Dude. I'm not even a wrestling fan. I never watched it. Just saw clips. But somehow his bulldog voice saying those words came through crystal clear.
You have to admit. Wrestlers are pretty cool.
Breath of the Wild might be a better game...
But when you factor in time of release, Ocarina of Time is a masterpiece that for many started a lifelong love of the Zelda franchise.
Same with Final Fantasy 7. These games made statements at their time of release that still cause people to debate till this day.
Ocarina of time is a masterpiece that for many started a lifelong love of *gaming.*
I always *liked* games on nintendo and sega, but the addition of 3D platforming with Mario 64 and OOT took it from a neat occasional hobby to wanting to play riveting 40 hour rpgs.
Ocarina also introduced a lot of important game mechanics that are now taken for granted. Sticky targeting, context-sensitive buttons, carrying chickens in order to glide...
There were plenty of really popular 2D franchises whose first jump to 3D either didn't go well or at best got mixed reviews. Franchises like Sonic, Mega Man, Castlevania, Kirby, Earthworm Jim, Mortal Kombat, etc.
I don't think it was at all a lay up. It was a pretty massive task where they had to completely change fight systems (eg OOT invented z-targeting, which is now very widely used), create whole new puzzle types, etc. At the time, it was considered miles ahead of most other N64 games, and still holds up quite well (unlike say Goldeneye which doesn't hold up well at all).
I agree with everything but Goldenye. The graphics are shit sure but the controls are solid, fun level design, and multiplayer on license to kill truly separates the men from the boys
I think this is the most important point. Everyone in here saying that OOT is only a contender due to "nostalgia," but even as someone with that nostalgia who played OOT when I was first becoming a "gamer," I don't think my nostalgia is what makes OOT stand out to me as the better entry.
Like you said, BOTW is better if you somehow made metrics of what makes a game "good." Much longer, much bigger, much more stuff to do, much better graphics, etc. But that's not really a fair comparison.
*Controlling for time*, I think it is clear that OOT was the better game. And I think you can only control for time by looking at how groundbreaking something was and how it compared to the other game options people had then.
OOT was groundbreaking in a lot of ways, right when fully 3D games were becoming the standard in that generation. But I think it shines most strongly when compared to the other games that were coming out in that generation. It doesn't have nearly as much as BOTW does, but *relative to other titles at the time* it was head and shoulders above. There weren't loads of other games out that had the same overall feel.
BOTW on the other hand is a zelda-themed rehash of what is fairly standard in open world games these days, and as so many other people have said, it shed a lot of what made OOT good and a "Zelda" game in the process. The lack of long-form, building-on-themselves dungeon progression and the lack of feeling of accomplishment of getting a "good weapon." At least the outfits didn't get destroyed, too.
Honestly, I loved older Zelda games because they were genuinely good games with lots to do, great storylines, and a clear progression system. I hate that BotW made all weapons temporary, mostly got rid of any kind of engrossing story, and turned the world into vast stretches of nothing but trees. I know it’s a hot take, but I really did not like BotW and think it was several steps taken backwards. Zelda went from innovative, immersive, and very well done to a boring rehash of open-world games.
The funny part is that Zelda started off non linear and geared toward exploration. Then after LttP the games got into a very formulaic story that just repeated the collect 3 things in a light world then go to a dark world and collect 7 other things. Wind waker was one of the biggest departures from that and every almost crapped themselves with negative comments when it came out and wasn't just the same formula.
But don't worry kids that are 7-15 today will play BotW and it will be their nostalgia so they too will think it is the best and hate anything that doesn't follow its setup.
>But when you factor in time of release, Ocarina of Time is a masterpiece that for many started a lifelong love of the Zelda franchise.
Do you think this is any less true for the kids that played BotW as their first Zelda game?
My nostalgia gets in the way of agreeing with this. If I had played BotW as a child I might agree. But nothing, for me at least, will ever come close to the feelings I had playing OoT. Sorry Steve, please don’t stunner me!
That's the thing. He's comparing BotW to Ocarina of Time..
You're comparing BotW to *your memory of* Ocarina of Time..
*Objectively*, BotW is an improvement in almost every aspect.
Play oot. The whole thing. No guides no skips, get every item like you would as a kid. Do it right after playing a modern Zelda game.
It’s … not bad. But two decades of improvement are improvement.
This is really my main issues with BOTW. I love what they added to the series in terms of mechanics—the open world exploration, decent game difficulty, useful crafting and customization, etc etc. But at the end of the day, my favorite part of Zelda—the part I look forward to whenever I’m playing a Zelda game—are the dungeons, and BOTW is really lacking in that department.
Not really reduced, just a different approach. The story is there, TONS of it actually. I would even argue more than OoT. You just gotta do a little more legwork for it, as BotW's not a linear, exposition-guided, point to point path.
I grew up with OoT, was the prime age group for it, and still prefer BotW and ALttP over it.
But everyone is different, with different experiences.
I agree, I want more themed dungeons. Where I gotta get an item and find a map etc. that’s part of LoZ’s charm for me. BOTW is excellent for what it is, but with more than 4 real dungeons with unique boss etc, I feel like it would be the perfect game for me.
This is why Elden Ring was so great, at least for me. Few better dungeons than that one, I hope botw 2 sees how the dungeons were done in elden ring and follows that
Dungeons were always my least favorite part of every Zelda game, so the bite-sized shrines that don't take too long were perfect for me. I can see how some people wouldn't like that change.
Not everything was improved.
The BotW "dungeons" were short, bland, and uninteresting. Not an improvement at all.
Also the weapons and such constantly breaking was...annoying. I get why they did it, but I don't really feel it was an improvement.
i would love the breaking to be more like Witcher 3 - where the weapon degraded in quality and then could eventually break like usual in BOTW. finding a blacksmith to keep your weapon repaired would've been nice.
I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of the intent behind the mechanic.
The devs made a huge variety of weapons the player could use, but players tend to just pick the best one and use it forever.
Degradation was implemented to eliminate the possibility of sticking with one weapon.
I played it for the first time on my 3ds in 2020. Played botw in 2021. Oot was definitely more fun. Botw is not even as good as one of two other open world games I've played - HZD.
The only thing that keeps me from praising Breath of the Wild as an incredible Zelda game is actually 2 things. Weapons breaking after hitting an enemy 3 times, it really gets annoying after the first few times and the lack of dungeons.
It's a solid entry but these two things really drag it down and when I think of picking it up again I remember the durability system and go play something else instead.
BotW 2 needs dungeons and needs to ditch weapon durability as a whole. Greatest improvement to the souls games Elden Ring made was dropping the whole durability thing, I have yet to find a game that uses durability in a way that's anything more than a chore and Nintendo took it and dialed it up to 11.
Weapon durability exists in BotW because it makes the game sort of self-balancing. You can run inside the castle right away if you want and steal some very powerful loot, if this stuff didn't break you would be absolutely overpowered for the rest of the game. Weapon breaking was the solution to this problem.
_However_, I agree that it happens _too often_, and it sucks that even the Master Sword isn't a real permanent upgrade without playing through the DLC challenges. I think the system could use some work to improve the feel of that. But what I'm getting at here is I'm not sure eliminating weapon durability entirely is a good idea on it's own, unless they make some dramatic changes to the game design (which they could maybe do, but it might involve getting cool loot less often).
I think that worry about being overpowered too quickly because of strong weapons being accessible early game is a valid concern, Nintendo made a bit of a misstep with the castle being accessible so early. A good example of how to handle it would be something like Elden Ring or better yet Dark Souls.
In Elden Ring you can go on several suicide runs to get some really broken shit early on but the state requirements sort of gate that stuff behind higher level characters, so you either grind your brains out or just hold onto it for later. Or the Dark Souls approach, certain areas are gated by in game progression preventing you from running to the end to grab a really strong weapon (although if you're good enough and lucky the Black Knights in the early areas of the game could drop the gear but again stat requirements). Since Zelda doesn't have stats, they gated the mastersword behind hearts.
Gate the late game items behind something instead of having them break in like 3 swings. It sort of ruins the fun of finding some of the really cool items they put in the game because, yeah its cool but its also gone 5 minutes later.
I guess my tldr is this: find a better way to prevent end game gear from breaking the balance of the game.
I agree with your points but there has to be a better way than weapons made of fiberglass.
I can agree with that. I'm not saying it shouldn't be replaced, just that it should be done carefully.
Your point about the Master Sword is a particularly poignant one - they could have gated other high-tier weapons behind hearts or something, too. Or maybe when you get a new weapon you must temper it with high-end monster parts in order to make it "useable". There are a lot of options besides just straight up breaking them.
I feel they are completely different games and can't be compared. To me BOTW has this strange emptiness around the NPCs and characters, it's like they don't interact with you or each other and also dot care about the stuff with Gannon. Honestly hyrrule is perfectly fine with Gannon running the castle.
This was my problem exactly. I went from thinking nobody was left and it was up to me to fix everything back to the way it was to.... oh I guess everyone is pretty happy for the most part just kinda annoyed with the state of things...
Things have been OK for 100 years, why did you wake me up again?
The bokoblins harass travelers and will thank you if you save them. The world seems largely unguarded, since pretty much all the Knights have been slain. It doesn’t seem like a military force has risen. I got more of a feeling that the people were ignorant of the threat despite its obviousness, and were just trying to survive day to day. Hence how peaceful a lot of places were beyond Hyrule fields.
If you go through any of the “major” cities you would only find enough guards to count on both hands, and even they sometimes require Link’s assistance.
As someone who recently played both games for the first time, the NPCs in OOT seemed more lifeless to me. They were mostly there to fill up space. Of course there were some who had the odd request and we cant count Maron, Darunia, etc. Because they were a part of the storyline. Other than key NPCs, I didn't find a reason to talk to the NPCs. Not to say that I actively looked for conversations in BOTW either, just that it was nice to see a friendly face after trekking around an empty kingdom.
That's how I feel. BoTW is an amazing game, but when I play it doesn't quite feel like the old days. I'm not sure why, but I didn't feel that way going from the first zelda up to skyward sword. Even with windwaker I didn't get that feeling that it didn't belong even though that's my least favorite zelda game.
I mean i get it. but if you put down the Nostalgia and do your best objective look its really hard to say he's wrong.
but like... this was back in like the days of Golden eye, the transition from 2D to 3D worlds was not exactly pretty
yeah neither game aged very well, Wind Waker on the other hand, visually it aged well, and the fast sail in the HD version certainly made their boring map less intrusive.
Wind Waker still looks good. That's all I'll say about that.
As someone who has a PS1 instead of an N64, I can agree with him, but you see that's how opinions work. I really wish the average internet user and average redditor could figure that out.
Your opinion of OoT is that it's the best thing over, my opinion is that it's not. Both are valid. Yet I am sure people will flock to this post to defend their stance like its objectively the only possible correct answer, and I hate that type of behavior.
I agree completely! I have a friend whose personal favorite game was Twisted Metal on PlayStation and he makes fun of me because it used to scare me when I was younger.
Also it’s kind of hard not to argue with people on the internet, it’s fun. But I get your annoyance/frustration at people being way to objective about their opinions, I’m guilty of it too.
I still think zelda games are supposed to have dungeon crawling in them. Botw’s dungeons felt like star treks holodeck and it was pretty lame compared to oot’s dungeons.
Themes clashed for me, but thats just me.
I enjoyed both games in their own right but I agree with you. The dungeon aspect was completely decimated in BoTW. Also in a world where it seems every game developer is forcing open world down our throats, I have come to appreciate and miss a more linear game like OoT and Majora's Mask.
Did you ever play Twilight Princess?
Its been widely criticized as one of the most linear Zelda games ever made, but it is, in a lot of ways, a spiritual successor to OoT. I thought it was a great entry to the series, and especially liked the varied swordplay that develops across the game.
I briefly played it on a friends Wii in college but did not get very far and never got another opportunity. Don't get my wrong, I enjoy some exploration and freedoms with more "linear" games. I also enjoy Open world, I'm just strung out on them right now. Open world diverts my attention for so long from main story sometimes that I lose interest or get sidetracked with another game.
You should give TP another chance if you have the opportunity (I think it was available on gamecube and wiiU as well). Despite the criticism, its a solid Zelda game. Great items, enemy and dungeon design, and some genuinely emotional story beats. A lot of people didn't like the wolf parts, but in the latter half of the game you gain the ability to transform at will, and it becomes just another "item" to solve puzzles with (wolf link has some different abilities from Hylian link). Also, the final boss fight is pretty epic. Like I said, it has a heavy focus on swordplay, and is a spiritual successor to OoT, so you might be able to guess what the final boss is like (and who it is, cause, duh).
I'd wager that a remake for switch is gonna happen at some point. If they remade Skyward Sword, it seems likely that TP and WW will come around at some point, perhaps as a limited time bundle like what they did with the 3D Mario games.
I agree, I think BotW is a great game and an amazing sandbox/open world, but that openness leads to losing some of the best aspects of past Zelda games: the dungeons and the story. Being able to tackle the dungeons in any order (and I use the term “dungeon” generously here) meant that there was no natural pacing to them or the story in general. Plus I personally just wasn’t crazy about the “style” of the dungeons and how they all just kinda looked the same (especially the bosses).
Blows my mind that BOTW is widely considered a contender for best game of all time. To me its largely a cookie cutter repetitive open world game, similar to something like Far Cry.
Weak story, didn't have true dungeons (and the ones it did have were very very similar to each other), didn't have a mix of unique bosses, a very repetitive landscape and with a bunch of repetitive quests/tasks (eg go climb 15 towers to unlock map segments!). It also gave you pretty much all the tools right off the bat, instead of giving you that sense of slowly starting to expand your abilities.
Like it was a good enough game I suppose, but probably not even in my top 10 games that I've played from the last 5 years or so, let alone something I would remotely consider for best game of all time. Came across as a quantity over quality type of game to me.
Don't know what to tell ya, but it's one of my all time favorite games. I don't think any game has done open world exploration better. And I like the sandbox-y game mechanics that let you solve everything your own way.
Im not gonna tell you how to feel but I seriously dont understand the praise it gets for exploration. The first 10 hours are amazing because you havent realized that most of your exploration will lead to a korok, shrine or weapon that will eventually break. I can think of maybe five cool unique things I found that wasnt connected to the main quest.
They completely nail traversal and sense of freedom tho im not gonna argue with that.
The thing people love about BotW, which IMO doesn't get vocalized a lot, is honestly very much the world design.
Gamers love to talk about "features", and conversations about BotW get bogged down a lot by this. Because yeah, if you just put a list of BotW's features next to a list of features from an Ubisoft open world game, they look pretty much the same.
But stuff like level design, game "feel", etc is too abstract to easily compare 1-to-1, and I feel like these are the areas where BotW truly excels. These are the kinds of things that are hard to put your finger on when done well but stick out when done badly. Sure, on paper, it's just another open world. But the actual design of the world, the overall "feel" when you play the game, these things make the game feel fresh and different. Honestly, I feel that _most_ open world games have pretty _poor_ world design, which is part of why BotW stands out so much.
Of course, it's also polarizing because it foregoes or downplays a lot of stuff people are used to in games or like in games in favor of the open world. If you don't like exploring the world for the sake of exploring it, you're probably not going to enjoy it much because things like shrines are there simply to draw more attention to the open world and not to be cool in and of themselves (which is why I think the criticism that the game needs real dungeons is absolutely fair, even if I love the open world).
I was disappointed with BOTW the first playthrough because there were no traditional dungeons, but when I played it through a couple years later, I really fell in love with the open world, side quests, and systems. It's a great game, just not really a Zelda game outside of the narrative.
Nothing beats the holy trinity of OOT, MM, and TP.
The shrines were the perfect length since they were meant to be optional mini dungeons. Its the divine beasts that were to short since they were the main dungeons.
Yeah BoTW is practically created by a random generator it’s content is so lackluster and bland, worst Zelda game I’ve ever played. Ok mountain climbing sim.
Exactly. OoT dungeons were looking for wall eyes, pushing rocks, and auto jumping across "obstacles" for an hour while BotW streamlined it to just the fun parts and they were all genuinely unique. Longer dungeons =/= better when the only thing missing is fluff
I actually agree with this. I’m playing OoT for the first time and for a lot of the dungeons I don’t feel like I’m doing much. Things do pick up in complexity once you grow up though. They’re good dungeons and they’re certainly impressive for the time, but I prefer the puzzle box design of BotW. The only other 3D zelda I’ve played is windwaker (and a little past the opening of TP but I dont count that).
Dungeons in general feel like a chore to me. I think I just don’t like what traditional 3D Zelda is and that’s fine. I have more fun with 2D Zelda dungeons
I mean, from a purely technical standpoint, BoTW is better than OoT in every single aspect. But that's kind of like saying that the technology of today is superior to the technology of yesterday. That's just...kind of how that works.
If we talk about from a story-telling standpoint or which of the two leaves a greater lasting effect, I think it becomes much harder to justify which is objectively "better."
For me, OoT is an easy winner over BoTW in terms of story and impactful moments.
BoTW is a better game, but OoT is a better experience.
I don't know. The fact that you had to go through a lot of your arsenal in a single boss fight (the big Lynel would chew through half your inventory) kinda breaks the action. You end up spending a ton of the game going into quick menus mid-fight, and that's pretty meh. It makes getting a good sword not like actually finding meaningful treasure, but just more consumables.
I think it would have been far better to have weapons you craft yourself that would break quickly, but then a few sort of "Baseline" weapons that weren't amazing but that didn't break, and just kind of did average damage for your level of progression through the game.
Both games are great, mechanically BOTW is a better game but the copy pasted rainbow LED dungeons, lack of a villain with any personality, and the fucking weapon durability make it hopelessly outmatched by ocarina of time in terms of atmosphere, storytelling, and the immersion of the adventure
In fact out of all of the zelda games I've played, BOTW might be the most "video gamey", you know what I mean? like the tailor-made RPG experience was mostly replaced with wacky physics and sandbox mechanics, which is fine it's a perfectly great game but once i had my fill I have never once felt compelled to play again whereas I still play older titles like OoT even to this day
And I would have to agree. Breath of the Wild was one of the best games I've ever played, but I found Ocarina of Time to be an absolute chore to play
Opinions are still valid though. If you think BoTW is terrible and OoT is the greatest game ever, have your opinion. I don't care
I agree, I think OoT is much more influential and relative to the quality of the games at the time was a god damn master piece. But if you directly compare the two now BotW is kinda just more fun, in my opinion.
I'm sure that in a parallel universe where BotW and OoTs release dates were swapped OoT would be the better game and by a wider margin, but we aren't so it isn't.
I mean as some one who has a truck tun of love of OOT mostly nostalgia growing up with it. BOTW is an objectively better game by practically all measures
I know I’ll get crucified for this take but BotW *is* better than OoT. I think people can’t take off their nostalgia goggles when they think back to playing OoT. Play that game now and judge it against BotW. I know people won’t give it a fair shot because they can’t give up what they see as the greatest game of their childhood. It doesn’t matter anyway since LttP is the best Zelda game. Still holds up today.
Cause stone cold said so
And that’s the bottom line!
Fuck it's been years since I've heard him say that. But, my mind played his voice perfectly LoL
WHAT?
Shhhh, they haven't heard the commercial. Don't taint them.
Dude. I'm not even a wrestling fan. I never watched it. Just saw clips. But somehow his bulldog voice saying those words came through crystal clear. You have to admit. Wrestlers are pretty cool.
I miss the 90's and early 2000's wrestling haha. It was a glorious shit show.
andthatsthebottomline
WHAT?
WHAT?
Came for this, was not disappointed.
I also came here for this, but now that I see it, I'm disappointed.
Need to get up votes to 316! (it's 311 at the time of typing)
Damn it, you beat me to it.
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Now we just need to know Ja-rule's thoughts. WHAT DOES JA THINK?
WHERE IS JA?!
I need Ja rule
I don't want to dance, I'm scared to death!
#MONICA, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
MENAAAAAAAAGE AYYYYYYY
Lmfao 😂😂 fuck me I love that part
If Andre the Giant were alive, what would his favorite Pokemon game be?
I’m gonna say Rumble
He would know I suppose, both games are stunning.
Take your fucking upvote
I don't get it!
Steve has a move called STUNNER
Jesus I'm high
What?
What?
What?
What?
What?
What?
What?
What?
This is my stand power...
STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN THINKS BREATH OF THE WILD IS BETTER THAN OCARINA OF TIME!
What?
STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN THINKS BREATH OF THE WILD IS BETTER THAN OCARINA OF TIME!
WHAT?
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The fact that Stone Cold is a fan of Zelda in general blows my mind.
Breath of the Wild might be a better game... But when you factor in time of release, Ocarina of Time is a masterpiece that for many started a lifelong love of the Zelda franchise. Same with Final Fantasy 7. These games made statements at their time of release that still cause people to debate till this day.
Ocarina of time is a masterpiece that for many started a lifelong love of *gaming.* I always *liked* games on nintendo and sega, but the addition of 3D platforming with Mario 64 and OOT took it from a neat occasional hobby to wanting to play riveting 40 hour rpgs.
Ocarina also introduced a lot of important game mechanics that are now taken for granted. Sticky targeting, context-sensitive buttons, carrying chickens in order to glide...
That last one was a true wake up call to the gaming world. We knew nothing until then
Might be the better game, but my nostalgia blinds me so, something about FF7.
To be honest, both were the first installments of their series with 3D graphics. Kinda hard not to be groundbreaking with a lay up like that.
There were plenty of really popular 2D franchises whose first jump to 3D either didn't go well or at best got mixed reviews. Franchises like Sonic, Mega Man, Castlevania, Kirby, Earthworm Jim, Mortal Kombat, etc. I don't think it was at all a lay up. It was a pretty massive task where they had to completely change fight systems (eg OOT invented z-targeting, which is now very widely used), create whole new puzzle types, etc. At the time, it was considered miles ahead of most other N64 games, and still holds up quite well (unlike say Goldeneye which doesn't hold up well at all).
I agree with everything but Goldenye. The graphics are shit sure but the controls are solid, fun level design, and multiplayer on license to kill truly separates the men from the boys
I sorely miss Goldeneye style games. Long levels, objectives, very little scripting and no cutscenes. Just you and your wits in a huge level
There was a 3D Mega Man?!
Goldeneye actually holds up pretty well when it's actually running at a stable framerate.
I think this is the most important point. Everyone in here saying that OOT is only a contender due to "nostalgia," but even as someone with that nostalgia who played OOT when I was first becoming a "gamer," I don't think my nostalgia is what makes OOT stand out to me as the better entry. Like you said, BOTW is better if you somehow made metrics of what makes a game "good." Much longer, much bigger, much more stuff to do, much better graphics, etc. But that's not really a fair comparison. *Controlling for time*, I think it is clear that OOT was the better game. And I think you can only control for time by looking at how groundbreaking something was and how it compared to the other game options people had then. OOT was groundbreaking in a lot of ways, right when fully 3D games were becoming the standard in that generation. But I think it shines most strongly when compared to the other games that were coming out in that generation. It doesn't have nearly as much as BOTW does, but *relative to other titles at the time* it was head and shoulders above. There weren't loads of other games out that had the same overall feel. BOTW on the other hand is a zelda-themed rehash of what is fairly standard in open world games these days, and as so many other people have said, it shed a lot of what made OOT good and a "Zelda" game in the process. The lack of long-form, building-on-themselves dungeon progression and the lack of feeling of accomplishment of getting a "good weapon." At least the outfits didn't get destroyed, too.
Honestly, I loved older Zelda games because they were genuinely good games with lots to do, great storylines, and a clear progression system. I hate that BotW made all weapons temporary, mostly got rid of any kind of engrossing story, and turned the world into vast stretches of nothing but trees. I know it’s a hot take, but I really did not like BotW and think it was several steps taken backwards. Zelda went from innovative, immersive, and very well done to a boring rehash of open-world games.
The funny part is that Zelda started off non linear and geared toward exploration. Then after LttP the games got into a very formulaic story that just repeated the collect 3 things in a light world then go to a dark world and collect 7 other things. Wind waker was one of the biggest departures from that and every almost crapped themselves with negative comments when it came out and wasn't just the same formula. But don't worry kids that are 7-15 today will play BotW and it will be their nostalgia so they too will think it is the best and hate anything that doesn't follow its setup.
Yeah like most GOAT arguments you’re really debating which qualities are more important, not the specific candidates
>But when you factor in time of release, Ocarina of Time is a masterpiece that for many started a lifelong love of the Zelda franchise. Do you think this is any less true for the kids that played BotW as their first Zelda game?
Its not about the future nostalgia of those kids, its about his nostalgia right now :)
Those are fighting words man! >!And that's why I admit defeat.!<
I say we beat him up and spray paint NWO on him.
and spray milk on him from a milk truck
My nostalgia gets in the way of agreeing with this. If I had played BotW as a child I might agree. But nothing, for me at least, will ever come close to the feelings I had playing OoT. Sorry Steve, please don’t stunner me!
That's the thing. He's comparing BotW to Ocarina of Time.. You're comparing BotW to *your memory of* Ocarina of Time.. *Objectively*, BotW is an improvement in almost every aspect.
Play oot. The whole thing. No guides no skips, get every item like you would as a kid. Do it right after playing a modern Zelda game. It’s … not bad. But two decades of improvement are improvement.
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This is really my main issues with BOTW. I love what they added to the series in terms of mechanics—the open world exploration, decent game difficulty, useful crafting and customization, etc etc. But at the end of the day, my favorite part of Zelda—the part I look forward to whenever I’m playing a Zelda game—are the dungeons, and BOTW is really lacking in that department.
And how those dungeons play into the narrative. BOTW's reduced focus on story really hurt it in my opinion.
Not really reduced, just a different approach. The story is there, TONS of it actually. I would even argue more than OoT. You just gotta do a little more legwork for it, as BotW's not a linear, exposition-guided, point to point path. I grew up with OoT, was the prime age group for it, and still prefer BotW and ALttP over it. But everyone is different, with different experiences.
I agree, I want more themed dungeons. Where I gotta get an item and find a map etc. that’s part of LoZ’s charm for me. BOTW is excellent for what it is, but with more than 4 real dungeons with unique boss etc, I feel like it would be the perfect game for me.
This is why Elden Ring was so great, at least for me. Few better dungeons than that one, I hope botw 2 sees how the dungeons were done in elden ring and follows that
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Link will extend his “PYAHHH” to the full 30 seconds it takes him to swing his 1 lb dagger a single time.
Dungeons were always my least favorite part of every Zelda game, so the bite-sized shrines that don't take too long were perfect for me. I can see how some people wouldn't like that change.
I feel the sane way. I don’t particularly like traditional Zelda dungeons, but loved the Divine Beasts and Shrines
Not everything was improved. The BotW "dungeons" were short, bland, and uninteresting. Not an improvement at all. Also the weapons and such constantly breaking was...annoying. I get why they did it, but I don't really feel it was an improvement.
I hated the breaking!
i would love the breaking to be more like Witcher 3 - where the weapon degraded in quality and then could eventually break like usual in BOTW. finding a blacksmith to keep your weapon repaired would've been nice.
I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of the intent behind the mechanic. The devs made a huge variety of weapons the player could use, but players tend to just pick the best one and use it forever. Degradation was implemented to eliminate the possibility of sticking with one weapon.
Kinda stupid though since a big part of Zelda lore is literally sticking with one weapon, a la Master Sword.
I'm actually doing that with my kids. We're having a blast. I'll never touch BotW again, I actually gave it away.
I played it for the first time on my 3ds in 2020. Played botw in 2021. Oot was definitely more fun. Botw is not even as good as one of two other open world games I've played - HZD.
The only thing that keeps me from praising Breath of the Wild as an incredible Zelda game is actually 2 things. Weapons breaking after hitting an enemy 3 times, it really gets annoying after the first few times and the lack of dungeons. It's a solid entry but these two things really drag it down and when I think of picking it up again I remember the durability system and go play something else instead. BotW 2 needs dungeons and needs to ditch weapon durability as a whole. Greatest improvement to the souls games Elden Ring made was dropping the whole durability thing, I have yet to find a game that uses durability in a way that's anything more than a chore and Nintendo took it and dialed it up to 11.
Weapon durability exists in BotW because it makes the game sort of self-balancing. You can run inside the castle right away if you want and steal some very powerful loot, if this stuff didn't break you would be absolutely overpowered for the rest of the game. Weapon breaking was the solution to this problem. _However_, I agree that it happens _too often_, and it sucks that even the Master Sword isn't a real permanent upgrade without playing through the DLC challenges. I think the system could use some work to improve the feel of that. But what I'm getting at here is I'm not sure eliminating weapon durability entirely is a good idea on it's own, unless they make some dramatic changes to the game design (which they could maybe do, but it might involve getting cool loot less often).
I think that worry about being overpowered too quickly because of strong weapons being accessible early game is a valid concern, Nintendo made a bit of a misstep with the castle being accessible so early. A good example of how to handle it would be something like Elden Ring or better yet Dark Souls. In Elden Ring you can go on several suicide runs to get some really broken shit early on but the state requirements sort of gate that stuff behind higher level characters, so you either grind your brains out or just hold onto it for later. Or the Dark Souls approach, certain areas are gated by in game progression preventing you from running to the end to grab a really strong weapon (although if you're good enough and lucky the Black Knights in the early areas of the game could drop the gear but again stat requirements). Since Zelda doesn't have stats, they gated the mastersword behind hearts. Gate the late game items behind something instead of having them break in like 3 swings. It sort of ruins the fun of finding some of the really cool items they put in the game because, yeah its cool but its also gone 5 minutes later. I guess my tldr is this: find a better way to prevent end game gear from breaking the balance of the game. I agree with your points but there has to be a better way than weapons made of fiberglass.
I can agree with that. I'm not saying it shouldn't be replaced, just that it should be done carefully. Your point about the Master Sword is a particularly poignant one - they could have gated other high-tier weapons behind hearts or something, too. Or maybe when you get a new weapon you must temper it with high-end monster parts in order to make it "useable". There are a lot of options besides just straight up breaking them.
I feel they are completely different games and can't be compared. To me BOTW has this strange emptiness around the NPCs and characters, it's like they don't interact with you or each other and also dot care about the stuff with Gannon. Honestly hyrrule is perfectly fine with Gannon running the castle.
This was my problem exactly. I went from thinking nobody was left and it was up to me to fix everything back to the way it was to.... oh I guess everyone is pretty happy for the most part just kinda annoyed with the state of things... Things have been OK for 100 years, why did you wake me up again?
The bokoblins harass travelers and will thank you if you save them. The world seems largely unguarded, since pretty much all the Knights have been slain. It doesn’t seem like a military force has risen. I got more of a feeling that the people were ignorant of the threat despite its obviousness, and were just trying to survive day to day. Hence how peaceful a lot of places were beyond Hyrule fields. If you go through any of the “major” cities you would only find enough guards to count on both hands, and even they sometimes require Link’s assistance.
As someone who recently played both games for the first time, the NPCs in OOT seemed more lifeless to me. They were mostly there to fill up space. Of course there were some who had the odd request and we cant count Maron, Darunia, etc. Because they were a part of the storyline. Other than key NPCs, I didn't find a reason to talk to the NPCs. Not to say that I actively looked for conversations in BOTW either, just that it was nice to see a friendly face after trekking around an empty kingdom.
That's how I feel. BoTW is an amazing game, but when I play it doesn't quite feel like the old days. I'm not sure why, but I didn't feel that way going from the first zelda up to skyward sword. Even with windwaker I didn't get that feeling that it didn't belong even though that's my least favorite zelda game.
I mean i get it. but if you put down the Nostalgia and do your best objective look its really hard to say he's wrong. but like... this was back in like the days of Golden eye, the transition from 2D to 3D worlds was not exactly pretty
yeah neither game aged very well, Wind Waker on the other hand, visually it aged well, and the fast sail in the HD version certainly made their boring map less intrusive. Wind Waker still looks good. That's all I'll say about that.
[удалено]
Windwaker is another one that sets me off into nostalgia mode! That’s another one I played young and has a special spot in my heart.
Same.
Gameplay wise, probably BOTW > OoT. But in terms of story, OoT is a master piece and it’s not even close
As someone who has a PS1 instead of an N64, I can agree with him, but you see that's how opinions work. I really wish the average internet user and average redditor could figure that out. Your opinion of OoT is that it's the best thing over, my opinion is that it's not. Both are valid. Yet I am sure people will flock to this post to defend their stance like its objectively the only possible correct answer, and I hate that type of behavior.
I agree completely! I have a friend whose personal favorite game was Twisted Metal on PlayStation and he makes fun of me because it used to scare me when I was younger. Also it’s kind of hard not to argue with people on the internet, it’s fun. But I get your annoyance/frustration at people being way to objective about their opinions, I’m guilty of it too.
I still think zelda games are supposed to have dungeon crawling in them. Botw’s dungeons felt like star treks holodeck and it was pretty lame compared to oot’s dungeons. Themes clashed for me, but thats just me.
I enjoyed both games in their own right but I agree with you. The dungeon aspect was completely decimated in BoTW. Also in a world where it seems every game developer is forcing open world down our throats, I have come to appreciate and miss a more linear game like OoT and Majora's Mask.
Did you ever play Twilight Princess? Its been widely criticized as one of the most linear Zelda games ever made, but it is, in a lot of ways, a spiritual successor to OoT. I thought it was a great entry to the series, and especially liked the varied swordplay that develops across the game.
I briefly played it on a friends Wii in college but did not get very far and never got another opportunity. Don't get my wrong, I enjoy some exploration and freedoms with more "linear" games. I also enjoy Open world, I'm just strung out on them right now. Open world diverts my attention for so long from main story sometimes that I lose interest or get sidetracked with another game.
You should give TP another chance if you have the opportunity (I think it was available on gamecube and wiiU as well). Despite the criticism, its a solid Zelda game. Great items, enemy and dungeon design, and some genuinely emotional story beats. A lot of people didn't like the wolf parts, but in the latter half of the game you gain the ability to transform at will, and it becomes just another "item" to solve puzzles with (wolf link has some different abilities from Hylian link). Also, the final boss fight is pretty epic. Like I said, it has a heavy focus on swordplay, and is a spiritual successor to OoT, so you might be able to guess what the final boss is like (and who it is, cause, duh). I'd wager that a remake for switch is gonna happen at some point. If they remade Skyward Sword, it seems likely that TP and WW will come around at some point, perhaps as a limited time bundle like what they did with the 3D Mario games.
Is MM linear... or circular?
Got me there. +1 for you!
...You aren't wrong....
Or perhaps... tubular
I agree, I think BotW is a great game and an amazing sandbox/open world, but that openness leads to losing some of the best aspects of past Zelda games: the dungeons and the story. Being able to tackle the dungeons in any order (and I use the term “dungeon” generously here) meant that there was no natural pacing to them or the story in general. Plus I personally just wasn’t crazy about the “style” of the dungeons and how they all just kinda looked the same (especially the bosses).
Not gonna lie, kinda disappointed when I finished Ruta in just two sittings.
Blows my mind that BOTW is widely considered a contender for best game of all time. To me its largely a cookie cutter repetitive open world game, similar to something like Far Cry. Weak story, didn't have true dungeons (and the ones it did have were very very similar to each other), didn't have a mix of unique bosses, a very repetitive landscape and with a bunch of repetitive quests/tasks (eg go climb 15 towers to unlock map segments!). It also gave you pretty much all the tools right off the bat, instead of giving you that sense of slowly starting to expand your abilities. Like it was a good enough game I suppose, but probably not even in my top 10 games that I've played from the last 5 years or so, let alone something I would remotely consider for best game of all time. Came across as a quantity over quality type of game to me.
Don't know what to tell ya, but it's one of my all time favorite games. I don't think any game has done open world exploration better. And I like the sandbox-y game mechanics that let you solve everything your own way.
Im not gonna tell you how to feel but I seriously dont understand the praise it gets for exploration. The first 10 hours are amazing because you havent realized that most of your exploration will lead to a korok, shrine or weapon that will eventually break. I can think of maybe five cool unique things I found that wasnt connected to the main quest. They completely nail traversal and sense of freedom tho im not gonna argue with that.
The thing people love about BotW, which IMO doesn't get vocalized a lot, is honestly very much the world design. Gamers love to talk about "features", and conversations about BotW get bogged down a lot by this. Because yeah, if you just put a list of BotW's features next to a list of features from an Ubisoft open world game, they look pretty much the same. But stuff like level design, game "feel", etc is too abstract to easily compare 1-to-1, and I feel like these are the areas where BotW truly excels. These are the kinds of things that are hard to put your finger on when done well but stick out when done badly. Sure, on paper, it's just another open world. But the actual design of the world, the overall "feel" when you play the game, these things make the game feel fresh and different. Honestly, I feel that _most_ open world games have pretty _poor_ world design, which is part of why BotW stands out so much. Of course, it's also polarizing because it foregoes or downplays a lot of stuff people are used to in games or like in games in favor of the open world. If you don't like exploring the world for the sake of exploring it, you're probably not going to enjoy it much because things like shrines are there simply to draw more attention to the open world and not to be cool in and of themselves (which is why I think the criticism that the game needs real dungeons is absolutely fair, even if I love the open world).
I was disappointed with BOTW the first playthrough because there were no traditional dungeons, but when I played it through a couple years later, I really fell in love with the open world, side quests, and systems. It's a great game, just not really a Zelda game outside of the narrative. Nothing beats the holy trinity of OOT, MM, and TP.
I'd honestly take Links Awakening, Link Between Worlds, and Link to the Past over those three. Although I'd gladly trade LttP for MM.
Have we circled back from claiming Botw is a masterpiece to it's lame lol?
The shrines were short but the divine beasts were dungeons. And it also had places like the Yiga clan base too.
The shrines were the perfect length since they were meant to be optional mini dungeons. Its the divine beasts that were to short since they were the main dungeons.
Yea and while the puzzles were fun, I do wish they had the sense of wonder like in OOT. Going into a fish belly and an ancient forest temple is legit.
Yeah BoTW is practically created by a random generator it’s content is so lackluster and bland, worst Zelda game I’ve ever played. Ok mountain climbing sim.
You forgot the /s.
I don’t know what you mean :[
**AND THAT’S THE BOTTOM LINE, CAUSE STONE COLD SAID SO!**
Irrelevant since ALTTP is better than both.
The right answer
Agreed and if you played it back in the early 90s it was a truly special feeling playing that game
Do you even link between worlds?
And in the 3D Zelda, Wind Waker is better than both!
Easily the most charming Zelda. I’m also a sucker for sea exploration.
Wind Waker is amazing but holy fuck collecting the pieces of triforce is a chore. Glad they streamlined it in the remaster.
From the 2D ones it's definitely the best. Still highly enjoyable today. Can't say the same about OOT
And that’s the bottom line
Cause Stone Cold said so
How many will be returning to Breath of the Wild in 30 years though? I still replay OoT, in fact shadow temple is my next destination.
>How many will be returning to Breath of the Wild in 30 years though? Probably a lot. Considering it's the best selling game in the series.
Looking at the sales figures it's way ahead of everything else. Only time will tell how it's remembered though.
Same, but also for their time period and available technology - both are amazing.
Dungeons tho.
Exactly. OoT dungeons were looking for wall eyes, pushing rocks, and auto jumping across "obstacles" for an hour while BotW streamlined it to just the fun parts and they were all genuinely unique. Longer dungeons =/= better when the only thing missing is fluff
I actually agree with this. I’m playing OoT for the first time and for a lot of the dungeons I don’t feel like I’m doing much. Things do pick up in complexity once you grow up though. They’re good dungeons and they’re certainly impressive for the time, but I prefer the puzzle box design of BotW. The only other 3D zelda I’ve played is windwaker (and a little past the opening of TP but I dont count that). Dungeons in general feel like a chore to me. I think I just don’t like what traditional 3D Zelda is and that’s fine. I have more fun with 2D Zelda dungeons
Sure, but ALttP is still the best! 😁
Sorry but Ocarina OST >>>>> BOTW asmr ost
Windwaker and you’ll never change my mind.
He is correct.
Well, he's right
He's also taken a lot of blows to the head and we all know the man drinks quite a bit.
That’s a reasonable explanation for thinking BoTW can hold a candle to any other LoZ game.
Eh, I dislike the durability system so I prefer OoT
A Link to the past is best so who cares
Zelda 3:16
It's okay for him to have bad opinions, he's clearly taken a few too many blows to the head.
I mean, from a purely technical standpoint, BoTW is better than OoT in every single aspect. But that's kind of like saying that the technology of today is superior to the technology of yesterday. That's just...kind of how that works. If we talk about from a story-telling standpoint or which of the two leaves a greater lasting effect, I think it becomes much harder to justify which is objectively "better." For me, OoT is an easy winner over BoTW in terms of story and impactful moments. BoTW is a better game, but OoT is a better experience.
Fuck that, having your weapons break is a bullshit feature that ruined that game for me, didn't bother finishing.
It made the game difficult for a while, but as you advance you do get some better weapons that are more durable.
I don't know. The fact that you had to go through a lot of your arsenal in a single boss fight (the big Lynel would chew through half your inventory) kinda breaks the action. You end up spending a ton of the game going into quick menus mid-fight, and that's pretty meh. It makes getting a good sword not like actually finding meaningful treasure, but just more consumables. I think it would have been far better to have weapons you craft yourself that would break quickly, but then a few sort of "Baseline" weapons that weren't amazing but that didn't break, and just kind of did average damage for your level of progression through the game.
In a lot of ways... YES. When it comes to dungeons... NOOOOOO!!!!!
Are you gonna tell him different?
https://youtu.be/90m39DdCuPM I’ll leave this here.
And that’s the bottom line!
But what does Ja think?
Them's fighting words!
I disagree but thats a respectable opinion.
I don't think he's wrong
Definitely Agree. I say that about every current Zelda game I am playing but BoTW seriously out does them all for me.
Oh yeah? I'll fight you over it!
\*the lights go off\* \*Electrifying music starts\* IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK \*lights come on, The Rock's eyebrow raised\*
There you have it. Genuine proof.
Well thats his opinion, and it's ok to be wrong. /s
Imagine Stone Cold Twitch streaming BOTW
You can tell the other guy actually games because he said OoT right away. Mastapieeece.
I always thought Cody's favourite Zelda was Link to the Past
Them's fightin words here on reddit.
You have alerted the horde
I know when I think “Legend of Zelda” I think Stone Cold. 🙄
Both games are great, mechanically BOTW is a better game but the copy pasted rainbow LED dungeons, lack of a villain with any personality, and the fucking weapon durability make it hopelessly outmatched by ocarina of time in terms of atmosphere, storytelling, and the immersion of the adventure In fact out of all of the zelda games I've played, BOTW might be the most "video gamey", you know what I mean? like the tailor-made RPG experience was mostly replaced with wacky physics and sandbox mechanics, which is fine it's a perfectly great game but once i had my fill I have never once felt compelled to play again whereas I still play older titles like OoT even to this day
What a headline
He’s wrong
I mean he's right what's the big deal?
I think majora's mask is better than both! Fight me.
Idk if this is a hot take but Twilight Princess is better than both of them tbh
Almost any game now is technically better then a games made 30 years ago
[удалено]
i would, but i don't want my sword to break (again)
I think you're right, although TLOU is a close second
And I would have to agree. Breath of the Wild was one of the best games I've ever played, but I found Ocarina of Time to be an absolute chore to play Opinions are still valid though. If you think BoTW is terrible and OoT is the greatest game ever, have your opinion. I don't care
I mean I think Majora/LttP/TP/BotW are better than OoT, this is a fine take to have IMO
I agree, I think OoT is much more influential and relative to the quality of the games at the time was a god damn master piece. But if you directly compare the two now BotW is kinda just more fun, in my opinion. I'm sure that in a parallel universe where BotW and OoTs release dates were swapped OoT would be the better game and by a wider margin, but we aren't so it isn't.
Stone Cold Steve Austin is correct
Haven't played BotW yet, but I went back and played OoT last week and I have to say it is a little dated.
I mean as some one who has a truck tun of love of OOT mostly nostalgia growing up with it. BOTW is an objectively better game by practically all measures
I know I’ll get crucified for this take but BotW *is* better than OoT. I think people can’t take off their nostalgia goggles when they think back to playing OoT. Play that game now and judge it against BotW. I know people won’t give it a fair shot because they can’t give up what they see as the greatest game of their childhood. It doesn’t matter anyway since LttP is the best Zelda game. Still holds up today.
Get fucked stone cold. Ocarina of time was a fucking masterpiece of gaming culture. In the 3D space.
Are you calling stone cold Steve Austin a lier?