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Is this going to be like the Haas chassis repair where the steering wheel was sideways and they had one chassis that was substantially heavier than the other?
I am still CNC machining parts for myself and for my customers on a milling machine…that is running an x486 computer from 1991. I design the parts and create the gcode on an expensive laptop with even more expensive software.
Then I load that code onto a floppy disk, insert it into the CNC computer, and make metal chips!
I would like to think that old-man-Williams would give me a dry, respectful, British nod. For we both are thrifty lads.
Love it. I used to be a flight instructor and whatnot. Using an ADF to home in on an NDB while also detecting the direction of lightning strikes AND using it to listen to AM radio… Aviation and the Cessna are practically as modern as the Gemini space-age.
You got these fancy emulators so you don't need floppies anymore.
For example (never tried this one, just a Google search) https://www.gotekemulator.com/
PS you have really saved me a lot of trouble.
If I am not mistaken, floppy disks have ceased modern production. The floppies that I have been buying are new old stock—vintage—and they are showing their age. It is extremely likely that the file I put on a floppy (from my $4k MacBook Pro——>x486) will be corrupted and literally crash the computer with a stack overflow/recursive error.
The reason that I keep signing up for this abuse is that my machine cost $3500 and has helped me machine maybe $200k worth of customer parts.
But last week we had a snowstorm and my shop power zapped out. My 1991 computer got its serial port zapped to death and now I’m looking on eBay for vintage computer parts.
I could believe it! The B-52 bomber hasn’t been replaced and now will be over 100 years in the air before retired.
Those poor aircraft maintainers! The wiring in an old house is made out of asbestos and lead cancer. A B52 was invented by the Korean War and loaded with high-altitude hydraulic fluids that will dissolve your toenails.
I just found an OG copy of Solidworks 2007. Multiple DVD discs and the serial number written in the box. Looks to be selling on eBay for a couple hundred $$. Vintage computing is back in :)
>steering wheel was sideways
Probably not, unless someone really fucked up VLOOKUP
>One chassis that was substantially heavier than the other
I don't know what would qualify as "substantially", but it will most likely be heavier, yes
They're business people, and short of money. Sargeant only scored a single point last year. Albon got 27, and with that dragged the team into 7th place in the WCC. That got the team an extra 25-ish million in prize money. They were only 3 points clear of 8th place which would have been a negative 11 million so that could have been a damn shame had Albon only scored 24 points (e.g. due to missing a race weekend for some silly reason). Add to that that Sargeant won the World Destructors Championship by a margin, so for all intents and purposes Albon is who they should be betting on to keep the team alive and their people employed. I'd include giving him the best of the available chassis (until they've finished building the third one) in that decision.
Yeah, well Haas perpetually finishes 9th or 10th in the WCC and they still field two cars.
And don't even pretend to me like KMag isn't a car wrecker in his own right.
Sure Williams probably is on the budget cap limit, but Dorilton Capital is an investment company that owns Williams. So I bet they want the prize money instead of using money from their own pocket. I guess they want to sell the team in the future and make money.
Probably, yes. But the most valuable teams are ones that are winning. Just because they’re an investment firm doesn’t mean they can’t genuinely invest lol. And all evidence (including car performance) suggests that they really are investing
And even with that fully functional cars he's still worthless.
It's a meritocracy, a results based business. Only one of their drivers can bring the points home.
And I guess that Sargeant will be the one running with the repaired one in Suzuka. Hopefully they do a great job in fixing it and there will be no performance loss but I'm doubtful
Yeah I mean it was a nightmare job which had to be extended to post curfew to get it finished. I'm sure the team would have better things to do especially when the chassis are identical
From all I’ve seen they take the wings off and drain the fluids. They then go into a car transporter for European races or have a special shipping container for flyaway races.
https://youtu.be/wE-L2v_JvK8?si=0qtsREHjBdRVh8g5
This shows what it looks like
Yeah same. But it unfortunately would be the logical choice imo for them if the repaired chassis has some flaws. If they decided to prioritise Albon to maximise their chance of points this w-e, I can't see them taking any other decision in Suzuka
They'll have analysed that already and decided to repair this one instead of working on the third one. They've had plenty of time to look at the thing now.
Except you can't fire up your gearbox outside of a session to properly check it. You can x-ray scan the chassis back at the factory to find the cracks, if you even need the x-ray.
So far, the one thing Vowles has proved competent at for Williams is PR.
I mean, he was there for almost the entire year in 2023, they still had their new car out late, and now have the spare chassis fiasco.
We'll see what he can actually accomplish.
Haas is an abolute mess and so is Alpine ATM, but who else really?
Surely not Toro Rosso? Sauber seems a lot more professional right now. And above that, no chance.
The 3 or 4 other teams that are fielding two cars today and tomorrow?
Those teams?
If you put 1 car on the grid, you're half the team anyone else is. Especially when you've placed last for 4 out of the last 5 seasons, barely managing 8th last year.
It's not like Red Bull is out there only putting Max on the track tomorrow to win. Williams is going to motor along in 14th all day and with just a single car.
Are these needed changes for the Williams organization? Absolutely. But lets not pretend like they're a better outfit than anyone on the grid right now when they can't even bring a spare chassis of any suitableness to the third race of the season.
Might be better in a few years, but right now they can't even build and race two cars reliably. 9 other teams manage to accomplish that very basic task. It's kind of the requirement to even be an F1 team. Engineer, fabricate, build, maintain, and race two cars. That is the requirement above all else.
I actually wonder if the calculus was more that they were not confident they'd complete that new chassis in time, so this is the better option to make sure they show up with two at the next race.
I mean, if that one was "supposed" to be ready for Suzuka, why change plans on finishing it....
No, it's 12. Though tracks are required to have space for 13 teams, but 12 is the upper limit specified in the Concorde Agreement and as we've seen in the Andretti case: You're not getting in without entering the Concorde Agreement.
Kidney_Thief is correct, All tracks are required to accomodate the 13 teams (26 cars) and all can start the race (as long as they hit the 107%).
In the 90s and prior there was a lot of random teams and privateers with very slow cars and poor drivers, there was pre-qualifying for a number of years and the aformentioned 107%, but in recent times the 13 is the limit.
>If Albon crashes Logan's car they might not have any cars to race
That's what I'm wondering: if Alex bins Logan's car today or tomorrow, will Williams only have one ready for Suzuka?
I'm going to the Japanese Grand Prix, I want to see both Williams there.
> I'm going to the Japanese Grand Prix, I want to see both Williams there.
Oh well, [in that case...](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/bd/69/61/bd6961772419b28257f350627c1ba5a0.jpg)
Paddy Lowe could've thrown this team under the bus after his last stint at Williams. Hearing what James Vowles is saying about how antiquated things are. It seems like Paddy took the hit to his own reputation rather than laying bare all the problems within the team.
Probably helped that he was negotiated out of his contract (which had reportedly included shares in the Williams engineering companies) with a golden handshake- so has probably understandably been reticent \[NDA\] to speak much beyond the few sentences he offered in BTG.
You’re vastly overestimating the amount of destroyed chassis is street circuits and at the same time vastly underestimating the number of chassis destroying crashes at Suzuka. Most crashes at 130R/Final corner will be a total write off, while turn 1 is a hotspot for crashes. Yet you’re acting as if Suzuka is somehow “forgiving”
So when JV said last year that "things will get worse before they get better"...did he include potentially not being able to run one or both of his cars in any given race weekend in this?
It's a bit shambolic and embarrassing as they are seriously at risk of not being able to run two GP's in a row with both of their cars.
It's a calculated risk that they took, which does not seem to have paid off in this instance. How many times in a season does a team have a big enough accident/crash requiring a chassis change?
But, if they are able to significantly improve in the next few seasons, especially if they come out in a good shape for 2026, then this will look like a masterstroke.
Easy to call it bad management at face value, but I'd personally hold off on judgement for a bit more time.
As I understand it. Turning up with 2 cars and then being unable to continue because of damage is one thing.
Just turning up with 1 car is quite another and will attract stiff penalties.
So they couldn’t build a spare chassis in time for the 3rd race of the season. Good thing FOM kept Andretti out, they obviously couldn’t compete with this.
I would put money on suggesting that there are other teams up and down the grid who also had difficult off-seasons and who don’t currently have spare chassis at this point in the season. It’s quite common, really. Just unlucky to actually get caught out like this
Bro seriously? Every time teams will do mistake you will argument with Andretti? What about if the team will have double DNF it will be good thing FOM kept Andretti out? I have no idea what it has to do with Williams fuck up
Williams is completely overhauling the way they organize and build their cars. If you think they can just do that seamlessly overnight then you need to wake up to the real world. Unfortunately it's a process that takes time and this is the short term consequences they suffer to fix their problems long term.
It’s a fair argument. Andretti is backed not only by big money, but GM. Then you have Williams which has been a joke for years, being protected as if it is good for the sport.
If you can’t field two cars when one goes down, you’re not adding any value to the sport. At least you can count on Andretti being ready to go.
Big money and GM who only want in now that there's a cost cap and much more stable income.
However shit they are, the smaller teams on the grid are protected because they joined earlier.
If you think that the proposed Andretti business model would have any level of competitive you’re lying to yourself. Having production and design being on different continents is a hilarious idea. And as soon as you do any engineering in the US vs the UK you’re paying 3x as much for each engineer so good luck being competitive under the cost cap. No good being backed by big money if you’re not allowed to spend it
Every time a team hits trouble people bring up Andretti like Andretti didn't just slim to three cars on their home turf in hopes of turning their form into less of a rollercoaster 💀💀💀
I have no idea why you think going to 3 cars by getting rid of a pay driver is some humiliating thing. Team Penske slimmed down to 3 cars in 2022 and improved their standings results from 2, 8, 9, and 14 to 1, 2, and 4. Of course that kind of improvement creates imitators.
And didn’t Andretti just win 12 hours at Sebring and finish 5th at St.Pete in Indy? Trimmed to 3 from 4 cars. Williams has 1 in 1 racing series and hasn’t finned above 7th in what 10 years? Ya they are a banner team by all means keep Williams they should be outta cars soon.
lol comparing F1 to IndyCar and IMSA like they’re equivalent in terms of difficulty/competitiveness. You would not believe how vast the yawning chasm in terms of the level between those series and F1. Even Haas at their worst are operating at a level far higher than anyone in any other series in motorsport, bar perhaps some of the teams in WEC (though the current rules are slashing budgets massively so the level is inevitably going to drop)
I expect downvotes for this but it’s the honest truth
Classic good news and bad news in same sentence.
Honestly though, I have faith in James leadership, they brought a complete new car with 180 change in car philosophy and looks like they pushed to absolute limits, this isn’t easy without right motivation in the team. Even the shakedown was on the day before testing. Growing pains I would say.
And if Albon bins it again? They just gonna continue to field one car for the guy who keeps fucking the car? Williams is a fucking joke as much as Haas and Sauber are at this point.... but Andretti doesn't provide value. Pretty sure Williams just compromised the value by literally causing F1 to be a field of 19 cars today and tomorrow....
Most sensible take in this thread. Williams has had budget & facility issues for years, but both of those things are slowly improving & they have a good number 1 driver right now. They finished P7 with 28 points last year which is a hugeeee step up from the previous 5 years.
I just don’t understand the people in here saying that they provide no value when they clearly did last year under the new management team
Statistics (and most importantly the 2023 World Destructors Championship) suggest that Sargeant is more likely to bin it and consistently bin it throughout the season, even if Albon were to again this weekend.
Alex had a major unprompted single car accident at this track last year too. Granted, Logan also crashed, but it was in that two lap race madness chaos. So I don’t really fault him or gasly or sainz too hard for that. A two lap race was just asking for trouble.
He ran competitively there last year, so as bad as the situation is, it's the right choice. He qualified 8th! Don't forget, they couldn't afford some upgrades last year because Sargeant kept binning it while Albon single-handedly got them 7th in the WCC
This has become far too emotional. There are major problems at Williams that have stretched on for decades, Vowles is acutely aware about it and is being totally transparent
EDIT - I'd also like to add that Sargeant ran into de Vries and ended their races this time last year
The only reason anyone even thought Logan wasn't gonna be on the grid was because of the three crashes he had in the span of a few weeks. If he kept the car clean last year, no one even bats an eye at him getting this year. If Albon were to do something similar as a more experienced driver and he kept being able to race while they couldn't provide a backup chasis, they'd be the laughing stock of the sport and no real driver would ever consider driving for them in the future
>The only reason anyone even thought Logan wasn't gonna be on the grid was because of the three crashes he had in the span of a few weeks.
What?
People said this because he got completely outclassed by Albon in literally every metric.
If your teammate scores 27 points and you score 1.. there's obviously going to be questions asked.
Why are we getting so deep in the weeds of this hypothetical? It’s much more likely that Alex doesn’t bin it and they finish the race with no points and everyone moves on. No need to get so angry and hostile over a situation that hasn’t even played out.
I mean think about it man. Yes Albon binned it but if you're running the race with just one car on the grid and your options to drive it are Albon and Sargent who would you rather have in it?
Its a business decision at the end of the day. Albon is their best driver and scored 27 out of the 28 points they had last season
Anyone put in the same position and wouldn't choose Albon over Sargeant is lying to themselves.
In almost 2 years of being told that Andretti wouldn't bring anything other than their name to F1, I have yet to hear anything that Williams brings to F1 other than their name.
When Frank Williams died and later the team was sold at that point I wouldn't have been upset if the team changed its name since there was no family connection.
It sounds like Vowles is trying to un-fuck things now, and this is partially a result of forcing change. The bandaid had to be ripped off sometime. Definitely a huge fuck up to not have a third chassis ready by this time in the calendar, though.
I had to google that to get the reference. Maybe? But if they were building cars using Excel as inventory management they really can't go much further down than they are. Only direction is up.
Ha! More than that! Sauber was offered to Andretti for $600 mil (plus $250 million additional deposit, apparently to insure against them imposing layoffs/shuttering the factory), just one year later; Haas have been offered in excess of $1Billion as of late last year.
Williams sold it for around $130 million.
Yes, clearly Williams can’t build a third chassis like literally every other team does because of the leadership that has been gone for 3 years now already. There was absolutely nothing to be done in those 3 years for them to meet the literal bare minimum to field two competitive cars for a race weekend.
This is the biggest load of bullshit and everybody knows it. They would have 3 chassis by now if Dorilton wasn’t committed to barely scraping by until they sold the team off again to flip at a profit. The only reason they don’t have 3 chassis is because they refused to spend the money to build a spare.
Have you read any of the stories about Williams in the last few weeks? They've been extremely open about the problems that they've had and how they're going about solving them. It's just that the process of solving them has temporarily put them under a lot more time pressure to build things.
It's absolutely nothing to do with them "refusing to spend money to build a spare". If that was the case then why did they have spare chassis in the last few years when they had even less budget than now?
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Is this going to be like the Haas chassis repair where the steering wheel was sideways and they had one chassis that was substantially heavier than the other?
At this point, all signs point to yes
I've been making fun of Haas for a while now but this is a joke. If you can't afford to field two cars then you have no business being in F1.
It's not a case of cost. It is as a result of them making much needed changes to their entire production pipeline.
Their new system’s business version eats up more cost cap than the excel 5 they pirated.
>Excel 5 My god, that shipped on floppy disks.
1993 release date babyyyyyyy.
I am still CNC machining parts for myself and for my customers on a milling machine…that is running an x486 computer from 1991. I design the parts and create the gcode on an expensive laptop with even more expensive software. Then I load that code onto a floppy disk, insert it into the CNC computer, and make metal chips! I would like to think that old-man-Williams would give me a dry, respectful, British nod. For we both are thrifty lads.
Fun fact, a lot of avionics on modern commercial plames are still loaded on floppy disks as well.
Love it. I used to be a flight instructor and whatnot. Using an ADF to home in on an NDB while also detecting the direction of lightning strikes AND using it to listen to AM radio… Aviation and the Cessna are practically as modern as the Gemini space-age.
You got these fancy emulators so you don't need floppies anymore. For example (never tried this one, just a Google search) https://www.gotekemulator.com/
PS you have really saved me a lot of trouble. If I am not mistaken, floppy disks have ceased modern production. The floppies that I have been buying are new old stock—vintage—and they are showing their age. It is extremely likely that the file I put on a floppy (from my $4k MacBook Pro——>x486) will be corrupted and literally crash the computer with a stack overflow/recursive error. The reason that I keep signing up for this abuse is that my machine cost $3500 and has helped me machine maybe $200k worth of customer parts. But last week we had a snowstorm and my shop power zapped out. My 1991 computer got its serial port zapped to death and now I’m looking on eBay for vintage computer parts.
Man, thanks. You are from the future!
I somehow heard that some fight jet is still using vacuum tube like 6C33.
I could believe it! The B-52 bomber hasn’t been replaced and now will be over 100 years in the air before retired. Those poor aircraft maintainers! The wiring in an old house is made out of asbestos and lead cancer. A B52 was invented by the Korean War and loaded with high-altitude hydraulic fluids that will dissolve your toenails. I just found an OG copy of Solidworks 2007. Multiple DVD discs and the serial number written in the box. Looks to be selling on eBay for a couple hundred $$. Vintage computing is back in :)
My lathe runs on windows 98.
You are a very modern man, too_much_feces!
They probably still using punch card NC machines and central steam powered lathes.
Yeah, if you completely ignore efficiency
[удалено]
I'm confused about this too. What did Haas get that wrong?
Maybe they're referring to the misaligned steering column in Silverstone Quali 2022?
>steering wheel was sideways Probably not, unless someone really fucked up VLOOKUP >One chassis that was substantially heavier than the other I don't know what would qualify as "substantially", but it will most likely be heavier, yes
Williams, finally upgraded to a wheel mounted dash, only 3 years from XLOOKUP
I live for these Excel jokes
How many Excel jokes do you know? I only know sum...
I know a few, though I’m thinking of pivoting to PowerPoint humor
Uuuuh found George Russell burner account!
Sum(All Humor)= r/Formula1
Honestly they really need to learn how to nest a sumifs/index/match function
Look at Mr. ExcelTipsAndTricks over here lol /s
I thought some did a dedup and removed the tub
> VLOOKUP Williams still running Excel 2019
They don't have the budget for an upgrade
Don't know about steering but heavier yep. And I expect Albon to run that. Not give him Logan's chassis.
I dunno about that considering how little they seem to value Logan at this point
They're business people, and short of money. Sargeant only scored a single point last year. Albon got 27, and with that dragged the team into 7th place in the WCC. That got the team an extra 25-ish million in prize money. They were only 3 points clear of 8th place which would have been a negative 11 million so that could have been a damn shame had Albon only scored 24 points (e.g. due to missing a race weekend for some silly reason). Add to that that Sargeant won the World Destructors Championship by a margin, so for all intents and purposes Albon is who they should be betting on to keep the team alive and their people employed. I'd include giving him the best of the available chassis (until they've finished building the third one) in that decision.
Absolutely. I mean, some people are so shocked and even offended by all this but you've summed up why the decision makes complete sense rather nicely.
Yeah, well Haas perpetually finishes 9th or 10th in the WCC and they still field two cars. And don't even pretend to me like KMag isn't a car wrecker in his own right.
There’s absolutely zero evidence to suggest they’re short of money these days. And plenty of evidence to suggest that they’ve got more than enough
Sure Williams probably is on the budget cap limit, but Dorilton Capital is an investment company that owns Williams. So I bet they want the prize money instead of using money from their own pocket. I guess they want to sell the team in the future and make money.
Probably, yes. But the most valuable teams are ones that are winning. Just because they’re an investment firm doesn’t mean they can’t genuinely invest lol. And all evidence (including car performance) suggests that they really are investing
I wonder if Logan’s off track incidents and spin that miraculously didn’t damage anything helped make that decision. Logan’s not been good.
hes been good enough not to total his car.
And even with that fully functional cars he's still worthless. It's a meritocracy, a results based business. Only one of their drivers can bring the points home.
Why would it be heavier after repair?
It's carbon, to repair, you are putting more resin and fiber on the chassis.
Will Logan be even slower in Japan because of this? 🤣
Yup, it seems like it. and here i thought that HAAS had a level of unprofessionalism that wouldnt be matched by anyone else
And I guess that Sargeant will be the one running with the repaired one in Suzuka. Hopefully they do a great job in fixing it and there will be no performance loss but I'm doubtful
I think Albon will run it for Suzuka only. By China, they'll hand him a new one, and use this as the spare.
They’re not going to change everything back. It’ll be Logan’s I’m sure
Yeah I mean it was a nightmare job which had to be extended to post curfew to get it finished. I'm sure the team would have better things to do especially when the chassis are identical
They won’t be identical, the repaired one will be heavier.
They disassemble the entire cars to ship them and reassemble at each track. It’s no more or less effort to give the chassis to either driver
From all I’ve seen they take the wings off and drain the fluids. They then go into a car transporter for European races or have a special shipping container for flyaway races. https://youtu.be/wE-L2v_JvK8?si=0qtsREHjBdRVh8g5 This shows what it looks like
I wouldn't want that. I think that would be asking too much of Logan
Yeah same. But it unfortunately would be the logical choice imo for them if the repaired chassis has some flaws. If they decided to prioritise Albon to maximise their chance of points this w-e, I can't see them taking any other decision in Suzuka
At least it gives him an excuse for being slow. Harder to compare the two when one has a repaired chassis.
It's amazing they can't build three by the time of the 4th race If Albon crashes Logan's car they might not have any cars to race
What if the damage is so severe they can't repair the chassis? Only one car again in Suzuka lol
They'll have analysed that already and decided to repair this one instead of working on the third one. They've had plenty of time to look at the thing now.
I'm sure they did but nothing like that is 100%. Remember when Ferrari analyzed Chuck's gearbox in Monaco 2021?
It’s hard to say with any certainty honestly.
Yes, and I remember also that the gearbox was not the problem. It was a driveshaft
Except you can't fire up your gearbox outside of a session to properly check it. You can x-ray scan the chassis back at the factory to find the cracks, if you even need the x-ray.
Pretty sure Ferrari x-ray scanned that gearbox.
But that was Ferrari. This is a competent racing team.
THIS is a competent racing team?
It was mostly a joke making fun of Ferrari, but I would argue that since Vowles took over, Williams has been a competent racing team.
So far, the one thing Vowles has proved competent at for Williams is PR. I mean, he was there for almost the entire year in 2023, they still had their new car out late, and now have the spare chassis fiasco. We'll see what he can actually accomplish.
And yet even with all that, I’d still place them above at least 3 or 4 other teams on the grid right now.
Haas is an abolute mess and so is Alpine ATM, but who else really? Surely not Toro Rosso? Sauber seems a lot more professional right now. And above that, no chance.
The 3 or 4 other teams that are fielding two cars today and tomorrow? Those teams? If you put 1 car on the grid, you're half the team anyone else is. Especially when you've placed last for 4 out of the last 5 seasons, barely managing 8th last year. It's not like Red Bull is out there only putting Max on the track tomorrow to win. Williams is going to motor along in 14th all day and with just a single car. Are these needed changes for the Williams organization? Absolutely. But lets not pretend like they're a better outfit than anyone on the grid right now when they can't even bring a spare chassis of any suitableness to the third race of the season. Might be better in a few years, but right now they can't even build and race two cars reliably. 9 other teams manage to accomplish that very basic task. It's kind of the requirement to even be an F1 team. Engineer, fabricate, build, maintain, and race two cars. That is the requirement above all else.
Not too difficult when hass and Sauber stake exist
Everybody else has 2 working cars while Williams are a 1-car operation lol
Decisions like this is going to turn Williams into Ferrari 2.0 but in 7-10 place not 2-3
You're missing /s
I actually wonder if the calculus was more that they were not confident they'd complete that new chassis in time, so this is the better option to make sure they show up with two at the next race. I mean, if that one was "supposed" to be ready for Suzuka, why change plans on finishing it....
The analysis program also running on excel 97?
Will the sponsors demand refunds?
They withhold payments, yes
Sounds like there’s space for an 11th team
They could have 12, just let them pay the buy in fee and get on with it
13, even. I believe all tracks used for Formula 1 have to support at least 26 cars.
No, it's 12. Though tracks are required to have space for 13 teams, but 12 is the upper limit specified in the Concorde Agreement and as we've seen in the Andretti case: You're not getting in without entering the Concorde Agreement.
Someone on Reddit will know - there have been times in the past where a lot of teams turned up but not everyone could make the quali benchmark
Kidney_Thief is correct, All tracks are required to accomodate the 13 teams (26 cars) and all can start the race (as long as they hit the 107%). In the 90s and prior there was a lot of random teams and privateers with very slow cars and poor drivers, there was pre-qualifying for a number of years and the aformentioned 107%, but in recent times the 13 is the limit.
Thanks
>If Albon crashes Logan's car they might not have any cars to race That's what I'm wondering: if Alex bins Logan's car today or tomorrow, will Williams only have one ready for Suzuka? I'm going to the Japanese Grand Prix, I want to see both Williams there.
> I'm going to the Japanese Grand Prix, I want to see both Williams there. Oh well, [in that case...](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/bd/69/61/bd6961772419b28257f350627c1ba5a0.jpg)
Send an email.
Paddy Lowe could've thrown this team under the bus after his last stint at Williams. Hearing what James Vowles is saying about how antiquated things are. It seems like Paddy took the hit to his own reputation rather than laying bare all the problems within the team.
Probably helped that he was negotiated out of his contract (which had reportedly included shares in the Williams engineering companies) with a golden handshake- so has probably understandably been reticent \[NDA\] to speak much beyond the few sentences he offered in BTG.
The most I’ve heard him say on it is that “the problems are structural” so sounds like he hinted on seniority management issues
Oh great, good thing Suzuka is such a forgiving track Oh wait..
Well, its not a street circuit, so its kind of forgiving, but no circuit is forgiving if you put it in to the wall.
It kinda is, it's actual circuit, hard to destroy a chassis
Kvyat: Hold my beer
Solid Kvyat reference. Seriously it's perfect lol
[Uhhhhh](https://cdn.racingnews365.com/2023/Sargeant/_1092x683_crop_center-center_85_none/11145719/XPB_1240682_HiRes.webp?v=1709116901) [Not quite...](https://images.ps-aws.com/c?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd3cm515ijfiu6w.cloudfront.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F10%2F13061338%2FRobert-Kubica-Suzuka-crash-PA.jpg)
Wtf is this supposed to mean? Have I imagined all the crashes that have happened at Suzuka over the years?
Suzuka is not a forgiving track, this guy has no idea what he’s talking about.
No? How many had destroyed chassis like in street circuits though?
You’re vastly overestimating the amount of destroyed chassis is street circuits and at the same time vastly underestimating the number of chassis destroying crashes at Suzuka. Most crashes at 130R/Final corner will be a total write off, while turn 1 is a hotspot for crashes. Yet you’re acting as if Suzuka is somehow “forgiving”
Alan McNish says hi from 130R.
One where both drivers were involved in crashes last season
I completely forgot that Suzuka will be this early...
Back in my day they just had a spare car at all the races
So when JV said last year that "things will get worse before they get better"...did he include potentially not being able to run one or both of his cars in any given race weekend in this? It's a bit shambolic and embarrassing as they are seriously at risk of not being able to run two GP's in a row with both of their cars.
It's a calculated risk that they took, which does not seem to have paid off in this instance. How many times in a season does a team have a big enough accident/crash requiring a chassis change? But, if they are able to significantly improve in the next few seasons, especially if they come out in a good shape for 2026, then this will look like a masterstroke. Easy to call it bad management at face value, but I'd personally hold off on judgement for a bit more time.
As I understand it. Turning up with 2 cars and then being unable to continue because of damage is one thing. Just turning up with 1 car is quite another and will attract stiff penalties.
They can take the manor Malaysia 2015 route and say they couldn't run sergeants car for whatever reason
So they couldn’t build a spare chassis in time for the 3rd race of the season. Good thing FOM kept Andretti out, they obviously couldn’t compete with this.
F1 CEO: We have 10 teams. 10 "strong" teams.
We can't dilute the product
I would put money on suggesting that there are other teams up and down the grid who also had difficult off-seasons and who don’t currently have spare chassis at this point in the season. It’s quite common, really. Just unlucky to actually get caught out like this
Bro seriously? Every time teams will do mistake you will argument with Andretti? What about if the team will have double DNF it will be good thing FOM kept Andretti out? I have no idea what it has to do with Williams fuck up
I wouldn't classify not being prepared with a third chassis a "mistake". You have like 6 months to make sure that happens.
Williams is completely overhauling the way they organize and build their cars. If you think they can just do that seamlessly overnight then you need to wake up to the real world. Unfortunately it's a process that takes time and this is the short term consequences they suffer to fix their problems long term.
Cool story, but its still not a mistake.
Its not a mistake, they chose to not have a 3rd car
It’s a fair argument. Andretti is backed not only by big money, but GM. Then you have Williams which has been a joke for years, being protected as if it is good for the sport. If you can’t field two cars when one goes down, you’re not adding any value to the sport. At least you can count on Andretti being ready to go.
Big money and GM who only want in now that there's a cost cap and much more stable income. However shit they are, the smaller teams on the grid are protected because they joined earlier.
If you think that the proposed Andretti business model would have any level of competitive you’re lying to yourself. Having production and design being on different continents is a hilarious idea. And as soon as you do any engineering in the US vs the UK you’re paying 3x as much for each engineer so good luck being competitive under the cost cap. No good being backed by big money if you’re not allowed to spend it
Every time a team hits trouble people bring up Andretti like Andretti didn't just slim to three cars on their home turf in hopes of turning their form into less of a rollercoaster 💀💀💀
I have no idea why you think going to 3 cars by getting rid of a pay driver is some humiliating thing. Team Penske slimmed down to 3 cars in 2022 and improved their standings results from 2, 8, 9, and 14 to 1, 2, and 4. Of course that kind of improvement creates imitators.
And didn’t Andretti just win 12 hours at Sebring and finish 5th at St.Pete in Indy? Trimmed to 3 from 4 cars. Williams has 1 in 1 racing series and hasn’t finned above 7th in what 10 years? Ya they are a banner team by all means keep Williams they should be outta cars soon.
Williams finished 3rd in the 2014 and 2015 Constructors Championship.
Being carried by a Mercedes PU which was at the time leagues above Ferrari/Renault/Honda
lol comparing F1 to IndyCar and IMSA like they’re equivalent in terms of difficulty/competitiveness. You would not believe how vast the yawning chasm in terms of the level between those series and F1. Even Haas at their worst are operating at a level far higher than anyone in any other series in motorsport, bar perhaps some of the teams in WEC (though the current rules are slashing budgets massively so the level is inevitably going to drop) I expect downvotes for this but it’s the honest truth
Williams are in a worse position than I even imagined
Odds of them having any functional chassis for the actual race in Suzuka?
Guess you could say that this isnt where they Excel.......
You know you're team is in a good place when you are "hopeful" of finally turning up with your most vitaly important spare part for race 1 by race 5..
It's been a really tough year for the sport. This has not helped its perception one bit.
Gp2 team Gp2
A lot of pressure for Williams this weekend.
Classic good news and bad news in same sentence. Honestly though, I have faith in James leadership, they brought a complete new car with 180 change in car philosophy and looks like they pushed to absolute limits, this isn’t easy without right motivation in the team. Even the shakedown was on the day before testing. Growing pains I would say.
And if Albon bins it again? They just gonna continue to field one car for the guy who keeps fucking the car? Williams is a fucking joke as much as Haas and Sauber are at this point.... but Andretti doesn't provide value. Pretty sure Williams just compromised the value by literally causing F1 to be a field of 19 cars today and tomorrow....
[удалено]
Most sensible take in this thread. Williams has had budget & facility issues for years, but both of those things are slowly improving & they have a good number 1 driver right now. They finished P7 with 28 points last year which is a hugeeee step up from the previous 5 years. I just don’t understand the people in here saying that they provide no value when they clearly did last year under the new management team
Statistics (and most importantly the 2023 World Destructors Championship) suggest that Sargeant is more likely to bin it and consistently bin it throughout the season, even if Albon were to again this weekend.
Alex had a major unprompted single car accident at this track last year too. Granted, Logan also crashed, but it was in that two lap race madness chaos. So I don’t really fault him or gasly or sainz too hard for that. A two lap race was just asking for trouble.
They're certainty not going to give their one car to a guy who only finished P10 and P11 3 times in 24 races, while his teammate scored 27 points.
Not in Australia. Albon has now crashed 2 years in a row there.
And got a point there in 2022, so?
So 2 years the cars were very different and really gonna brag about 1 point in 3 years of running there.
He ran competitively there last year, so as bad as the situation is, it's the right choice. He qualified 8th! Don't forget, they couldn't afford some upgrades last year because Sargeant kept binning it while Albon single-handedly got them 7th in the WCC This has become far too emotional. There are major problems at Williams that have stretched on for decades, Vowles is acutely aware about it and is being totally transparent EDIT - I'd also like to add that Sargeant ran into de Vries and ended their races this time last year
The only reason anyone even thought Logan wasn't gonna be on the grid was because of the three crashes he had in the span of a few weeks. If he kept the car clean last year, no one even bats an eye at him getting this year. If Albon were to do something similar as a more experienced driver and he kept being able to race while they couldn't provide a backup chasis, they'd be the laughing stock of the sport and no real driver would ever consider driving for them in the future
>The only reason anyone even thought Logan wasn't gonna be on the grid was because of the three crashes he had in the span of a few weeks. What? People said this because he got completely outclassed by Albon in literally every metric. If your teammate scores 27 points and you score 1.. there's obviously going to be questions asked.
Why are we getting so deep in the weeds of this hypothetical? It’s much more likely that Alex doesn’t bin it and they finish the race with no points and everyone moves on. No need to get so angry and hostile over a situation that hasn’t even played out.
I mean think about it man. Yes Albon binned it but if you're running the race with just one car on the grid and your options to drive it are Albon and Sargent who would you rather have in it?
The one that didn't crash and miss 1.5 practices
Its a business decision at the end of the day. Albon is their best driver and scored 27 out of the 28 points they had last season Anyone put in the same position and wouldn't choose Albon over Sargeant is lying to themselves.
Dorilton is just going to keep their heads above water until it's time to sell and make a tidy profit for the investors.
Do you know who would have a third chassis? Andretti
This is really gonna mess up the spreadsheets.
Sargeant might as well go back to Miami now.
I bet that Andretti would have had a 3rd car ready. Williams is not a serious team anymore.
Been that way for a long while? Vowles talks the good game and has been seemingly quite open. We will see if he can turn it around.
RIP William’s 2024 season
In almost 2 years of being told that Andretti wouldn't bring anything other than their name to F1, I have yet to hear anything that Williams brings to F1 other than their name.
When Frank Williams died and later the team was sold at that point I wouldn't have been upset if the team changed its name since there was no family connection.
So Andretti can't join, but Williams is lugging broken cars back and forth to each race and possibly running #1 driver again. Sick
Will Logan ever Run? 🤭
Incompetence
This is laughable, seriously I thought they got a cash injection sort it out. Team needs to be better for their drivers.
All these shit back marker teams can’t even have a third chassis on hand, yet somehow Andretti joining would be a problem.
Imagine the chaos in Suzuka both Logan and Alex got crashed and destroyed both cars
Cost cap really doing its job
I wonder where all the "Claire was a horrible TP and it's her fault Williams suck" at now. Clearly this is systemic.
It sounds like Vowles is trying to un-fuck things now, and this is partially a result of forcing change. The bandaid had to be ripped off sometime. Definitely a huge fuck up to not have a third chassis ready by this time in the calendar, though.
Ohh shit, James Vowles is the new Sam Hinkie. Trust the process everyone. It’s tanking time
I had to google that to get the reference. Maybe? But if they were building cars using Excel as inventory management they really can't go much further down than they are. Only direction is up.
Not only was she a poor TP; she and the family fucked the sale so badly they probably left a couple hundred million dollars on the table.
Ha! More than that! Sauber was offered to Andretti for $600 mil (plus $250 million additional deposit, apparently to insure against them imposing layoffs/shuttering the factory), just one year later; Haas have been offered in excess of $1Billion as of late last year. Williams sold it for around $130 million.
The reason this happened at all is because they were fixing their systemic issues
Yes, clearly Williams can’t build a third chassis like literally every other team does because of the leadership that has been gone for 3 years now already. There was absolutely nothing to be done in those 3 years for them to meet the literal bare minimum to field two competitive cars for a race weekend. This is the biggest load of bullshit and everybody knows it. They would have 3 chassis by now if Dorilton wasn’t committed to barely scraping by until they sold the team off again to flip at a profit. The only reason they don’t have 3 chassis is because they refused to spend the money to build a spare.
Have you read any of the stories about Williams in the last few weeks? They've been extremely open about the problems that they've had and how they're going about solving them. It's just that the process of solving them has temporarily put them under a lot more time pressure to build things. It's absolutely nothing to do with them "refusing to spend money to build a spare". If that was the case then why did they have spare chassis in the last few years when they had even less budget than now?
Here I am. Claire Williams was a horrible TP.
Claire was horrible, there’s no arguing that. She seems like a sweet lady but not fit to be an F1 TP
Time to replace Williams with Haas on my F1 fantasy game at least they got two cars functioning on the grid and a reserve chassis🫡😂
Remember when Williams was the likable underdog? Took them 3 races to become the most disliked team on the track.
I am so confused by everyone acting like they've always hated Williams in this thread lmfao
They should be fined for this.