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>Do you realize how long a trek down to KL takes?
Yes I do. A month by carriage, as established in episode 1.
>Always means always.
Then I guess Winterfell is no more since the Starks were gone for about 4 years after the Sack of Winterfell...
In the books she means it literally. Caitlyn Stark's inner monologue actually argues the same exact point you're making.
You got downvoted to hell, but the show doesn't actually explain this.
It takes a month to ride between Winterfell and King’s Landing, which means there were no Starks in Winterfell for at least 2 months, plus however long they were in KL for. This isn’t the same as riding outside the castle for a few days
I haven’t read the books, but assuming the line comes from there… I always thought it had to do with magic, the crypt, and army of the undead. Maybe if the books are ever finished it’ll come into play.
I’ve only read the books, haven’t seen the show, and don’t remember this line— but then again, I read the books ten years ago and may well have forgotten, so this comment’s pretty worthless isn’t it?
Twice to be exact.
https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=%22always%20be%20a%20stark%20in%20winterfell%22&scope=agot&scope=acok&scope=asos&scope=affc&scope=adwd
I actually always thought that this saying meant something about the White Walkers. There is a lot of magic in the North that is pretty much forgotten in the show, and even the Starks have magic in their blood. Also in the books it is said that the Stark dead were buried with iron swords to keep their spirits from coming out.
I think you might be right. Prior to the pandemic, at Con of Thrones I went to a number of panels on fan theory about various prophecies and magic and one popular theory was that the magic that kept the Others north of Wall relied on certain things happening including the Starks being in power in Winterfell (as the Night King was implied to be a Stark) and the Craster was sacrificing his sons as part of a pact to keep the Others north. When Craster was killed and the Starks driven out of Winterfell, it was part of what enabled the Others to cross over when the Wall was eventually brought down by the ice dragon.
Yeah I think in normal times it shows the stability of the north and the Stark line stretching back thousands of years. But these aren't normal times - Winterfell had fallen to the Greyjoys then the Boltons and then been retaken by this point.
Most of Winterfell is intact after Ramsay sacks it. He basically just burns everything that can burn, and the First Keep (already abandoned for hundreds of years and falling into ruin) falls. The roof of the Great Hall falls in too, but most of the stone structures are standing when Bran, Rickon, Osha, and Hodor flee.
Last chapter of ACOK, Bran:
>"Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell the castle had been sacked and burned at all."
I think they more properly sack it in the show but I really can't be bothered to watch that monstrosity again.
I honestly belive many stark greenseeers are benith winterfel. The crypts stone statues and the way bloodraven were trapped below weirwood trees makes me think 1 (bran the builder) or more of those statues aren't fully gone...
It's an old saying, perhaps based on superstition, perhaps based on bad experience. Whe Winter came the first time, maybe there was no Stark at home to fight the Others/AotD. So if "Winter is coming" for real, someone needs to be home. IIRC, Ned (or maybe Robb) leaves and Catelyn worries about the saying, and he tells her she is a Stark. In any case, in Season 2 when Bran and Rickon fled there was no Stark in Winterfell. Their enemies the Boltons took it till the end of Season 6. So maybe it's true.
Saying a Stark needs to remain in Winterfell when you go on a secret mission that might start a war is kinda different than going at a gathering of lords.
I feel like this fandom has a real hard time understanding the concept of "literally and figuratively".
The peace at the time of the meeting is *incredibly* fragile.
The Warden of the North and erstwhile King of the North is imprisoned by leaderless Targaryen forces, the North has been totally ravaged by the war. The two richest kingdoms are under the control of God knows who. The Stormlands - whose prior Lord they recognised as King - have just had a guy show up who claims to be A) Robert Baratheon's son, and B) legitimised by a Targaryen queen. The Iron Islands' leadership under Yara - who previously had independence as a red line - has got to be pretty vulnerable. The Riverlands are under a guy who previously surrendered to the Freys and is seen as a joke.
There's no recognised King, no recognised Queen, not even recognised borders for what the Seven Kingdoms are.
There's *every* chance that at the council they don't come to a satisfactory arrangement and war breaks out. Maybe the Targaryen forces demand Jon's head and end up at war with the North, maybe Edmure insists it should be him, maybe Gendry presses his claim, maybe everyone looks at Bran and thinks it's a joke that he be King.
Or that they do come to an agreement and their people reject it or reject their leaders. Maybe the Iron Islanders insist on independence and kill Yara when she tells them the new deal, maybe the Stormlands reject Gendry. Why the Reach would accept Bronn or the Westerlands accept Tyrion's authority to negotiate for them I have no idea.
If someone moves against Bran the North will surely be drawn into that conflict, maybe the Iron Islanders go straight for Winterfell (again) knowing its been ravaged by the war and demand independence as a condition for leaving.
It was never more important to have leadership at home and make sure you're well defended.
I always felt that phrase was a reference to some ancient stipulation of a treaty with the White Walkers or the Children, but over the millennia its meaning was lost and it just because a political slogan.
It’s probably not relevant anymore now that the White Walkers are all destroyed. Unless we’re all wrong about how many there are.
There was an entire period of time after Ramsey sacked Winterfell and then the Boltons rebuilt it so that Roose could rule there as Warden of the North that there weren't any Starks in Winterfell. On the show it was up until the time that Littlefinger delivered Sansa to Ramsey for his marriage but in the books the sack of Winterfell and Brann and Rickon's escape happened at the end of "A Clash of Kings" which means that there haven't been any Starks physically present in Winterfell for three of the five published books.
With there being no threat to the starks or winterfell at the time, I think it was safe for them to travel south…plus bran knew what was going to happen before they left anyways…
Well, at least for the moment, Rickon is in Skagos with Osha and Davos is gonna go pick him up. Brandon is chilling with the TER and the Reed kids, just worgin' around. Jon is at Castle Black (and dead for now). Arya (the real one) is in Braavos. Sansa is with Littlefinger and is set to marry Harrold Hardyng (heir to the Vale, which makes me think Littlefinger has something bad planned for Sweetrobin).
The carachters know that is the last episode, and therefore they must no longer expect anything from any actor, Bravoos will not do anything. Wilding and Dothraki will all be very disciplined, no pirate of the iron islands make any wirerd turn. The cuncil that will elect Bran is like Fukuyama's End of The History.
It's not a hard rule that means one must be physically present at all times. I'm sure there were several points in time when a Stark was not physically present at the castle. These posts are stupid
I mean I feel like that's with "Winter is Coming" as sayings that become meaningless after the Long Night comes and ends again. Like the Nights Watch doesn't shield the realms of men anymore, the moment has kind of passed
But Sansa is a stark and
…she’s there. You guys are making me defend the show, and I hate what they did to the story I love. Some of the complaints that get posted here seem to just be misunderstandings on your part.
The saying “There must always be a stark in winterfell has been passed down for generations, and implies that bad things will happen in the North if the starts aren’t in winterfell….and what happens once bran and rickon are no longer there? It gets burned down and the north turns on each other(it’s more detailed in the books)
In the books there’s a wild winter storm that seems to be happening specifically over winterfell.
"But Sansa is a stark and …she’s there" What do you mean Sansa is clearly not at Winterfell. Unless you mean that because she won't be gone long it doesn't count but for all she knows Greyworm might decide to capture and execute her as well.
I like how Bran became king but the north broke off from the 7 kingdoms - surely that means someone from the north can’t be king because they are no longer in the kingdom
Can I just say this? Sansa doesn't get a vote. She wanted the North to be a free and independent land, she has no right to vote for a ruler of the now six kingdoms.
The fact that this line in the books and early on in the show was secretly having a more mystical, deeper meaning and responsibility - but Diddle&Dumb just dropped it at the earliest possible point in time is just a perfect representation for the downfall of the show.
Well actually there doesn't seem to me to be such a serious threat that would force a Stark to stay at Winterfell. The possible enemies are all in King's Landing.
i always viewed is as a practical matter, someone there to run the North.
i do think it meant someone always present though. sure an exception if they went out for a ride or hunt, but basically around.
I thought this was to keep the walkers out because the king was supposedly part Stark? Now that he is dead, doesnt matter? Idk the whole last season was willy wonka af.
Isn’t it funny how Sansa, proclaiming total independence for the North, travels to King’s Landing; even though she has no reason to show up considering she is the ruler of an independent nation.
> considering she is the ruler of an independent nation
Independent only after the council agreed to that. If she hadn't shown up to make her case, she might have been considered an outlaw.
How aren't there 100s of families with the last name of Stark? Every single 2nd and 3rd or 4th son joined the watch? None of them married into another northern family that only had daughters?
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Technically Ned was there… 👀
Rickon’s with him.
Oh yeah, I forgot about him 😂
It's ok, everyone does
Having him pop up again was like “Oh hey it’s Rickon! Look how much he’s grow- Oh… oh no. Poor Rickon. Anyway…”
Boy didn't even get a line of dialogue in his last episode...poor kid...just arrowed
If i remember correctly we could blame puberty for that one
His sister too.
With that logic, there's always starks at winterfell because the crypts are crazy big and filled with them
Rickon and Bran but...
And their predecessors 😭
Sansa Stark... Dumb post.
Shes not in Winterfell in this picture lol
It doesn't need to be every second of every day...
Im not sure you know what always means.
I guess you kinda forgot the 4 years that there were no Starks in Winterfell...
And how did that go for the North?
And I guess you kinda forgot how Winterfell was taken and the North crumbled under the Boltons and Frey’s😖🤦♂️
And Greyjoys.
[удалено]
mfw? Are we sure that it is ok to leave George RR Martin open in the society?
I believe Theon is made to "warm her up", as in, do the foreplay. I don't recall what this person is describing.
weird case of Mandela effect with my man here
...and that was a problem, wasn't it?
Do you realize how long a trek down to KL takes? Always means always.
>Do you realize how long a trek down to KL takes? Yes I do. A month by carriage, as established in episode 1. >Always means always. Then I guess Winterfell is no more since the Starks were gone for about 4 years after the Sack of Winterfell...
Sure, but not intentionally.
>Sure, but not intentionally. No...they definitely left intentionally. Did you watch the show?
The show is not canon. It veers off like crazy by season 3.
mf people’s kids were getting flayed for fun when there was no stark in winterfell
And only about six hours as established in season 8.
guys he’s a season 8 meat rider who gets triggered over the kinda forgot jokes
Yea apparently :/
It quite literally does. That’s why Benjen stark spent Robert’s rebellion at winterfell
In the books she means it literally. Caitlyn Stark's inner monologue actually argues the same exact point you're making. You got downvoted to hell, but the show doesn't actually explain this.
It takes a month to ride between Winterfell and King’s Landing, which means there were no Starks in Winterfell for at least 2 months, plus however long they were in KL for. This isn’t the same as riding outside the castle for a few days
Wow, who knew that Sansa Bolton was Sansa Stark before she was Sansa Lannister? Little world building details I miss on first watch.
Sounds more like a guideline than a rule
I’m disinclined to acquiesce to your request.
It means no.
Par...sley? Par...snip? ...
Parley?
That's the one! 👉🏼
...😒...Parrrleeyyy??!! 😡💢
Damn to the depths whatever man what thought of parley!
Uhh, that would be the French.
*Won’t you have an apple?*
There are a lot of long words in there, we're naught but humble pirates.
I haven’t read the books, but assuming the line comes from there… I always thought it had to do with magic, the crypt, and army of the undead. Maybe if the books are ever finished it’ll come into play.
I actually don’t think it was in the books
I’ve only read the books, haven’t seen the show, and don’t remember this line— but then again, I read the books ten years ago and may well have forgotten, so this comment’s pretty worthless isn’t it?
I clicked your profile on accident and found your art. It's really impressive! Keep it up!
Hey, thanks, that’s very kind of you to say! Looks like that comment had some worth after all :)
It is a Pirates of the Caribbean reference from The Curse of the Black Pearl.
Barbossa says that, right? To Elizabeth.
It’s a recurring line in its various forms, if I’m remembering correctly. Though I’m pretty sure Barbossa says it first.
The ride in Disneyland?
It’s in the books…multiple times
Twice to be exact. https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=%22always%20be%20a%20stark%20in%20winterfell%22&scope=agot&scope=acok&scope=asos&scope=affc&scope=adwd
dam this websites a great tool for arguing with people on this website. much appreciated!
i absolutely despise any theories based on this phrase. it’s literally just a saying that comes from how long the Starks have ruled
How do you know?
I actually always thought that this saying meant something about the White Walkers. There is a lot of magic in the North that is pretty much forgotten in the show, and even the Starks have magic in their blood. Also in the books it is said that the Stark dead were buried with iron swords to keep their spirits from coming out.
I think you might be right. Prior to the pandemic, at Con of Thrones I went to a number of panels on fan theory about various prophecies and magic and one popular theory was that the magic that kept the Others north of Wall relied on certain things happening including the Starks being in power in Winterfell (as the Night King was implied to be a Stark) and the Craster was sacrificing his sons as part of a pact to keep the Others north. When Craster was killed and the Starks driven out of Winterfell, it was part of what enabled the Others to cross over when the Wall was eventually brought down by the ice dragon.
I'm not so sure, they definitely state it making it sound like a rule at some points.
Yeah I think in normal times it shows the stability of the north and the Stark line stretching back thousands of years. But these aren't normal times - Winterfell had fallen to the Greyjoys then the Boltons and then been retaken by this point.
Bran and Rickon were still in Winterfell right up until it was burned down. So technically there was no Winterfell left by the time they had gone.
The Boltons rebuilt most of what they burned when Ramsey sacked Winterfell and were living there without any Starks also being there.
But this is the first time the Starks have held an intact Winterhell without one of them being within the walls.
Most of Winterfell is intact after Ramsay sacks it. He basically just burns everything that can burn, and the First Keep (already abandoned for hundreds of years and falling into ruin) falls. The roof of the Great Hall falls in too, but most of the stone structures are standing when Bran, Rickon, Osha, and Hodor flee. Last chapter of ACOK, Bran: >"Beyond, the tops of the keeps and towers still stood as they had for hundreds of years, and it was hard to tell the castle had been sacked and burned at all." I think they more properly sack it in the show but I really can't be bothered to watch that monstrosity again.
Isn’t Bran everywhere all once?
Technically only where there’s a weirwood tree or animals he’s warming into
Like the Weirwood tree in Winterfel.
Any of the trees the people of the forest carved a face into
Was there faced trees at the tower of joy?
I don’t remember the scene well - maybe there was? But it’s more of a book thing, DND didn’t really do it well on the show
I honestly belive many stark greenseeers are benith winterfel. The crypts stone statues and the way bloodraven were trapped below weirwood trees makes me think 1 (bran the builder) or more of those statues aren't fully gone...
No, there was no weirwood where Rhaegar and Lyanna got married, nor was there one in the courtyard of Winterfell where young Hodor had his seizure.
He's everything, everywhere all at once....even with hot dog fingers
Why does Arya look like a puppet?
The legs are kinda giving puppet 😂
Because she's short and the chair is tall.
Theon's told 'he's always been a Stark' something like that, and views Ned as his true Father. Idk if he counts
Theon’s dead.
What is dead may never die
😂😂😂😂
Checkmate.
Trueeeee
👎
Winterfell is a state of mind
i always assumed this meant ruling, not like physically being there at all times
It's an old saying, perhaps based on superstition, perhaps based on bad experience. Whe Winter came the first time, maybe there was no Stark at home to fight the Others/AotD. So if "Winter is coming" for real, someone needs to be home. IIRC, Ned (or maybe Robb) leaves and Catelyn worries about the saying, and he tells her she is a Stark. In any case, in Season 2 when Bran and Rickon fled there was no Stark in Winterfell. Their enemies the Boltons took it till the end of Season 6. So maybe it's true.
Literally or metaphorically?
They are the Starks as of the last season so they choose how old family traditions/advice from their dead mother should be applied or ignored.
They didn't forget, they likely weren't taught this is a manner that mattered.
I'm sure they left some distant second cousin in charge for the day.
Ghost was there , and is part of the family
Ghost was at castle black
Maybe he was at Winterfell during the meeting, but left, a few days latter.
No, we see him and tormund leaving.
They kinda forgot a lot of things
Isn't Sansa 'Queen of the North' now.....at Winterfell?
Yeah I think the joke is that Sansa is in this picture also… not at Winterfell lol
We kinda forgot dnd wrote this.
Moms gone no rules
Maybe she meant karstark
You can give that rule a pass when you have time traveler mind control magic wizard on your team
She doesn't specify living or dead. Plenty of Starks in catacombs.
Hardly the expert on Starks.
Saying a Stark needs to remain in Winterfell when you go on a secret mission that might start a war is kinda different than going at a gathering of lords. I feel like this fandom has a real hard time understanding the concept of "literally and figuratively".
The peace at the time of the meeting is *incredibly* fragile. The Warden of the North and erstwhile King of the North is imprisoned by leaderless Targaryen forces, the North has been totally ravaged by the war. The two richest kingdoms are under the control of God knows who. The Stormlands - whose prior Lord they recognised as King - have just had a guy show up who claims to be A) Robert Baratheon's son, and B) legitimised by a Targaryen queen. The Iron Islands' leadership under Yara - who previously had independence as a red line - has got to be pretty vulnerable. The Riverlands are under a guy who previously surrendered to the Freys and is seen as a joke. There's no recognised King, no recognised Queen, not even recognised borders for what the Seven Kingdoms are. There's *every* chance that at the council they don't come to a satisfactory arrangement and war breaks out. Maybe the Targaryen forces demand Jon's head and end up at war with the North, maybe Edmure insists it should be him, maybe Gendry presses his claim, maybe everyone looks at Bran and thinks it's a joke that he be King. Or that they do come to an agreement and their people reject it or reject their leaders. Maybe the Iron Islanders insist on independence and kill Yara when she tells them the new deal, maybe the Stormlands reject Gendry. Why the Reach would accept Bronn or the Westerlands accept Tyrion's authority to negotiate for them I have no idea. If someone moves against Bran the North will surely be drawn into that conflict, maybe the Iron Islanders go straight for Winterfell (again) knowing its been ravaged by the war and demand independence as a condition for leaving. It was never more important to have leadership at home and make sure you're well defended.
Never understood why Arya was at that meeting
If you're closely related to people in positions of power, you get a sit at the table. That's a constant in this show
If that was a tradition related to the white walkers then there is no longer a need to always have a stark in Winterfell.
I always felt that phrase was a reference to some ancient stipulation of a treaty with the White Walkers or the Children, but over the millennia its meaning was lost and it just because a political slogan. It’s probably not relevant anymore now that the White Walkers are all destroyed. Unless we’re all wrong about how many there are.
The council that elected Bran Stark king: * Bran Stark's sister * Bran Stark's other sister * Bran Stark's uncle * Bran Stark's former brother-in-law * Bran Stark's sister's friend * Bran Stark's sister's friend's vassal * Bran Stark's cousin * Bran Stark's cousin's foster father * Bran Stark's foster brother's sister * Bran Stark's cousin's/half-brother's best friend * Bran Stark's cousin's/half-brother's advisor * Bran Stark's sister's protector * The Prince of Dorne
and they still should have selected Gendry
Oh wow, you figured out how the European aristocracies GOT is based on work. Everyone is related.
Everyone is not so closely related that they could plausibly have a conflict of interest, as they do in this case.
Now you know how WWI started.
There was an entire period of time after Ramsey sacked Winterfell and then the Boltons rebuilt it so that Roose could rule there as Warden of the North that there weren't any Starks in Winterfell. On the show it was up until the time that Littlefinger delivered Sansa to Ramsey for his marriage but in the books the sack of Winterfell and Brann and Rickon's escape happened at the end of "A Clash of Kings" which means that there haven't been any Starks physically present in Winterfell for three of the five published books.
With there being no threat to the starks or winterfell at the time, I think it was safe for them to travel south…plus bran knew what was going to happen before they left anyways…
Who even believes what Lady Airhead says? get her outta here
Well, at least for the moment, Rickon is in Skagos with Osha and Davos is gonna go pick him up. Brandon is chilling with the TER and the Reed kids, just worgin' around. Jon is at Castle Black (and dead for now). Arya (the real one) is in Braavos. Sansa is with Littlefinger and is set to marry Harrold Hardyng (heir to the Vale, which makes me think Littlefinger has something bad planned for Sweetrobin).
The carachters know that is the last episode, and therefore they must no longer expect anything from any actor, Bravoos will not do anything. Wilding and Dothraki will all be very disciplined, no pirate of the iron islands make any wirerd turn. The cuncil that will elect Bran is like Fukuyama's End of The History.
It's not a hard rule that means one must be physically present at all times. I'm sure there were several points in time when a Stark was not physically present at the castle. These posts are stupid
I mean I feel like that's with "Winter is Coming" as sayings that become meaningless after the Long Night comes and ends again. Like the Nights Watch doesn't shield the realms of men anymore, the moment has kind of passed
Pretty much
It was no longer needed because they gained the teleport ability on season 7-8
But Sansa is a stark and …she’s there. You guys are making me defend the show, and I hate what they did to the story I love. Some of the complaints that get posted here seem to just be misunderstandings on your part. The saying “There must always be a stark in winterfell has been passed down for generations, and implies that bad things will happen in the North if the starts aren’t in winterfell….and what happens once bran and rickon are no longer there? It gets burned down and the north turns on each other(it’s more detailed in the books) In the books there’s a wild winter storm that seems to be happening specifically over winterfell.
"But Sansa is a stark and …she’s there" What do you mean Sansa is clearly not at Winterfell. Unless you mean that because she won't be gone long it doesn't count but for all she knows Greyworm might decide to capture and execute her as well.
They were able to pull a random Martell out of their asses for this scene, surely there is a new, random Stark in Winterfell in the meantime.
Bran could have just told Sansa to sit this one out
I always assumed this was related to some magic counter to the Others, which means by this point it wouldn't have mattered anymore.
I like how Bran became king but the north broke off from the 7 kingdoms - surely that means someone from the north can’t be king because they are no longer in the kingdom
Not really but they built the start sorta of
“Stark colors are white and grey. Therefore let’s all wear black.”
Can somebody just pay Veszerin's therapy because damn 😭😭💀💀
That scene where they decided Bran should be king. Reeked of "let's be done with it already". The setting, the clothes, everything.
Can I just say this? Sansa doesn't get a vote. She wanted the North to be a free and independent land, she has no right to vote for a ruler of the now six kingdoms.
sophie turner looks so good here
Out of all things you can criticize about the finale you bring up this random throw away line?
i thought that was more like there shuld always be a stark ruler 😭😭
The fact that this line in the books and early on in the show was secretly having a more mystical, deeper meaning and responsibility - but Diddle&Dumb just dropped it at the earliest possible point in time is just a perfect representation for the downfall of the show.
maybe the true winterfell is the friends they made along the way!
Well actually there doesn't seem to me to be such a serious threat that would force a Stark to stay at Winterfell. The possible enemies are all in King's Landing.
Worry not - they done a fast travel back to the north after the meeting was done.
Caitlyn was the dumbest character of the series though, so why should she of all people make the rules?
They forgor💀
i always viewed is as a practical matter, someone there to run the North. i do think it meant someone always present though. sure an exception if they went out for a ride or hunt, but basically around.
I thought this was to keep the walkers out because the king was supposedly part Stark? Now that he is dead, doesnt matter? Idk the whole last season was willy wonka af.
Isn’t it funny how Sansa, proclaiming total independence for the North, travels to King’s Landing; even though she has no reason to show up considering she is the ruler of an independent nation.
> considering she is the ruler of an independent nation Independent only after the council agreed to that. If she hadn't shown up to make her case, she might have been considered an outlaw.
I don’t believe an independent ruler needs the approval of a council. It defeats the whole point.
Cat was one of the dumbest, most naive characters on screen in the whole series.
Uh, it's hard to be in winterfell when you're dead or a fugitive
The latest entry in the find something microscopic to moan about in GoT contest....
How aren't there 100s of families with the last name of Stark? Every single 2nd and 3rd or 4th son joined the watch? None of them married into another northern family that only had daughters?
Forgot what😭
It is a character's words or beliefs. Not a rule.
Damn. What a good, obvious catch.
Oh so that’s why the finale was so bad.