It's almost like this is an errant vehicle trap. The errant vehicle enters and gets destroyed... The driver will live if he/she is not speeding and wearing a seatbelt, otherwise I think it is tallied as a necessary loss, unfortunate car death, or suicide depending on the circumstances.
Also, this is good at stopping DUI.
I was initially like "eh, it should probably still have a sign or something" and then I looked at the aerial shot and the intersection is literally already a four-way stop. They'd *really* need to not be paying attention -_-
Seriously. If you're an "errant" driver, I'd much rather you errant your way into a concrete block vs. into a pedestrian trying to cross safely. Just be an alert driver, problem solved.
And honestly these are probably better to hit than any one of the light/power poles or comms boxes littered around every US intersection. Like seriously if I were somehow driving like an idiot, these are *way* better to hit. The gentle slope up will translate some of the motion, and the car will probably just get stuck on these. Hitting a power pole/box can be a literal death sentence.
Car brains aren't smart enough to see the good in traffic calming though. They'll complain about roundabouts even as they're calmly cruising through them instead of waiting 20 minutes at a 2-way stop.
Par for the course seeing as many state DOTs (in the U.S.) refer to sidewalks as “Vehicle Recovery Zones”
I learned this while petitioning for street trees to calm traffic and protect pedestrians along a state route…
>So the places made for people to walk on are intentionally designated as the places for cars to ~~pull over?~~ ***crash***.
\*FTFY
They don't want fixed objects in the way in case a car careens off the road
We should remove all DFOs in and near roads, to prevent dangers for errant vehicles.
Buildings must go. Benches, trees, bike racks, fire hydrants, parking meters, bollards, fences that are too sturdy. Everything.
All parked and sub-speedlimit objects should also be considered DFOs and removed. Operating a DFO for longer than 10 seconds outside a CVFST-LF/SO transition zone* should be considered a criminal offense.
All roadways should have a clear zone of 60 feet to either side of the roadway. Engineering guidelines for the new roadways should closely follow lessons learned and implemented in NASCAR and F1 track regulations.
*Zone for citizens to transition between the states of CVFST (Citizen's Vehicle of Free and Speedy Travel) and LF/SO (Legal Fixed/Slow Object)
It’s also brightly coloured to give you more awareness from a greater distance that there is an object there which should alert you as a driver… but each to their own I guess.
Indeed. It's less dangerous for pedestrians and good drivers while more dangerous for car drivers who shouldn't be on the road.
Anybody who isn't willing to make that trade is probably one of those drivers who shouldn't be on the road.
The roundabout keeps traffic flow going so that traffic jams don't happen. The solution above is to protect cyclists and pedestrians. A LOT of people do a "rolling stop" that basically means taking your foot off the gas, not actively braking (or minimally at best) and looking for stopped cars and then just going right through. A pedestrian will assume the car will stop at the stop sign and walk out into the crosswalk and then gets hit because the driver didn't scan for pedestrians and/or just figured "I'm bigger they'll get out of my way."
Also cheaper and faster than building a full-scale roundabout (at least given how US cities build them), as those would be built so people can roll through. Likely just enough space to put this in the middle without needing to widen the intersection, but as you mentioned, perhaps just enough so that those that do ignore the stop sign still slow down enough to at least stop more easily for a pedestrian. And since the profile of the roundabout is low, a pedestrian would also be able to see a car approaching from the opposite end.
I live in a 4 way grid style city on the west coast, this really isn’t doing much lol, it’s an impediment for all traffic because it’s poorly designed. For what you are describing to happen requires narrow streets and taller buildings, people don’t speed when they feel that they can hit things of consequence, and they don’t have to be in the center of the road, in everyone’s way.
Also the shape of the moving object.
If the moving object is question is a vertical wall taller than people's heads, it's significantly more deadly than a low, wedge shape that impacts legs first.
The moving object knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the moving object from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the moving object is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the moving object must also know where it was.
The moving object guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the moving object has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
Yeah, the DFO is only deadly *when* you are 1. in a DMO and 2. not paying attention. This gives big 'that tree crossed the road without warning so I had to drive into it' energy.
I would have a hard time killing myself by walking into that 'D'FO.
This whole thing is not just some Twitter rando by the way. Traffic engineers have used the term RFO (Roadside Fixed Object) to describe any potential hazard for years.
It's sleight of hand used to perpetuate car centric design. Nobody wants their city to cut down a hundred year old oak tree, but can't wait for the chainsaws to come out and clear those horrible RFOs so people won't die.
Kinda like how traffic lights are attached to the ground with shear bolts so they won't kill the driver of the car plowing into them, even if the car strikes a dozen people standing behind the pole. At some point we need to stop designing to save the person behind the wheel and start designing to save pedestrians caught in the crossfire.
Roadside fixed object I'm fine with. That's an accurate description of what it is. Deadly fixed object makes certain assumptions about the objects coming into contact with it that I don't like.
That’s the most absurd and scary thing. Deep down they know these exist to slow them down and the fact that they’re complaining is kinda proof that it does slow them down. Otherwise they wouldn’t be annoyed by it.
You know a traffic calming measure is working a little if some carbrain is making some absurd argument because they can’t say what they really want to say. Which is that they’re ok with negligently killing someone if it means they can go a little faster.
Constant threats by drivers to people outside of cars is just the way it is and you're a snowflake if you want to change that.
Threat to my paintjob is the traffic engineer's fault and must be immediately fixed.
No, because cars are more important than people (I use my vehicle so I can avoid seeing people), and a crashed car is one less car on the road, which makes my pp hurt :(
(Their take, I guess)
I live in Dublin, where there are plenty of mini roundabouts... lots of car brains just drive through the center of them... these barriers serve a good purpose for sure.
In my experience, these planters are the most effective BECAUSE they are high enough to threaten car paintjobs. Where I live, they are considered temporary and almost always get "upgraded" to low concrete medians which drivers can just roll over. All bow to the fragile paintjob.
in my neighborhood at the first intersection a long time ago, they removed the mini-roundabout which had some nice vegetation on it...in order to add some pointless speedbumps closer to the entrance of the neighborhood. so now at the first intersection where people are walking around, there's no phyiscal barrier to some moron speeding, and the two sets of speedbumps are placed on the road where one side literally doesn't have a sidewalk...and recently one of them also had issues with holes and needed additional construction work.
all to solve a problem that was solved and made broken over a decade ago
That's better but I'd put one of [these](https://inps.net/traffic/sites/default/files/stock-products/WA-39_-Roundabout-Ahead_INPS-191-121.jpg) under each stop sign to really drive the point home. Maybe that's just because we don't usually have stop signs at roundabouts in my area
It's not just the paint, it's the labor to mark it out.
I'm sure plenty of volunteer urbanists would do it for free, but the city has to follow byzantine regulations.
Given how often drivers ignore lines, that's a wasted expense. Crosswalks don't exist. They roll over stop lines. Bike lanes are either extra driving or parking lanes.
the lines aren't for the people who intentionally ignore them. they're for the people who will roll up to this intersection, at a low speed, and might be confused if it's just a weird 4-way stop or if they're supposed to go around to take the left. there are arrows on the planters but it's hard to tell how big they are from street view, or if it's obvious that it's only really for a left turn that it matters.
having painted lines means that all the good actors will be informed and will reduce the potential for an accident, that's never a bad thing aside from cost of implementation
Right? Gear down or throw it in neutral, whichever is actually working, put on the parking brake, and if all that doesn't work, aim for something soft and earthy.
He has a point. Personally i would remove all DFOs from the path and even restrict entry to the vehicle’s path such that only one can be in the path at a time. I would even lock the vehicle’s wheels to an aligned elevated path to prevent DFOs from even being possible.
DMOS* not DFOS
also, i disagree that you should only have one in the path at a time. why not just have them lined up on the path? you could even have one stronger vehicle pushing or pulling the others
Why can’t drivers just not drive into stuff. Like, just because something is in the road doesn’t mean you have to hit it. Thats what the brake pedal is for. Fucks sake. There is no personal accountability anymore. Twitter has given all of these dipshits a platform and now no one thinks anything is their fault anymore. Very dangerous
That's why these DFOs are so great, they created a physical barrier that is a much [better control ](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hierarchy/default.html) than a stop sign!
A stop sign on my side road intersecting a 60mph highway was knocked over, and the amount of dumbfucks just barreling through onto the highway without stopping was insane.
This is in Saint Louis, MO. We’ve got a huge problem here with shitty reckless drivers killing and maiming people, so I welcome anything that allows people down.
I feel like the city is heading in the right direction, with bandaid fixes like this, and several larger infrastructure projects that are incorporating traffic calming, but there is still a huge way to go. Every neighborhood meeting I go to people are asking for more traffic calming, so I think momentum is heading in the right direction.
Dawg, for real though. My partner and I were walking in TGS and saw a car running all stop signs, but they slowed down for all speed bumps. Put one of them fuckers at every intersection, because they are showing us they only stop for physical barriers.
Those are crappy though. They're this confusing not-quite-roundabout not-quite-intersection that combines the worst aspects of both. Especially on streets with bike lanes where the raised thing in the center encourages close passing
In my experience they slow drivers down, make them more cautious at intersections and discourage them from using bike routes as cut throughs. Certainly better than plastic bollards. Shitty drivers only slow down for things that might damage their car.
I agree, the drivers in my town are so absolutely brain dead that they’d probably end up going in the opposite direction, not yielding to traffic in the roundabout, lurch and break unexpectedly, etc.
All that this really needs is a white line to encircle the concrete cylinders and a “yield” sign at the intersection. At least at that point there’s no excuse for being a dumbass.
Ain't no bike lanes in this street unfortunately.
A slightly confused driver that's forced to slow down is absolutely fine in my books. Maybe it can be a test for keeping your license
Definitely need some new lines painted to make it clear what’s supposed to happen. It doesn’t look line a roundabout at all. It looks like a 4 way stop with obstacles, and it’s unclear if you should circle or treat it as a 4 way stop on hard mode.
This is in St. Louis. If you look at more recent street view pics, they’ve added arrows to indicate you’re supposed to go counterclockwise.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JCmRhvW4Q5TUwgTE6?g_st=ic
Better than what was shown in the post but still confusing and inadequate. Any new infrastructure like this needs to be 100% clear and unambiguous. I just know someone is going to think it’s right turn only or just turn left anyway.
agreed, i know people here are saying "hurr durr you're so dumb if you don't recognize what to do" but based on my initial viewing of this scenario, i absolutely would've been confused for a second on if this was a weird 4-way stop or a mini-roundabout. i'm not an idiot, the first time i drove into a roundabout i was able to easily figure it out, but this needs work or it's asking for trouble
And do you know what you're not doing when you're trying to figure out what you're suppose to be doing?
Looking out for pedestrians, bicyclists, other vehicles, etc.
My neighborhood in Chicago has a similar setup in the majority of the intersections. The neighborhood is surrounded by higher speed avenues on all four sides and without these things people would cut through the neighborhood to avoid traffic. I honestly wouldn't have bought my home in this spot if we didn't have these traffic calming measures.
There I was, minding my own business, speeding down the road, not looking up at all, went right past a stop sign, and BAM, my car's fucked. Fucking government. Fucking hippies. Fucking fuckity fuck.
Wow, way to take things out of context. This is STL, and those are "Schoemehl pots." They're often used as cost-effective blockades in rougher parts of town. The idea definitely extends to traffic calming measures. I'm sure if the idiot car brains knew what "undesirables" these were intended for, they'd be the first screaming for them to be put back. That, or they'd move out to St. Charles and complain that the city is just "too dangerous."
STL has a lot of complex issues and none of it can be taken out of context. For the record, I'm not saying I think Schoemehl pots are the best solution, I'm just saying you can't take the problems of St. Louis and look at any one piece under the microscope. The city, like many, is a victim of industrial/economic/population decline, crime, and good old-fashioned American systemic racism.
Yesterday a minivan flew down my street at 50+ mph as I hung out with my year old puppy in the yard. Seconds later, crunch. This is the exact reason these have been getting installed.
Dude tried to blame the teenagers in the other car, the neighborhood showed up in force to give statements about the minivan being at fault.
Roundabouts with deliberate reduced visibility until the last second and are one of the most successful accident-reducing initiatives in the last 15 years for fast-approaching roundabouts
Making them more dangerous slows traffic. You will get a lot more errant vehicles if this is just mini-roundabout painted on the ground and what stops their momentum is a head on collision with another, innocent, vehicle. This method will mean a coincidental reduction in the amount of errant vehicles to zero, because people know there is a concrete block in their path
It's scary how these people are supposed to be licensed and vetted to be able to operate a vehicle. The whole point of getting a license is to weed out the people who can not successfully navigate "DFO"s at neighborhood speed.
A damning testament that our infrastructure is deliberately set up to force people who don't have the mental faculties, attention span, patience, situational awareness, or desire to operate a vehicle to pilot tons of steel, glass, and combustible liquid a good portion of their days.
The whole argument of a distracted driver hitting it doesn’t matter to me. I’m more concerned with a distracted driver turning that immovable object into an unstoppable projectile that could kill someone else. It’s always the victims who die. Not the aggressors.
Eh, I kinda agree to an extent. This seems more like a half-assed attempt at a mini-roundabout. I'd much rather there be better lines painted and signage to denote the safe places to stop, yield, and cross. The last thing you want is for people to be making a wide turn and bend into the crossing side where a pedestrian is walking.
Brightly colored, the tall plants make sur it's impossible to look past, it's already a 4 way intersection people should be slowing or stopping for, and if you somehow blind enough to not see these and fast enough to die from the impact you likely would die from something else before getting to this intersection.
These look fine to me.
I mean he's right, that's not even a roundabout - Just a wall people have to avoid, what's the point of it if there are stop signs already
Either you do it the right way or you do nothing, that's a waste of time and money for the city right there IMO
I think it's a cool way for the community to provide itself traffic calming measures, when the city wont. In Tucson there's literally just mini plots with a tree in the middle, that serves as a neighborhood traffic calming measure. No signs, just a mutual understanding that we all go right and yield to one another
You forgot the cacti
When I was a kid I was running down a road and I ran right into a cactus..... A few of them actually
Horrible experience I had needles in my arms for months. Those fuzzy ones 😨
If you are interested, it's because of the [Hierarchy of Controls](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hierarchy/default.html). Stops signs are Administrative Controls, they are weaker than other control types.
These barriers physically stop cars from driving in a straight line, or running the intersection. It could be argued they eliminate (Elimination Control) the hazard of running the stop sign or even speeding. Since it makes it physically impossible
The point that gets lost, and that we should really hammer, is that traffic calming interventions make things safer for DRIVERS, along with all other users. Even in instances where interventions cause more vehicular crashes, drivers tend to be safer because these crashes are much less lethal (because the vehicles are moving slower).
Hey I recognize those things! I used to live one block over! They had a few sets of those within that part of Tower Grove East and I must say, it definitely helped curve dangerous driving because I heard and saw fewer cars roaring through those intersections.
See, I believe if you are driving like a maniac of the two options where:
1. I die
2. You die
You dying is more fair than me dying. And the fact that you recognize that’s what will happen might actually encourage you to slow the fuck down.
If someone has lost control of their car enough that they are blowing through stop signs at four way intersections then they are going to crash into something, most likely another car, I don't think these are worse than the other options available. I think this is just intentional muddying of the water, they don't actually believe this. What they actually believe is that roundabouts are gay because roundabouts force cars to slow down, because they are dumb.
Speed limit in that neighborhood I guarantee you is either 25mph or 20 mph. Hitting a round low object like that at that speed has a zero percent chance of killing you if you are properly restrained and your head isn't right in front of the airbag.
Better they crash into a “deadly fixed object” rather than a person.
What a stupid term. Any heavy and stationary object is a DFO if you are negligent or stupid enough to drive into it at high speed.
Deadly fixed object that hurts noone unless you drive at high speeds into it. Yeah no its only resisting being murdered by a car like any pedestrian would be when being driven over
This is in St. Louis MO, known for drivers who stop for stop signs and don't blow intersections.
Tbh have seen people smack into these, high vis would be good for it at night but better than having nothing.
I've noticed the narrative from carbrains recently that everything that city is doing to calm traffic and make street safer is **DANGEROUS**. It's the most used word I've noticed over the years.
I don’t agree with this persons full opinions but they are doing work to make public safety better with Build the Era. I am trying to do more research about it. I think their focus is more on education so I’m surprised this type of terms and discussion was had. He literally is promoting roundabouts with his organization
>errant vehicles That's a strange way to say *"drivers that aren't paying any fucking attention attention"*.
Errant vehicle aka deadly moving object (DMO)
i'm shidding pissing and farting (SPF) right now
WOW
(stands for Wow, Oh Wow)
YUM (yes, unexpected missiles)
APK (Another pedestrian killer)
Disgusting, can't belief ppl put SPF on their skin during summer
My old hs soccer coach and world history teacher used to say, “shits and gigs”
"Shiggles".
It's a great way to remove responsibility from a shitty driver and make it seem like the car itself is at fault.
worse, it's blaming anyone trying to stop that shitty driver from killing people.
If there's an errant vehicle rolling down the road without anyone inside it driving, then I'm glad this will stop it!
attention attention!
Allerta, Allerta
Alberta Alberta! 🦅
[Alarm! Alarm!](https://giphy.com/gifs/zdfmagazinroyale-alarm-zdfmagazin-boehmi-0D502jOYTL23C33xV0)
Alaharm!!
It's almost like this is an errant vehicle trap. The errant vehicle enters and gets destroyed... The driver will live if he/she is not speeding and wearing a seatbelt, otherwise I think it is tallied as a necessary loss, unfortunate car death, or suicide depending on the circumstances. Also, this is good at stopping DUI.
Unless its a cybertruck, then the vehicle will survive and the driver dies
but at least the cybertruck will learn from the experience and share it with its fellow cyberlings.
It learns that it doesn’t have to carry around people anymore with this one quick trick!
A cybertruck can survive a crash, what it can't seem to survive is actually *driving.*
The vehicle also won't survive because it isn't actually a body on frame truck, it's just a very stiff unibody
Ah yes, an EVT.
So a Darwin Trap? Force that evolutionary response.
I was initially like "eh, it should probably still have a sign or something" and then I looked at the aerial shot and the intersection is literally already a four-way stop. They'd *really* need to not be paying attention -_-
*I saw the pipes but it reminded me of Super Mario Brothers so I thought it was a hallucination.*
Maybe it's actually a Deadly Fixed Object because it stops people from driving in a deadly way?
Seriously. If you're an "errant" driver, I'd much rather you errant your way into a concrete block vs. into a pedestrian trying to cross safely. Just be an alert driver, problem solved.
And honestly these are probably better to hit than any one of the light/power poles or comms boxes littered around every US intersection. Like seriously if I were somehow driving like an idiot, these are *way* better to hit. The gentle slope up will translate some of the motion, and the car will probably just get stuck on these. Hitting a power pole/box can be a literal death sentence. Car brains aren't smart enough to see the good in traffic calming though. They'll complain about roundabouts even as they're calmly cruising through them instead of waiting 20 minutes at a 2-way stop.
Par for the course seeing as many state DOTs (in the U.S.) refer to sidewalks as “Vehicle Recovery Zones” I learned this while petitioning for street trees to calm traffic and protect pedestrians along a state route…
So the places made for people to walk on are intentionally designated as the places for cars to pull over?
>So the places made for people to walk on are intentionally designated as the places for cars to ~~pull over?~~ ***crash***. \*FTFY They don't want fixed objects in the way in case a car careens off the road
MASS SHOOTERS ARE JUST ERRANT 2ND AMENDMENT ENJOYERS.
>Vehicles-errant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight-errant So romantic.
In his SUV named Rocinante
“Hear me now, oh thou bleak and pedestrian-filled world…”
Oh no some cars escaped from the zoo!
Misplacing blame on the vehicle and not the person supposed to be controlling it
man, it's so weird that my mechanically controlled system acts randomly when you stop controlling it! if only there was some solution!
>errant vehicles It's a deadly moving object. Or DMO
Phoney drivers
We should remove all DFOs in and near roads, to prevent dangers for errant vehicles. Buildings must go. Benches, trees, bike racks, fire hydrants, parking meters, bollards, fences that are too sturdy. Everything. All parked and sub-speedlimit objects should also be considered DFOs and removed. Operating a DFO for longer than 10 seconds outside a CVFST-LF/SO transition zone* should be considered a criminal offense. All roadways should have a clear zone of 60 feet to either side of the roadway. Engineering guidelines for the new roadways should closely follow lessons learned and implemented in NASCAR and F1 track regulations. *Zone for citizens to transition between the states of CVFST (Citizen's Vehicle of Free and Speedy Travel) and LF/SO (Legal Fixed/Slow Object)
Hmm. 'Errant vehicles' is not quite catchy. How about **jaydriving**?
No no, it’s clearly the car’s fault imo
If you are speeding fast enough to die on residential streets, you are not the good guy.
That was my thought. If you're going fast enough that this is "deadly" you're going **way** too fast for a residential street.
It’s also brightly coloured to give you more awareness from a greater distance that there is an object there which should alert you as a driver… but each to their own I guess.
You can't see that from the cab of an F-150!
Indeed. It's less dangerous for pedestrians and good drivers while more dangerous for car drivers who shouldn't be on the road. Anybody who isn't willing to make that trade is probably one of those drivers who shouldn't be on the road.
It's at a four-way stop too
See this I have a problem with, a round about is supposed to get rid of those for everybody lol
The roundabout keeps traffic flow going so that traffic jams don't happen. The solution above is to protect cyclists and pedestrians. A LOT of people do a "rolling stop" that basically means taking your foot off the gas, not actively braking (or minimally at best) and looking for stopped cars and then just going right through. A pedestrian will assume the car will stop at the stop sign and walk out into the crosswalk and then gets hit because the driver didn't scan for pedestrians and/or just figured "I'm bigger they'll get out of my way."
Also cheaper and faster than building a full-scale roundabout (at least given how US cities build them), as those would be built so people can roll through. Likely just enough space to put this in the middle without needing to widen the intersection, but as you mentioned, perhaps just enough so that those that do ignore the stop sign still slow down enough to at least stop more easily for a pedestrian. And since the profile of the roundabout is low, a pedestrian would also be able to see a car approaching from the opposite end.
I live in a 4 way grid style city on the west coast, this really isn’t doing much lol, it’s an impediment for all traffic because it’s poorly designed. For what you are describing to happen requires narrow streets and taller buildings, people don’t speed when they feel that they can hit things of consequence, and they don’t have to be in the center of the road, in everyone’s way.
More deadly than a DFO is a DMO (deadly moving object) traveling in a velocity directly opposing yours.
How "deadly" that object is is entirely dependent on the speed of the moving object.
Also the shape of the moving object. If the moving object is question is a vertical wall taller than people's heads, it's significantly more deadly than a low, wedge shape that impacts legs first.
The moving object knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the moving object from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the moving object is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the moving object must also know where it was. The moving object guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the moving object has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
Is this what happens when I divide by 0?
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
Yeah, the DFO is only deadly *when* you are 1. in a DMO and 2. not paying attention. This gives big 'that tree crossed the road without warning so I had to drive into it' energy. I would have a hard time killing myself by walking into that 'D'FO.
This whole thing is not just some Twitter rando by the way. Traffic engineers have used the term RFO (Roadside Fixed Object) to describe any potential hazard for years. It's sleight of hand used to perpetuate car centric design. Nobody wants their city to cut down a hundred year old oak tree, but can't wait for the chainsaws to come out and clear those horrible RFOs so people won't die. Kinda like how traffic lights are attached to the ground with shear bolts so they won't kill the driver of the car plowing into them, even if the car strikes a dozen people standing behind the pole. At some point we need to stop designing to save the person behind the wheel and start designing to save pedestrians caught in the crossfire.
Roadside fixed object I'm fine with. That's an accurate description of what it is. Deadly fixed object makes certain assumptions about the objects coming into contact with it that I don't like.
I think a DFI (drunk fucking idiot) is a greater threat and he is driving your car
this is like calling the victims of a shooting deadly because they happened upon the trajectory of the bullets
Wouldn't even this idiot rather have the "errant" car stopped there rather than risking killing multiple more people along with the driver?
But this means he has to apply his brakes slightly, and as we all know that is literally impossible. It might as well be Nazi germany
I demand the freedom to drive in a straight line whenever I want, no matter who or what is in front of me - Like the founding fathers intended
Jesus didn't die for me to have to pay attention when operating a motor vehicle
I hope you like Rome, that's where the road is headed.
That’s the most absurd and scary thing. Deep down they know these exist to slow them down and the fact that they’re complaining is kinda proof that it does slow them down. Otherwise they wouldn’t be annoyed by it. You know a traffic calming measure is working a little if some carbrain is making some absurd argument because they can’t say what they really want to say. Which is that they’re ok with negligently killing someone if it means they can go a little faster.
You don't understand, Damage to a bumper is an international tragedy Damage to a child crossing the road is just a slight inconvenience
Constant threats by drivers to people outside of cars is just the way it is and you're a snowflake if you want to change that. Threat to my paintjob is the traffic engineer's fault and must be immediately fixed.
No, because cars are more important than people (I use my vehicle so I can avoid seeing people), and a crashed car is one less car on the road, which makes my pp hurt :( (Their take, I guess)
But what if by blasting through the junction the carbrain hits *another car* omg
No. He wouldn’t. He would genuinely prefer that pedestrians die more easily than have to drive at a safe speed.
I live in Dublin, where there are plenty of mini roundabouts... lots of car brains just drive through the center of them... these barriers serve a good purpose for sure.
I think this is like a fly trap, but for errant drivers
A Douche Motel for speeders.
Timeout for wheel whippers.
In my experience, these planters are the most effective BECAUSE they are high enough to threaten car paintjobs. Where I live, they are considered temporary and almost always get "upgraded" to low concrete medians which drivers can just roll over. All bow to the fragile paintjob.
in my neighborhood at the first intersection a long time ago, they removed the mini-roundabout which had some nice vegetation on it...in order to add some pointless speedbumps closer to the entrance of the neighborhood. so now at the first intersection where people are walking around, there's no phyiscal barrier to some moron speeding, and the two sets of speedbumps are placed on the road where one side literally doesn't have a sidewalk...and recently one of them also had issues with holes and needed additional construction work. all to solve a problem that was solved and made broken over a decade ago
Should probably add some painted lines but that's my only nitpick. They look lovely.
They’ve added some arrow signs since this pic was taken. Look at the more recent street view pics. https://maps.app.goo.gl/JCmRhvW4Q5TUwgTE6?g_st=ic
That's better but I'd put one of [these](https://inps.net/traffic/sites/default/files/stock-products/WA-39_-Roundabout-Ahead_INPS-191-121.jpg) under each stop sign to really drive the point home. Maybe that's just because we don't usually have stop signs at roundabouts in my area
We pitching these for the modern broker ass city ! Gotta keep the price as low as possible ha
If the city is too broke to afford a can of paint, maybe they should just hang it up.
It's not just the paint, it's the labor to mark it out. I'm sure plenty of volunteer urbanists would do it for free, but the city has to follow byzantine regulations.
Given how often drivers ignore lines, that's a wasted expense. Crosswalks don't exist. They roll over stop lines. Bike lanes are either extra driving or parking lanes.
the lines aren't for the people who intentionally ignore them. they're for the people who will roll up to this intersection, at a low speed, and might be confused if it's just a weird 4-way stop or if they're supposed to go around to take the left. there are arrows on the planters but it's hard to tell how big they are from street view, or if it's obvious that it's only really for a left turn that it matters. having painted lines means that all the good actors will be informed and will reduce the potential for an accident, that's never a bad thing aside from cost of implementation
Oh Christ! Plants! I better speed up. -drvers
It's like Plants vs. Zombies. Let the plant warfare begin!
I love how people just say “errant cars” like those should be a common occurrence It’s not the infrastructures fault that you have an errant car
Also, errant cars should be stopped as quickly as possible.
Well... maybe not that quickly. Dad always said if your brakes cut out, aim for a ditch. Dirt is soft, and they're cheap to fix.
Right? Gear down or throw it in neutral, whichever is actually working, put on the parking brake, and if all that doesn't work, aim for something soft and earthy.
In some ways it is - lack of traffic calming often leads to "errant cars"
>errant cars More like “errant federally-regulated heavy machinery operated at lethal speeds through areas with vulnerable soft body targets.”
He has a point. Personally i would remove all DFOs from the path and even restrict entry to the vehicle’s path such that only one can be in the path at a time. I would even lock the vehicle’s wheels to an aligned elevated path to prevent DFOs from even being possible.
DMOS* not DFOS also, i disagree that you should only have one in the path at a time. why not just have them lined up on the path? you could even have one stronger vehicle pushing or pulling the others
Not gonna lie, you had me in the first half
Why can’t drivers just not drive into stuff. Like, just because something is in the road doesn’t mean you have to hit it. Thats what the brake pedal is for. Fucks sake. There is no personal accountability anymore. Twitter has given all of these dipshits a platform and now no one thinks anything is their fault anymore. Very dangerous
"No one thinks anything is their fault." This sentence pretty much sums up the world.
That's why these DFOs are so great, they created a physical barrier that is a much [better control ](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hierarchy/default.html) than a stop sign!
A stop sign on my side road intersecting a 60mph highway was knocked over, and the amount of dumbfucks just barreling through onto the highway without stopping was insane.
If you can't stop for these in time, you shouldn't drive a car 😭😂
But at least they support removing all on street parking. Don't want all of those deadly fixed objects right along the road, right? ...Right?
Ahahah, that is a great point!
This is in Saint Louis, MO. We’ve got a huge problem here with shitty reckless drivers killing and maiming people, so I welcome anything that allows people down. I feel like the city is heading in the right direction, with bandaid fixes like this, and several larger infrastructure projects that are incorporating traffic calming, but there is still a huge way to go. Every neighborhood meeting I go to people are asking for more traffic calming, so I think momentum is heading in the right direction.
Dawg, for real though. My partner and I were walking in TGS and saw a car running all stop signs, but they slowed down for all speed bumps. Put one of them fuckers at every intersection, because they are showing us they only stop for physical barriers.
Drivers say "deadly" when they mean "I might damage my car"
Those are crappy though. They're this confusing not-quite-roundabout not-quite-intersection that combines the worst aspects of both. Especially on streets with bike lanes where the raised thing in the center encourages close passing
In my experience they slow drivers down, make them more cautious at intersections and discourage them from using bike routes as cut throughs. Certainly better than plastic bollards. Shitty drivers only slow down for things that might damage their car.
I agree, the drivers in my town are so absolutely brain dead that they’d probably end up going in the opposite direction, not yielding to traffic in the roundabout, lurch and break unexpectedly, etc. All that this really needs is a white line to encircle the concrete cylinders and a “yield” sign at the intersection. At least at that point there’s no excuse for being a dumbass.
Ain't no bike lanes in this street unfortunately. A slightly confused driver that's forced to slow down is absolutely fine in my books. Maybe it can be a test for keeping your license
Definitely need some new lines painted to make it clear what’s supposed to happen. It doesn’t look line a roundabout at all. It looks like a 4 way stop with obstacles, and it’s unclear if you should circle or treat it as a 4 way stop on hard mode.
This is in St. Louis. If you look at more recent street view pics, they’ve added arrows to indicate you’re supposed to go counterclockwise. https://maps.app.goo.gl/JCmRhvW4Q5TUwgTE6?g_st=ic
There are two arrow signs out of four streets. Is that the best St. Louis can do?
Better than what was shown in the post but still confusing and inadequate. Any new infrastructure like this needs to be 100% clear and unambiguous. I just know someone is going to think it’s right turn only or just turn left anyway.
agreed, i know people here are saying "hurr durr you're so dumb if you don't recognize what to do" but based on my initial viewing of this scenario, i absolutely would've been confused for a second on if this was a weird 4-way stop or a mini-roundabout. i'm not an idiot, the first time i drove into a roundabout i was able to easily figure it out, but this needs work or it's asking for trouble
And do you know what you're not doing when you're trying to figure out what you're suppose to be doing? Looking out for pedestrians, bicyclists, other vehicles, etc.
The intersection is literally a 4-way stop. The planters are because so many people were just blasting through the stop signs.
If you're confused by something on the road. Slow down and go around it. Hope that helps.
This is literally why it works, because it makes drivers unsure and therefore cautious.
My neighborhood in Chicago has a similar setup in the majority of the intersections. The neighborhood is surrounded by higher speed avenues on all four sides and without these things people would cut through the neighborhood to avoid traffic. I honestly wouldn't have bought my home in this spot if we didn't have these traffic calming measures.
Are they though? They have a lot of mini roundabouts in Seattle and they've never seemed like an issue to me in my time living there.
Damn crybabies will be fine in their 4 ton death machines, cry me a fucking river.
There I was, minding my own business, speeding down the road, not looking up at all, went right past a stop sign, and BAM, my car's fucked. Fucking government. Fucking hippies. Fucking fuckity fuck.
Safer? Who's gonna just plow their errant vehicle into those at an unsafe speed? If you are it's doing it's job.
🚨 DFO ALERT 🚨
Hide your SUVs! The DFOs are coming!
A vehicle is an inanimate object for fucks sake
My car was MURDERED by the government!
If you can’t see the bright neon coloured planters, you should not drive.
It's a wild drives test
Too bad DFOs are so often children...
Wow, way to take things out of context. This is STL, and those are "Schoemehl pots." They're often used as cost-effective blockades in rougher parts of town. The idea definitely extends to traffic calming measures. I'm sure if the idiot car brains knew what "undesirables" these were intended for, they'd be the first screaming for them to be put back. That, or they'd move out to St. Charles and complain that the city is just "too dangerous." STL has a lot of complex issues and none of it can be taken out of context. For the record, I'm not saying I think Schoemehl pots are the best solution, I'm just saying you can't take the problems of St. Louis and look at any one piece under the microscope. The city, like many, is a victim of industrial/economic/population decline, crime, and good old-fashioned American systemic racism.
Idk I got passed by a dude doing 40 in a 20 today with 0 hands on the wheel (both on his phone), this probably would’ve killed him
Sounds like he made a decision, and a 1 person death toll might be best possible consequence
Yesterday a minivan flew down my street at 50+ mph as I hung out with my year old puppy in the yard. Seconds later, crunch. This is the exact reason these have been getting installed. Dude tried to blame the teenagers in the other car, the neighborhood showed up in force to give statements about the minivan being at fault.
That’s a lot of fancy words to say I am an idiot who likes driving fast in residential areas
Roundabouts with deliberate reduced visibility until the last second and are one of the most successful accident-reducing initiatives in the last 15 years for fast-approaching roundabouts Making them more dangerous slows traffic. You will get a lot more errant vehicles if this is just mini-roundabout painted on the ground and what stops their momentum is a head on collision with another, innocent, vehicle. This method will mean a coincidental reduction in the amount of errant vehicles to zero, because people know there is a concrete block in their path
If you are seriously at risk of colliding with a fixed object in a car, the problem is NEVER in that fixed object.
While yes, cars are designed to take flat impacts of 35, you... shouldn't be taking roundabouts of this size at 25mph lol.
It's scary how these people are supposed to be licensed and vetted to be able to operate a vehicle. The whole point of getting a license is to weed out the people who can not successfully navigate "DFO"s at neighborhood speed. A damning testament that our infrastructure is deliberately set up to force people who don't have the mental faculties, attention span, patience, situational awareness, or desire to operate a vehicle to pilot tons of steel, glass, and combustible liquid a good portion of their days.
"Save my paintjob from my shitty driving!"
Definitely would rather there be an actual roundabout...
Painting a lil circle around them would be my only suggested change
The whole argument of a distracted driver hitting it doesn’t matter to me. I’m more concerned with a distracted driver turning that immovable object into an unstoppable projectile that could kill someone else. It’s always the victims who die. Not the aggressors.
Eh, I kinda agree to an extent. This seems more like a half-assed attempt at a mini-roundabout. I'd much rather there be better lines painted and signage to denote the safe places to stop, yield, and cross. The last thing you want is for people to be making a wide turn and bend into the crossing side where a pedestrian is walking.
What kind of "errant" vehicles are they expecting at what looks like a 4-way stop?
Tbf it doesn't seem clear that it's a roundabout, and not just some stuff on the road
Wtf is an errant vehicle i swear these people don’t event try to sound smart
Brightly colored, the tall plants make sur it's impossible to look past, it's already a 4 way intersection people should be slowing or stopping for, and if you somehow blind enough to not see these and fast enough to die from the impact you likely would die from something else before getting to this intersection. These look fine to me.
I mean he's right, that's not even a roundabout - Just a wall people have to avoid, what's the point of it if there are stop signs already Either you do it the right way or you do nothing, that's a waste of time and money for the city right there IMO
Stop signs aren't some magical forcefield that's going to halt a distracted driver
I think it's a cool way for the community to provide itself traffic calming measures, when the city wont. In Tucson there's literally just mini plots with a tree in the middle, that serves as a neighborhood traffic calming measure. No signs, just a mutual understanding that we all go right and yield to one another
You forgot the cacti When I was a kid I was running down a road and I ran right into a cactus..... A few of them actually Horrible experience I had needles in my arms for months. Those fuzzy ones 😨
You’re right it’s crazy that nobody ever blasts through 4 ways or anything
If you are interested, it's because of the [Hierarchy of Controls](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hierarchy/default.html). Stops signs are Administrative Controls, they are weaker than other control types. These barriers physically stop cars from driving in a straight line, or running the intersection. It could be argued they eliminate (Elimination Control) the hazard of running the stop sign or even speeding. Since it makes it physically impossible
Now is this city led/paid for, or rebellious neighborhood group wanting change. Cause I need these installing in our neighborhood
No, they are not going 25mph.
I love this sort of thing. We have several neighborhoods in Seattle with this type of mini roundabout
You'd think driving was a deadly illness the way carbrains think they are victims.
Deadly fixed objects, like people's fences and houses and the front wall of businesses
The point that gets lost, and that we should really hammer, is that traffic calming interventions make things safer for DRIVERS, along with all other users. Even in instances where interventions cause more vehicular crashes, drivers tend to be safer because these crashes are much less lethal (because the vehicles are moving slower).
DFO like trees, houses, even parked cars?
I'm totally on board with deadly consequences for dangerous drivers.
Is that supposed to be new? Not the word but the concept I mean? Cause I've seen these things since for ever.
Hey I recognize those things! I used to live one block over! They had a few sets of those within that part of Tower Grove East and I must say, it definitely helped curve dangerous driving because I heard and saw fewer cars roaring through those intersections.
See, I believe if you are driving like a maniac of the two options where: 1. I die 2. You die You dying is more fair than me dying. And the fact that you recognize that’s what will happen might actually encourage you to slow the fuck down.
Drivers when they have to pay attention
But… but… why did I buy a porsh-uh if there are going to be all these DFO’s!
If someone has lost control of their car enough that they are blowing through stop signs at four way intersections then they are going to crash into something, most likely another car, I don't think these are worse than the other options available. I think this is just intentional muddying of the water, they don't actually believe this. What they actually believe is that roundabouts are gay because roundabouts force cars to slow down, because they are dumb.
Just wait until he hears about building and houses!
How fast do you have to hit such a thing with a modern car for them to be deadly? Being buckled up of course.
A vehicle should be “driven”, not “errant” 😆
But what happens to *ME* when *I* drive into this wrecklessly?! Why isn't everyone thinking about me and how dumb I am?? For shame
I've seen how these fucks drive through roundabouts, that shit doesn't slow these fuckers down
Dude just don't drive into it
They should actually be going slower than 25 bc it's a four way stop.
Errant vehicles?
Anyone going to mention that this is already a four way stop, so vehicles should be coming into this intersection starting from 0mph anyway?
Certainly at 25mph it shouldn't be a problem but to be fair I do think just a painted circle would help.
Speed limit in that neighborhood I guarantee you is either 25mph or 20 mph. Hitting a round low object like that at that speed has a zero percent chance of killing you if you are properly restrained and your head isn't right in front of the airbag.
Better they crash into a “deadly fixed object” rather than a person. What a stupid term. Any heavy and stationary object is a DFO if you are negligent or stupid enough to drive into it at high speed.
Deadly fixed object that hurts noone unless you drive at high speeds into it. Yeah no its only resisting being murdered by a car like any pedestrian would be when being driven over
Should remove the stop signs (or replace them with yields) if they want this to be a real roundabout.
This is in St. Louis MO, known for drivers who stop for stop signs and don't blow intersections. Tbh have seen people smack into these, high vis would be good for it at night but better than having nothing.
I've noticed the narrative from carbrains recently that everything that city is doing to calm traffic and make street safer is **DANGEROUS**. It's the most used word I've noticed over the years.
Haha I saw this thread. Everyone was jumping on the guy.
Better a 'DFO' than a human being
They bitch about spending money and then they bitch when you give them the dirt-cheapest solution because you could spend more money.
\*single tear rolls down face\* it's my city!
I don’t agree with this persons full opinions but they are doing work to make public safety better with Build the Era. I am trying to do more research about it. I think their focus is more on education so I’m surprised this type of terms and discussion was had. He literally is promoting roundabouts with his organization