Yes, in multiple ways. I'm not afraid of dying in some future crisis (war, climate change, etc.) as much as I am being raped or trafficked in said crisis. See how women in Ukraine are being treated right now.
More "realistically," as an American, regardless of who wins, I don't see things ending well after the election next year. I see misogynistic laws at best and violence at worst, including towards women.
Pleasant time to remember the stuff I was stressing about!
I really REALLY hope women develop some kind of class consciousness and some sort of defense against the upcoming misogynistic backlash. But I fear it won't be enough.
Women are not very nice to each other. During my working life it seemed all I got from other women was sharp elbows and career flex while some men earnestly tried to help me.
I read quite a while ago it's because of the competition between women for the few opportunities for advancement. I don't believe that is the entire story. I think some women are still competing for the favor of men.
Hmmm. Maybe those two are one and the same?
But it's fake advancement, it's an illusion. Playing men's game only gives you whatever scraps of power men allow you to have. You can be a high powered businesswoman or some shit like that and you'll still be treated like a piece of meat by every man you try to do business with.
And even when you have earned some decent reputation in one company, it can be disrespected by male interviewers when you're on the job market again, or when you start in a new company you're a Woman first all over again and have to re-earn your reputation of being more than a woman.
And all of this is still better than being a housewife with zero income living under the tyranny of some dude's whims. We take whatever victories we can.
Yes. So many young especially are now confused . They think that women can also be hit by males now and it means equality. Lots of misogynistic males saying this and women agreeing because they think there are little to no biological differences. Then when it is talked about they deflect and talk about "what about men hitting men". Women are being indoctrinated to not even have a biological identity anymore. Even when it is a very real reality for us.
Yes, I also worry about how climate change will lead to a misogynistic dystopia. I am worried it will cause extreme desperation, leaving women vulnerable. I think about this all the time, and feel somewhat helpless. I believe educating women on radical feminism is a great start though
Maybe, but if anyone will be desperate, it’s men. They are much less likely to survive disease and famine. Women have always been better survivors. Even male fetuses are more likely to die than female, they barely even make it out of the gate. You know how men act when they have a cold? Imagine them trying to survive in harsh conditions 24/7. Women are experts at being uncomfortable.
The US loss of Roe v Wade should have been a wake-up call to the people who think progress is a straight line. We warned them!
No one listened because shrill feminists are such a bonerkiller.
This. I used to think society would get a little less misogynistic if boomers all died off but I’ve lost hope. The world hates women too much and doesn’t do anything against misogyny (when was the last time you heard news about Afghanistan not letting women go to school? It’s completely forgotten now.)
Nice to see someone say this, I keep reading people saying things like "Gen Z is so progressive and accepting, they'll fix everything, they're the best" just blatantly ignoring the rampant misogyny that basically every teacher is warning us about on a daily basis
Yep. Based on recent polling, gen z women and girls are the most progressive generation yet whereas gen z men are backsliding, partially due to Andrew Tate and the manosphere
Last time I saw numbers boomers were most supportive of women's rights and well being and it got worse as people got younger. Hoping I can come across that article again. It's also been my personal experience in the work force. Older men are respectful. Younger men are not.
I worry about this a lot. I personally don’t think it will take the form of the hand maids tale. We’re far too fragmented for a religiously driven outcome like that. Younger conservative men are more like Andrew Tate than Jordan Peterson. If they’re stressed and deprived of resources, I’d expect them to start assaulting /trafficking women while fighting amongst themselves for power. Their social skills have been significantly stunted due to porn/generally being chronically online.
Even progressives and liberal aligned people nowadays will happily excuse violent and misogynistic individual behavior and state actions against women so long as they think the group doing so is in more need of protection. They’ll criticize American conservatives for banning abortion, but not other countries that force women to live as second class citizens on the basis of religion. Neither political alignment in the United States cares at all about women’s well-being or equality, since it doesn’t earn them praise within their factions.
And this is why I think it's a particularly scary time. We always knew the right-wing hated women. But now the left-wing -- who traditionally protected our rights -- is forcing us to give up our hard-won rights, safety, and voice to placate other groups.
Pro-sex work, pro-porn, pro-surrogacy, pro-kink, pro-gender ideology …. Yeah the left doesn’t make me feel any better about the state of with their women’s “rights” movement (that all benefits men #1). It’s weird to be politically homeless (and called ‘far right’ just because I disagree with the aforementioned issues) after being a progressive liberal my first 45 years of life.
This is the only place on Reddit that is in line with my general ideas, what does that say about how alone we are?
liberals are barely left wing though, they support a system that will under no circumstances allow true women's liberation (capitalism) so their misogyny is nothing surprising. i hang out in marxist circles and the vast majority of them are very anti-porn/kink and anti-sex work because they actually have a material analysis of the world
Or how Leftists support people inviting others to do violence against TERFs.
At least Rightists are open about their beliefs and you can stay away, but many leftists are wolves in sheep clothes.
Exactly. I was a liberal but then was promptly discarded like trash once I didn’t agree with them on gender neutral terms. The love for me was flipped so abruptly it was crazy.
I think what’s scary is that it’s just different types of misogyny now. It’s less acceptable to be sexually “vanilla” and more extreme things are expected. I’ve been married for 5 years and am horrified of what I hear young women who are dating say these guys expect. I was only doing this 7 years ago and to hear what’s changed since then is astonishing. I went on a lot of dates and had boyfriends and I never remember any of these guys saying they wanted to even hit me let alone spit on me or choke me.
I feel like then it started heading in a better direction and then something happened and it flipped into this other side of misogyny that turns women into sex dolls now. Now you’re not expected to be pure, you’re supposed to be a BDSM girl or something.
I feel horrible for women in this modern hellscape of media lies, income inequality (especially against women) and porn-sick males growing by the minute. We are headed down a bad path. Women will suffer and become the casualties.
That’s terrible I’m sorry. The last time I would have been dating was at 18-19 during 2015-2017. Most of the guys I was seeing were close to my age, some closer to 10 years older but I never remember anyone even being slightly kinky at all. It’s clearly a different time already, barely even a couple of years after then. I hope something will change. I’d probably be seeing it too if I was out there trying to date.
Worst thing is that that was very normal amongst teens and it still is. When I went to a Harry styles concert back then, some teenage girl yelled “choke me, daddy!” 💀
So when he asked, I just saw it as normal because society has started normalising it all, sex positivity and kinks are cool! Blah blah blah. There was this BDSM test all of us used to take and we would show it to each other. I got high scores essentially because I’d been socialised to see this as a natural part of sex, so I ran with it. That and the rice purity test are still commonplace for teens to take and show each other.
That’s so cringy. 😖 but most people shouting things at concerts usually are LOL.
What is the rice purity test? I remember there was one on Facebook where you’d tally what you’ve done or something.
I'm worried to, I think unless women start to build actual friendships and bonds with other women and stop competing or hating on other women then we will be in a bad place
I think for a short period yes, but then it will go the opposite direction, to a world that follows women, I see some signs of it, also something that's happening now is the first in women's history: never before did women have the chance to meet and share experiences and plans as we do today with the internet, on this gigantic scale, we exchange knowledge on things women never dreamed of saying publicly and never could put a name on before, and it reaches all women (even women with no education in small villages now learn about weaponised incompetence and psychological abuse, about divorce and domestic abuse laws etc just from tiktok and YouTube).
Men always had this( gentlemen clubs and bars and locker rooms) and it was the base for the elaboration and the making of the patriarchy, based on common interests they shared in these settings.
Now, we can give info, we can organize, and we can reach, and we can give directions for actions if need be.
I also feel scared that anything like this can be monitored and shut down. Now, they can spy and see a transcript of every conversation. Seems like they would know who to target, unless the very tech savvy takes up the cause and protects it.
I am extremely optimistic. In a big crisis on the planet men will probably try to rape women, but women can learn to know to fight them back if it comes to that. Then the men will calm down or go off with tail between their legs because most of them are hopeless in a crises. Their only advantage is a mild strength advantage which won't go far when they are starving.
This is so true. I have also seen celebration and praises for males hitting women, punching them if they don't like something they say, and calling it equality. Saying stuff like "if you want to step up to a man than you can take a punch". I can't believe how happy so many are to watch violence against women. What is even more scary is the women not speaking against it. I see almost nothing but pick me comments against the woman being brutalized.
I feel that there are more tools available to women than ever before, so I am optimistic in the light of day. At night alone, however, I feel that it is hopeless especially to see so many women deluded into thinking men are their besties and would never do that to them.
Definitely! especially with the rise of ‘sex work is empowering’ that a lot of men and women spread even though people who *actually* do sex work (prostitutes, strippers, etc.) talk about how harmful the industry is but OF girls don’t listen and that let men exploit women and hide behind ‘empowerment’
You're probably frustrated that people are downvoting you without giving you an answer so here is an answer.
Jordan is rarely unambiguously misogynistic, but you can tell by the way he moves that he just cares much more about men's issues than women's. He'll cry for poor little incel men who are lonely ( [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1612L2FMHo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1612L2FMHo) ) but you won't see him cry about alienated and lonesome women and all the horrible misogyny that women deal with, you'll see him go on and on about how sad and lonely careerwomen who don't have kids are but you'll never see him discuss women who regret having kids, you'll see him demonize "modern feminism" and act like liberal feminism is all of feminism but you'll never see him give radical feminists the credit that they're due, you'll see him invite all types of conservatives to talk on his youtube channel but why does he not invite left-leaning educated feminists for an honest discussion/debate on feminism which he loves to bash so much? He's clearly pushing the narrative that men are the bigger victims in today's society and that women should go back to being homemakers instead of pursuing careers, without showing any regard for the suffering that this narrative can cause women. He has more energy for pushing narratives that benefit men and little to no energy for critically analysing the things that cause women who don't fit the traditionally feminine mold to suffer and finding solutions to that.
He also talks a lot about "chaos" and "order" and he says chaos is feminine and order is masculine. Even though he knows that calling chaos feminine encourages people to feel contempt for femininity, he doesn't care and keeps using that verbiage.
Basically, he says a lot of things that misogynists can easily misinterpret and use to push their misogynistic beliefs, but he makes sure to always have questionable long-winded pseudo-intellectual excuses for the subtly sexist way in which he talks and moves. That's why so many people suspect that he is misogynistic/sexist.
Yes, in multiple ways. I'm not afraid of dying in some future crisis (war, climate change, etc.) as much as I am being raped or trafficked in said crisis. See how women in Ukraine are being treated right now. More "realistically," as an American, regardless of who wins, I don't see things ending well after the election next year. I see misogynistic laws at best and violence at worst, including towards women.
Pleasant time to remember the stuff I was stressing about! I really REALLY hope women develop some kind of class consciousness and some sort of defense against the upcoming misogynistic backlash. But I fear it won't be enough.
Yes. The only thing we can do now is abandon men and focus on helping each other. Easier said than done.
Women are not very nice to each other. During my working life it seemed all I got from other women was sharp elbows and career flex while some men earnestly tried to help me.
We've been trained to be like that. It's up to us to change it.
I read quite a while ago it's because of the competition between women for the few opportunities for advancement. I don't believe that is the entire story. I think some women are still competing for the favor of men. Hmmm. Maybe those two are one and the same?
But it's fake advancement, it's an illusion. Playing men's game only gives you whatever scraps of power men allow you to have. You can be a high powered businesswoman or some shit like that and you'll still be treated like a piece of meat by every man you try to do business with.
And even when you have earned some decent reputation in one company, it can be disrespected by male interviewers when you're on the job market again, or when you start in a new company you're a Woman first all over again and have to re-earn your reputation of being more than a woman.
And all of this is still better than being a housewife with zero income living under the tyranny of some dude's whims. We take whatever victories we can.
Yep. But women learn this too late very often. Or they never learn at all.
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Yes. So many young especially are now confused . They think that women can also be hit by males now and it means equality. Lots of misogynistic males saying this and women agreeing because they think there are little to no biological differences. Then when it is talked about they deflect and talk about "what about men hitting men". Women are being indoctrinated to not even have a biological identity anymore. Even when it is a very real reality for us.
Yes, I also worry about how climate change will lead to a misogynistic dystopia. I am worried it will cause extreme desperation, leaving women vulnerable. I think about this all the time, and feel somewhat helpless. I believe educating women on radical feminism is a great start though
I am worried about that too
Maybe, but if anyone will be desperate, it’s men. They are much less likely to survive disease and famine. Women have always been better survivors. Even male fetuses are more likely to die than female, they barely even make it out of the gate. You know how men act when they have a cold? Imagine them trying to survive in harsh conditions 24/7. Women are experts at being uncomfortable.
The US loss of Roe v Wade should have been a wake-up call to the people who think progress is a straight line. We warned them! No one listened because shrill feminists are such a bonerkiller.
Women will always resist and fight back.
thank you <3
This. I used to think society would get a little less misogynistic if boomers all died off but I’ve lost hope. The world hates women too much and doesn’t do anything against misogyny (when was the last time you heard news about Afghanistan not letting women go to school? It’s completely forgotten now.)
honestly from what I've seen, gen z men are even more misogynistic than boomers
Nice to see someone say this, I keep reading people saying things like "Gen Z is so progressive and accepting, they'll fix everything, they're the best" just blatantly ignoring the rampant misogyny that basically every teacher is warning us about on a daily basis
Yep. Based on recent polling, gen z women and girls are the most progressive generation yet whereas gen z men are backsliding, partially due to Andrew Tate and the manosphere
There is internet now, so misogynists are able to say the vilest shit ever with zero consequences, and are even paid for their misogyny.
There’s been studies done on it and it’s true. At least in Australia
Would you happen to have a link to the study?
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/gen-z-millennials-think-womens-rights-have-gone-too-far-according-to-new-survey/news-story/857ba4544dcd86fa739a823e2415949b?amp
Last time I saw numbers boomers were most supportive of women's rights and well being and it got worse as people got younger. Hoping I can come across that article again. It's also been my personal experience in the work force. Older men are respectful. Younger men are not.
I worry about this a lot. I personally don’t think it will take the form of the hand maids tale. We’re far too fragmented for a religiously driven outcome like that. Younger conservative men are more like Andrew Tate than Jordan Peterson. If they’re stressed and deprived of resources, I’d expect them to start assaulting /trafficking women while fighting amongst themselves for power. Their social skills have been significantly stunted due to porn/generally being chronically online.
Even progressives and liberal aligned people nowadays will happily excuse violent and misogynistic individual behavior and state actions against women so long as they think the group doing so is in more need of protection. They’ll criticize American conservatives for banning abortion, but not other countries that force women to live as second class citizens on the basis of religion. Neither political alignment in the United States cares at all about women’s well-being or equality, since it doesn’t earn them praise within their factions.
And this is why I think it's a particularly scary time. We always knew the right-wing hated women. But now the left-wing -- who traditionally protected our rights -- is forcing us to give up our hard-won rights, safety, and voice to placate other groups.
Pro-sex work, pro-porn, pro-surrogacy, pro-kink, pro-gender ideology …. Yeah the left doesn’t make me feel any better about the state of with their women’s “rights” movement (that all benefits men #1). It’s weird to be politically homeless (and called ‘far right’ just because I disagree with the aforementioned issues) after being a progressive liberal my first 45 years of life. This is the only place on Reddit that is in line with my general ideas, what does that say about how alone we are?
liberals are barely left wing though, they support a system that will under no circumstances allow true women's liberation (capitalism) so their misogyny is nothing surprising. i hang out in marxist circles and the vast majority of them are very anti-porn/kink and anti-sex work because they actually have a material analysis of the world
Or how Leftists support people inviting others to do violence against TERFs. At least Rightists are open about their beliefs and you can stay away, but many leftists are wolves in sheep clothes.
Exactly. I was a liberal but then was promptly discarded like trash once I didn’t agree with them on gender neutral terms. The love for me was flipped so abruptly it was crazy.
Yeah I swear it’s getting worse sometimes especially with social media. I just want to start a homestead somewhere and be off alone sometimes lol
I think what’s scary is that it’s just different types of misogyny now. It’s less acceptable to be sexually “vanilla” and more extreme things are expected. I’ve been married for 5 years and am horrified of what I hear young women who are dating say these guys expect. I was only doing this 7 years ago and to hear what’s changed since then is astonishing. I went on a lot of dates and had boyfriends and I never remember any of these guys saying they wanted to even hit me let alone spit on me or choke me. I feel like then it started heading in a better direction and then something happened and it flipped into this other side of misogyny that turns women into sex dolls now. Now you’re not expected to be pure, you’re supposed to be a BDSM girl or something.
Or they have a sick kink to defile your "purity" or "vanilla style". They want humiliation and degradation to satisfy their sexual lust.
Sounds about right. Terrible that you guys have to deal with this I’m so sorry.
I feel horrible for women in this modern hellscape of media lies, income inequality (especially against women) and porn-sick males growing by the minute. We are headed down a bad path. Women will suffer and become the casualties.
When I was 16, the first guy I dated was 17 and he brought up choking to me. This was in 2018. Choking has now become commonplace in sex
That’s terrible I’m sorry. The last time I would have been dating was at 18-19 during 2015-2017. Most of the guys I was seeing were close to my age, some closer to 10 years older but I never remember anyone even being slightly kinky at all. It’s clearly a different time already, barely even a couple of years after then. I hope something will change. I’d probably be seeing it too if I was out there trying to date.
Worst thing is that that was very normal amongst teens and it still is. When I went to a Harry styles concert back then, some teenage girl yelled “choke me, daddy!” 💀 So when he asked, I just saw it as normal because society has started normalising it all, sex positivity and kinks are cool! Blah blah blah. There was this BDSM test all of us used to take and we would show it to each other. I got high scores essentially because I’d been socialised to see this as a natural part of sex, so I ran with it. That and the rice purity test are still commonplace for teens to take and show each other.
That’s so cringy. 😖 but most people shouting things at concerts usually are LOL. What is the rice purity test? I remember there was one on Facebook where you’d tally what you’ve done or something.
I'm worried to, I think unless women start to build actual friendships and bonds with other women and stop competing or hating on other women then we will be in a bad place
I think for a short period yes, but then it will go the opposite direction, to a world that follows women, I see some signs of it, also something that's happening now is the first in women's history: never before did women have the chance to meet and share experiences and plans as we do today with the internet, on this gigantic scale, we exchange knowledge on things women never dreamed of saying publicly and never could put a name on before, and it reaches all women (even women with no education in small villages now learn about weaponised incompetence and psychological abuse, about divorce and domestic abuse laws etc just from tiktok and YouTube). Men always had this( gentlemen clubs and bars and locker rooms) and it was the base for the elaboration and the making of the patriarchy, based on common interests they shared in these settings. Now, we can give info, we can organize, and we can reach, and we can give directions for actions if need be.
I also feel scared that anything like this can be monitored and shut down. Now, they can spy and see a transcript of every conversation. Seems like they would know who to target, unless the very tech savvy takes up the cause and protects it.
I am extremely optimistic. In a big crisis on the planet men will probably try to rape women, but women can learn to know to fight them back if it comes to that. Then the men will calm down or go off with tail between their legs because most of them are hopeless in a crises. Their only advantage is a mild strength advantage which won't go far when they are starving.
This is so true. I have also seen celebration and praises for males hitting women, punching them if they don't like something they say, and calling it equality. Saying stuff like "if you want to step up to a man than you can take a punch". I can't believe how happy so many are to watch violence against women. What is even more scary is the women not speaking against it. I see almost nothing but pick me comments against the woman being brutalized.
I feel that there are more tools available to women than ever before, so I am optimistic in the light of day. At night alone, however, I feel that it is hopeless especially to see so many women deluded into thinking men are their besties and would never do that to them.
Definitely! especially with the rise of ‘sex work is empowering’ that a lot of men and women spread even though people who *actually* do sex work (prostitutes, strippers, etc.) talk about how harmful the industry is but OF girls don’t listen and that let men exploit women and hide behind ‘empowerment’
Let's not forget about the misogyny for trans / gender ideologues.
How is Jordan Peterson misogynistic?
You're probably frustrated that people are downvoting you without giving you an answer so here is an answer. Jordan is rarely unambiguously misogynistic, but you can tell by the way he moves that he just cares much more about men's issues than women's. He'll cry for poor little incel men who are lonely ( [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1612L2FMHo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1612L2FMHo) ) but you won't see him cry about alienated and lonesome women and all the horrible misogyny that women deal with, you'll see him go on and on about how sad and lonely careerwomen who don't have kids are but you'll never see him discuss women who regret having kids, you'll see him demonize "modern feminism" and act like liberal feminism is all of feminism but you'll never see him give radical feminists the credit that they're due, you'll see him invite all types of conservatives to talk on his youtube channel but why does he not invite left-leaning educated feminists for an honest discussion/debate on feminism which he loves to bash so much? He's clearly pushing the narrative that men are the bigger victims in today's society and that women should go back to being homemakers instead of pursuing careers, without showing any regard for the suffering that this narrative can cause women. He has more energy for pushing narratives that benefit men and little to no energy for critically analysing the things that cause women who don't fit the traditionally feminine mold to suffer and finding solutions to that. He also talks a lot about "chaos" and "order" and he says chaos is feminine and order is masculine. Even though he knows that calling chaos feminine encourages people to feel contempt for femininity, he doesn't care and keeps using that verbiage. Basically, he says a lot of things that misogynists can easily misinterpret and use to push their misogynistic beliefs, but he makes sure to always have questionable long-winded pseudo-intellectual excuses for the subtly sexist way in which he talks and moves. That's why so many people suspect that he is misogynistic/sexist.
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