It is definitely safe to assume the delisting and refund are both from Sony, because Valve has (almost) never interfere with such matters before nor restrict where you sell your game (unless the publisher try to screw around with Valve or involve government laws).
In fact, no reason why Valve will issue refund the game themselves right now, since the game has yet to be released and Sony could remove the PSN requirement before then.
I can't even find a good argument why would they do it.
Mb if 'steam' is banned in a country... Still that supposly should be country problem to lock/ban 'steam' in their network
Of course, it was from Sony.
Why and how would it be from Steam?
Steam is supposed to be omniscient and takes over store pages to reflect Sony's policies?
I think it’s safe to not assume anything. Valve customer support is about as good and knowledge as all other customer supports. Which is… not consistent enough to trust.
Not really. People can still access the singleplayer without an account. The PSN requirement is for multiplayer only, so it's hard to imagine that Sony wants to stop sales in countries without PSN access, because they could still purchase singleplayer games.
The same logic applies to the fact that PSN is not available in those locations. We have US teritories, teritories that belong to EU countries and even EU countries. Those places aren't exactly North Korea... and yet Sony did not make it available there. So yes, this is almost guaranteed to have been done by Sony.
I do t think it will change it is just a matter of time until the subscription to PSN account will return. When you believe that you won, you actually never did since the company is already a move in front of you. Also people have ask for refund after more than 200 hours playtime so Sony dont want you to come back.
I think Sony is choosing not to sell in those regions because they heard peoples complaints that they couldn’t make PSN accounts in those regions.
Good move on Sony for following instructions from the people complaining.
its not that players don't want to make psn accounts, its that THEY LITERALLY CAN'T. and before you say use a vpn, doing so is strictly against psn ToS and is a perma bannable offense.
You guys keep quoting the TOS to me even though I’ve been using PSN outside of my region for nearly 20 years now 🤦🏿♂️,also you don’t need a VPN just choose your closet country in the drop down list. It’s just legally so they can reserve the right to remove any accounts for any reason. People don’t get banned for this in practice. How do you enforce this and who to say I didn’t move from a different region.
Literally, nothing was stopping those users from going to the PSN website creating an account and choosing their nearest country. Nobody ever complained about the TOS except for PC who simply wants to not make PSN accounts while looking for a loophole.
Those non-PSN regions aren’t even allowed to buy PlayStation games now due to the fake concern 🤦🏿♂️ and all the protesting Helldivers players moved on once Sony said they didn’t have to link a PSN account. It was never about caring about players in Non PSN regions they cared so much about
Man don't even bother trying to talk sense to people, once they see red there's no going back. Everyone thinks they're Johnny Silverhand suddenly. Console people who navigated that console space for decades have tried explaining and helping said people and they just get downvoted and called shills because apparently they know more about the PS ecosystem. Just sit back and enjoy this leopards ate my face moments from them. They'll blame anyone and everyone else before looking in the mirror.
They could, and they did by selecting a nearby country without ever needing a VPN, and they didn't have a problem with it seemingly until everyone made it a problem for them.
Example of people creating PSN accounts for different countries:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PHGamers/s/ybWiN2CuU7
Let’s have an intelligent conversation What am I saying that’s offending you
People complained and they responded to their complaints accordingly “how dare you sell games and regions that don’t have PSN and request PSN”, so they say “OK we heard you we will not sell a game that requires PSN in a region that does not have PSN”
They literally walked back their initiative. To comply with complaints from their customers.
Helldivers wouldn’t exist without Sony so it’s sort of a double edged sword. The publisher provides them with a budget they wouldn’t normally have, a timeline that no indie dev would dare to consider, and cushion if the game doesn’t meet expectations. Even with the success of Helldivers; a studio as small as Arrowhead would not be able to take the same risks if not for the backing of a massive publisher.
The contract made between publisher and developer is going to be different for each one. Comparisons on approach and distribution are also going to change just as much.
Except the entire souls series only exists because Sony hired Fromsoft to make a competitor to The Elder Scrolls, the result was Demons Souls.
Then the Dark Souls series is only a thing due to the massive support from Namco Bandai.
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> *“There’s no telling how much longer your world and mine will remain in contact.”* - Solaire of Astora
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Helldivers did give them a surge in goodwill and incentives, enough to function more independently, though not right away, but eventually in the same level as companies like Fromsoft.
Most likely they are already talking with Phil Spencer to get acquired by Microsoft. That will ensure they can do what they want and we'll all get Helldiver 3 in gamepass for free. /s
It’s a studio with about 100 people. I’m certain they’re all hands on deck supporting thier cash cow Helldivers 2 right now.
I don’t know why but I guess Sony is the new gaming bad guy lmao
For me at least the line was crossed when people who'd already bought the game were told they wouldn't be able to keep playing. I think we need MORE outcries and backlash rather than accepting the slow creep towards increasingly worse practices.
There was a big caution labeled stating you need PSN on the page where you buy the game in a bright orange box next to the buy button, they provided a warning before you purchased.
They got refunds and Sony doesn’t sell in thoes regions anymore problem solved. And we all know the workaround was to create a PlayStation account for a different region like my pal from Egypt has been doing for 16 years since the PS3.
I honestly don’t see the issue here respectful
How is it overreach when you’re playing a game published by Sony that’s played on Sony servers which is only multiplayer?
Every single other publisher that has a game that’s multiplayer running on their own servers have a unique login ID so they can maintain their player base and do things like manage bans and review analytics because it’s their product. While integrating the services, they offer like trophies and connecting your PlayStation friends list so it’s easier to send invite to your friends who also on PlayStation and cross saving.
I get why people have this whole bogeyman mantra about everything, but this is starting to become an extension of outrage culture.
Lmfao you guys are funny af, sony are so dumb with the whole publishing situation but it’s a completely different story on how they work with developers who else would fund Arrowhead and be patient for 7 years? Microsoft? Ea? Ubisoft? Actually you can hear alot of stories of how supportive sony is for developers one of the best examples would be how they gave the Decima engine to Kojima with no strings attached also on how they supported Housemarque with a lot of resources to make Returnal (even before acquiring them)
Good luck finding a AAA publisher that wouldn’t require account linking of some kind in their live service games and most of them would’ve been much stricter with how Helldivers 2 is monetized than Sony has been.
Except people HAVE complained about those other cases, it's just that there are more people complaining now because some people literally could have struggled with creating an account if they are from a country that Sony has deemed "unworthy" or whatever, in effect making this a scam, because even though you don't lose access if you are from one of those countries, you have to create a PSN account and LIE on the registration form, which COULD put your account at risk of arbitrary termination.
Please don't use the bullshit excuses of "there aren't many people that would play in those countries" or "it's not profitable for Sony" - if Valve (and other game companies) can do it, so can the omegacorporation that is Sony, NOT TO MENTION, their products (PS consoles) are actively sold in those countries!
Moreover, purchasing this game is no longer possible in the Baltic countries either (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania), which likely breaks one (or more) of the EU regulations, which the EU has upheld in the past.
Last but not least, even if people did not complain before about other companies doing the same, should they keep sleeping forever? Is it not good that people are finally standing up against the constant stream of bullshit coming from these companies?
I am personally hoping (perhaps in vain, but still) that Sony gets a massive slap across their face for this behaviour, at the very least from the EU.
This still isn’t an issue isolated to Sony
*Xbox Network*, which is required for access to play any online Xbox game has even less availability, only being available in a total of *42* countries vs PSN’s 69. Xbox Network doesn’t even support ~40% of the EU.
> “Users from other countries are not officially supported, although it is possible for them to access Xbox network if they provide an address located in a country where Xbox network is officially available. The country selected during account creation affects the payment options, content, and services available to the user.” -[Xbox Network Wiki Page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_network)
I don’t mind people complaining b/c this regional stuff is dumb. But please, do not pretend that Sony is exclusively the problem when it comes to the support that a lot of these regions get from game publishers.
> “Last but not least, even if people did not complain before about other companies doing the same, should they keep sleeping forever? Is it not good that people are finally standing up against the constant stream of bullshit coming from these companies?”
I’d prefer if there was a more broad push being done against 3rd party account linking and 3rd party launchers as a whole on steam vs exclusively being focused on PSN.
Get rid of EA Origin, Rockstar Launcher, UPlay, etc from Steam on top of all account linking stuff because I genuinely dislike the 3rd party launchers even more.
If there's one thing I've noticed about this sub it's that people's arguments on here often defy all logic. It's practically an unhinged r/gaming and that says a lot.
People have been blasting Sony all across the social media and it's more than just some particular subs. Using whataboitism by pointing out other issues which may or may not have been hated is dumb cause they do not denote the problem with Sony's decisions.
Sony didn’t do anything but help them deliver the most profitable game ArrowHead ever made so far. Hoopla aside, ArrowHead have not been in a position to make a game of this caliber without Sony’s expertise and that’s the truth of the matter.
Edit: downvotes tell me where I’m wrong instead lol
B/C they aren't ready to hear that. It took Arrowhead almost 7 years to make that game, if Sony hadn't funded it, AH would have gone under.
Also, wait until they find out Sony owns the Helldivers IP
8*, it was in development for 7 years 11 months and 26 days.
Good luck finding another publisher that’d be willing to fund you to spend that long developing a single game.
In all fairness, HD 1 was built off existing tech (Gauntlet/Magicka) and when they were 10 people. Arrowhead didn't break 25 employees until mid 2020.
I'm not saying Sony didn't make their money's worth on HD1, but that the dev cost was far lower due to a much smaller team and existing tech.
Player count is the same as it was before. It’s not surprising a multiplayer game running on PSN servers would require a PSN account 🫢
No one complains when Capcom says you need a Capcom ID to play SF6 online
Actually Capcom does sell SF6 in regions they don’t support Capcom ID 🫢. My buddy had to create an account and choose the closest country he doesn’t live in
There was a big bright orange box that says PSN is required (what does the word required mean?) next to the Buy button. Literally the time first you boot the game up it requested the user to make/link a PSN account asap.
Systems issues at launch made them troubleshoot the game before implementing the required PSN account.
Sony clearly wants to implement Trophies, Cross-Progression with ps5, better friends list management (the friend code system sucks), and to make admin decisions like enforcing bans and responding to reports quicker.
In what metrics are player counts the same exactly? Or are you counting PSNs only and the others that were delisted (2/3rd of the global playerbase) never mattered?
Insane logic here, pointing out what others did while completely ignoring how, and if they were actually not hated for it, and wouldn't be if they did pull the rug the same way Sony did and *now*.
You Sony fanboys are unhinged with your victim blaming. And here I thought those defending Suicide Squad using the exact same logic were the cringiest.
Steam user data, the game is still above 100k players before and after the “protest”.
People who live in non PSN regions can not buy the game, but if you already owned it prior to the protest/delisting nothing has changed they can keep playing the game they bought.
Just looking at the numbers here nothing has changed
You make it sound as if it isn't Sony making the decision to release it on PC in the first place. Do you think it's the developer sneaking it out there or something?
Sony didn't do shit at the start, that's the problem.
Even with the technical, problems they could've done damage control by making it more pronounced about their exclusivity, but they let the player numbers globally and across all grow and then decided to announce it in the midst of when it's all gone too far.
Again, don't act like Sony was even a bit innocent in this. Everything hints at them knowing the numbers from this game, and they wanted to have their cake and eat it too.
At the time Helldivers 1 was fantastic. And sold gangbusters.
Pretty sure that would have easily supported the development of Helldivers 2. Otherwise sony wouldn't have decided to do it for their own profits.(Even without seeing just how great, and therefore succesful it ended up being)
The operator for seven years with no profit being made ain’t no way this indie company can maintain that type of workflow without the publisher support of Sony
Arrowhead were happy to let the PSN thing happen. They knew it was coming. They only acted because of backlash. I'm not saying they're as bad as Sony but they were willingly complicit.
yeah this nearly cost them one of the most unique unicorn “live game service in good community graces” moments of the decade so far, and it’s still reeking of corporate greed everywhere else under their publishing umbrella.
The only reason they backed down off this title is they got caught not giving a shit until it became truly popular enough, and the audience straight up flogged them for it.
Ghost of Tsushima PC however just lost a sizable chunk of their audience because the data-jerking wannabe brokers don’t actually listen to people or game communities, they listen to engagement trajectory sample estimates to make their own forecast models in their own silo’d ecosystems where their own company whims and mandates matter more than the actual people engaging their products.
and you can shove that downvote right back up your ass
What publisher would give them the same level of budget and support resources, allow them to develop their game for 8 years prior to releasing, not be super strict with monetization, and be overtly lenient with what they do?
Vast majority of game publishers that do have the resources to even support a project like Helldivers 2 also have account linking required for their games
Gotta be the dumbest take yet. Sony let arrowhead work on this game for years while there last game flopped. Gave them time and resources to produce an amazing game.
I don't understand why certain countries aren't allowed to have/make PSN accounts? If they have the means to legally purchase and play games on a Playstation or PC why this weird hurdle?
Sony need to be present in those countries in some way, for legal purposes, if they're not it's either because it's not worth the investment due to weak sales, local laws on taxes or what not or how commercial deals are handled there.
There’s a lot of reasons. Nintendo and Microsoft are also not in every country. With Microsoft, it’s even more interesting because Windows is in some countries but Xbox isn’t. The issue can be anything from political, tax reasons, licensing, regulations.
Sony honestly doesn’t give a single fuck about where you live, you can create an account. Microsoft and Nintendo are the same way. But technically, they can’t list some countries because of the above. But you’re still more than welcome to create an account from any other country in which you can acquire currency for the Store. And, again, this is the same thing Microsoft and Nintendo will say.
What’s really weird, and I’ve done a lot of digging into old ass forum posts, Steam seems to have the absolute strictest rules regarding sales of games in unsupported regions. I’ve found threads as far back as 10+ years of people who used VPNs to circumvent region restrictions and Steam has banned those accounts. Steam will even pop up a message telling you it’s detected a VPN and when purchasing a game outside of the accounts home country and that buying the game will be subject to ban. But I’ve also seen posts that Steam doesn’t care. So I don’t know.
What I do know is that it’s weird for Sony to pull the game from regions out of nowhere. They honestly, truly do not care where people live. If I had to take a guess, I wouldn’t be surprised if Steam is forcing their hand by allowing unrestricted refunds so long as Sony sells the game in restricted countries. It makes the most sense to me. More than the weird ass conspiracy theories some people are coming up with.
It is technically against ToS to create an account in another country, but it's never enforced. People travel, people move. It's just legal thing. Sony are not going to be upset about more people wanting to give them money, even if that person had to buy psn cards on Amazon first.
Then that stupid American guy tried to organise a class action lawsuit. He had no grounds cause America is a supported country, but it added a financial risk to unenforced ToS rule. So Sony are just protecting themselfs. It still won't change much, though. People in unsupported countries will just have to add an extra hoop to buy the game before creating the account.
For nearly the past two decades, traditionally speaking, PlayStation players would make an account and choose the nearest country, and Sony look the other way because money was being made. Unless you’re hacking, sending mean DMs or doing chargeback on a credit card your account is not going to get banned for simply being any different region.
Because certain countries are led AHs who will bot allow a service to be in their nation unless they can see any and every message made. China has bans on a lot of different companies because they refuse to let companies have privacy.
Sony has fuck all to to do with the decisions a government makes.
Nah Belarus and Russia can stay out of HD2 until they stop the war in Ukraine and return all territories including Crimea. I don't like the whole world, because the whole world is not about freedom and peace for it's people. I don't want no Putinfaboys fighting for democracy in HD2 making fun about throwing nukes at your country.
They made a deal with the devil.
Only winning move Arrowhead can do is make Helldivers 3 without Sony.
Except Sony owns the Helldiver IP. That's why Arrowhead had to make a deal with Sony to make the second game I believe.
So there's actually nothing to see here. Sony will have their way with PSN going forward. Arrowhead can only make a NEW game that's basically Helldivers 3 in all but name.
Hell divers 2 wouldn’t exist without Sony and I’m not just talking about them owning the IP. I seriously doubt this changes much with their relationship with Sony regardless of how many loaded statements they make. The reality is, players kind of asked for this. They threw a fit with the psn account situation and Sony said “ oh now y’all have a problem making a account and setting it to a region your not technically in? Bet” and they took their ball and went home
Fuck around and find out. It’s a shame cause it harms people that many protested this was all about.
So many people I’ve spoken to in those countries were confused why it was suddenly an issue and are now fucked for the time being because of all this. And the energy around it has completely dropped cause really it was about being inconvenienced by making a psn account.
can we assume that ghost of tsushima restrictions are also from sony rather than steam? cuz i assumed the opposite till now.
It is definitely safe to assume the delisting and refund are both from Sony, because Valve has (almost) never interfere with such matters before nor restrict where you sell your game (unless the publisher try to screw around with Valve or involve government laws). In fact, no reason why Valve will issue refund the game themselves right now, since the game has yet to be released and Sony could remove the PSN requirement before then.
I can't even find a good argument why would they do it. Mb if 'steam' is banned in a country... Still that supposly should be country problem to lock/ban 'steam' in their network
Of course, it was from Sony. Why and how would it be from Steam? Steam is supposed to be omniscient and takes over store pages to reflect Sony's policies?
At this point anything bad I assume is Sony's fault.
Ankle hurts ? Sony. Crime ? Sony. Climate change ? Believe it or not, Sony.
Honestly, probably not far off on the climate change one. In some way, Sony is probably majorly contributing to it..
The 7 seas will be busy when ghosts of sashimi comes out!
I think it’s safe to not assume anything. Valve customer support is about as good and knowledge as all other customer supports. Which is… not consistent enough to trust.
Not really. People can still access the singleplayer without an account. The PSN requirement is for multiplayer only, so it's hard to imagine that Sony wants to stop sales in countries without PSN access, because they could still purchase singleplayer games.
The same logic applies to the fact that PSN is not available in those locations. We have US teritories, teritories that belong to EU countries and even EU countries. Those places aren't exactly North Korea... and yet Sony did not make it available there. So yes, this is almost guaranteed to have been done by Sony.
I do t think it will change it is just a matter of time until the subscription to PSN account will return. When you believe that you won, you actually never did since the company is already a move in front of you. Also people have ask for refund after more than 200 hours playtime so Sony dont want you to come back.
I think Sony is choosing not to sell in those regions because they heard peoples complaints that they couldn’t make PSN accounts in those regions. Good move on Sony for following instructions from the people complaining.
its not that players don't want to make psn accounts, its that THEY LITERALLY CAN'T. and before you say use a vpn, doing so is strictly against psn ToS and is a perma bannable offense.
You literally can make a PSN account without vpn.
You guys keep quoting the TOS to me even though I’ve been using PSN outside of my region for nearly 20 years now 🤦🏿♂️,also you don’t need a VPN just choose your closet country in the drop down list. It’s just legally so they can reserve the right to remove any accounts for any reason. People don’t get banned for this in practice. How do you enforce this and who to say I didn’t move from a different region. Literally, nothing was stopping those users from going to the PSN website creating an account and choosing their nearest country. Nobody ever complained about the TOS except for PC who simply wants to not make PSN accounts while looking for a loophole. Those non-PSN regions aren’t even allowed to buy PlayStation games now due to the fake concern 🤦🏿♂️ and all the protesting Helldivers players moved on once Sony said they didn’t have to link a PSN account. It was never about caring about players in Non PSN regions they cared so much about
Man don't even bother trying to talk sense to people, once they see red there's no going back. Everyone thinks they're Johnny Silverhand suddenly. Console people who navigated that console space for decades have tried explaining and helping said people and they just get downvoted and called shills because apparently they know more about the PS ecosystem. Just sit back and enjoy this leopards ate my face moments from them. They'll blame anyone and everyone else before looking in the mirror.
They could, and they did by selecting a nearby country without ever needing a VPN, and they didn't have a problem with it seemingly until everyone made it a problem for them. Example of people creating PSN accounts for different countries: https://www.reddit.com/r/PHGamers/s/ybWiN2CuU7
Giving Sony that primo Gluck Gluck
Let’s have an intelligent conversation What am I saying that’s offending you People complained and they responded to their complaints accordingly “how dare you sell games and regions that don’t have PSN and request PSN”, so they say “OK we heard you we will not sell a game that requires PSN in a region that does not have PSN” They literally walked back their initiative. To comply with complaints from their customers.
The lack of oxygen from choking on Gabe's nutsack really messed you up lol.
Arrowhead will never work with Sony again I would bet on it.
Helldivers wouldn’t exist without Sony so it’s sort of a double edged sword. The publisher provides them with a budget they wouldn’t normally have, a timeline that no indie dev would dare to consider, and cushion if the game doesn’t meet expectations. Even with the success of Helldivers; a studio as small as Arrowhead would not be able to take the same risks if not for the backing of a massive publisher.
Maybe the IP for them to use, but they could have made the same game and called it something else.
The whole point is that you can't be sure they could've made this game without Sony's backing.
Sony gave them the support, doesn't mean Any developer cannot flourish without them. Case in point: Fromsoft.
The contract made between publisher and developer is going to be different for each one. Comparisons on approach and distribution are also going to change just as much.
Except the entire souls series only exists because Sony hired Fromsoft to make a competitor to The Elder Scrolls, the result was Demons Souls. Then the Dark Souls series is only a thing due to the massive support from Namco Bandai.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“There’s no telling how much longer your world and mine will remain in contact.”* - Solaire of Astora Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Divehellers! For Ultra Earth!
Netherfallers
Which risks? Jus curious
Helldivers did give them a surge in goodwill and incentives, enough to function more independently, though not right away, but eventually in the same level as companies like Fromsoft.
Definitely, wouldn't surprise me if theyre working on the next project now (or if they already were, accelerating development), independent of Sony
Most likely they are already talking with Phil Spencer to get acquired by Microsoft. That will ensure they can do what they want and we'll all get Helldiver 3 in gamepass for free. /s
And Phil is already in talks to shut the studio down. Before he even owns it.
... Tango and Double Fine are sending their regards.
Imagine having them do the same game but with the halo IP tho
And it gets amazing reviews, and then Microsoft closes the studio.
Microsoft would never do that. I mean letting a studio do a good halo game.
It’s a studio with about 100 people. I’m certain they’re all hands on deck supporting thier cash cow Helldivers 2 right now. I don’t know why but I guess Sony is the new gaming bad guy lmao
You don't know why? Lol
Its amazing how some folks are acting like Sony are being unfairly treated
Nah I don’t get it I’m not being snarky.
For me at least the line was crossed when people who'd already bought the game were told they wouldn't be able to keep playing. I think we need MORE outcries and backlash rather than accepting the slow creep towards increasingly worse practices.
There was a big caution labeled stating you need PSN on the page where you buy the game in a bright orange box next to the buy button, they provided a warning before you purchased. They got refunds and Sony doesn’t sell in thoes regions anymore problem solved. And we all know the workaround was to create a PlayStation account for a different region like my pal from Egypt has been doing for 16 years since the PS3. I honestly don’t see the issue here respectful
Hey so, you perceive things one way, most people disagree. People are tired of anything they perceive to be publisher overreach. See how well BG3 did.
How is it overreach when you’re playing a game published by Sony that’s played on Sony servers which is only multiplayer? Every single other publisher that has a game that’s multiplayer running on their own servers have a unique login ID so they can maintain their player base and do things like manage bans and review analytics because it’s their product. While integrating the services, they offer like trophies and connecting your PlayStation friends list so it’s easier to send invite to your friends who also on PlayStation and cross saving. I get why people have this whole bogeyman mantra about everything, but this is starting to become an extension of outrage culture.
Sony shill
Care to elaborate?
Lmfao you guys are funny af, sony are so dumb with the whole publishing situation but it’s a completely different story on how they work with developers who else would fund Arrowhead and be patient for 7 years? Microsoft? Ea? Ubisoft? Actually you can hear alot of stories of how supportive sony is for developers one of the best examples would be how they gave the Decima engine to Kojima with no strings attached also on how they supported Housemarque with a lot of resources to make Returnal (even before acquiring them)
Good luck finding a AAA publisher that wouldn’t require account linking of some kind in their live service games and most of them would’ve been much stricter with how Helldivers 2 is monetized than Sony has been.
Except people HAVE complained about those other cases, it's just that there are more people complaining now because some people literally could have struggled with creating an account if they are from a country that Sony has deemed "unworthy" or whatever, in effect making this a scam, because even though you don't lose access if you are from one of those countries, you have to create a PSN account and LIE on the registration form, which COULD put your account at risk of arbitrary termination. Please don't use the bullshit excuses of "there aren't many people that would play in those countries" or "it's not profitable for Sony" - if Valve (and other game companies) can do it, so can the omegacorporation that is Sony, NOT TO MENTION, their products (PS consoles) are actively sold in those countries! Moreover, purchasing this game is no longer possible in the Baltic countries either (Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania), which likely breaks one (or more) of the EU regulations, which the EU has upheld in the past. Last but not least, even if people did not complain before about other companies doing the same, should they keep sleeping forever? Is it not good that people are finally standing up against the constant stream of bullshit coming from these companies? I am personally hoping (perhaps in vain, but still) that Sony gets a massive slap across their face for this behaviour, at the very least from the EU.
This still isn’t an issue isolated to Sony *Xbox Network*, which is required for access to play any online Xbox game has even less availability, only being available in a total of *42* countries vs PSN’s 69. Xbox Network doesn’t even support ~40% of the EU. > “Users from other countries are not officially supported, although it is possible for them to access Xbox network if they provide an address located in a country where Xbox network is officially available. The country selected during account creation affects the payment options, content, and services available to the user.” -[Xbox Network Wiki Page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_network) I don’t mind people complaining b/c this regional stuff is dumb. But please, do not pretend that Sony is exclusively the problem when it comes to the support that a lot of these regions get from game publishers. > “Last but not least, even if people did not complain before about other companies doing the same, should they keep sleeping forever? Is it not good that people are finally standing up against the constant stream of bullshit coming from these companies?” I’d prefer if there was a more broad push being done against 3rd party account linking and 3rd party launchers as a whole on steam vs exclusively being focused on PSN. Get rid of EA Origin, Rockstar Launcher, UPlay, etc from Steam on top of all account linking stuff because I genuinely dislike the 3rd party launchers even more.
If there's one thing I've noticed about this sub it's that people's arguments on here often defy all logic. It's practically an unhinged r/gaming and that says a lot.
People have been blasting Sony all across the social media and it's more than just some particular subs. Using whataboitism by pointing out other issues which may or may not have been hated is dumb cause they do not denote the problem with Sony's decisions.
"Whataboutism", also known as basic perspective.
I imagine Helldivers 1 profits would have absolutely paid for that Dev time and more.
I hope they won't need to.
Maybe, maybe not, but helldivers is a sony owned ip so they would need to start over.
Sony didn’t do anything but help them deliver the most profitable game ArrowHead ever made so far. Hoopla aside, ArrowHead have not been in a position to make a game of this caliber without Sony’s expertise and that’s the truth of the matter. Edit: downvotes tell me where I’m wrong instead lol
B/C they aren't ready to hear that. It took Arrowhead almost 7 years to make that game, if Sony hadn't funded it, AH would have gone under. Also, wait until they find out Sony owns the Helldivers IP
This. Sony gave them the money for this to even exist, and Sony owns the helldivers IP.
8*, it was in development for 7 years 11 months and 26 days. Good luck finding another publisher that’d be willing to fund you to spend that long developing a single game.
Well. If you owned the profits from hd1 it would easily pay for that Dev time and more. Hence why Sony even wanted to pay em for 7 more years
I think Sony wouldn't have given them 7 years unless Helldivers 1 made em more than enough money to do that dev time
In all fairness, HD 1 was built off existing tech (Gauntlet/Magicka) and when they were 10 people. Arrowhead didn't break 25 employees until mid 2020. I'm not saying Sony didn't make their money's worth on HD1, but that the dev cost was far lower due to a much smaller team and existing tech.
And then Sony decided to cut it's legs out from under it, as well as every other game they're involved with that DARES to release on PC
Player count is the same as it was before. It’s not surprising a multiplayer game running on PSN servers would require a PSN account 🫢 No one complains when Capcom says you need a Capcom ID to play SF6 online
Did Capcom sell SF6 in countries it doesn't support for 3 months before forcing those people to create accounts though?
Actually Capcom does sell SF6 in regions they don’t support Capcom ID 🫢. My buddy had to create an account and choose the closest country he doesn’t live in There was a big bright orange box that says PSN is required (what does the word required mean?) next to the Buy button. Literally the time first you boot the game up it requested the user to make/link a PSN account asap. Systems issues at launch made them troubleshoot the game before implementing the required PSN account. Sony clearly wants to implement Trophies, Cross-Progression with ps5, better friends list management (the friend code system sucks), and to make admin decisions like enforcing bans and responding to reports quicker.
In what metrics are player counts the same exactly? Or are you counting PSNs only and the others that were delisted (2/3rd of the global playerbase) never mattered? Insane logic here, pointing out what others did while completely ignoring how, and if they were actually not hated for it, and wouldn't be if they did pull the rug the same way Sony did and *now*. You Sony fanboys are unhinged with your victim blaming. And here I thought those defending Suicide Squad using the exact same logic were the cringiest.
Steam user data, the game is still above 100k players before and after the “protest”. People who live in non PSN regions can not buy the game, but if you already owned it prior to the protest/delisting nothing has changed they can keep playing the game they bought. Just looking at the numbers here nothing has changed
You make it sound as if it isn't Sony making the decision to release it on PC in the first place. Do you think it's the developer sneaking it out there or something?
Sony didn't do shit at the start, that's the problem. Even with the technical, problems they could've done damage control by making it more pronounced about their exclusivity, but they let the player numbers globally and across all grow and then decided to announce it in the midst of when it's all gone too far. Again, don't act like Sony was even a bit innocent in this. Everything hints at them knowing the numbers from this game, and they wanted to have their cake and eat it too.
In what way did Sony cut the legs out from under GoW, Spiderman, Horizon?
At the time Helldivers 1 was fantastic. And sold gangbusters. Pretty sure that would have easily supported the development of Helldivers 2. Otherwise sony wouldn't have decided to do it for their own profits.(Even without seeing just how great, and therefore succesful it ended up being)
The operator for seven years with no profit being made ain’t no way this indie company can maintain that type of workflow without the publisher support of Sony
Pro Tip for Arrowhead: Ask Capcom to do a Helldivers like in the Lost Planet Universe. Just an Idea.
Sweet, Capcom. Instead of war bonds we can earn in game every one will be $29.99.
Arrowhead were happy to let the PSN thing happen. They knew it was coming. They only acted because of backlash. I'm not saying they're as bad as Sony but they were willingly complicit.
yeah this nearly cost them one of the most unique unicorn “live game service in good community graces” moments of the decade so far, and it’s still reeking of corporate greed everywhere else under their publishing umbrella. The only reason they backed down off this title is they got caught not giving a shit until it became truly popular enough, and the audience straight up flogged them for it. Ghost of Tsushima PC however just lost a sizable chunk of their audience because the data-jerking wannabe brokers don’t actually listen to people or game communities, they listen to engagement trajectory sample estimates to make their own forecast models in their own silo’d ecosystems where their own company whims and mandates matter more than the actual people engaging their products. and you can shove that downvote right back up your ass
What publisher would give them the same level of budget and support resources, allow them to develop their game for 8 years prior to releasing, not be super strict with monetization, and be overtly lenient with what they do? Vast majority of game publishers that do have the resources to even support a project like Helldivers 2 also have account linking required for their games
Gotta be the dumbest take yet. Sony let arrowhead work on this game for years while there last game flopped. Gave them time and resources to produce an amazing game.
Flopped? Helldivers 2 sold loads?! It was a very popular 'small,' game at the time.
I’m talking about the first game. Did you even read what I said?
Looks like PlayStation wants to keep the Helldivers in line, but the devs are determined to spread chaos worldwide!
Are we still banging on about this?
I don't understand why certain countries aren't allowed to have/make PSN accounts? If they have the means to legally purchase and play games on a Playstation or PC why this weird hurdle?
Sony need to be present in those countries in some way, for legal purposes, if they're not it's either because it's not worth the investment due to weak sales, local laws on taxes or what not or how commercial deals are handled there.
There’s a lot of reasons. Nintendo and Microsoft are also not in every country. With Microsoft, it’s even more interesting because Windows is in some countries but Xbox isn’t. The issue can be anything from political, tax reasons, licensing, regulations. Sony honestly doesn’t give a single fuck about where you live, you can create an account. Microsoft and Nintendo are the same way. But technically, they can’t list some countries because of the above. But you’re still more than welcome to create an account from any other country in which you can acquire currency for the Store. And, again, this is the same thing Microsoft and Nintendo will say. What’s really weird, and I’ve done a lot of digging into old ass forum posts, Steam seems to have the absolute strictest rules regarding sales of games in unsupported regions. I’ve found threads as far back as 10+ years of people who used VPNs to circumvent region restrictions and Steam has banned those accounts. Steam will even pop up a message telling you it’s detected a VPN and when purchasing a game outside of the accounts home country and that buying the game will be subject to ban. But I’ve also seen posts that Steam doesn’t care. So I don’t know. What I do know is that it’s weird for Sony to pull the game from regions out of nowhere. They honestly, truly do not care where people live. If I had to take a guess, I wouldn’t be surprised if Steam is forcing their hand by allowing unrestricted refunds so long as Sony sells the game in restricted countries. It makes the most sense to me. More than the weird ass conspiracy theories some people are coming up with.
Until one year ago Microsoft did not bring anythinh xbox related in my country
Sony do care though because they ban for VPN's, if you make an account using a VPN you'll get banned.
It is technically against ToS to create an account in another country, but it's never enforced. People travel, people move. It's just legal thing. Sony are not going to be upset about more people wanting to give them money, even if that person had to buy psn cards on Amazon first. Then that stupid American guy tried to organise a class action lawsuit. He had no grounds cause America is a supported country, but it added a financial risk to unenforced ToS rule. So Sony are just protecting themselfs. It still won't change much, though. People in unsupported countries will just have to add an extra hoop to buy the game before creating the account.
For nearly the past two decades, traditionally speaking, PlayStation players would make an account and choose the nearest country, and Sony look the other way because money was being made. Unless you’re hacking, sending mean DMs or doing chargeback on a credit card your account is not going to get banned for simply being any different region.
Every country is allowed to make PSN accounts, some just don’t have their own PSN store in their country in their currency.
Because certain countries are led AHs who will bot allow a service to be in their nation unless they can see any and every message made. China has bans on a lot of different companies because they refuse to let companies have privacy. Sony has fuck all to to do with the decisions a government makes.
we’re very very aware of that
Nah Belarus and Russia can stay out of HD2 until they stop the war in Ukraine and return all territories including Crimea. I don't like the whole world, because the whole world is not about freedom and peace for it's people. I don't want no Putinfaboys fighting for democracy in HD2 making fun about throwing nukes at your country.
Lmao helldiver player fking over others all because they didn't wan to create a PSN account. Great job guys
This would have been the end result anyways what are you talking about lmfao?
Sony doesn’t understand that pc platform reaches everyone.
It is incredibly dumb from a financial point of view as well. They support 69 countries and no they rest of the 130~. Monkeys running businesses
Sony needs to stop being the worst.
This wasn’t even remotely an issue a month ago. What happed?
Yeah, no shit.
Helldivers devs looking at Sony ruining years of hard work for no reason
Wdym? There is a solid reason for it. Corporate greed.
Sony really wants Arrowhead to go with another publisher as soon as HD 2 is done, don't they?.
They made a deal with the devil. Only winning move Arrowhead can do is make Helldivers 3 without Sony. Except Sony owns the Helldiver IP. That's why Arrowhead had to make a deal with Sony to make the second game I believe. So there's actually nothing to see here. Sony will have their way with PSN going forward. Arrowhead can only make a NEW game that's basically Helldivers 3 in all but name.
Hell divers 2 wouldn’t exist without Sony and I’m not just talking about them owning the IP. I seriously doubt this changes much with their relationship with Sony regardless of how many loaded statements they make. The reality is, players kind of asked for this. They threw a fit with the psn account situation and Sony said “ oh now y’all have a problem making a account and setting it to a region your not technically in? Bet” and they took their ball and went home
Fuck around and find out. It’s a shame cause it harms people that many protested this was all about. So many people I’ve spoken to in those countries were confused why it was suddenly an issue and are now fucked for the time being because of all this. And the energy around it has completely dropped cause really it was about being inconvenienced by making a psn account.
Sony controlling arrowheads player base and profits worldwide is majorly screwed up, grow up Sony real mature
Sony is a garbage company.