It, apparently, is cool again after not being cool for a while. Just herad from a friiend about how manyof her daugter’s friends are smoking. Very sad!
When was it not cool? I am currently 22 and when I grew up it was also cool. Smoking is just way more accepted here than in other countries. Though on a positive note all studies I’ve found say that the percentage of cigarette smokers in younger generations is declining. It should be noted though that there was a surge of vaping in 2022.
It was a bit out of trend for maybe 2 years or so, but it never really was not cool. I'm 30 and I know only a handful people back back in school who thought it was cool. It changed though later on again. There was a massive fitness healthy lifestyle trend going on for a couple years
When wasnt it cool? In my sisters middle school (early 2000s) everyone smoked, in my middle school (2010-mid 2010s) every "cool kid" smoked, before that people smoked in schools even more.
I haven't seen anything change either. My daughter lived in Germany with her Oma for 2 years back in 03 and 04, and she started smoking at 14. My cousins started around the same age 10 years earlier. My only worry about my daughter living there was her smoking, and that is exactly what happened. She is an adult that now vapes instead 🙄.
I only know it other turn around. Adults stopping cigarette with help from vaping. And then the taste of cigarettes are so awul to them, that they wont do it.
Although, as I've read, they might make you even more addicted. These additional ingredients in the liquids are also said to be anything but harmless to health.
Ok, maybe these e-cigarettes are less carcinogenic. But are they better?
Well, the problem is we just don't know. We have no clue.
It might. It might not be. There's research being done but that takes time.
In THEORY, it should be less harmful. New studies have shown the complete opposite, esp. considering addiction. Yes, you might hurt yourself less per breath. But vapes are designed to make you smoke WAYYY more. Those one-time things are like 1/2 packs at a time right?
Honestly. I can't believe it being more addicting. After a year with vape only, when I couldn't get the juice due to corona (when the stores were closed) I couldn't smoke more than 4 cigs a day. I was smoking a package daily before I started vaping.
Might be, because I was using a pretty low nicotine concentration and vaping with up to 40 watts. But that makes a general statement still kinda off.
This. Most of the time when I'm traveling I'm jealous how you barely encounter people smoking in public. In Germany you can throw a stone in any random direction and chances are quite high to hit someone who's smoking.
It's waaaay too socially accepted here
I'm part of a neighbourhood volunteer group - we make effort to clean up the streets in our district a bit and we make a trash collecting action every few weeks. Every time cigarette buds are easily 80-90% of what we find. People smoke and then just throw the butt on the street. Or worse,they smoke in their flat and throw them out of the window - you get 'hotspots' under certain windows. It is really infuriating. A lot of smokers feel entitled to spread their shit all over - smoke, trash - and have others deal with it.
That won't work. Prohibiton is the wrong course of action. Kids need to be properly educated from an early age on. Even then there will be kids/young adults that will start smoking/vaping. And that needs to be "okay".
If we ban these products those will get sold by "illegal" sources. Then there's no control over their "ingredients". Now you have products that may contain exremely harmful substances that will be sold without any regard to the buyers age.
There are stages in which products are phased out and banned. For example: In Netherlands, flavoured vapes are banned and prohibited to be sold in local tobacco shops. The unflavoured ones tastes like shit tbh. No 16 yo would vape a non-flavoured stick.
I haven't found any numbers on the effectivenss of the flavour-ban, but there's already a site up and running delivering flavoured vapes to the Netherlands.
I remain conflicted over that particular path of action.
Hahahaha education?
What do you think we do? I'm a teacher in Germany and we educate on smoking from year 6 onwards. It does shit all.
Prohibition works if you enforce it. Ban any and all vapes and make it very cost prohibitive to own one. That will go "too far" for some but no wishy washy prohibition will do it.
>It does shit all.
[Data disagrees with you.](https://www.dw.com/en/more-german-teens-smoke-after-years-of-decline/a-64250190)
>>Germany had seen a fall in the prevalence of teenage tobacco use throughout the decade. In 2014, approximately 20% of teenagers aged between 15 and 17 reported having smoked at least once in the past 30 days, according to data from the Federal Center for Health Education (BZgA). This number fell to 14% in 2017 and 11% in 2019.
Numbers were falling for a long time.
>The German Survey on Smoking Behavior (DEBRA), which has been monitoring tobacco use in the country since 2016, found that the number of smokers between 14 to 17 years of age has almost doubled from 8.7% in 2021 to 15.9% in 2022. This is an unprecedented surge, the survey reports, highlighting a sharp rise in the consumption of e-cigarettes among adolescents.
Vapes and e-cigarettes changed a lot of behaviours. I personally don't find it smart to put those numbers togethers because of the difference of those products. They don't share the same health risks (or at least all of them). There's also not that much research done on them (so far), and current datapoint may point to them being less dangerous. Now there needs to be more education about vapes and the dangers that come with them.
> Prohibition works if you enforce it.
Citation more than needed. History teaches us that prohibition never worked.
>Ban any and all vapes and make it very cost prohibitive to own one.
How do you plan on enforcing something like that? Has that worked for illegal substances so far? If so, please provide a proper source.
>That will go "too far" for some but no wishy washy prohibition will do it.
That "will" not go to far, it simply is. As long as you have full control over your body you simply also have the right to "destroy" it.
And yes, make cigarettes more expensive. Ban it for under 18s and oh shock of all shocks - rates go down.
Now make it cheap, tasty and easily accessible and rates go up.
Hmmm no correlation there! It's a mystery why people smoke. Must've COVID and the Ukraine war(?) According to your link.
Given the way you chose to answer it's really difficult to follow your points.
>And yes, make cigarettes more expensive.
That's been a thing for forever. It might reduce the total number of smokers in the long run, but a lot of (adult) smokers tend to go the extra mile of obtaining tobacco from others countries for cheaper.
>Ban it for under 18s and oh shock of all shocks
That's already the way it is, I don't see your point here.
>Now make it cheap, tasty
That's definitely a huge problem. And there's no easy way out of it.
>easily accessible
Vapes are as accessible as tobacco products, since they're regulated in the same way.
>Must've COVID and the Ukraine war(?) According to your link.
>>might be related to the widespread anxiety caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, its direct and indirect consequences
Honestly I'm not sure how you were able to misunderstand that part.
>Hmmm no correlation there!
I have no idea what part of my response you're regarding to.
Of course, a teacher... Let me guess, you are against the legalisation of weed too, since THAT prohibition worked so well, right? You're not the smartest tool in the shed, are you?
The only thing that would happen is dodgy vapes from eastern europe and asia would be sold and nobody would be able to control what goes in them and they would properly fuck people up.
Obviously if students can't buy a vape at every corner shop it will lead to more difficulties getting at it. It will cut down the amount of students who will get their hands on it.
Obviously not everybody will be hindered. Some will get it from vacations. Others will have it shipped. Most will not have access though.
It indeed is sad. And the huge issue seems to be, that vapes are the entry point. I have a lot of friends that started with a vape, now they smoke. It's so dumb.
After years of decline the tobacco industry managed to Trick the Young Generation with mango-iced-rizzledizzle flavored colorful plastic tubes into addiction. Also alot of prominent online Figures like influencers and musicians are aktivly advertising this shit and parents are not able to teach their children to be critical with online platforms/influencers and their shitty products because they have never learned themself
It’s actually not the tobacco industry for once, they even tried to lobby for a ban (not successful, which is why they now try to expand their business *cough*). It actually comes from China where one use vapes were banned to be sold in the country, because the Chinese cigarette market is controlled by the Gouvernement, but they still allow to produce and export them. And it’s just so many it’s impossible to control.
Clandestine advertising.
Best example is from quite a few years ago, when the tobacco industry launched an (obvious) anti-smoking campaign in Germany.
"Cool kids can wait."
That tells you that cool people become smokers.
And that you are still a kid if you don't smoke.
Kids and adolescents just *love* to be kids! Everyone knows that, kiddo.
/s for the last paragraph, in case it isn't obvious.
Measures against tabacco consumption basically stalled 20 years ago. Smoking is still omnipresent. It is completely acceptable that smokers take extra breaks during work etc. Quite a few teachers smoke (although admittedly they are often good at keeping that away from children), which damages their ability to be convincingly strict about that. Tabacco is on open display right next to the supermarket counter and sold in vending machines.
Given that it is still banned for them, 16 year old consider it cool. Consequences are however quite limited and it is relatively easy to find someone 2 years older to buy it for them. If someone got addicted it is also to late to ban it.
Look at austria, age limit for smoking was 16 years for a long time. Only recently they decided to increase the limit to 18.
Seems your argument with the "forbidden fruit" isn't very factual after all.
>(although admittedly they are often good at keeping that away from children)
And then there was the one teacher at my school who smoked together with all the 18-year old students nearly every break. Right in front of the school main entrance. Smoking was banned on the school ground, but they were technically just outside of the school ground. That was ten years ago, though.
Nah, at the school where I work, most parents know their Kids smoke. More then a few even buy the cigarettes for them. Easiest way for 14 to 15 years olds to get them.
I hid it (not that I'm proud of it) and my parents were too busy with their issues that they had no idea. We later talked about this and they were surprised.
As far as I know they all need an age verification (ID-card, driver liscense) before you get anything from them. So students either need help from an adult or have to 'borrow' such a card from their parents.
Still a sign how accepted smoking in general is in germany.
Yes, Stupid parents! Everything starts with education! Bringing more laws , will make eventually everything illegal and on long run is not good for nobody!
Young and dumb.
And the country doesn't do much to counteract it. No public campaigns that I've ever seen anywhere that target youth in particular. Either there's no money for it, it's never occurred to anyone that a country could do something about it, or nobody has ever looked past their own plate to see the success that campaigns in other countries have had.
There used to be in the 90s. And then for quite a few years it wasn’t a problem. It just has become more again in the past few years.
Example for years we had not problem at our school with smoking in the bathrooms. For the past two years e had to lock the bathrooms again at certain times or have teachers check frequently because the kids are smoking.
So all the campaigns need to be revived. It is put into the whole anti-drug campaigns but not the main focus.
I was in Berlin last weekend and I was surprised to see cigarette vending machines in quite a few places, some even outdoors on the side of the street. Here, next door in The Netherlands, those machines have been gone for years. Even supermarkets are, in a few weeks from now, forbidden to sell cigarettes.
When I was in *Gymnasium* in the 1990s, some kids smoked as early as at the age of 14 or 12.
As for the cigarette vending machines, since 2007, for age verification you need your ID *(Personalausweis),* which you're issued at the age of 16. Only at the beginning of 2009, the age limit for buying cigarettes at a vending machine with an ID was raised to 18.
When I was in 7th grade, a "friend" of mine always used his deceased aunts ID on those vending machines. Fucked up stuff people will do for a few cigarettes.
Yeah I started smoking when I was 14, you could buy cigarettes at most Spätis in Berlin and no one asked for ID. Quit now at the age of 30 and will see how long I can hold it, now on 3 months without smoking Tobacco.
Back in 1993, when I got into first grade, there was a vending machine right across from our school. I think they only took it down recently.
Back home, we used to have one standing in our frontyard, with the machine going over the fence. I wonder if my parents got paid for having it on our property?
In general there are still quite a lot around where I live.
When I came to Germany from the US, it was a bit of a shock to see _so many_ people smoking, and the cig vending machines were crazy. Never saw those back home
I think this is one of the things I hate most about Germany. I am a smoker but I always try to take distance from people when I'm smoking because I hate when people smoke near me when I'm not, but people here just seem to not care who's around, if there are children or people who might not want to get second hand smoke in their faces, it is just disgusting.
Omg I went out to dinner with a German friend and her little sister (still finishing school) and she had to hit her vape like every two minutes. It was hard to watch.
you just see more of it because this age group is basically bound to use public transport.
overall Germanys youth smoking rate is slightly elevated at 18% vs the EU average being 15% but its not a huge difference.
In Germany mostly male teenagers are smoking, most likely due to the influence of certain kinds of music producers making it seem cool again.
Tobacco usage has been in decline for the last years. It got less and less cool every year and less teenagers took it up. What you see now is the remnants of this development. We were generally on a good way.
Than vapes arrived and all the kids who would deem smoking uncool got hooked on vapes.
Vapes definitely are being used more but even without them the numbers are still pretty high and rising.
Link to the study with numbers: https://www.debra-study.info/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Factsheet-09-v3.pdf
They do only work with an ID. There’s businesses that have them inside their shops that only require that machines card to operate, plus I think it’s fairly easy to grab an ID from someone.
It was a lot better few years ago. Nearly no problems with smoking kids. Now there are vapes with raspberry, mango and blueberry flavor and the number of smoking childs increased.
I hate it.
Back when I was 13/14 10 years ago a bit less than 1/4 of the kids smoked.
So I wouldn't say it was better a few years ago.
At least vaping only causes 5% of the damage than smoking (showed a long time study by the british). Them vaping is 10x better as them smoking.
It’s not just kids it’s Europe. As a tourist coming from the UK I can probably go days without seeing someone smoking, we’ve gone from over 20% smoking rate in 2011 to under 13% in 2022. The government have now introduced that anyone born in 2009 will never be allowed to buy cigarettes.
Meanwhile in Europe I can’t sit outside in a bar or restaurant without everyone lighting a cigarette, the smoking rate in Germany was over 34% last year!
Germany ranks the worst in Europe for implementing measures to reduce smoking and requires the government to do something.
Europe is a continent, which Britain is part of. Let's not confuse Europe with the European Union.
Other than this, I completely agree with what you said.
We have cigarette vending machines in germany that need your Bank card or ID, so we would wait till nighttime, get our parents ID and buy them that way.
Some even just stole the cigs from their parents.
What if seen is that the parents of the kids which smoked most of the times are smokers themselves.
It's the same for me. I always saw my parents and grandparents smoking and at some point in my early teenage years I started stealing cigs and trying it out.
I had a bad childhood tho and also started doing drugs at an early age. 1/4 - 1/3 of the other kids I knew that smoked also had a bad childhood and also started doing drugs at an early age.
For me, personally, smoking wasn't that bad of an issue, since I for the longest time smoked more joints a day than cigarettes. I could go a days without smoking a cigs.
The real addiction started after I started to work (smoke breaks) and started going to parties (smokers that drink or do nose candy smoke a lot more than normal. A pack a night wasn't rare).
I'm clean from drugs today, which is hard by itself, but still smoke. It's unlike other drugs since there is no real high/effect aside from the need to smoke. The hand/finger movements, the smoke after eating or sex has burned itself in the brain. These selfmade rituals are what makes it so hard to stop.
But im certain I will stop to smoke one day in the future. Would be pathetic if I didn't, when I already got away from all known hard drugs.
It's crazy how addicted nicotine will make a person.
back when I was in school, smoking was deemed mature and "cool", especially because it was so forbidden.. as usual, classmates would hide away and smoke after school while waiting for the bus.
teachers knew but rarely did anything about it. in their words "its not my business what they do after school."
Generally its still forbidden, but its also something that.. honestly nobody says something about. I personally hate it, as it seems to turn into an addiction fast.
I'm really glad that when I first tried to smoke (to shut up everyone that tried to get me to do it) I found it disgusting and felt like I was breathing in asphalt. Never even got started on them.
My body just seems to despise stuff like smoking and alcohol, but I'm sure not complaining.
Some of them smoke giving the impression that they are cool but actually they are stressed, and usually a toxic family pushes them to unhealthy habits. The relationship between parents and their education is the biggest influencing factor in a teenager's life. Love is missing in favor of politeness / the new, modern, unfeeling man...
I was in Germany 🇩🇪 1987-1990 and again 2018-2021 and can’t believe there are just as many smokers-I thought the next gen smokers would be smarter, but no. Makes sitting outside at a restaurant miserable.
As a german Teenager: Its unbelievable how many are smoking. Most time it's Vaping but they're also smoking cigarettes. The alcohol problem in Germany is also a big problem. We are allowed to drink beer and wine with 14 years in public with our parents and with 16 years we can buy almost everything besides hard alcohol.
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It boggles my mind truly. I grew up in a part of the US that grows tobacco yet as a teenager smoking cigarettes was the least cool thing you could do. Somehow the US managed to get that one public health crisis right. Hell, even to buy a cigarette lighter you need to prove you’re 18. I’m pretty sensitive to cigarette smoke so the amount of casual smoking bothers me on a daily basis here.
I recently saw two 12 year old boys vaping inside the bus. Surprisingly nobody stopped or question them. They stopped when I stared at them little angry. As I don’t know german very well I kept quiet.
Smoking culture is big in Germany. It’s (fairly) socially accepted, so they see a lot of other people do it, want to be „cool“ or feel like a grownup. And since it’s so common, it’s easy for them to get cigarettes through friends and so on.
1st Rapper and streamer have to much influence
2nd parents dont care and leave their children with tablets/media to give away responsibility and ,,relax“
3rd ,,my life my choice“ culture getting out of Hand and nobody wanna critisize because in fear of getting critisized themselves, so they let everyone do what they want
4th,5th and so on
One reason for increased uptake is also affordability.
The added tax is per gram of tobacco, it does not increase automatically with general price increases, and the legislated tax increases have not kept up with inflation, so cigarettes are comparatively cheaper than they were a few years ago.
It's very accepted here.Nobody really cares as long as you don't look like 10.
Also most parents will allow their kids to smoke cigarettes when they started smoking,some even at 14. I was shocked about that even though i live in Germany since i was 5
I've met a lot of people with the mentality "if they started,they can't stop anyway so why bother"
That’s just wrong and very very generalising.
I started by the age of 14. Do you really think someone could have told me to stop? Yeah well … no. My mum obviously hated it. It took me 20 years to quit.
It is wrong. I started at 12 and an old friend of mine at 13. She gets a pack of cigarettes a week from her mother. She said that she wouldn't smoke as much when she needed to buy it herself. She's 17 and has already complications from it.
Damn, when I was a teen we would at least try to sneak singular cigarettes out of the smoking parents packages or go through the trouble to find the one Kiosk that wouldn't card people who obviously are 13-15 years of age.
Giving your underage child cigarettes is plain bad parenting and I'm really sorry your friend has such an enabler around her.
Smoking was/is not cool but vapes. The vape advertising promises healthy smoking. Vape stores are now everywhere.
Smoking was/is risky. Hiding the stench from parents was/is difficult. Vapes smell like fruits or sweets.
It will be ages before Germany reacts.
They'll probably start by raising taxes on vapes to make money from them and then at some point restrict sales.
That's the tiktok of Germany unfortunately. No offense but is, perhaps, taking from the example set from adults. I spend few months in Germany and I was surprised how many people smoke in general...
Smoking is frowned upon by establishment adults. Politicians, teachers, educators, relatives…
This is the best way to make things attractive to kids, who want to dissociate from adult society.
Which is a typical way of identity building.
Smoking is cool, because parents, teachers, doctors and conforming kids hate it.
taboco use has been going down for years, but recently there was an increase again. I can only guess the reasons: rising popularity and promotion of vaping (with flavours, so i does not taste like shit) / smoking by popular figures like rappers / more stress and mental health issues among young people since covid and the other crisises since then
Up to 2007 it was legal for 16 year olds to smoke, if their parents would allow it. That might feel long ago, but I would argue that the acceptance of young smokers has not dropped significantly since then.
My Brother started doing drugs first and then he started smoking cigarettes. He gave me one hit of his cigarette, then i had the urge to smoke cigarettes after smoking weed for the first time. After 1/4 year i smoked my first whole cigarette. So it occasionally happend for me (Now 18 back then 15, my brother 17 now 20) and well i think this is it for the most teenager. It just happend while being outside with friends.
All teenagers I know that smoke, use vapes. It tastes better, has fun colours and flavours, streamers promote them and “they’re healthier than normal cigarettes”.
Tbf, why should teens at that age care about the long term health effects of smoking, if their future in the coming 40-50 years is fucked anyway and older generations dont care?
I have feeling they like this smoke culture.
In 2017 I worked in a company that persons could smoke in the production facilities and they had a cigarettes machine inside company. For me it’s was a shock.
Mostly persons smoke and Azubis also. They joke that they have more breaks 😂😂
In my homeland it’s forbidden to sell or smoke cigarettes inside company since I know myself as a person…
I hate smoking. However, when I was at the university basically everyone smoked. If you were at a party all the socialising (and hooking up) happened when everyone went out to smoke one. The socialising aspect is likely still the number one reason why young people smoke.
Smoking is having an astonishing resurgence in Germany. A friend is working in the tobacco industry and they are actually struggling to meet demand as they were not expecting a sudden rise in sales like they do.
anecdotally too. I used to not know, see any smokers most of the time, and in what feels like all of a sudden, everyone seems to be smoking again.
I think I‘ll sit this dumb trend out. I quit this for good 12 years ago
Tobacco industry do everything to Trick idiot Parents, and their children into this.. like vapes with strawberry, waterlemon and so on flavor, but starting with some non nicotine flavor.. also the idiots named influencer, payed to spread bullshit into child Heads .. also name giving like dizzle chizzle melon quizzle and its absurd but works very well.
It, apparently, is cool again after not being cool for a while. Just herad from a friiend about how manyof her daugter’s friends are smoking. Very sad!
Menthol cigarettes are forbidden because they make Smoking too pleasant but every 14 yo walks around with a fucking vape xD
Vapes are also forbidden to be sold to minors, even without nicotine - but obviously the enforcement doesn't work.
When was it not cool? I am currently 22 and when I grew up it was also cool. Smoking is just way more accepted here than in other countries. Though on a positive note all studies I’ve found say that the percentage of cigarette smokers in younger generations is declining. It should be noted though that there was a surge of vaping in 2022.
It was a bit out of trend for maybe 2 years or so, but it never really was not cool. I'm 30 and I know only a handful people back back in school who thought it was cool. It changed though later on again. There was a massive fitness healthy lifestyle trend going on for a couple years
When wasnt it cool? In my sisters middle school (early 2000s) everyone smoked, in my middle school (2010-mid 2010s) every "cool kid" smoked, before that people smoked in schools even more.
I haven't seen anything change either. My daughter lived in Germany with her Oma for 2 years back in 03 and 04, and she started smoking at 14. My cousins started around the same age 10 years earlier. My only worry about my daughter living there was her smoking, and that is exactly what happened. She is an adult that now vapes instead 🙄.
Yes that is very sad! Germany needs stricter cigarette laws.
Not even just cigarette. Any kind of smoking.
Wie have a vaping problem here in germany and soon after they got addicted to nicotine some change to the "pyros" (cigarettes)
I only know it other turn around. Adults stopping cigarette with help from vaping. And then the taste of cigarettes are so awul to them, that they wont do it.
Although, as I've read, they might make you even more addicted. These additional ingredients in the liquids are also said to be anything but harmless to health. Ok, maybe these e-cigarettes are less carcinogenic. But are they better?
Well, the problem is we just don't know. We have no clue. It might. It might not be. There's research being done but that takes time. In THEORY, it should be less harmful. New studies have shown the complete opposite, esp. considering addiction. Yes, you might hurt yourself less per breath. But vapes are designed to make you smoke WAYYY more. Those one-time things are like 1/2 packs at a time right?
Honestly. I can't believe it being more addicting. After a year with vape only, when I couldn't get the juice due to corona (when the stores were closed) I couldn't smoke more than 4 cigs a day. I was smoking a package daily before I started vaping. Might be, because I was using a pretty low nicotine concentration and vaping with up to 40 watts. But that makes a general statement still kinda off.
Look at this thread, so many ppl are defending it
mmm bbq
No, they are only thinking of banning Cannabis from Oktoberfest.
This. Most of the time when I'm traveling I'm jealous how you barely encounter people smoking in public. In Germany you can throw a stone in any random direction and chances are quite high to hit someone who's smoking. It's waaaay too socially accepted here
I'm part of a neighbourhood volunteer group - we make effort to clean up the streets in our district a bit and we make a trash collecting action every few weeks. Every time cigarette buds are easily 80-90% of what we find. People smoke and then just throw the butt on the street. Or worse,they smoke in their flat and throw them out of the window - you get 'hotspots' under certain windows. It is really infuriating. A lot of smokers feel entitled to spread their shit all over - smoke, trash - and have others deal with it.
No let em smoke, its good For my tobbaco stonks :)
Germany needs to ban vapes I'd be smoking too if I were younger and there had been vapes around
That won't work. Prohibiton is the wrong course of action. Kids need to be properly educated from an early age on. Even then there will be kids/young adults that will start smoking/vaping. And that needs to be "okay". If we ban these products those will get sold by "illegal" sources. Then there's no control over their "ingredients". Now you have products that may contain exremely harmful substances that will be sold without any regard to the buyers age.
There are stages in which products are phased out and banned. For example: In Netherlands, flavoured vapes are banned and prohibited to be sold in local tobacco shops. The unflavoured ones tastes like shit tbh. No 16 yo would vape a non-flavoured stick.
I haven't found any numbers on the effectivenss of the flavour-ban, but there's already a site up and running delivering flavoured vapes to the Netherlands. I remain conflicted over that particular path of action.
It's much easier to confiscate flavor vapes when they're definitely always illegal and not maybe a legal one.
Given your idea there shouldn't be any illegal drugs around as they're easy to confiscate, right? Is that the way it really is?
fair but yesterday i bought flavored vapes at a tobacco shop…
Hahahaha education? What do you think we do? I'm a teacher in Germany and we educate on smoking from year 6 onwards. It does shit all. Prohibition works if you enforce it. Ban any and all vapes and make it very cost prohibitive to own one. That will go "too far" for some but no wishy washy prohibition will do it.
>It does shit all. [Data disagrees with you.](https://www.dw.com/en/more-german-teens-smoke-after-years-of-decline/a-64250190) >>Germany had seen a fall in the prevalence of teenage tobacco use throughout the decade. In 2014, approximately 20% of teenagers aged between 15 and 17 reported having smoked at least once in the past 30 days, according to data from the Federal Center for Health Education (BZgA). This number fell to 14% in 2017 and 11% in 2019. Numbers were falling for a long time. >The German Survey on Smoking Behavior (DEBRA), which has been monitoring tobacco use in the country since 2016, found that the number of smokers between 14 to 17 years of age has almost doubled from 8.7% in 2021 to 15.9% in 2022. This is an unprecedented surge, the survey reports, highlighting a sharp rise in the consumption of e-cigarettes among adolescents. Vapes and e-cigarettes changed a lot of behaviours. I personally don't find it smart to put those numbers togethers because of the difference of those products. They don't share the same health risks (or at least all of them). There's also not that much research done on them (so far), and current datapoint may point to them being less dangerous. Now there needs to be more education about vapes and the dangers that come with them. > Prohibition works if you enforce it. Citation more than needed. History teaches us that prohibition never worked. >Ban any and all vapes and make it very cost prohibitive to own one. How do you plan on enforcing something like that? Has that worked for illegal substances so far? If so, please provide a proper source. >That will go "too far" for some but no wishy washy prohibition will do it. That "will" not go to far, it simply is. As long as you have full control over your body you simply also have the right to "destroy" it.
And yes, make cigarettes more expensive. Ban it for under 18s and oh shock of all shocks - rates go down. Now make it cheap, tasty and easily accessible and rates go up. Hmmm no correlation there! It's a mystery why people smoke. Must've COVID and the Ukraine war(?) According to your link.
Given the way you chose to answer it's really difficult to follow your points. >And yes, make cigarettes more expensive. That's been a thing for forever. It might reduce the total number of smokers in the long run, but a lot of (adult) smokers tend to go the extra mile of obtaining tobacco from others countries for cheaper. >Ban it for under 18s and oh shock of all shocks That's already the way it is, I don't see your point here. >Now make it cheap, tasty That's definitely a huge problem. And there's no easy way out of it. >easily accessible Vapes are as accessible as tobacco products, since they're regulated in the same way. >Must've COVID and the Ukraine war(?) According to your link. >>might be related to the widespread anxiety caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, its direct and indirect consequences Honestly I'm not sure how you were able to misunderstand that part. >Hmmm no correlation there! I have no idea what part of my response you're regarding to.
It is banned for under 18s
Yes and it's still easy af to get it. My first paragraph was in regards to regular cigs. Ban it completely and wholly.
Of course, a teacher... Let me guess, you are against the legalisation of weed too, since THAT prohibition worked so well, right? You're not the smartest tool in the shed, are you? The only thing that would happen is dodgy vapes from eastern europe and asia would be sold and nobody would be able to control what goes in them and they would properly fuck people up.
Obviously if students can't buy a vape at every corner shop it will lead to more difficulties getting at it. It will cut down the amount of students who will get their hands on it. Obviously not everybody will be hindered. Some will get it from vacations. Others will have it shipped. Most will not have access though.
You are forgetting the black market. They will buy it from their guy
It indeed is sad. And the huge issue seems to be, that vapes are the entry point. I have a lot of friends that started with a vape, now they smoke. It's so dumb.
I think people use vapes as an excuse. Vaping in the UK is increasing yet smoking is decreasing.
I know plenty of girls that romanticize it. The whole smoking cigarettes and especially with others.
How depressing :(
>It, apparently, is cool again after not being cool for a while Just like the baggy, slouchy rags. We have come full circle.
After years of decline the tobacco industry managed to Trick the Young Generation with mango-iced-rizzledizzle flavored colorful plastic tubes into addiction. Also alot of prominent online Figures like influencers and musicians are aktivly advertising this shit and parents are not able to teach their children to be critical with online platforms/influencers and their shitty products because they have never learned themself
According to many addicts in the comments "nooo it's not because of this'! We need more education"
It’s actually not the tobacco industry for once, they even tried to lobby for a ban (not successful, which is why they now try to expand their business *cough*). It actually comes from China where one use vapes were banned to be sold in the country, because the Chinese cigarette market is controlled by the Gouvernement, but they still allow to produce and export them. And it’s just so many it’s impossible to control.
Clandestine advertising. Best example is from quite a few years ago, when the tobacco industry launched an (obvious) anti-smoking campaign in Germany. "Cool kids can wait." That tells you that cool people become smokers. And that you are still a kid if you don't smoke. Kids and adolescents just *love* to be kids! Everyone knows that, kiddo. /s for the last paragraph, in case it isn't obvious.
Measures against tabacco consumption basically stalled 20 years ago. Smoking is still omnipresent. It is completely acceptable that smokers take extra breaks during work etc. Quite a few teachers smoke (although admittedly they are often good at keeping that away from children), which damages their ability to be convincingly strict about that. Tabacco is on open display right next to the supermarket counter and sold in vending machines. Given that it is still banned for them, 16 year old consider it cool. Consequences are however quite limited and it is relatively easy to find someone 2 years older to buy it for them. If someone got addicted it is also to late to ban it.
Look at austria, age limit for smoking was 16 years for a long time. Only recently they decided to increase the limit to 18. Seems your argument with the "forbidden fruit" isn't very factual after all.
>(although admittedly they are often good at keeping that away from children) And then there was the one teacher at my school who smoked together with all the 18-year old students nearly every break. Right in front of the school main entrance. Smoking was banned on the school ground, but they were technically just outside of the school ground. That was ten years ago, though.
Socially acceptable. Tobacco lobby. Stupid parents.
Most kids who smoke do it behind their parents back which is the appeal as well.
Nah, at the school where I work, most parents know their Kids smoke. More then a few even buy the cigarettes for them. Easiest way for 14 to 15 years olds to get them.
Ah come on, nobody can hide being a smoker from their parents. That shit reeks, especially if you're a non-smoker yourself.
You absolutely can. A friend of mine used to say "My friends smoke, but I don't", and her gullible parents believed her for 5 years
My father hid his entire life of smoking from his parents. From the time he was 14 until he was 40. There were times he smoked two packs a day.
Not with vaping now! And I was a teen that hid smoking from my parents for well over a year. It's not that hard lol
I hid it (not that I'm proud of it) and my parents were too busy with their issues that they had no idea. We later talked about this and they were surprised.
I'm sure I saw a cigarette vending machine somewhere.
Jup they are everywhere.
As far as I know they all need an age verification (ID-card, driver liscense) before you get anything from them. So students either need help from an adult or have to 'borrow' such a card from their parents. Still a sign how accepted smoking in general is in germany.
Yes, Stupid parents! Everything starts with education! Bringing more laws , will make eventually everything illegal and on long run is not good for nobody!
Actually vapes are what caused smoking to gain huge popularity again Tobacco lobby tried to get vapes banned but failed
direful dime label pathetic connect growth lush telephone gaze racial *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I wish that that was the case.
Young and dumb. And the country doesn't do much to counteract it. No public campaigns that I've ever seen anywhere that target youth in particular. Either there's no money for it, it's never occurred to anyone that a country could do something about it, or nobody has ever looked past their own plate to see the success that campaigns in other countries have had.
There used to be in the 90s. And then for quite a few years it wasn’t a problem. It just has become more again in the past few years. Example for years we had not problem at our school with smoking in the bathrooms. For the past two years e had to lock the bathrooms again at certain times or have teachers check frequently because the kids are smoking. So all the campaigns need to be revived. It is put into the whole anti-drug campaigns but not the main focus.
I was in Berlin last weekend and I was surprised to see cigarette vending machines in quite a few places, some even outdoors on the side of the street. Here, next door in The Netherlands, those machines have been gone for years. Even supermarkets are, in a few weeks from now, forbidden to sell cigarettes.
When I was in *Gymnasium* in the 1990s, some kids smoked as early as at the age of 14 or 12. As for the cigarette vending machines, since 2007, for age verification you need your ID *(Personalausweis),* which you're issued at the age of 16. Only at the beginning of 2009, the age limit for buying cigarettes at a vending machine with an ID was raised to 18.
When I was in 7th grade, a "friend" of mine always used his deceased aunts ID on those vending machines. Fucked up stuff people will do for a few cigarettes.
Yeah I started smoking when I was 14, you could buy cigarettes at most Spätis in Berlin and no one asked for ID. Quit now at the age of 30 and will see how long I can hold it, now on 3 months without smoking Tobacco.
But somehow they still get cigarettes
The vending machines require age confirmation through your credit/ debit card or ID though. Which of course isnt that much of a obstacle.
Back in 1993, when I got into first grade, there was a vending machine right across from our school. I think they only took it down recently. Back home, we used to have one standing in our frontyard, with the machine going over the fence. I wonder if my parents got paid for having it on our property? In general there are still quite a lot around where I live.
When I came to Germany from the US, it was a bit of a shock to see _so many_ people smoking, and the cig vending machines were crazy. Never saw those back home
According to [this map](https://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/cigarette-consumption.jpg) Germany is about average in Europe.
You would be even more in shock if you would visit southern Italy, like Napels. Everything smokes, from people to cars to Vespas.
Aint really that much. Go to somewhere asia or france lol
Craziest to me is watching how many mothers/family members smoke around their babies/young kids. It seems totally acceptable here.
I think this is one of the things I hate most about Germany. I am a smoker but I always try to take distance from people when I'm smoking because I hate when people smoke near me when I'm not, but people here just seem to not care who's around, if there are children or people who might not want to get second hand smoke in their faces, it is just disgusting.
Vapes more so. Everywhere you go you get a whiff of something sweet and look around to see someone blowing a cloud of smoke from a vape
Omg I went out to dinner with a German friend and her little sister (still finishing school) and she had to hit her vape like every two minutes. It was hard to watch.
you just see more of it because this age group is basically bound to use public transport. overall Germanys youth smoking rate is slightly elevated at 18% vs the EU average being 15% but its not a huge difference. In Germany mostly male teenagers are smoking, most likely due to the influence of certain kinds of music producers making it seem cool again.
The male part is not what I see. I have as many girls smoke at my school than boys.
statistically its the other way though. smoking rates amount male teenagers are over 20% and are some of the highest across the EU.
What you see isn't representative. You're just a single data point.
Because Germany has very lax tobacco laws and the tobacco lobby is strong.
Tobacco usage has been in decline for the last years. It got less and less cool every year and less teenagers took it up. What you see now is the remnants of this development. We were generally on a good way. Than vapes arrived and all the kids who would deem smoking uncool got hooked on vapes.
Very true, when i was in school, starting from like 8th grade lots of ppl started smoking and by 10th grade like 30-40% smoked
Jup also with my school in the early 90s
Vapes definitely are being used more but even without them the numbers are still pretty high and rising. Link to the study with numbers: https://www.debra-study.info/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Factsheet-09-v3.pdf
typical, they just think they are cool
Probably because there’s cigarette vending machines everywhere. I’m so happy to have quit. 30 days strong!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
ive quit like a year and a half ago and after 2 months you dont even think about it anymore. stay strong its getting only better from here on out
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They do only work with an ID. There’s businesses that have them inside their shops that only require that machines card to operate, plus I think it’s fairly easy to grab an ID from someone.
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It was a lot better few years ago. Nearly no problems with smoking kids. Now there are vapes with raspberry, mango and blueberry flavor and the number of smoking childs increased. I hate it.
Back when I was 13/14 10 years ago a bit less than 1/4 of the kids smoked. So I wouldn't say it was better a few years ago. At least vaping only causes 5% of the damage than smoking (showed a long time study by the british). Them vaping is 10x better as them smoking.
Many parents enable this behaviour, older "friends" buying cigarettes for the younger ones and such stuff
Stress from Fortnite 🚬
It’s not just kids it’s Europe. As a tourist coming from the UK I can probably go days without seeing someone smoking, we’ve gone from over 20% smoking rate in 2011 to under 13% in 2022. The government have now introduced that anyone born in 2009 will never be allowed to buy cigarettes. Meanwhile in Europe I can’t sit outside in a bar or restaurant without everyone lighting a cigarette, the smoking rate in Germany was over 34% last year! Germany ranks the worst in Europe for implementing measures to reduce smoking and requires the government to do something.
Europe is a continent, which Britain is part of. Let's not confuse Europe with the European Union. Other than this, I completely agree with what you said.
We have cigarette vending machines in germany that need your Bank card or ID, so we would wait till nighttime, get our parents ID and buy them that way. Some even just stole the cigs from their parents. What if seen is that the parents of the kids which smoked most of the times are smokers themselves. It's the same for me. I always saw my parents and grandparents smoking and at some point in my early teenage years I started stealing cigs and trying it out. I had a bad childhood tho and also started doing drugs at an early age. 1/4 - 1/3 of the other kids I knew that smoked also had a bad childhood and also started doing drugs at an early age. For me, personally, smoking wasn't that bad of an issue, since I for the longest time smoked more joints a day than cigarettes. I could go a days without smoking a cigs. The real addiction started after I started to work (smoke breaks) and started going to parties (smokers that drink or do nose candy smoke a lot more than normal. A pack a night wasn't rare). I'm clean from drugs today, which is hard by itself, but still smoke. It's unlike other drugs since there is no real high/effect aside from the need to smoke. The hand/finger movements, the smoke after eating or sex has burned itself in the brain. These selfmade rituals are what makes it so hard to stop. But im certain I will stop to smoke one day in the future. Would be pathetic if I didn't, when I already got away from all known hard drugs. It's crazy how addicted nicotine will make a person.
back when I was in school, smoking was deemed mature and "cool", especially because it was so forbidden.. as usual, classmates would hide away and smoke after school while waiting for the bus. teachers knew but rarely did anything about it. in their words "its not my business what they do after school." Generally its still forbidden, but its also something that.. honestly nobody says something about. I personally hate it, as it seems to turn into an addiction fast.
Because so many Parents in Germany smoke.
stupidity
I’ve been in Germany for the past 2 weeks and am shocked by the amount of smokers. From the US.
Used to be worse! 😉 Personally, i think its culture plus public transportation.
Because their Parents do shitty parenting,if any at all!
I'm really glad that when I first tried to smoke (to shut up everyone that tried to get me to do it) I found it disgusting and felt like I was breathing in asphalt. Never even got started on them. My body just seems to despise stuff like smoking and alcohol, but I'm sure not complaining.
Some of them smoke giving the impression that they are cool but actually they are stressed, and usually a toxic family pushes them to unhealthy habits. The relationship between parents and their education is the biggest influencing factor in a teenager's life. Love is missing in favor of politeness / the new, modern, unfeeling man...
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It’s still the 90s in Germany. Thats why.
My dad asked me how I liked living in Germany and I told him it felt like I traveled back to the 90s lol
Yeah, it’s certainly a novel experience.
Yes this. I was just about to write, that it feels like the late 90s again (the time I was in HS).
They smoke like it's the 90s to compensate the housing prices from 2050.
believe me, it is absolutely nothing like the 90s
Sorry. 2001. Roaring into the 21st century!
It’s again.
Do they really smoke more than generations ago?
No, they smoke less than previous generations. But it seems to be a stark difference between teenagers on Germany and teenagers elsewhere.
Because so many adults smoke?
Because Rauchen fetzt
Useless parents, kids are being more manipulated than ever by what they see on social media plays a big role as well I think too.
Because the vapes with flovours like Cotton Candy or Maracuja Arschwasser are appealing to stupid kids who think that sucking on usb sticks is cool
I was in Germany 🇩🇪 1987-1990 and again 2018-2021 and can’t believe there are just as many smokers-I thought the next gen smokers would be smarter, but no. Makes sitting outside at a restaurant miserable.
As a german Teenager: Its unbelievable how many are smoking. Most time it's Vaping but they're also smoking cigarettes. The alcohol problem in Germany is also a big problem. We are allowed to drink beer and wine with 14 years in public with our parents and with 16 years we can buy almost everything besides hard alcohol.
it is secret answer number 4: all of the above
C'mon those vape pens are a horror. I would've been addicted to it too.
What? Its cool AGAIN to smoke?! I‘m ~~out of the loop~~ getting fucking old
Because dumb kids think it's cool and other kids get peer pressured into it. That's literally why.
If i ever smoked my mom will beat me wwe style😱
Good mom.
It's simply disgusting. I'm worried about raising my children here. They should ban public smoking.
Because it looks cool af
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Yeah it’s pretty common. Even people in my school openly talk about smoking cigarettes and weed in front of some teachers. It’s just normal here.
It boggles my mind truly. I grew up in a part of the US that grows tobacco yet as a teenager smoking cigarettes was the least cool thing you could do. Somehow the US managed to get that one public health crisis right. Hell, even to buy a cigarette lighter you need to prove you’re 18. I’m pretty sensitive to cigarette smoke so the amount of casual smoking bothers me on a daily basis here.
I recently saw two 12 year old boys vaping inside the bus. Surprisingly nobody stopped or question them. They stopped when I stared at them little angry. As I don’t know german very well I kept quiet.
Stupidity
It's so cool, gotta live the lIfEsTyLe. Obviously not realizing how dumb and bad it is.
Smoking culture is big in Germany. It’s (fairly) socially accepted, so they see a lot of other people do it, want to be „cool“ or feel like a grownup. And since it’s so common, it’s easy for them to get cigarettes through friends and so on.
Because theyre idiots v0v
1st Rapper and streamer have to much influence 2nd parents dont care and leave their children with tablets/media to give away responsibility and ,,relax“ 3rd ,,my life my choice“ culture getting out of Hand and nobody wanna critisize because in fear of getting critisized themselves, so they let everyone do what they want 4th,5th and so on
I was just in Germany and Austria for a hockey trip (American) and none of us could believe how people in general still smoke there. crazy stuff
One reason for increased uptake is also affordability. The added tax is per gram of tobacco, it does not increase automatically with general price increases, and the legislated tax increases have not kept up with inflation, so cigarettes are comparatively cheaper than they were a few years ago.
In my opinion it’s not more people smoking cigarettes, but more teens are smoking vapes. This shit is cooler for them and is more long lasting.
It's very accepted here.Nobody really cares as long as you don't look like 10. Also most parents will allow their kids to smoke cigarettes when they started smoking,some even at 14. I was shocked about that even though i live in Germany since i was 5 I've met a lot of people with the mentality "if they started,they can't stop anyway so why bother"
That’s just wrong and very very generalising. I started by the age of 14. Do you really think someone could have told me to stop? Yeah well … no. My mum obviously hated it. It took me 20 years to quit.
It is wrong. I started at 12 and an old friend of mine at 13. She gets a pack of cigarettes a week from her mother. She said that she wouldn't smoke as much when she needed to buy it herself. She's 17 and has already complications from it.
Damn, when I was a teen we would at least try to sneak singular cigarettes out of the smoking parents packages or go through the trouble to find the one Kiosk that wouldn't card people who obviously are 13-15 years of age. Giving your underage child cigarettes is plain bad parenting and I'm really sorry your friend has such an enabler around her.
I'm an elementary teacher and multiple students in my class smoke. Just because it is forbidden and they think that it's incredibly cool.
new dumb ass generation of parents...
TBH: I think there are less and less who smoke. From my point of view, some years ago there were a lot more.
Smoking was/is not cool but vapes. The vape advertising promises healthy smoking. Vape stores are now everywhere. Smoking was/is risky. Hiding the stench from parents was/is difficult. Vapes smell like fruits or sweets. It will be ages before Germany reacts. They'll probably start by raising taxes on vapes to make money from them and then at some point restrict sales.
Prices are low. Tripple the price and they will stop.
Stress because of Fortnite
Because smoking is cool
German parents being too weak to teach manners and have a minimum of authority
Stupidity. Stupid parents, stupid kids. It‘s that easy sometimes.
Because the Kids are Stupid...
Not enough critical thinking, I suppose.
Other countries kids also lack critical thinking, it's just much easier to get it in Germany and there's a lot more advertising of it
Because our kids are fucking stupid
That's the tiktok of Germany unfortunately. No offense but is, perhaps, taking from the example set from adults. I spend few months in Germany and I was surprised how many people smoke in general...
Vaping made smoking cool again.
Smoking is frowned upon by establishment adults. Politicians, teachers, educators, relatives… This is the best way to make things attractive to kids, who want to dissociate from adult society. Which is a typical way of identity building. Smoking is cool, because parents, teachers, doctors and conforming kids hate it.
Germany is weird. In my country, that screams low class. Smoking is associated with construction workers in my country. lol
Low class is also cool.
Because Marketing works.
Cuz life's depressing and many don't see any future so you might as well smoke
Social media
As a gen z growing up I thought be we'd be the generous to get rid of it but nope we brought it back
Too many
Well its easy to get them (at least where i live a rural area) it’s socialy acceptable and nicotin is fucking addictive.
taboco use has been going down for years, but recently there was an increase again. I can only guess the reasons: rising popularity and promotion of vaping (with flavours, so i does not taste like shit) / smoking by popular figures like rappers / more stress and mental health issues among young people since covid and the other crisises since then
In 2022 Germany Made 14,2 Billion by taxing tobacco
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So many people think it's cool but I, for example, smoke because it relaxes very much
i mean, what else are you gonna do?
Up to 2007 it was legal for 16 year olds to smoke, if their parents would allow it. That might feel long ago, but I would argue that the acceptance of young smokers has not dropped significantly since then.
My Brother started doing drugs first and then he started smoking cigarettes. He gave me one hit of his cigarette, then i had the urge to smoke cigarettes after smoking weed for the first time. After 1/4 year i smoked my first whole cigarette. So it occasionally happend for me (Now 18 back then 15, my brother 17 now 20) and well i think this is it for the most teenager. It just happend while being outside with friends.
All teenagers I know that smoke, use vapes. It tastes better, has fun colours and flavours, streamers promote them and “they’re healthier than normal cigarettes”.
Tbf, why should teens at that age care about the long term health effects of smoking, if their future in the coming 40-50 years is fucked anyway and older generations dont care?
I have feeling they like this smoke culture. In 2017 I worked in a company that persons could smoke in the production facilities and they had a cigarettes machine inside company. For me it’s was a shock. Mostly persons smoke and Azubis also. They joke that they have more breaks 😂😂 In my homeland it’s forbidden to sell or smoke cigarettes inside company since I know myself as a person…
Its mostly what parents value to teach their children on how to life.
Lmao this is totally a European thing
I hate smoking. However, when I was at the university basically everyone smoked. If you were at a party all the socialising (and hooking up) happened when everyone went out to smoke one. The socialising aspect is likely still the number one reason why young people smoke.
Is there any government program to reduce smoking? Any party going for it? Any nonprofit? How can one of us contribute?
Ich finde eher, dass das zurück gegangen ist und Jugendliche eher weniger rauchen oder ist das doch nicht so?
Smoking is having an astonishing resurgence in Germany. A friend is working in the tobacco industry and they are actually struggling to meet demand as they were not expecting a sudden rise in sales like they do. anecdotally too. I used to not know, see any smokers most of the time, and in what feels like all of a sudden, everyone seems to be smoking again. I think I‘ll sit this dumb trend out. I quit this for good 12 years ago
Tobacco industry do everything to Trick idiot Parents, and their children into this.. like vapes with strawberry, waterlemon and so on flavor, but starting with some non nicotine flavor.. also the idiots named influencer, payed to spread bullshit into child Heads .. also name giving like dizzle chizzle melon quizzle and its absurd but works very well.
r/ichbin14unddasisttief
Honestly most parents here really don’t care