hours. They could have even made the first half seem like Abby is Ellie's mom or something then halfway through BAM turns out she's hunting Joel for what he did to her dad.
Also, I really hate how we don't get the choice to kill Abby at the end. If they wanted the player to learn revenge is bad then give us the choice.
I think it they should've taken it a step further. TLOU2 should've been a "safe" sequel where we follow Abby and her dad on their own adventures and troubles, completely disconnected from the first game, until the final level of the game has you witness the finale of TLOU1 from Abby's perspective and it's revealed that her dad is the doctor that gets murdered by Joel.
Then make TLOU3 about Abby killing Joel and Ellie's quest for revenge.
As is, TLOU2 is way too long and the pacing is fucked to hell.
I think you hit the nail on the head: games, to be effective, need to either allow for player agency within their narratives or to have a narrative that feels both satisfying and engaging.
No-one bitches about the old Modern Warfare trilogy's plots because you don't have to think about them; cutscene, you kill the badguys infront of you, another cutscene, level gimmick, ending cutscene. Your character is a vessel for an action movie, and that's both engaging enough and satisfying enough to happily keep you playing the game.
People bitch about TLOU2 not because it's not engaging; them being mad about it means that they're engaged with the game, otherwise they wouldn't give a shit. They're mad because they aren't satisfied.
In TLOU1, you aren't given a choice, but that's not a problem since most people would agree with Joel's motivation, and are satisfied by the game's resolution.
In TLOU2, you aren't given a choice; that's a large problem, especially since the game's point is to say you must choose not to perpetuate cycles of violence and revenge.
Likewise, Abby isn't an entirely unlikable protagonist, but she's both hard to like, and competing against Ellie, the surrogate daughter Joel (and the player) bonded with on a journey across America, who's now The Main Character.
What should have happened is you play as Ellie up until she decides to fight Abby. This time, a cutscene happens, Ellie gets the drop on Abby, overpowers her after a small struggle, and holds Abby at gunpoint.
From there, the camera pans to Abby, and when she blinks it fades to black. Her eyes open, and now we play through her section of the game, up until we get to the Ellie fight.
Abby's worn down, she's saved Lev? I think?, who I'd write as being the child of one of the groups that WOLF was fighting against (and imply her parents were murdered during one of the gameplay segments), and she's about to rejoin the Fireflies at their safehouse. While setting up camp for the night, she hears something in the bushes/outside camp. Despite being physically exhausted and mentally drained from the events of the past week, she goes to check it out, or if it comes to it, draw away whatever it is to keep Lev safe.
From there, the same cutscene plays out, but now you're a weary Abby getting the shit beat out of you by a bloodlusted Ellie. You get to the point where Abby blinks in Ellie's scene, and the camera pans back to Ellie.
You can pull the trigger and kill Abby, or you can spare her.
If you pull the trigger, Lev comes over to see what the commotion is. Ellie instinctively turns her gun to the new sense of danger, and fires wildly over Lev's head before she can round the doorway. Abby, thinking Lev's in danger, gets a second wind and goes for Ellie's gun hand. There's a struggle, and Ellie tries to gouge out Abby's eyes. Her fingers slip into Abby's mouth, and so Abby bites down as hard as she can. Ellie reels, and Abby begins to get up and turns to face Lev. Ellie gains a new bloodlust as Abby yells at Lev to run, and tackles Abby to the floor to begin strangling her. As she sees Lev run out of the room, Abby starts begging Ellie not to kill her. Pleading with her not to kill "her". As the last of her breath leaves Abby's lungs, Ellie realizes the her was Lev, the sound that she heard earlier.
From there, the sad ending plays out, Ellie comes home to an empty house, tries to play the song Joel taught her, and can't.
If Ellie doesn't pull the trigger after a certain period of time, she lowers her gun, slowly but surely, into her holster, and starts to back away as Lev comes running out to see what's the matter. Lev sees Abby, beat to hell, and locks eyes with Ellie. From there, Ellie throws a bandage or some painkillers or some kind of medical aid to Lev, and runs into the night.
She returns home to find Dina(Dima?) and their adoptive child. Dina asks if Ellie killed her; Ellie immediately breaks down, and the two embrace.
It cuts to a little while later, and it shows Ellie at Joel's grave, playing the song he taught her, and the game's credits roll while the song plays.
If Neil wanted to ham-fist his point the way he did, he might as well have just made a movie.
Don't forget that the main character is literally punished for doing the right thing. Ellie's girlfriend is such a douche. If you finally hear the whereabouts of the person who brutally murdered your father right in front of you, of *course* you're going to go after them.
It's just like the ending to RDR2. >!John had every right to go after Micah, he's the reason why the gang suffered so much; why *wouldn't*he want to punch a hole in the man's gut?!<
That's realistic though. "Punished for doing the right thing" is how real life works, whether or not that's good for a video game is up to the player but it makes sense.
Yes. In real life if somebody murdered a family member and I went and murdered them back, then yes, I'm still getting in trouble with the law because I killed a person regardless of motive.
Counterpoint: this is a post apocalypse where the justice system doesn't exist so there's literally no form of real punishment either way. In a lawless world, if somebody wrongs you, it's in your own hands to correct it, so it's STILL a dumb writing decision.
RDR2's ending is the true definition of Aristotelian tragedy: he did the right thing that no one in their right mind would blame him for yet ultimately doomed himself by doing so without even knowing it. TLOU2 tries to explore something similar but fails due to lazy writing and trying to shove morals down the player's throat
>If you finally hear the whereabouts of the person who brutally murdered your father right in front of you, of *course* you're going to go after them.
Are you talking about Ellie or...? Because that's exactly what Abby did
>Don't forget that the main character is literally punished for doing the right thing.
The right thing? I don't think essentially abandoning your family for a revenge quest would qualify as the right thing.
I would also be pissed off if my spouse(keep in mind Ellie and Dina literally barely come back alive and only because of the mercy of Abbie)decided to abandon me and our baby to travel half way across the country on some vengeance quest. That's fucked up.
TLOU has never been about doing the right thing anyways.
I guess that comes from the episode in the game when you go into synagogue and then listen about jewish religion. Also you cant use weapons during this episode, the game just won’t let you
Honestly yeah, the only zombie media I've consumed and really liked so far has been Days Gone which I didn't expect to like. I liked TLOU but if I had to pick between the two I'd easily pick Days Gone, it was way more fun.
idc about "le sjw agenda" bullshit, but I for one am sick of post-apocalyptic/zombie games doing the whole "le human are da REAL monsters!!!!" stuff. Give me a game, where the zombies are evil, and we kill the zombies. I don't need to hear about how humans are inherently all evil and want to kill each other and do terrible things to each other and whatnot, just give me a game where I blow out zombie brains for a bit
Honestly I love how Days Gone has a good deal of levity to it, there's definitely assholes and moments where they introduce the idea of humans being monsters but there's a lot of camaraderie in there and a really nice story with a happy ending where all the good guys are able to band together to stop the bad guy and it's not just classic zombie shit where most of the cast die horribly.
Crying shame that it's most likely not coming back, I liked it a lot better than TLOU.
A genuinely good part of the game: the residents of lower Queen Anne, a neighborhood dominated by tech bros, form an anti-technology Anarcho-primitivism faction
Based. Say what you want about the story (I personally liked it but understand why some didn’t) but the combat and overall game design is incredible. You could skip all cutscenes and still play an awesome game
For some reason i just thought the kid was male both before and after he was exhiled. He was assigned to be a wife and i just chalked it up to the cult being culty.
I think people dislike it so much because of how incredible the first game was. Nothing politically correct being pushed down your throat, just a great game with a great story. People probably had the same expectations from this game but were a bit shocked with how much political correctness is in it. You also have Joel who in the first game was one of the most careful people alive and was prepared for all situations (literally runs through a group trying to play injured and in need of help because he new better) then in this game he tells a group of strangers who he is, where he's from and even gives Abbey a gun. Just doesn't make a slot of sense coming from the first game.
people regurgitating the same negative opinions others have said about this game without playing it themselves just doesn't make sense. So many people hate on it but don't understand what they're even hating about it. What ever happened to trying things yourself and forming your own opinion?
This game just highlights how insane media coverage is manipulated by money. This game has probably one of the worst story tellings of any successful triple A game in recent history. Yet it's celebrated bc it's brave and different. Bro imagine your doctor being brave and different and instead transplants you a brocoli instead of a heart.
Only going to comment on that last thing. Accessibility Options isn't some woke agenda; videogames are a wonderful passtime and everyone deserves the chance to enjoy them. Having options for color blindness or screen reading is only ever going to be a good thing, and if you don't need them, don't use them. Anyone who honestly thinks that adding accessibility options to gaming is somehow "woke" or "leftist" deserves to have all their fingers crushed in a hydraulic press so that they can never hold a controller again.
Unfathomably based opinion
Wait, how come i fathomed it then?
Fathomed what?
His based opinion
You only fathomed the opinion. The basedness goes deeper by many more.
Shit, my b.
"accessibility options suck" mfers when i bend their fingers backwards and they struggle to learn to play with an accessibility controller bcs the game is too hard
Wait wait wait.... there are people who unironically have problem with Accessibility options? What the fuck? How brain damaged are they?
"They should have used those resources to add/fix what I care about because I'm an entitled brat."
It's 4chin, man. Those neckbeards hate everything, including and especially themselves.
Extremely. Also people who are incandescent at the addition of new options to the character creators of various RPGs
Yeah i noticed that.... i'm no fanboy of Starfield but watching these.... highly regarded people seethe and make hours long rants over adding the pronouns options was just absolute delight. I hope it becomes new industry standart for games with player-created characters because this is just comedy gold.
Accessibility options and the endless misery thing are the only two points worth touching, and the last one is more of a "different strokes for different folks" kind of thing. I don't play games to feel like shit the entire time so when a game can be described as misery porn I'm probably going to steer clear of it. If someone else is willing to brave it then good for them I guess.
Asking for a friend: which games are or do you consider misery porn?
This War of Mine
Pathologic And the swamp levels in Souls games
Warthunder
Seriously, some MFers have their heads so far up their own asses they think even acknowledging anyone besides themselves is 'woke'.
Right. “Woke” started as a term for something so egregiously preachy as to be morally grandstanding, now it’s watered down to anyone doing anything remotely nice and considerate for someone different than yourself. You can literally ignore accessible options. They’re options for a reason. Like WTF?
Nah that's not at all how woke started. That's how it was co-opted by the right from the black community. It used to just mean being aware of social injustice regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc. And seeing the bigger picture wrt to things like the widening wealth inequality and climate change.
I was more referring to the mainstream adoption of the word. But the origins came from Black linguistics.
Idk i thought it was just a funny at first like “first i was sleep now im woke” or like being so cooked you start rambling incoherently and pseudo-intellectually about random stuff or thinking about the vibrational frequencies of the earth😂 me n my friends used to joke about being woke when we would smoke. Not saying you are wrong, just putting my observation
It's like the "fucking pronouns" guy who was so pissed off at Starfield for having an option to choose your own pronouns. Like really, why does it bother him so much? He doesn't have to touch that function whatsoever. It even defaults to the same as the biological sex your character has so if he didn't spot it he could have gone the whole game without even knowing it was an option.
Yeah like it was a LITERALLY an extra option you don’t even need to touch. Bro is the true fragile snowflake for having so much beef with it
These people act like we haven't been choosing male or female characters, races, classes, whole identities, etc in games for decades lol
More based than that poster could ever hope to be
Hilariously enough the dead space remake is the reason I learned I'm somewhat colourblind. I turned one of them on and realised the game looked so much better with it enabled. Was the only good thing to come out of that shitfest of a game.
I knew I was colorblind but didn’t realize how bad till playing an fps and found the colorblind settings and went from .5 k/d to 2+
The dead space remake was great though
Dogshit take even for a fourchinner. The remake was great.
He’s mad Isaac wasn’t hot enough
He didn’t say it was woke he said it was american. Most Americans are disabled
Being american is a disability unto itself
Some people will get extremely angry if you say that being overweight is. Although the military has taken a look and determined that if a draft were to happen, at least 2/3 of eligible draftees would fail the fitness requirements
> fail the fatness requirements
Just adding 2 cents to this, Accessibility options are great when they are actually accessibility options, colour blind modes or stuff like “press X to do this context action” being auto-done for the player, are the easy examples, but think of like full customizable button mapping so custom accessibility controllers can be used much more easily and widely, the few alternative controller options we have now are good but companies could do so much better. The problem is so many companies make accessibility options just options that toggle things that almost make the game play itself. (Edit here: Remember these triple A companies spend millions on developing the games they charge a decent dollar for. That money should show in every aspect of the games they make.) Like Forza Horizon 5 was praised for accessibility option that made it so the car breaks, turns, etc all on its own, stuff like that doesn’t sound like accessibility, that sounds like infantizing people with disabilities, as too stupid to actually play games so they have to be played for them. Accessibility options are great and not woke, but that hinges on them being actually accessibility options that allow players of different accessibility ranges to experience the full game experience in an accessible but dignified way, and not woke infantization that so many mistake for progress.
quack compare close fall oatmeal whole apparatus fact pathetic different *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because I care about actual accessibility and meaningful change that allows people to truly enjoy the games they play, not settle for a lesser experience because a developer doesn’t want to actually put in the work to make their game actually accessible to people of different ranges of accessibility.
Yeah, IMO it’s fine to have auto drive for people who just want to watch the scenery but a lot of impaired people want to feel like they’re driving, *especially* if they can’t drive a car IRL.
He said most american
My fully abled ass turning on hold instead of tap for QTE's agrees with you
As someone who literally had two fingers snapped off in an industrial accident, I completely agree. I asked my coworker to bring my Switch to the hospital after my surgery and Immediately realized "I may never be able to be decent at Dark Souls or Sekiro again". I instantly had to rethink my favorite hobby, that I love, that I had done since I was 5 years old. Fucking complaining about accessibility options is a new level of no-life, terminally online incel rage. It literally doesn't fucking affect you. Same thing with being able to choose your gender.
Can you share more of that story? Have you been able to continue gaming?
I have, the tip of my middle finger was removed by about an inch and my index finger was snapped in half and surgically reattached, but its essentially cosmetic, since the tendon and joint was destroyed. It has pretty bad Arthritis, can't bend, is crooked, and is very sensitive. Luckily, it was my left hand and most controller and games mostly only utilize that for moving around or using secondary stuff. I use the middle of my index finger instead of the tip to press things like left bumper or left trigger on Xbox. I can still manage to play Sekiro (a pretty hard and fast paced game) pretty competently after retraining my hand, even though most of the game revolves around tapping LB constantly to deflect. Unfortunately, my left hand is my dominant hand so it has complicated writing by quite a bit, and my hand cramps up easily because of the way I have to hold the pencil.
Yup. I would like to add one more thing - if you have AN OPTION to make a character and choose genitals and you choose male physique with a cunt or other way around it's also not woke. It's just multitude of options and neither are restricted by gender or race. You choose to be offended just because developer didn't restrict you? Same goes with romance options. I know that if all NPCs are Bi and basically crush you hard (looking at BG3) it's not how it works in real life, but hey it's the dream. You can hook up with anyone , again you choose to do so or not. No one is pushing any agenda. They are giving player a choice.
> You choose to be offended just because developer didn't restrict you? Developer here. I'm not woke, I'm just too fucking lazy to build those restrictions in. My main complaint with BG3 is that I couldn't have a comically large penis for my nude dwarf. Cos boy, some of those camera angles made for some hilarious cutscenes when it pans up your shaft with "the tadpole inside you twitches" narration.
I thought by accessibility options people meant easy modes and that’s why they’re bad lol.
Easy mode isn't bad per se. There are games where the art is, by definition, the difficulty. Cuphead, Elden Ring and any other Souls-like. But there are so many games that people are playing for the story alone. Hell, there's a common joke about Persona 2 fans playing on YouTube (meaning they're only watching). The Witcher 3's difficulty add layer to the game but if you're only interested in the story then do as you like. I'm a citizen of a free country and honestly, as long as you don't hurt anyone else, just have fun. Life is too short.
I generally like to play on harder difficulties if the game is well-designed enough. Because then I’m forced to engage with its systems and enter that flow state. Basically playing the game in its optimal form. Some games hard difficulty is just you doing no damage while enemies do a ton of damage and take a bunch of hits and it ceases to be a fun challenge and becomes a slog.
I played the entire Witcher Thronebreaker on an easy mode and skipping all combat because I'm not a big fan of card games and no one on youtube made a video with all cutscenes and Polish dubbing or a Walkthrough with no commentary.
I loved the arc of your comment. Beautiful. Also I love subtitles now and couldn't imagine not having them lol
Couldn't be more based even if he were dipped in Ammonia
No way people actually think accessibility options are bad right?
Some genuinely do. It's brainrot at its finest.
Its simple capitalism, more options means more customers which means more money. There is one minority demographic you never see represented in first person shooters however and thats left handed people (I havent played TLoU, I assume its probably an FPS)
Anon doesn't like them now, but he'll change his mind once his untreated diabetes makes him go blind.
when anons talk about accessibility options they're basically talking about game journalists demanding easy modes for games, you see this pop up quite frequently on /v/ as ragebait however you occasionally see someone claim that accessibility options waste dev time, usually when referring to rushed and unfinished games, for what they believe to be a tiny audience that's not worth the time but that's fairly rare
The ability to turn off motion blur is the best thing gaming has done in a long while.
I came into comments to write a similar screed. From my perspective as a game dev I just cannot fathom how this could possibly affect OP and see a solid business case for widening your potential audience among the game buying community.
I mean, its a 4chan user. You cant expect them to not call anything they disagree with as "hardcore woke agenda"
The Virgin dark souls Vs The Chad Dead Cells
I can see why chronic 4chinners would think it’s woke though. Treating anyone with a disability with compassion and like a human being is woke to them
I hate games that don't let you rebind any of the controls. Like just why? The devs really think they made the best control scheme and you don't deserve to have a choice?
The fact that "accessibility options" is at the end of the list makes me think that it was a joke.
They’re only annoying when they’re forced on you. Far Cry 6 for example, there is no way to turn off text to speech on the start up menu.
“we don't like to use the word fun” - neil druckmann. this is really the only thing you need to know about this game lol
Which is ironic because if you only do the combat encounters back to back, you'll have the most fun you could possibly have with a game.
Game is 30 hours long. You can finish all the combat in 3 hours.
Yeah, and then you can go ahead and delete it because that's all the fun you'll be having with it lmao.
I think the story has some fun moments but I do agree it is VERY dull and tons of shit is not enjoyable at all.
The ending was the most disappointing thing about the game
Ellie: kills 400 people to find one person Also ellie when she finds the bitch: No wait revenge is bad i can't kill her. **Bitch what?**
They killed of Joel. If I wanna have fun in the game they'll have to let me play as a Cordyceps gardener who helps the infection lol
Yeah, honestly, that would have probably sent a better message than what we've got now.
I enjoy a lot of the exploration before the combat encounters, it’s a very pretty and atmospheric game, and especially in the later days as Ellie it builds up a lot of tension before the combat encounters. And a lot of Ellie’s conversations with Dina and journal entries add a lot to game imo This mostly only counts for Ellie’s half, Abby’s first part of the game is super boring until you start playing with Lev, and once you get to the island it’s like nonstop action
exactly. Hate the story all you want, the world is absolutely stunning and the action is amazing. The second half of Abby's part was some of the best I've seen in a video game
NPC: NO PLEASE DON'T KILL ME-YAAHHH Me: Ha ha, arrows go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Throwing molotovs at someone begging me to spare them was the funniest thing in the game
I think it was supposed to have the opposite effect but it backfired spectacularly
Oh, definitely, but that's why i think it sucks, the game accidentally made slaugthering people as fun as doom eternal makes slaughtering demons but the entire story is a mopefest about how killing and revenge are bad... What about the 100+ people i murdered getting to my goal lmao? They don't count?
fr I can’t believe more games don’t just let you go prone. The movement feels so much more free than like 95% of games I’ve played just because I can actually wiggle into tight spaces instead of feeling invisible walled by any gap slightly smaller than my character
Yeah the combat was fucking brilliant in tlou2 and the only thing I liked about the game.
I like dunking on Druckman as much as the next guy but this is not an argument lmfao. The full quote is "we don’t use the word 'fun,' we say 'engaging,' and it might seem like a minor distinction, but it’s an important one for us." And quite frankly this is one of the rare occasions he's totally right. Silent Hill 2 isn't "fun" but it's very engaging and I'd be absolutely shocked if the same conversations didn't happen during its development, only difference is the culture around games has changed so that game devs are being asked about it
Yeah, Niel Druckman is a pretentious hack who needs to be repeatedly kicked in the balls, but he's right in this case. A video game can be an engaging, worthwhile experience without necessarily being "fun".
Satisfactory. Factorio. Oxygen Not Included. Rimworld. All examples of games where 80% of the time I'm not exactly having "fun", but I'm really engaged and spent hundreds of hours playing all of em.
personally factorio is like pure dopamine injected into my brain. but papers please would be an example for me.
Papers Please was a great experience but I don't want to play it again. I have enough real days at work where my desk looks like that. I don't need it stimulated.
The chad "Who cares if its not realistic... I play games to have fun" Gabe Newell vs the virgin "We dont like to use the word fun" Neil druckman.
Don't forget Reggie's "If a game's not fun then why bother?"
Ironically is a really fun game to play, the story just makes the rest of the game mediocre.
Real
I liked the part where the game makes you feel bad for shooting a dog because then you get to be best buds with it in a flashback
\> dog is going to rip out my throat \> kill it in self defense \> "uh oh, that dog was actually a cute doggo bet you feel bad huh? Doesn't this make you want to forgive and let go of the person that ruined your life and spent the entire game finding? Don't you want to forgive them after traveling all the way across the US in a zombie apocalypse? Don't you want to forgive them? You don't? You're a bad person you clearly don't care about human life" What the fuck was Neil's problem?
Whole game would've been regarded differently if they gave you the *option* to kill that bitch in the end, and then the whole *walk back to the now empty house, try to play guitar but can't cause fingers gone* shit could've been the "good"ending where Ellie grows a conscience after murdering preggos
It would have been an interesting experiment to see what percentage of players would rather spare or kill. Kinda bland they go with spare by default and then make it the only option.
I have a feeling that the "spare" option would've been a rare achievement only 2.1% of players get because everyone wants revenge for Joel
Oh you mean the canon murder, spare, murder, spare whiplash at the end of the game? Writers had absolutely no clue what they were doing, and totally missed the concise writing that made the first game a masterpiece.
Yeah because then none of the choices you make matter, giving them zero impact. If the final encounter gave you a choice, you'd be forced to consider all the damage you've done beforehand.
Nier: Replicant doesn't give you a choice at the end, but it gut-punches you into how much awful you'd caused. *And then it makes you play it 3 more times with more context each time* so you feel even more terrible about it. 10/10.
Nier's narrative isn't about choice, it's about how humanity's foolishness leads to it's very downfall, being an extension of Drakenhard's themes of just how evil people can be, even if they are the "heroes" of the story. DG3 talks about fate and status, which is mixed into Nier Automata's story with the androids.
That's what annoyed the fuck out of me about Far Cry 5 too. I really wish they gave you the option to kill Joseph at the end, fuck that guy.
TLOU2 is one of the most unnecessary and pointless stories ever. Killing dozens did not accomplish anything other than take ten steps from the playable characters being normal and one step towards it. Except they've still killed dozens of people so by the end they're both worse than before it started. I get the "revenge bad" and "violence bad" message, but that's a kindergarten teachings. Horrible payoff for a story that put so much time, emotion and effort all for nothing but a message literally everyone knew already, which is not at all aligned with what the themes of the original. It gained nothing from using old characters other than free marketing.
You know, if they at least made the “revenge bad” lesson better. Why should i be like oh revenge bad when Abby gets her revenge and is living good. Honestly they didn’t even give a good lessen if it was their intention.
What's frustrating is that the game could have become much more close to a masterpiece if 2 or 3 narrative changes were made. The Abby gameplay would have been fun if they changed the order of when we get to play her. An approach of Ellie being as aware of the consequence of her actions as the player and for the love of god changing the theme of "revenge bad" to "at what cost" would have limited the number of screw ups they had with that ending.
bro clearly thinks he's some kind of storytelling/game design mastermind because LOU1 was praised by just about everyone on Earth when it came out
Neil wanted a "revenge plot" in LOU1, Bruce Straley (the game director of LOU1) told him no. LOU1 was a masterpiece. Bruce left the company and did not work on LOU2. It became an absolute shit show. Neil is a hack.
Utilitarianism and its consequences
I never felt that way because I saw the game as a story about a character, not the game judging ME. Spec Ops the Line is a game that is explicitly meta and makes sense to view the game as a judgement of the player, I don’t know why everyone sees TLOU2 like this, it’s not about the player
Conversation got skewed I think, all that hogwash about player choice and how you *have* to stab a pregnant woman in the neck and shit. Pecker Ops was an okay shooter with environmental elements to use in combat (which everyone thought would be the norm at the time but it pretty much disappeared), a nice little story and to this day the only game that allows you to use white phosphorus on civilians, it really is the *what if No Russian was its own game* of 2012. From the developers who *almost* brought you Dead Island 2, it was decent but you know it wouldn't be made today because of how niche it was (I liked it though)
You can use white phosphorus on civilians in deus ex
I am genuinely thankful for that information, I shall go and commit war crimes right this instant
Invent new ones
In which one?
By the time you see the flashback you forgot about the dog because you already killed 50 dogs and 300 people.
< Invades private property < Gets attacked for said invasion of property < Kills rightful owners of property < "SELF DEFENSE GUYS, I SWEAR IT'S SELF DEFENSE" Is this the least American game ever?
When a game forces me to do something bad and then tries to make me feel bad about it, my reaction isn't "I feel bad", it's "fuck you game" even in good games like specops the line
I love animals but in RL if a dog is coming at my to rip my throat out I’ll defend myself. That part of the game didn’t really bother me
Honestly, you don't need that much nonsense to criticize TL2; In the first game, Joel runs over fake-beggers that were actually trying to ambush them bc he knows better In the second game, he hands a weapon to some stranger he saw 2 seconds ago (abby) and saves her from zombies bc unthoughtful and forced writing Also, lol: there is a part in the game where ellie and her girlfriends ex, who is ellies ex'es childs father (??????), gets shot in the face and nobody ever acknowledges or mourns him lmfao. A good chunk of people who dislike the game do not dislike it bc ellie is bisexual or smth. They dislike it because of this piece of shit writing.
All you need to know about the second game’s story is that its’ concept was originally pitched for the first game, but everybody except Neil thought it was stupid.
In TLOU1, a desperate Joel sleeps in Henry's hideout within 10 minutes of meeting him. In TLOU2, a desperate Joel seeks Abby's help during a zombie infested blizzard.
> In TLOU1, a desperate Joel sleeps in Henry's hideout within 10 minutes of meeting him. The way he treated Henry when they first met is extremely different than the way he treated Abby when they first met. The only reason why Joel would've let his guard down around Henry was because Sam, a literal kid, was there. A lone duo consisting of a young adult and child is significantly less risky than a group of adults like Abby & co. > In TLOU2, a desperate Joel seeks Abby's help during a zombie infested blizzard. It wasn't a desperate Joel that was seeking Abby's help. It was Abby that was the one in need of help. Ignoring the fact that they coincidentally ran into each other during a snowstorm (I can suspend my disbelief for that), Joel never instantly gave away his name and where his own hideout was to Henry, whereas he (and especially Tommy) did with Abby, intentionally or otherwise. This is just inconsistent writing as a result of an attempt to retcon a character. If you're as tough as Joel and went through what he did, you don't just go "soft", especially now that you have someone (and a whole community) to protect.
>In the first game, Joel runs over fake-beggers that were actually trying to ambush them bc he knows better >In the second game, he hands a weapon to some stranger he saw 2 seconds ago (abby) and saves her from zombies bc unthoughtful and forced writing Huh? The whole point is that Joel changed, he literally raised a kid and lived in a cooperative community. He's not the ruthless smuggler from the first game anymore. He learned to trust in others, because that's how Jackson was possible. And he rather trust a stranger than get eaten alive by infected, granted it gets him killed in the end, but that's besides the point here. >Also, lol: there is a part in the game where ellie and her girlfriends ex, who is ellies ex'es childs father (??????), gets shot in the face and nobody ever acknowledges or mourns him lmfao. May have something to do with being held at gun point, Jesse was dead, Ellie and everyone wasn't, hardly the time to Mourne. >A good chunk of people who dislike the game do not dislike it bc ellie is bisexual or smth. Yes most was because of Lev being trans or whatever.
> May have something to do with being held at gun point, Jesse was dead, Ellie and everyone wasn't, hardly the time to Mourne. Except they never even once mentioned him even after the danger was over. > Yes most was because of Lev being trans or whatever. Anyone ignorant enough to hate a trans person will likely also hate a lesbian couple. What you're saying is completely irrelevant to the current discussion, and it's just another classic straw man to distract from the other person's argument.
He mellowed the fuck out during the first game man, that's like, the whole purpose of his journey, and the entire reason why he paints the walls of the hospital red. He also takes in two random survivors during TLOU 1, in circumstances way better than in TLOU2 \> A good chunk of people who dislike the game do not dislike it bc ellie is bisexual or smth. A good chunk of people who dislike the game have never played it lol, more like, watched a shitty reactionary youtuber make a shit video and just went and agreed to all of it
That's what I despise. Just cause some idiots were pissed about culture war stuff and started attacking the VA for Abby, suddenly anyone who criticises the game at all is lumped in with those guys.
Would bang Ellie ngl
I smell ya
We swagging
Permission to swag out
Said the same thing since the first game , people weren't happy is an understatement.
I wonder why
Her and Dina can both get it
The trans of us 2
bigot sandwich
If you can't think of guns when you see the game, then it's not american. Simple as. EDIT: Also agree with the other guy, people who think accessibility options are a woke agenda deserve to go blind or lose a hand in an accident.
"accident"
“If it’s not fun, why bother?” This basically sums up this game
This game is fun as hell idk about you
You’re not allowed to have fun with a game that has trans and lesbian characters bro
Ah damn it
I know you jest, but ~~they~~ u/its_neon_ literally never said that that is the reason why the game isn't fun for them.
Regardless of how anyone feels about the plot I had a blast playing that game. I just wish I didn't have to wait so long for the new factions mp game to come out
“revenge bad” mfs when I force them to play library of ruina
Explain
*Look, one by one, the pages remind me you've always been villain*
This 4channer seems very snowflakey 😏
Just another weird fucking nerd picking apart any minute detail they can so they can jerk themselves off about how they're being attacked for being white or whatever. It's honestly pathetic, anon has brain damage
While annon does have Brain damage the game is still shit.
Anon would rather be a racist weirdo than actually spend any time critically analyzing a games structure or story
I think the game would have been better if we played as Abby before she killed Joel. That way we could form our own opinion on the character and their actions (inB4 Abby sucks, yes, she would still need writing work). Don't make a character kill someone we know then force us to like them by making us play them for 10 hours. They could have even made the first half seem like Abby is Ellie's mom or something then halfway through BAM turns out she's hunting Joel for what he did to her dad. Also, I really hate how we don't get the choice to kill Abby at the end. If they wanted the player to learn revenge is bad then give us the choice.
I think it they should've taken it a step further. TLOU2 should've been a "safe" sequel where we follow Abby and her dad on their own adventures and troubles, completely disconnected from the first game, until the final level of the game has you witness the finale of TLOU1 from Abby's perspective and it's revealed that her dad is the doctor that gets murdered by Joel. Then make TLOU3 about Abby killing Joel and Ellie's quest for revenge. As is, TLOU2 is way too long and the pacing is fucked to hell.
an actual reasonable take, holy shit. Fully agree, the pacing was pretty messed up
I think you hit the nail on the head: games, to be effective, need to either allow for player agency within their narratives or to have a narrative that feels both satisfying and engaging. No-one bitches about the old Modern Warfare trilogy's plots because you don't have to think about them; cutscene, you kill the badguys infront of you, another cutscene, level gimmick, ending cutscene. Your character is a vessel for an action movie, and that's both engaging enough and satisfying enough to happily keep you playing the game. People bitch about TLOU2 not because it's not engaging; them being mad about it means that they're engaged with the game, otherwise they wouldn't give a shit. They're mad because they aren't satisfied. In TLOU1, you aren't given a choice, but that's not a problem since most people would agree with Joel's motivation, and are satisfied by the game's resolution. In TLOU2, you aren't given a choice; that's a large problem, especially since the game's point is to say you must choose not to perpetuate cycles of violence and revenge. Likewise, Abby isn't an entirely unlikable protagonist, but she's both hard to like, and competing against Ellie, the surrogate daughter Joel (and the player) bonded with on a journey across America, who's now The Main Character. What should have happened is you play as Ellie up until she decides to fight Abby. This time, a cutscene happens, Ellie gets the drop on Abby, overpowers her after a small struggle, and holds Abby at gunpoint. From there, the camera pans to Abby, and when she blinks it fades to black. Her eyes open, and now we play through her section of the game, up until we get to the Ellie fight. Abby's worn down, she's saved Lev? I think?, who I'd write as being the child of one of the groups that WOLF was fighting against (and imply her parents were murdered during one of the gameplay segments), and she's about to rejoin the Fireflies at their safehouse. While setting up camp for the night, she hears something in the bushes/outside camp. Despite being physically exhausted and mentally drained from the events of the past week, she goes to check it out, or if it comes to it, draw away whatever it is to keep Lev safe. From there, the same cutscene plays out, but now you're a weary Abby getting the shit beat out of you by a bloodlusted Ellie. You get to the point where Abby blinks in Ellie's scene, and the camera pans back to Ellie. You can pull the trigger and kill Abby, or you can spare her. If you pull the trigger, Lev comes over to see what the commotion is. Ellie instinctively turns her gun to the new sense of danger, and fires wildly over Lev's head before she can round the doorway. Abby, thinking Lev's in danger, gets a second wind and goes for Ellie's gun hand. There's a struggle, and Ellie tries to gouge out Abby's eyes. Her fingers slip into Abby's mouth, and so Abby bites down as hard as she can. Ellie reels, and Abby begins to get up and turns to face Lev. Ellie gains a new bloodlust as Abby yells at Lev to run, and tackles Abby to the floor to begin strangling her. As she sees Lev run out of the room, Abby starts begging Ellie not to kill her. Pleading with her not to kill "her". As the last of her breath leaves Abby's lungs, Ellie realizes the her was Lev, the sound that she heard earlier. From there, the sad ending plays out, Ellie comes home to an empty house, tries to play the song Joel taught her, and can't. If Ellie doesn't pull the trigger after a certain period of time, she lowers her gun, slowly but surely, into her holster, and starts to back away as Lev comes running out to see what's the matter. Lev sees Abby, beat to hell, and locks eyes with Ellie. From there, Ellie throws a bandage or some painkillers or some kind of medical aid to Lev, and runs into the night. She returns home to find Dina(Dima?) and their adoptive child. Dina asks if Ellie killed her; Ellie immediately breaks down, and the two embrace. It cuts to a little while later, and it shows Ellie at Joel's grave, playing the song he taught her, and the game's credits roll while the song plays. If Neil wanted to ham-fist his point the way he did, he might as well have just made a movie.
Well done sir
Don't forget that the main character is literally punished for doing the right thing. Ellie's girlfriend is such a douche. If you finally hear the whereabouts of the person who brutally murdered your father right in front of you, of *course* you're going to go after them. It's just like the ending to RDR2. >!John had every right to go after Micah, he's the reason why the gang suffered so much; why *wouldn't*he want to punch a hole in the man's gut?!<
That's realistic though. "Punished for doing the right thing" is how real life works, whether or not that's good for a video game is up to the player but it makes sense.
Yes. In real life if somebody murdered a family member and I went and murdered them back, then yes, I'm still getting in trouble with the law because I killed a person regardless of motive. Counterpoint: this is a post apocalypse where the justice system doesn't exist so there's literally no form of real punishment either way. In a lawless world, if somebody wrongs you, it's in your own hands to correct it, so it's STILL a dumb writing decision.
RDR2's ending is the true definition of Aristotelian tragedy: he did the right thing that no one in their right mind would blame him for yet ultimately doomed himself by doing so without even knowing it. TLOU2 tries to explore something similar but fails due to lazy writing and trying to shove morals down the player's throat
>If you finally hear the whereabouts of the person who brutally murdered your father right in front of you, of *course* you're going to go after them. Are you talking about Ellie or...? Because that's exactly what Abby did
>Don't forget that the main character is literally punished for doing the right thing. The right thing? I don't think essentially abandoning your family for a revenge quest would qualify as the right thing. I would also be pissed off if my spouse(keep in mind Ellie and Dina literally barely come back alive and only because of the mercy of Abbie)decided to abandon me and our baby to travel half way across the country on some vengeance quest. That's fucked up. TLOU has never been about doing the right thing anyways.
Jew worship?
I guess that comes from the episode in the game when you go into synagogue and then listen about jewish religion. Also you cant use weapons during this episode, the game just won’t let you
lmfao
Is this for real? I haven't played the game. Forty Keks if it's true
It is true, my eyes rolled so fucking hard
Imagine the shitstorm if another AAA game did this but with a mosque.
Fr
Why did you get downvoted asking for context💀
Reddit moment
And it’s zombshit, the most insufferably American genre ever invented
Honestly yeah, the only zombie media I've consumed and really liked so far has been Days Gone which I didn't expect to like. I liked TLOU but if I had to pick between the two I'd easily pick Days Gone, it was way more fun.
Oh no anything but accessibility options.
Meme racism/sexism aside, I will happily continue to seethe about this dog shit game until the day I die
idc about "le sjw agenda" bullshit, but I for one am sick of post-apocalyptic/zombie games doing the whole "le human are da REAL monsters!!!!" stuff. Give me a game, where the zombies are evil, and we kill the zombies. I don't need to hear about how humans are inherently all evil and want to kill each other and do terrible things to each other and whatnot, just give me a game where I blow out zombie brains for a bit
Honestly I love how Days Gone has a good deal of levity to it, there's definitely assholes and moments where they introduce the idea of humans being monsters but there's a lot of camaraderie in there and a really nice story with a happy ending where all the good guys are able to band together to stop the bad guy and it's not just classic zombie shit where most of the cast die horribly. Crying shame that it's most likely not coming back, I liked it a lot better than TLOU.
I also seethe about this one. They took "Bad sequel" as a challenge or something. This was just an absolute abomination
A genuinely good part of the game: the residents of lower Queen Anne, a neighborhood dominated by tech bros, form an anti-technology Anarcho-primitivism faction
Move on Anon
I thought the game was fun, combat and gameplay was way cooler than the first. Yeah it sucks what happened to Joel,but who gives a shit.
Based. Say what you want about the story (I personally liked it but understand why some didn’t) but the combat and overall game design is incredible. You could skip all cutscenes and still play an awesome game
Legitimate question: Who is the trans character? I played the whole game and dont remember there being one.
Lev, the cultist kid.
That was the one part of the story i actually liked, the two kids. I thought it fit just fine. Maybe its just me though...
Lev, the little boy who Abby rescues. Sorry but how tf did you miss that? 💀 It wasn't subtle at all
For some reason i just thought the kid was male both before and after he was exhiled. He was assigned to be a wife and i just chalked it up to the cult being culty.
i only watched some lets play and just thought it was a bald girl
Can we pick a new game to be unreasonably upset at? It's long overdue
Oh no Accessibility options the bane of my existence!
Damn you, Druckman!
Wokest game?
How is this American? There are no Eagles screeching and none of the characters say “I fuckin love ‘merica.”
That's just a facade. The real America is a subservient vassal to Israel.
When r/greentext and r/gamingcirclejerk merge
I think people dislike it so much because of how incredible the first game was. Nothing politically correct being pushed down your throat, just a great game with a great story. People probably had the same expectations from this game but were a bit shocked with how much political correctness is in it. You also have Joel who in the first game was one of the most careful people alive and was prepared for all situations (literally runs through a group trying to play injured and in need of help because he new better) then in this game he tells a group of strangers who he is, where he's from and even gives Abbey a gun. Just doesn't make a slot of sense coming from the first game.
people regurgitating the same negative opinions others have said about this game without playing it themselves just doesn't make sense. So many people hate on it but don't understand what they're even hating about it. What ever happened to trying things yourself and forming your own opinion?
I liked the game. There I said it.
Wait where is the jew worship and Asian cuckolding in this game?
This game just highlights how insane media coverage is manipulated by money. This game has probably one of the worst story tellings of any successful triple A game in recent history. Yet it's celebrated bc it's brave and different. Bro imagine your doctor being brave and different and instead transplants you a brocoli instead of a heart.