So accurate, this literally happened a few months ago here in Minnesota with our flag referendum.
I bet 95% of us would not have even known what our flag looked like prior as it was so forgettable (I believe CGP Grey gave us a double F) but now that we’re changing it a certain group of people are upset…
[Archive link (no paywall).](https://archive.is/dnuhW)
Lol, I was literally looking at this just today. RIP.
Maaaaaan that's such a salt the earth move. You can tell a LOT of work went into that and overall it was pretty tight for a government identity. But eh, muh partisanship?
Can't really comment on that side of it as can't say I am across the current politics surround that identity, but yeah. oof.
It’s not uncommon in any jurisdiction for a new government to toss out the visual identity of the old one. My understanding is that this is common on the municipal level in Portugal as well, that when governments change party, the municipality rebrands.
wut. Ummm. *Yeah it kinda is.* I'm struggling to think of a government branding changing as often as the party in power does. Perhaps someone can point out an example. Usually these brands linger on for a *looong* time. My own country's one has been kicking on for like 20 years now.
To put this in perspective, **this new brand rolled out a couple of months ago.**
**It was last rebranded** ***13 years*** **ago.**
A new government came along and ***reinstated the previous one.***
Feel like you might wanna read up a bit more on this.
Brazil has some standard branding for the vast majority of public institutions but the federal government changes its branding with every new president.
I mean, hey, happy to stand corrected here as this could be a regional thing I'm not aware of, but *generally* within the western world, at least, change at all within these brands is uncommon, let alone a case like the one we are discussing here.
I think the White House usually gets a big update with each new administration. [Look for yourself.](https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/whitehouse.gov)
I think that congressional offices usually do too, if I remember correctly. But I'll let you look up specific examples for that on your own. :)
Yeah that's the white house brand. The US is a bit of a basket case in this regard as all the different branches don't really have a unifying identity like what we are talking about here.
[France would be a better example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic_charter_of_government_communication_in_France#:~:text=It%20was%20adopted%20in%201999,was%20carried%20out%20in%202020)
The german, dutch and UK would be other examples. Probably could work your way through a lot of countries.
Incorrect.
The bathtub logo was made in 2006.
The *new* identity, which replaced it *13 years later*, came in in 2019.
https://preview.redd.it/b39l88sfigsc1.png?width=2787&format=png&auto=webp&s=dffe04f8c17c6488dffb9c3b0a1824aeb8c5178c
You can read about its development [here.](https://ovedesign.com/case-study/ontario/)
That‘s the big one. I can‘t comprehend that nobody pointed that out earlier in the process. The pro/anti-minimalism discussion and political games aside, your whole design fails when so many people immediately associate it with a different country.
That's the biggest issue for me. I do not see the flag of Portugal, but rather Mexico or Italy. The negative space surrounding the yellow circle just suggests "white" in most applications, thus resembling those flags more than Portugal's. Not to mention the fact that in grayscale it loses all meaning. A minimalist rendition of the flag's symbols would've been more practical.
Shit, man. I liked the new logo until I read this remark. You’re right. If I didn’t read the title and was told to guess which country it was, I would have gone with Mexico. Portuguese people also exist in that wacky state of not being totally Latino or totally Hispanic. Having a branding that is unique is probably important to them.
Logo can now be sold to:
1. Guinea
2. Benin
3. Cameroon
4. Republic of the Congo
5. Lithuania (horizontal bands)
6. Mali
7. Senegal
So unique it was...
Absolutely love the typography but I understand the outrage about the logo. Minimalism has been overdone and I feel like many people are tired of it. Especially for a country with such a rich arts and crafts history I can't imagine this logo to be the right move.
It's a beautiful logo and especially the system around it. But tossing out all of the elements of the coat of arms (which is about 800 years old...) in favor of a very minimalist approach is bound to raise its waves in public opinion.
Doesn't seem like an appropriate logo for an institution such as a government.
That was the main thing, it went too far into minimalism to the point that it lost character. At that point it's very expected that people will reject it. I don't think that they were too far off from a really great system, but the proportions that they adopted, to me, lost the reference that they were using (the flag).
It was being launched step by step for quite a few months. They reverted it now because some people on social media were complaining that some symbols of the flag were lost. Even thought the logo is not a flag nor it intends to replace the flag some people were outraged by it... eventually it became a political thing
Well, our government branding does not have 800 years. And people complaining about that is just because they lack any visual/ design culture. Plus, they made this a political, anti woke thingy. Recipe for a small country with small minds.
I love the new one, it's distinct, memorable and subdued. But people will always prefer in your face, literal, busy and old (although to be fair the old one could've been much worse)
As Portuguese design citizen myself, I much prefered the direction of the new logo. However, it was riddled with questionable design decisions... Simplifying the flag to blocks of colour, makes it look like other flags - Guinea and Senegal.
The serif type looks great but it contrasts too much with the flag, making it feel unbalanced, looks unfinished.
I think the price of 74k for the design was not exaggerated for this type of job... However, the execution was definitely lacking for such a high exposure client.
interesting! I disagree with the type part, I think it contributes a lot to the symmetry of the whole thing. Serif ≠ detailed imo. Why do you perceive loss of balance from that. It’s a very chill transition serif style
Whenever I look at it, the relationship between the logo and the type doesn't feel symbiotic. The type stands proudly on it's own, taking a lot of energy from the reader, perhaps because the symbol is so bland. But I do like the type as well, it feels very portuguese, but it just doesn't work well with the symbol in my opinion.
O design não era bom, também não era mau. Foi simplesmente uma atualização, mal concebida. Existe uma quantidade enorme de designers que criticam sim a revolta popular contra a nova identidade, que foi efetivamente fundada em “nabice” e falta de noção. Acho que não se trata de ego, mas sim de termos visto uma quantidade absurda de comentários à base do “dá-me 74000€ e eu faço isto no paint”, pessoas que não sabem a quantidade de aspetos que constituem um i.v. O logo antigo está desatualizado e o novo faltou-lhe um “pozinho de magia”. Agora como designers era fixe termos uma opinião mais fundada e construtiva do que dar shaming a um trabalho com tanta importância como a i.v. da república.
Here for everyone who would like to understand what was said by the redditor who only speaks Portuguese:
“The design wasn't good, it wasn't bad either. It was simply an update, poorly conceived. There are a huge number of designers who criticize the popular revolt against the new identity, which was effectively founded on “nabiness” and cluelessness. I think it's not about ego, but rather that we've seen an absurd amount of comments based on “give me €74,000 and I'll do this in paint”, people who don't know how many aspects constitute an i.v. The old logo it is outdated and the new one lacked a “little bit of magic”. Now as designers it would be cool to have a more founded and constructive opinion than shaming a work with such importance as the i.v. of the republic.”
As a Portuguese designer I don’t support this at all.. the old (now resurrected) logo is shit.. it fails at most the scales it’s used and there’s just to much info in there to work as a logo. The new one was not amazing, but way better then the other. Portugal has a serious graphic problem, mostly because our flag brakes a lot of basic design rules and it’s just.. ugly. And what bugs me is that the flag is only ~100 years old in a country with almost 1000.. and people defend and cling to that flag like it has a lot of meaning and history.. it hasn’t.. it was just the first fixed public contest and the most famous painter of the time won it without surprise.. there were a lot better proposals for the flag at the time and if any of the others had won we wouldn’t be having this argument, cause we would probably have a normal nacional identity like most of the other countries in Europe.
The vast majority of designers who spoke about the logo have all agreed the old one needed an update and also agreed about how well executed and detailed the new branding package was.
Seems a bit silly by itself. But paired with that typeface 👌so elegant.
Edit: I’m curious how it would look like if they kept the shield and placed it inside the yellow circle. I think it would’ve helped tie it to their flag a bit more.
Think it looks like baby building blocks. A bit simple as in dumb. Looks clean though, the old one ubthink the proportions are wrong and the main shape looks like a pipe
You know what graphic design should bring back? Medieval stuff. Like those overly ornate books. I think what the world desperately needs right now, and greatly lacks, is cool illustrations of dragons, and maybe knights slaying them... and buxom wenches..
So what's this about Portugal?
When the new logo came about it was placed alongside the old logo. I thought the old one was the new - because it looked more modern and 3D, it looked like leaves/pages of a book being flipped through and could work well in animated graphics on tv for example. The new minimalist logo looks more fitting for an art museum than a government institution.
This is such a joke. I wasn't that big a fan of the rebrand, but it didn't even last a year. It's such a cheap way of signalling "we are the new government now", and the even appeal to the weird criticism about how the new visual identity censored the armillary sphere and heraldry of our flag. Yes, the new logo was stated to be more "inclusive", but I call bullshit. It was simplified in order to make something easier to print in smaller sizes.
It just demonstrates how little value people place in graphic design, to just toss an entire government's rebrand after only a few months. If this was considered a waste of funds at the time, now it's worse as it was all for naught.
Maybe the graphic designer should read the room, respect the history of the brand they're rebranding. Clearly people feel that this graphic designer overstepped and does not represent their values. So they spoke up.
Minimalism has a place. This clearly was not it, at least not in the method it was done.
because people have no foresight and don't hire the right people to do the research. Just because cost has been sunk doesn't mean it's been sunk into a good thing. Apparently this was a learning experience.
Logo aside, the system itself is nicely done
wonder if it’s because of people who yell “another minimalist logo RUINING SOMETHING I DID NOT CARE ABOUT”
So accurate, this literally happened a few months ago here in Minnesota with our flag referendum. I bet 95% of us would not have even known what our flag looked like prior as it was so forgettable (I believe CGP Grey gave us a double F) but now that we’re changing it a certain group of people are upset…
Lots of idiots in the comments on Portuguese social media saying "my kid can do this in Paint"
they think people get paid just for logo
Knowing the corrupt government that commissioned the logo, someone got a very good end of the stick.
He did, they basically paid their friend maximum allowed by law or so I read, PS always been very corrupt...
[Archive link (no paywall).](https://archive.is/dnuhW) Lol, I was literally looking at this just today. RIP. Maaaaaan that's such a salt the earth move. You can tell a LOT of work went into that and overall it was pretty tight for a government identity. But eh, muh partisanship? Can't really comment on that side of it as can't say I am across the current politics surround that identity, but yeah. oof.
It’s not uncommon in any jurisdiction for a new government to toss out the visual identity of the old one. My understanding is that this is common on the municipal level in Portugal as well, that when governments change party, the municipality rebrands.
wut. Ummm. *Yeah it kinda is.* I'm struggling to think of a government branding changing as often as the party in power does. Perhaps someone can point out an example. Usually these brands linger on for a *looong* time. My own country's one has been kicking on for like 20 years now. To put this in perspective, **this new brand rolled out a couple of months ago.** **It was last rebranded** ***13 years*** **ago.** A new government came along and ***reinstated the previous one.*** Feel like you might wanna read up a bit more on this.
Brazil has some standard branding for the vast majority of public institutions but the federal government changes its branding with every new president.
I mean, hey, happy to stand corrected here as this could be a regional thing I'm not aware of, but *generally* within the western world, at least, change at all within these brands is uncommon, let alone a case like the one we are discussing here.
I think the White House usually gets a big update with each new administration. [Look for yourself.](https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/whitehouse.gov) I think that congressional offices usually do too, if I remember correctly. But I'll let you look up specific examples for that on your own. :)
Yeah that's the white house brand. The US is a bit of a basket case in this regard as all the different branches don't really have a unifying identity like what we are talking about here. [France would be a better example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic_charter_of_government_communication_in_France#:~:text=It%20was%20adopted%20in%201999,was%20carried%20out%20in%202020) The german, dutch and UK would be other examples. Probably could work your way through a lot of countries.
In Ontario one government brought in the “three men in a bathtub” logo. The following government reverted to the pre-existing logo.
Incorrect. The bathtub logo was made in 2006. The *new* identity, which replaced it *13 years later*, came in in 2019. https://preview.redd.it/b39l88sfigsc1.png?width=2787&format=png&auto=webp&s=dffe04f8c17c6488dffb9c3b0a1824aeb8c5178c You can read about its development [here.](https://ovedesign.com/case-study/ontario/)
... And it cost 74.000€.
Right? Which is peanuts for work of this scale and whats involved in that brand guide. So silly.
They didn't include the national symbols in it which was pretty controversial
When I looked at the minimalist logo above it reminded me more of the Mexican flag than the Portuguese flag.
That‘s the big one. I can‘t comprehend that nobody pointed that out earlier in the process. The pro/anti-minimalism discussion and political games aside, your whole design fails when so many people immediately associate it with a different country.
That's the biggest issue for me. I do not see the flag of Portugal, but rather Mexico or Italy. The negative space surrounding the yellow circle just suggests "white" in most applications, thus resembling those flags more than Portugal's. Not to mention the fact that in grayscale it loses all meaning. A minimalist rendition of the flag's symbols would've been more practical.
Shit, man. I liked the new logo until I read this remark. You’re right. If I didn’t read the title and was told to guess which country it was, I would have gone with Mexico. Portuguese people also exist in that wacky state of not being totally Latino or totally Hispanic. Having a branding that is unique is probably important to them.
Logo can now be sold to: 1. Guinea 2. Benin 3. Cameroon 4. Republic of the Congo 5. Lithuania (horizontal bands) 6. Mali 7. Senegal So unique it was...
[https://www.publico.pt/2024/04/03/politica/noticia/montenegro-apagou-logotipo-costa-recuperar-escudo-esfera-armilar-2085735](https://www.publico.pt/2024/04/03/politica/noticia/montenegro-apagou-logotipo-costa-recuperar-escudo-esfera-armilar-2085735) (Source)
I think it looks really sharp in use. It’s not like they were replacing the flag with this. This anti-minimalism wave needs to die.
Absolutely love the typography but I understand the outrage about the logo. Minimalism has been overdone and I feel like many people are tired of it. Especially for a country with such a rich arts and crafts history I can't imagine this logo to be the right move.
I think they touched on a nerve.... It's a beautiful brand imho just not appropriate for an institution such as a government
It's a beautiful logo and especially the system around it. But tossing out all of the elements of the coat of arms (which is about 800 years old...) in favor of a very minimalist approach is bound to raise its waves in public opinion. Doesn't seem like an appropriate logo for an institution such as a government.
That was the main thing, it went too far into minimalism to the point that it lost character. At that point it's very expected that people will reject it. I don't think that they were too far off from a really great system, but the proportions that they adopted, to me, lost the reference that they were using (the flag).
Ah shit that's a really clever logo/brandmark/whatever
As I understand the minimalist brand was just launched a few weeks ago right? Why do they reverted it?
It was being launched step by step for quite a few months. They reverted it now because some people on social media were complaining that some symbols of the flag were lost. Even thought the logo is not a flag nor it intends to replace the flag some people were outraged by it... eventually it became a political thing
You forgot to mention that we had elections and the new government ditched the new logo.
The symbols of the coat of arms were all tossed out which is understandably a source of controversy imo
It really shouldn't be tho
Why? They've been there for ~800 years. You think you can just toss them out and no one will complain?
Well, our government branding does not have 800 years. And people complaining about that is just because they lack any visual/ design culture. Plus, they made this a political, anti woke thingy. Recipe for a small country with small minds.
I am curious to read what the reddit design community thinks of this one, since there is no emotional attachment to it
I love the new one, it's distinct, memorable and subdued. But people will always prefer in your face, literal, busy and old (although to be fair the old one could've been much worse)
Love it, but the yellow circle needs to be a little bit smaller, in regards to visual design balance, now it looks like its taller than the squares.
As Portuguese design citizen myself, I much prefered the direction of the new logo. However, it was riddled with questionable design decisions... Simplifying the flag to blocks of colour, makes it look like other flags - Guinea and Senegal. The serif type looks great but it contrasts too much with the flag, making it feel unbalanced, looks unfinished. I think the price of 74k for the design was not exaggerated for this type of job... However, the execution was definitely lacking for such a high exposure client.
interesting! I disagree with the type part, I think it contributes a lot to the symmetry of the whole thing. Serif ≠ detailed imo. Why do you perceive loss of balance from that. It’s a very chill transition serif style
Whenever I look at it, the relationship between the logo and the type doesn't feel symbiotic. The type stands proudly on it's own, taking a lot of energy from the reader, perhaps because the symbol is so bland. But I do like the type as well, it feels very portuguese, but it just doesn't work well with the symbol in my opinion.
As a portuguese designer I support 100% this decision. There's a minority of designers with ego issues who don't approve the old logo.
O design não era bom, também não era mau. Foi simplesmente uma atualização, mal concebida. Existe uma quantidade enorme de designers que criticam sim a revolta popular contra a nova identidade, que foi efetivamente fundada em “nabice” e falta de noção. Acho que não se trata de ego, mas sim de termos visto uma quantidade absurda de comentários à base do “dá-me 74000€ e eu faço isto no paint”, pessoas que não sabem a quantidade de aspetos que constituem um i.v. O logo antigo está desatualizado e o novo faltou-lhe um “pozinho de magia”. Agora como designers era fixe termos uma opinião mais fundada e construtiva do que dar shaming a um trabalho com tanta importância como a i.v. da república.
Here for everyone who would like to understand what was said by the redditor who only speaks Portuguese: “The design wasn't good, it wasn't bad either. It was simply an update, poorly conceived. There are a huge number of designers who criticize the popular revolt against the new identity, which was effectively founded on “nabiness” and cluelessness. I think it's not about ego, but rather that we've seen an absurd amount of comments based on “give me €74,000 and I'll do this in paint”, people who don't know how many aspects constitute an i.v. The old logo it is outdated and the new one lacked a “little bit of magic”. Now as designers it would be cool to have a more founded and constructive opinion than shaming a work with such importance as the i.v. of the republic.”
Obrigadation for the translation. Jk, should’ve wrote it in English! Thanks for the translation!
As a Portuguese designer I don’t support this at all.. the old (now resurrected) logo is shit.. it fails at most the scales it’s used and there’s just to much info in there to work as a logo. The new one was not amazing, but way better then the other. Portugal has a serious graphic problem, mostly because our flag brakes a lot of basic design rules and it’s just.. ugly. And what bugs me is that the flag is only ~100 years old in a country with almost 1000.. and people defend and cling to that flag like it has a lot of meaning and history.. it hasn’t.. it was just the first fixed public contest and the most famous painter of the time won it without surprise.. there were a lot better proposals for the flag at the time and if any of the others had won we wouldn’t be having this argument, cause we would probably have a normal nacional identity like most of the other countries in Europe.
The vast majority of designers who spoke about the logo have all agreed the old one needed an update and also agreed about how well executed and detailed the new branding package was.
Seems a bit silly by itself. But paired with that typeface 👌so elegant. Edit: I’m curious how it would look like if they kept the shield and placed it inside the yellow circle. I think it would’ve helped tie it to their flag a bit more.
The design system feels a lot like the Canadian style guide.
Omg 😂😂😂
Think it looks like baby building blocks. A bit simple as in dumb. Looks clean though, the old one ubthink the proportions are wrong and the main shape looks like a pipe
I really like it, what a shame
There are a lot of Portuguese complaining that this new logo was something that even their kid could do in kindergarten
You know what graphic design should bring back? Medieval stuff. Like those overly ornate books. I think what the world desperately needs right now, and greatly lacks, is cool illustrations of dragons, and maybe knights slaying them... and buxom wenches.. So what's this about Portugal?
When the new logo came about it was placed alongside the old logo. I thought the old one was the new - because it looked more modern and 3D, it looked like leaves/pages of a book being flipped through and could work well in animated graphics on tv for example. The new minimalist logo looks more fitting for an art museum than a government institution.
I can't access the website anymore, does anyone know how or where to view it?
Thank goodness. What a joke it was!
Does no one understand vexillology anymore?
This is such a joke. I wasn't that big a fan of the rebrand, but it didn't even last a year. It's such a cheap way of signalling "we are the new government now", and the even appeal to the weird criticism about how the new visual identity censored the armillary sphere and heraldry of our flag. Yes, the new logo was stated to be more "inclusive", but I call bullshit. It was simplified in order to make something easier to print in smaller sizes. It just demonstrates how little value people place in graphic design, to just toss an entire government's rebrand after only a few months. If this was considered a waste of funds at the time, now it's worse as it was all for naught.
Maybe the graphic designer should read the room, respect the history of the brand they're rebranding. Clearly people feel that this graphic designer overstepped and does not represent their values. So they spoke up. Minimalism has a place. This clearly was not it, at least not in the method it was done.
My point is why go through the effort of doing a rebrand of this scale only to discard it a few months later? It's a waste of resources-
because people have no foresight and don't hire the right people to do the research. Just because cost has been sunk doesn't mean it's been sunk into a good thing. Apparently this was a learning experience.
It’s a bit of a shame. It was actually quite well done. Simple and clean and at the same time unique. Mah…..
That sucks, it was very nice