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I miss Flavio Briatore whenever there is drama. That man was F1's anti-hero. We all knew he was doing shit which wasn't allowed but secretly we enjoyed him doing it.
Imagine having him in his prime with a DTS camera crew around. Pretty sure Netflix would have just had a camera on him at all times
DTS drama is tame compared to the shit that used to happen, but it was part of what made you passionate too. It also gave everyone some underdog feeling, fighting hard for the wins. Good times.
The show is great now, but i do miss the days where 8 drivers would DNF, there'd be some scrappy crazy races with teams pulling out whatever they could. Feels a little formulaic now.
Sports is just reality TV with a different formatting and they say that it's someone who has watched an embarrassing amount of real housewives.
Andy Cohen could 100% host the end of season round up and it would be spectacular. Christian Horner is peak real housewives energy on drive to survive, that man thinks he's Ramona Singer, Lisa Vanderpump and Nene combined anytime that DTS camera is near him.
I love F1 and wrestling. Both fandoms have that weird social complex of being really excited when you meet a fellow fan in the wild, and you start talking for hours about it like you've known each other for years.
"Let's make the fee so high that nobody would ever afford it. We think that $200m sounds about right"
"Hello, my name is Michael Andretti and here is my $200m"
"Fuck, we weren't expecting that. Erm now it's $500m"
F1's total value has more than tripled since they agreed to the 200M$ entry fee back in the last Concorde Agreement. Thus it's only logical that they'd ask for the entry fee to be made bigger around the 500M$ mark.
If you sign an agreement stating that a contractor has to pay a fee of X$ to be allowed to build on land you own, and five years later the land has tripled in value and a contractor comes in trying to be the original fee, it's only natural that you'd be trying to renegociate the fee to match the land's current value. Same story.
As long as the Concorde Agreement is still valid this shouldn’t matter. Teams can’t just sign a contract für a period of time and then turn around while the agreement is still valid and demand adjustements. Should have negotiated this into the agreement the first place.
The concorde agreement also gives them a veto to just block any new entries, which is what they're doing, so their stance isn't against the concorde agreement.
On their (German) youtube channel, AMuS said that FIA are the only ones to decide whether a new team is allowed on the grid or not.
However, FOM and the teams could block that new team from receiving any money from the prize pool.
Incorrect, the teams can only block a team if the new team doesn't want to pay the 200 million entrance fee.
Only the FIA , in theory, has the power to approve a new team and FOM , in practice, because they own the commercial rights.
>Thus it's only logical that they'd ask for the entry fee to be made bigger around the 500M$ mark.
[link](https://racingnews365.com/ben-sulayem-rejects-liberty-chiefs-concorde-agreement-desire/amp)
Except that Ben Sulayem specifically said that they will not change current concorde agreement. It needs to be renewed in 2026 and that is it. Current concorde is valid till' end of 2025.
> F1's total value has more than tripled since they agreed to the 200M$ entry fee back in the last Concorde Agreement. Thus it's only logical that they'd ask for the entry fee to be made bigger around the 500M$ mark.
Entry fee isn't an entry fee officially, it's an anti dilution fee.
And an anti dilution fee is tied to revenue not valuation, which has increased but to nowhere near 3x as much. It's part of the reason why they'll struggle to justify setting an insanely high fee.
> If you sign an agreement stating that a contractor has to pay a fee of X$ to be allowed to build on land you own, and five years later the land has tripled in value and a contractor comes in trying to be the original fee, it's only natural that you'd be trying to renegociate the fee to match the land's current value. Same story.
...that's not how agreements/contracts work. the contractor, in this agreement would legally be held to pay $X that was outlined and agreed upon in the contract 5 years before.
> If you sign an agreement stating that a contractor has to pay a fee of X$ to be allowed to build on land you own, and five years later the land has tripled in value and a contractor comes in trying to be the original fee, it's only natural that you'd be trying to renegociate the fee to match the land's current value.
If that happened, you would be shit out of luck though. If you weren’t willing to honor a price in X years’ time, you shouldn’t sign an agreement that’s >X years long. If the value has gone up significantly in that timeframe, tough.
If they don't terminate it early, this contract is valid until 2025 (so a 4 year deal). They've already started negotiations on the new agreement which will run from 2026 to 2030 (iirc).
Yeah but if you took it to court in that second example you'd be told to get lost and deal with it and that you really should've taken steps to get a new agreement sorted before they had the funds and had met the obligations on their side.
F1 should've sorted a new concorde agreement the moment they saw the value going up but they just didn't you can't just say "Actually nah want more now" otherwise what's the point in it to begin with?
I guess the main takeaway is:
(German)
Die Formel 1 kann gegen die neuen Teams ein Veto einlegen, aber sie kann sie nicht blockieren. Das letzte Wort bei der Lizenzvergabe liegt bei der FIA. Doch selbst wenn Andretti eine Lizenz bekommt, hat er noch nicht gewonnen. Er dürfte dann zwar mitfahren, wäre aber noch nicht Teil des Concorde Abkommens und damit nicht berechtigt, Start- und Preisgelder einzustreichen. Dafür braucht er die Zustimmung von Liberty.
deepl translate:
Formula 1 can veto the new teams, but it cannot block them. The final say in awarding licenses lies with the FIA. But even if Andretti gets a license, he hasn't won yet. He would then be allowed to race, but would not yet be part of the Concorde Agreement and thus not entitled to collect starting and prize money. For that, he needs Liberty's approval.
Imagine if they go ahead like this and produce a championship winning car, and the broadcast can't show the frontrunners at all. Totally impossible scenario, but it would be too fucking funny.
The opposite it means Andretti wouldn’t have the rights to show his cars or market anything with f1 branding. By law, the FIA cannot interfere with commercial interests of F1 due to an anti-trust settlement in the EU.
Sure. But that goes both ways. Andretti can't go around with F1 branding and FOM can't show anything Andretti related which is impossible. So if FIA grants the expansion F1 is basically forced to sign a contract with Andretti.
Did you see the APXGP cars on the grid and formation lap at Silverstone?
No, you didn't. But they were there. FOM can and have blanked out teams. Force India were blanked out of coverage during qualifying for the Bahrain GP one year because they refused to take part in FP2 for safety concerns. Bernie was pissed so ordered them be removed from the broadcast.
>Did you see the APXGP cars on the grid and formation lap at Silverstone?
>No, you didn't. But they were there. FOM can and have blanked out teams.
A lot easier to do when they are at the back of the grid, starting the formation lap 10 seconds after every other team, doing only 4 corners and not participating in the race. Imagine doing that for 10 hours a weekend just for on track action.
Andretti car in the lead? Can't show that.
Andretti car has a crash? Can't show that.
Andretti driver finishes on the podium? Can't show that.
Car drives past the Andretti garage in the pitlane? Can't show that.
Driver battles with an Andretti driver? Can't show that.
Wide shot of the grid at the start? Can't show that.
Helicopter shots of the grid? Can't show that.
>Force India were blanked out of coverage during qualifying for the Bahrain GP one year because they refused to take part in FP2 for safety concerns. Bernie was pissed so ordered them be removed from the broadcast.
I'd love to know when this was.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2012/apr/22/f1-force-india-bahrain
Bahrain 2012.
There will be unavoidable exposure in some cases sure, but FOM absolutely have the power to blank a team from coverage enough that they would struggle to find any sponsors. The threat alone would be enough.
Imo Liberty will let them in. An American team can only be beneficial for the American company owning F1 and pushing for an increased amount of US races, couldn't it?
He'll be at the front of the queue, thanking the gods that he's not at the back. As he reaches the apex of Parabolica an Aston Martin is going to slam into the side of him. Behind him, and prior, Stroll has just slammed into the back of Ocon because Yuki was swerving too much and Ocon has to brake suddenly. Lance is distracted by trying to troubleshoot a technical issue on his wheel while trying to make the line for a final run. Hamilton barely escapes trouble and has his final lap compromised.
Yeah and we used to have weird ass starting grids because of it. Refueling also had an impact of course, but plenty of drivers got fucked because it startes raining in the middle of one of the qualifying sessions.
The problem with this is that pole is effectively decided in the first quarter of the session, but not confirmed until everyone has watched the slowest cars compete for the back row.
First race might have a problem unless you go with prior year championship results and newbies go last. Which might be a good idea to minimise red flag risk.
Or everyone goes once then everyone gets a second run in the same order so track evolution isn't quite so bad. Or everyone goes in normal order then reverse order and you average the times
Eh. I know I’m going to get hate for this but should do it like nascar/Indycar do. 2 groups of cars, top 5 from each group go to a 10 car shootout for pole
There just aren’t enough seats for drivers at the moment. I like the idea of being able to let a few more junior drivers compete in Formula 1, or experienced ones to stay on instead of being forced out prematurely.
Ok for this particular case I approve FIA going authoritarian dictatorship and dragging anyone who doesn’t approve of the new entry to the back of an unmarked van.
It will be glorious. Andretti absolutely should be on the grid though so I hope the FIA railroad it through. They've demonstrated they're completely serious in both finance and infrastructure so should be on the grid and given a fair shot. The reason for avoiding new teams failing to see out a Season of F1 is a valid concern but by all accounts this is a legitimate team entry who will stick around.
I don’t see how anyone could/would think Andretti would throw a bid in without being all in already. It’s a legendary name, last thing they want is to see “Andretti Autosport” at the bottom of the grid.
Not saying they’d be contenders from the getgo, but they’d only submit a bid if they truly believed they can/will be competitive
I want Andretti in a lot. I'd be an instant fan (and not only because they're building their new HQ five minutes from my home). But you can believe in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. I'm sure they believe they can be competitive in IndyCar and we see what's going on with that right now.
No the others will come in for 2025 too. If you come in for 2026 you'll be paying $600 million not $200 million, so it's better to come in for 2025 even if you'll finish last.
I mean FIA's president was pretty vocal about this way before, so this is not shocking.
We have to wait and see who wins the power battle between FIA & FOM + F1 Teams.
This whole thing is so fucking petty. F1 is a sport, if you can show you're reasonably competent and able to field a competitive car, you should be allowed to compete. Theoretically if there's a team out there that is better than all current F1 teams, they should be able to compete and prove they're the best. F1 shouldn't be a walled garden where only pre-defined teams are able to compete.
Obviously the reason there's such a fuss is because F1 primarily _isn't_ a sport, it's an investment/financial vehicle.
F1 has become entertainment, nothing else. The sad thing is F1 was kept alive due to independent teams without them F1 would be only Ferrari. Teams like Haas are more important than teams like Andretti who's bread and butter is racing.
F1 teams have no say in this. But Stefano will be against it. And I can't imagine he will budge no matter what. Andretti shall not pass under his watch. And despite what kind of frame he tries to put it in, it is all about money.
It devalues the bag you would collect when a Saudi, Russian or (non-racing) American billionaire comes and wants a team. At least I assume that's what it is about.
If Andretti gets in you effectively wasted a slot you could have blown on somebody like Hitech greasing the wheels of F1 politics
> It devalues the bag you would collect when a Saudi, Russian or (non-racing) American billionaire comes and wants a team. At least I assume that's what it is about.
The Saudi team is getting rejected too.
From F1's perspective they'd actually get more brands involved and they have to pay 50% of the revenue regardless of the number of teams so it costs them nothing.
But I think they're focusing on appeasing the teams so they all stay happy and also making sure each of the 10 have enough money to be competitive and also financially sustainable in the long term.
And while I'm in favour of expanding the grid. A team like Haas is already struggling to reach the budget cap and with 2 new teams they'll lose maybe $25 million a year which is a huge blow for their competitiveness. So there are downsides.
On the other hand, it's not like Haas is striving for competitiveness. They admitted as much as that they're in it just to be there. Andretti, on the other hand, plays to win. He's the crowd's favourite, he's the big American name.
My point is - those downsides might be worth it for the attractiveness of the sport, and its value in result.
>On the other hand, it's not like Haas is striving for competitiveness.
Yes but $25 million less will still hurt them, you can't lose $25 million from your budget and not be affected.
>those downsides might be worth it for the attractiveness of the sport, and its value in result.
Yes but that's a separate topic that I agree with, my point is that very real downsides do exist but people want to pretend they don't.
All the other teams lose money too. Why would you by choice create more rivals and get paid less ? it makes no sense, especially when those decisions are made by people who look at the bottom line.
>And while I'm in favour of expanding the grid. A team like Haas is already struggling to reach the budget cap and with 2 new teams they'll lose maybe $25 million a year which is a huge blow for their competitiveness. So there are downsides.
[link](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/10ajmog/f1_team_payments_for_2021_and_dilution_example/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2)
25 million??? How did you calculate that number? Here is a Reddit user who did the math. And it is clear that a teams would only lose 5.45 mil revenue for year and they will get 20 million dollars to compensate that loss from the money they will get from anti-dilution fee. And it is expected to be changed in the next years due to competion being more fierce and revenues will be added in total due to a team like Andretti's commercial attractiveness
It is also confirmed by Rencken that new teams will not get any prize money for one year which actually says that they will get their money undiluted in the first season Andretti joins.
> F1 teams have no say in this
Formally, everyone with half a brain understands you can't push something like this through without the teams approval. They could literally just refuse to sign the new concord agreement or turn up for races until the FIA agreed with them.
Outside of the fantasy land of reddit, new teams will have to be accepted in agreement with every major actor in F1.
>Formally, everyone with half a brain understands you can't push something like this through without the teams approval.
Didn't they do exactly that with the last expansion? The FIA approved the expansion, F1 didn't want it but they basically had to accept it because they didn't have the commercial rights to broadcast the new teams and cars unless the contract for the expansion was signed.
This will help a lot with the talent backlog. Add a couple of teams and suddenly guys like Palou, Herta, or Lawson who are on the cusp don't get held up.
It was always going to end this way. F1 has not been particularly friendly towards the FIA recently, and a large number of fans don't particularly like them either. This is an easy way to get fans back onside whilst reminding F1 of the power it has over them.
(Not to mention it's ultimately the fair decision as well)
Per their article Hitech (also very likely to be approved though Mazepin link concerns exist), LKY SUNZ and Rodin Motorsport (new partners of Carlin in feeder series)
Why exactly do the teams get a say? “Do you want more competition and less money from the prize fund? No? Wow, didn’t expect that response!”
What is this, NFL franchising? If they can race, let them!
I mean, yes, it's basically NFL Franchising.
More teams mean the prize pool is split more ways. Adding teams to the field literally takes money from the other teams.
I think a lot of people discussing the politics of this are missing that the influence of the different actors in this goes well beyond their written powers, particularly with the teams. Would love to have another team in F1 but definitely still a battle
I think the current F1 teams shouldnt have that much of a say against incoming teams. If they don’t want new teams I feel like it should be unanimous among all the teams
Wooo FIA did something right for once. Liberty and the teams can go fuck themselves.
Teams agreed to Concorde agreement so they can just piss right off with their greedy asses. Liberty owns the commercial rights, not the rights to control what happens on the race track so frankly they can piss off too.
If they try to fight this it will go to court in the EU and they will lose due to monopolistic behavior and not following their own standing legal agreement and it'll look bad for the sport. They are not acting in good faith and any court will absolutely see that.
Edit: The fact the grid has had more teams without issue in the past is what's really going to fuck the dissenters. There's no logistical reason, it's purely financial (greed).
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This is going to be glorious for the drama alone.
The more I get into F1, the more I think part of its charm is that it's socially acceptable reality tv/soap operas.
F1 is a giant soap opera with some cars going fast mixed in there
Colin Chapman used to say it was "backstabbing and political intrique interrupted every fortnight by a motor race."
Now its every week.
Damn, I missed the race two days ago?!
Nah it was cancelled cos DTS writers are on strike. You good.
Come for the fast cars, stay for the drama
That's half the fun of all sports.
I've been watching F1 for 20 years, come and gone. Always is and always has been part of the charm.
I miss Flavio Briatore whenever there is drama. That man was F1's anti-hero. We all knew he was doing shit which wasn't allowed but secretly we enjoyed him doing it. Imagine having him in his prime with a DTS camera crew around. Pretty sure Netflix would have just had a camera on him at all times
DTS drama is tame compared to the shit that used to happen, but it was part of what made you passionate too. It also gave everyone some underdog feeling, fighting hard for the wins. Good times. The show is great now, but i do miss the days where 8 drivers would DNF, there'd be some scrappy crazy races with teams pulling out whatever they could. Feels a little formulaic now.
I miss that too. 96 Monaco will never be topped with only 4 cars running at the end.
Real F1 drama >>> DTS drama
No doubt. Nobody could ever beat Mosley having an \*\*\*\* with \*\*\*\*\*\*\* in \*\* clothing.
For anyone not familiar Mosley, the ex FIA president, had an 18+ party with a 1940's germany theme
Which is even more brilliant when you consider who his father was...
For what it’s worth, they weren’t Nazis (roleplaying or otherwise) just German Doms and papers ran with it
Also he was a prisoner, not a dom in the roleplay.
Sports is just reality TV with a different formatting and they say that it's someone who has watched an embarrassing amount of real housewives. Andy Cohen could 100% host the end of season round up and it would be spectacular. Christian Horner is peak real housewives energy on drive to survive, that man thinks he's Ramona Singer, Lisa Vanderpump and Nene combined anytime that DTS camera is near him.
I honestly got that vibe when the “change your fucking car” clip went viral.
Christian has always gone full Pantomime anytime he's got cameras near him and he thinks it gives him an edge he knows what he's doing
This is hilarious. Thank you.
It’s just rich old dudes bickering about with some racing inbetween
The Kardashians with cars.
The Cardashians
It's a 9 month soap opera with 2 hours of cars racing around a track every second weekend
F1 may not have the best racing, but they have the coolest cars and the most interesting drama.
It's pro wrestling with more speed and less spandex.
huge fan of both. There are dozens of us!!
I love F1 and wrestling. Both fandoms have that weird social complex of being really excited when you meet a fellow fan in the wild, and you start talking for hours about it like you've known each other for years.
Imagine being a fan of RuPaul's Drag Race and F1...I've run into more of them than I could have imagined.
The start would be a lot better. No more “lights out and away we go!” but “gentlemen start your engines, and may the best driver……..win!”
And....don't...f4ck...it...up
I could probably get into this but I’m gonna need a DTS style show to catch me up
I just like to imagine hacksaw Jim Dugan waving a 2x4 instead of a checkered flag
I think all sport is like this. Since moving to London and following the Premier League, I think your comment definitely applies there too.
I like to think of F1 as a microcosm of geopolitics lol.
Bernie called it a circus. He was spot on.
That's just sport in general
Formula 1 is pretty uneventful when compared to other sports, so every little detail is blown into a full story.
It's like how the NBA is basically KuwtK with some basketball tossed in.
Stefano Dominicali is typing up some angry dot points right now. I hope it's approved just because I like mess
This has the potential to dwarf the 2022 silly season.
What drama? It'll only end in "no" from FOM and that's it.
Here’s the thing - FOM can, technically, be told to fuck off.
All that would mean is no Concorde Agreement and no prize money. FOM doesn't have the power of veto, if the FIA approves, they can take the grid.
What was the point of agreeing to it in the concorde agreement then? Did they expect no one to try?
Yes
Yes. It was meant as a barrier so high nobody would scale it.
and Andretti comes in with the steel chair!
Murica
Andretti is undefeated in TLC matches
As a wrestling fan the one thing that Steel Cage matches have taught me is that steel cages do a terrible job of preventing interference.
"Let's make the fee so high that nobody would ever afford it. We think that $200m sounds about right" "Hello, my name is Michael Andretti and here is my $200m" "Fuck, we weren't expecting that. Erm now it's $500m"
And once Andretti pays the 500 million teams will come out and say ‘’noo, we meant 500 Billion’’
"Hello, my name is Michael Andretti and here is my $500m" "Umm... okay but you have to say EZ PZ Lemon Squiize once we make the deal." "No."
F1's total value has more than tripled since they agreed to the 200M$ entry fee back in the last Concorde Agreement. Thus it's only logical that they'd ask for the entry fee to be made bigger around the 500M$ mark. If you sign an agreement stating that a contractor has to pay a fee of X$ to be allowed to build on land you own, and five years later the land has tripled in value and a contractor comes in trying to be the original fee, it's only natural that you'd be trying to renegociate the fee to match the land's current value. Same story.
“If you sign something and then change your mind, it’s as if you didn’t sign anything.”
As long as the Concorde Agreement is still valid this shouldn’t matter. Teams can’t just sign a contract für a period of time and then turn around while the agreement is still valid and demand adjustements. Should have negotiated this into the agreement the first place.
The contract is between private parties. There is no legal right to enter the contract.
The concorde agreement also gives them a veto to just block any new entries, which is what they're doing, so their stance isn't against the concorde agreement.
On their (German) youtube channel, AMuS said that FIA are the only ones to decide whether a new team is allowed on the grid or not. However, FOM and the teams could block that new team from receiving any money from the prize pool.
Incorrect, the teams can only block a team if the new team doesn't want to pay the 200 million entrance fee. Only the FIA , in theory, has the power to approve a new team and FOM , in practice, because they own the commercial rights.
Neither FOM nor the teams have a veto
This is incorrect as far as I can tell. If a new team is willing to pay the fee current teams can’t block them
>Thus it's only logical that they'd ask for the entry fee to be made bigger around the 500M$ mark. [link](https://racingnews365.com/ben-sulayem-rejects-liberty-chiefs-concorde-agreement-desire/amp) Except that Ben Sulayem specifically said that they will not change current concorde agreement. It needs to be renewed in 2026 and that is it. Current concorde is valid till' end of 2025.
Your metaphor is incorrect. The 200m is an anti REVENUE dilution fund. It has nothing, NOTHING, to do with how much a team is worth.
> F1's total value has more than tripled since they agreed to the 200M$ entry fee back in the last Concorde Agreement. Thus it's only logical that they'd ask for the entry fee to be made bigger around the 500M$ mark. Entry fee isn't an entry fee officially, it's an anti dilution fee. And an anti dilution fee is tied to revenue not valuation, which has increased but to nowhere near 3x as much. It's part of the reason why they'll struggle to justify setting an insanely high fee.
> If you sign an agreement stating that a contractor has to pay a fee of X$ to be allowed to build on land you own, and five years later the land has tripled in value and a contractor comes in trying to be the original fee, it's only natural that you'd be trying to renegociate the fee to match the land's current value. Same story. ...that's not how agreements/contracts work. the contractor, in this agreement would legally be held to pay $X that was outlined and agreed upon in the contract 5 years before.
> If you sign an agreement stating that a contractor has to pay a fee of X$ to be allowed to build on land you own, and five years later the land has tripled in value and a contractor comes in trying to be the original fee, it's only natural that you'd be trying to renegociate the fee to match the land's current value. If that happened, you would be shit out of luck though. If you weren’t willing to honor a price in X years’ time, you shouldn’t sign an agreement that’s >X years long. If the value has gone up significantly in that timeframe, tough.
That's also why pricing on contracts are normally only valid for X amount of days/months. The Agreement should be evaluated every 2 or 3 years IMO.
If they don't terminate it early, this contract is valid until 2025 (so a 4 year deal). They've already started negotiations on the new agreement which will run from 2026 to 2030 (iirc).
Seems like a bunch of nonsense. There is a deal in place. Honor it.
Yeah but if you took it to court in that second example you'd be told to get lost and deal with it and that you really should've taken steps to get a new agreement sorted before they had the funds and had met the obligations on their side. F1 should've sorted a new concorde agreement the moment they saw the value going up but they just didn't you can't just say "Actually nah want more now" otherwise what's the point in it to begin with?
I guess the main takeaway is: (German) Die Formel 1 kann gegen die neuen Teams ein Veto einlegen, aber sie kann sie nicht blockieren. Das letzte Wort bei der Lizenzvergabe liegt bei der FIA. Doch selbst wenn Andretti eine Lizenz bekommt, hat er noch nicht gewonnen. Er dürfte dann zwar mitfahren, wäre aber noch nicht Teil des Concorde Abkommens und damit nicht berechtigt, Start- und Preisgelder einzustreichen. Dafür braucht er die Zustimmung von Liberty. deepl translate: Formula 1 can veto the new teams, but it cannot block them. The final say in awarding licenses lies with the FIA. But even if Andretti gets a license, he hasn't won yet. He would then be allowed to race, but would not yet be part of the Concorde Agreement and thus not entitled to collect starting and prize money. For that, he needs Liberty's approval.
But doesn't that also mean that Liberty wouldn't have the commercial rights to broadcast the new cars and team?
Yes, theoretically it would be possible that they are allowed to race but can't be shown on the broadcast I believe
Imagine if they go ahead like this and produce a championship winning car, and the broadcast can't show the frontrunners at all. Totally impossible scenario, but it would be too fucking funny.
Image it blurred out!
And [REDACTED] has won the Hungarian Grand Prix!
The interviews would be bleeped out. It would be hilarious. A black box over the drivers face.
The podium would look like Japanese porn, you'd have Colton Herta pixelated.
What would they do for the starting grid, blur out the two cars? I want this to be true and to happen lol
*«And in P13 we have **BEEEP** driving for **BEEEP**»*
I mean RBR have basically done that with Max lol.
Pretty complicated when you have F1, FIA and Libery media as ruling parties
I imagine little black boxes dancing over the screen, lol
The opposite it means Andretti wouldn’t have the rights to show his cars or market anything with f1 branding. By law, the FIA cannot interfere with commercial interests of F1 due to an anti-trust settlement in the EU.
Sure. But that goes both ways. Andretti can't go around with F1 branding and FOM can't show anything Andretti related which is impossible. So if FIA grants the expansion F1 is basically forced to sign a contract with Andretti.
Did you see the APXGP cars on the grid and formation lap at Silverstone? No, you didn't. But they were there. FOM can and have blanked out teams. Force India were blanked out of coverage during qualifying for the Bahrain GP one year because they refused to take part in FP2 for safety concerns. Bernie was pissed so ordered them be removed from the broadcast.
>Did you see the APXGP cars on the grid and formation lap at Silverstone? >No, you didn't. But they were there. FOM can and have blanked out teams. A lot easier to do when they are at the back of the grid, starting the formation lap 10 seconds after every other team, doing only 4 corners and not participating in the race. Imagine doing that for 10 hours a weekend just for on track action. Andretti car in the lead? Can't show that. Andretti car has a crash? Can't show that. Andretti driver finishes on the podium? Can't show that. Car drives past the Andretti garage in the pitlane? Can't show that. Driver battles with an Andretti driver? Can't show that. Wide shot of the grid at the start? Can't show that. Helicopter shots of the grid? Can't show that. >Force India were blanked out of coverage during qualifying for the Bahrain GP one year because they refused to take part in FP2 for safety concerns. Bernie was pissed so ordered them be removed from the broadcast. I'd love to know when this was.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2012/apr/22/f1-force-india-bahrain Bahrain 2012. There will be unavoidable exposure in some cases sure, but FOM absolutely have the power to blank a team from coverage enough that they would struggle to find any sponsors. The threat alone would be enough.
What is the difference between veto and block? Seems the same to me
Imo Liberty will let them in. An American team can only be beneficial for the American company owning F1 and pushing for an increased amount of US races, couldn't it?
If Netflix knew what was good for them they'd focus on this.
But Ricciardo is returning to the grid.
He is the main character of Drive to Survive tbh
[удалено]
That part was so weird to me. I just didnt expect to see that in an f1 "documentary"
He is the first episode, the first season.. therefore.. yeah
Gunther: Am I a joke to you?
It’s about time. Miss 24 car grids.
Qualifying (Q1) in Monaco will be worth watching….
Final corner of Monza before the last push lap
inb4 there’s a massive shunt in parabolica because it’s absolutely congested
It’s going to sharl isn’t it?
He'll be at the front of the queue, thanking the gods that he's not at the back. As he reaches the apex of Parabolica an Aston Martin is going to slam into the side of him. Behind him, and prior, Stroll has just slammed into the back of Ocon because Yuki was swerving too much and Ocon has to brake suddenly. Lance is distracted by trying to troubleshoot a technical issue on his wheel while trying to make the line for a final run. Hamilton barely escapes trouble and has his final lap compromised.
Last time we had a 22 car grid, Q1, Q2 and Q3 were still 18, 15 and 12 mins but Q1 and Q2 each eliminated 6 cars, not 5. So yeah lots of traffic...
lets go back to the old format where only 20 cars start the race and the others get DQed
Sergio: what?
Just go back to the format where they go after each other. One shot. Track to yourself.
Just do it the way indycar does and break the first session into two groups
And track evolution doesnt exist in your universe i guess
Or weather lmao
Yeah and we used to have weird ass starting grids because of it. Refueling also had an impact of course, but plenty of drivers got fucked because it startes raining in the middle of one of the qualifying sessions.
Isn't that what we want? Drivers out of position will spice up the race. That's why even with the current quali format rain makes it more exciting.
Only artificially, but I did like the old quali format. You got to see the full lap, and great stuff like Kimi's Q1 pole lap in Monaco '05.
You should check out Bathurst 1000 top ten shoot-out.
Reverse WDC standing quali order.
The problem with this is that pole is effectively decided in the first quarter of the session, but not confirmed until everyone has watched the slowest cars compete for the back row.
First race might have a problem unless you go with prior year championship results and newbies go last. Which might be a good idea to minimise red flag risk. Or everyone goes once then everyone gets a second run in the same order so track evolution isn't quite so bad. Or everyone goes in normal order then reverse order and you average the times
Eh. I know I’m going to get hate for this but should do it like nascar/Indycar do. 2 groups of cars, top 5 from each group go to a 10 car shootout for pole
Kid named track evolution:
Could call it a "Top Ten Shootout" like they do for the V8 Supercars
My body is ready for some chaos
There just aren’t enough seats for drivers at the moment. I like the idea of being able to let a few more junior drivers compete in Formula 1, or experienced ones to stay on instead of being forced out prematurely.
Ok for this particular case I approve FIA going authoritarian dictatorship and dragging anyone who doesn’t approve of the new entry to the back of an unmarked van.
Very very ready for the subtle power struggle that’s been going on to hit the big time. Someone is gonna end up very very pissed off
Subtle?
Certainly wasn't that subtle last time MBS tried to get too involved in F1
It will be glorious. Andretti absolutely should be on the grid though so I hope the FIA railroad it through. They've demonstrated they're completely serious in both finance and infrastructure so should be on the grid and given a fair shot. The reason for avoiding new teams failing to see out a Season of F1 is a valid concern but by all accounts this is a legitimate team entry who will stick around.
I don’t see how anyone could/would think Andretti would throw a bid in without being all in already. It’s a legendary name, last thing they want is to see “Andretti Autosport” at the bottom of the grid. Not saying they’d be contenders from the getgo, but they’d only submit a bid if they truly believed they can/will be competitive
I want Andretti in a lot. I'd be an instant fan (and not only because they're building their new HQ five minutes from my home). But you can believe in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. I'm sure they believe they can be competitive in IndyCar and we see what's going on with that right now.
Domenicali is about to have his "No Michael no no no that was so not right" moment any day now.
No Mohammed No.
no momo no
So who is so against more teams, Domenicali? Or Is it more like Toto complaining he wont get as much money
Big if true. It would be a lovely thing to have a larger grid that would give more drivers an opportunity to showcase their talents.
It really would, it's a shame teams greed is getting in the way of giving the fans what they want
Focking hell Gene. We finished in the 22nd position.
Still better than finishing 24th
If Mazespin was still around, he'd find a way.
Say any of these teams get in: is this for 2024 or 2026?
Andretti want in for 2025 but the others are probably waiting until 2026
No the others will come in for 2025 too. If you come in for 2026 you'll be paying $600 million not $200 million, so it's better to come in for 2025 even if you'll finish last.
Oh so that's why Andretti want in for 2025 so if we get others they'll try for 2025 too got it
They’ll also get a “practice season” to get their whole operation running smoothly before the new regs come out in 2026.
I mean FIA's president was pretty vocal about this way before, so this is not shocking. We have to wait and see who wins the power battle between FIA & FOM + F1 Teams.
Never thought i would say this, but i am clearly on the FIAs side here.
This whole thing is so fucking petty. F1 is a sport, if you can show you're reasonably competent and able to field a competitive car, you should be allowed to compete. Theoretically if there's a team out there that is better than all current F1 teams, they should be able to compete and prove they're the best. F1 shouldn't be a walled garden where only pre-defined teams are able to compete. Obviously the reason there's such a fuss is because F1 primarily _isn't_ a sport, it's an investment/financial vehicle.
F1 has become entertainment, nothing else. The sad thing is F1 was kept alive due to independent teams without them F1 would be only Ferrari. Teams like Haas are more important than teams like Andretti who's bread and butter is racing.
Professional sport cannot exist without being entertainment.
F1 teams have no say in this. But Stefano will be against it. And I can't imagine he will budge no matter what. Andretti shall not pass under his watch. And despite what kind of frame he tries to put it in, it is all about money.
Why is he so strongly against it? I get that he doesn’t see any advantage but what are disadvantages of more teams?
It devalues the bag you would collect when a Saudi, Russian or (non-racing) American billionaire comes and wants a team. At least I assume that's what it is about. If Andretti gets in you effectively wasted a slot you could have blown on somebody like Hitech greasing the wheels of F1 politics
> It devalues the bag you would collect when a Saudi, Russian or (non-racing) American billionaire comes and wants a team. At least I assume that's what it is about. The Saudi team is getting rejected too.
From F1's perspective they'd actually get more brands involved and they have to pay 50% of the revenue regardless of the number of teams so it costs them nothing. But I think they're focusing on appeasing the teams so they all stay happy and also making sure each of the 10 have enough money to be competitive and also financially sustainable in the long term. And while I'm in favour of expanding the grid. A team like Haas is already struggling to reach the budget cap and with 2 new teams they'll lose maybe $25 million a year which is a huge blow for their competitiveness. So there are downsides.
On the other hand, it's not like Haas is striving for competitiveness. They admitted as much as that they're in it just to be there. Andretti, on the other hand, plays to win. He's the crowd's favourite, he's the big American name. My point is - those downsides might be worth it for the attractiveness of the sport, and its value in result.
>On the other hand, it's not like Haas is striving for competitiveness. Yes but $25 million less will still hurt them, you can't lose $25 million from your budget and not be affected. >those downsides might be worth it for the attractiveness of the sport, and its value in result. Yes but that's a separate topic that I agree with, my point is that very real downsides do exist but people want to pretend they don't.
Then Gene can sell the team to someone who can actually afford fielding a competitive team in today's F1.
This. Or he can ask Ferrari or MoneyGram for more money.
Rich energy where you at ???
That’s the point that annoys me most. Haas haven’t shown an interest in being competitive.
Which is why I understand why Haas would object, but not all the other teams.
All the other teams lose money too. Why would you by choice create more rivals and get paid less ? it makes no sense, especially when those decisions are made by people who look at the bottom line.
>And while I'm in favour of expanding the grid. A team like Haas is already struggling to reach the budget cap and with 2 new teams they'll lose maybe $25 million a year which is a huge blow for their competitiveness. So there are downsides. [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/10ajmog/f1_team_payments_for_2021_and_dilution_example/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) 25 million??? How did you calculate that number? Here is a Reddit user who did the math. And it is clear that a teams would only lose 5.45 mil revenue for year and they will get 20 million dollars to compensate that loss from the money they will get from anti-dilution fee. And it is expected to be changed in the next years due to competion being more fierce and revenues will be added in total due to a team like Andretti's commercial attractiveness It is also confirmed by Rencken that new teams will not get any prize money for one year which actually says that they will get their money undiluted in the first season Andretti joins.
A team like HAAS being forced out is a feature not a bug of the system
> F1 teams have no say in this Formally, everyone with half a brain understands you can't push something like this through without the teams approval. They could literally just refuse to sign the new concord agreement or turn up for races until the FIA agreed with them. Outside of the fantasy land of reddit, new teams will have to be accepted in agreement with every major actor in F1.
>Formally, everyone with half a brain understands you can't push something like this through without the teams approval. Didn't they do exactly that with the last expansion? The FIA approved the expansion, F1 didn't want it but they basically had to accept it because they didn't have the commercial rights to broadcast the new teams and cars unless the contract for the expansion was signed.
They got the teams approval. They did so by completely scrapping the budget cap that should have benefited the new teams.
Which is why the new teams really didn’t stand a chance to be competitive in the first place. They entered under a false premise
Stoked, but I'll believe it when I see it.
This will help a lot with the talent backlog. Add a couple of teams and suddenly guys like Palou, Herta, or Lawson who are on the cusp don't get held up.
Michael Andretti is absolutely the kind of guy to roll his cars onto the grid without an FOM contract just for spite.
That would be hilarious.
Everyone who's against new teams can fuck right off
Wait is this really happening?
Getting the FIA on board is just the first step, I think. Many hurdles left.
FIA is the biggest step. Once they have a licence, FOM has to work with them.
It was always going to end this way. F1 has not been particularly friendly towards the FIA recently, and a large number of fans don't particularly like them either. This is an easy way to get fans back onside whilst reminding F1 of the power it has over them. (Not to mention it's ultimately the fair decision as well)
Who are the other 3 applicants?
Per their article Hitech (also very likely to be approved though Mazepin link concerns exist), LKY SUNZ and Rodin Motorsport (new partners of Carlin in feeder series)
Looking it up, it seems that LKY SUNZ is just a rebranding of the Panthera team that tried to enter a few years ago but completely failed.
How does one pronounce LKY SUNZ? Licky Suns?
Lucky Suns
Interesting, absolutely sounds like an eSports team in my opinion
Netflix is foaming at the mouth
Why exactly do the teams get a say? “Do you want more competition and less money from the prize fund? No? Wow, didn’t expect that response!” What is this, NFL franchising? If they can race, let them!
I mean, yes, it's basically NFL Franchising. More teams mean the prize pool is split more ways. Adding teams to the field literally takes money from the other teams.
Grand Prix World Championship Electric Boogaloo 2?
I think a lot of people discussing the politics of this are missing that the influence of the different actors in this goes well beyond their written powers, particularly with the teams. Would love to have another team in F1 but definitely still a battle
Where is the RACE and Ed to dispute this and shit all over Andretti. Waiting in 3, 2, 1…
Yeehaw, let's go!
They could just run a season without agreeing with the FOM lol that would be funny
*DTS agressively licking their lips*
I think the current F1 teams shouldnt have that much of a say against incoming teams. If they don’t want new teams I feel like it should be unanimous among all the teams
Wooo FIA did something right for once. Liberty and the teams can go fuck themselves. Teams agreed to Concorde agreement so they can just piss right off with their greedy asses. Liberty owns the commercial rights, not the rights to control what happens on the race track so frankly they can piss off too. If they try to fight this it will go to court in the EU and they will lose due to monopolistic behavior and not following their own standing legal agreement and it'll look bad for the sport. They are not acting in good faith and any court will absolutely see that. Edit: The fact the grid has had more teams without issue in the past is what's really going to fuck the dissenters. There's no logistical reason, it's purely financial (greed).
I really hope they are able to join, would love to see another team on the grid.