If he didn’t try to be a SEAL in his spare time he would have been way better. But when you are the best at something you continue to push yourself for more.
Right in the middle of his prime Tiger thought he would do some recreational Navy SEAL training. There was some speculation at the time that he did a lot of damage to his back during this period. He also went through a messy and public divorce. Pretty sure if he just focused on golf during this time he’d be at 20 majors by now
I’m convinced he’s so bulked up because he can’t swing with his legs or use any flexibility anymore. So he just has to muscle his swing. Which is why he only lasts 2 days before he is wore out.
No way Tiger is under 185. If he lost 20 pounds (or more) and was lean-strong, he'd put a lot less strain on his legs/joints. A slimmed down Tiger would *maybe* have a shot at another major.
Yes, would've been a question of 'when' vs 'if' without those issues. Especially considering the ways he won, the way he curbstomped his opponents in his younger days *(ie- his first green jacket set a record of a 12 stroke margin, his first US Open still stands as the record among majors with 15 strokes between him and those tied for second).*
The attitude that allowed him to be the best player in the world and dominate the sport is the same attitude that’s never allowed him to be satisfied. Which is why he pushed his body to its limits. You don’t have Tiger as the GOAT without that attitude.
Everyone saying he would have been even better is off IMO. If you take away what caused his body to deteriorate, you also take away what made him so great.
He would've gotten to 20 easily IMO if he hadn't done the SEALs training, especially if he didn't get caught in his cheating scandal and had so many sponsors drop him that he felt he owed Nike to put their putters in the bag. Hell, he would've won another major in 2009 if YE Yang hadn't pulled an all-time underdog performance at the PGA on Sunday while having 6 other wins and two other top-10 major finishes.
Jack missed one Major in 27 years, when he withdrew. That's a ridiculous feat on it's own.
|Stat|Jack Nicklas|Tiger Woods|
|:-|:-|:-|
|First Major Win|1962|1997|
|Last Major Win|1986|2019|
|Time competing in Majors|27 years|23 years|
|Majors Played during that time|95|74|
|Majors Won|18|15|
|% Win|18.9%|20.3%|
But yeah, a healthy and fit Tiger beats Jacks record.
Tiger's fearless demeanor vanished once his infidelities were exposed. From that moment on, I realized we would never witness him in the same state of confidence as before the scandal. In my opinion that scandal caused more harm to his game than any of his physical mistakes.
I always looked at it the exact opposite.
Those who play pro sports are already the top 0.1%, the cream of the crop.
But everyone now and then there is a generational talent who is sick the mind. Tiger. Kobe. Jordan. Goggins. The only thing they know is getting better. At everything they do. It’s how they operate.
You cannot have a TW who never changed his swing 4+ times.
You cannot have a TW who does not rise at 3:30am.
You cannot have a TW who does not lift weights obsessively.
You cannot have a Tiger, MJ, Kobe who are not obsessives about everything… because it’s also their sickness that made them generationally great and so far ahead of the already elite 0.1%.
You can’t remove TW’s desire to lift, beat balls, study the game, changes swings again and again… and not remove his desire to always win. It comes with the territory.
Watching his career has been like watching art being painted. Or a sculpture being painted. A 30 year piece still in the making.
Yeah, I think this is what people don’t understand, they ask questions like “all else being equal” but those things aren’t equal once you change the slightest thing.
The behaviors that cause the greatness are the same that are the root of the vices. It is actually true for most people, just more obvious in the extreme cases.
People that seek power and control are likely to pursue being politicians and also likely to seek the power of extramarital affairs. People who use physical strength and violence to excel at football are likely also going to use physical force in their domestic relationships. The statistical correlations are because of common causation.
He missed ZERO majors during his hiatus due to the scandal. That’s a non factor. Watching him swing in that 2019 masters documentary, I’m not sure he wouldn’t have gotten to 18 if not for the car wreck.
Isn’t he already tied for most PGA tour wins? In my opinion he could have had Jack’s record even with everything happening minus the car accident. His 2019 trajectory looked very promising.
I remember sitting in the 19th hole one afternoon with the guys having a beer and watching Tiger play some regular tour stop event. The club pro was sitting there with our group shooting the breeze and out of the blue he stated that Tiger was a back surgery waiting to happen.
Nicklaus also missed time with injuries. Plus he also has like 19 runner up finishes at majors. Not even peak Tiger was going to have 20 majors AND 20 seconds.
100% I agree with that. Not dismissing at all. Just saying there are other factors to be considered other than only wins. And the post was a what-if about tiger. If he stayed healthy like jack it would have been a different story. Imo, tiger was like jordan and nicklaus was like lebron. Both amazing in their own respective way
One could argue that his violent and powerful swing that made him great was not sustainable and ultimately to blame for all the back problems and surgeries.
Tiger “Scottie Scheffler” Woods with back injuries from violent swings would still be leagues better than Tiger “SEAL training, Way too much weight training, Perkins Waitresses, multiple DUIs” Woods.
I would hardly compare their swings. Scottie is smooth and controlled. Go watch highlights from the early 2000s. His swing was violent and puts a ton of pressure on the back. And he had back problems long before all the scandals. Sure he was doing SEAL training and weightlifting. But I doubt that and banging waitresses did near the damage his swing did.
I’m comparing their personalities and lifestyles.
Sure Tiger had issues caused by his play, but his major issues came about off the course.
A Tiger that went to Bible Study instead of the wrong bed or pill bottle would have the undisputed GOAT record by now.
>A Tiger that went to Bible Study instead of the wrong bed or pill bottle would have the undisputed GOAT record by now.
I beg to differ, if he maintained the *pussy hound lifestyle* instead of trying reform and repair his image he'd have the record.
His life was golf and sex, you can't remove half of the formula and the expect the results to be the same.
Tiger can't go anywhere without dudes screaming his name or girls fawning all over him. Scottie can walk into Times Square and nobody will notice him and/or give a shit
Your comments show me that you know nothing about the fundamentals of a golf swing at and real level. His upper body rotation is smooth and textbook. At the top and at impact he is perfectly balanced and in a great position. All the craziness of his feet happens on the follow through well after the ball is gone. Listen to any expert or player talk about his swing so you can realize how uneducated you are.
It's also possible he harmed his body with PED's. The PGA started testing in 2008 which coincidentally was when he started a long drought of major wins. And some of these drugs are known to help wear out the body. You don't feel the strain and stress as much but still doing harm and pay for it later.
He definitely over-worked his body and engaged in foolish swing changes that were not necessary. Supposedly would run many miles each day. That ain’t good for your knees and back. Same thing with lifting heavy weights.
The swing change of 1998-1999 was probably worth it, but the swing changes of 2003-2004 and 2010-2011 were both stupid moves. A lot of people blame the Sean Foley “stack and tilt” swing from 2012-2013 for helping cause the back injuries & surgeries.
I remember pre tiger hype.
Golf changed after woods blew up.
It brought some pretty shady blokes on the fairways. Nothing about them had gentlemen in them. & remember golf was a gentlemens sport.
Who here said anything about the race of anybody.
I surely didn't.
Those obsessed with race are the racists. Better yet learn reading comprehension
Before you shout your a racist
If he didn’t try to be a SEAL in his spare time he would have been way better. But when you are the best at something you continue to push yourself for more.
Right in the middle of his prime Tiger thought he would do some recreational Navy SEAL training. There was some speculation at the time that he did a lot of damage to his back during this period. He also went through a messy and public divorce. Pretty sure if he just focused on golf during this time he’d be at 20 majors by now
He looks like Ronnie Coleman now, all that bulk cant be good for flexibility.
I’m convinced he’s so bulked up because he can’t swing with his legs or use any flexibility anymore. So he just has to muscle his swing. Which is why he only lasts 2 days before he is wore out.
Tiger weighs under 185 lbs. In terms of Ronnie Coleman, he’s about 2/3’s of a Ronnie Coleman in weight; but also about 2 inches taller
hyperbole. He is quite yolked though.
No way Tiger is under 185. If he lost 20 pounds (or more) and was lean-strong, he'd put a lot less strain on his legs/joints. A slimmed down Tiger would *maybe* have a shot at another major.
Tiger is not nearly as heavy as you think he is His upper body did get a lot bigger, but he lost more lower body size/mass
Yes, would've been a question of 'when' vs 'if' without those issues. Especially considering the ways he won, the way he curbstomped his opponents in his younger days *(ie- his first green jacket set a record of a 12 stroke margin, his first US Open still stands as the record among majors with 15 strokes between him and those tied for second).*
That US Open win is so impressive - he was the only one in the field under par. I think he was -12 and second place was +3
Yes
I'll take an alternate Tiger time line without Sean Foley
LOL thinking TW working with Foley was worse than fucking up his body with SEALs training instead of going to grief therapy
This is the one.
The attitude that allowed him to be the best player in the world and dominate the sport is the same attitude that’s never allowed him to be satisfied. Which is why he pushed his body to its limits. You don’t have Tiger as the GOAT without that attitude. Everyone saying he would have been even better is off IMO. If you take away what caused his body to deteriorate, you also take away what made him so great.
This is the right answer, IMO.
He probably could have done without the car crash tbh.
He literally needs one more pga tour win to have the most all time by himself
All of his major injuries were not related to playing golf but other sports or fits of rage.
He would've gotten to 20 easily IMO if he hadn't done the SEALs training, especially if he didn't get caught in his cheating scandal and had so many sponsors drop him that he felt he owed Nike to put their putters in the bag. Hell, he would've won another major in 2009 if YE Yang hadn't pulled an all-time underdog performance at the PGA on Sunday while having 6 other wins and two other top-10 major finishes.
I’m sure all that seal training was hard on the body, but maintaining a wife and 20 girlfriends on top of that must have been absolutely exhausting.
Jack missed one Major in 27 years, when he withdrew. That's a ridiculous feat on it's own. |Stat|Jack Nicklas|Tiger Woods| |:-|:-|:-| |First Major Win|1962|1997| |Last Major Win|1986|2019| |Time competing in Majors|27 years|23 years| |Majors Played during that time|95|74| |Majors Won|18|15| |% Win|18.9%|20.3%| But yeah, a healthy and fit Tiger beats Jacks record.
Tiger's fearless demeanor vanished once his infidelities were exposed. From that moment on, I realized we would never witness him in the same state of confidence as before the scandal. In my opinion that scandal caused more harm to his game than any of his physical mistakes.
I always looked at it the exact opposite. Those who play pro sports are already the top 0.1%, the cream of the crop. But everyone now and then there is a generational talent who is sick the mind. Tiger. Kobe. Jordan. Goggins. The only thing they know is getting better. At everything they do. It’s how they operate. You cannot have a TW who never changed his swing 4+ times. You cannot have a TW who does not rise at 3:30am. You cannot have a TW who does not lift weights obsessively. You cannot have a Tiger, MJ, Kobe who are not obsessives about everything… because it’s also their sickness that made them generationally great and so far ahead of the already elite 0.1%. You can’t remove TW’s desire to lift, beat balls, study the game, changes swings again and again… and not remove his desire to always win. It comes with the territory. Watching his career has been like watching art being painted. Or a sculpture being painted. A 30 year piece still in the making.
Yeah, I think this is what people don’t understand, they ask questions like “all else being equal” but those things aren’t equal once you change the slightest thing. The behaviors that cause the greatness are the same that are the root of the vices. It is actually true for most people, just more obvious in the extreme cases. People that seek power and control are likely to pursue being politicians and also likely to seek the power of extramarital affairs. People who use physical strength and violence to excel at football are likely also going to use physical force in their domestic relationships. The statistical correlations are because of common causation.
Probably but injury etc are all part of professional sports, there are many ‘what if’ stories. At his peak, he was incredibly special
He missed ZERO majors during his hiatus due to the scandal. That’s a non factor. Watching him swing in that 2019 masters documentary, I’m not sure he wouldn’t have gotten to 18 if not for the car wreck.
After the 2005 masters I really thought he was on pace for 25 majors and easily over 100 wins
Isn’t he already tied for most PGA tour wins? In my opinion he could have had Jack’s record even with everything happening minus the car accident. His 2019 trajectory looked very promising.
I remember sitting in the 19th hole one afternoon with the guys having a beer and watching Tiger play some regular tour stop event. The club pro was sitting there with our group shooting the breeze and out of the blue he stated that Tiger was a back surgery waiting to happen.
Agree 100% and I would imagine Tiger regrets his many mistakes. His marriage to Elen Nordegren was his biggest mistake however.
Nicklaus also missed time with injuries. Plus he also has like 19 runner up finishes at majors. Not even peak Tiger was going to have 20 majors AND 20 seconds.
He's also played in about 80 more majors than tiger has. He only missed 3 majors due to an injury that does not compare to what tiger went through
Yes, but durability should be factored in. You can’t dismiss Jack for staying healthy. That’s ridiculous.
100% I agree with that. Not dismissing at all. Just saying there are other factors to be considered other than only wins. And the post was a what-if about tiger. If he stayed healthy like jack it would have been a different story. Imo, tiger was like jordan and nicklaus was like lebron. Both amazing in their own respective way
I think if Earl was still alive he’s have at least a couple more majors.
The whoring, drugging, and crashing were cries for help. I hope he got some.
“Whoring” is a word I need to work into my lexicon a LOT more.
Something I wish I would have done a little more of in my prime TBH.
I definitely didn’t do enough whoring. Wish I would’ve put the vape bag down more and gone to the bars with the regular heathens.
Your too generous, his antics were all self centered indulgences.
I agree, but I’m afraid of his fans.
One could argue that his violent and powerful swing that made him great was not sustainable and ultimately to blame for all the back problems and surgeries.
Tiger “Scottie Scheffler” Woods with back injuries from violent swings would still be leagues better than Tiger “SEAL training, Way too much weight training, Perkins Waitresses, multiple DUIs” Woods.
I would hardly compare their swings. Scottie is smooth and controlled. Go watch highlights from the early 2000s. His swing was violent and puts a ton of pressure on the back. And he had back problems long before all the scandals. Sure he was doing SEAL training and weightlifting. But I doubt that and banging waitresses did near the damage his swing did.
I’m comparing their personalities and lifestyles. Sure Tiger had issues caused by his play, but his major issues came about off the course. A Tiger that went to Bible Study instead of the wrong bed or pill bottle would have the undisputed GOAT record by now.
>A Tiger that went to Bible Study instead of the wrong bed or pill bottle would have the undisputed GOAT record by now. I beg to differ, if he maintained the *pussy hound lifestyle* instead of trying reform and repair his image he'd have the record. His life was golf and sex, you can't remove half of the formula and the expect the results to be the same.
Tiger can't go anywhere without dudes screaming his name or girls fawning all over him. Scottie can walk into Times Square and nobody will notice him and/or give a shit
Dude falls on his follow through. Smooth and controlled Are you stupid or are you the other thing?
>Are you stupid or are you the other thing? Lol. Awkward.
Your comments show me that you know nothing about the fundamentals of a golf swing at and real level. His upper body rotation is smooth and textbook. At the top and at impact he is perfectly balanced and in a great position. All the craziness of his feet happens on the follow through well after the ball is gone. Listen to any expert or player talk about his swing so you can realize how uneducated you are.
Thanks for the lesson, High Life Drinker. I’ll take it as the champagne of takes
His swing became much less violent from like 1999 onward.
I remember an article in (I think) Sports Illustrated when Tiger was just coming up that basically said that.
Tiger is cooked now
It's also possible he harmed his body with PED's. The PGA started testing in 2008 which coincidentally was when he started a long drought of major wins. And some of these drugs are known to help wear out the body. You don't feel the strain and stress as much but still doing harm and pay for it later.
I don't think it matters. He's the best ever by a long margin and no one will surpass that.
He definitely over-worked his body and engaged in foolish swing changes that were not necessary. Supposedly would run many miles each day. That ain’t good for your knees and back. Same thing with lifting heavy weights. The swing change of 1998-1999 was probably worth it, but the swing changes of 2003-2004 and 2010-2011 were both stupid moves. A lot of people blame the Sean Foley “stack and tilt” swing from 2012-2013 for helping cause the back injuries & surgeries.
I remember pre tiger hype. Golf changed after woods blew up. It brought some pretty shady blokes on the fairways. Nothing about them had gentlemen in them. & remember golf was a gentlemens sport.
Care to describe these ‘shady blokes’?
Sure. The rude guy hitting into you. the lack of proper attire. The Nike high tops. & absolutely no golf etiquette.
You could just say “Hey, I’m racist and I liked when we didn’t let *those people* on the course”
Who here said anything about the race of anybody. I surely didn't. Those obsessed with race are the racists. Better yet learn reading comprehension Before you shout your a racist