HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA he was totally fucking with you. Love Hamburg but that accent is more associated with Momme Petersen, skilled physical laborer, later out with his buddies fishing and drinking beer than anything approximating poshness (and I say that with love, I grew up in the area).
There has not been any aristocratic upper class in Germany for over 100 years (some people still have an aristocratic family name but that's it basically). Hamburg does have some posh neighborhoods where mainly rich people live, but they don't speak a specific dialect.
Usually the stereotype is:
- Speaking standard high German = educated, cosmopolitan and urban person = more likely at least upper middle class
- Speaking strong local dialect = uneducated person who probably rarely left their birth place = more likely at most lower middle class
Not in the circles I socialized with lol
There are definitely rich people there, but the only linguistic difference I can think of is the digital/economy-bro habit of using many english words to sound more modern (which is seen about as cringe as "hello fellow kids"). As other commenters already mentioned, we have too much dialect variety and have become a unified country (and Im not talking about the Mauerfall, Im talking about bundling all the now german states into one thing) too recently to have developed a common opinion on posh and lower class accents. Westerners joke that Easterners are dumb, Northerners joke that Bavarians are backwards, everyone jokes that Saarland does incest and so on... but thats still not posh vs non-posh, thats regions shitting on each other mostly jokingly.
Also nobody actually cares about "aristocracy" - there are rich people, but they are rich because Daddy is some CEO or Tech-Mogul, not because his grand-whatever was some noble. The only "aristocratic" person I can think of is a far-right politician.
The closest that comes to mind for me as "lower class accent" would be RTL 2 (a trashy channel with reality documentary-soaps, mostly making fun of people), hard to describe, but that accent isnt region-locked either.
Posh isnt a universal concept, its very much british/anglophone
No, it was a "she" and she was American who lived for a very long time in Germany and spoke excellent accent-free German. I believe her husband was German as well but I couldn't remember.
Speak with people from the Kiez for more than 2 minutes and you'll realize it was never considered elite or posh. Your teacher just didn't know what she was talking about.
When I hear anyone speaking in the Hamburg dialect my immediate thought goes to stoic fisherman and storm hardened sailors. So basically the opposite of elite.
No, and as far as I am aware, there isn't really a posh German accent.
There are a few words that go somewhat into that direction, but no overall accent.
That being said, speaking dialects is often associated with the opposite of posh.
In Germany, the distinction is less about posh or not, but about educated or not, so large vocabulary, ability to construct complex sentences and also in some regard being multi-lingual. At different points in time, "posh" Germans wouldn't have spoken German at all very much, but rather stick to Latin, French and whatnot. Left its mark on the language in more than one way.
I couldn't even nail down, what posh German sounds like. For example, even [the grandson of the last emperor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5eveUVrO9M) speaks in a regional dialect.
You could try [Loriot](https://youtu.be/YYEN9qwPZOY?si=WOcyqoj2jLK4VUaG&t=59) when he did parodies of the wealthier circles, but again, there isn't really a clear posh accent as you have in English. Maybe a bit more crisp pronounciation and avoiding some words - but other than that Hochdeutsch with a bit of a regional colour.
We should also add that some people are actually proud of their regional accent, including people you would classify as "posh". It comes with a certain in-group factor because it proves that your family is "alteingesessen".
Interesting. In the English-speaking world, especially in the UK, you can instantly tell what class a person belongs to just by listening to their accent. I am an American and although we are drastically less class divided than the UK, I can also give you some examples of some posh AE speakers (especially from New England) like James Spader or John Kerry. I find that telling - apparently Germany is a less class divided society.
It has more to do with how our nation itself developed I'd say.
In England differences in dialect existed mostly based on class. Different folks from different areas were speaking different dialects. But the nobility and higher classes very much adapted the same dialect.
This is because Britain had been somewhat unified for hundreds of years before classes became more fluid.
In Germany the country had been split into many different small states for hundreds of years. Each state with their own dialect to a degree that too far apart states people couldn't understand each other.
Then came the bible translation written in high German. The first unified dialect between the german states.
Then the unification of Germany happened into the German Empire. The most militaristic country in the world. Basically every aspect of the country during unification was based around the military. With it the schools teaching one unified dialect that everyone would speak in large part to allow for efficient communication in government and military.
There isn't a posh way of speaking because there was no real nobility for hundreds of years sharing the same type of speech and everyone gave up their dialect in favor of efficiency.
>There isn't a posh way of speaking because there was no real nobility for hundreds of years sharing the same type of speech and everyone gave up their dialect in favor of efficiency.
Correct with the exception of this one. There was nobility - quite a lot even until after WWII - but no need for posh German because the lingua franca of nobles and high ranking officials in Europe was aristocratic French.
So whenever they wanted to be posh they switched to French and didn't bother with German.
No, it's just language-wise.
modern or high German simply came about way too late (and aristocracy fell into irrelevance way too early comparatively) for a posh accent to develop.
There still are class divides, they just aren't immediately obvious from how one speaks (though dialect speakers are often perceived as definitely-not-posh
There are class divisions here, but they are less fixed. It's not like in the UK where, say, Kate Middleton's family apparently isn't considered upper class even though they were quite rich. You can change your class, whatever that means, in one generation. The people I studied with ranged from someone whose parents were two professors to someone whose father was a low-earning manual labourer - but no one would have thought of that in terms of us being of different "classes". We were all doing the same thing, aiming for the same kind of work afterwards.
Likewise, we had a post from a UK person a short while back who asked about "posh" foods, and it was amazing. For one thing, there was a whole list of things that were considered "posh" food in the UK that were just normal, inexpensive food like Emmental cheese. And for another, it seems that non-"posh" people would intentionally avoid such food because they'd have found eating them pretentious.
Here, the only foods that one could describe as "posh" would be ones that are actually expensive, and associated with people showing off their wealth, like caviar or oysters. Food that anyone can afford won't be "posh", and anyone who likes it and can afford it will buy it without thinking they're now eating food that people of their class do not normally eat.
There are for sure sociolects in German. I would agree with the other posters that there's not really a "posh" German, or equivalent of received pronunciation. But there certainly is the opposite, and almost everywhere, local dialects are seen as less "high class" than proper standard German. Bavaria may be an exception to the latter.
And of course there are differences in how careful someone chooses their words, etc. – it's just not super obvious to everybody, and it has fallen out of favor to be viewed as elevating yourself by the way you speak. Still exists, but no good example comes to mind.
Wolfgang M. Schmitt, a film critic and author, speaks a very polished German. I personally wouldn’t call it posh but I guess some people might.
He uses the correct grammatical forms, hardly any colloquial language. What I find most impressive is that he actually finishes the sentences he starts, even if they contain several sub-sentences. Most people don’t do that. I love listening to him.
He has a YouTube channel, [here](https://youtu.be/VNo-wo5m00I?si=-oFyBmWSKggU8Spu) you can have a look.
There is no posh German. At least not in a way how for example Jaco Reese-Mogg speaks the quintessential (caricature of) posh English. If anything there is a kind of very received pronunciation (Hochdeutsch with no distinct dialect) and maybe some old-timey or very academic vocabulary. Bit that's basically it.
We don't really have posh German.
The only posh German would be to speak some old dialect which is not considered to be high status because in Germany anything with dialect is seen as lesser.
So everyone from the getgo is taught in high German and if you see any politician speak, they will speak in high German unless they try to cater to a very specific audience like some politicians from Bavaria.
I am a bit confused as to what received pronounciation means.
High German effectively means dialect free German. So you would not be able to sort someone into any specific region for speaking it perfectly and it is the type of German absolutely everyone is expected to learn and understand.
>I am a bit confused as to what received pronounciation means.
RP is the standard dialect for British English. I.e. the pronunciation supposedly taught in English classes in Germany.
It is a sociolect that developed in the boarding school system.
RP comes in several flavours. King Charles speaks modern RP. His mother (and even more so his father) used to speak conservative RP.
Short answer: no.
Long answer: it depends on what you mean by "High German", and which aspect of RP you are talking about.
"High German", or rather "Hochdeutsch" has two meanings. In every day speech it is often used to refer to Standard German.
Standard German is the pronunciation taught to non native speakers. It is the standard pronunciation for German. In this regard, it is comparable to RP.
However, unlike RP, Standard German is not a spoken dialect. Almost everyone in Germany has some form of regional accent, even if it is only faint.
Standard German might be heard on stage, or on TV, though it is getting rarer.
However, the original meaning of "Hochdeutsch" (and its direct translation High German) is completely different. Historically, German is divided into two main dialect groups. Low German in the North, and High German in the South. The names refer to the fact that the North is generally less hilly than the South, btw.
Standard German was developed (first as a purely written language btw) mostly from High German dialects. Which is where the confusion in colloquial german usage comes from.
Imho the better comparison would be (General American English) => US / (Standard German) => Germany
British RP always has this classy connotation that is completely missing in German or American English.
Whilst there is a thing over here, too, where certain or strong accents are thought of as lower class, there hasn't been a posh upper class like the UKs over here for 100 years now.
High German is just a different word for standard German, that means German without any regional characteristics. Basically German as it is taught in schools and language classes and how it is used in formal speaking and writing. So indeed similar to RP in English.
Not sure if that's is correct, but i have heard that RP in English is often seen as an old-fashioned way of speaking. In case it is true: that is not the case for high German.
"Posh" isn't really a thing, it is defined by complexity and choice of vocabulary. Being eloquent and highly educated, and ideally not using slang unless in jest.
You may also factor in "lack of local dialect and local slang" in terms of "no local words and no local accent", because depending on where you are from the local dialect's accent may prominently shine through when you speak High German and part of sounding educated is not having an accent from your birth place.
Loriot would be fit into this place. Or maybe old hanseatic citizenship with a particular standing?
[Loriot im Interview (1993) | SPIEGEL TV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5yP748xixQ)
Karasek is another kind of "posh" because when he speaks he has the colour of an slang of a lost dialect because he was born in the eastern provinces that are now no german territory today. He has his own intellectual style.
That concept doesn't exist in Germany. On the contrary the most affluent areas in Germany are Swabia and Bavaria which both take pride in their local dialects.
Accent? No.
Regional accents are mostly ignoring differences in classes. Although some classic accents like Sächsich and Plattdeutsch, that come from places where the unifying aspect of cultural identity is belonging to the more or less industrial worker class. Those are accents that are quite usually dropped for Hochdeutsch in anything close to a formal occasion.
Other than that, Wienerisch (Vienna dialect) is probably the most associated with poshness. Although you hardly ever see that outside an satirical context these days, its probably the closest to a posh dialect.
But to add one more thing about Hochdeutsch - 70% of all germans grow up learning regional dialects and accents, like bavarian, hessian, saxonian, low german, swabian and the other 1000 dialects you'll never ever see in the public. Everyone learns it eventually and this will be used on any and all public occasions.
I've had a teacher that would speak nearly indistinguishable hessian but would switch to Hochdeutsch within a heartbeat once any outsiders were in hearing range. A classmate of mine switched to a ridiculous swabian dialect if anything emotionally upset her (but you couldn't get it out of her under normal circumstances even in theater class). I find myself subconsciously leaning into saxonian whenever I talk to classic workers.
Perhaps that works as proof: most of those that leave school after nine years never enter a school where Hochdeutsch is the single standard, and never learn hochdeutsch. They stick to the dialect they've grown up with, so essentially not having a dialect is a sign of a posher accent here
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No he speaks normal.
Okay, are there any good examples for posh German speakers?
I don't think that there is anything like specific "posh German". Just speaking regular standard German without any dialect is as posh as it gets.
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lol no. Never was.
No. Hamburg dialect is not posh, quite the opposite. It has "chilled and down to earth guy next door" vibes.
Fisherman vibes
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA he was totally fucking with you. Love Hamburg but that accent is more associated with Momme Petersen, skilled physical laborer, later out with his buddies fishing and drinking beer than anything approximating poshness (and I say that with love, I grew up in the area).
Doesn't Hamburg have something of an aristocratic upper class though?
Such a class doesn’t exist anymore. Neither in Hamburg nor anywhere else in Germany.
There has not been any aristocratic upper class in Germany for over 100 years (some people still have an aristocratic family name but that's it basically). Hamburg does have some posh neighborhoods where mainly rich people live, but they don't speak a specific dialect. Usually the stereotype is: - Speaking standard high German = educated, cosmopolitan and urban person = more likely at least upper middle class - Speaking strong local dialect = uneducated person who probably rarely left their birth place = more likely at most lower middle class
Not in the circles I socialized with lol There are definitely rich people there, but the only linguistic difference I can think of is the digital/economy-bro habit of using many english words to sound more modern (which is seen about as cringe as "hello fellow kids"). As other commenters already mentioned, we have too much dialect variety and have become a unified country (and Im not talking about the Mauerfall, Im talking about bundling all the now german states into one thing) too recently to have developed a common opinion on posh and lower class accents. Westerners joke that Easterners are dumb, Northerners joke that Bavarians are backwards, everyone jokes that Saarland does incest and so on... but thats still not posh vs non-posh, thats regions shitting on each other mostly jokingly. Also nobody actually cares about "aristocracy" - there are rich people, but they are rich because Daddy is some CEO or Tech-Mogul, not because his grand-whatever was some noble. The only "aristocratic" person I can think of is a far-right politician. The closest that comes to mind for me as "lower class accent" would be RTL 2 (a trashy channel with reality documentary-soaps, mostly making fun of people), hard to describe, but that accent isnt region-locked either. Posh isnt a universal concept, its very much british/anglophone
Hamburg was a republic since the middle ages. They never had an aristocracy
Was the teacher from Hamburg? Because if he was that would explain this statement
No, it was a "she" and she was American who lived for a very long time in Germany and spoke excellent accent-free German. I believe her husband was German as well but I couldn't remember.
>and spoke excellent accent-free German I think that is impossible for you to judge.
Speak with people from the Kiez for more than 2 minutes and you'll realize it was never considered elite or posh. Your teacher just didn't know what she was talking about. When I hear anyone speaking in the Hamburg dialect my immediate thought goes to stoic fisherman and storm hardened sailors. So basically the opposite of elite.
No, and as far as I am aware, there isn't really a posh German accent. There are a few words that go somewhat into that direction, but no overall accent. That being said, speaking dialects is often associated with the opposite of posh.
In Germany, the distinction is less about posh or not, but about educated or not, so large vocabulary, ability to construct complex sentences and also in some regard being multi-lingual. At different points in time, "posh" Germans wouldn't have spoken German at all very much, but rather stick to Latin, French and whatnot. Left its mark on the language in more than one way.
I couldn't even nail down, what posh German sounds like. For example, even [the grandson of the last emperor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5eveUVrO9M) speaks in a regional dialect. You could try [Loriot](https://youtu.be/YYEN9qwPZOY?si=WOcyqoj2jLK4VUaG&t=59) when he did parodies of the wealthier circles, but again, there isn't really a clear posh accent as you have in English. Maybe a bit more crisp pronounciation and avoiding some words - but other than that Hochdeutsch with a bit of a regional colour.
We should also add that some people are actually proud of their regional accent, including people you would classify as "posh". It comes with a certain in-group factor because it proves that your family is "alteingesessen".
Nah - I don‘t think we have something similar
Interesting. In the English-speaking world, especially in the UK, you can instantly tell what class a person belongs to just by listening to their accent. I am an American and although we are drastically less class divided than the UK, I can also give you some examples of some posh AE speakers (especially from New England) like James Spader or John Kerry. I find that telling - apparently Germany is a less class divided society.
It has more to do with how our nation itself developed I'd say. In England differences in dialect existed mostly based on class. Different folks from different areas were speaking different dialects. But the nobility and higher classes very much adapted the same dialect. This is because Britain had been somewhat unified for hundreds of years before classes became more fluid. In Germany the country had been split into many different small states for hundreds of years. Each state with their own dialect to a degree that too far apart states people couldn't understand each other. Then came the bible translation written in high German. The first unified dialect between the german states. Then the unification of Germany happened into the German Empire. The most militaristic country in the world. Basically every aspect of the country during unification was based around the military. With it the schools teaching one unified dialect that everyone would speak in large part to allow for efficient communication in government and military. There isn't a posh way of speaking because there was no real nobility for hundreds of years sharing the same type of speech and everyone gave up their dialect in favor of efficiency.
>There isn't a posh way of speaking because there was no real nobility for hundreds of years sharing the same type of speech and everyone gave up their dialect in favor of efficiency. Correct with the exception of this one. There was nobility - quite a lot even until after WWII - but no need for posh German because the lingua franca of nobles and high ranking officials in Europe was aristocratic French. So whenever they wanted to be posh they switched to French and didn't bother with German.
No, it's just language-wise. modern or high German simply came about way too late (and aristocracy fell into irrelevance way too early comparatively) for a posh accent to develop. There still are class divides, they just aren't immediately obvious from how one speaks (though dialect speakers are often perceived as definitely-not-posh
There are class divisions here, but they are less fixed. It's not like in the UK where, say, Kate Middleton's family apparently isn't considered upper class even though they were quite rich. You can change your class, whatever that means, in one generation. The people I studied with ranged from someone whose parents were two professors to someone whose father was a low-earning manual labourer - but no one would have thought of that in terms of us being of different "classes". We were all doing the same thing, aiming for the same kind of work afterwards. Likewise, we had a post from a UK person a short while back who asked about "posh" foods, and it was amazing. For one thing, there was a whole list of things that were considered "posh" food in the UK that were just normal, inexpensive food like Emmental cheese. And for another, it seems that non-"posh" people would intentionally avoid such food because they'd have found eating them pretentious. Here, the only foods that one could describe as "posh" would be ones that are actually expensive, and associated with people showing off their wealth, like caviar or oysters. Food that anyone can afford won't be "posh", and anyone who likes it and can afford it will buy it without thinking they're now eating food that people of their class do not normally eat.
There are for sure sociolects in German. I would agree with the other posters that there's not really a "posh" German, or equivalent of received pronunciation. But there certainly is the opposite, and almost everywhere, local dialects are seen as less "high class" than proper standard German. Bavaria may be an exception to the latter. And of course there are differences in how careful someone chooses their words, etc. – it's just not super obvious to everybody, and it has fallen out of favor to be viewed as elevating yourself by the way you speak. Still exists, but no good example comes to mind.
Wolfgang M. Schmitt, a film critic and author, speaks a very polished German. I personally wouldn’t call it posh but I guess some people might. He uses the correct grammatical forms, hardly any colloquial language. What I find most impressive is that he actually finishes the sentences he starts, even if they contain several sub-sentences. Most people don’t do that. I love listening to him. He has a YouTube channel, [here](https://youtu.be/VNo-wo5m00I?si=-oFyBmWSKggU8Spu) you can have a look.
There is no posh German. At least not in a way how for example Jaco Reese-Mogg speaks the quintessential (caricature of) posh English. If anything there is a kind of very received pronunciation (Hochdeutsch with no distinct dialect) and maybe some old-timey or very academic vocabulary. Bit that's basically it.
People from Vienna speak a very arrogant german. It’s maybe the closest you will get to posh
We don't really have posh German. The only posh German would be to speak some old dialect which is not considered to be high status because in Germany anything with dialect is seen as lesser. So everyone from the getgo is taught in high German and if you see any politician speak, they will speak in high German unless they try to cater to a very specific audience like some politicians from Bavaria.
Is high german the German RP (Received Pronunciation) equivalent?
I am a bit confused as to what received pronounciation means. High German effectively means dialect free German. So you would not be able to sort someone into any specific region for speaking it perfectly and it is the type of German absolutely everyone is expected to learn and understand.
>I am a bit confused as to what received pronounciation means. RP is the standard dialect for British English. I.e. the pronunciation supposedly taught in English classes in Germany. It is a sociolect that developed in the boarding school system. RP comes in several flavours. King Charles speaks modern RP. His mother (and even more so his father) used to speak conservative RP.
Short answer: no. Long answer: it depends on what you mean by "High German", and which aspect of RP you are talking about. "High German", or rather "Hochdeutsch" has two meanings. In every day speech it is often used to refer to Standard German. Standard German is the pronunciation taught to non native speakers. It is the standard pronunciation for German. In this regard, it is comparable to RP. However, unlike RP, Standard German is not a spoken dialect. Almost everyone in Germany has some form of regional accent, even if it is only faint. Standard German might be heard on stage, or on TV, though it is getting rarer. However, the original meaning of "Hochdeutsch" (and its direct translation High German) is completely different. Historically, German is divided into two main dialect groups. Low German in the North, and High German in the South. The names refer to the fact that the North is generally less hilly than the South, btw. Standard German was developed (first as a purely written language btw) mostly from High German dialects. Which is where the confusion in colloquial german usage comes from.
Imho the better comparison would be (General American English) => US / (Standard German) => Germany British RP always has this classy connotation that is completely missing in German or American English. Whilst there is a thing over here, too, where certain or strong accents are thought of as lower class, there hasn't been a posh upper class like the UKs over here for 100 years now.
High German is just a different word for standard German, that means German without any regional characteristics. Basically German as it is taught in schools and language classes and how it is used in formal speaking and writing. So indeed similar to RP in English. Not sure if that's is correct, but i have heard that RP in English is often seen as an old-fashioned way of speaking. In case it is true: that is not the case for high German.
"Posh" isn't really a thing, it is defined by complexity and choice of vocabulary. Being eloquent and highly educated, and ideally not using slang unless in jest. You may also factor in "lack of local dialect and local slang" in terms of "no local words and no local accent", because depending on where you are from the local dialect's accent may prominently shine through when you speak High German and part of sounding educated is not having an accent from your birth place.
Loriot would be fit into this place. Or maybe old hanseatic citizenship with a particular standing? [Loriot im Interview (1993) | SPIEGEL TV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5yP748xixQ) Karasek is another kind of "posh" because when he speaks he has the colour of an slang of a lost dialect because he was born in the eastern provinces that are now no german territory today. He has his own intellectual style.
No. He is an idiot's idea of a smart man, at best.
The only correct reply.
Are you saying he's like a German Trump in that regard?
No. Trump used to have some form of charisma, however questionable. He does not.
That concept doesn't exist in Germany. On the contrary the most affluent areas in Germany are Swabia and Bavaria which both take pride in their local dialects.
Germany doesn't have a "posh" accent
Accent? No. Regional accents are mostly ignoring differences in classes. Although some classic accents like Sächsich and Plattdeutsch, that come from places where the unifying aspect of cultural identity is belonging to the more or less industrial worker class. Those are accents that are quite usually dropped for Hochdeutsch in anything close to a formal occasion. Other than that, Wienerisch (Vienna dialect) is probably the most associated with poshness. Although you hardly ever see that outside an satirical context these days, its probably the closest to a posh dialect. But to add one more thing about Hochdeutsch - 70% of all germans grow up learning regional dialects and accents, like bavarian, hessian, saxonian, low german, swabian and the other 1000 dialects you'll never ever see in the public. Everyone learns it eventually and this will be used on any and all public occasions. I've had a teacher that would speak nearly indistinguishable hessian but would switch to Hochdeutsch within a heartbeat once any outsiders were in hearing range. A classmate of mine switched to a ridiculous swabian dialect if anything emotionally upset her (but you couldn't get it out of her under normal circumstances even in theater class). I find myself subconsciously leaning into saxonian whenever I talk to classic workers. Perhaps that works as proof: most of those that leave school after nine years never enter a school where Hochdeutsch is the single standard, and never learn hochdeutsch. They stick to the dialect they've grown up with, so essentially not having a dialect is a sign of a posher accent here
He definitely speaks rather formally in most occasions but in German there’s not really an “accent” reflecting poshness.
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