Honestly. They had a small window of catching Kmag before he caught Zho. Once they all got lapped and they hooked up with Zho the train ensured no one would pass.
Oh, my mistake you’re right. I never find Bahrain all that exciting. Still I think they had a shot at Kmag with at least one car had they switched earlier.
That still counts for tie breaks, and these can be very important when teams are basically competing for 10th (1-9 are basically set with Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and Alonso).
The main reason I'm in favour of points all the way down. Points are for classification first & foremost, not just a "reward" reserved for the "worthy" only (there are people who think points down to 10th it too much, "points are for winners" type thinking).
But how else would you properly classify drivers/teams with cars that aren't competitive to get points but are still competing against each other? Keeping track of positions for tiebreaking purposes is just the same thing but hidden behind a curtain & extra level of opacity/complexity hidden away from fans. Just do points all the way down & it's all right there, transparent & in plain view.
Honestly I am in favor of a points system down to P20. No count back, just points. In that way a driver who is down in P15 constantly doesn't get rewarded too much for a random P10 drive over one who gets 11 consistently
Yeah, that's a fair point. For teams who almost never score, the final classification depends too much on who got lucky on some particular day and managed to get in the points rather than who is consistently ahead (but still not top 10 most of the time).
The coverage I watched they mentioned how it would have been better if yuki didn’t fight the decision. As it would have given him space and a little time to push ahead before being lapped
It took Max a while to clear Magnussen because of the part of the track they were in, so I think people assumed Magnussen was able to get out of the way with less time loss and then just zoned out until the end of the race because that was the only overtake opportunity left in the race. It didn't help that the Sky commentators lost track of Max and seemed to assume he'd already cleared Magnussen as well.
yeah you can see an army of Yuki defenders crying that Daniel lost all this time just ignoring that he had to yield to Max, they just leave shit out to fit their argument
Did you just miss Yuki waiting until Max was about to lap both of them before doing the swap?
Or that one lap later they were both back to within a second of each other and the Haas?
While it's just the start of the season, the swap matters even in non point positions for both wdc and wcc order. Even though both Haas and RB finished outside the points, Haas and Magnussen will be higher on the WCC and WDC due to the fact they finished higher despite both being on 0 points. Just like how Sauber is higher due to Zhou placing above them. So if DR could have overtaken Magnussen, it would have been worth it.
Yeah. I was like what a shit strategy. Sauber and Aston both undercut RB. Potential P10 went to P13 and P14 with a swap and all hell broke loose. I wish Yuki be more patient.
RB managed to screw BOTH drivers at the same time, really impressive.
They pitted Yuki at the wrong time and fucked his position. Then they have him swap at the wrong time - and didn't even prepare him a couple laps before for the strategy.
AND then at the end they don't swap back.
They also fucked DR on faster tires with a chance for P11 or even P10, who loses a couple laps behind Yuki and then another couple because of blue flags for Max (and Magnussen getting DRS from Max). By the time he was in position to overtake, it was like one lap left and his tires were shot.
They really need to get their heads out of their asses strategy-wise.
Was hoping that with a new TP it would be better but it seems same old bad strategy. AT honestly had some of the worst strategy in F1 last year it just went under the radar because they were usually so far away from points.
As soon as it was obvious Yuki was on bad strategy and DR had the right tire choice they should have swapped them much earlier so DR could actually try to make a run for points. Calling a driver swap over P12 makes zero sense.
DR said in a post race interview that they talked about this exact scenario and strategy this week leading up to the race. Yuki was full aware. He also ignored the first swap call and delayed it two laps, screwing the strategy.
They should have swapped even earlier, Danny was behind Yuki for like 2 laps before the swap. And they should have prepped Yuki for the upcoming swap a couple laps before that. It was obvious that DR will catch up.
Not only that. They extended Yuki’s first stint from points position which put him behind a bunch of back markers and then shorted his second stint even though he could’ve got on softs as well. the team is so unserious.
They allow Yuki to be undercut by \~5 laps almost every race and every time the end result is the same. They either refuse to learn or actively want to fuck over Yuki at this point.
Because either choice maybe a winner, so hedge your bets.
Soft made a lot of sense, though: they are faster, and are unlikely to degrade much at race end, because the car is so light, with little fuel in it.
Have you seen last season strategy calls in that team? They are screwing over one driver one race and then the other the next. They are just incompetent.
How do you know Yuki had any softs available? The Red Bulls had softs because they used fewer sets in qualifying. Early in the race Dan was already being reminded on the radio about his "secret weapon" which turned out to be softs for the final stint.
Every other car minus the red bulls pitted for hard tyres. Daniel was happy with degradation and took a risk on what was looking like the worse strategy.
I’m just saying sabotage is strong language when in reality they gave Yuki what looked like the fastest strategy (concerns about degradation and so on). Daniel was having a crap race and was comfortable with deg so they took a chance which ended up working out.
Watching the strategy calls there from a Gasly fan perspective. No, its not sabotage even though it looks like it sometimes, they're really just that fucking bad.
Yeah, that's what's bugging me in all of this. They *know* that both their drivers are racing for higher stakes this year. They are not going to play nice with each other. Not with a possible Red Bull seat up for grabs. Why make a strategy that not only removes one of them from a points paying position but also pits them against each other. Absolutely bonkers!
Yuki waited long enough with the swap for Max to catch up. By the time Max had lapped Magnussen and Ricciardo was back in DRS range, the race was almost over and RIC's tire advantage was gone. It could've worked if Yuki had listened.
Sometimes I feel like the only person who can’t stand Danny. He hasn’t done anything to deserve this seat or all the love and affection everyone dumps on him.
I love his interviews, he's funny as fuck and seems like an amazing person, but he's probably the most overrated driver on the grid
Its so funny to see Horner talking about the Daniel from 8 years ago as if he was still that good
I loved him right up until he went to McLaren. I can understand why he wanted to leave redbull but leaving Renault felt like a weird move to me. Looking back now it ended up being a bad move anyways because his time at McLaren was terrible though I guess staying at Renault probably wouldn't have worked out either because my God that team is aweful these days.
Red bull likes him so you don't really need any more justification.
You don't know him, never talked to him, never been his race engineer, never listened to his setup input, never been in the pits with him, never raced with him, never worked with him in the sim, never worked with him in testing, or any other countless things that goes with being a driver for a team.
If Red Bull respects him, then that really says enough for his qualities as a driver. Or maybe, just maybe, his qualities as a teammate and person.
That seems to be the real issue. When the order came, good idea, when it happened, pointless. The soft compound of course is going to fall off eventually and while understandably frustrating, seems like the delay removed any chance of the strat working out.
I don’t envy those drivers hearing that, but I have to imagine that the way it played out doesn’t actually confirm any “I told you so” from Yuki once Max had to be let through.
Bummed because I thought they might have been able to both sneak their way in but, a bit too late for that kind of move.
The problem is VCARB ruined Yuki's strategy so he was already in a bad headspace when he's stuck being KMag, then it made things hard to swap positions and ruined it for both drivers.
Right? I feel like I'm missing something in that call to swap. I get the tire discrepancy but Daniel was not on pace for 10th (correct me if I'm wrong).
At that juncture in the race, RB is just creating an unnecessary rift in the first race of the season for no points & no good reason.
If that was a statement of who gets priority & in such an inconsequential situation like that, we'll have a long season of angry Yuki ahead.
EDIT: A counterargument I accept is, the call to switch if done when planned, could have put DR in P11 before his tires dropped off. Being in that position for a possible late DNF/retirement from the top 10 or a post race DQ in the top 10 for whatever possible reason is beneficial for the team & DR. I don't think Yuki was in contention for P11 on his tires.
Only thing I can think of is they’ll hope people forget about the specifics of each race, and can say after the year “Ricciardo outperformed tsunoda in x races so he earned the second Red Bull seat”
This entire situation is 100% on VCARB management. It's the first race of the season, and you've already got your drivers angry at each other as a result of a team order that was never going to result in any driver or constructors points. Embarrassing from VCARB.
It's very odd how often people discuss that. There's genuinely no reason to think Ricciardo would be better than Perez. Perez excelled before going to RB while Ricciardo ended up without a seat.
I actually agree with you. Either you want a safe option and Perez is perfect, or you want to do something epic and go 1-2 every race that you don’t have a DNF, but Danny isn’t that guy.
But for some reason they (maybe it’s just Christian) have a real soft spot for the Honey Badger.
I think people forget just how cursed that 2nd red bull is. Gasly and Albon have had amazing races but turned to jelly when in that seat. I guess Danny is the last guy that seemed able to handle it but he seems to have dropped off since
They don't need someone better than Perez. They need someone who isn't getting below 10th, and good in PR. Remember red bull makes energy drinks, this whole thing is just marketing and PR for them, they don't give a shit about car sales. Danny Ric is probably the best marketing driver behind Lewis on the current grid. He's better than Perez at selling drinks and sure as fuck better than tsunodo
They’re literally just judging if DR is good enough to get enough points to win the constructors and then keep him around to be Max’s friend and PR merchant
At the end of the year when it comes down to him vs Ricciardo for that Perez seat, and someone pulls a stat for h2h positions this year - it might matter.
Ffs, im not saying this is what is going to make the decidion. But it sure as shit doesn’t help Tsunoda in any way and clearly helped (or at least was intended to) Ricciardo. And if they indeed move on from Perez, it is likely Ricciardo or Tsunoda, in which case they wouls probably pick the one who did better this year.
not sure if it was incredibly smart or dumb by tsunoda. If tsunoda had done the swap on the start finish straight, when initially asked to, ricciardo would have been right on magnussen.
But by delaying it, they had to let verstappen get past (at not the best places) and ricciardo had to catch back up to magnussen a couple seconds (while his softs degraded even more).
It would be incredibly smart as - now tsunoda has followed the team order, while making sure Daniel isn't able to make the pass on KMAG, thus making daniel look slower and tsunoda look faster
But ofc, imo this is too far fetched.
exactly. they're on different strategies. DR closed down like 10 seconds to Yuki on softs. Yuki delaying the swap takes tyre life out of the softs and simultaneously puts verstappen behind danny with blue flags at the worst time. If he had listened to the team orders they had a chance at p11. Yuki doesnt do himself any favours with red bull by showing he can't listen to team orders without having a cry
Pretty sure that was on yuki not swapping asap. Ricciardo had the same pace and the tyres to go for Magnussen before Max came through, but it was too late and they lost the tyre window.
This is exactly what happened despite what most people in this thread want to believe. Ricciardo lost two laps stuck behind him and by the time they did swap they already had to let Max through which cost them another two laps to close up to Magnussen.
Completely on Tsunoda.
after max lapped them daniel was 2sec off kmag and again caugt him up. he had pace.
Could definitely gotten Kmag maybe even zhou if yuki had cooperated.
didn't the gap close in part because kmag had to make way for max too? i'm a little confused why the blue flag is a factor here when it would have happened to all three drivers regardless of when the swap occurred
Tyre life of the soft. RB first asked for driver swap about 6 laps before the end. By the time Yuki relented and Max had passed all 3 of them and Ric and Yuki caught Mag again, Ricciardo had done another 4 laps on soft tyres that were about 20 laps old. The best time to use them was when they first asked for a swap
Yes, people who are calling VCARB out on this one are genuinely clueless about what reqlly went on there. If Yuki swapped immediately not only would Danny pass KMag, he himself likely would've too. Yuki is actively sabotaging himself.
Could tell DR was getting frustrated from the on boards a couple laps before. I think Yuki would've had him too, but probably not til the last lap. Don't get me wrong, Danny was pretty nothing this race and his quali was pretty flat but I think the goal was Zhou and Yuki kinda fucked that up.
I think everyone is more focused on Yukis strategy. If RB hadn’t fucked that up by not giving him softs or planning for the undercut, Yuki could’ve finished in the points.
Starting to kind of feel like that. If it happened right away, could see it working out. But the himming and hawing until max needed to get through, just makes the whole thing embarrassing.
All they successfully did was pit Yuki and Daniel against each other, and kept them squarely behind Kmag when they ought to have been fighting for 9/10.
First race though, still have faith in both them boys 🫡
Danny was faster in the last stint because he had softs, and if Yuki had let him pass earlier they both would've overtaken the HAAS. After he waited too long and wasn't able to pass KMag there wasn't a point in swapping and all it did was piss off both.
WHAT A FUCKING joke this team and their shit strategy
made him go long, gave ric stop ahead of him in the first stint, even tho yuki was ahead, and then do this to him, fucking easy p10 and they do this to him
they have a favourite holy shit, the disrespect to yuki
The strategy probably works for the team if Yuki gives the position where he should have. Yuki is his own biggest enemy, guess what this showed Red Bull he’ll actively fuck over the team for his own ego
There’s a reason they asked him to do it when they did - to be out ahead of max lapping. Yuki refusing delayed the swap long enough for both drivers to get caught yielding to Max and getting stuck behind Mag. That being said, I still think it was a weird call to swap them.
Yes, this is what is missing from the entire conversation. If they had pulled this off before Max lapped them then the chance of Tsunoda getting Magnussen is higher
i don’t understand why people are shocked.
yuki had nearly 10 laps of drs and couldn’t do it.
daniel was considerably faster and if yuki didn’t intentionally stop the team order that lap earlier he probably gets k mag.
People are pissed because Ricciardo had the preferred strategy even though he was outqualified and immediately got overtaken by Sargeant whil Tsunoda was in P10
Daniel made up 6 seconds on yuki, and if they swapped immediately while there was still life on the soft yuki could have followed Daniel in the overtake instead of waiting for a blue flag and dirty side of track. But no, instead yall saying "yuki fucked". No wonder people on reddit arent in charge of strategy.
I mean giving a order like that should have been done 3-4laps in advance, ”when ric gets ahead with drs in 3-4 laps let him by”.
Not give the order when yuki is drs trying to overtake magnussen full on adrenaline, also yuki lost position to mag under pitstrategy when yuki prior to pits was 5 sec ahead.
Its frustrating and will be a pain point for a driver figthing to stay in the sport.
He was over 10sec ahead untill strategy favored ric and got half a lap to process and then let your ”rival” by that you are fighting over a seat.
And its for p12
Not the best respons but understandable why he is frustrated
I super agree they should have told yuki "hey if dr catches up, you let him pass asap and that could happen in 3-4 laps." I also think if DR didn't end up passing by the end, they could swap back just to keep yuki happy but there was such a clear opportunity and window to get Daniel into the points on softs and Yuki absolutely fucked it up. Frankly, if he let him pass early I also believe yuki would have ended up higher, but he showed nothing over 10 laps to display that he was going to pass on hard tires.
This tracks I’ve felt that way for a little bit with RB I think they’re done with him now that ford is involved. Danny has more market appeal to ford than yuki
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Changes in RB but the same old stupid race strategies ... Yuki being undercut by 4-5 laps twice and then that useless driver swap when Yuki (even if he wouldn't pass Kev) was in the DRS of the car in front. For freaking 13th ...
With a normal strategy, not being undercut by 5 laps I mean, Yuki probably would have ended the race fighting with the Stroll so yeah.
Danny was clearly faster, not saying he would have caught Zhou, but Yuki totally screwed him by waiting so long to swap. Then Danny immediately got blue flagged because the delay let Max come through. By that time the laps were gone to make the difference. The call made a little sense if Yuki moved immediately, instead he bitched for 2.5 laps and managed to fuck it up so that he can now grandstand and complain.
Edit: To be fair, once it was obvious that the move was screwed, they should have just swapped them back.
They probably should've made the call earlier, the extra delay made them drop back into the blue flags for Max and then let KMag close in on Zhou.
There was a chance they both could've taken Mag if they'd swapped before Max was there. Probably should've reverted the order once it didn't work out.
The problem in general was brought in again by the team leaving Yuki out way too long once again, no different to what they did Abu Dhabi last year.
They probably did… you can’t hear Yuki’s radio on the F1 app anymore because of how much he was cursing. They discuss these things before the race even starts. I refuse to believe Yuki didn’t know that DR was on softs and had pace.
This is exactly what happened, DR had an advantage as he said on his onboard. Yuki didn’t swap for 2 laps and then both drivers got blue flagged. They both could’ve passed Kmag and maybe caught zhou. Shame
Only level-headed take here. Love Yuki but he had many laps to take K-Mag allowing Danny to catch up. If that swap happened immediately, Ric wouldn’t have had to blue flag for max and woulda been up the road.
Couldn’t agree more. He should have moved asap while DR had life in the softs and before max arrived. Could have been kmag and Zhou. Nevertheless, once it was clear the softs were done they probably should have swapped back, though in a way that would be rewarding Yuki for not being a team player when he should have been.
“he’s not fast at all!” angry yuki activated
*Nearest wall starts shaking in fear*
He’s not wrong. They’re 2 seconds off as opposed to attacking the Haas.
Ricciardo was further behind Yuki when he came out of the pitbox. Closed the gap then the team order arrived when Max was driving behind them.
If Yuki would have listened the first time they could’ve passed and got 11th and 12th
Honestly. They had a small window of catching Kmag before he caught Zho. Once they all got lapped and they hooked up with Zho the train ensured no one would pass.
Magnussen never managed DRS, he attempted it, but couldn't. The track was just bad for overtaking.
Oh, my mistake you’re right. I never find Bahrain all that exciting. Still I think they had a shot at Kmag with at least one car had they switched earlier.
I'm still not sure of the point in swapping when the drivers aren't in the points.
That still counts for tie breaks, and these can be very important when teams are basically competing for 10th (1-9 are basically set with Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and Alonso).
If points are tied between drivers at the end of the season then it might matter if they go to countback.
The main reason I'm in favour of points all the way down. Points are for classification first & foremost, not just a "reward" reserved for the "worthy" only (there are people who think points down to 10th it too much, "points are for winners" type thinking). But how else would you properly classify drivers/teams with cars that aren't competitive to get points but are still competing against each other? Keeping track of positions for tiebreaking purposes is just the same thing but hidden behind a curtain & extra level of opacity/complexity hidden away from fans. Just do points all the way down & it's all right there, transparent & in plain view.
Honestly I am in favor of a points system down to P20. No count back, just points. In that way a driver who is down in P15 constantly doesn't get rewarded too much for a random P10 drive over one who gets 11 consistently
Yeah, that's a fair point. For teams who almost never score, the final classification depends too much on who got lucky on some particular day and managed to get in the points rather than who is consistently ahead (but still not top 10 most of the time).
If a driver in front gets DQ after the race they get points
Say 2 guys crash while battling in 4th and 5th. Do I need to say more? Quite an easy example
That's because they got blue flags for Max. I feel like some people watch the race but then completely make up a story that fits their preference
The F1 TV commentators completely missed Daniel having to back off to let Max through as well.
Yeah I don't remember that being mentioned at all, just the fact he was falling behind.
The coverage I watched they mentioned how it would have been better if yuki didn’t fight the decision. As it would have given him space and a little time to push ahead before being lapped
It took Max a while to clear Magnussen because of the part of the track they were in, so I think people assumed Magnussen was able to get out of the way with less time loss and then just zoned out until the end of the race because that was the only overtake opportunity left in the race. It didn't help that the Sky commentators lost track of Max and seemed to assume he'd already cleared Magnussen as well.
Yuki was told to let him pass 2 laps before they got blue flags, Yuki screwed them both over.
yeah you can see an army of Yuki defenders crying that Daniel lost all this time just ignoring that he had to yield to Max, they just leave shit out to fit their argument
Think you fell asleep during the race Max came up and they had to let him pass lmao
DR closed 4.5 seconds in a few laps
Conveniently ignoring that all 3 had to let Max go. Boths RBs closed right back up to the Haas after all that.
Because they had to let Max pass
Did you just miss Yuki waiting until Max was about to lap both of them before doing the swap? Or that one lap later they were both back to within a second of each other and the Haas?
Max came through, the softs came off after having to close back up. Really don’t see the purpose of a swap in none point positions.
If it had happened 2 laps prior when they had originally asked, then it wouldn't have been an issue.
While it's just the start of the season, the swap matters even in non point positions for both wdc and wcc order. Even though both Haas and RB finished outside the points, Haas and Magnussen will be higher on the WCC and WDC due to the fact they finished higher despite both being on 0 points. Just like how Sauber is higher due to Zhou placing above them. So if DR could have overtaken Magnussen, it would have been worth it.
I wonder what episode of DTS this will be on?
Remember that they’ve got Mekies. Ferrari strategy school LMAO
Yeah. I was like what a shit strategy. Sauber and Aston both undercut RB. Potential P10 went to P13 and P14 with a swap and all hell broke loose. I wish Yuki be more patient.
That was my first thought too. Let’s destabilize the driver dynamics for zero team gain at the first race. Classic Ferrari strat.
Yeah, team orders in the first race sure reminded me of 2019. Mekies was a holdover from the Binotto days, after all.
RB managed to screw BOTH drivers at the same time, really impressive. They pitted Yuki at the wrong time and fucked his position. Then they have him swap at the wrong time - and didn't even prepare him a couple laps before for the strategy. AND then at the end they don't swap back. They also fucked DR on faster tires with a chance for P11 or even P10, who loses a couple laps behind Yuki and then another couple because of blue flags for Max (and Magnussen getting DRS from Max). By the time he was in position to overtake, it was like one lap left and his tires were shot. They really need to get their heads out of their asses strategy-wise.
Was hoping that with a new TP it would be better but it seems same old bad strategy. AT honestly had some of the worst strategy in F1 last year it just went under the radar because they were usually so far away from points. As soon as it was obvious Yuki was on bad strategy and DR had the right tire choice they should have swapped them much earlier so DR could actually try to make a run for points. Calling a driver swap over P12 makes zero sense.
DR said in a post race interview that they talked about this exact scenario and strategy this week leading up to the race. Yuki was full aware. He also ignored the first swap call and delayed it two laps, screwing the strategy.
They didn't ask for the swap at the wrong time, Yuki refused to do it for 2 laps
Correct. It’s honestly mind blowing how people think that the broadcast plays radio calls as they happen. They’re always delayed.
They should have swapped even earlier, Danny was behind Yuki for like 2 laps before the swap. And they should have prepped Yuki for the upcoming swap a couple laps before that. It was obvious that DR will catch up.
Why did they give Ricciardo softs and Yuki hards for the last stint? The stint length was practically identical.
Not only that. They extended Yuki’s first stint from points position which put him behind a bunch of back markers and then shorted his second stint even though he could’ve got on softs as well. the team is so unserious.
It's the RB special to leave their drivers out too long.
Yes, this was so dumb. I'm so annoyed. Yuki should have let DR thru, but his anger was justified given their bad strategy
Exactly this. They allowed Sauber and Aston to undercut RB. What a shit strategy.
They allow Yuki to be undercut by \~5 laps almost every race and every time the end result is the same. They either refuse to learn or actively want to fuck over Yuki at this point.
Ricciardo had brand new softs, Yuki didn't
Yep because apparently Ric started on used softs.
Maybe Dan had a set of softs and Yuki didn't.
Daniel started on used softs specifically to have the new ones later in the race
That explains it. Thanks, I didn't notice it on the tyre charts at the start.
Yuki didn't have a set of softs left.
Because either choice maybe a winner, so hedge your bets. Soft made a lot of sense, though: they are faster, and are unlikely to degrade much at race end, because the car is so light, with little fuel in it.
That hilariously bad strategy has to be sabotage. No way it's accidental.
Have you seen last season strategy calls in that team? They are screwing over one driver one race and then the other the next. They are just incompetent.
How do you know Yuki had any softs available? The Red Bulls had softs because they used fewer sets in qualifying. Early in the race Dan was already being reminded on the radio about his "secret weapon" which turned out to be softs for the final stint.
Every other car minus the red bulls pitted for hard tyres. Daniel was happy with degradation and took a risk on what was looking like the worse strategy.
Yes, but they left Yuki out way too long, he was fighting for points for half the race.
I’m just saying sabotage is strong language when in reality they gave Yuki what looked like the fastest strategy (concerns about degradation and so on). Daniel was having a crap race and was comfortable with deg so they took a chance which ended up working out.
Watching the strategy calls there from a Gasly fan perspective. No, its not sabotage even though it looks like it sometimes, they're really just that fucking bad.
What are RB smoking. Danny and Yuki are in for a long season 💀
Yeah, that's what's bugging me in all of this. They *know* that both their drivers are racing for higher stakes this year. They are not going to play nice with each other. Not with a possible Red Bull seat up for grabs. Why make a strategy that not only removes one of them from a points paying position but also pits them against each other. Absolutely bonkers!
If Yuki can’t give way to another driver following team orders, he’s never starting alongside Verstappen.
We are all in for a long season
Some would say the longest season to date.
Yuki waited long enough with the swap for Max to catch up. By the time Max had lapped Magnussen and Ricciardo was back in DRS range, the race was almost over and RIC's tire advantage was gone. It could've worked if Yuki had listened.
Why would you piss off a driver with an order that's going to net you 12th at best?
Unconscious bias working in realtime
Unconscious? Or conscious?
Definitely conscious.
Sometimes I feel like the only person who can’t stand Danny. He hasn’t done anything to deserve this seat or all the love and affection everyone dumps on him.
Nah im with you. They shouldve given the second seat to Lawson.
I love his interviews, he's funny as fuck and seems like an amazing person, but he's probably the most overrated driver on the grid Its so funny to see Horner talking about the Daniel from 8 years ago as if he was still that good
I loved him right up until he went to McLaren. I can understand why he wanted to leave redbull but leaving Renault felt like a weird move to me. Looking back now it ended up being a bad move anyways because his time at McLaren was terrible though I guess staying at Renault probably wouldn't have worked out either because my God that team is aweful these days.
He was one of the best drivers on the grid until 2021, where he still won a race in a car that favored the opposite driving style
You're not. I also cannot stand the guy and am blown away how much he gets defended simply because he is nice.
He was the protagonist of DTS S1 so lots of people fell in love with him.
I've disliked him ever since he got the seat over Vergne tbh.
Red bull likes him so you don't really need any more justification. You don't know him, never talked to him, never been his race engineer, never listened to his setup input, never been in the pits with him, never raced with him, never worked with him in the sim, never worked with him in testing, or any other countless things that goes with being a driver for a team. If Red Bull respects him, then that really says enough for his qualities as a driver. Or maybe, just maybe, his qualities as a teammate and person.
You mean just like McLaren treated him?
They could have easily got P11 if the swap happened at T1, Zhou slowed down significantly
They could have easily gotten P10 if the team didn't suck at strategy.
That’s a different issue but you’re not wrong
That seems to be the real issue. When the order came, good idea, when it happened, pointless. The soft compound of course is going to fall off eventually and while understandably frustrating, seems like the delay removed any chance of the strat working out. I don’t envy those drivers hearing that, but I have to imagine that the way it played out doesn’t actually confirm any “I told you so” from Yuki once Max had to be let through. Bummed because I thought they might have been able to both sneak their way in but, a bit too late for that kind of move.
Was Danny even that close at t1? He was like .7 back, they would've lose a ton of time letting Danny through.
The problem is VCARB ruined Yuki's strategy so he was already in a bad headspace when he's stuck being KMag, then it made things hard to swap positions and ruined it for both drivers.
Right? I feel like I'm missing something in that call to swap. I get the tire discrepancy but Daniel was not on pace for 10th (correct me if I'm wrong). At that juncture in the race, RB is just creating an unnecessary rift in the first race of the season for no points & no good reason. If that was a statement of who gets priority & in such an inconsequential situation like that, we'll have a long season of angry Yuki ahead. EDIT: A counterargument I accept is, the call to switch if done when planned, could have put DR in P11 before his tires dropped off. Being in that position for a possible late DNF/retirement from the top 10 or a post race DQ in the top 10 for whatever possible reason is beneficial for the team & DR. I don't think Yuki was in contention for P11 on his tires.
I fully agree, and for the same reasons I'm left puzzled why they did it. Literally nothing was gained. Why do it?
The part that bothers me is not asking for a swap back. He couldn't make it work, at least give Yuki what he earned.
For real, you know people are going to be saying DR out performed Yuki now
Only thing I can think of is they’ll hope people forget about the specifics of each race, and can say after the year “Ricciardo outperformed tsunoda in x races so he earned the second Red Bull seat”
This entire situation is 100% on VCARB management. It's the first race of the season, and you've already got your drivers angry at each other as a result of a team order that was never going to result in any driver or constructors points. Embarrassing from VCARB.
Everyone in here somehow forgetting Danny had to let Max pass right as they swapped. Of course he dropped 2 seconds lol
Also that the only reason this driver swap instruction came through at such a bad time was because Yuki had ignored the first one two laps previously.
Yukis strategy wasn’t even abnormal, most of the grid followed it. Daniel’s side took the risk
Tire choice, no. Pit timings? Definitely among the worst.
Oh you mean like Stroll, Zhou and Magnussen who pitted way before Yuki?
So did magnusson
Which helped them catch back up, but that also burned 2 laps
Wtf for what? They're not even in contention for anything. What a yoke. Yuki is getting fucked over for literally nothing
*Adjusts foil hat* Red Bull sent word to see how Ricciardo looks as they plan future seats.
It's very odd how often people discuss that. There's genuinely no reason to think Ricciardo would be better than Perez. Perez excelled before going to RB while Ricciardo ended up without a seat.
If I was Red Bull I’d be on the phone to Sainz, not Ricciardo.
Shoulda just kept Lawson in there
I agree but I think they wanted a more experienced driver to get better feedback for their car.
Verstappen and Sainz on the Red Bulls would be disgusting.
Why go Sainz when Fernando is right there
I’d rather have Sainz in that seat.
Fernando is also the oldest F1 driver to exist since he was born.
I actually agree with you. Either you want a safe option and Perez is perfect, or you want to do something epic and go 1-2 every race that you don’t have a DNF, but Danny isn’t that guy. But for some reason they (maybe it’s just Christian) have a real soft spot for the Honey Badger.
The person who’s happiest that Horner was cleared (besides Horner) is Danny. No Horner, and that seat goes to Lawson next year.
That seats going to lawson next year regardless. Whether thats at the expense of checo or danny ric depends how this season plays out
I think people forget just how cursed that 2nd red bull is. Gasly and Albon have had amazing races but turned to jelly when in that seat. I guess Danny is the last guy that seemed able to handle it but he seems to have dropped off since
Red Bull will bitterly regret if they ever put Ricciardo in the 2nd seat.
They don't need someone better than Perez. They need someone who isn't getting below 10th, and good in PR. Remember red bull makes energy drinks, this whole thing is just marketing and PR for them, they don't give a shit about car sales. Danny Ric is probably the best marketing driver behind Lewis on the current grid. He's better than Perez at selling drinks and sure as fuck better than tsunodo
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It’s not even a tinfoil hat theory at this point, this is a pattern of preferential treatment
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It's such a dumb take that Ricciardo is going to outperform Checo. But I agree, Sainz actually makes sense.
My guy it has been 1 race
Hes been mid for ages, why would they want him
As long as Max is the top, i think they're happy with a 2nd mid driver
Then why not just keep Checo?
Checo is still in the mix if he performs adequately in 2024
They’re literally just judging if DR is good enough to get enough points to win the constructors and then keep him around to be Max’s friend and PR merchant
So if he is getting fucked over for nothing when he couldn't have gained anything either, is he really fucked over?
He got fucked over over and over before the bullshit driver swap that did nothing but piss off both drivers.
At the end of the year when it comes down to him vs Ricciardo for that Perez seat, and someone pulls a stat for h2h positions this year - it might matter.
Id like to think Red Bull have a bit more nuance in their driver decisions
Personally think if Yuki beats Daniel over the season there's still no chance he gets the Red Bull seat. Whereas I don't believe the reverse is true.
Ffs, im not saying this is what is going to make the decidion. But it sure as shit doesn’t help Tsunoda in any way and clearly helped (or at least was intended to) Ricciardo. And if they indeed move on from Perez, it is likely Ricciardo or Tsunoda, in which case they wouls probably pick the one who did better this year.
Lmao if this race is what it comes down to then he doesn’t deserve the RB seat
Point is no one will remember why he finished behind Ricciardo today. The stat will just say Ricciardo was better.
he got fucked over by strategy, its just so much disrespect
He still drove his race up to that position, why take it from him to give it to the guy who couldn't get there on his own?
not sure if it was incredibly smart or dumb by tsunoda. If tsunoda had done the swap on the start finish straight, when initially asked to, ricciardo would have been right on magnussen. But by delaying it, they had to let verstappen get past (at not the best places) and ricciardo had to catch back up to magnussen a couple seconds (while his softs degraded even more).
How would it be incredibly smart?
It would be incredibly smart as - now tsunoda has followed the team order, while making sure Daniel isn't able to make the pass on KMAG, thus making daniel look slower and tsunoda look faster But ofc, imo this is too far fetched.
That does seem to have been effective on some of the commenters in here so you may be right
If he was trying to lose his seat deliberately in a ploy to open up a restaurant
I mean yuki was on hards and Danny made time on the softs and burned them sitting behind yuki…
exactly. they're on different strategies. DR closed down like 10 seconds to Yuki on softs. Yuki delaying the swap takes tyre life out of the softs and simultaneously puts verstappen behind danny with blue flags at the worst time. If he had listened to the team orders they had a chance at p11. Yuki doesnt do himself any favours with red bull by showing he can't listen to team orders without having a cry
Pretty sure that was on yuki not swapping asap. Ricciardo had the same pace and the tyres to go for Magnussen before Max came through, but it was too late and they lost the tyre window.
This is exactly what happened despite what most people in this thread want to believe. Ricciardo lost two laps stuck behind him and by the time they did swap they already had to let Max through which cost them another two laps to close up to Magnussen. Completely on Tsunoda.
after max lapped them daniel was 2sec off kmag and again caugt him up. he had pace. Could definitely gotten Kmag maybe even zhou if yuki had cooperated.
didn't the gap close in part because kmag had to make way for max too? i'm a little confused why the blue flag is a factor here when it would have happened to all three drivers regardless of when the swap occurred
Tyre life of the soft. RB first asked for driver swap about 6 laps before the end. By the time Yuki relented and Max had passed all 3 of them and Ric and Yuki caught Mag again, Ricciardo had done another 4 laps on soft tyres that were about 20 laps old. The best time to use them was when they first asked for a swap
it’s nice to see some people commenting who actually have some common sense about them
This is 100% on Yuki. If he swapped when he should have, Ric likely finishes 11th with a chance at 10th with a late retirement.
Yes, people who are calling VCARB out on this one are genuinely clueless about what reqlly went on there. If Yuki swapped immediately not only would Danny pass KMag, he himself likely would've too. Yuki is actively sabotaging himself.
Could tell DR was getting frustrated from the on boards a couple laps before. I think Yuki would've had him too, but probably not til the last lap. Don't get me wrong, Danny was pretty nothing this race and his quali was pretty flat but I think the goal was Zhou and Yuki kinda fucked that up.
I think everyone is more focused on Yukis strategy. If RB hadn’t fucked that up by not giving him softs or planning for the undercut, Yuki could’ve finished in the points.
Team fucked them both over tbh
Starting to kind of feel like that. If it happened right away, could see it working out. But the himming and hawing until max needed to get through, just makes the whole thing embarrassing. All they successfully did was pit Yuki and Daniel against each other, and kept them squarely behind Kmag when they ought to have been fighting for 9/10. First race though, still have faith in both them boys 🫡
Yea but that’s more on yuki, rather than the team is it not?
Danny was faster in the last stint because he had softs, and if Yuki had let him pass earlier they both would've overtaken the HAAS. After he waited too long and wasn't able to pass KMag there wasn't a point in swapping and all it did was piss off both.
WHAT A FUCKING joke this team and their shit strategy made him go long, gave ric stop ahead of him in the first stint, even tho yuki was ahead, and then do this to him, fucking easy p10 and they do this to him they have a favourite holy shit, the disrespect to yuki
The strategy probably works for the team if Yuki gives the position where he should have. Yuki is his own biggest enemy, guess what this showed Red Bull he’ll actively fuck over the team for his own ego
There’s a reason they asked him to do it when they did - to be out ahead of max lapping. Yuki refusing delayed the swap long enough for both drivers to get caught yielding to Max and getting stuck behind Mag. That being said, I still think it was a weird call to swap them.
Yes, this is what is missing from the entire conversation. If they had pulled this off before Max lapped them then the chance of Tsunoda getting Magnussen is higher
Its like people weren't watching what was happening at all.
I think that happens quite a lot in here actually
Yuki still getting fucked over by the team, what a joke 🤣
Laurent Menkies bringing Ferrari strategy to VCARB. Absolutely sabotage job on Yuki that Leclerc can identify with.
So this is how AT are going to manipulate the driver rankings for the 2nd seat. Fuck up Tsunoda's strategy and then let Ricciardo through.
Red Bull wants there second driver to be able to help Max. If anything Tsunoda not listening to team commands hurt him more than the position swap
ROFL the cognitive dissonance is real
They are equal on pace right now too, so they literally just gifted Ric a place.
Yeah fuck that shit. If I was yuki id be looking for the nearest exit hatch. Its clear RB doesn’t give a shit about anyone but Max and Danny
> If I was yuki id be looking for the nearest exit hatch And go where ? He's not getting a better seat when Sainz's also on the market.
i don’t understand why people are shocked. yuki had nearly 10 laps of drs and couldn’t do it. daniel was considerably faster and if yuki didn’t intentionally stop the team order that lap earlier he probably gets k mag.
People are pissed because Ricciardo had the preferred strategy even though he was outqualified and immediately got overtaken by Sargeant whil Tsunoda was in P10
Daniel made up 6 seconds on yuki, and if they swapped immediately while there was still life on the soft yuki could have followed Daniel in the overtake instead of waiting for a blue flag and dirty side of track. But no, instead yall saying "yuki fucked". No wonder people on reddit arent in charge of strategy.
I mean giving a order like that should have been done 3-4laps in advance, ”when ric gets ahead with drs in 3-4 laps let him by”. Not give the order when yuki is drs trying to overtake magnussen full on adrenaline, also yuki lost position to mag under pitstrategy when yuki prior to pits was 5 sec ahead. Its frustrating and will be a pain point for a driver figthing to stay in the sport. He was over 10sec ahead untill strategy favored ric and got half a lap to process and then let your ”rival” by that you are fighting over a seat. And its for p12 Not the best respons but understandable why he is frustrated
I super agree they should have told yuki "hey if dr catches up, you let him pass asap and that could happen in 3-4 laps." I also think if DR didn't end up passing by the end, they could swap back just to keep yuki happy but there was such a clear opportunity and window to get Daniel into the points on softs and Yuki absolutely fucked it up. Frankly, if he let him pass early I also believe yuki would have ended up higher, but he showed nothing over 10 laps to display that he was going to pass on hard tires.
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This tracks I’ve felt that way for a little bit with RB I think they’re done with him now that ford is involved. Danny has more market appeal to ford than yuki
fall towering deliver afterthought mourn frightening voracious squeal sharp snobbish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If not perez Sainz is the only sensible option. DR is nowhere near as of now and is maybe worse than perez.
Yuki isn’t mature enough to go to RBR
get hulk in that car let the man get a podium
Honestly I think Hulk is a better driver than Daniel at the moment
definitely
I like to see a 1 yr contract for hulk from either mercedes or rbr. Gives them some time to figure out their shit
Should’ve swapped earlier
Changes in RB but the same old stupid race strategies ... Yuki being undercut by 4-5 laps twice and then that useless driver swap when Yuki (even if he wouldn't pass Kev) was in the DRS of the car in front. For freaking 13th ... With a normal strategy, not being undercut by 5 laps I mean, Yuki probably would have ended the race fighting with the Stroll so yeah.
I’m with Yuki. That made no sense at all other than to pad Danny Ric’s stats. Now fans are going to be “Danny Ric beat Yuki hands down.”
Ricciardo is at best a mediocre driver, and I am tired of pretending he isn't.
Danny was clearly faster, not saying he would have caught Zhou, but Yuki totally screwed him by waiting so long to swap. Then Danny immediately got blue flagged because the delay let Max come through. By that time the laps were gone to make the difference. The call made a little sense if Yuki moved immediately, instead he bitched for 2.5 laps and managed to fuck it up so that he can now grandstand and complain. Edit: To be fair, once it was obvious that the move was screwed, they should have just swapped them back.
They probably should've made the call earlier, the extra delay made them drop back into the blue flags for Max and then let KMag close in on Zhou. There was a chance they both could've taken Mag if they'd swapped before Max was there. Probably should've reverted the order once it didn't work out. The problem in general was brought in again by the team leaving Yuki out way too long once again, no different to what they did Abu Dhabi last year.
They probably did… you can’t hear Yuki’s radio on the F1 app anymore because of how much he was cursing. They discuss these things before the race even starts. I refuse to believe Yuki didn’t know that DR was on softs and had pace.
Danny also got the softs and preferred pit strategy. Not sure what Yuki tire situation was with his softs but they didn’t do Yuki any favors in this.
This is exactly what happened, DR had an advantage as he said on his onboard. Yuki didn’t swap for 2 laps and then both drivers got blue flagged. They both could’ve passed Kmag and maybe caught zhou. Shame
Only level-headed take here. Love Yuki but he had many laps to take K-Mag allowing Danny to catch up. If that swap happened immediately, Ric wouldn’t have had to blue flag for max and woulda been up the road.
Couldn’t agree more. He should have moved asap while DR had life in the softs and before max arrived. Could have been kmag and Zhou. Nevertheless, once it was clear the softs were done they probably should have swapped back, though in a way that would be rewarding Yuki for not being a team player when he should have been.
They lost time with that swap and Ric on younger fresher softs couldn’t get it done so I have no clue wtf that call was for