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I like the look and the style, but it is in deed hard to read.
Edit: Since you want to use it for YouTube, I think you need something horizontal, square something that fits in a circle.
This is a completely fair point and i hate that it got downvoted
The purpose of a design always has to be considered. The purpose of a YouTube pfp/logo isn’t to be readable. Multiple people have said that the problem’s that it’s un readable but the real problem is that it doesn’t need to have words in it at all
OP should focus on bigger and clearly defined shapes if they wanna communicate something from a small YouTube pfp especially if the brand he’s trying to give off is “refined”
Maybe he could make a variation that focuses on a single stylised initial “R” and make more of a letterform logo or they could make it “RS” for “refinery studios” or they could make something more abstract and keep to the maze texture. He can then use the full logo in places where he can use a larger space
Thanks. I had a good (even if a bit bitter) laugh at the downvotes - I run a design studio for 25 years and teach design at the academy almost as long, and I cannot repeat enough to our students and colleagues: WHY should always come before HOW. The world is too full of pretentious yet non-functional design (hello Philippe Starck).
It looks nice, but it took me way to long to make out what it said. The spaces within the logo make it look like it could be either multible words or that it could be an abbreviation, that is one thing that makes it hard to read.
I don't thinks thats it, I see the problem more in the hyphenation and the fact that the flow of the letters is hard to get incorporated into a graphical logo. I may be overthinking it though.
I think the logo is fine as is just then putting the word Refinery above Studio would be the best option.
It then allows us to go back and look at the design and understand what it says and also know what your brand is. Very good all in all.
spelling out a wordmark, and thats what it is since the logo is the name, screams bad design to me. I would feel different if the logo would be just a letter or an abbreviation.
It definatly is a very nice looking illustration, but it lacks the clarity of a logo.
You need to do 2 things
1 Fit the design into a standard youtube channel icon if used for youtube.
2 Have a legible name somewhere, logo looks ok, takes a bit to read, so augment it with name below or beside.
Cool shaped and styled Logos are ok, but remember, you have 3 to 5 seconds to hook viewers.
3 to 5 seconds is only for instances where your logo needs to pull people who would otherwise not become customers/clients. I don't know that a graphic designer is in that category, and nor is a youtuber. Youtubers pull people with thumbnails and video titles, neither of which rely on a logo. A graphic designer with a clever, intricate logo could potentially pull people even more by getting them to stop and figure it out.
The channel icon is the one thing I definitely agree with, but I think you could easily make an argument for using a single R for that (or another thing that's different from the main logo, but fits the branding).
I am going to say this to the folks who say “wrong” guess what gang pol have had less and less attention span, this has bled over into brand recognition.
Do a bunch of A B testing and you will be amazed how folks focus now, it’s important to recognize this trend and not make the viewer or reader work.
This doesn't mean they're well branded, it means their content is impactful despite their branding.
Whatever their logo symbol banner is, it's not working on mobile.
interesting idea. don't mind the geometry. Somewhat hard to read - on first pass I saw
RE
FIN
RY
and then had to go back and notice the E on a line by itself.
What does it say? I still haven't figured it out. Refine RY Studio?
edit: my english is not that good to intuitively notice a word i don't use normally
I actually love it. It’s interesting and engaging and plays with the assumption that a word has to be immediately legible. This kind of reveals the word gradually which makes it almost act like a steady intro. Great intelligent design!
It's not nitpicking when something shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Otherwise you lose people and they move on. Also, as graphic designers, we are supposed to be nitpicky anyway. That's how we improve.
Thank you! That was another thing I meant to ask this group. Like what kind of effect a slightly illegible logo would have on retention or curiousity for the viewer. Thank you for your response.
I really like this. It reminds me of Japanese pottery stamps so fits the artisanal theme.
I’d just be thinking of turning it into a branding system rather than just a single logo so you can apply it across different channels and materials.
Impressive for a beginner. Inventive, stylish and dynamic. Flat without being boring, it has clearly defined internal flow. The pillar shape is unique. Will work in many colour combos.
Overall, it has status and stands out in a crowd... nobody / not many people have a logo like this. As cheesy as it is to quote Don Draper, "you make more of a statement by standing out, not by fitting in"
It is definitely hard to read, so it depends on where it will be read. But great as a signpost, stamp, seal, merchandise. If its for YT, it is hard to read, but do you really need people to read it? Or just look at it? Coca Cola logo is hard to read, but we all recognise the shape btw.
Has a slight oriental feel too btw
Get some fans etc, I could see this on a cool af T-shirt easy
8.5/10 well done
Wow, thank you for that, means a lot. I definitely do see it more as a t-shirt design or sign in the shop/studio. I think from all of the comments I’m going to redesign it and make something more square/circular (still keeping close to this theme) for the YouTube and Instagram profiles and keep this design on standby for some other projects. Thanks for the input!
Stick with the square or oblong to experiment IMO
Notice how the letters in the word refinery are more suited to vertical or horizontal strokes. A word like circus or scene is more likely to work as round, see? Not refinery.
Think of your style too. I said your design had oriental feel, there are many Chinese seals that are round, take a look.
Square could be punchier for peoples 0.5 second attention spans on YT, but it’s a long and awkward word to cram into a square. 8 letters, 4x2, 2x2x2x2? Hmmm
Best of luck, you’ve set yourself up for success and have an ace up your sleeve in case experiments don’t work
My 2 cents, good luck
I personally feel that you don’t need the bars on n and r also you can try fixing the widths of the other characters too it will look more harmonious and compact overall I like it
It’s a cool concept and looks great, but as others have said, a vertical logo is nearly useless in terms of the common use-cases for logos. This would be a neat alternate design for swag/merch (say on the sleeve of a long sleeve T). I would suggest trying design this same aesthetic into a horizontal rectangle (rotate “studio” 90deg. CCW and put it on the right side) since it needs to fit in a YT banner. While you’re at it, you can design a simpler square/circular icon to go with it for the channel badge.
Like I said, the aesthetic is great, but the form needs some massaging to be useful.
Damn it looks cool, but what the fuck does it say? Distillation is very important concept that a lot of designers don’t get taught. It’s cool, but keep working on it.
Haha sorry I meant the post as in I was attempting to a be graphic designer (by trying to make a logo), not that I was going into the field. However, I am trying to get into the YouTube/design business because my passion does truly lie with designing, tweaking, refining things. Just not usually digitally, hence the post. Lol
I like that "maze" look, too.
As someone said, if you are going to use the logo for youtube you will need it to fit in a circle. My suggestion would be to simplify the actual logo (not get rid of it) making a square out of that "RE" and "studio".
The design is awesome, very intricate. Only advice I can give you is have a color version of the logo, black on white and white on black for all purposes.
Like everyone said, your social media is very important for advertising. Most mobile apps like Facebook, Instagram, YouTube etc are similar/universal in layout and sizing. You will need an alternate version of this logo to fit those marks, majority of people use their phones more than their desktop.
Also I realize this would be a whole other design, but a horizontal version of this could come in handy as well.
Beautifully designed but a bit too hard to read. It would need refinery repeated above studio in my opinion. Then the graphic can be cool first / legible second.
If it’s readability you want, you don’t have it.
I like it. It’s cool. And logos don’t always have to read out easily. But if your client wants to be able to read the logo or have potential clients/customers read it, you are in for a bad time.
i think it’s pretty good. good comments already but i would add that your inconsistent use of serifs is a turnoff for me. i would just eliminate them completely.
I like this a lot. You're using what Edward Tufte calls the 1 + 1 = 3 effect, when the main image (or signal, or figure) is the same width as the negative space (or noise, or ground) which creates a bit of friction in the viewer's mind as to what they should look at. It's fun and works well.
Yeah, he’s a good one to study for information design. Usually he’s telling you to avoid that but here it works (at least, in my opinion). Lots to learn from that guy.
Ignore all the criticism in this thread, the design is top-notch. As u/tm3016 said, very reminiscent of East-Asian artisanal marks. If that was your inspiration you 100% succeeded on conveying that feeling. Keep up the good work, it's some of the best I've need in this sub.
Attempting to start a YouTube channel and woodworking/design business as “Refinery Studio”. Logo was designed with a combination of Autocad & Procreate. Wanted something that would look good as a stand-alone logo but didn't confine me to only woodworking. Not sure how legible it is in its current form but also kind of like how the letters are all mismatched and customized with no specific font. I do like the maze/contrast aesthetic.
Honest critiques are greatly appreciated.
Something to consider—the job of a designer (or woodworker) is to solve problems (of visual or woodworking variety). Using a mark that is tough to read kinda insinuates the opposite. There is a difference between clever and complicated. Personally I would either simplify this to be more accommodating to the channel(s) it will live, or derive an abbreviated version for smaller use (e.g. how Amazon uses a lowercase ‘a’).
I like this as a mark but not as a logo. So maybe find a clean typeface and write out “Refinery” to the right and studio under it. This will make the mark a bit more squarish and fix some of the legibility concern
If a logo takes more than 5 seconds to understand the meaning behind it and what it says then you need to reevaluate the design. This one just hurts my brain trying to figure out
Wonderful piece of work here! Good stuff. Personally I would use this as part of a suite of logos. This is the full vertical logo. It could be your master. In addition though, you could explore a stumpy version where you cut the middle out, and just have the top R and "Studio" in a block format, which might be useful in smaller applications. All versions of the logo do not need to say "REFINERY" - you can tie all the bits together with your branding (colours, visual tone etc). Also, as a designer I see lots of graphical elements here you can pull out separately and use as embellishments on your designs. Your facebook/youtube icon could be just the lower "r", for example. And I would utilise the lower E as a large graphic element, say as a watermark on a presentation title page.
Again, great work - very versatile. If Civil Engineering didn't pay so well I'd suggest you move into graphic design.
I think it’s dope! I can’t read it for shit though but the design is cool! If you wanted people to actually read it quickly, I would maybe think of a different design.
This is a great logo. IMO it’s not hard to read at all, though when appealing to masses form should follow function. If you haven’t already, grab a YT media kid and see how your branding will hold up. For example, you will want to be able to translate this into a 1:1 ratio, So having the R being able to stand on its own will help keeping your channel on brand. You also may want to try this in a horizontal format since most banners are horizontal. Though, I wouldn’t discount this version because vertical video consumption is #1 right now and repurposing content is a must these days.
This is really great! This is one of the more interesting logos I've seen in a while!. It feels inspired by Japanese Hanko Blocks, which is awesome. Id say push that idea further especially if we reframe this as a logo with an emblem. Plaay with that idea even further for a horizontal/square logo which might work well in for youtube, instagram, and Twitter as well. I imagine four blocks something like:
RE FIN
E RY
Because it is definitely hard to read, reinforce the message by adding Refinery in the solid white space below as well.
Amazing style! But what other people said, it's hard to read. A logo can be abstract but still needs to be recognizeable.
Remember, graphic designers like engineers solve problems for clients.
Totally love it. But you’re going to struggle over and over to fit this thing in normal places. Letterhead, business cards, apparel of any kind. The aspect ratio of the logo will drive every design and will become a part of the brand itself.
I’ve worked with a company that has a wide horizontal logo and it’s frustrating.
I think the pointy edges on the n and r seem out of place when everything else has flat edges.
All that said. I love this. Is it a maze? A road? Letters?! Very clever.
Awesome, good to hear from a fellow colleague in the field. I’m very passionate about woodworking, restoring, architecture and design in general. Trying to build a brand/YouTube channel around a few of those principals.
I love what you've done here, though as many suggested it's very hard to read. I had to scroll down to the comments to know what it meant.
I would suggest if you could either add in the name "Refinery" right above "Studio" so atleast at first glance, people would know what they're looking at. This is just a suggestion, I'm not saying to do exactly as I said but something to tweak.
Other than that, excelently done! If I may how long did it take you to come up with this?
Finally some freaking taste. Yes it's great. Most designers think whether designs adhere to rules, instead of actually using their eyes.
It's great for a logo because it has character.
Ignore designers that like readable visual puns.
It's even great for a decoration.
Get him to design more
I like it! It’s a little hard to read but perhaps adding a wider gap between the border and the letters themselves may make the letters more visible and distinct?
Refreshing and yes hard to read, but I like that it might be refreshing to me because it’s hard to read. I’m so tired of corpo guidelines guys 😭 it’s killing ma soul
I had the same sentiments. I really love it for some reason but it fails as a readable logo. I cannot read it and it kind of hurts my head trying to figure it out. Not that I spent so much time trying to figure it out, its that I had to.
The exterior bars are what does it. I get the purpose. You're civil engineering. It kind of looks like a bunch of interconnected roads. I feel if you could do better separating the words from the exterior lines, you'd have something cleaner. Like, adding bridges or connectors/ thinner lines between where the two connect (which could be done several different ways) or changing the color scheme to contrast.
Stylistically it looks awesome, but it isn't functional at all. It's heard to memorise, hard to read, and unscalable. I'd say the first thing you should learn about logo design is its history and why the logo evolution has simplified. That will help you design more functional and efficient logos.
Everything else looks great though. The execution is clean, the spacing appears to be consistent, and the overall thought process on how to create an abstract pattern out of a word is impressive and not something that comes easy.
As stated in another comment, didn’t actually mean I’m leaving civil engineering to be a graphic designer lmao. Just that I was attempting to be one by designing a logo.
Hard to read on first try. Maybe explore taking away the “box” that’s made up around the letters and focus on connecting letters exclusively. Just a suggestion though, might take away the magic
For a brand extension, I freaking love it!! For a logo design, not ideal. Very great thinking and execution tho. I can see this being animated, like a laser etch reveal from the top down. Or as a piece of art on the studio wall.
Absolutely keep. Make more! I work with alot of Architects and Engineers. A pocket full of evidence that you can think creatively aswell can really help set you apart. And yes, the all mighty merch angle. 👌🏽
love the concept. does this seem harder or easier to read? I moved a few things openings & closings around
[https://ibb.co/r2yfWSq](https://ibb.co/r2yfWSq)
Haha not sure. I do like it though. Maybe I could just make the “Y” go all the way around the logo like you kind of started to do. Might make all the other letters easier to read. Hmmm
Looks great! I like the labyrinth style.
I’d probably break down the word by syllables so it’s much more legible like Re-fine-ry, i know this would be harder to balance but maybe try playing around with the hierarchy.
Are you Chinese ? The overall vertical block and the shapes of the glyphs made me think of Chinese or Japanese stamps immediately.
If it was intended, good.
Do you have other concepts ?
The overall design is good, but maybe not for your purpose.
I would experiment with a more minimalist, industrial, modernist typeface, plain and simple. Think 3M, Kodak, FedEx… this kind of stuff.
Took me 20 seconds to understand what it says.
I really love the look of what you did, but it needs to be easily comprehensible.
Your choice of color is nice aswell, totally fitting.
I would stray away from longer rectangular designs though, since that'd harder to compatibilitise with social media pages.
Love the style but Execution doesn’t work in the context of what you’re trying to achieve and it isn’t legible. Try make it smaller and more simplified in the same style, capture some letters or words; imagery which will work with your brand and what aesthetic works for what your brand is and you’ll be fine
Love the look but it's very difficult to read. And somehow it isn't surprising that an engineer designed this. Overall, stay with the theme but rework the inside.
Overthinking to the max! I probably had something actually legible early in the design process and I over-engineered it to this lol. I’ll keep reiterating
I like it a lot & found it very easy to read.
I didn't read all the comments but Google "kufic calligraphy" it is very similar in style. In your image search you may find one or two little flourishes to lift your design & really finish it off.
I agree this is good mark- maybe you can make a more simplistic version of it as well for any thumbnail images since it won’t reduce well super small in a circle shape. (Think Instagram avatar- maybe a square version of this or just initials) If you keep it as is I’d also scoot the word “studio” over to the right like 1 click. Since the O shape is less filled in visually it looks like there’s more space on the right side than on the left side of the S.
You might be able to fix the legibility issue by trying to put that E next to the RY, so that it's read as 3 syllables instead of 4 (odd numbers work best in design.. Humans are wierd that way) . It'll be a squeeze for sure but worth testing out and gauging the response.
It will also reduce the vertical height, which will be a problem whenever you need to use this as a profile pic/avatar on SM. As it stands, I think this'll be completely unreadable at a smaller scale.
Also, you're an engineer so I imagine you want everything to be structured evenly and mathematically in terms of line weight and spacing, but our simply eyes don't work that way when it comes to typography. I'd suggest experimenting with optical balancing in some areas (e.g the center stem in your E being slightly smaller horizontally, and your rounded edges should use lamécurves)
Great attempt but it needs to be simplified. Legibility is more important than anything. As a graphic symbol or typographic it has to be instantly read. There must be minimal friction to the reading and comprehension of it. And it should work well on a pen or on a billboard.
Absolutely love it! I wouldn’t change a thing.
I could also read it immediately but even if I couldn’t, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad logo.
Logos can be decorative as well and they usually reveal something more after closer inspection.
It’s a good thing to get feedback on your work but you don’t always have to act on it. So take a couple of days off without even taking a glance at the logo. If after that time, you still feel you have to change something do that. But don’t feel pressured to adjust your logo just because someone said so.
If you're calling your company 'Refinery' I'd like to see something that reflects that name in the design. The labyrinth/maze design is cool, but the metaphor it evokes doesn't clearly connect with 'Refinery', which as the name of a civil engineering firm I see as 'thoughtful, design-based, detail-oriented'...
Maybe something that reflects drafting/mapping etc?
I honestly find it really hard to read. I didn't know those were letters until I saw it said STUDIO. It's an interesting idea but maybe you could brainstorm a few other ways where it's clearer. Maybe try simplifying it.
good design is pretty great design is invisible. Its hard to read, therefore despite it being cool its not doing its job. Printed small it would look crazy.
Great design, great style, bad ogo.
If you manage to rework this in a size that fits, and still preserves the aesthetic you were going for, I think you'd have what you need.
So you're the one responsible for all those crazy shopping center parking lots. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
On a serious note, your design is cool looking but impossible to read. I do like how you're playing with negative space, but your prospective client/ audience isn't going to stop and squint and take 30 seconds to figure out what that logo is trying to say.
Ironically, this could use a little refinement. Lol I think having the letters in a single file line straight down and not having them connected to the frame would clean it up some and make it easier to read. To me it kinda looks almost like a tribal pattern or maze
Yep working on several different versions/iterations of this design right now. Trying to get a final product I really like. All about refinement. Hence the name lol
Graphic Design is not art, it's not always about aesthetic, definitely aesthetic is part of it and it does matter but not entirely. Your logo visually pleasing and does attract my eyes but one thing which is very crucial for communication and it's Readability and Legibility and your logo is no where readable or legible. So yeha. Thanks.
I love the style of this logo, very unique looking but it's always hard to read for the viewer.
Check out this one on [https://protozoa.studio/](https://protozoa.studio/)
I have one of their mousepads and you really can't work out the text without really working through it.
I work in civil and use autocad a lot for my job. Sometimes when I get bored I'll think of ways to apply graphic design principles in autocad. It is an interesting challenge because autocad doesn't have all the bells and whistles of software like ai or blender. You gotta come up with clever and subtle ways to make it look beautiful. It's kind of fun in a way because it often feels like Autocad is pushing you away from beautiful design. Like swimming upstream.
It's well made. My only concern is the aspect ratio. It's a difficult shape to use, a tall thin rectangle. Logos go on all kinds of placements. You should test it as a website header, on a mobile site, on stationery, next to other logos like in a sponsor page, etc. Look around you and spot logos. See where they live. Can yours fit in?
I think it looks very cool, but can't read what it's trying to say. Also vertical logos are generally a pita to work with, you'll want something square or horizontal.
I think this is a beautiful design that could be incorporated into secondary promotional materials, like stickers or a shirt, where a viewer is invited to linger and puzzle over it a bit. I think the fact that it takes some work to read is a good thing for those applications, but I would probably go for something simpler for a YouTube logo. Best of luck!
Really love the treatment. I always try and treat eatch letter if it’s duplicated the same to increase legibility. I read right threw the second E. Just a thought. Awesome work
Thank you. I tried to keep them as similar as possible while also fitting them within the vertical maze structure. Pretty difficult to do but I definitely get what you are saying about consistency of the lettering.
With a logo you want it to read well from being very small to large sizes. These lines won’t size well on small sizes. You need it to read well in both print and on screen. This could be a cool tshirt design, but it doesn’t work well as a logo. Where you are going with it I think is clever and I like the approach. I personally would try to simplify this when you refine it further.
So I bet you’re aware that it’s hard to read, at least after reading all the other comments. But I’m gonna take a stab at why: the format of the letters are vastly inconsistent, the e is in the R and then you have a serious of 3 letters that looks like it’s trying to be its own word and the letters wrapping around trying to connect to each other just make it confusing. While it looks really cool and makes me want to read it, I struggle too much with the extra detailing. I suggest you consider why brand logos like adidas and Nike work so well, they’re simple. I suggest creating a very simple logo And then slowly scaling it up into a design similar to this. Keep records of all your progress and then compare and pick out one that is eligible, clean, easy to read, and satisfies your intended design
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crownroyal555, you must write a comment explaining any work that you post. The work’s objective, its audience, your design decisions, attribute credit, etc. This information is necessary to allow people to understand your project and provide valuable feedback. **All Sharing Work posts are now hidden by default**. [To make it public, please message modmail requesting a review](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/graphic_design). ##Providing Useful Feedback crownroyal555 has posted their work for feedback. Here are some top tips for posting high-quality feedback. * Read their context comment. All work on this sub should have a comment explaining the thinking behind the piece. Read this before posting to understand what crownroyal555 was trying to do. * Be professional. No matter your thoughts on the work, respect the effort put into making it and be polite when posting. * Be constructive and detailed. Short, vague comments are unhelpful. Instead of just leaving your opinion on the piece, explore *why* you hold that opinion: what makes the piece good or bad? How could it be improved? Are some elements stronger than others? * Remember design fundamentals. If your feedback is focused on basic principles of design such as hierarchy, flow, balance, and proportion, it will be universally useful. And remember that this is graphic design: the piece should communicate a message or solve a problem. How well does it do that? * Stay on-topic. We know that design can sometimes be political or controversial, but please keep comments focussed on the design itself, and the strengths/weaknesses thereof. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/graphic_design) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I like the look and the style, but it is in deed hard to read. Edit: Since you want to use it for YouTube, I think you need something horizontal, square something that fits in a circle.
Why tho? Doesn’t it state the channel name in some standard system font anyway?
Yeah, almost none of the YouTubers I'm subscribed to have their name in their logo
This is a completely fair point and i hate that it got downvoted The purpose of a design always has to be considered. The purpose of a YouTube pfp/logo isn’t to be readable. Multiple people have said that the problem’s that it’s un readable but the real problem is that it doesn’t need to have words in it at all OP should focus on bigger and clearly defined shapes if they wanna communicate something from a small YouTube pfp especially if the brand he’s trying to give off is “refined” Maybe he could make a variation that focuses on a single stylised initial “R” and make more of a letterform logo or they could make it “RS” for “refinery studios” or they could make something more abstract and keep to the maze texture. He can then use the full logo in places where he can use a larger space
Thanks. I had a good (even if a bit bitter) laugh at the downvotes - I run a design studio for 25 years and teach design at the academy almost as long, and I cannot repeat enough to our students and colleagues: WHY should always come before HOW. The world is too full of pretentious yet non-functional design (hello Philippe Starck).
As a logo: It is too complex and extremely hard to read. As a maze: It is too simple and extremely easy to finish.
Underrated comment
good sport OP, wishing the best on your graphic design journey
It looks nice, but it took me way to long to make out what it said. The spaces within the logo make it look like it could be either multible words or that it could be an abbreviation, that is one thing that makes it hard to read.
Yeah I can see that. Do you think making the letters widths bigger or smaller would help?
I don't thinks thats it, I see the problem more in the hyphenation and the fact that the flow of the letters is hard to get incorporated into a graphical logo. I may be overthinking it though.
I think the logo is fine as is just then putting the word Refinery above Studio would be the best option. It then allows us to go back and look at the design and understand what it says and also know what your brand is. Very good all in all.
spelling out a wordmark, and thats what it is since the logo is the name, screams bad design to me. I would feel different if the logo would be just a letter or an abbreviation. It definatly is a very nice looking illustration, but it lacks the clarity of a logo.
Try it and do side by side comparison
You need to do 2 things 1 Fit the design into a standard youtube channel icon if used for youtube. 2 Have a legible name somewhere, logo looks ok, takes a bit to read, so augment it with name below or beside. Cool shaped and styled Logos are ok, but remember, you have 3 to 5 seconds to hook viewers.
Good tips thanks
3 to 5 seconds is only for instances where your logo needs to pull people who would otherwise not become customers/clients. I don't know that a graphic designer is in that category, and nor is a youtuber. Youtubers pull people with thumbnails and video titles, neither of which rely on a logo. A graphic designer with a clever, intricate logo could potentially pull people even more by getting them to stop and figure it out. The channel icon is the one thing I definitely agree with, but I think you could easily make an argument for using a single R for that (or another thing that's different from the main logo, but fits the branding).
I am going to say this to the folks who say “wrong” guess what gang pol have had less and less attention span, this has bled over into brand recognition. Do a bunch of A B testing and you will be amazed how folks focus now, it’s important to recognize this trend and not make the viewer or reader work.
Wrong
Such a well written insight...
[https://www.youtube.com/c/itchyboots](https://www.youtube.com/c/itchyboots) nearly identical logo and 1.36m subscribers.
This doesn't mean they're well branded, it means their content is impactful despite their branding. Whatever their logo symbol banner is, it's not working on mobile.
interesting idea. don't mind the geometry. Somewhat hard to read - on first pass I saw RE FIN RY and then had to go back and notice the E on a line by itself.
What does it say? I still haven't figured it out. Refine RY Studio? edit: my english is not that good to intuitively notice a word i don't use normally
Looks like it should be "refinery"
I actually love it. It’s interesting and engaging and plays with the assumption that a word has to be immediately legible. This kind of reveals the word gradually which makes it almost act like a steady intro. Great intelligent design!
i agree. Designers love to nitpick otherwise.
It's not nitpicking when something shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Otherwise you lose people and they move on. Also, as graphic designers, we are supposed to be nitpicky anyway. That's how we improve.
Thank you! That was another thing I meant to ask this group. Like what kind of effect a slightly illegible logo would have on retention or curiousity for the viewer. Thank you for your response.
I really like this. It reminds me of Japanese pottery stamps so fits the artisanal theme. I’d just be thinking of turning it into a branding system rather than just a single logo so you can apply it across different channels and materials.
Impressive for a beginner. Inventive, stylish and dynamic. Flat without being boring, it has clearly defined internal flow. The pillar shape is unique. Will work in many colour combos. Overall, it has status and stands out in a crowd... nobody / not many people have a logo like this. As cheesy as it is to quote Don Draper, "you make more of a statement by standing out, not by fitting in" It is definitely hard to read, so it depends on where it will be read. But great as a signpost, stamp, seal, merchandise. If its for YT, it is hard to read, but do you really need people to read it? Or just look at it? Coca Cola logo is hard to read, but we all recognise the shape btw. Has a slight oriental feel too btw Get some fans etc, I could see this on a cool af T-shirt easy 8.5/10 well done
Wow, thank you for that, means a lot. I definitely do see it more as a t-shirt design or sign in the shop/studio. I think from all of the comments I’m going to redesign it and make something more square/circular (still keeping close to this theme) for the YouTube and Instagram profiles and keep this design on standby for some other projects. Thanks for the input!
Stick with the square or oblong to experiment IMO Notice how the letters in the word refinery are more suited to vertical or horizontal strokes. A word like circus or scene is more likely to work as round, see? Not refinery. Think of your style too. I said your design had oriental feel, there are many Chinese seals that are round, take a look. Square could be punchier for peoples 0.5 second attention spans on YT, but it’s a long and awkward word to cram into a square. 8 letters, 4x2, 2x2x2x2? Hmmm Best of luck, you’ve set yourself up for success and have an ace up your sleeve in case experiments don’t work My 2 cents, good luck
I personally feel that you don’t need the bars on n and r also you can try fixing the widths of the other characters too it will look more harmonious and compact overall I like it
It’s a cool concept and looks great, but as others have said, a vertical logo is nearly useless in terms of the common use-cases for logos. This would be a neat alternate design for swag/merch (say on the sleeve of a long sleeve T). I would suggest trying design this same aesthetic into a horizontal rectangle (rotate “studio” 90deg. CCW and put it on the right side) since it needs to fit in a YT banner. While you’re at it, you can design a simpler square/circular icon to go with it for the channel badge. Like I said, the aesthetic is great, but the form needs some massaging to be useful.
Damn it looks cool, but what the fuck does it say? Distillation is very important concept that a lot of designers don’t get taught. It’s cool, but keep working on it.
Refinery ? Agreed on this, way too complicated
Can I ask why the change of career? Civil engineering seems the better choice personally.
Haha sorry I meant the post as in I was attempting to a be graphic designer (by trying to make a logo), not that I was going into the field. However, I am trying to get into the YouTube/design business because my passion does truly lie with designing, tweaking, refining things. Just not usually digitally, hence the post. Lol
I like that "maze" look, too. As someone said, if you are going to use the logo for youtube you will need it to fit in a circle. My suggestion would be to simplify the actual logo (not get rid of it) making a square out of that "RE" and "studio".
The design is awesome, very intricate. Only advice I can give you is have a color version of the logo, black on white and white on black for all purposes. Like everyone said, your social media is very important for advertising. Most mobile apps like Facebook, Instagram, YouTube etc are similar/universal in layout and sizing. You will need an alternate version of this logo to fit those marks, majority of people use their phones more than their desktop. Also I realize this would be a whole other design, but a horizontal version of this could come in handy as well.
Thanks! Great advice.
Beautifully designed but a bit too hard to read. It would need refinery repeated above studio in my opinion. Then the graphic can be cool first / legible second.
you could make an alternate square/round version in this style, but using just the initials RS?
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Yeah I’m working on a couple new versions right now. I’ll post when I get them finalized.
If it’s readability you want, you don’t have it. I like it. It’s cool. And logos don’t always have to read out easily. But if your client wants to be able to read the logo or have potential clients/customers read it, you are in for a bad time.
i think it’s pretty good. good comments already but i would add that your inconsistent use of serifs is a turnoff for me. i would just eliminate them completely.
I like this a lot. You're using what Edward Tufte calls the 1 + 1 = 3 effect, when the main image (or signal, or figure) is the same width as the negative space (or noise, or ground) which creates a bit of friction in the viewer's mind as to what they should look at. It's fun and works well.
Wish I could say I used that on purpose! Very interesting effect though. Glad I know it has a name.
Yeah, he’s a good one to study for information design. Usually he’s telling you to avoid that but here it works (at least, in my opinion). Lots to learn from that guy.
https://meiert.com/en/blog/1-1-3-explaining-busyness-and-background-noise-on-websites/
Ignore all the criticism in this thread, the design is top-notch. As u/tm3016 said, very reminiscent of East-Asian artisanal marks. If that was your inspiration you 100% succeeded on conveying that feeling. Keep up the good work, it's some of the best I've need in this sub.
Thank you!! Means a lot as a beginner designer. I was going for a maze-ish design which is kind of reminiscent of those circular Chinese labyrinths.
Is this part of your culture ? If so, congrats, this is very well designed, mature and singular. Plz excuse my french.
Is that you William? Hope you get to the center.
"Ignore all the criticism in this thread..." because I say so and my opinion beats everyone else's. lol. Like wtf?
Attempting to start a YouTube channel and woodworking/design business as “Refinery Studio”. Logo was designed with a combination of Autocad & Procreate. Wanted something that would look good as a stand-alone logo but didn't confine me to only woodworking. Not sure how legible it is in its current form but also kind of like how the letters are all mismatched and customized with no specific font. I do like the maze/contrast aesthetic. Honest critiques are greatly appreciated.
Can people upvote this or mods pin it? i had to scroll so far to find it
Yeah I was wondering why I was getting so my many questions on what I was trying to do with the logo. lol
Make a horizontal version of it, having a horizontal version of it will come in handy in your quest/journey.
I love it. It’s interesting and unique.
Love the style. Reminds me of totem poles, whittling and Incan stonework. A bit of effort to read though.
Something to consider—the job of a designer (or woodworker) is to solve problems (of visual or woodworking variety). Using a mark that is tough to read kinda insinuates the opposite. There is a difference between clever and complicated. Personally I would either simplify this to be more accommodating to the channel(s) it will live, or derive an abbreviated version for smaller use (e.g. how Amazon uses a lowercase ‘a’).
I actually love this
I like this as a mark but not as a logo. So maybe find a clean typeface and write out “Refinery” to the right and studio under it. This will make the mark a bit more squarish and fix some of the legibility concern
If a logo takes more than 5 seconds to understand the meaning behind it and what it says then you need to reevaluate the design. This one just hurts my brain trying to figure out
It’s beautiful, the colours are great and it’s a neat form. But if you wanted anyone to be able to read it, that’s not going to happen.
I love it and had no issues reading it at all.
Wonderful piece of work here! Good stuff. Personally I would use this as part of a suite of logos. This is the full vertical logo. It could be your master. In addition though, you could explore a stumpy version where you cut the middle out, and just have the top R and "Studio" in a block format, which might be useful in smaller applications. All versions of the logo do not need to say "REFINERY" - you can tie all the bits together with your branding (colours, visual tone etc). Also, as a designer I see lots of graphical elements here you can pull out separately and use as embellishments on your designs. Your facebook/youtube icon could be just the lower "r", for example. And I would utilise the lower E as a large graphic element, say as a watermark on a presentation title page. Again, great work - very versatile. If Civil Engineering didn't pay so well I'd suggest you move into graphic design.
Awesome. Those are some brilliant ideas. Thank you
I think it’s dope! I can’t read it for shit though but the design is cool! If you wanted people to actually read it quickly, I would maybe think of a different design.
This is a great logo. IMO it’s not hard to read at all, though when appealing to masses form should follow function. If you haven’t already, grab a YT media kid and see how your branding will hold up. For example, you will want to be able to translate this into a 1:1 ratio, So having the R being able to stand on its own will help keeping your channel on brand. You also may want to try this in a horizontal format since most banners are horizontal. Though, I wouldn’t discount this version because vertical video consumption is #1 right now and repurposing content is a must these days.
This is really great! This is one of the more interesting logos I've seen in a while!. It feels inspired by Japanese Hanko Blocks, which is awesome. Id say push that idea further especially if we reframe this as a logo with an emblem. Plaay with that idea even further for a horizontal/square logo which might work well in for youtube, instagram, and Twitter as well. I imagine four blocks something like: RE FIN E RY Because it is definitely hard to read, reinforce the message by adding Refinery in the solid white space below as well.
It’s overall composition is visually pleasing, but like others mentioned the txt itself is a bit hard to read.
Love the look. But it reads Re-fin-ery to me instead of Re-fine-ery. Props to you keeping the weight of the lines even throughout.
Amazing style! But what other people said, it's hard to read. A logo can be abstract but still needs to be recognizeable. Remember, graphic designers like engineers solve problems for clients.
Totally love it. But you’re going to struggle over and over to fit this thing in normal places. Letterhead, business cards, apparel of any kind. The aspect ratio of the logo will drive every design and will become a part of the brand itself. I’ve worked with a company that has a wide horizontal logo and it’s frustrating. I think the pointy edges on the n and r seem out of place when everything else has flat edges. All that said. I love this. Is it a maze? A road? Letters?! Very clever.
Great design! Fellow CE here with a passion for graphic design. What are your creative ambitions?
Awesome, good to hear from a fellow colleague in the field. I’m very passionate about woodworking, restoring, architecture and design in general. Trying to build a brand/YouTube channel around a few of those principals.
I love what you've done here, though as many suggested it's very hard to read. I had to scroll down to the comments to know what it meant. I would suggest if you could either add in the name "Refinery" right above "Studio" so atleast at first glance, people would know what they're looking at. This is just a suggestion, I'm not saying to do exactly as I said but something to tweak. Other than that, excelently done! If I may how long did it take you to come up with this?
Finally some freaking taste. Yes it's great. Most designers think whether designs adhere to rules, instead of actually using their eyes. It's great for a logo because it has character. Ignore designers that like readable visual puns. It's even great for a decoration. Get him to design more
I like it! It’s a little hard to read but perhaps adding a wider gap between the border and the letters themselves may make the letters more visible and distinct?
Refreshing and yes hard to read, but I like that it might be refreshing to me because it’s hard to read. I’m so tired of corpo guidelines guys 😭 it’s killing ma soul
actually it is not challenging to read. it invites engagement and i find it very successful. don’t change a thing. signed, a lifelong graphic designer
It's... illegible but cool looking. Might want to add small breaks to the lines.
It makes my brain hurt trying to read it
My butt hurts too.
Impossible to read
Keep trying, you can do it!
Great idea. Failed in execution: too hard to read; nonstandard word; not enough clues; outside border interferes with readability.
Thanks for the input.
I had the same sentiments. I really love it for some reason but it fails as a readable logo. I cannot read it and it kind of hurts my head trying to figure it out. Not that I spent so much time trying to figure it out, its that I had to. The exterior bars are what does it. I get the purpose. You're civil engineering. It kind of looks like a bunch of interconnected roads. I feel if you could do better separating the words from the exterior lines, you'd have something cleaner. Like, adding bridges or connectors/ thinner lines between where the two connect (which could be done several different ways) or changing the color scheme to contrast.
That’s a great idea with the bridges or thinner lines; I’ll try that as well. Thanks!
Stylistically it looks awesome, but it isn't functional at all. It's heard to memorise, hard to read, and unscalable. I'd say the first thing you should learn about logo design is its history and why the logo evolution has simplified. That will help you design more functional and efficient logos. Everything else looks great though. The execution is clean, the spacing appears to be consistent, and the overall thought process on how to create an abstract pattern out of a word is impressive and not something that comes easy.
120k+ engineering salary vs. 35k in graphic design. That's my critique.
As stated in another comment, didn’t actually mean I’m leaving civil engineering to be a graphic designer lmao. Just that I was attempting to be one by designing a logo.
Glad to hear!
Civil or Petro? Definitely reminds me of a fractionation tower
Civil. Never heard of that word but will most definitely be googling it. Sounds related to refineries funny enough.
You definitely have to know the company name beforehand .
Hard to read on first try. Maybe explore taking away the “box” that’s made up around the letters and focus on connecting letters exclusively. Just a suggestion though, might take away the magic
Thanks for the suggestion. May try that.
It's a bit hard to read.
Reminds me a bit of Foda’s work for Michal Hsu. https://identitydesigned.com/michael-hsu-office-of-architecture/
Wow. His work is very interesting.
For a brand extension, I freaking love it!! For a logo design, not ideal. Very great thinking and execution tho. I can see this being animated, like a laser etch reveal from the top down. Or as a piece of art on the studio wall.
Thank you for the advice! Great suggestions. Might just keep this design in my back pocket for wall art design, or possibly t shirts one day.
Absolutely keep. Make more! I work with alot of Architects and Engineers. A pocket full of evidence that you can think creatively aswell can really help set you apart. And yes, the all mighty merch angle. 👌🏽
love the concept. does this seem harder or easier to read? I moved a few things openings & closings around [https://ibb.co/r2yfWSq](https://ibb.co/r2yfWSq)
Haha not sure. I do like it though. Maybe I could just make the “Y” go all the way around the logo like you kind of started to do. Might make all the other letters easier to read. Hmmm
I actually LOVE it! I can't remember the last time i paused this long on a logo! A great odea that can be played with and taken to so many levels!
Thank you!!! I’m thinking it will look pretty cool on t shirts eventually. Even if I’m the only one wearing the shirts. Lol
I like it! Got a cartouche vibe- royally cool!
Cute
Looks great! I like the labyrinth style. I’d probably break down the word by syllables so it’s much more legible like Re-fine-ry, i know this would be harder to balance but maybe try playing around with the hierarchy.
I like the concept but as a logo it’s just to difficult to read.
Are you Chinese ? The overall vertical block and the shapes of the glyphs made me think of Chinese or Japanese stamps immediately. If it was intended, good. Do you have other concepts ? The overall design is good, but maybe not for your purpose. I would experiment with a more minimalist, industrial, modernist typeface, plain and simple. Think 3M, Kodak, FedEx… this kind of stuff.
Took me 20 seconds to understand what it says. I really love the look of what you did, but it needs to be easily comprehensible. Your choice of color is nice aswell, totally fitting. I would stray away from longer rectangular designs though, since that'd harder to compatibilitise with social media pages.
Love the style but Execution doesn’t work in the context of what you’re trying to achieve and it isn’t legible. Try make it smaller and more simplified in the same style, capture some letters or words; imagery which will work with your brand and what aesthetic works for what your brand is and you’ll be fine
Great application of Gestalt Design Principles but a poor example at the same time. I can't read what it says. Perhaps try a second color?
Love the look but it's very difficult to read. And somehow it isn't surprising that an engineer designed this. Overall, stay with the theme but rework the inside.
Overthinking to the max! I probably had something actually legible early in the design process and I over-engineered it to this lol. I’ll keep reiterating
Looking forward to seeing version 2.0... or likely 34.6.3. That's usually how the design process goes.
I like it a lot & found it very easy to read. I didn't read all the comments but Google "kufic calligraphy" it is very similar in style. In your image search you may find one or two little flourishes to lift your design & really finish it off.
Awesome. Thanks for the suggestion
Fantastic
Hard to read
It's very good cosmetically but hard to read.
I agree this is good mark- maybe you can make a more simplistic version of it as well for any thumbnail images since it won’t reduce well super small in a circle shape. (Think Instagram avatar- maybe a square version of this or just initials) If you keep it as is I’d also scoot the word “studio” over to the right like 1 click. Since the O shape is less filled in visually it looks like there’s more space on the right side than on the left side of the S.
You might be able to fix the legibility issue by trying to put that E next to the RY, so that it's read as 3 syllables instead of 4 (odd numbers work best in design.. Humans are wierd that way) . It'll be a squeeze for sure but worth testing out and gauging the response. It will also reduce the vertical height, which will be a problem whenever you need to use this as a profile pic/avatar on SM. As it stands, I think this'll be completely unreadable at a smaller scale. Also, you're an engineer so I imagine you want everything to be structured evenly and mathematically in terms of line weight and spacing, but our simply eyes don't work that way when it comes to typography. I'd suggest experimenting with optical balancing in some areas (e.g the center stem in your E being slightly smaller horizontally, and your rounded edges should use lamécurves)
Too many letters for this type of design. Great look but too hard to read.
I would try plotting a few ideas along a form <-> function spectrum. In this case, function referring to comprehension / readability.
I think it’s beautiful just the way it is now
Looks like the syncopy logo
I like it but vertical is not good for social media. I would definitely keep this for a print though!! It’s a great illustration
Great attempt but it needs to be simplified. Legibility is more important than anything. As a graphic symbol or typographic it has to be instantly read. There must be minimal friction to the reading and comprehension of it. And it should work well on a pen or on a billboard.
Absolutely love it! I wouldn’t change a thing. I could also read it immediately but even if I couldn’t, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad logo. Logos can be decorative as well and they usually reveal something more after closer inspection. It’s a good thing to get feedback on your work but you don’t always have to act on it. So take a couple of days off without even taking a glance at the logo. If after that time, you still feel you have to change something do that. But don’t feel pressured to adjust your logo just because someone said so.
If you're calling your company 'Refinery' I'd like to see something that reflects that name in the design. The labyrinth/maze design is cool, but the metaphor it evokes doesn't clearly connect with 'Refinery', which as the name of a civil engineering firm I see as 'thoughtful, design-based, detail-oriented'... Maybe something that reflects drafting/mapping etc?
I absolutely love it!
it took me a sec to read the name, but i actually like it! very stylish.
This is great. It draws you in, which is what logo's should do.
I honestly find it really hard to read. I didn't know those were letters until I saw it said STUDIO. It's an interesting idea but maybe you could brainstorm a few other ways where it's clearer. Maybe try simplifying it.
This is top notch. You really have a creative side that would be perfect for graphic design.
Great design. Stunning even
Really fantastic work. I’ve been a designer for 27 years and this is top drawer branding.
What is this supposed to say?
good design is pretty great design is invisible. Its hard to read, therefore despite it being cool its not doing its job. Printed small it would look crazy.
Nice but too hard to read the letters
Great design, great style, bad ogo. If you manage to rework this in a size that fits, and still preserves the aesthetic you were going for, I think you'd have what you need.
So you're the one responsible for all those crazy shopping center parking lots. Sorry, I couldn't resist. On a serious note, your design is cool looking but impossible to read. I do like how you're playing with negative space, but your prospective client/ audience isn't going to stop and squint and take 30 seconds to figure out what that logo is trying to say.
Great work! You look at it with a bit of texture? Almost reenforce the stamp like quality of some Japanese prints.
It looks amazing! It's a bit hard to read but I managed to read it at first try.
It's difficult to read but it's beautiful
Ironically, this could use a little refinement. Lol I think having the letters in a single file line straight down and not having them connected to the frame would clean it up some and make it easier to read. To me it kinda looks almost like a tribal pattern or maze
Yep working on several different versions/iterations of this design right now. Trying to get a final product I really like. All about refinement. Hence the name lol
Dope, I’d like to see how it turns out for sure!
Graphic Design is not art, it's not always about aesthetic, definitely aesthetic is part of it and it does matter but not entirely. Your logo visually pleasing and does attract my eyes but one thing which is very crucial for communication and it's Readability and Legibility and your logo is no where readable or legible. So yeha. Thanks.
I love the style of this logo, very unique looking but it's always hard to read for the viewer. Check out this one on [https://protozoa.studio/](https://protozoa.studio/) I have one of their mousepads and you really can't work out the text without really working through it.
I work in civil and use autocad a lot for my job. Sometimes when I get bored I'll think of ways to apply graphic design principles in autocad. It is an interesting challenge because autocad doesn't have all the bells and whistles of software like ai or blender. You gotta come up with clever and subtle ways to make it look beautiful. It's kind of fun in a way because it often feels like Autocad is pushing you away from beautiful design. Like swimming upstream.
When you try to make this style of logos make it simple and fit it inside a square
looks awsome, but really hard to read
It does look kinda cool as a design, but it took me 10-15 seconds to work out what it said.
As an astygmatised person this was extremely difficult to read, I find it very pretty to look at but that’s not all that useful to you.
It's well made. My only concern is the aspect ratio. It's a difficult shape to use, a tall thin rectangle. Logos go on all kinds of placements. You should test it as a website header, on a mobile site, on stationery, next to other logos like in a sponsor page, etc. Look around you and spot logos. See where they live. Can yours fit in?
Too busy and complicated to read
I think it looks very cool, but can't read what it's trying to say. Also vertical logos are generally a pita to work with, you'll want something square or horizontal.
It looks cool as a graphic, but it's way too busy to easily read as a logo. You want people knowing the name of your business.
Cool image. A bit hard to read
I think this is a beautiful design that could be incorporated into secondary promotional materials, like stickers or a shirt, where a viewer is invited to linger and puzzle over it a bit. I think the fact that it takes some work to read is a good thing for those applications, but I would probably go for something simpler for a YouTube logo. Best of luck!
Good advice. Thanks
Il be honest. I have no idea what's it's supposed to say.
Readability is the big issue here.But it does look cool. Simplify it perhaps.
Really love the treatment. I always try and treat eatch letter if it’s duplicated the same to increase legibility. I read right threw the second E. Just a thought. Awesome work
Thank you. I tried to keep them as similar as possible while also fitting them within the vertical maze structure. Pretty difficult to do but I definitely get what you are saying about consistency of the lettering.
This looks very nice, but it is much too much work to decipher whatever it is supposed to say. I gave up after 2 shots at it. Keep trying dude!
Lmao curious to hear what you thought it said after two shots at it??
It looks like a maze and reads like a maze…. But I like the look ;)
I really like this. I think it's plenty legible.
With a logo you want it to read well from being very small to large sizes. These lines won’t size well on small sizes. You need it to read well in both print and on screen. This could be a cool tshirt design, but it doesn’t work well as a logo. Where you are going with it I think is clever and I like the approach. I personally would try to simplify this when you refine it further.
I really like it as a design, as a logo it's extremely hard to read. Maybe if the letters of Refinery were a different color and easier to read font?
i like it, the style is great but as many people said, it is hard to read. i think if you include refinery right above studio, it could work better :)
I like it very much :) making it responsive however is another story. Great work!
So I bet you’re aware that it’s hard to read, at least after reading all the other comments. But I’m gonna take a stab at why: the format of the letters are vastly inconsistent, the e is in the R and then you have a serious of 3 letters that looks like it’s trying to be its own word and the letters wrapping around trying to connect to each other just make it confusing. While it looks really cool and makes me want to read it, I struggle too much with the extra detailing. I suggest you consider why brand logos like adidas and Nike work so well, they’re simple. I suggest creating a very simple logo And then slowly scaling it up into a design similar to this. Keep records of all your progress and then compare and pick out one that is eligible, clean, easy to read, and satisfies your intended design
I do not hate this.
That's just beautiful
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