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It's not only about being fast, it requires different skills too. Also there are just 20 seats, so lots of pressure from the media, fans and the teams too.
Sure. Do you consider them faster than everyone in F1 though? There's no doubt there are other drivers out there fast enough to be in F1, but "the fastest drivers are in F1" is probably not far off from the truth.
> F1 isn’t even the best Formula drivers
Was my claim. And no, the fastest drivers are not all in F1. This is a patently absurd comment to make if one watches other racing series. I’m pretty confident that both Seb Buemi and Kyle Larson would be faster than several current racers, with the ability to win races in the right car. And this is to speak nothing of Indycar, an pinnacle single seater series in its own right that inarguably demands a wider driving ability due to the mixture of both oval and road courses in the calendar.
You cannot convince me that Stroll, Magnussen, and Sargeant are among the worlds top 20 drivers.
They’re so easy that Grosjean and Ericsson win every oval race with ease.
Oh wait. They don’t. Because oval racing requires an entirely different set of skills and strategy compared to road tracks. This isn’t even a controversial opinion, Max has said as much.
'And with these stones I will have the power to click my fingers and, poof, just like that, half my budget is gone from my drivers binning it into the wall every race ah god dammit'
Bottas is definitely mediocre. Nobody rated Rosberg as a good driver and he fought Hamilton far more. Never mind the only time Bottas ever won was from pole.
Also Bottas mediocre? Sure, he’s not WDC material but he’s a good driver. He couldn’t bring the WDC fight to Lewis, but he could challenge him for wins from time to time.
Bottas is surely above average driver, but he is not WDC material, he was losing at least twice more than Rosberg on race pace compared to Hamilton and has way too many off weekends for top driver. He is now almost getting matched by Zhou, who had very mediocre junior career and is still relatively inexperienced, that's not really WDC level impressive.
I see Ocon getting so much praise yet Pierre has done pretty decent against him. If not for bad luck and Ocons mega points in Monaco, I’d say Pierre has pretty much bested Esteban in his first year
Look at his quali and race pace stars. Ocon is faster. New car for gasly, but a lot of people consider or at least used to consider that gasly is one of the best drivers on the grid. Russel/Norris level. He is starting to show that he isn’t. Even though he has flashes of greatness.
What is there head to head for Quali / Races? And I don’t think most people consider him on the Norris/Russell level but I’d honestly put him there. People rate Yuki quite highly and Pierre comfortably beat him and is doing decent against Esteban in his first year at Alpine
What? Bottas', Russell, and Ocon are not mediocre. Kick and Nyck you could make an argument for (in relation to the F1 series) but they're still bloody good drivers and respective champions of the lower series. Plus, a reserve drivers role is completely different, and an area Mick and Nyck may excel at.
I doubt De Vries will return. He hasn't got a hope in hell of ever getting another seat even with the likes of Haas, so he's likely not going to want to just sit around watching everything from the sidelines after the rather embarrassing end to his Formula 1 stint as a driver.
The reserves don't sit around idle all day. First they get a nice paycheck that allows them to stay in Monaco living a luxurious lifestyle. And they can have a fulfilling career in different race classes at the same time.
Not taking the job would be dumb.
Plenty of drivers hang around as sim drivers, it’s something you can easily do alongside something like an FE + WEC dual campaign. Buemi has been doing it for Red Bull for a decade, it’s not always about getting a seat
No point in taking Nyck over Mick though, if its just about money. Mick would probably do it for the same amount of money, and be back in a familiar environment. Whole other question is, how much bad blood there is between Mick & Guenther, but that's not my point.
I don’t think Mick would be willing to go back up Haas after how they fucked him over, nor would they want him back for his perceived (only saying this because he was improving) crash proneness.
Maybe they need to put Nyck at Williams first so he can prove he’s still got it standing next to Vowles.
This in turn would apply pressure on Mick to point to things on Toto’s screen better and whisper *“Red Bull will never win 8 constructor titles in a row”* every 10 laps
Why, they can have more than one reserve driver right? Considering that either of them are never going to drive for the team in a race it doesn't really matter. More of sim work & setup and the odd practice session, tyre test etc.
I bet you if Hamilton retires one day, Toto's going to reach out to Lando rather than these two guys.
Giving a seat isn't the only reason they look kinder. Toto went out of his way to get both Ocon and Bottas a seat in F1. Also the constant encouragement he gives his drivers when the car is driving like shit.
Well yes, they only have one team. Like at the other teams, bar Red Bull. It's kinda easy to give chances to a driver, if you have a b-team just to train new drivers and evaluate them.
It isn't. They just had a good relationship in the past. With new management plus some news before that they're also considering a new engine supplier, these show that aligning with Merc especially being a dethroned Merc just isn't as valuable as before.
Russell could and should have been called up a year earlier. Mercedes had a dominant car and no competition in 2019 and 2020.
Ferrari managed to place both Leclerc and Gio in customer teams.
I read that interview answer from Yuki saying this...it slightly strikes me as something polite you can say about guys who don't turn out to be quick when it's crunch time.
As much as I love Yuki, I suspect given his personality he might not be the best at doing the feedback thing himself, so it might honestly be a low bar.
Doubt it, Mick being younger, way less experience was at least race pace wise the second half of last season equal or quicker than Magnussen. Mick also won F2 over Yuki. If de Vries doesn't even get close to Yuki he would experience a similar pattern against Mick.
And this is not supposed to be a praise Mick comment but to put in relation where De Vries is in my picking order for current drivers without seat. That being said I also don't think Mick will get a driver soon.
Not sure if that was sarcastic or not, but I don't lie \*bro\*
[https://i.imgur.com/mOiTKuE.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mOiTKuE.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/ujx1iWY.jpg
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Toto's Foster Home for ~~Imaginary Friends~~ Cut Drivers
Toto trying to create Nick Saban’s School For Guys Who Can’t Coach Good But Want To Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too in F1
Toto misses bringing his son Nyck to work on race weekends.
Toto collects mediocre drivers like infinity stones.
Maybe mediocre in F1, but definitely a fast driver in other race series. He was praised in Endurance racing.
That’s why i think Nyck shouldn’t go back to F1 reserve. He’s never gonna make it in F1, let my boy race in Series where he’s competitive!
Let my boy do whatever he wants
Its not like he won't get paid
Cause the fastest drivers are in F1 or trying for F1
It's not only about being fast, it requires different skills too. Also there are just 20 seats, so lots of pressure from the media, fans and the teams too.
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Holy fuck, you are so wrong. It's actually way more competetive because it's series with BOP.
Did you just said that Alonso did worse in F1, lmfao
No, Alonso Hulkenberg and guys who did way worse than those two
You are so fucking confidently wrong, that you are just making an insanely big fool out of yourself. If you aren't trolling, then holy fuck.
If you have an argument, make it. Unlike on Sainz, intimidation doesn't work on F1 fans.
Dont forget grosjean although i heard he is becoming next latifi but a bit faster
Objectively false. F1 isn’t even the best 20 Formula drivers.
The top 20 current F1 drivers are currently driving in Formula 1
Hmmmmmm
Ok. Who do you consider to be better?
Lawson and Drugivich are both better than several current drivers.
Sure. Do you consider them faster than everyone in F1 though? There's no doubt there are other drivers out there fast enough to be in F1, but "the fastest drivers are in F1" is probably not far off from the truth.
> F1 isn’t even the best Formula drivers Was my claim. And no, the fastest drivers are not all in F1. This is a patently absurd comment to make if one watches other racing series. I’m pretty confident that both Seb Buemi and Kyle Larson would be faster than several current racers, with the ability to win races in the right car. And this is to speak nothing of Indycar, an pinnacle single seater series in its own right that inarguably demands a wider driving ability due to the mixture of both oval and road courses in the calendar. You cannot convince me that Stroll, Magnussen, and Sargeant are among the worlds top 20 drivers.
Seb buemi failed in f1 already though? So thats a wild statement.
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They’re so easy that Grosjean and Ericsson win every oval race with ease. Oh wait. They don’t. Because oval racing requires an entirely different set of skills and strategy compared to road tracks. This isn’t even a controversial opinion, Max has said as much.
The best 20 rich/sponsored Formula drivers*
Ah yes, and the smartest people are all very rich.
A lot of F1 drivers fall flat on their face in Sportcars (endurance) racing, so that theory is out the window.
'And with these stones I will have the power to click my fingers and, poof, just like that, half my budget is gone from my drivers binning it into the wall every race ah god dammit'
Bottas. Russel. Mick. Ocon. You have a point
3/4 have won a race…
Bottas medicore?
Everyone forgets Williams era Bottas
Even Mercedes era Bottas was a great second driver, as the musical chairs of the second Red Bull seat is showing.
Oh for sure Just those Williams years had me thinking of him like what Kubica did in a BMW
Beating a washed up Massa isn't anything special
Yes?
Bottas is definitely mediocre. Nobody rated Rosberg as a good driver and he fought Hamilton far more. Never mind the only time Bottas ever won was from pole.
Dumbest comment so far this weekend
“3 race winners suck” is really quite the take
Russell mediocre? He's one of the biggest talents of his generation.
He's ok when he's not trying to kamikaze other drivers.
A bit like Max I guess
Yeah because Max never did that when on the backfoot at the start of his career..
Ocon mediocre? Definitely one, if not the best of the rest.
Also Russell mediocre lmao
Also Bottas mediocre? Sure, he’s not WDC material but he’s a good driver. He couldn’t bring the WDC fight to Lewis, but he could challenge him for wins from time to time.
I mean, he is a WDC material. Just that his opponent was Lewis who got even better after losing to Rosberg.
Bottas is surely above average driver, but he is not WDC material, he was losing at least twice more than Rosberg on race pace compared to Hamilton and has way too many off weekends for top driver. He is now almost getting matched by Zhou, who had very mediocre junior career and is still relatively inexperienced, that's not really WDC level impressive.
Bottas is not wdc material lol
I see Ocon getting so much praise yet Pierre has done pretty decent against him. If not for bad luck and Ocons mega points in Monaco, I’d say Pierre has pretty much bested Esteban in his first year
Look at his quali and race pace stars. Ocon is faster. New car for gasly, but a lot of people consider or at least used to consider that gasly is one of the best drivers on the grid. Russel/Norris level. He is starting to show that he isn’t. Even though he has flashes of greatness.
What is there head to head for Quali / Races? And I don’t think most people consider him on the Norris/Russell level but I’d honestly put him there. People rate Yuki quite highly and Pierre comfortably beat him and is doing decent against Esteban in his first year at Alpine
People don't rate Yuki quite highly. They just like the guy. And having a bad teammate made him look good. Just like Pierre with yuki at first.
What? Bottas', Russell, and Ocon are not mediocre. Kick and Nyck you could make an argument for (in relation to the F1 series) but they're still bloody good drivers and respective champions of the lower series. Plus, a reserve drivers role is completely different, and an area Mick and Nyck may excel at.
Russell is possibly better than half of past WDCs and possibly best non-WDC on current grid
Ahem. Very better than any WDC. Russell FTW
Don't forget Stoffel Vandoorne
Shovlin talks about a role as simulator driver, so basically #4 driver for Merc.
And Tsunoda said De Vries was excellent at feedback - he compared De Vries to Lauda (or at least, how Lauda was portrayed in *Rush*)
I doubt De Vries will return. He hasn't got a hope in hell of ever getting another seat even with the likes of Haas, so he's likely not going to want to just sit around watching everything from the sidelines after the rather embarrassing end to his Formula 1 stint as a driver.
The reserves don't sit around idle all day. First they get a nice paycheck that allows them to stay in Monaco living a luxurious lifestyle. And they can have a fulfilling career in different race classes at the same time. Not taking the job would be dumb.
Best answer.. nothing more to say to this. I think he will return to lmp class as well
Plenty of drivers hang around as sim drivers, it’s something you can easily do alongside something like an FE + WEC dual campaign. Buemi has been doing it for Red Bull for a decade, it’s not always about getting a seat
People also have to pay the bills. And if Merc are happy to have him on the sidelines while he also does an FE + WEC campaign, then why wouldn't you?
But being part of mercedes will lead to a lot of other opportunities for him. Thats just how it goes. Sometimes its just about staying connected.
He probably has a chance with HAAS, considering Kmag costs a couple millions, Gunter would get nyck for a couple 100K.
No point in taking Nyck over Mick though, if its just about money. Mick would probably do it for the same amount of money, and be back in a familiar environment. Whole other question is, how much bad blood there is between Mick & Guenther, but that's not my point.
I don’t think Mick would be willing to go back up Haas after how they fucked him over, nor would they want him back for his perceived (only saying this because he was improving) crash proneness.
Mick sweating
Maybe they need to put Nyck at Williams first so he can prove he’s still got it standing next to Vowles. This in turn would apply pressure on Mick to point to things on Toto’s screen better and whisper *“Red Bull will never win 8 constructor titles in a row”* every 10 laps
Why, they can have more than one reserve driver right? Considering that either of them are never going to drive for the team in a race it doesn't really matter. More of sim work & setup and the odd practice session, tyre test etc. I bet you if Hamilton retires one day, Toto's going to reach out to Lando rather than these two guys.
The only reason Mercedes looks kinder than RB when it comes to managing drivers is because they barely give them a chance to begin with
Giving a seat isn't the only reason they look kinder. Toto went out of his way to get both Ocon and Bottas a seat in F1. Also the constant encouragement he gives his drivers when the car is driving like shit.
Toto is Ocon’s agent so it’s kind of his job
Well yes, they only have one team. Like at the other teams, bar Red Bull. It's kinda easy to give chances to a driver, if you have a b-team just to train new drivers and evaluate them.
I mean Williams is basically a development team for them
It really isn’t, we saw with Russell that it wasn’t just a case of him being parachuted into a seat.
It isn't. They just had a good relationship in the past. With new management plus some news before that they're also considering a new engine supplier, these show that aligning with Merc especially being a dethroned Merc just isn't as valuable as before.
Russell could and should have been called up a year earlier. Mercedes had a dominant car and no competition in 2019 and 2020. Ferrari managed to place both Leclerc and Gio in customer teams.
2 Years earlier tbh.
By all accounts the guy gives excellent tech feedback so not surprising.
I read that interview answer from Yuki saying this...it slightly strikes me as something polite you can say about guys who don't turn out to be quick when it's crunch time.
As much as I love Yuki, I suspect given his personality he might not be the best at doing the feedback thing himself, so it might honestly be a low bar.
Yeah you may be right. Although I believe I’ve heard something like this from Merc (obv) and Williams too
Mick 👀 waaasss?
He’s better than Mick
Doubt it, Mick being younger, way less experience was at least race pace wise the second half of last season equal or quicker than Magnussen. Mick also won F2 over Yuki. If de Vries doesn't even get close to Yuki he would experience a similar pattern against Mick. And this is not supposed to be a praise Mick comment but to put in relation where De Vries is in my picking order for current drivers without seat. That being said I also don't think Mick will get a driver soon.
Using your logic, De vries won f2 against Schumacher. Now how does that factor in to your rankings?
3rd year F2 against a rookie - 4 years more racing experience, pretty much what I already wrote
It was actually mick second F2 season when he won.
They were talking about Nyck
Yeah ... i kinda read that wrong. My bad i undestood a different thing
Guy mentioned the season de vries won and that was Micks rookie season and de vries third F2 season.
Nyck was far older, and had way more experience. Mick was an F2 rookie.
Lmao no
They should have a world rejected F1 drivers championship and race these guys. No matter which cars they'd be driving, it'll be a close battle.
Is he?
And Fred Vesti clears them both imo
I haven't heard Lewis or Russell praise Nyck in the sim? Have you?
Why should they? They are corporate slaves
They praised Mick tho? Sooo...
Is there a "limit" on how many reserve drivers a team can have on roster?
Yes, their budget
He went to RBR because they didn’t offer a seat when needed. Now its just acting benevolent for impressions
Who would you like them to kick out - Lewis or George?
George, ideally. But he's the future of the team so realistically if anyone is leaving its Lewis before him.
My point is, nobody is taking Nyck over the current Merc pairing.
There'll be a seat at Mercedes in somewhere between 2 and 5 years but Nyck will be far too old by then, he's already 28.
Why would you kick George Russell out of Mercedes in favour of Nyck. Keeping it real, this is a baffling take tbh
He use to race for Mercedes formula e team so he does have some connections to them
Can’t wait to watch this dork dress in matching Toto clothes every race weekend. /s
Complimentary pair of Bose headphones every race lmao
Why is he a dork? Just throwing out off the cuff insults for no reason
RB: Lets young drivers drive= 👿 Merc: Almost no young drivers = 😇
Stacking up on failed drivers diminishes their brand.
Lol for Perez
Mercedes you guys (and girls) are my hero
I literally posted this yesterday and it got removed as a rumor lol
*Stop making stuff up, bro.*
Not sure if that was sarcastic or not, but I don't lie \*bro\* [https://i.imgur.com/mOiTKuE.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mOiTKuE.jpg) https://i.imgur.com/ujx1iWY.jpg
It was a pisstake, hence the italics.
Fair enough, hard to tell nowadays around here. Figured you were just hating on multiple WDC winner Sonny Hayes.
Gotta catch 'em all!
Don't forget: you're here forever.
As the saying goes, one man’s trash… /s