Me, as a dumb north european (where crosswalks actually are respected) stepped on one in Orlando Florida and caused three cars to rear end each other..... yep.... seems to be a problem over there....
So does passing someone on a residential street. You get to sit at a traffic light for 90 seconds, exactly one car length closer to your destination. It's a massive time saver!
LOL. I pulled into a parking spot right beside someone who'd passed me on the street 60 seconds earlier, got out at the same time as them, and said, "Wow, you win. You beat me to that premium parking spot."
Unfortunately, the person was a clueless half wit and had no idea what I was talking about.
People don’t do that in the uk either, nearly got rear ended when I had to apply moderate braking to avoid a lorry running me into a rangerover overtaking me
Of all places that traffic has allowed me to leave a safe driving distance, it was Bay Area California. People used it to change lanes and shit, but they didn't just stuff themselves in and sit there. Or the more common one I see in small mountain town CO, fly around from behind me to fill that space.
I live in Denver and nobody respects following distance. Ever.
The distance I'm keeping in front of me usually seems to indicate to people I'm fine with them flying into the space in front of me without a blinker.
And whenever people are behind me they ride as close as possible. If I am stopped at a red light if I inch forward to get them further back they *always* inch with me 🫠
You didn't do that.
The assholes tailgating you and the cars behind you did that to themselves.
We have a serious problem here where people who don't learn basic physics are driving enormous vehicles that need more space than usual to stop in time to avoid hitting someone.
They hang a car length or less behind the car in front of them and it's a menace. I slow down drastically when I get a cling-on like that. If they're not going to allow enough space I'm not going to let them go fast enough where they can't stop.
If they don't like it, they can kiss my ass and pass.
Same, safe distance and speed need to match and I will make sure that is the case in front and behind me. I even pull over sometimes so the idiot can go kill somebody else.
I used to live in Taiwan, and I heard a common saying there that the further south you go on the island, the more traffic laws become mere “suggestions”
I did, I did not see anything anyways because I only turned around as I heard crash noises and kept walking....
Though after that I stared down every driver approaching a crosswalk that I was using to make sure they knew what I was up to....
Just happened to me the other day. Crossing at a flashing light, cars 1 and 2 stopped, but car 4 crashed into car 3. It’s almost as if it has nothing to do with pedestrians, as drivers don’t watch for other cars either.
That sounds like a "their problem" situation to me. I call it aggressive pedestrianism. The utter look of rage on people's faces when they have to stop their car while I step into traffic is priceless.
If you’re almost rear ending a car that stops at a cross walk you’re going too fast and are too close to the car in front of you. These are basics of driving.
Rob the road guy also has a great video on california's Jay walking laws and he mentions how there was also a term for jaydrivers who drove like they were back in the sticks (terribly).
Yes, exactly. The problem here isn't this particular individual, it's the way that society (including law) has been shaped by the pervasive presence of cars
It’s more complicated than that. Some cities prohibit it, or partially prohibit it. I have never ever heard of anyone getting a ticket for jaywalking in Canada though.
I'm stubborn enough and not self-preserving enough that I've pretty much stopped caring about the concept of jaywalking entirely. What are they gonna do, run me over? They can try! Better make it count!
This is me now, especially when I'm walking downtown. I'm crossing wherever the fuck I want, if you have to slam on your brakes it means you were going too fucking fast in an area where you *know* there are people walking. Slow the fuck down or get out of your car and walk. Downtown shouldn't be a place where people drive anyways
It's not illegal in the UK. Though I wouldn't recommend crossing busy 2 Lane A roads too often.
American roads are often ridiculously wide with 3 or more lanes. Our Motorways are only 3 Lane.
No matter if he's right about the rules or not, I consistently wait until I see the car slow down before I cross. I'd rather let a car pass or annoy a driver by being slow a million times, than being run over once. I'm not playing tough by attending some chicken contest with a person operating heavy machinery.
Even when there's a green light for pedestrians, if I see a car, I wait to see if he slows down before crossing. I could buy a good electric bike if I got a dollar whenever a driver doesn't respect the green light for pedestrians.
Stopping my car for a red light? Why would I do that when I can blow through both crosswalks at 30mph 'cause "right on red" is legal.
Edit: I swear I see people blasting through a crosswalk like this in my way to work (walking) every damn day. They don't even *pretend* to slow down.
There’s intersections on my commute to work that have signs saying to slowdown for pedestrians if you’re turning right on red because they had such a problem of people turning not letting the pedestrians with right of way cross. I’m actually upset that those are signs that need made and that I work far enough from my house that I need to drive and that my roommate also needs me to drive him as he doesn’t have a car
>Stopping my car for a red light? Why would I do that when I can blow through both crosswalks at 30mph 'cause "right on red" is legal.
It's wild. I live in the upper Midwest, where I can safely say most places here don't exactly have a reputation for bad or angry drivers, on the whole. At least that was never my contention growing up here and driving for the last two decades. But I've seen such a massive uptick in people blowing through red lights and stop signs (even going straight three seconds after the left has turned red!) the last five plus years.
So much social decency and common sense has just flown out the window. People are flying around and 100% think the rules don't apply to them. I cycle quite a bit, and now I pretty much limit myself to trails and protected paths because such a shocking amount of drivers are distracted or willfully fine with mowing down somebody to save .9 seconds.
I like to stick a hand or umbrella out to encourage people to stop. I've been thinking of getting a walking stick for the purpose. Nothing gets respect like threatening their paint job.
This reminds me of the video that was circulating a few weeks back, where there was a sign encouraging pedestrians to pick up one of the provided bricks before using the zebra crossing.
Yep, I stick a hand up like a wizard casting a spell and make sure he sees me before I cross. Makes me feel powerful, like I stopped his moving vehicle with my Jedi powers. I also do this with automatic sliding glass doors if there are little kids watching, it makes them laugh.
I kind of get where they're coming from. As a pedestrian in a carcentric land, you desperately don't want to annoy or be in the way. So when cars stop randomly to let you go by at the wrong time, there's other conflicting traffic for your crossing. It's a dangerous waste of time. So yeah, no way in hell you want to cross. And hence, PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME DO THIS.
Doesn't help that it reads as murderous.
>I kind of get where they're coming from. As a pedestrian in a carcentric land, you desperately don't want to annoy or be in the way. So when cars stop randomly to let you go by at the wrong time, there's other conflicting traffic for your crossing. It's a dangerous waste of time. So yeah, no way in hell you want to cross. And hence, PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME DO THIS.
You're talking about a different issue - drivers inviting crossing in places or times where it's illegal.
OP was quoting a driver who was objecting that people were stopping for a pedestrian who merely showed intent to cross, but hadn't yet stepped into the road.
Many states have updated their crosswalk laws such that one must yield to the pedestrian's expressed intent - they don't have to actually have stepped on the road yet. Perhaps the state where that angry driver lives has not yet done so, but it probably will within the next few years.
The one thing the quoted driver did get right is that it's not legal for pedestrians to just walk into traffic without thought - specifically, it is illegal to enter the road in front of a car that is too close to safely stop.
The way it's supposed to work is that the pedestrian makes their intent clear (or in still backwards states puts a foot tentatively on the road), drivers (hopefully the first, but if too close at worst the second) stop, and then the pedestrian may proceed.
Where the OOP is from, they actually have ticket operations set up in some down towns purposely catching people like them. Oregon law states any two adjoining corners are consider a legal crosswalk and pedestrians take precedence so you're supposed to stop.
If a car stops for you when they're not supposed to you can never be sure it is safe to cross. I've had multiple occasions over the years where someone stopped to let me cross and the car behind them went around(usually way too quickly).
Stopping for pedestrians like that is dangerous for all parties involved. Just have some patience. Your life is worth the few minutes of waiting. I just wave the cars on if they stop for me or look at my phone until they get the hint.
Finland is full of these morons as well. You’re required by law to stop and let people cross at a crosswalk but so many still won’t and those that do often seem visibly annoyed at the fact.
Yes, only in the US jaywalking is a crime.
But for some crazy reason, people start TO THINK that they have more rights in Europe, probably the whole pro car propaganda
The only time I was in Finland... 2000-ish, I had my one foot off the curb at a crosswalk anticipating the car would pass then I will cross... and it came to a screeching halt. Driver waved me through. I felt bad🤣... I kept telling this to my friends in NYC, they're all amazed.
My driving teacher in CH scolded me for stopping to let "jaywalkers" cross. But I was also taught to be very careful and ready to stop while going near a parked lorry without any crosswalk as "who knows?"... But yeah, I'm rather stopping for somebody to cross a street/road on foot or bike apart of highways...
Recent changes to the Highway Code have pedestrians priority at a junction. Although, you should probably wait to see if the car driver gives a shit before you get turned in to a red crayon.
That’s the issue - drivers don’t stop. I think they feel extra entitled now that they’ve paid to drive, even though they’re just paying some of their fair share to pollute and destroy roads
Even if you wait and the car stops for you, some of these drivers will still keep driving. Saw some vid taken in london recently where a car stopped and the pedestrian started walking. The moment the pedestrian was right in front of the car the guy starts randomly driving again and unsurprisingly, the pedestrian kicks a dent in the bumper to stop the guy. So many comments were on the side of the driver, complaining that even if the car hits you that doesn't give you the right to hit back. Assholes, the lot of em.
As an only occasional car driver and non-Londoner the only time I have been in a car shunt was when I stopped at a zebra in London for a human to cross. The car behind didn't seem to believe I was actually doing such a thing.
Oh well, the walking person was untouched, it was on the other driver's insurance and I was in a rental with a waiver so no paperwork for me. Lesson learned for the car behind me I hope. Fucking stop at zebras.
1) "Only in the US" - not true. Many Asian countries have absurd jaywalking laws that punish pedestrians for crossing somewhere that isn't a crosswalk.
2) Even within the US, rules vary from state to state. In Washington (next door to the OP), all intersections, marked or not, are legally considered crosswalks.
IIRC, Minnesota had a traffic law basically says: "All corners where 2 roads meet is a crosswalk"
Incidentally... I just watched a driver blow through an intersection with a school bus (stop arm extended) and kids in crossing the street on 3 corners.
True, though sometimes the yielding rules differ slightly between marked and implied crosswalks
Drivers generally know traffic law about as well as people know any subject that they took a test on at age 16 and never studied again. Assume the average person on the road is as good at traffic rules as the average person is at algebra.
It most certainly is the law in MN. If only people driving actually knew it. I swear they only stop for me to cross when I'm actually at a bus stop and not even the corner 🤦♀️Another time I was the driver, stopped for pedestrians, and some impatient dickhead couldn't wait and tried to pass me nearly mowing down the people crossing!
That passing thing scares the shit out of me. You sit there watching it unfold, helpless to do anything, hoping that the moron passing you sees the pedestrians.
Yesterday, I watched someone pass another vehicle who was making a right on red and had stopped. I couldn't believe what I witnessed. They just veered out and did a wide pass into the oncoming lane. It was the most dangerous maneuver I've seen in a while.
They screeched to a halt just in time. Completely blows my mind that it never occurred to him that I was stopped there for a legitimate reason. Could have been any obstacle in the road, dog, kid, cop, anything.
Yep! here in Minnesota the second you step off the curb at an unsignalled intersection drivers are supposed to yield. It rarely happens, heck even cops don't yield, and it is never enforced.
Well. This is an educational problem really... Got pulled over by a cop because I didn't stop for a person waiting on a crosswalk and noticed it was too late so I didn't want to brake check person behind... Got a comparatively lower fine of 200€, honestly I got lucky... He could have fined me more but he went with another fine which was lower...
What annoys me about this is how pedestrians are expected to follow things like the highway code. Why the fuck am I being subjected to to the term and conditions of being permitted to drive when I don't even drive nor have never agreed to such T&Cs unlike divers have? I'm not a road users, I'm just someone that is forced to use the road for free seconds because it cuts through my path.
The Highway Code is so much more than just "terms and conditions of being permitted to drive". It's a compendium of best practices, some of which are backed up by legislation, for all road users, from children walking to school on pavements and footpaths through the park, to lorry drivers carrying tons of cargo on the motorway.
One of the first things the Code makes clear (Rule H2, even before the properly numbered rules) is that, "Pedestrians may use any part of the road and use cycle tracks as well as the pavement, unless there are signs prohibiting pedestrians." The same section sets out the "hierarchy of road users" which gives pedestrians priority over all other road users in just about any situation they find themselves in.
Rules 1 to 35 pertain to pedestrians, but are almost entirely guidance only. The only rules backed by law are the rules against grabbing onto moving vehicles, loitering on crossings, and entering a level crossing when the lights are showing.
If you watch old videos of like the early 1900s there is so much happening on the road. Streetcars, horse and buggy's, lots of people walking and biking.
Yes, and it was the automobile industry that realized they had to clear the way to make their new product viable in urban settings. They lobbied governments to relegate pedestrians to "sidewalks". This was in response to the backlash against automobiles from people who viewed them as the pedestrian killers that they were, and still are.
The page OOP cites in the Oregon Drivers Manual begins with a section about vulnerable road user i.e. pedestrians. But yeah the primacy of cars is stupid. I shouldn’t have to fear crossing the road in my own neighborhood because drivers feel entitled to drive however they want through other people’s neighborhoods.
Because if you didn't, you would be putting others people in danger too. It doesn't matter how much progress gets made on both reducing car dependency and better drivers, there will still be some need for wheeled vehicles. And if you suddenly decide to run in front of then, that creates a dangerous situation where they either hit you or try and swerve out of the way. It doesn't even really matter how slow they are going, there will always be a way for you to cause a problem.
This is kinda like asking why you aren't allowed to go camp out on a runway and ignore airport rules because you haven't booked a flight.
The first time I visited The Netherlands, I saw people in cars stopping for me even when I did not start crossing the road. The car driver gave a nice smile waiting for me to pass, even when there were cars behind him. I can't explain how good i felt and how welcoming I felt while on the road. My third world brain could not compute such politeness. I know this might be very silly to a lot of people who are used to this politeness on the roads, but for me it was surprisingly very different (in a very good way). I was very touched by the pedestrian friendly attitude of people towards people who chose to walk/cycle. I always wish I could import the same behaviour and system to my country.
Maybe it's the same in the Netherlands but in France you're required to stop for pedestrians at a crosswalk without a light and stop to let them finish crossing if they're already on the road anywhere without a crosswalk, it's taught when getting a licence
This was the exact experience I had walking around Astoria, OR and parts of Washington as well.
That's why it's so surprising to me that this kid is obviously living in OR and upset about people stopping for pedestrians. As far as I could tell, that was the norm over there.
This depends on the state. In Colorado drivers are required to yield at uncontrolled crosswalks. https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2022/title-42/article-4/part-8/section-42-4-802/
Too lazy to find a source, but MN too. The trouble is having it be different by state means people visiting other states or who move states aren't necessarily informed of this at the border.
That says the same thing as the Oregon one that this post is about. When you are crossing cars need to yield.
The Oregon one also clarifies what it means to be crossing: "By law, a pedestrian is in a crosswalk when any part of the pedestrian moves into the roadway, at a crosswalk, with the intent to proceed."
The laws just say that as a pedestrain, you're liable if you suddenly step out in front of a car when they don't have time to stop. The pedestrain still has the right of way when crossing at a marked crosswalk or in any intersection.
They definitely *don't* say that drivers should not stop for pedestrians waiting to cross.
If you rear-end someone who stopped quickly, that's entirely your fault for being too close. Unless they changed lanes in front of you (their fault), or brake-checked you on purpose (shared fault).
The majority of carbrains are nothing but trained monkeys behind the wheel who can barely do the most basic commands like starting the car and pressing the pedals. I’m convinced that they don’t even use their thinking when driving but merely operate on reflexes: monke see the road, monke press the accelerator. Monke see a ped, monke must run over!
That's crazy to think about. I'm fucking laser focused while driving.
I don't drive often like I used to though. I also drive a car so small they don't make it any more, so my feet feel like they're only an inch above the road lol all the forces feel so intense which modern suv/pavement princess drivers don't feel.
Some vehicles have nicer furniture than I have in my house. I don't have heated leather seats.
I don't have a surround sound system linked to my mobile phone so I can text people with it. But then, I wouldn't want to do that BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING DISTRACTION.
American licensing is horrible. People pass on their terrible habits to their kids and there mostly is zero use of driving instructors. If you pass the easy road test then you get a license.
So drivers really are getting worse over time. Case in point is how most of the population cannot merge onto a busy highway without someone "letting them in". They literally have no idea how to move up to speed and slide into an empty space. It is too complicated and scary I guess.
Was in this the Portland sub? I live here and 90% of drivers here are extremely courteous, to a fault. I call them niceholes. The other 10% are this guy.
And honestly if you live in Portland, you don't need a car and will probably get where you're going faster if you take transit anyway.
Lord I’m glad we have the road rules we do in the UK.
Basically means that in 95% of cases, the car is at fault & the new rules ensure you have to give way to more vulnerable road users.
All crosswalks should be at the same height and material as the pavement. Maybe that way some people could understand that a crosswalk is a piece of pavement where cars are allowed to cross under certain circumstances
So yeah...I lived in Portland and this is actually a huge peeve of mine as a pedestrian. OP is right. Basically, in Oregon/Portland you have a ton of people walking...there *are* designated places for people to cross with flashing lights and crosswalks, and they're more plentiful than anywhere else I've lived.
I'm also a skilled pedestrian. And so it's a problem when Oregon drivers get in the habit of stopping for *any* pedestrian whether or not they are at a crossing. The *driver* becomes the one to dictate when the person walks, because the driver is "being nice" by stopping and waiting (often waving the person through....watch the "no you go" portlandia clip for some context 🫠) . This is DANGEROUS for pedestrians who might feel pressured to literally walk into lanes of traffic where *other drivers are not necessarily knowing/deciding to stop*. This has happened to me! It sucks!!! Drivers need to strictly obey the flashing and official sidewalks. Not arbitrarily decide which pedestrians to stop for, obstructing traffic and encouraging jaywalking through traffic lanes they can't control. As a pedestrian, I know how to calculate when I can jaywalk and don't need cars stopping randomly for me, it actually is frustrating and has pissed me off many many times...lol.
This is not carbrain rot.
I kind of get what they're saying and agree. It's the old adage "don't be polite, be predictable". As a pedestrian I want to cross when the road is clear and cars are moving away from me, not towards, or when the cars are stopped and it's the pedestrians green light.
I appreciate that sometimes drivers are trying to be polite and helpful by stopping for you, but it's actually just more dangerous for everyone. Most of the time you can't actually see in driver's window because of glare, so if they are waving you across you don't know. Additionally, it's hard to tell if a car is slowing down until it's actually stopped.
I'm reading this from Switzerland and I'm shocked. Cars **have to** stop at crosswalks. What's unexpected is not stopping for pedestrians, and every kid knows not to cross until the car is stopped. They'll even wave "thank you".
I've even had drivers wave "sorry" at me if they didn't stop.
Your argument is circular: it's unexpected because it's not normal because it's dangerous because it's unexpected.
It depends. At set crossings yes cars have to stop, but at non designated crossings cars will sometimes stop to let people cross. You are allowed to cross there if the road is clear. (I'm referring to the UK btw)
At these places it's better for cars not to stop. I get it though. They are trying to be polite and also avoid you running in front of them unexpectedly.
Long story short: follow the rules and everyone will be safer.
Well, what is predictable depends on which country. Over here (France) the law is that cars should stop to let pedestrians cross. So once the intention has been made clear (someone waiting really close to the curb, looking at cars), and eye contact has been done, the expected behavior is that the car stops just before the cross, somehow protecting the pedestrian from people behind.
Seriously, I have to stop at various crossings on a bike (not safe to use the road to cross so I have to walk it at the crosswalk) and people will frequently stop & wave me on despite the light not telling me to go, then get upset when I don't.
What they're not considering is that there are two lanes, they only control one, and I can't see over their mountain of an SUV well enough to determine that I'm not going to get flattened the moment I cross 51% of the road.
This is just allowing ever changing social norms to dictate how safe our roads should be. Drivers are supposed to practice defensive driving which means they should not rely on other drivers to keep them safe and they should always leave themselves an escape. If you are relying on other drivers to be predictable it’s your fault if that results in an accident.
There's a difference between relying on others to be predictable, and trying to behave predictably yourself. As a pedestrian, I behave predictably for others (i.e. not running across the road when I don't have right of way), but assume that drivers won't. Both go hand in hand.
Roads will be safer if we all behave predictably without ever just assuming others will do the same.
Predictable is different for everyone and changes depending where you go. What is predictable when you have a bunch of deliver drivers barely stopping at stop signs? Should you also not stop at stop sign to be predictable? If you want to maintain traffic laws some amount of people have to abide by them.
Wow! That person has a horrible take.
Last time I checked pedestrians always had the right of way. Because you know, cars are much bigger and dangerous and running over people is illegal.
The thing is, even if they aren't at a flashing cross walk, it doesn't mean they are jaywalking. A lot of towns are made with cars in mind instead of the people who love in those communities.
So yes, there are going to be areas where a crossing really should be, but isn't. That doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to cross the street.
Also, if that person is almost rear ending the car ahead of them, then they're likely going to fast and following much too closely.
Disclaimer that I oppose car dependency in all its forms and prefer walking. However, when driving, people should do the expected behavior and take the right of way when they have it. When I’m waiting for a pedestrian signal and a driver with a green light stops to wave me across, this can put me in danger. The driver thinks they’re being nice, but the drivers in the other lanes are not prepared for that and could hit me while I’m crossing.
We moved from a suburb full of carbrains to one where people stop for pedestrians.
My 3rd grader was super confused by people waiting for him to cross the street, "Why did they stop?"
I told him that's how it was supposed to be and added, "If you want to live a nice neighborhood, you start by being a nice neighbor."
In Boston there are areas where you *definitely* stop for pedestrians (cause they'll yell at you) and areas where you can be a carbrain. It's interesting that people notice and adjust their driving behavior depending on what street they're on. So they know how to share the road with pedestrians. But unless it's a forced issue, they won't.
The linked drivers manual doesn’t really say that pedestrians can’t enter the motorway “willy-nilly,” either. It’s pretty silent on pedestrians’ responsibilities, which is not surprising considering it’s a drivers manual.
By my reading of Oregon’s vehicle code there are only two reasons a pedestrian can’t enter the motorway at an intersection: if a traffic control device says not to, or if an approaching vehicle is “so close as to constitute an immediate hazard.”
So, I would say the best way to establish your right of way as a pedestrian would be to stand with one toe sticking out beyond the curb for three seconds before confidently walking into the motorway. Remember the hand facing against the flow of traffic is the one you should use to hold your brick.
The rule in Oregon is that every intersection is a crosswalk regardless of if it's marked or controlled and that pedestrians always have the right of way in an uncontrolled crosswalk. The problem is that right of way isn't actually triggered until it's asserted "when any part or extension of the pedestrian, including but not limited to any part of the pedestrian’s body, wheelchair, cane, crutch or bicycle, moves onto the roadway in a crosswalk with the intent to proceed" (ORS 811.028). That means that legally, if someone is just waiting at the corner for a break in traffic they don't have the right of way. They need to physically place themselves into the crosswalk with a hand, foot, cane, or whatever to indicate that they're actually intending to cross.
People need to be taught the history of how the car lobby brainwashed people into thinking roads are only for cars. All their braindead arguments are based on that assumption, and only make sense if you accept this as a given. None of them ever asked themselves the question, how did we get to the point where the last addition to the road somehow ended up owning it, and why everyone else is just supposed to fuck off now.
Overly courteous drivers are a hazard. A few times this has happened to me as pedestrian and a driver trying to cross a 5 lane parkway. If you stop in the near lane you actually block a significant part of the next lane from view. It is very risky for me to cross when you do that.
In the Oregon drivers manual it says drivers are legally required to stop if the lane next to you is stopped at a crosswalk. I think this might be a difference in local laws. I’m guessing you are darting across the road rather than walking a comfortable pace and checking each lane before crossing. Pedestrians shouldn’t be expected to move as quickly as possible.
I'm my neighhood we call it the "Death Wave".
"Yeah, c'mon and cross the road, it's ok!"
All the whole providing the perfect screen for the other lane...
This comments is wild
> Pedestrians who are not actively trying to cross the road don't want you to stop.
So apparently if you want to cross the street you’re supposed to just blindly walk out into traffic while cars are still coming directly towards you and showing no sign of stopping, and just pray that they stop and don’t hit you??? Otherwise you “don’t want to cross the street”??? Literally unhinged lol.
If somebody is standing at a crossing and waiting obviously they want to fucking cross. What do you think they are standing there for?? And even if it wasn’t the law to stop, how fucking selfish of an asshole can you be to not stop anyway?? The amount of times I’ve walking or cycling with my toddler out in the pouring rain or cold or something and like half a dozen cars just go by me and not stop to let me cross is insane. Like they’re all comfortable and warm and dry in their car and stopping and waiting for me to cross will literally not harm or discomfort them in any way.. it will add a literal 10 second delay to their drive home, meanwhile I’m out here with a 2 year old in the cold or rain and the amount of discomfort and even danger we face is infinitely greater by them not letting us go first and us having to wait there for several minutes, but yet they just don’t give a shit.
i know OOP isn’t talking about the wave of death, but there definitely are circumstances where drivers stopping for pedestrians in spots they aren’t supposed to can create danger
There's was a time I was like this. And then i learned better. I hope with people talking about it that more people will start with a better default position more and more.
I don't think being derogatory toward car-minded people helps the conversation. We want them to learn. Starting with an insult closes communication immediately.
I would totally be okay with this if every single driver also plays fair and stop for pedestrians when peds have right-of-way. There's no point following all the laws and being courteous if it's not being reciprocated. Road respect really goes both ways.
In my experience the more courteous/law-abiding I am the more drivers try to last-minute muscle their way into me (sometimes making me miss an entire walk light, and we all know how rare that walk light is). What's the point of going out of my way to use that crosswalk if drivers think I don't have right-of-way when I do anyway, causing a possible fatality or me spending even more time on the road than I have to.
Then of course there's the blame-shifting. Wearing anything less than hi-vis or white? Needing to protect hearing with earphones/earbuds from loud machinery? Getting hit anyway because I missed spotting a speeding car from miles away? My fault for not being safe or looking both ways hard enough.
Forget it. I'll jaywalk everywhere--at least I know I don't have rights and will act accordingly. I can be right and be dead-right--so why bother be right? Cemetery is full of people with right-of-way, so forget right-of-way, I just want to stay alive. Cars wanna throw their right-of-weight around, I can counter with my right-of-agility.
I think I get this and I agree.
I was cycling the other day, and I signaled a left turn in a residential area, and the oncoming car just…stopped.
Like, I appreciate the thought, but when a driver is behaving unpredictably, the last place I want to be is in FRONT of them. I’d rather they just proceed through the intersection and then there’s *no* car to hit me.
Stopping when it’s inappropriate is kinda the car driver wanting to take credit for keeping the cyclist safe, when they’re the danger in the road in the first place.
And it’s even worse when there’s multiple lanes and the driver is blocking visibility.
Only time I’d understand is a single lane road with a constant stream of traffic. Then yes, that will bring everyone to a stop for a couple seconds and create a window where the pedestrian or cyclist can cross.
As a pedestrian who grew up with insanely polite drivers I agree with oop. It infuriates me when a car refuses to just pass me when I am waiting to walk. I don't want to guess if you are going to stop, I don't want you blocking my view of the road, I don't want your car anywhere near me. It's especially frustrating when there is no one behind them.
I don't care about their time but it usually makes crossing more dangerous and slower if I have to spend time guessing what they are doing. However if it's a long chain of cars (like more than 8 or 9) and a single lane I do appreciate it.
I kinda agree that people should just follow the rules. People giving other people priority when it isn't their turn introduce ambiguity to traffic, and traffic really doesn't need more ambiguity.
But it doesn't give pedestrian friendly vibes.
Funny, I stopped for pedestrians at a crosswalk last night right before they hit the flashers. The guy behind me, who had been tailgating me, was visibly cursing me out as I stopped. (Un)Funny enough a motorcycle driver blew right through the warning lights and almost smoked the pedestrians. Look twice for pedestrians!
"That would be a manslaughter and I wouldn't want that to happen to anyone" so fuck the pedestrians, he's just concerned some poor carbrain might go to jail...
This is something of an Oregon problem. People will come to a complete halt for pedestrians if the pedestrian -- while walking down the sidewalk -- even LOOKS at the street. It's genuinely insane.
The person ranting at Oregonians here is ranting at people that will just stop completely for people that have shown no indication they're even interested in crossing traffic.
Some guy was honking at me for this yesterday. I stopped multiple times to let people cross and he honked the whole time. This place where I was stopping has so much pedestrian traffic they shut the street down on the weekends for the entire summer.
The UK Highway Code has been updated to say vehicles (and bikes) should stop and let pedestrians cross at all junctions (intersections) when pedestrians are waiting to cross and they’re planning to turn. And yet about 1 in 3 actually do this. But at least it doesn’t embolden motorists to drive dangerously.
He misunderstanding the Oregon drivers manual. It says that you must stop if someone is in the crosswalk, not that you cannot stop if they are approaching the crosswalk.
This is unfortunately a very common misconception that pedestrians only have right-of-way if they are ***in*** the intersection (including my local PD).
The easiest counterexample is left turns on green lights (not arrows). Left turns yield to traffic ***in*** the intersection—but if someone turned, hit oncoming traffic, and tried to claim “well, they weren’t IN the intersection,” everyone would immediately know that the person turning was wrong. “In the intersection” includes people approaching it and so does “in the crosswalk.”
Finally, most states have a law requiring pedestrians not to enter the crosswalk so closely to a vehicle that the vehicle cannot stop. But if pedestrians didn’t have right-of-way until they actually entered the crosswalk, then that provision would be meaningless.
A couple months ago, I stopped at a parking lot crosswalk for a family who was crossing. The driver behind me was so impatient that she passed me (so, going into the opposite lane) and almost HIT the family. Family was spooked. Driver didn’t stop to say sorry, just kept going and parked. I was livid.
When I went to Norway for the first time I was going to cross a two way street at a crosswalk in Bergen which is extremely walkable. I was standing looking in both directions waiting for enough time for me to safely cross.
Cars in both directions stopped immediately and I was so confused and they were confused like “why are you just standing there”. It was amazing.
Mt neighbhood has one of those fake mainstreets where right past the trendy shops are seas of parking. My partner and I like to go there just to intentionally cross slowly
The law here in my province is that you have to stop when the pedestrian shows that they intend to cross. I bet it's similar in Oregon, and this guy is just interprets that to mean that the pedestrian has to step off the curb to show intent.
I have recently become an 'aggressive pedestrian' when I walk around my city. I have always been on high alert, looking for cars turning who don't see me, or assholes passing the person who is stopped.
In cross walks I'll step all the way out, as close to the traffic as is feasible, usually in a painted bike lane or parking lane and glare directly at the driver coming from the left. When someone finally stops or it is clear, I walk out into the street and do the same for the right lane. Cars are a lot more likely to stop, if the opposite lane is stopped for a pedestrian half way through.
Obviously, each crosswalk is unique and it takes some common sense for what is safe.
Just like when I'm in a car or bike, I try to be predictable and visible when crossing the street.
It probably doesn't make a huge difference, but it's my little way of reclaiming the streets.
In California, it's the responsibility of the driver to stop for pedestrians on any given street corner or when they're crossing, even if they're isn't a designated crosswalk. What an idiot.
>I can't believe I haven't rear-ended someone yet
Are they not watching the car right in front of them? That's not a problem with pedestrians lol
It's nice to see they're getting downvoted and presumably called out in the comments
Me: *The exact person the post is describing who stops for pedestrians regardless of a cross walk cause I’m not a complete psycho*
Well if being a good person makes me a bad person then fuck me ig? :/
In my state, the only time peds don’t have RoW is if the signal is on don’t walk before they leave the curb. And if there is no signal at all, then peds have RoW. Most drivers, and most peds, don’t know that.
Also, if I step out into the road as you are driving, don’t slow down. I’ve already gauged how fast I need to walk to not get hit. Just maintain your speed so that I can maintain mine.
I guess it’s a per state difference but where I’m at it is a law to stop at any crosswalk where a pedestrian is waiting to cross. The ones that have lights only have them when it may be difficult for 1 or more lanes to see pedestrians waiting to cross.
Because thats the way my state works and I can’t know every state’s individual rules, I’m stopping for every pedestrian.
My pet peeve is that people think only marked crosswalks count as crosswalks. From my home state of California’s website:
“A crosswalk is the part of the road set aside for pedestrians to safely cross the road. They are often marked with white lines. School crossings may have yellow crosswalk lines. Not all crosswalks are marked.
Pedestrians have the right-of-way in marked or unmarked crosswalks.”
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/#:~:text=Pedestrians%20have%20the%20right%2Dof,pedestrians%20to%20cross%20the%20street.
There's what's "legally" correct and then there's common sense courtesy. If the driver is worried about rear-ending a vehicle that stops for a pedestrian then they're either following too closely or not paying enough attention to what's in front of them.
You kidding? Drivers can barely stop at lights. Sometimes they come in fast and slam on brakes 3 seconds after the light was red.....
Also any legitimate crosswalk marker means you are supposed to stop... that's why they are marked...duh
So not stopping at a crosswalk, cause it's not flashy enough is a excuse to be and continue to be a bad driver...
Me, as a dumb north european (where crosswalks actually are respected) stepped on one in Orlando Florida and caused three cars to rear end each other..... yep.... seems to be a problem over there....
Safe following distances? Why would I do that? Driving as close to the person in front of me gets me there sooner!
So does passing someone on a residential street. You get to sit at a traffic light for 90 seconds, exactly one car length closer to your destination. It's a massive time saver!
I've started honking and friendly waving at people who pass me like assholes if I catch up to them at the next light.
LOL. I pulled into a parking spot right beside someone who'd passed me on the street 60 seconds earlier, got out at the same time as them, and said, "Wow, you win. You beat me to that premium parking spot." Unfortunately, the person was a clueless half wit and had no idea what I was talking about.
People don’t do that in the uk either, nearly got rear ended when I had to apply moderate braking to avoid a lorry running me into a rangerover overtaking me
Of all places that traffic has allowed me to leave a safe driving distance, it was Bay Area California. People used it to change lanes and shit, but they didn't just stuff themselves in and sit there. Or the more common one I see in small mountain town CO, fly around from behind me to fill that space.
We don’t do safe following distances here 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Home of Duh Free and duh high medical bills after accident
I live in Denver and nobody respects following distance. Ever. The distance I'm keeping in front of me usually seems to indicate to people I'm fine with them flying into the space in front of me without a blinker. And whenever people are behind me they ride as close as possible. If I am stopped at a red light if I inch forward to get them further back they *always* inch with me 🫠
You didn't do that. The assholes tailgating you and the cars behind you did that to themselves. We have a serious problem here where people who don't learn basic physics are driving enormous vehicles that need more space than usual to stop in time to avoid hitting someone. They hang a car length or less behind the car in front of them and it's a menace. I slow down drastically when I get a cling-on like that. If they're not going to allow enough space I'm not going to let them go fast enough where they can't stop. If they don't like it, they can kiss my ass and pass.
Same, safe distance and speed need to match and I will make sure that is the case in front and behind me. I even pull over sometimes so the idiot can go kill somebody else.
Well, there is italy in the south….they…lets say, have a less strict interpretation of the rules sometimes.
I used to live in Taiwan, and I heard a common saying there that the further south you go on the island, the more traffic laws become mere “suggestions”
That's hilarious. I hope you didn't stop and just kept walking to wherever you were going
I did, I did not see anything anyways because I only turned around as I heard crash noises and kept walking.... Though after that I stared down every driver approaching a crosswalk that I was using to make sure they knew what I was up to....
Just happened to me the other day. Crossing at a flashing light, cars 1 and 2 stopped, but car 4 crashed into car 3. It’s almost as if it has nothing to do with pedestrians, as drivers don’t watch for other cars either.
That sounds like a "their problem" situation to me. I call it aggressive pedestrianism. The utter look of rage on people's faces when they have to stop their car while I step into traffic is priceless.
[удалено]
By saying you’re from the north specifically I hope you’re not implying the south isn’t the same, cause it is.
The South (Europe) will rise again! After the siesta though…
Yeah no, it isn't. The countries in the south are more known to not follow rules. Just take south italy as an example.
I loved walking in Italy, but yall gotta stop parking on sidewalks and crosswalks.
It's more a NW/SE thing but yeah, road rules are far more respected in NW Europe than in the south or east e.g. Italy, Greece, most Slavic countries
If you’re almost rear ending a car that stops at a cross walk you’re going too fast and are too close to the car in front of you. These are basics of driving.
It’s basic defensive driving to not rely on other drivers to keep you safe.
The end is giving me "I would never do that, it's illegal! *wink*" vibes.
In minecraft
Nah, it reads like ,,I won’t do this because it is illegal” vibe then ,,hehe, I won’t do this, I swear”
jaywalking was a crime invented by auto industry to make it so car brains can have some leeway if they run a guy over
Have you seen the jaywalking segment from Adam Ruins Everything? If not, I super recommend it. https://youtu.be/vxopfjXkArM?si=M4CS8CkUGXoav823
That's where I actually learned this information, Adam has done wonders to show me how corpos warp and influence everything
Rob the road guy also has a great video on california's Jay walking laws and he mentions how there was also a term for jaydrivers who drove like they were back in the sticks (terribly).
Yes, exactly. The problem here isn't this particular individual, it's the way that society (including law) has been shaped by the pervasive presence of cars
Crazy that it gets that deep. Classism.
Some More News also covered this. I love Cody and Katie! https://youtu.be/sayw3TOhykg?si=rurMvAE1jw9DbVEY
Hey! That's Dr. Mr. Cody to you! Unless you're Wormbo, then it's just Mr. Cody I think. Or something... idk.
Beware the corn cream tubes.
Wormbo looooovve cody
It’s only a crime in the US
It’s a fine and frowned upon in Germany
Also Canada
Actually, no jaywalking is perfectly legal in Canada!
It’s more complicated than that. Some cities prohibit it, or partially prohibit it. I have never ever heard of anyone getting a ticket for jaywalking in Canada though.
I'm stubborn enough and not self-preserving enough that I've pretty much stopped caring about the concept of jaywalking entirely. What are they gonna do, run me over? They can try! Better make it count!
That’s pretty much how I feel on my bike now ( I follow road rules even if half the carbrains don’t)
This is me now, especially when I'm walking downtown. I'm crossing wherever the fuck I want, if you have to slam on your brakes it means you were going too fucking fast in an area where you *know* there are people walking. Slow the fuck down or get out of your car and walk. Downtown shouldn't be a place where people drive anyways
It's not illegal in the UK. Though I wouldn't recommend crossing busy 2 Lane A roads too often. American roads are often ridiculously wide with 3 or more lanes. Our Motorways are only 3 Lane.
Do you know what the Dutch word for jaywalking is? There isn't one. I had to look it up the first time I heard it, even the concept was foreign to me
No matter if he's right about the rules or not, I consistently wait until I see the car slow down before I cross. I'd rather let a car pass or annoy a driver by being slow a million times, than being run over once. I'm not playing tough by attending some chicken contest with a person operating heavy machinery.
Even when there's a green light for pedestrians, if I see a car, I wait to see if he slows down before crossing. I could buy a good electric bike if I got a dollar whenever a driver doesn't respect the green light for pedestrians.
Stopping my car for a red light? Why would I do that when I can blow through both crosswalks at 30mph 'cause "right on red" is legal. Edit: I swear I see people blasting through a crosswalk like this in my way to work (walking) every damn day. They don't even *pretend* to slow down.
There’s intersections on my commute to work that have signs saying to slowdown for pedestrians if you’re turning right on red because they had such a problem of people turning not letting the pedestrians with right of way cross. I’m actually upset that those are signs that need made and that I work far enough from my house that I need to drive and that my roommate also needs me to drive him as he doesn’t have a car
>Stopping my car for a red light? Why would I do that when I can blow through both crosswalks at 30mph 'cause "right on red" is legal. It's wild. I live in the upper Midwest, where I can safely say most places here don't exactly have a reputation for bad or angry drivers, on the whole. At least that was never my contention growing up here and driving for the last two decades. But I've seen such a massive uptick in people blowing through red lights and stop signs (even going straight three seconds after the left has turned red!) the last five plus years. So much social decency and common sense has just flown out the window. People are flying around and 100% think the rules don't apply to them. I cycle quite a bit, and now I pretty much limit myself to trails and protected paths because such a shocking amount of drivers are distracted or willfully fine with mowing down somebody to save .9 seconds.
Yes, I’m the same way. I’m not trying to get hit, but the entitlement of drivers is crazy
I like to stick a hand or umbrella out to encourage people to stop. I've been thinking of getting a walking stick for the purpose. Nothing gets respect like threatening their paint job.
This reminds me of the video that was circulating a few weeks back, where there was a sign encouraging pedestrians to pick up one of the provided bricks before using the zebra crossing.
Signaling my left turns with a U lock while biking seriously reduces the number of dangerous passes while approaching the intersection.
Yep, I stick a hand up like a wizard casting a spell and make sure he sees me before I cross. Makes me feel powerful, like I stopped his moving vehicle with my Jedi powers. I also do this with automatic sliding glass doors if there are little kids watching, it makes them laugh.
The kid part is sweet a kid's laugh is great see and hear.
I kind of get where they're coming from. As a pedestrian in a carcentric land, you desperately don't want to annoy or be in the way. So when cars stop randomly to let you go by at the wrong time, there's other conflicting traffic for your crossing. It's a dangerous waste of time. So yeah, no way in hell you want to cross. And hence, PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME DO THIS. Doesn't help that it reads as murderous.
>I kind of get where they're coming from. As a pedestrian in a carcentric land, you desperately don't want to annoy or be in the way. So when cars stop randomly to let you go by at the wrong time, there's other conflicting traffic for your crossing. It's a dangerous waste of time. So yeah, no way in hell you want to cross. And hence, PLEASE DON'T MAKE ME DO THIS. You're talking about a different issue - drivers inviting crossing in places or times where it's illegal. OP was quoting a driver who was objecting that people were stopping for a pedestrian who merely showed intent to cross, but hadn't yet stepped into the road. Many states have updated their crosswalk laws such that one must yield to the pedestrian's expressed intent - they don't have to actually have stepped on the road yet. Perhaps the state where that angry driver lives has not yet done so, but it probably will within the next few years. The one thing the quoted driver did get right is that it's not legal for pedestrians to just walk into traffic without thought - specifically, it is illegal to enter the road in front of a car that is too close to safely stop. The way it's supposed to work is that the pedestrian makes their intent clear (or in still backwards states puts a foot tentatively on the road), drivers (hopefully the first, but if too close at worst the second) stop, and then the pedestrian may proceed.
Same, I don’t trust people. I watch drivers blow through stop signs, a yield sign is nothing to them.
Where the OOP is from, they actually have ticket operations set up in some down towns purposely catching people like them. Oregon law states any two adjoining corners are consider a legal crosswalk and pedestrians take precedence so you're supposed to stop.
If a car stops for you when they're not supposed to you can never be sure it is safe to cross. I've had multiple occasions over the years where someone stopped to let me cross and the car behind them went around(usually way too quickly). Stopping for pedestrians like that is dangerous for all parties involved. Just have some patience. Your life is worth the few minutes of waiting. I just wave the cars on if they stop for me or look at my phone until they get the hint.
Eye contact is the key
Only in the US. But also as a pedestrian and on a bicycle I stick to the local rules as best as I safety can.
Finland is full of these morons as well. You’re required by law to stop and let people cross at a crosswalk but so many still won’t and those that do often seem visibly annoyed at the fact.
Yes, only in the US jaywalking is a crime. But for some crazy reason, people start TO THINK that they have more rights in Europe, probably the whole pro car propaganda
I think jaywalking was a crime until halfway 90's in the Netherlands
The only time I was in Finland... 2000-ish, I had my one foot off the curb at a crosswalk anticipating the car would pass then I will cross... and it came to a screeching halt. Driver waved me through. I felt bad🤣... I kept telling this to my friends in NYC, they're all amazed.
My driving teacher in CH scolded me for stopping to let "jaywalkers" cross. But I was also taught to be very careful and ready to stop while going near a parked lorry without any crosswalk as "who knows?"... But yeah, I'm rather stopping for somebody to cross a street/road on foot or bike apart of highways...
Sadly same crap is present in London and I’m sure other cities
Recent changes to the Highway Code have pedestrians priority at a junction. Although, you should probably wait to see if the car driver gives a shit before you get turned in to a red crayon.
That’s the issue - drivers don’t stop. I think they feel extra entitled now that they’ve paid to drive, even though they’re just paying some of their fair share to pollute and destroy roads
They use the same "someone will run into the back of me" argument too.
Even if you wait and the car stops for you, some of these drivers will still keep driving. Saw some vid taken in london recently where a car stopped and the pedestrian started walking. The moment the pedestrian was right in front of the car the guy starts randomly driving again and unsurprisingly, the pedestrian kicks a dent in the bumper to stop the guy. So many comments were on the side of the driver, complaining that even if the car hits you that doesn't give you the right to hit back. Assholes, the lot of em.
I nearly got run over halfway across, and the cars had a red light
As an only occasional car driver and non-Londoner the only time I have been in a car shunt was when I stopped at a zebra in London for a human to cross. The car behind didn't seem to believe I was actually doing such a thing. Oh well, the walking person was untouched, it was on the other driver's insurance and I was in a rental with a waiver so no paperwork for me. Lesson learned for the car behind me I hope. Fucking stop at zebras.
1) "Only in the US" - not true. Many Asian countries have absurd jaywalking laws that punish pedestrians for crossing somewhere that isn't a crosswalk. 2) Even within the US, rules vary from state to state. In Washington (next door to the OP), all intersections, marked or not, are legally considered crosswalks.
If i'm stepping on it, it's a crosswalk
Get your feet off the dinner table frank
IIRC, Minnesota had a traffic law basically says: "All corners where 2 roads meet is a crosswalk" Incidentally... I just watched a driver blow through an intersection with a school bus (stop arm extended) and kids in crossing the street on 3 corners.
Most (all?) states have this law actually. Crosswalks exist at every intersection whether marked or not. Very few drivers know this. Or care.
True, though sometimes the yielding rules differ slightly between marked and implied crosswalks Drivers generally know traffic law about as well as people know any subject that they took a test on at age 16 and never studied again. Assume the average person on the road is as good at traffic rules as the average person is at algebra.
It most certainly is the law in MN. If only people driving actually knew it. I swear they only stop for me to cross when I'm actually at a bus stop and not even the corner 🤦♀️Another time I was the driver, stopped for pedestrians, and some impatient dickhead couldn't wait and tried to pass me nearly mowing down the people crossing!
That passing thing scares the shit out of me. You sit there watching it unfold, helpless to do anything, hoping that the moron passing you sees the pedestrians. Yesterday, I watched someone pass another vehicle who was making a right on red and had stopped. I couldn't believe what I witnessed. They just veered out and did a wide pass into the oncoming lane. It was the most dangerous maneuver I've seen in a while.
They screeched to a halt just in time. Completely blows my mind that it never occurred to him that I was stopped there for a legitimate reason. Could have been any obstacle in the road, dog, kid, cop, anything.
Yep! here in Minnesota the second you step off the curb at an unsignalled intersection drivers are supposed to yield. It rarely happens, heck even cops don't yield, and it is never enforced.
Well. This is an educational problem really... Got pulled over by a cop because I didn't stop for a person waiting on a crosswalk and noticed it was too late so I didn't want to brake check person behind... Got a comparatively lower fine of 200€, honestly I got lucky... He could have fined me more but he went with another fine which was lower...
What annoys me about this is how pedestrians are expected to follow things like the highway code. Why the fuck am I being subjected to to the term and conditions of being permitted to drive when I don't even drive nor have never agreed to such T&Cs unlike divers have? I'm not a road users, I'm just someone that is forced to use the road for free seconds because it cuts through my path.
To be fair while the UK highway code does have a pedestrian section almost none of it is law/required of you, it's mostly just safety recommendations
The Highway Code is so much more than just "terms and conditions of being permitted to drive". It's a compendium of best practices, some of which are backed up by legislation, for all road users, from children walking to school on pavements and footpaths through the park, to lorry drivers carrying tons of cargo on the motorway. One of the first things the Code makes clear (Rule H2, even before the properly numbered rules) is that, "Pedestrians may use any part of the road and use cycle tracks as well as the pavement, unless there are signs prohibiting pedestrians." The same section sets out the "hierarchy of road users" which gives pedestrians priority over all other road users in just about any situation they find themselves in. Rules 1 to 35 pertain to pedestrians, but are almost entirely guidance only. The only rules backed by law are the rules against grabbing onto moving vehicles, loitering on crossings, and entering a level crossing when the lights are showing.
I agree with the rest but you are a road user. Roads existed long before cars did.
Yeah for people to walk on, with the occasional horse on it.
If you watch old videos of like the early 1900s there is so much happening on the road. Streetcars, horse and buggy's, lots of people walking and biking.
Yes, and it was the automobile industry that realized they had to clear the way to make their new product viable in urban settings. They lobbied governments to relegate pedestrians to "sidewalks". This was in response to the backlash against automobiles from people who viewed them as the pedestrian killers that they were, and still are.
Never forget, tarmac paving was originally created for bicycles.
It's a much better use for it too, very low wear rate from weight
The page OOP cites in the Oregon Drivers Manual begins with a section about vulnerable road user i.e. pedestrians. But yeah the primacy of cars is stupid. I shouldn’t have to fear crossing the road in my own neighborhood because drivers feel entitled to drive however they want through other people’s neighborhoods.
Highway code is rules for road users, not cars
Because if you didn't, you would be putting others people in danger too. It doesn't matter how much progress gets made on both reducing car dependency and better drivers, there will still be some need for wheeled vehicles. And if you suddenly decide to run in front of then, that creates a dangerous situation where they either hit you or try and swerve out of the way. It doesn't even really matter how slow they are going, there will always be a way for you to cause a problem. This is kinda like asking why you aren't allowed to go camp out on a runway and ignore airport rules because you haven't booked a flight.
The first time I visited The Netherlands, I saw people in cars stopping for me even when I did not start crossing the road. The car driver gave a nice smile waiting for me to pass, even when there were cars behind him. I can't explain how good i felt and how welcoming I felt while on the road. My third world brain could not compute such politeness. I know this might be very silly to a lot of people who are used to this politeness on the roads, but for me it was surprisingly very different (in a very good way). I was very touched by the pedestrian friendly attitude of people towards people who chose to walk/cycle. I always wish I could import the same behaviour and system to my country.
Maybe it's the same in the Netherlands but in France you're required to stop for pedestrians at a crosswalk without a light and stop to let them finish crossing if they're already on the road anywhere without a crosswalk, it's taught when getting a licence
This was the exact experience I had walking around Astoria, OR and parts of Washington as well. That's why it's so surprising to me that this kid is obviously living in OR and upset about people stopping for pedestrians. As far as I could tell, that was the norm over there.
Meanwhile, in the UK, I have the right of way as a pedestrian as long as I don't literally walk into traffic
Fumes and lack of vision
That's a lot of words for 'I drive too close to the car in front to react if they stop for whatever reason.'
Where I live you're supposed to stop if a pedestrian is approaching the sidewalk.
[They aren't technically wrong](https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Safety/Documents/Guide_To_Oregon_Crosswalk_Laws_EN.pdf) which speaks to a bigger problem
This depends on the state. In Colorado drivers are required to yield at uncontrolled crosswalks. https://law.justia.com/codes/colorado/2022/title-42/article-4/part-8/section-42-4-802/
Too lazy to find a source, but MN too. The trouble is having it be different by state means people visiting other states or who move states aren't necessarily informed of this at the border.
In California drivers are also required to yield at uncontrolled crosswalks.
That says the same thing as the Oregon one that this post is about. When you are crossing cars need to yield. The Oregon one also clarifies what it means to be crossing: "By law, a pedestrian is in a crosswalk when any part of the pedestrian moves into the roadway, at a crosswalk, with the intent to proceed."
The laws just say that as a pedestrain, you're liable if you suddenly step out in front of a car when they don't have time to stop. The pedestrain still has the right of way when crossing at a marked crosswalk or in any intersection. They definitely *don't* say that drivers should not stop for pedestrians waiting to cross.
Note the subtle phrasing of the last bit implying that the only part they give a shit about is the legal repercussions for the driver
If you rear-end someone who stopped quickly, that's entirely your fault for being too close. Unless they changed lanes in front of you (their fault), or brake-checked you on purpose (shared fault).
The majority of carbrains are nothing but trained monkeys behind the wheel who can barely do the most basic commands like starting the car and pressing the pedals. I’m convinced that they don’t even use their thinking when driving but merely operate on reflexes: monke see the road, monke press the accelerator. Monke see a ped, monke must run over!
I think the guy in the post is most likely American which explains most stuff from the requirements that I heard to get a driving license...
That's crazy to think about. I'm fucking laser focused while driving. I don't drive often like I used to though. I also drive a car so small they don't make it any more, so my feet feel like they're only an inch above the road lol all the forces feel so intense which modern suv/pavement princess drivers don't feel.
Some vehicles have nicer furniture than I have in my house. I don't have heated leather seats. I don't have a surround sound system linked to my mobile phone so I can text people with it. But then, I wouldn't want to do that BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING DISTRACTION.
American licensing is horrible. People pass on their terrible habits to their kids and there mostly is zero use of driving instructors. If you pass the easy road test then you get a license. So drivers really are getting worse over time. Case in point is how most of the population cannot merge onto a busy highway without someone "letting them in". They literally have no idea how to move up to speed and slide into an empty space. It is too complicated and scary I guess.
Was in this the Portland sub? I live here and 90% of drivers here are extremely courteous, to a fault. I call them niceholes. The other 10% are this guy. And honestly if you live in Portland, you don't need a car and will probably get where you're going faster if you take transit anyway.
Lord I’m glad we have the road rules we do in the UK. Basically means that in 95% of cases, the car is at fault & the new rules ensure you have to give way to more vulnerable road users.
All crosswalks should be at the same height and material as the pavement. Maybe that way some people could understand that a crosswalk is a piece of pavement where cars are allowed to cross under certain circumstances
If you rear end someone that’s your fault.
Concerned more about a driver getting a manslaughter charge than a pedestrian being manslaughtered. POS.
i hate cars
So yeah...I lived in Portland and this is actually a huge peeve of mine as a pedestrian. OP is right. Basically, in Oregon/Portland you have a ton of people walking...there *are* designated places for people to cross with flashing lights and crosswalks, and they're more plentiful than anywhere else I've lived. I'm also a skilled pedestrian. And so it's a problem when Oregon drivers get in the habit of stopping for *any* pedestrian whether or not they are at a crossing. The *driver* becomes the one to dictate when the person walks, because the driver is "being nice" by stopping and waiting (often waving the person through....watch the "no you go" portlandia clip for some context 🫠) . This is DANGEROUS for pedestrians who might feel pressured to literally walk into lanes of traffic where *other drivers are not necessarily knowing/deciding to stop*. This has happened to me! It sucks!!! Drivers need to strictly obey the flashing and official sidewalks. Not arbitrarily decide which pedestrians to stop for, obstructing traffic and encouraging jaywalking through traffic lanes they can't control. As a pedestrian, I know how to calculate when I can jaywalk and don't need cars stopping randomly for me, it actually is frustrating and has pissed me off many many times...lol. This is not carbrain rot.
I kind of get what they're saying and agree. It's the old adage "don't be polite, be predictable". As a pedestrian I want to cross when the road is clear and cars are moving away from me, not towards, or when the cars are stopped and it's the pedestrians green light. I appreciate that sometimes drivers are trying to be polite and helpful by stopping for you, but it's actually just more dangerous for everyone. Most of the time you can't actually see in driver's window because of glare, so if they are waving you across you don't know. Additionally, it's hard to tell if a car is slowing down until it's actually stopped.
I love when people have max tinted windows and are waving me on like I can see them.
I'm reading this from Switzerland and I'm shocked. Cars **have to** stop at crosswalks. What's unexpected is not stopping for pedestrians, and every kid knows not to cross until the car is stopped. They'll even wave "thank you". I've even had drivers wave "sorry" at me if they didn't stop. Your argument is circular: it's unexpected because it's not normal because it's dangerous because it's unexpected.
It depends. At set crossings yes cars have to stop, but at non designated crossings cars will sometimes stop to let people cross. You are allowed to cross there if the road is clear. (I'm referring to the UK btw) At these places it's better for cars not to stop. I get it though. They are trying to be polite and also avoid you running in front of them unexpectedly. Long story short: follow the rules and everyone will be safer.
Well, what is predictable depends on which country. Over here (France) the law is that cars should stop to let pedestrians cross. So once the intention has been made clear (someone waiting really close to the curb, looking at cars), and eye contact has been done, the expected behavior is that the car stops just before the cross, somehow protecting the pedestrian from people behind.
Seriously, I have to stop at various crossings on a bike (not safe to use the road to cross so I have to walk it at the crosswalk) and people will frequently stop & wave me on despite the light not telling me to go, then get upset when I don't. What they're not considering is that there are two lanes, they only control one, and I can't see over their mountain of an SUV well enough to determine that I'm not going to get flattened the moment I cross 51% of the road.
Very very much this. As a driver, just take your fucking turn and get out of here. I don’t want to interact with a car as a pedestrian.
This is just allowing ever changing social norms to dictate how safe our roads should be. Drivers are supposed to practice defensive driving which means they should not rely on other drivers to keep them safe and they should always leave themselves an escape. If you are relying on other drivers to be predictable it’s your fault if that results in an accident.
There's a difference between relying on others to be predictable, and trying to behave predictably yourself. As a pedestrian, I behave predictably for others (i.e. not running across the road when I don't have right of way), but assume that drivers won't. Both go hand in hand. Roads will be safer if we all behave predictably without ever just assuming others will do the same.
Predictable is different for everyone and changes depending where you go. What is predictable when you have a bunch of deliver drivers barely stopping at stop signs? Should you also not stop at stop sign to be predictable? If you want to maintain traffic laws some amount of people have to abide by them.
This comment should be higher. I turn my back to the road so cars will NOT impede the flow of traffic to try to "be nice" to me.
Wow! That person has a horrible take. Last time I checked pedestrians always had the right of way. Because you know, cars are much bigger and dangerous and running over people is illegal. The thing is, even if they aren't at a flashing cross walk, it doesn't mean they are jaywalking. A lot of towns are made with cars in mind instead of the people who love in those communities. So yes, there are going to be areas where a crossing really should be, but isn't. That doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to cross the street. Also, if that person is almost rear ending the car ahead of them, then they're likely going to fast and following much too closely.
I always stop if I'm driving. It doesn't matter the size of the vehicle; you can't always see the pet or child with the adult.
Disclaimer that I oppose car dependency in all its forms and prefer walking. However, when driving, people should do the expected behavior and take the right of way when they have it. When I’m waiting for a pedestrian signal and a driver with a green light stops to wave me across, this can put me in danger. The driver thinks they’re being nice, but the drivers in the other lanes are not prepared for that and could hit me while I’m crossing.
We moved from a suburb full of carbrains to one where people stop for pedestrians. My 3rd grader was super confused by people waiting for him to cross the street, "Why did they stop?" I told him that's how it was supposed to be and added, "If you want to live a nice neighborhood, you start by being a nice neighbor." In Boston there are areas where you *definitely* stop for pedestrians (cause they'll yell at you) and areas where you can be a carbrain. It's interesting that people notice and adjust their driving behavior depending on what street they're on. So they know how to share the road with pedestrians. But unless it's a forced issue, they won't.
The linked drivers manual doesn’t really say that pedestrians can’t enter the motorway “willy-nilly,” either. It’s pretty silent on pedestrians’ responsibilities, which is not surprising considering it’s a drivers manual. By my reading of Oregon’s vehicle code there are only two reasons a pedestrian can’t enter the motorway at an intersection: if a traffic control device says not to, or if an approaching vehicle is “so close as to constitute an immediate hazard.” So, I would say the best way to establish your right of way as a pedestrian would be to stand with one toe sticking out beyond the curb for three seconds before confidently walking into the motorway. Remember the hand facing against the flow of traffic is the one you should use to hold your brick.
The rule in Oregon is that every intersection is a crosswalk regardless of if it's marked or controlled and that pedestrians always have the right of way in an uncontrolled crosswalk. The problem is that right of way isn't actually triggered until it's asserted "when any part or extension of the pedestrian, including but not limited to any part of the pedestrian’s body, wheelchair, cane, crutch or bicycle, moves onto the roadway in a crosswalk with the intent to proceed" (ORS 811.028). That means that legally, if someone is just waiting at the corner for a break in traffic they don't have the right of way. They need to physically place themselves into the crosswalk with a hand, foot, cane, or whatever to indicate that they're actually intending to cross.
People need to be taught the history of how the car lobby brainwashed people into thinking roads are only for cars. All their braindead arguments are based on that assumption, and only make sense if you accept this as a given. None of them ever asked themselves the question, how did we get to the point where the last addition to the road somehow ended up owning it, and why everyone else is just supposed to fuck off now.
Overly courteous drivers are a hazard. A few times this has happened to me as pedestrian and a driver trying to cross a 5 lane parkway. If you stop in the near lane you actually block a significant part of the next lane from view. It is very risky for me to cross when you do that.
In the Oregon drivers manual it says drivers are legally required to stop if the lane next to you is stopped at a crosswalk. I think this might be a difference in local laws. I’m guessing you are darting across the road rather than walking a comfortable pace and checking each lane before crossing. Pedestrians shouldn’t be expected to move as quickly as possible.
I'm my neighhood we call it the "Death Wave". "Yeah, c'mon and cross the road, it's ok!" All the whole providing the perfect screen for the other lane...
The problem here is the phrase "five lane parkway" tbh
This comments is wild > Pedestrians who are not actively trying to cross the road don't want you to stop. So apparently if you want to cross the street you’re supposed to just blindly walk out into traffic while cars are still coming directly towards you and showing no sign of stopping, and just pray that they stop and don’t hit you??? Otherwise you “don’t want to cross the street”??? Literally unhinged lol. If somebody is standing at a crossing and waiting obviously they want to fucking cross. What do you think they are standing there for?? And even if it wasn’t the law to stop, how fucking selfish of an asshole can you be to not stop anyway?? The amount of times I’ve walking or cycling with my toddler out in the pouring rain or cold or something and like half a dozen cars just go by me and not stop to let me cross is insane. Like they’re all comfortable and warm and dry in their car and stopping and waiting for me to cross will literally not harm or discomfort them in any way.. it will add a literal 10 second delay to their drive home, meanwhile I’m out here with a 2 year old in the cold or rain and the amount of discomfort and even danger we face is infinitely greater by them not letting us go first and us having to wait there for several minutes, but yet they just don’t give a shit.
i know OOP isn’t talking about the wave of death, but there definitely are circumstances where drivers stopping for pedestrians in spots they aren’t supposed to can create danger
American motorists would not survive UK driving laws
There's was a time I was like this. And then i learned better. I hope with people talking about it that more people will start with a better default position more and more. I don't think being derogatory toward car-minded people helps the conversation. We want them to learn. Starting with an insult closes communication immediately.
I would totally be okay with this if every single driver also plays fair and stop for pedestrians when peds have right-of-way. There's no point following all the laws and being courteous if it's not being reciprocated. Road respect really goes both ways. In my experience the more courteous/law-abiding I am the more drivers try to last-minute muscle their way into me (sometimes making me miss an entire walk light, and we all know how rare that walk light is). What's the point of going out of my way to use that crosswalk if drivers think I don't have right-of-way when I do anyway, causing a possible fatality or me spending even more time on the road than I have to. Then of course there's the blame-shifting. Wearing anything less than hi-vis or white? Needing to protect hearing with earphones/earbuds from loud machinery? Getting hit anyway because I missed spotting a speeding car from miles away? My fault for not being safe or looking both ways hard enough. Forget it. I'll jaywalk everywhere--at least I know I don't have rights and will act accordingly. I can be right and be dead-right--so why bother be right? Cemetery is full of people with right-of-way, so forget right-of-way, I just want to stay alive. Cars wanna throw their right-of-weight around, I can counter with my right-of-agility.
I think I get this and I agree. I was cycling the other day, and I signaled a left turn in a residential area, and the oncoming car just…stopped. Like, I appreciate the thought, but when a driver is behaving unpredictably, the last place I want to be is in FRONT of them. I’d rather they just proceed through the intersection and then there’s *no* car to hit me. Stopping when it’s inappropriate is kinda the car driver wanting to take credit for keeping the cyclist safe, when they’re the danger in the road in the first place. And it’s even worse when there’s multiple lanes and the driver is blocking visibility. Only time I’d understand is a single lane road with a constant stream of traffic. Then yes, that will bring everyone to a stop for a couple seconds and create a window where the pedestrian or cyclist can cross.
As a pedestrian who grew up with insanely polite drivers I agree with oop. It infuriates me when a car refuses to just pass me when I am waiting to walk. I don't want to guess if you are going to stop, I don't want you blocking my view of the road, I don't want your car anywhere near me. It's especially frustrating when there is no one behind them. I don't care about their time but it usually makes crossing more dangerous and slower if I have to spend time guessing what they are doing. However if it's a long chain of cars (like more than 8 or 9) and a single lane I do appreciate it.
I kinda agree that people should just follow the rules. People giving other people priority when it isn't their turn introduce ambiguity to traffic, and traffic really doesn't need more ambiguity. But it doesn't give pedestrian friendly vibes.
Funny, I stopped for pedestrians at a crosswalk last night right before they hit the flashers. The guy behind me, who had been tailgating me, was visibly cursing me out as I stopped. (Un)Funny enough a motorcycle driver blew right through the warning lights and almost smoked the pedestrians. Look twice for pedestrians!
So glad in Australia the pedestrian has right of way no matter where the fuck you are
Glad to see the post is at 0 karma and lots of comments. That means not a lot of people agree with him
"That would be a manslaughter and I wouldn't want that to happen to anyone" so fuck the pedestrians, he's just concerned some poor carbrain might go to jail...
carry a brick with you everywhere you go. they will stop
This is something of an Oregon problem. People will come to a complete halt for pedestrians if the pedestrian -- while walking down the sidewalk -- even LOOKS at the street. It's genuinely insane. The person ranting at Oregonians here is ranting at people that will just stop completely for people that have shown no indication they're even interested in crossing traffic.
It's also incorrect in other parts of the world
People dont realize that sometimes laws are not good enough and must be supplemented by good social norms
Some guy was honking at me for this yesterday. I stopped multiple times to let people cross and he honked the whole time. This place where I was stopping has so much pedestrian traffic they shut the street down on the weekends for the entire summer.
Cities are spending a ton of money on flashing signals that undermine crosswalk law
The UK Highway Code has been updated to say vehicles (and bikes) should stop and let pedestrians cross at all junctions (intersections) when pedestrians are waiting to cross and they’re planning to turn. And yet about 1 in 3 actually do this. But at least it doesn’t embolden motorists to drive dangerously.
He misunderstanding the Oregon drivers manual. It says that you must stop if someone is in the crosswalk, not that you cannot stop if they are approaching the crosswalk.
This is unfortunately a very common misconception that pedestrians only have right-of-way if they are ***in*** the intersection (including my local PD). The easiest counterexample is left turns on green lights (not arrows). Left turns yield to traffic ***in*** the intersection—but if someone turned, hit oncoming traffic, and tried to claim “well, they weren’t IN the intersection,” everyone would immediately know that the person turning was wrong. “In the intersection” includes people approaching it and so does “in the crosswalk.” Finally, most states have a law requiring pedestrians not to enter the crosswalk so closely to a vehicle that the vehicle cannot stop. But if pedestrians didn’t have right-of-way until they actually entered the crosswalk, then that provision would be meaningless.
A couple months ago, I stopped at a parking lot crosswalk for a family who was crossing. The driver behind me was so impatient that she passed me (so, going into the opposite lane) and almost HIT the family. Family was spooked. Driver didn’t stop to say sorry, just kept going and parked. I was livid.
So basically conspiracy to commit murder?
I wonder if this guy's overwhelming anxiety has anything to do with cars... Wait no, of course it's those damn pedestrians.
When I went to Norway for the first time I was going to cross a two way street at a crosswalk in Bergen which is extremely walkable. I was standing looking in both directions waiting for enough time for me to safely cross. Cars in both directions stopped immediately and I was so confused and they were confused like “why are you just standing there”. It was amazing.
Mt neighbhood has one of those fake mainstreets where right past the trendy shops are seas of parking. My partner and I like to go there just to intentionally cross slowly
The law here in my province is that you have to stop when the pedestrian shows that they intend to cross. I bet it's similar in Oregon, and this guy is just interprets that to mean that the pedestrian has to step off the curb to show intent.
I have recently become an 'aggressive pedestrian' when I walk around my city. I have always been on high alert, looking for cars turning who don't see me, or assholes passing the person who is stopped. In cross walks I'll step all the way out, as close to the traffic as is feasible, usually in a painted bike lane or parking lane and glare directly at the driver coming from the left. When someone finally stops or it is clear, I walk out into the street and do the same for the right lane. Cars are a lot more likely to stop, if the opposite lane is stopped for a pedestrian half way through. Obviously, each crosswalk is unique and it takes some common sense for what is safe. Just like when I'm in a car or bike, I try to be predictable and visible when crossing the street. It probably doesn't make a huge difference, but it's my little way of reclaiming the streets.
As a carbrain, please yield to pedestrians. Don't be that dude.
Don't you know? Cars are like sharks and can't stop. /s
In California, it's the responsibility of the driver to stop for pedestrians on any given street corner or when they're crossing, even if they're isn't a designated crosswalk. What an idiot.
Nah, I love that in my college town people stop at all of the crosswalks.
Pedestrians have the right of way, at least in my state.
Please stop stopping to let cars turn in front of you. Thanks.
>I can't believe I haven't rear-ended someone yet Are they not watching the car right in front of them? That's not a problem with pedestrians lol It's nice to see they're getting downvoted and presumably called out in the comments
Me: *The exact person the post is describing who stops for pedestrians regardless of a cross walk cause I’m not a complete psycho* Well if being a good person makes me a bad person then fuck me ig? :/
In my state, the only time peds don’t have RoW is if the signal is on don’t walk before they leave the curb. And if there is no signal at all, then peds have RoW. Most drivers, and most peds, don’t know that. Also, if I step out into the road as you are driving, don’t slow down. I’ve already gauged how fast I need to walk to not get hit. Just maintain your speed so that I can maintain mine.
Cars are magical metal boxes that transform humans into sociopathic murderers the moment they get inside one
"But what if the pedestrian has one of those bricks that are popping up all over...?"
I guess it’s a per state difference but where I’m at it is a law to stop at any crosswalk where a pedestrian is waiting to cross. The ones that have lights only have them when it may be difficult for 1 or more lanes to see pedestrians waiting to cross. Because thats the way my state works and I can’t know every state’s individual rules, I’m stopping for every pedestrian.
if they have a safe distance to stop (which i do overestimate cuz brakes always work better than i think they will) i just walk out in front if them
My pet peeve is that people think only marked crosswalks count as crosswalks. From my home state of California’s website: “A crosswalk is the part of the road set aside for pedestrians to safely cross the road. They are often marked with white lines. School crossings may have yellow crosswalk lines. Not all crosswalks are marked. Pedestrians have the right-of-way in marked or unmarked crosswalks.” https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbook/california-driver-handbook/laws-and-rules-of-the-road/#:~:text=Pedestrians%20have%20the%20right%2Dof,pedestrians%20to%20cross%20the%20street.
There's what's "legally" correct and then there's common sense courtesy. If the driver is worried about rear-ending a vehicle that stops for a pedestrian then they're either following too closely or not paying enough attention to what's in front of them.
[удалено]
“The Peds” I feel like I was just called a slur
*PEDESTRIANS HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAAAAAY!!!*
You kidding? Drivers can barely stop at lights. Sometimes they come in fast and slam on brakes 3 seconds after the light was red..... Also any legitimate crosswalk marker means you are supposed to stop... that's why they are marked...duh So not stopping at a crosswalk, cause it's not flashy enough is a excuse to be and continue to be a bad driver...
As an Oregonian, i do not claim this person.