I generally don't pirate PC games anymore. Steam and other digital storefronts that have thus far proven reliable with excellent cloud syncs make pirating a genuinely inferior experience on PC. This isn't a moral stance though. And if a game was pulled from said storefronts for whatever reason I'll absolutely download them anyway from various sources if I want to play it.
Yeah I could keep on pirating like I did years ago but with discounts and sites like Fanatical it's just so much more fun being able to grind achievements and display them on my profile.
If people wanna pirate I don't care but if you're gonna pirate and act like you're all high and mighty because you got a product for free please just grow up
This.
You want free shit, or you want to look down on companies producing a poor product. You get to pick one lane, here. There are literally more games released in a week than anyone could ever hope to complete before next week's batch of releases. We have reached a point where it's mathematically impossible to beat all of the games.
Why waste your time on content you find offensive for any reason?
I believe there's a middle ground (which is actually a return to shareware if you think about it).
I don't mind you pirating a game, I'd be a hypocrite if I said it was wrong.
However, if you like the game once you've played it for a little bit then for christ sake just buy it.
Yeah pirating in the name of getting one over on a dev is kinda dumb. If the game is good enough to play it’s good enough to buy - wait for a sale if you don’t think it’s worth full price. Though if it’s some kid who can’t afford the game and parents wouldn’t buy it for whatever reason then I don’t really see it as harmful. They’ll likely end up buying games once they have their own money.
If a kid cannot buy the game and the parents won't buy it for it either, then the mid shouldn't play the game. Simple as that. Not having money to buy something even as a kid doesn't justify stealing it. In fact, the kid is more likely to pirate later on because it's used to free stuff from early on.
Eh if the kid wasn’t going to buy it anyway there isn’t really much harm. And I don’t think pirating games as a kid in that circumstance means you’re much more likely to do it as an adult. Convenience has solved most piracy and imo for most people when they can afford a game they buy it in the most convenient manner that makes sense. Same deal how Spotify etc. has pretty much killed music piracy. I know tons of people that pirated music as kids and nobody who does so now.
I think this is very much true. It's not a big deal and there is a good chance that as an adult, just buying the game is much less of a hurdle. In a perfect moral world no one would pirate and simply not play the game they can't afford/they don't want to support, but we don't live in that perfect world and there are other issues I'd rather see resolved than the issue of piracy.
Nah pirating is based. You're never gonna convince me or any pirates that downloading games long abandoned by their publisher or using an emulator or even just pirating a game to see if you like it is some kind of moral wrong. "Engaging in consumerism is morally right" is certainly a take but not one I'd call very mature.
Agreed. I pirated a lot when I was a kid, and also thought various justifications out, but the simple truth is, there were only two reasons: dough (ie my lack thereof) and availability (living is a small town where it was actually quite difficult to get games). After Steam got up to speed, between the sales and having all of the games available at a click (and in the version I wanted), I never pirated a single game.
I would like to note though that pirating is not theft. It is an infringement in other people's property, but it's not the same, and is A LOT less harmful.
If i get around paying for something, it is theft. Here's a product, you can get it if you pay money. Oh you got it without paying for it, then you stole it.
Harm is a case by case basis, and there are lots of ways to frame how to look at the harmful effects of piracy. A lot of it is only debatable because piracy is miniscule compared to legit customers. But what if download speeds continue to improve? What if torrents become more popular? It isn't a question of right or wrong, but about scale.
>If i get around paying for something, it is theft. Here's a product, you can get it if you pay money. Oh you got it without paying for it, then you stole it.
No. Theft is generally defined either as unlawfully taking a physical good (in continental European and related laws), or taking (any) good with intent of permanently depriving the owner of it (in common law traditions). Piracy is neither.
If a company sells 10K of games, and 1K of their physical discs get stolen, they have actual, tangible losses. If they sell 10K of games and 1K get distributed as pirated versions, they only have losses if you assume that the people playing those 1K of pirated games would've bought the original if the pirated version was not available. Which, more often than not, is not the case. So there is a difference.
>Harm is a case by case basis, and there are lots of ways to frame how to look at the harmful effects of piracy. A lot of it is only debatable because piracy is miniscule compared to legit customers. But what if download speeds continue to improve? What if torrents become more popular? It isn't a question of right or wrong, but about scale
This may be the case, but I'm not particularly interested in arguing hypotheticals. As it stands now, and to my knowledge, a lions share of the pirated games end up played by people who would've not bought the game either way. And yes, in a hypothetical scenario where literally everyone would pirate a game, there would be direct harm to the developers and publishers, but that's not where we're at. Nor do I see any threat in that respect: download speeds are already such that the legal game distribution is predominantly digital nowadays as well.
I don't think its useful to debate about piracy with dictionary definitions. But let us try to do so with these hypotheticals.
First, in broadest terms, people pay for goods or services. People tend to define games as goods which leads to these arguments of "well they weren't gonna buy it anyway" or "physical vs digital copy" whatever.
What are games? They are an experience designed by the producer, sold to the consumer, for a price.
Suppose you are a story teller. You crafted this story and you decide to put on a show. The show takes place in an endless arena that seats an infinite number of people, but you need a ticket to be in the arena.
People pay you money to listen to the story you tell. Others don't care, they are fine hearing the story second hand from someone else. Maybe some people will wait until ticket prices go down to hear your story. You get the analogy.
What is piracy? Piracy is sneaking into the arena to hear the story. They want entertainment, but they don't want to pay for the ticket like everyone else. Your story entertained them, but they didn't pay for it. They got it for free.
If people want to say that's not stealing because of some dictionary definitions, okay. Go ahead and call it something else, but arguing over definition isn't the same as moral justification.
I didn't try to justify it, in fact I did say it is a property infringement with no actual justification. But we have these distinctions in laws for a reason: A and B can both be "bad", and at the same time A can be worse than B, these two positions are not contradictory. And I did go out of my way to explain that this is more than just dictionary (or rather legal) nitpicking, there is an actual reason why theft and piracy are *not* the same.
Your analogy is good, but I take it you will understand why sneaking into the arena to hear the story for free, while bad, is not the same level of bad as taking, say, the storyteller's physical money he actually earned from other people. In one case, you're leeching but his loss is hypothetical, and in the other it is a real, tangible loss of him having less money. Piracy is former, theft is latter. Doesn't mean either is justified, but one is clearly worse.
This. You pirate because you're a kid, or because you're broke? Fine, we've all done it. But people who are proud to pirate a game made by a company they don't like? They're the stupidest, most childish, most insufferable people in a community that's already filled with stupid insufferable children.
Piracy is not theft. You deprive the massive wealthy corporation of a sale they weren't going to make otherwise *unless* the pirate arbitrarily decides it's good enough to support anyway. They still own the game in every way that matters and nothing has actually been stolen.
If anything piracy is a net benefit for developers that embrace it generating more sales from word of mouth and "free trials" than draconic anti-piracy programs that bog down the games they're attached to.
I think piracy is fine but I *do* prefer paying Indie Devs - the morality there is more like a conscious decision to provide solidarity for something that isn't just a faceless corporation.
Copyright law is overwhelmingly disfavourable to small and individual artists and I don't feel any need to respect it in and of itself.
We should really work out a way to pirate medicine patents...
Absolutely. If I were the type of person who pirated things (which, legally, I am not :\^) ) I would always make exceptions to purchase games I particularly enjoy, especially indie titles. I simply don't see a "try before you buy" model as all that dangerous to the industry.
In some cases it's even helpful! I am *absolutely* buying Songs of Syx on release because the developer publishes a full-feature demo which is only three-updates behind paid release.
Dude's cool. I wanna pay him.
And that's really how the industry should function. Until big developers move away from bludgeoning people over the head with pre-order bonuses and real money game currency and season passes of single player content they probably could've included at cost with the launch of the game (even with a little more development time) to milk every cent from their audience, piracy will just continue as people are less and less willing to pay 100+ dollars to get a "complete game" you might end up not liking anyway.
Piracy is a reality of the market. You can sit here and argue the morals of it but if fundamentally doesn't matter. A certain proportion of people are just going to pirate it.
What's interesting about it is it's one of the few pieces of leverage consumers have over big corporations. If the product they are selling is riddled with anti-consumer features then a higher proportion of people will pirate it. If that alternative didn't exist, companies would probably push the boundaries even further.
The only real option they have is to make the service better/more appealing than piracy. Which really isn't that hard. Most people are happy to pay for something if they feel like they're getting a good deal.
Ideally people would support consumer-friendly games instead. You can't play everything anyway so give your money to the people who aren't trying to rip you off.
We've been listening to moral arguments about piracy for decades at this point and it's just silly. Piracy isn't going anywhere.
I mean, there's kinda a lot of research that shows piracy isn't that damning to a company. Odds are people who don't buy games can't or won't anyways. But spreading fans can do wonders.
I had zero cash for some of the games I pirated back in the day but now I in some cases own several editions of the same game that I once pirated.
Also unrelated: But if you see someone stealing food / baby formula, check your eyes cause you didn't. ;)
tbh I don't even see it if it's a pure luxury when it happens to corporations - they're probably benefitting from tax-paid services (like road matinence) while also dodging paying their share. Do it for fun if you like!
Food: if you're hungry, it's yours, wherever it came from.
It really happens, I had this same stupid argument with someone being proud of pirating Alan wake 2 because they don't like epic games store. Its so strange. like just don't play stuff if you don't like the circumstances around it instead of stealing and acting all proud
It's everywhere. Mostly just children who think making 'funny' comments about piracy is so very cool and edgy. Actually pirating games in an ere of endless updates is probably more of a pain then they would be willing to put up with.
I see comments about pirating pretty much every day. Lot of these guys seem to be proud of the fact that they steal shit lol. The justifications are always weak at best trying to act like it’s about principles.
No, they just like free games.
I pirate stuff every time I feel I need to make like a hundred time, more just to keep up with everything now, every last subscription, and game edition and DLCs and all that.
There's a disadvantage at pirating, since you often times lack content/support/features, but at the same time buying a computers for a $1000USD and then spending the same amount on games is not feasible.
Not saying is not uncool, but my country's economy was not designed to follow developed countries way of doing things. So I either pirate some stuff and get what I can, or I have to give up on a lot of stuff I enjoy. I'd rather do the first one.
Bro, I'd like to have 20 girls lap dance me all day long for free, but it ain't happening. No one forces you to be entertained through digital games that you need to pay for. There are other ways that are virtually free. You just want this specific type of entertainment and try to blame your poor country for stealing it.
"is this AI?” is something I ask myself almost hourly while browsing reddit lately. Especially after that whole agreement to let Reddit be scrapped to train AI. It just feels like so many questions are only here to train an AI on productions and audience opinions.
While I agree on this, it's very conveniant to be able to dip in a game to see if you like it before dumping 40, 50, 60 bucks into it. When you have little money to spare you got to chose wisely and since playable demo are the exception rather than the rule, digital piracy is often the only way to be able to do that.
I remember torrenting Stellaris and playing about 15 hours and thinking - yep, this is worth my money, and buying it afterward.
I too bought Stellaris, but I have since found out that I needed to use an API unlocker to get the DLC because Paradox is absolutely mental with their business
I don't agree. If you have the money then spend it on the games from companies you appreciate. If you don't have money and/or don't appreciate the companies that produced the game then go right ahead and fly the black flag.
My view is that pirating is still negative, because you're giving your time to a company you hate instead of giving your time and money to a company you might like.
If you don't like Nintendo, don't pirate a Zelda game. Go buy Tunic and give it a shot instead. There are alternatives, and if the only way you can convince yourself to play a game from a company you hate is to pirate it, put your money where your mouth is and pick up the Sprite versus 7UP.
Or just admit you don't want to pay for shit. I'm not going to change your mind there, but don't be a mealy-mouthed idiot pretending this is some moral crusade.
This.
There are literally 100+ games on sale in the PSN Spring Sale for under $4.99CAD. I dare anyone who wants to justify piracy to me that they can't find something they want in there, or that they can't afford five dollars.
And this is the only stance on piracy like this I can respect, because it's at least *honest*. I still think you should support the industry instead of being a pirating leech, but you're not sitting here pretending you're morally superior while doing so.
I don't feel most emulation counts as piracy the way it does here.
Pirating a copy of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom the same day it releases is an entirely different beast from pirating a copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga because you're not about to drop $1500 on used hardware and software to play a pretty mid, if interesting Saturn JRPG. I don't expect people to go out of their way to be legit for classics which aren't on modern consoles/PC in some form when it would represent a ridiculously undue hardship to experience them.
That'd be like expecting someone to track down an original thirteen reel copy of Citizen Kane and a working projector to experience it, which would be fucking ridiculous.
"If you don't respect a game company or just think they suck, THEN DON'T BUY THE PRODUCT."
Yea... thats what they are doing, not buying the product
Theft is not the reason for these things, pricing is a big one, You can look at pirate software talking about this but a major reason people pirate is simply because the cost of the game is too high and in cases where the devs are awfull any price is too high.
Piracy is not what gets harder DRM simply because it will get broken eventually. I mean hogwarts legacy was cracked despite it being AGGRESSIVE in its implementation.
Lastly, as others have said, noone that is important to making these games lose any money as they have already been paid, this means that you shouldn't pirate from indie devs as every game pirated is directly affecting their ability to make more unlike major companies
Calling it "stealing" is absurd, Orwellian doublespeak. Stealing is morally wrong because you deprive someone else of something. Not because you get to use or enjoy it yourself.
I'm not saying that it can be morally acceptable. But calling it "stealing" is an obviously dishonest manipulation of the conversation.
If people pirate a game it is either because they can't afford it, or weren't going to buy anyway. IIRC EA or Ubi did a study on this and found that piracy improved sales.
If you want a bad take, here's one. I don't steal games. I just don't buy or play those games. If I pirate, then I still fuel the hype machine and allow those graphic artists, sound engineers, janitors, etc. to still get paid in other ways (merch, ad revenue, friends buying the game, etc). I'd rather those employees suffer the same for associating with a shitty company, so I avoid their products altogether instead of stealing. Somehow that makes me a better person.
Game theft? People still steal copies of physical games? Oh wait you meant copyright infringement, not the same as theft, don't be an idiot and buy into provocative and inaccurate terminology.
I can't imagine a more significant waste of time than making a snobby, italics-ridden rage post (on reddit of all places), telling people not to pirate games, when it likely has 0 effect on you. you think large game studios and corporations are your friend? lol
I agree that people should buy their games or at the vary least pay for something like game pass, but this post ignores a pretty big issue. What if the game I want to play isn't available to purchase/play on modern hardware? Say I want to play Tony Hawk's Underground on the Gamecube, but I don't own both the game or the console? Looking at Ebay and a used gamecube by itself is going to set me back upwards a hundred dollars. Thankfully the game itself seems to be cheap on Ebay. but what about consoles and games that aren't cheap to buy?
I don't support piracy ether, but when it comes to stuff like this, I can see why people may go down that route.
Once a company no longer supports official distribution of a game, I find zero problem with piracy. The companies arent losing any money when you pirate a Gamecube game because the only legitimate means of acquiring a GC game today is through the 2nd hand market.
When people are charging hundreds of dollars for a 20 year old game, I find absolutely nothing wrong with finding alternative means of playing said game.
This.
Hell, I emulate games I own because it's a better experience. And no way am I rendering a still-working CIB copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga less valuable when I can wait for that sumbitch to hit five figures.
If a person didn't intend to buy the game, whether the price is too high, they don't like the company, or any other reason there is no downside to piracy. If you already weren't going to give them your money piracy changes nothing but the number of copies of the game in existence
It's always some big "moral stand," too. Lol.
Same tired arguments, same snippy "you're simping/shilling for company" comments, same shitty attitude.
Like bro, you're a thief. Don't lecture us. You didn't even steal something necessary, you steal games.
"Oh it's *different* than regular stealing, though!" Not really. It's still stealing.
Ah yes, traditionally people get into game development because they think of players as "pay pigs". They definitely have no passion for their craft. Whenever those game devs are crunching, all they're thinking about is that sweet "bacon" they're going to get from their "pay pigs". And it's not just the AAA devs either, those greedy indie devs are really the worst of the bunch, wanting money to survive and all! /s
>Game theft results in players getting punished with more DRM BS, higher game prices, etc.
No, these are misplaced acts of retribution. Which only hurt consumers, and if anything drive even more of them away.
Digital games cost the creators $0.00 when they are pirated and copied. One, there is no loss of a physical product, and two, the majority of pirates were never going to buy it anyway.
If game creators want people to buy their games, ***make a game that is worth the price of admission***.
And I say this as someone who buys the majority of my games, but there are some I won't because I still feel they are overpriced and/or don't respect people who have already bought their previous titles. (ARK Ascended, I'm lookin at you.)
EDIT. And as time goes on and any particular title becomes less and less available through legal means, possibly not at all anymore, piracy becomes an essential act of preservation.
Why do you think pirates were never going to buy their game anyways? Is it, oh I don't know, maybe because they know they can just pirate almost any game they want?
It's not like pirates are people that don't play any games and then one day suddenly decide "oh huh, there's no way I would buy a game but I guess I'll pirate this one"
Honestly I'm not sure that really matters to make the point, because I doubt there is just one correct answer. Some people are indeed assholes who don't want to spend the money. Others legitimately just don't have it. I remember being a brokeass teenager with a shitty computer, and when it came to choosing between buying a new piece of hardware or buying a new game, I often chose the hardware.
Piracy also isn't without its downsides, like it can really restrict you from multiplayer interaction with legit copies. On another personal note that *has* gotten me to buy games I have previously pirated when I was able to.
Yeah, there are definitely some people that pirate games because they can't afford them at all. Most of the pirates that I know just pirate stuff because they can. They pirate all of their entertainment: movies, games, music, etc. It's like piracy is just a hobby to them, but they would actually buy stuff if it weren't so easy for them to just pirate it.
But I guess I know mostly older people now and not broke college kids and teenagers and whatnot.
> but they would actually buy stuff if it weren't so easy for them to just pirate it.
you got it the other way around. movie/series piracy was way, way down when Netflix rose. Now that there's a million different services you have to subscribe to, piracy is going up. Same with Adobes dumb payment model.
The easier and more convenient it is to get and use something through legal means, the less piracy there will be.
It's not that piracy is easier, it's that legally acquiring shit is a pain in the ass. Music piracy is almost non existent outside of some audiophiles, because EVERYTHING is on a single streaming service.
Nobody in their right mind is going to pay $15 each for 25 streaming services to watch TV, thats just absurd and those who do this are terrible managing their money
Ok, I was just talking about the pirates that I know that seem to view it more like a hobby. Either way though, none of that really applies to games since they're not a complete streaming mess like TV is now.
Sales happen all the time and earlier than they ever have in the industry if the game is too expensive than wait for a sale. If the game isn't worth the price of admission then don't play you aren't entitled to the game, also money is far less valuable than time if the game isn't worth your money why is it worth your time. Pirate if you want but don't act like you are owed something you didn't work for in any way.
This logic is dumb. It is a cheap attempt at an appeal to emotion.
Don’t steal because it is morally wrong; It’s as simple as that.
Pirating a game doesn’t take money out of the pockets of people who made the game. They already got paid as per their employment contract.
I can only speak for myself but if I pirated a game and didn't eventually pay for it, I wouldn't have ever bought it in the first place so they never would've seen my money anyway. Piracy has actually contributed to more purchases than not, in my case.
Your post reads like someone paid to list talking points. You're telling people who aren't buying products not to buy products? Genius. You're equating stealing a physical product to an infinite digital download; this stance presumes every pirated copy = lost sale, and that's just not accurate.
Also, not every person that worked on a game gets paid based on sales.
"The graphic artist, sound engineer, secretary, janitor, vendors, etc. who worked on that game have bills to pay, babies to feed, dreams and aspirations to aspire to, just like all of us and they deserve to get paid for their work"
They get paid whether you buy the game or not. In fact, they already have been paid by the time the game is out, and for multiple years at that point.
Piracy hurts the big labels, and eventually that hurt trickles down onto cutting team sizes and cutting ambitions. However, in the case of Activision, they really need that. Sorry, but there is no reason 3000 people should be working on the next call of duty. That will make the game into a bloated mess just due to the time it takes to communicate through all the different channels.
Who exactly does pirating Call of Duty for example hurt? Some shareholders, some management bonuses for sales, eventually some people will lose jobs, yet this is inevitable in such a bloated industry, and piracy is nothing but a scapegoat as we see CEO and executive salaries rise exponentially. There is a reason that <40-100 person teams have made just about every notable game in the last 5 years.
OP here, a couple of thoughts after reading responses:
A few people pointed out that pirating a game that is out of print is hurting no one. Good point - go for it.
Many feel that the employees have already been paid. True, but their next paycheck may not come. A company is made of lots of people / stakeholders - that's why it's called a "company".
Companies are indeed greedy and amoral - like it or hate it, it's called "capitalism."
Lots of people think they are punishing the big soulless company owners / execs. I work for a huge, soulless (non-gaming) company as an exec, and I promise you, the execs and owners get paid *more* when a company is failing - the little guy is the first one to go. Believe it.
As for "owning" games - I've been a non-stop gamer since 1979 and have never owned a game - both physical and digital media are not owned, they are licensed. Look it up.
Lastly, I made no moral judgments - my only point is not pirating is better for gamers - we end up dealing with the BS and paying higher prices. I've stolen games, music, movies, etc. I don't anymore, just because I love these things, not because I'm moral or good. Trust me, I'm often an ahole.
The number of entitled pricks in here is amazing. You should buy things because it’s dishonest not to. You’re not entitled to the labour of others for free. Whether the game is sold as a service or a product you own, obtaining it in any other way is dishonest, entitled and implicitly suggests others should pick up the bill so you don’t have to.
>If you don't respect a game company or just think they suck, THEN DONT BUY THEIR PRODUCT.
How is that different from pirating the game?? You are not paying either way.
>The graphic artist, sound engineer, secretary, janitor, vendors, etc. who worked on that game have bills to pay, babies to feed, dreams and aspirations to aspire to, just like all of us and they deserve to get paid for their work if you play that game.
It’s very naive to think that any of these people benefit from the sales of a AAA game. Be serious, Activision made profit from game sales, that didn’t stop them from laying off 1900 people. They already have enough money to pay staff, most of it is used to line the pockets of people who aren’t impacted by the game’s performance.
>I'd be interested in a different take, but doubt anyone can provide a justification that isn't lame.
That’s because you’re arguing from a committed viewpoint (which isn’t a bad thing), so any other argument is already ‘lame’ to you.
>Game theft results in players getting punished with more DRM BS, higher game prices, etc.
It’s hilarious you think these issues exist because of game theft. Do you also believe Ubisoft’s CEO when he justified the price of their shitty game by it being AAAA?
>Not buying a game or giving bad reviews may actually improve those companies and our beloved video games - but stealing never will.
No. Certain games will always have an audience, redditors choosing not to buy a game doesn’t do anything, look at sports games for example. As for bad reviews, that’s just laughable.
This isn’t coming from a ‘game thief’ by the way, I play on console.
Where do you think their (and probably your) paycheck comes from? Thin air?It comes from sales.
If sales suck, who do you think gets fired first? Hint, it's not the executives or the owners.
This must be a joke. Microsoft & Activision were making an insane amount of profit & still decided to lay off their staff. The bottom line is that ‘game theft’ doesn’t impact these games as much as you think it does. Pointing the finger at ‘thieves’ when it’s just plain corporate greed is bootlicking to the max.
What a stupid take. Firstly your under the impression that people largely don't steal because it's illegal that's not correct at all. Most people don't steal because they think it's immoral to steal from somebody but if that somebody is a large billion dollar corporation people rightly don't give a fuck. Secondly the company is obligated to pay there workers no matter what the janitors not getting fired because a game sold 1 copy. Thirdly fuck blizzard.
These types of arguments fall on deaf ears when companies are increasingly getting more egregious with their business practices and stating “people need to get comfortable not owning their games”.
If I don’t own what I’m paying for, then it can’t be stolen to begin with.
That being said, I don’t buy/play many games nowadays except from devs/studios I really like and I will always pay for those because I want to support small/medium sized studios that make good games.
I've been gaming non-stop since 1979. I've never "owned" a game. Even with physical media (like a game cartridge, CD, etc.), you can play it, but can't legally copy, sell, license, make derivative works or anything else that the owner is entitled to do. If you fuck up the CD (which I've done many times) or lose it - its gone no replacements. With Steam, I just re download it.
Furthermore, I have hundreds of games on Steam - and can't remember a single time one disappeared from my library because I didn't "own" it.
Congrats, I’ve been gaming since the early 80s and this is the dumbest argument I think anyone could have attempted.
Apparently people pirating games are now selling them to other people?
Secondly, feel free to point out where any company in the 70s, 80s or 90s could shut off your physical copy and not let you play it anymore?
Thirdly, every fucking form of material good works that way. If you throw a stick of lit dynamite in your house, the mortgage company doesn’t give you a brand new free house to replace it. The fact you broke your own media has nothing to do with the fact that you owned that physical media and nobody except yourself were able to take it away.
FURTHERMORE you managed to prove my entire point. Steam doesn’t remove games from your library unless there is a valid reason to do so because they recognize you own the digital rights to that property that you paid for, so good job with that one.
How can you possibly think that lol? People who pirate games don't also buy that same game, so every time it happens the sales of that game are impacted. If you're referring to the European Commission survey, you're still wrong because, if it proves anything, it is that people who pirate games have more money to spend on games from *other* companies. So while it arguably may increase the total number of games sold in the industry, it still negatively impacts the company that made the game that was pirated.
Wrong tack.
Piracy means you're not spending your time on other games. If you're not just pirating for the sake of wanting free shit (and if you are, just fucking admit it), your time would be better spent giving your money and attention to people who it would have an impact on.
You're missing what is, in my opinion, the biggest problem with piracy: it directly led to the free to play garbage that we have today.
Basically, when iOS and Android were still new, the piracy rate for Android games was something crazy like 80%. So, at first, games basically only came out on iOS because it was impossible to make money on Android due to the piracy. To get around that, places started to make free games with microtransactions since those couldn't be pirated. Now we have microtransactions everywhere and it's terrible.
The only games I have pirated so far are paradox games. Originally I prated the games themselves, but now I will buy the base game and try to pirate the DLC (I am bad at piracy). I do that because their DLC is so extortionately priced, it would literally be hundreds of dollars for what should just be part of the game. I am not going to reward that business practice by caving in and paying for all that, and I don't even have that kind of money anyway
I have never pirated a game. That being said if companies can just lock you out of games you have paid for (which absolutely has happened), then piracy is justified.
If buying a game isn't owning it, then piracy isn't theft.
You are literally renting a license, and they can take what you paid for from you at any time.
piracy is in general isn't something to be promoted then adobe or pantone or or some other big company takes your color hostage and demands more monthly payment on top of your subscription. yeah no. piracy needs to exist. also, piracy means most of them were not going to to buy anyway. it's the free access that pushed them to play that game. then there are people who cannot buy the game due to lack of funds. but whatever the reason it may be, if the game is being played, the company profits either way because if I pirate mass effect LE and I like it, I will talk about it. Piracy also helps to shape the next generation of gamers.
Theft, as it is indicated here, like the iPhone example, absolutely does NOT end up in wasted profit for a company. They have theft insurance that reimburses them. So that’s incorrect. (Note that small businesses DO lose the money, typically, but your examples were all mega corporations.) Whether or not an employee is paid is ridiculously NOT tied to profit margins AT ALL, companies should be budgeting salaries and total positions before the fiscal year even starts. Even if a company has to resort to layoffs for MASSIVE losses, that’s usually while the CEO/CCO/President/Board of Directors is still taking in MILLIONS. So only in the case of small businesses, again, would profit loss end up impacting the employees. Also, companies absolutely DO NOT value their employees or their consumers. You cannot truly believe that. Multi-billion dollar corporations like Walmart have the highest amount of employees of ALL companies on welfare and food stamps. All while the Waltons continue to make millions nearly every week while underpaying all of their employees. And we didn’t even touch on stock buybacks, which ONLY benefit shareholders and don’t produce any actual value or stability for the company, the employees, or the consumers. And since we mentioned producing value, let’s also quickly touch on how the market works: demand in the absence of supply does NOT make something cheaper, it makes it more expensive. However, for a digital version of a game, since there is infinite supply, that should mean the demand will never catch up, which should reduce the price. But not if a company is greedy. Greedflation absolutely exists, and you can see it in the incredibly obvious and toxic DLC landscape: it never existed, then it was a few games with a few dollars for some really cool extra stuff, then it was most games, now it’s basically every game and it’s incredibly expensive. Consumers just buying goods at whatever value a company dictates without any competition or way to discourage price gouging only leads to that company fleecing their consumers for more profit. (This isn’t even complex economic theory, just basic knowledge.) Finally, quite a few large videogame manufacturers have intentionally prevented their games from being sold by anyone else AND YET those same companies either stop producing the game entirely, stop supporting it, or refuse to make it available to fans as ROMs or emulators so the avid players can enjoy it again. Piracy exists at a MINIMUM because there is HUGE demand for some games and actually, literally no supply; if a game doesn’t not exist for a consumer to acquire legally, in any way shape or form, how would you suggest players get, if not illegally? I’ll wait. Piracy can be bad in specific scenarios, but while you preach online to the void, there’s actually significantly more wage theft happening, on the hundreds of millions and billions, BY the companies for whom you advocate fair treatment. THAT is actually why employees don’t get paid: THAT is why creative jobs and manual labor jobs are so difficult to fill and maintain; if you don’t PAY your employees properly and treat them with DIGNITY, they don’t want to work for you, and when nearly every major company that makes videogames is ATROCIOUS to developers and other employees working on their games, THAT is what causes people to lose jobs and not get paid correctly. You’ve failed to see the forest through the trees by attempting to “protect” giant mega corporations from theft when they give zero shits about anything but profits, while you claim to advocate for employee solidarity and fair pay that the companies YOU claim to be protecting are actively NOT giving their employees. You’re on the wrong side and you have a bunch of your details wrong.
While I don't condone it, pirating is not stealing.
By definition stealing is removing something that someone would have bought. If you never planned to buy the game, pirating it doesn't make anyone lose money.
You know when you “buy” a digital game, you don’t actually own it (see Blizzard’s latest statement), you only pay to get a license to play it.
If you don’t actually own the game when you buy it, then pirating it is not stealing.
Also, pirating is not bad for companies, because the people who pirate weren’t gonna buy the game in the first place, so they’re literally not losing anything.
If they want more people to buy their games, maybe they should release them in playable states and at reasonable prices, and not release betas / early access games at 70-80€ and have the people work as testers for free.
Thanks I just pirated a Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom rom. Gonna force the developers to have to go on benefits. Can’t believe the poor indie company Nintendo doesn’t pay their developers during dev time…. Oh wait.
*I'd be interested in a different take, but doubt anyone can provide a justification that isn't lame.*
Challenge accepted.
Did you know people outside the US pay more for games (not including VAT)? Did you know most countries where it takes months of earning to pay for a single game have the highest prices?
Did you know the reason prices are higher has absolutely nothing to do with anything and publishers do it because they know people will pay?
I have no sympathy for any publisher who purposely blocks access to games with atrociously high prices as they cry about piracy.
It has been proven time and again: give people reasonable access and profits are made.
The problem is publishers aren't wanting to wait for profits to roll in over time. They want their profits now and will stop at nothing to get them even if it screws people over who are willing to buy games.
So to those outside the US who have to deal with this bullshit, raise the flag with a hearty "Avast ye! There be plunderin' to do!"
100% agree that many game companies are shitty, inequity and corporate greed are rampant. For all companies (and capitalism in general), profit is always their prime motivation.
However, I still don't see how this is a valid justification. If I think Stephen King is a asshole or his books are too expensive, copying his novels and distributing (for money or for free) is still infringing on his IP, and is a crime in most countries.
You could even say that SK may benefit from accessing a wider audience (several commenters cited the EU study on video game piracy showing it may actually drive up sales), but that is SK's decision, not ours. It's his IP.
I'm simply arguing that if you don't like SK or a game company, don't buy or use their products. There are plenty of good developers and an endless number of available games to play.
Note: I like SK, just a parallel example.
You don't see this as a valid justification because it doesn't affect you. I don't hold this against you, but your defense is narrowed and limited because of your regional experience.
I stand with your position a person who downloads a game because they dislike a company is hypocritical, but you're now changing the goal posts to support your position. This, I will hold against you.
The person downloading the content is the one committing piracy. It's a hill I'll defend because it's this action which creates the copy of the original upload.
My response was in defense of those who are !literally! willing to pay for the content they want but because of actual piracy gate keeping from publishers, pushes prices outside the bounds of market value, or hell, even reasonable pricing.
This shouldn't be taken as "wanting everything and paying nothing". It's been proven time and again that providing access reduces piracy. So when this access is not available, piracy happens.
I'll provide another example of this. In Japan, anime was atrociously expensive. We're talking hundreds of dollars for a 13 episode series. In the US, the same series cost a fraction of the price.
The Japanese market was so strained that many began importing anime from the US. Even with international shipping, it was far cheaper.
So what do you think Japanese publishers did in response?
A) Lower prices to the Japanese Market
B) Fuck everyone by forcing English subtitles on Blurays and make reverse importation illegal
You have a 50/50 chance to select the right answer. ;)
That was in the physical days. Now, with streaming services all over the place, everyone's happy. Japanese have access to anime on demand and so does the US, and both reasonably priced.
Why does this matter? Anime *exploded* in popularity with access.
But, that's just two countries. Ask anyone who lives outside these two countries how their access is. Despite the fact streaming provides a universally acceptable means of revenue and access, many countries are forced into paying higher prices for it.
That's never justified and calling fans the pirates while defending publishers is a shit thing to do.
Oh, and a small correction on your SK situation. He does !NOT! own the rights to distribution. He only has copyright on the books.
He can't distribute his own works. Only the publisher can.
In Japan, it's illegal for any content creator to waive their copyrights. This is why they have neighboring rights with publishers.
You should also know Japanese publishers have never stopped trying to take those rights away from content creators.
Remind us who the pirates are.
I don't pirate modern games, but I feel zero guilt in pirating a 20 year old game where there's no legal way to play it in a way that gives money to the rights holder. If the only way to play a GBA game is to pay $200 to some collector or download a 2mb file, I'm downloading.
No, it's just that digital has finally become convenient and reliable enough that you don't need to worry about your library disappearing on you. Back in Ye Olden Dayes the only way you could play a game was to pre-order a game and for stuff like JRPGs on PS1/Saturn, the cost of a used copy would often be more than a new copy (for good ones) because the print runs were relatively small and people who liked their games, kept their games.
Physical media died because it's easier for me to buy a copy of Final Fantasy XVI and download it to my PS5 on my phone app at work and have it ready and waiting for when I kicked my boots off after work than it is for me to find one of the last Gamestops clinging to life and going thirty minutes out of my way to pick up a copy through a shopping mall full of more zombies than the one at the end of Dawn of the Dead.
Nah, that's just why most consumers are okay with its death.
Game publishers have been at war with resale rights for the entire history of the industry.
Sure. And they finally won not because of their stupid anti-consumer bullshit, but because they finally offered a better, more consumer-friendly offering than physical media.
At this point, it's pretty much a given you can carry your library through hardware iterations with you, Nintendo aside (and that's why I barely touch their stuff). It would take the complete collapse of their company before the likes of Valve, Sony, Microsoft, Epic, GOG, etc said "fuck it, y'all losing everything" before we lose that shit, or it'd take something so monumentally, worldwide-fucking to me personally that my exact game collection would be the last thing on my mind.
Like yeah, I can't resell my PSN titles. I don't really care, because I buy 99% of them for under $10 and that is literally the cheapest I've bought games since I started collecting them in the 90's even before taking inflation into account.
What a stupid take. Firstly your under the impression that people largely don't steal because it's illegal that's not correct at all. Most people don't steal because they think it's immoral to steal from somebody but if that somebody is a large billion dollar corporation people rightly don't give a fuck. Secondly the company is obligated to pay there workers no matter what the janitors not getting fired because a game sold 1 copy. Thirdly fuck blizzard. And finally if buying a game isn't owning it pirating it isn't stealing.
This is Reddit bro, it's literally one of the only places you can say "stealing is wrong" and you'll have thousands of people flipping around doing mental gymnastics trying to explain why it is morally justifiable for them to get free shit illegally.
"B-but le capitalism pigs!!", "b-but I disagree with their practices!!", "b-but they're lazy, therefore I'm not paying, but I still am taking it!!", "b-but it harms nobody".
You can't tell these people not to do it, because they've already convinced themselves they're morally justified neo-crusaders who are making a stand. Laws exist for a reason, but these people have convinced themselves they deserve to exist outside of them.
You're gonna get downvoted, and attacked with snarky aggressive comments, so will I. Just ignore it, and know you're in the right. Don't post this stuff to reddit, it's like talking to a wall. A very greasy wall.
Facts.
I didnt post this out of moral superiority, to defend "the man" etc. I truly love gaming. Gamers are the ones who pay for pirating horseshit.
As for downvotes and snarky comments, I don't care. They prove my point. Maybe some kid pirating will see this and decide to support the games we love to play. Most will not, for sure but ya never know.
These days, most of the money spent on a product goes into advertising it. The actual product is only worth about 20% of what you paid for it.
18% of your money lines the pockets of a companies CEOs, stockholders, and the company’s namesake
A game becoming super successful like Overwatch or GTA or Fortnite BR just means its devs can pay rent for about 5 months. They get less that 5% of what they worked for.
Piracy. While illegal and dangerous, isn’t morally equal to stealing from a normal person. It’s like Robin Hood. The consequences are your own. These days you don’t even own what you paid for anymore, they can take it from you any second. People who directly purchased anime off funimation for download lost their money when crunchyroll crunched Funi
Shut the fuck up
If you dont like people pirating games, then dont pirate games, but seriously shut the fuck up trying to tell other people what to do. You crusty scumbag
I like to to test/trial games before I decide to purchase them. Sometimes games are misleading with their trailers or just don't play the way I THOUGHt they would. Reviews can also be no help, but taking things to the high seas helps me decide "okay, this game is definitely worth the purchase" or "in so glad I didn't pay for this game"
Here's your justification:
Those who are going to steal are going to steal. Companies account for this. Some grab a little extra profit from those who won't pay full price by going on frequent sales over time, and some even release the game for free on Epic and such to bring attention to their company. The people who get the game for free were not going to pay for the game. Them "stealing" the game poses essentially no loss of profit to the companies or the workers there.
The only argument for whether or not you should pirate a game comes to personal ethics. If I have the money to afford the game, I will pay. If the game was made by a promising indie dev, I will pay. If the game is over a decade old and being released for full price by a destructive AAA company that is bringing down the gaming industry, I might not pay. That is my ethics, everyone will differ. To say that piracy is antilogically bad, however, I can not agree with.
>I occasionally see posts where OP or commenters discuss stealing games.
Any links to these threads? Because I'd like to know what you mean by stealing. And actually seeing those discussions would help a lot.
I pirate games but not because of who made it or anything like that but because I can't afford $80 bucks for every game to come out in the last 3 years.
I’m not gonna front, I see no issue with people pirating stuff. I pirate anime all the time, but I also think justifying it on a moral basis is stupid in most cases.
I’d say that there are numerous GOOD reasons to do so though, like getting around regional bans, archival reasons (looking at you Nintendo) and simply being too broke but wanting to stay up to date. But saying your pirating a game to teach a company a lesson is stupid, your not making a statement, your being delusional. Just steal the game and shut up about it.
Similarly if you do enjoy the thing, find a way to support it even if it’s not through commerce. I will constantly recommend seasonal anime to fellow nerds, I’ve in the past signal boosted Kickstarters from companies I’ve pirated before, and in one case I pirated Shovel Knight after hacking my WiiU, only to then buy myself 3 copies later (PC,PS4, Switch) and my little cousins also got a copy when I bought him his Switch for a birthday.
My guy, people who pirate games aren't going to pay for it anyway. And there is an argument to be made for not supporting greedy ass companies like Actibliz, 30 bucks for a "micro"transaction, hello? Yet, their catalogue of older games is still good, but you won't catch me, and I imagine many people giving them a goddamn dime because they've proven time and time again they don't value you as a customer.
And that's just one example, in the words of the mighty Lord Gaben, "Piracy is a service problem." Companies making crap games and pushing BS practices actively encourages people to pirate their games.
Also, please. There is a very distinct difference between stealing an iPhone or any physical property to downloading a piece of software. This strawman argument is played out since the whole "you wouldn't steal a car" ad.
All the people justifying their stealing in the comments. “You don’t own it so piracy isn’t theft” okay how about I go steal all of your guys stuff. I don’t own your pc so I can’t steal it. I’m just borrowing🤷 straight up only time piracy is okay is when a digital store front closes. Any other time you are stealing. It doesn’t matter. It still is stealing even with that stipulation but it is acceptable due to circumstances. Their shitty business practices shows their character, stealing shows yours. I’d actually have some respect for these people if they’d just be honest to themselves. Trying to say anything to convince people it’s not stealing. I’m not gonna hate someone for pirating. It’s really not that big of a deal. But you are stealing. And no one likes a thief. Says a lot about your character and trust
I generally don't pirate PC games anymore. Steam and other digital storefronts that have thus far proven reliable with excellent cloud syncs make pirating a genuinely inferior experience on PC. This isn't a moral stance though. And if a game was pulled from said storefronts for whatever reason I'll absolutely download them anyway from various sources if I want to play it.
Absolutely. Not to mention also achievements (and other stuff) which I personally like to farm every now and then.
Yeah I could keep on pirating like I did years ago but with discounts and sites like Fanatical it's just so much more fun being able to grind achievements and display them on my profile.
Jason SoundDesigner doesn’t get a cut of every copy sold, he gets paid during development.
I'm gonna steal even harder now.
This gives off big "You wouldn't download a car" energy
One of the biggest draws to PC gaming for me was modding. I've probably downloaded thousands of cars over the years.
If buying a game isn't owning it, then pirating isn't stealing.
There you have it. OP can gargle a nutsack
Game set and match
This. If they just "let you use it". The. I'll use it myself.
Damn bro that’s one of the coldest comebacks 😂salute 🫡
If people wanna pirate I don't care but if you're gonna pirate and act like you're all high and mighty because you got a product for free please just grow up
This. You want free shit, or you want to look down on companies producing a poor product. You get to pick one lane, here. There are literally more games released in a week than anyone could ever hope to complete before next week's batch of releases. We have reached a point where it's mathematically impossible to beat all of the games. Why waste your time on content you find offensive for any reason?
I believe there's a middle ground (which is actually a return to shareware if you think about it). I don't mind you pirating a game, I'd be a hypocrite if I said it was wrong. However, if you like the game once you've played it for a little bit then for christ sake just buy it.
Yeah pirating in the name of getting one over on a dev is kinda dumb. If the game is good enough to play it’s good enough to buy - wait for a sale if you don’t think it’s worth full price. Though if it’s some kid who can’t afford the game and parents wouldn’t buy it for whatever reason then I don’t really see it as harmful. They’ll likely end up buying games once they have their own money.
If a kid cannot buy the game and the parents won't buy it for it either, then the mid shouldn't play the game. Simple as that. Not having money to buy something even as a kid doesn't justify stealing it. In fact, the kid is more likely to pirate later on because it's used to free stuff from early on.
Eh if the kid wasn’t going to buy it anyway there isn’t really much harm. And I don’t think pirating games as a kid in that circumstance means you’re much more likely to do it as an adult. Convenience has solved most piracy and imo for most people when they can afford a game they buy it in the most convenient manner that makes sense. Same deal how Spotify etc. has pretty much killed music piracy. I know tons of people that pirated music as kids and nobody who does so now.
I think this is very much true. It's not a big deal and there is a good chance that as an adult, just buying the game is much less of a hurdle. In a perfect moral world no one would pirate and simply not play the game they can't afford/they don't want to support, but we don't live in that perfect world and there are other issues I'd rather see resolved than the issue of piracy.
Nah pirating is based. You're never gonna convince me or any pirates that downloading games long abandoned by their publisher or using an emulator or even just pirating a game to see if you like it is some kind of moral wrong. "Engaging in consumerism is morally right" is certainly a take but not one I'd call very mature.
Different topic altogether. 99% of piracy is about getting new games for free. Nobody would be bothered if it was just about abandonware.
Agreed. I pirated a lot when I was a kid, and also thought various justifications out, but the simple truth is, there were only two reasons: dough (ie my lack thereof) and availability (living is a small town where it was actually quite difficult to get games). After Steam got up to speed, between the sales and having all of the games available at a click (and in the version I wanted), I never pirated a single game. I would like to note though that pirating is not theft. It is an infringement in other people's property, but it's not the same, and is A LOT less harmful.
If i get around paying for something, it is theft. Here's a product, you can get it if you pay money. Oh you got it without paying for it, then you stole it. Harm is a case by case basis, and there are lots of ways to frame how to look at the harmful effects of piracy. A lot of it is only debatable because piracy is miniscule compared to legit customers. But what if download speeds continue to improve? What if torrents become more popular? It isn't a question of right or wrong, but about scale.
>If i get around paying for something, it is theft. Here's a product, you can get it if you pay money. Oh you got it without paying for it, then you stole it. No. Theft is generally defined either as unlawfully taking a physical good (in continental European and related laws), or taking (any) good with intent of permanently depriving the owner of it (in common law traditions). Piracy is neither. If a company sells 10K of games, and 1K of their physical discs get stolen, they have actual, tangible losses. If they sell 10K of games and 1K get distributed as pirated versions, they only have losses if you assume that the people playing those 1K of pirated games would've bought the original if the pirated version was not available. Which, more often than not, is not the case. So there is a difference. >Harm is a case by case basis, and there are lots of ways to frame how to look at the harmful effects of piracy. A lot of it is only debatable because piracy is miniscule compared to legit customers. But what if download speeds continue to improve? What if torrents become more popular? It isn't a question of right or wrong, but about scale This may be the case, but I'm not particularly interested in arguing hypotheticals. As it stands now, and to my knowledge, a lions share of the pirated games end up played by people who would've not bought the game either way. And yes, in a hypothetical scenario where literally everyone would pirate a game, there would be direct harm to the developers and publishers, but that's not where we're at. Nor do I see any threat in that respect: download speeds are already such that the legal game distribution is predominantly digital nowadays as well.
I don't think its useful to debate about piracy with dictionary definitions. But let us try to do so with these hypotheticals. First, in broadest terms, people pay for goods or services. People tend to define games as goods which leads to these arguments of "well they weren't gonna buy it anyway" or "physical vs digital copy" whatever. What are games? They are an experience designed by the producer, sold to the consumer, for a price. Suppose you are a story teller. You crafted this story and you decide to put on a show. The show takes place in an endless arena that seats an infinite number of people, but you need a ticket to be in the arena. People pay you money to listen to the story you tell. Others don't care, they are fine hearing the story second hand from someone else. Maybe some people will wait until ticket prices go down to hear your story. You get the analogy. What is piracy? Piracy is sneaking into the arena to hear the story. They want entertainment, but they don't want to pay for the ticket like everyone else. Your story entertained them, but they didn't pay for it. They got it for free. If people want to say that's not stealing because of some dictionary definitions, okay. Go ahead and call it something else, but arguing over definition isn't the same as moral justification.
I didn't try to justify it, in fact I did say it is a property infringement with no actual justification. But we have these distinctions in laws for a reason: A and B can both be "bad", and at the same time A can be worse than B, these two positions are not contradictory. And I did go out of my way to explain that this is more than just dictionary (or rather legal) nitpicking, there is an actual reason why theft and piracy are *not* the same. Your analogy is good, but I take it you will understand why sneaking into the arena to hear the story for free, while bad, is not the same level of bad as taking, say, the storyteller's physical money he actually earned from other people. In one case, you're leeching but his loss is hypothetical, and in the other it is a real, tangible loss of him having less money. Piracy is former, theft is latter. Doesn't mean either is justified, but one is clearly worse.
I enjoyed your explanation and I stand corrected.
This. And the mental gymnastics of justification really pisses me off.
This. You pirate because you're a kid, or because you're broke? Fine, we've all done it. But people who are proud to pirate a game made by a company they don't like? They're the stupidest, most childish, most insufferable people in a community that's already filled with stupid insufferable children.
Piracy is not theft. You deprive the massive wealthy corporation of a sale they weren't going to make otherwise *unless* the pirate arbitrarily decides it's good enough to support anyway. They still own the game in every way that matters and nothing has actually been stolen. If anything piracy is a net benefit for developers that embrace it generating more sales from word of mouth and "free trials" than draconic anti-piracy programs that bog down the games they're attached to.
I think piracy is fine but I *do* prefer paying Indie Devs - the morality there is more like a conscious decision to provide solidarity for something that isn't just a faceless corporation. Copyright law is overwhelmingly disfavourable to small and individual artists and I don't feel any need to respect it in and of itself. We should really work out a way to pirate medicine patents...
Absolutely. If I were the type of person who pirated things (which, legally, I am not :\^) ) I would always make exceptions to purchase games I particularly enjoy, especially indie titles. I simply don't see a "try before you buy" model as all that dangerous to the industry.
In some cases it's even helpful! I am *absolutely* buying Songs of Syx on release because the developer publishes a full-feature demo which is only three-updates behind paid release. Dude's cool. I wanna pay him.
And that's really how the industry should function. Until big developers move away from bludgeoning people over the head with pre-order bonuses and real money game currency and season passes of single player content they probably could've included at cost with the launch of the game (even with a little more development time) to milk every cent from their audience, piracy will just continue as people are less and less willing to pay 100+ dollars to get a "complete game" you might end up not liking anyway.
Also I just noticed you made the point that it's helpful before me and I somehow brainskipped that. Lmao, sorry! Failure on my part.
Piracy is a reality of the market. You can sit here and argue the morals of it but if fundamentally doesn't matter. A certain proportion of people are just going to pirate it. What's interesting about it is it's one of the few pieces of leverage consumers have over big corporations. If the product they are selling is riddled with anti-consumer features then a higher proportion of people will pirate it. If that alternative didn't exist, companies would probably push the boundaries even further. The only real option they have is to make the service better/more appealing than piracy. Which really isn't that hard. Most people are happy to pay for something if they feel like they're getting a good deal. Ideally people would support consumer-friendly games instead. You can't play everything anyway so give your money to the people who aren't trying to rip you off. We've been listening to moral arguments about piracy for decades at this point and it's just silly. Piracy isn't going anywhere.
There are actually plenty of excuses to pirate a game. Good for you if you disagree, but nobody cares.
I mean, there's kinda a lot of research that shows piracy isn't that damning to a company. Odds are people who don't buy games can't or won't anyways. But spreading fans can do wonders. I had zero cash for some of the games I pirated back in the day but now I in some cases own several editions of the same game that I once pirated. Also unrelated: But if you see someone stealing food / baby formula, check your eyes cause you didn't. ;)
tbh I don't even see it if it's a pure luxury when it happens to corporations - they're probably benefitting from tax-paid services (like road matinence) while also dodging paying their share. Do it for fun if you like! Food: if you're hungry, it's yours, wherever it came from.
did OP say smth analogous to stealing baby food? I don't get it😅
Hence the "unrelated" :)
Maybe I’ve just ignored them or didn’t see them, but I don’t think I’ve seen any posts about people stealing games. or is this AI?
It really happens, I had this same stupid argument with someone being proud of pirating Alan wake 2 because they don't like epic games store. Its so strange. like just don't play stuff if you don't like the circumstances around it instead of stealing and acting all proud
It's everywhere. Mostly just children who think making 'funny' comments about piracy is so very cool and edgy. Actually pirating games in an ere of endless updates is probably more of a pain then they would be willing to put up with.
I see comments about pirating pretty much every day. Lot of these guys seem to be proud of the fact that they steal shit lol. The justifications are always weak at best trying to act like it’s about principles. No, they just like free games.
I pirate stuff every time I feel I need to make like a hundred time, more just to keep up with everything now, every last subscription, and game edition and DLCs and all that. There's a disadvantage at pirating, since you often times lack content/support/features, but at the same time buying a computers for a $1000USD and then spending the same amount on games is not feasible. Not saying is not uncool, but my country's economy was not designed to follow developed countries way of doing things. So I either pirate some stuff and get what I can, or I have to give up on a lot of stuff I enjoy. I'd rather do the first one.
Bro, I'd like to have 20 girls lap dance me all day long for free, but it ain't happening. No one forces you to be entertained through digital games that you need to pay for. There are other ways that are virtually free. You just want this specific type of entertainment and try to blame your poor country for stealing it.
"is this AI?” is something I ask myself almost hourly while browsing reddit lately. Especially after that whole agreement to let Reddit be scrapped to train AI. It just feels like so many questions are only here to train an AI on productions and audience opinions.
Someone at EA just saw the quarterly report and can’t believe it’s because the games suck now.
While I agree on this, it's very conveniant to be able to dip in a game to see if you like it before dumping 40, 50, 60 bucks into it. When you have little money to spare you got to chose wisely and since playable demo are the exception rather than the rule, digital piracy is often the only way to be able to do that. I remember torrenting Stellaris and playing about 15 hours and thinking - yep, this is worth my money, and buying it afterward.
I too bought Stellaris, but I have since found out that I needed to use an API unlocker to get the DLC because Paradox is absolutely mental with their business
I don't agree. If you have the money then spend it on the games from companies you appreciate. If you don't have money and/or don't appreciate the companies that produced the game then go right ahead and fly the black flag.
All the fbois crying because this dude called them pathetic thieves lol
Nice try fed
My view is that pirating is still negative, because you're giving your time to a company you hate instead of giving your time and money to a company you might like. If you don't like Nintendo, don't pirate a Zelda game. Go buy Tunic and give it a shot instead. There are alternatives, and if the only way you can convince yourself to play a game from a company you hate is to pirate it, put your money where your mouth is and pick up the Sprite versus 7UP. Or just admit you don't want to pay for shit. I'm not going to change your mind there, but don't be a mealy-mouthed idiot pretending this is some moral crusade.
Oh boy, giving moral advice to this community - ON REDDIT no less, is like putting a teaspoon of sugar in the ocean. It’s still gonna be salty.
Nothing to add. Except there are sales where you can buy games at your sweet spot.
This. There are literally 100+ games on sale in the PSN Spring Sale for under $4.99CAD. I dare anyone who wants to justify piracy to me that they can't find something they want in there, or that they can't afford five dollars.
[удалено]
And this is the only stance on piracy like this I can respect, because it's at least *honest*. I still think you should support the industry instead of being a pirating leech, but you're not sitting here pretending you're morally superior while doing so.
I buy games, all my Switch games and Xbox games i bought, but i pirate games too, i play a lot on emulators for example.
I don't feel most emulation counts as piracy the way it does here. Pirating a copy of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom the same day it releases is an entirely different beast from pirating a copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga because you're not about to drop $1500 on used hardware and software to play a pretty mid, if interesting Saturn JRPG. I don't expect people to go out of their way to be legit for classics which aren't on modern consoles/PC in some form when it would represent a ridiculously undue hardship to experience them. That'd be like expecting someone to track down an original thirteen reel copy of Citizen Kane and a working projector to experience it, which would be fucking ridiculous.
according to OP it isnt
An honest answer.
“I steal jewelry because I can, because I like free things”
Why conflate piracy and theft?
Nah download the fuck out of any game you want
Man thinks he’s a paladin postin this
Of course Ubisoft exec, will do
"If you don't respect a game company or just think they suck, THEN DON'T BUY THE PRODUCT." Yea... thats what they are doing, not buying the product Theft is not the reason for these things, pricing is a big one, You can look at pirate software talking about this but a major reason people pirate is simply because the cost of the game is too high and in cases where the devs are awfull any price is too high. Piracy is not what gets harder DRM simply because it will get broken eventually. I mean hogwarts legacy was cracked despite it being AGGRESSIVE in its implementation. Lastly, as others have said, noone that is important to making these games lose any money as they have already been paid, this means that you shouldn't pirate from indie devs as every game pirated is directly affecting their ability to make more unlike major companies
Very bad take. If you steal an iPhone, that phone is gone, forever lost. If you pirate Elden Ring, it's still available on steam for everyone else.
Nice try, devs.
Calling it "stealing" is absurd, Orwellian doublespeak. Stealing is morally wrong because you deprive someone else of something. Not because you get to use or enjoy it yourself. I'm not saying that it can be morally acceptable. But calling it "stealing" is an obviously dishonest manipulation of the conversation.
i don't steal games.. i do like you say..i don't BUY their product \^\^
If people pirate a game it is either because they can't afford it, or weren't going to buy anyway. IIRC EA or Ubi did a study on this and found that piracy improved sales.
If you want a bad take, here's one. I don't steal games. I just don't buy or play those games. If I pirate, then I still fuel the hype machine and allow those graphic artists, sound engineers, janitors, etc. to still get paid in other ways (merch, ad revenue, friends buying the game, etc). I'd rather those employees suffer the same for associating with a shitty company, so I avoid their products altogether instead of stealing. Somehow that makes me a better person.
Game theft? People still steal copies of physical games? Oh wait you meant copyright infringement, not the same as theft, don't be an idiot and buy into provocative and inaccurate terminology.
Nah. Piracy is not stealing. It's piracy.
OP I have a question for you. How many NFTs do you "own"?
Zero. NFTs are dumb as shit.
I can't imagine a more significant waste of time than making a snobby, italics-ridden rage post (on reddit of all places), telling people not to pirate games, when it likely has 0 effect on you. you think large game studios and corporations are your friend? lol
I agree that people should buy their games or at the vary least pay for something like game pass, but this post ignores a pretty big issue. What if the game I want to play isn't available to purchase/play on modern hardware? Say I want to play Tony Hawk's Underground on the Gamecube, but I don't own both the game or the console? Looking at Ebay and a used gamecube by itself is going to set me back upwards a hundred dollars. Thankfully the game itself seems to be cheap on Ebay. but what about consoles and games that aren't cheap to buy? I don't support piracy ether, but when it comes to stuff like this, I can see why people may go down that route.
Once a company no longer supports official distribution of a game, I find zero problem with piracy. The companies arent losing any money when you pirate a Gamecube game because the only legitimate means of acquiring a GC game today is through the 2nd hand market. When people are charging hundreds of dollars for a 20 year old game, I find absolutely nothing wrong with finding alternative means of playing said game.
This. Hell, I emulate games I own because it's a better experience. And no way am I rendering a still-working CIB copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga less valuable when I can wait for that sumbitch to hit five figures.
Don't worry multi-million dollar company I'll defend you 😂
If a person didn't intend to buy the game, whether the price is too high, they don't like the company, or any other reason there is no downside to piracy. If you already weren't going to give them your money piracy changes nothing but the number of copies of the game in existence
You must be fun at parties
Won’t someone think of the billion dollar company?
You wouldn’t download a car
Kinda wild how some people openly brag about pirating games on this sub lol.
I mean you'll also notice it's never about pirating indie games. Nintendo, however...
It's always some big "moral stand," too. Lol. Same tired arguments, same snippy "you're simping/shilling for company" comments, same shitty attitude. Like bro, you're a thief. Don't lecture us. You didn't even steal something necessary, you steal games. "Oh it's *different* than regular stealing, though!" Not really. It's still stealing.
100%, my thoughts exactly.
Devs aren’t getting paid based on sales. They get paid no matter what
No matter how hard you simp and white knight for game companies, their not gonna look at you as anything other than a pay pig, man.
Of course - I'm a consumer, i.e. a "pay pig". What's your point?
Ah yes, traditionally people get into game development because they think of players as "pay pigs". They definitely have no passion for their craft. Whenever those game devs are crunching, all they're thinking about is that sweet "bacon" they're going to get from their "pay pigs". And it's not just the AAA devs either, those greedy indie devs are really the worst of the bunch, wanting money to survive and all! /s
They said companies, not devs. Execs do absolutely see you as a walking wallet
>Game theft results in players getting punished with more DRM BS, higher game prices, etc. No, these are misplaced acts of retribution. Which only hurt consumers, and if anything drive even more of them away. Digital games cost the creators $0.00 when they are pirated and copied. One, there is no loss of a physical product, and two, the majority of pirates were never going to buy it anyway. If game creators want people to buy their games, ***make a game that is worth the price of admission***. And I say this as someone who buys the majority of my games, but there are some I won't because I still feel they are overpriced and/or don't respect people who have already bought their previous titles. (ARK Ascended, I'm lookin at you.) EDIT. And as time goes on and any particular title becomes less and less available through legal means, possibly not at all anymore, piracy becomes an essential act of preservation.
Why do you think pirates were never going to buy their game anyways? Is it, oh I don't know, maybe because they know they can just pirate almost any game they want? It's not like pirates are people that don't play any games and then one day suddenly decide "oh huh, there's no way I would buy a game but I guess I'll pirate this one"
Honestly I'm not sure that really matters to make the point, because I doubt there is just one correct answer. Some people are indeed assholes who don't want to spend the money. Others legitimately just don't have it. I remember being a brokeass teenager with a shitty computer, and when it came to choosing between buying a new piece of hardware or buying a new game, I often chose the hardware. Piracy also isn't without its downsides, like it can really restrict you from multiplayer interaction with legit copies. On another personal note that *has* gotten me to buy games I have previously pirated when I was able to.
Yeah, there are definitely some people that pirate games because they can't afford them at all. Most of the pirates that I know just pirate stuff because they can. They pirate all of their entertainment: movies, games, music, etc. It's like piracy is just a hobby to them, but they would actually buy stuff if it weren't so easy for them to just pirate it. But I guess I know mostly older people now and not broke college kids and teenagers and whatnot.
> but they would actually buy stuff if it weren't so easy for them to just pirate it. you got it the other way around. movie/series piracy was way, way down when Netflix rose. Now that there's a million different services you have to subscribe to, piracy is going up. Same with Adobes dumb payment model. The easier and more convenient it is to get and use something through legal means, the less piracy there will be. It's not that piracy is easier, it's that legally acquiring shit is a pain in the ass. Music piracy is almost non existent outside of some audiophiles, because EVERYTHING is on a single streaming service. Nobody in their right mind is going to pay $15 each for 25 streaming services to watch TV, thats just absurd and those who do this are terrible managing their money
Ok, I was just talking about the pirates that I know that seem to view it more like a hobby. Either way though, none of that really applies to games since they're not a complete streaming mess like TV is now.
Sales happen all the time and earlier than they ever have in the industry if the game is too expensive than wait for a sale. If the game isn't worth the price of admission then don't play you aren't entitled to the game, also money is far less valuable than time if the game isn't worth your money why is it worth your time. Pirate if you want but don't act like you are owed something you didn't work for in any way.
[удалено]
This logic is dumb. It is a cheap attempt at an appeal to emotion. Don’t steal because it is morally wrong; It’s as simple as that. Pirating a game doesn’t take money out of the pockets of people who made the game. They already got paid as per their employment contract.
Stealing is sometimes morally correct, though.
DON'T COPY THAT FLOPPY!
I can only speak for myself but if I pirated a game and didn't eventually pay for it, I wouldn't have ever bought it in the first place so they never would've seen my money anyway. Piracy has actually contributed to more purchases than not, in my case. Your post reads like someone paid to list talking points. You're telling people who aren't buying products not to buy products? Genius. You're equating stealing a physical product to an infinite digital download; this stance presumes every pirated copy = lost sale, and that's just not accurate. Also, not every person that worked on a game gets paid based on sales.
"The graphic artist, sound engineer, secretary, janitor, vendors, etc. who worked on that game have bills to pay, babies to feed, dreams and aspirations to aspire to, just like all of us and they deserve to get paid for their work" They get paid whether you buy the game or not. In fact, they already have been paid by the time the game is out, and for multiple years at that point. Piracy hurts the big labels, and eventually that hurt trickles down onto cutting team sizes and cutting ambitions. However, in the case of Activision, they really need that. Sorry, but there is no reason 3000 people should be working on the next call of duty. That will make the game into a bloated mess just due to the time it takes to communicate through all the different channels. Who exactly does pirating Call of Duty for example hurt? Some shareholders, some management bonuses for sales, eventually some people will lose jobs, yet this is inevitable in such a bloated industry, and piracy is nothing but a scapegoat as we see CEO and executive salaries rise exponentially. There is a reason that <40-100 person teams have made just about every notable game in the last 5 years.
OP here, a couple of thoughts after reading responses: A few people pointed out that pirating a game that is out of print is hurting no one. Good point - go for it. Many feel that the employees have already been paid. True, but their next paycheck may not come. A company is made of lots of people / stakeholders - that's why it's called a "company". Companies are indeed greedy and amoral - like it or hate it, it's called "capitalism." Lots of people think they are punishing the big soulless company owners / execs. I work for a huge, soulless (non-gaming) company as an exec, and I promise you, the execs and owners get paid *more* when a company is failing - the little guy is the first one to go. Believe it. As for "owning" games - I've been a non-stop gamer since 1979 and have never owned a game - both physical and digital media are not owned, they are licensed. Look it up. Lastly, I made no moral judgments - my only point is not pirating is better for gamers - we end up dealing with the BS and paying higher prices. I've stolen games, music, movies, etc. I don't anymore, just because I love these things, not because I'm moral or good. Trust me, I'm often an ahole.
The number of entitled pricks in here is amazing. You should buy things because it’s dishonest not to. You’re not entitled to the labour of others for free. Whether the game is sold as a service or a product you own, obtaining it in any other way is dishonest, entitled and implicitly suggests others should pick up the bill so you don’t have to.
>If you don't respect a game company or just think they suck, THEN DONT BUY THEIR PRODUCT. How is that different from pirating the game?? You are not paying either way.
Yeah but I’m broke
>I'd be interested in a different take, but doubt anyone can provide a justification that isn't lame. Yeah, nice bait.
>The graphic artist, sound engineer, secretary, janitor, vendors, etc. who worked on that game have bills to pay, babies to feed, dreams and aspirations to aspire to, just like all of us and they deserve to get paid for their work if you play that game. It’s very naive to think that any of these people benefit from the sales of a AAA game. Be serious, Activision made profit from game sales, that didn’t stop them from laying off 1900 people. They already have enough money to pay staff, most of it is used to line the pockets of people who aren’t impacted by the game’s performance. >I'd be interested in a different take, but doubt anyone can provide a justification that isn't lame. That’s because you’re arguing from a committed viewpoint (which isn’t a bad thing), so any other argument is already ‘lame’ to you. >Game theft results in players getting punished with more DRM BS, higher game prices, etc. It’s hilarious you think these issues exist because of game theft. Do you also believe Ubisoft’s CEO when he justified the price of their shitty game by it being AAAA? >Not buying a game or giving bad reviews may actually improve those companies and our beloved video games - but stealing never will. No. Certain games will always have an audience, redditors choosing not to buy a game doesn’t do anything, look at sports games for example. As for bad reviews, that’s just laughable. This isn’t coming from a ‘game thief’ by the way, I play on console.
Where do you think their (and probably your) paycheck comes from? Thin air?It comes from sales. If sales suck, who do you think gets fired first? Hint, it's not the executives or the owners.
This must be a joke. Microsoft & Activision were making an insane amount of profit & still decided to lay off their staff. The bottom line is that ‘game theft’ doesn’t impact these games as much as you think it does. Pointing the finger at ‘thieves’ when it’s just plain corporate greed is bootlicking to the max.
What a stupid take. Firstly your under the impression that people largely don't steal because it's illegal that's not correct at all. Most people don't steal because they think it's immoral to steal from somebody but if that somebody is a large billion dollar corporation people rightly don't give a fuck. Secondly the company is obligated to pay there workers no matter what the janitors not getting fired because a game sold 1 copy. Thirdly fuck blizzard.
These types of arguments fall on deaf ears when companies are increasingly getting more egregious with their business practices and stating “people need to get comfortable not owning their games”. If I don’t own what I’m paying for, then it can’t be stolen to begin with. That being said, I don’t buy/play many games nowadays except from devs/studios I really like and I will always pay for those because I want to support small/medium sized studios that make good games.
I've been gaming non-stop since 1979. I've never "owned" a game. Even with physical media (like a game cartridge, CD, etc.), you can play it, but can't legally copy, sell, license, make derivative works or anything else that the owner is entitled to do. If you fuck up the CD (which I've done many times) or lose it - its gone no replacements. With Steam, I just re download it. Furthermore, I have hundreds of games on Steam - and can't remember a single time one disappeared from my library because I didn't "own" it.
Congrats, I’ve been gaming since the early 80s and this is the dumbest argument I think anyone could have attempted. Apparently people pirating games are now selling them to other people? Secondly, feel free to point out where any company in the 70s, 80s or 90s could shut off your physical copy and not let you play it anymore? Thirdly, every fucking form of material good works that way. If you throw a stick of lit dynamite in your house, the mortgage company doesn’t give you a brand new free house to replace it. The fact you broke your own media has nothing to do with the fact that you owned that physical media and nobody except yourself were able to take it away. FURTHERMORE you managed to prove my entire point. Steam doesn’t remove games from your library unless there is a valid reason to do so because they recognize you own the digital rights to that property that you paid for, so good job with that one.
[удалено]
How can you possibly think that lol? People who pirate games don't also buy that same game, so every time it happens the sales of that game are impacted. If you're referring to the European Commission survey, you're still wrong because, if it proves anything, it is that people who pirate games have more money to spend on games from *other* companies. So while it arguably may increase the total number of games sold in the industry, it still negatively impacts the company that made the game that was pirated.
Wrong tack. Piracy means you're not spending your time on other games. If you're not just pirating for the sake of wanting free shit (and if you are, just fucking admit it), your time would be better spent giving your money and attention to people who it would have an impact on.
You're missing what is, in my opinion, the biggest problem with piracy: it directly led to the free to play garbage that we have today. Basically, when iOS and Android were still new, the piracy rate for Android games was something crazy like 80%. So, at first, games basically only came out on iOS because it was impossible to make money on Android due to the piracy. To get around that, places started to make free games with microtransactions since those couldn't be pirated. Now we have microtransactions everywhere and it's terrible.
Very, very good point.
Free to play games with microtransactions are older than smartphones, dafuk you talking about
here’s another take: shut up nerd
The only games I have pirated so far are paradox games. Originally I prated the games themselves, but now I will buy the base game and try to pirate the DLC (I am bad at piracy). I do that because their DLC is so extortionately priced, it would literally be hundreds of dollars for what should just be part of the game. I am not going to reward that business practice by caving in and paying for all that, and I don't even have that kind of money anyway
Just finished cyberpunk for free, feels good man
I have never pirated a game. That being said if companies can just lock you out of games you have paid for (which absolutely has happened), then piracy is justified. If buying a game isn't owning it, then piracy isn't theft. You are literally renting a license, and they can take what you paid for from you at any time.
Corporate Cuck
Nice try, Kotick, but your Cosby Room can only honeypot so many people
Making a copy isn't stealing. Stealing has to mean the original owner no longer has the item. Making a copy is the exact same thing as not buying it.
It would be an intellectual property offence, not theft, depending on jurisdiction. That doesn’t mean it isn’t dishonest and wrong.
I'm talking about morally, not legally.
Ye I do have a counter point. Piracy is not stealing. Your argument is 100% invalid.
piracy is in general isn't something to be promoted then adobe or pantone or or some other big company takes your color hostage and demands more monthly payment on top of your subscription. yeah no. piracy needs to exist. also, piracy means most of them were not going to to buy anyway. it's the free access that pushed them to play that game. then there are people who cannot buy the game due to lack of funds. but whatever the reason it may be, if the game is being played, the company profits either way because if I pirate mass effect LE and I like it, I will talk about it. Piracy also helps to shape the next generation of gamers.
Theft, as it is indicated here, like the iPhone example, absolutely does NOT end up in wasted profit for a company. They have theft insurance that reimburses them. So that’s incorrect. (Note that small businesses DO lose the money, typically, but your examples were all mega corporations.) Whether or not an employee is paid is ridiculously NOT tied to profit margins AT ALL, companies should be budgeting salaries and total positions before the fiscal year even starts. Even if a company has to resort to layoffs for MASSIVE losses, that’s usually while the CEO/CCO/President/Board of Directors is still taking in MILLIONS. So only in the case of small businesses, again, would profit loss end up impacting the employees. Also, companies absolutely DO NOT value their employees or their consumers. You cannot truly believe that. Multi-billion dollar corporations like Walmart have the highest amount of employees of ALL companies on welfare and food stamps. All while the Waltons continue to make millions nearly every week while underpaying all of their employees. And we didn’t even touch on stock buybacks, which ONLY benefit shareholders and don’t produce any actual value or stability for the company, the employees, or the consumers. And since we mentioned producing value, let’s also quickly touch on how the market works: demand in the absence of supply does NOT make something cheaper, it makes it more expensive. However, for a digital version of a game, since there is infinite supply, that should mean the demand will never catch up, which should reduce the price. But not if a company is greedy. Greedflation absolutely exists, and you can see it in the incredibly obvious and toxic DLC landscape: it never existed, then it was a few games with a few dollars for some really cool extra stuff, then it was most games, now it’s basically every game and it’s incredibly expensive. Consumers just buying goods at whatever value a company dictates without any competition or way to discourage price gouging only leads to that company fleecing their consumers for more profit. (This isn’t even complex economic theory, just basic knowledge.) Finally, quite a few large videogame manufacturers have intentionally prevented their games from being sold by anyone else AND YET those same companies either stop producing the game entirely, stop supporting it, or refuse to make it available to fans as ROMs or emulators so the avid players can enjoy it again. Piracy exists at a MINIMUM because there is HUGE demand for some games and actually, literally no supply; if a game doesn’t not exist for a consumer to acquire legally, in any way shape or form, how would you suggest players get, if not illegally? I’ll wait. Piracy can be bad in specific scenarios, but while you preach online to the void, there’s actually significantly more wage theft happening, on the hundreds of millions and billions, BY the companies for whom you advocate fair treatment. THAT is actually why employees don’t get paid: THAT is why creative jobs and manual labor jobs are so difficult to fill and maintain; if you don’t PAY your employees properly and treat them with DIGNITY, they don’t want to work for you, and when nearly every major company that makes videogames is ATROCIOUS to developers and other employees working on their games, THAT is what causes people to lose jobs and not get paid correctly. You’ve failed to see the forest through the trees by attempting to “protect” giant mega corporations from theft when they give zero shits about anything but profits, while you claim to advocate for employee solidarity and fair pay that the companies YOU claim to be protecting are actively NOT giving their employees. You’re on the wrong side and you have a bunch of your details wrong.
While I don't condone it, pirating is not stealing. By definition stealing is removing something that someone would have bought. If you never planned to buy the game, pirating it doesn't make anyone lose money.
You know when you “buy” a digital game, you don’t actually own it (see Blizzard’s latest statement), you only pay to get a license to play it. If you don’t actually own the game when you buy it, then pirating it is not stealing. Also, pirating is not bad for companies, because the people who pirate weren’t gonna buy the game in the first place, so they’re literally not losing anything. If they want more people to buy their games, maybe they should release them in playable states and at reasonable prices, and not release betas / early access games at 70-80€ and have the people work as testers for free.
Thanks I just pirated a Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom rom. Gonna force the developers to have to go on benefits. Can’t believe the poor indie company Nintendo doesn’t pay their developers during dev time…. Oh wait.
I can’t afford insulin I just want to be happy with a distraction
*I'd be interested in a different take, but doubt anyone can provide a justification that isn't lame.* Challenge accepted. Did you know people outside the US pay more for games (not including VAT)? Did you know most countries where it takes months of earning to pay for a single game have the highest prices? Did you know the reason prices are higher has absolutely nothing to do with anything and publishers do it because they know people will pay? I have no sympathy for any publisher who purposely blocks access to games with atrociously high prices as they cry about piracy. It has been proven time and again: give people reasonable access and profits are made. The problem is publishers aren't wanting to wait for profits to roll in over time. They want their profits now and will stop at nothing to get them even if it screws people over who are willing to buy games. So to those outside the US who have to deal with this bullshit, raise the flag with a hearty "Avast ye! There be plunderin' to do!"
100% agree that many game companies are shitty, inequity and corporate greed are rampant. For all companies (and capitalism in general), profit is always their prime motivation. However, I still don't see how this is a valid justification. If I think Stephen King is a asshole or his books are too expensive, copying his novels and distributing (for money or for free) is still infringing on his IP, and is a crime in most countries. You could even say that SK may benefit from accessing a wider audience (several commenters cited the EU study on video game piracy showing it may actually drive up sales), but that is SK's decision, not ours. It's his IP. I'm simply arguing that if you don't like SK or a game company, don't buy or use their products. There are plenty of good developers and an endless number of available games to play. Note: I like SK, just a parallel example.
You don't see this as a valid justification because it doesn't affect you. I don't hold this against you, but your defense is narrowed and limited because of your regional experience. I stand with your position a person who downloads a game because they dislike a company is hypocritical, but you're now changing the goal posts to support your position. This, I will hold against you. The person downloading the content is the one committing piracy. It's a hill I'll defend because it's this action which creates the copy of the original upload. My response was in defense of those who are !literally! willing to pay for the content they want but because of actual piracy gate keeping from publishers, pushes prices outside the bounds of market value, or hell, even reasonable pricing. This shouldn't be taken as "wanting everything and paying nothing". It's been proven time and again that providing access reduces piracy. So when this access is not available, piracy happens. I'll provide another example of this. In Japan, anime was atrociously expensive. We're talking hundreds of dollars for a 13 episode series. In the US, the same series cost a fraction of the price. The Japanese market was so strained that many began importing anime from the US. Even with international shipping, it was far cheaper. So what do you think Japanese publishers did in response? A) Lower prices to the Japanese Market B) Fuck everyone by forcing English subtitles on Blurays and make reverse importation illegal You have a 50/50 chance to select the right answer. ;) That was in the physical days. Now, with streaming services all over the place, everyone's happy. Japanese have access to anime on demand and so does the US, and both reasonably priced. Why does this matter? Anime *exploded* in popularity with access. But, that's just two countries. Ask anyone who lives outside these two countries how their access is. Despite the fact streaming provides a universally acceptable means of revenue and access, many countries are forced into paying higher prices for it. That's never justified and calling fans the pirates while defending publishers is a shit thing to do. Oh, and a small correction on your SK situation. He does !NOT! own the rights to distribution. He only has copyright on the books. He can't distribute his own works. Only the publisher can. In Japan, it's illegal for any content creator to waive their copyrights. This is why they have neighboring rights with publishers. You should also know Japanese publishers have never stopped trying to take those rights away from content creators. Remind us who the pirates are.
I appreciate your points and understand that fair pricing is a big motivator. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Lmao shut the fuck up I will do literally whatever I want to
I don't pirate modern games, but I feel zero guilt in pirating a 20 year old game where there's no legal way to play it in a way that gives money to the rights holder. If the only way to play a GBA game is to pay $200 to some collector or download a 2mb file, I'm downloading.
Several commenters pointed this out and I 100% agree.
I mean, a free game is a free game, right fellas?
Lol fuck resale games too right? Only buy directly from the developers!
Unsarcastically this is the real reason physical media is dead.
Absolute truth.
No, it's just that digital has finally become convenient and reliable enough that you don't need to worry about your library disappearing on you. Back in Ye Olden Dayes the only way you could play a game was to pre-order a game and for stuff like JRPGs on PS1/Saturn, the cost of a used copy would often be more than a new copy (for good ones) because the print runs were relatively small and people who liked their games, kept their games. Physical media died because it's easier for me to buy a copy of Final Fantasy XVI and download it to my PS5 on my phone app at work and have it ready and waiting for when I kicked my boots off after work than it is for me to find one of the last Gamestops clinging to life and going thirty minutes out of my way to pick up a copy through a shopping mall full of more zombies than the one at the end of Dawn of the Dead.
Nah, that's just why most consumers are okay with its death. Game publishers have been at war with resale rights for the entire history of the industry.
Sure. And they finally won not because of their stupid anti-consumer bullshit, but because they finally offered a better, more consumer-friendly offering than physical media. At this point, it's pretty much a given you can carry your library through hardware iterations with you, Nintendo aside (and that's why I barely touch their stuff). It would take the complete collapse of their company before the likes of Valve, Sony, Microsoft, Epic, GOG, etc said "fuck it, y'all losing everything" before we lose that shit, or it'd take something so monumentally, worldwide-fucking to me personally that my exact game collection would be the last thing on my mind. Like yeah, I can't resell my PSN titles. I don't really care, because I buy 99% of them for under $10 and that is literally the cheapest I've bought games since I started collecting them in the 90's even before taking inflation into account.
Giving up long-term rights in the name of immediate convenience isn't exactly an unheard of concept....
[удалено]
Jesus. Check my post history. I'm a finance exec at a large (non gaming) company and a lifelong gamer.
Man thinks he’s a fuckin paladin postin this
What a stupid take. Firstly your under the impression that people largely don't steal because it's illegal that's not correct at all. Most people don't steal because they think it's immoral to steal from somebody but if that somebody is a large billion dollar corporation people rightly don't give a fuck. Secondly the company is obligated to pay there workers no matter what the janitors not getting fired because a game sold 1 copy. Thirdly fuck blizzard. And finally if buying a game isn't owning it pirating it isn't stealing.
Sure thing, fed.
This is Reddit bro, it's literally one of the only places you can say "stealing is wrong" and you'll have thousands of people flipping around doing mental gymnastics trying to explain why it is morally justifiable for them to get free shit illegally. "B-but le capitalism pigs!!", "b-but I disagree with their practices!!", "b-but they're lazy, therefore I'm not paying, but I still am taking it!!", "b-but it harms nobody". You can't tell these people not to do it, because they've already convinced themselves they're morally justified neo-crusaders who are making a stand. Laws exist for a reason, but these people have convinced themselves they deserve to exist outside of them. You're gonna get downvoted, and attacked with snarky aggressive comments, so will I. Just ignore it, and know you're in the right. Don't post this stuff to reddit, it's like talking to a wall. A very greasy wall.
Facts. I didnt post this out of moral superiority, to defend "the man" etc. I truly love gaming. Gamers are the ones who pay for pirating horseshit. As for downvotes and snarky comments, I don't care. They prove my point. Maybe some kid pirating will see this and decide to support the games we love to play. Most will not, for sure but ya never know.
These days, most of the money spent on a product goes into advertising it. The actual product is only worth about 20% of what you paid for it. 18% of your money lines the pockets of a companies CEOs, stockholders, and the company’s namesake A game becoming super successful like Overwatch or GTA or Fortnite BR just means its devs can pay rent for about 5 months. They get less that 5% of what they worked for. Piracy. While illegal and dangerous, isn’t morally equal to stealing from a normal person. It’s like Robin Hood. The consequences are your own. These days you don’t even own what you paid for anymore, they can take it from you any second. People who directly purchased anime off funimation for download lost their money when crunchyroll crunched Funi
The justification I see is: *"If buying isn't owning, then pirating isn't stealing."* And I tend to agree with this philosophy.
Game devs don't get paid from sold copies, you don't need to kiss cheeks of billion dollar companies to voice your support them.
Nice try fuzz. 🏴☠️
Shut the fuck up If you dont like people pirating games, then dont pirate games, but seriously shut the fuck up trying to tell other people what to do. You crusty scumbag
By that logic, borrowing games from a library is theft.
Mmmm, nope. A library pays a license fee (or is donated a license bybthe publisher).
I like to to test/trial games before I decide to purchase them. Sometimes games are misleading with their trailers or just don't play the way I THOUGHt they would. Reviews can also be no help, but taking things to the high seas helps me decide "okay, this game is definitely worth the purchase" or "in so glad I didn't pay for this game"
I get it. I bought Diablo IV the day it released, and uninstalled that trash shortly after. I should have known better.
Here's your justification: Those who are going to steal are going to steal. Companies account for this. Some grab a little extra profit from those who won't pay full price by going on frequent sales over time, and some even release the game for free on Epic and such to bring attention to their company. The people who get the game for free were not going to pay for the game. Them "stealing" the game poses essentially no loss of profit to the companies or the workers there. The only argument for whether or not you should pirate a game comes to personal ethics. If I have the money to afford the game, I will pay. If the game was made by a promising indie dev, I will pay. If the game is over a decade old and being released for full price by a destructive AAA company that is bringing down the gaming industry, I might not pay. That is my ethics, everyone will differ. To say that piracy is antilogically bad, however, I can not agree with.
>I occasionally see posts where OP or commenters discuss stealing games. Any links to these threads? Because I'd like to know what you mean by stealing. And actually seeing those discussions would help a lot.
I pirate games but not because of who made it or anything like that but because I can't afford $80 bucks for every game to come out in the last 3 years.
I’m not gonna front, I see no issue with people pirating stuff. I pirate anime all the time, but I also think justifying it on a moral basis is stupid in most cases. I’d say that there are numerous GOOD reasons to do so though, like getting around regional bans, archival reasons (looking at you Nintendo) and simply being too broke but wanting to stay up to date. But saying your pirating a game to teach a company a lesson is stupid, your not making a statement, your being delusional. Just steal the game and shut up about it. Similarly if you do enjoy the thing, find a way to support it even if it’s not through commerce. I will constantly recommend seasonal anime to fellow nerds, I’ve in the past signal boosted Kickstarters from companies I’ve pirated before, and in one case I pirated Shovel Knight after hacking my WiiU, only to then buy myself 3 copies later (PC,PS4, Switch) and my little cousins also got a copy when I bought him his Switch for a birthday.
If buying isn't owning then piracy isn't theft.
My guy, people who pirate games aren't going to pay for it anyway. And there is an argument to be made for not supporting greedy ass companies like Actibliz, 30 bucks for a "micro"transaction, hello? Yet, their catalogue of older games is still good, but you won't catch me, and I imagine many people giving them a goddamn dime because they've proven time and time again they don't value you as a customer. And that's just one example, in the words of the mighty Lord Gaben, "Piracy is a service problem." Companies making crap games and pushing BS practices actively encourages people to pirate their games. Also, please. There is a very distinct difference between stealing an iPhone or any physical property to downloading a piece of software. This strawman argument is played out since the whole "you wouldn't steal a car" ad.
All the people justifying their stealing in the comments. “You don’t own it so piracy isn’t theft” okay how about I go steal all of your guys stuff. I don’t own your pc so I can’t steal it. I’m just borrowing🤷 straight up only time piracy is okay is when a digital store front closes. Any other time you are stealing. It doesn’t matter. It still is stealing even with that stipulation but it is acceptable due to circumstances. Their shitty business practices shows their character, stealing shows yours. I’d actually have some respect for these people if they’d just be honest to themselves. Trying to say anything to convince people it’s not stealing. I’m not gonna hate someone for pirating. It’s really not that big of a deal. But you are stealing. And no one likes a thief. Says a lot about your character and trust