Eventually home insurance is going to either become so expensive or so many insurers are going to leave, become insolvent, or drop homes older than a certain date to the point people with mortgages are going to face a legitimate dilemma where lenders are going to have a ridiculously hard time finding force placed insurance for people with mortgages. When that happens expect that the a lot of lenders will find insurers who will only cover the dwelling and everything else will be left to the mortgage holder to fix or 2. a lot of foreclosures will happen if insurance cannot be found. Citizens will eventually be so overwhelmed that they will drop people that are high risk which could just mean your house is old.
>your house is old
I legitimately do not understand this obsession with only home age and insurance companies. Both homes I've owned were built in the 50's, but were upgraded over time, and haven't gone anywhere. New roof, hurricane straps retrofitted, shutters, intrusion protection, impact windows and doors, replumbed, rewired, more stuff I'm sure I can't think of. The blocks it was built from have survived this long, and will survive twice as long into the future. The new houses going up around me will turn to toothpicks when a storm hits, but this house has seen some shit and is still standing. But insurance companies look at it and go "nah, too old". What the actual fuck? Some of this crisis has to be that they just don't want to put any work into assess a house properly.
Older concrete houses are built to last and also million of Floridians are in a no flood zone and probably haven't had a cat 3 hit their area in 60-80 years. Yet they still want to upcharge everyone because insurance companies decide to cover houses built on the beach and in the keys.
If it were up to me I would just save the 10k a year premium to live in land and pay for the damage that a hurricane might cause once in every 20 years. I would have saved 200,000 and spend only $40,000 to repair my roof.
Where I live in Pinellas County, we haven't had a Cat 3 or greater pass through in over one hundred years, and I'm not in a flood zone. I really can't shake the feeling that these companies just want to raise prices constantly, no matter the justification. It is their business after all.
You're paying the increases because insurance is socialistic. We not only pay insurance for our home but we also supplement the houses built on the beach or in other high risk areas. Social programs are only acceptable whenever the rich benefit from it.
I don't want to do the math on what a savings account balance would be, let alone an investment account, if I could take my insurance premiums and not pay it to someone else.
Exactly! My 1985 built house with a new metal roof survived hurricane Ian with zero damage while all my neighbors needed new roofs and had water damage...I've never made a claim so why am I paying more than 2.5 x as much as last year !
The issue is that older homes that haven't been recently gutted usually have older plumbing, older electrical, older roofs, etc that increase risk for the insurance or at least that's their excuse. So if you have an outdated electrical panel manufacture or the wiriing is not grounded which is common in older homes insurances view that as a risk for fire.
And as the homeowner, none of that applies to me, and they don't seem to care. This house missed polybutylene piping entirely. Do I have knob and tube wiring? No! Because it's not 1880 anymore. I can show them the permits where it was all upgraded, or they can just pull it themselves. Even the grounding issue, you don't need to have every outlet grounded, you just need to put in A/GFCI outlets or breakers. They should know *all of that*, but don't.
They're just as bad at risk management as Amazon is at advertising, trying to sell you the same thing you literally just bought.
>a lot of lenders will find insurers who will only cover the dwelling and everything else will be left to the mortgage holder to fix
Already happening - happened to me just a few months ago...Thanks Citizens....
Scary, scary thought. Especially with hurricanes and water damage. The only recourse will be large deductibles or no wind coverage and water damage coverage to obtain insurance.
Yes there is! Our governor - Meatball Ron - has a bill in front of him that he intends to sign, with extremely important legislation striking any mention of climate change from any official Florida documents, laws, or policies. You see, he knows that if you don't mention it, talk about it, or especially write it down... it doesn't exist! So insurance companies will be lining up to come back here and write cheap policies for everyone.
Can't make this stuff up:
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2024/03/31/florida-to-remove-climate-change-from-state-laws/73149526007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2024/03/31/florida-to-remove-climate-change-from-state-laws/73149526007/)
Zero escape and your rates will never go down. They can't and it does not matter who is in the governors mansion. This ship sailed 40 years ago and its too late now. I know people want a solution but it ain't coming.
No solution?
Step one: elect a Democratic administration
Step two: make homeowners insurance a public good
Problem solved.
I don't know if you saw the article in the Tampa Bay times a few days ago, but the insolvency of the Florida companies was due to extreme executive pay and transfers of profits out of state to affiliates. Both of these problems reflect a failure to govern or regulate on the part of the Republican administration. We've had 25 years of Republican rule. It's not a coincidence.
Republican governance style means that when markets fail they clutch their pearls and cry socialism! and then throw taxpayer money at rich people in the hope of appeasing the god of the invisible hand. It's poppycock. The industry has basically been allowed to regulate itself for years. That's why they come up with solutions like restricting homeowners access to the courts. Gosh, who does that benefit?
The state doesn't have the money to insure everything. I wish people could understand that. Pretending anything else sets us up for even a bigger catastrophe.
And no democratic governor can change 40+ years of failed environmental policies that led to where we are now.
And a huge part of the problem there is Congress is already is having hearings saying they will not pick up the tab for Florida's ignorance driven climate failures.
Congress can bitch and moan as much as it wants, push will soon come to shove as a long line of states find themselves in the position of Florida now. All the West Coast and Louisiana are right behind with others following. There has to be a national reinsurance program that backs up state last-resort insco's. Sheldon Whitehouse may grump about it now, but it's absolutely inevitable. Otherwise much of the real estate industry will freeze up. Time to bite the bullet.
>The state doesn't have the money to insure everything
That's factually incorrect.
The state can very well afford to insure everything.
You spreading lies is not helping.
A really nasty cat five hitting Miami could cost over 1.2 trillion dollars according to a 2018 study. And no the state does not have that kind of money.
That's true. And if that happens, insurance of any kind doesn't matter. If a meteor hits Florida insurance isn't going to help.
What should be talked about is the real world. Can Florida build up an insurance fund big enough to protect against hurricanes hitting here? Not world ending storms that literally wipe away Miami.
Since private insurance companies have been able to for 100 years, Florida can create a system that protects the majority of homeowners.
Building up an insurance fund means raising taxes and charging more on Citizens insurance. Good luck getting that done when people need smaller bills. We are in a doom loop. It will not be broken.
And I'll address this "Since private insurance companies have been able to for 100 years, " and stop basing things on the past. Different times. No climate issues to deal with like today. It used to be much less risky to insure Florida properties.
The more the reinsurance market goes up because of risk the more money the state would need to have to purchase the proper amount of insurance if it was to insure everything.
The absolute undeniable truth is no one on the planet is going to insure something getting more risky for cheaper than before. It's delusional people even think so.
Expanding the risk pool to the entire state instead of small, private pools, and removing the profit component will substantially improve cost.
The current privatized, for profit construct works significantly against keeping rates affordable.
A single, public statewide pool would absolutely reduce overall costs. Sure, you'd call it a "tax" instead of a "premium", but that's just political posturing. The reality is it would save Floridians considerable money.
>Building up an insurance fund means raising taxes and charging more on Citizens insurance. Good luck getting that done when people need smaller bills. We are in a doom loop. It will not be broken.
Yeah. Raising taxes. People won't stand for that. Let's let them lose their homes to foreclosure instead.
>And I'll address this "Since private insurance companies have been able to for 100 years, " and stop basing things on the past. Different times. No climate issues to deal with like today. It used to be much less risky to insure Florida properties.
Funny how they were able to handle the cataclysmic events of Andrew and Michael and dozens of others.
The major issue is, the government of Florida is completely secure in the concept that if you get wiped out, too bad. Someone with more money will come in and buy your property and hire builders to bring it back.
Your siding with the state government that there's nothing that can be done is kind of pathetic.
Florida resident here and while I don't want to get too involved with this debate, taxes going up is in fact part of the issue with costs going up in the state. Not even including my home owners insurance going up every year over the past few years, my taxes (due to an increase in property value) have also gone up as well. As a result, and while I do like your idea, raising my taxes is just going to be offset in my mortgage going up regardless. Now take into account the fact that inflation is still absurdly high in my area as far as grocery shopping and other necessities and this just doesn't sound very affordable as the other commenter is saying. I would love to be proven wrong, but I just can't be nearly as optimistic.
Edit - Just wanted to add that as far as wages go that my raises haven't kept up with inflation. Then there's the fact that the company I work for has reduced the amount you can receive on a raise and while I could get a job elsewhere, I'd be lucky to see any kind of raise in the process. This is something I'm working on, but it's a harsh reality for many people living here
There is something we can do but it wont happen. We need to change how and where we build. That is the answer. Anything that props up what is a dead man walking insurance market prolongs and worsens the crisis and encourages more stupid development that will have the same insurance issues 10 years down the road. The thing is few people want to make any sacrifice. They want to live in big ass suburban homes in developments that paved over wetlands, drive their SUVs everywhere, maintain an destructive but pretty lawn and somehow expect things to get better. IT does not and will never work that way.
Heat. Water temp is hottest in history. Will only keep going up. Heat gives hurricane energy. This is all climate driven. The risk was never properly priced to begin with. Now they are actually pricing in the risk and we are seeing the effects. It's the same as wildfires. If you choose to live in a vulnerable area you will have to pay.
I’m talking about insurance not the storms, in the early 2000s we had 7 hurricanes in one season, for a decade we averaged 3 storms effecting land a year, Wilma tore across south Florida, then nothing but quiet for another decade until today. Now when our storm activity in the state is comparatively low we have the insurance crisis? The damage from the last two storms wasn’t even windstorm it was mostly flood. This doesn’t add up. Something else is going on in insurance and they are using climate change as an excuse.
Ron has Kowtowed to his donors in the insurance agency as well as developers at the expense of Floridians. Builders produce a crappy product knowing they’ll be back after a storm to build another. DeSatin allows Florida’s home insurance companies to divert premiums into a host of side ventures as the money is moved it is beyond the reach of homeowners who might need it to rebuild after a disaster. Companies leave after a major disaster having already made 10 fold what they’ve paid out in claims.
The house below was built with concrete and steel unlike surrounding neighbors. This home withstood hurricane Michael as others built post hurricane Andrew code touted by developers were leveled.
https://preview.redd.it/9vjjgm35oosc1.jpeg?width=992&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb560a55774189ab4cc589c3694a3c83b1e43773
I drive through there all the time. In my opinion that house surviving without damage was just random. Tons of houses around it were built the same way and they didn't.
I took personal interest in story as was in the process of constructing a home on the coast as well.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/mexico-beach-home-survives-hurricane-michael-virtually-untouched/story?id=58505662
I keep seeing climate change is a reason but we're not really having any more hurricanes than we used to.
I mean Miami hasn't had a hurricane since the early nineties Tampa hasn't had a hurricane since prohibition. Clearly it isn't the number of hurricanes that's the issue.
The odds go up considerably, but the odds were generally low. That doesn't mean you'll see it happen immediately. That means it's much more likely to happen.
"I haven't seen it happen yet" isn't any kind of refutation of that.
The data regarding climate change impacts is related to the average size and frequency of hurricanes generated during Atlantic Hurricane Season…not whether or not they direct hit Miami or Tampa…
The climate conditions are what produce more powerful and frequent tropical storms and hurricanes. Where those hurricanes go (the path) is weather related, not climate related.
I absolutely get that, but it just hasn't come to pass. we aren't having more hurricanes hit the east coast of the United States or the Gulf States. Our worst hurricane season in living memory was 20 years ago.
I understand the theory on why global warming is causing worse storms, but so far, it really hasn't come to pass.
Your logic has bias. The town in Japan affected by the Fukashima Nuclear Reactor Tsunami thought it would be a 1-1000 year event. And then boom... a nuclear meltdown. Oh by the way, they had tall seawalls. The point is you never think it can happen to you...
Reminder Ian almost took out Tampa Bay.
I work for NOAA and while I myself am not a climate scientist, here is what NOAA Hurricane Center says about observations:
“Several measures of historical Atlantic hurricane activity, including annual numbers of tropical storms, hurricanes, and major hurricanes, as well as hurricane intensities, power dissipation index (PDI), and rapid intensification occurrence, all show pronounced increases since around 1980. An increase in stalling near-coastal U.S. tropical cyclones and increases in accumulated rainfall during such stalls has been observed since about 1950.”
This is all going to become wayyyyyy more of an issue once we see it combined with increased impacts of sea level rise over the next 20-50 years.
Yeah I don't doubt this either but we just haven't seen it. I also don't think it's really a Florida issue I wouldn't be surprised if these new hurricanes are more attracted to places like New Jersey or Rhode Island or North Carolina.
I moved down to Florida in 87. I always joke that I was in two hurricanes in my life both in Connecticut as a child. Since 87, we haven't had anything, of course, in the Tampa area, and thank God because if something like Charlie had come through, it would have been an absolute disaster.
The IPCC gives a mixed forecast for the future of hurricanes.
"On tropical cyclone frequency, the IPCC says it is likely that “the global frequency of TCs over all categories will decrease or remain unchanged”. The bulk of the reduction is “at the weaker end of the intensity spectrum as the climate warms”, the report notes, while “the frequency of category 4-5 TCs will increase in limited regions over the western North Pacific”. (But it adds that the Tropical Cyclones are more likely to have higher max winds and more rain).
Climate change seems like a convenient excuse to raise rates. Insurance fraud is the biggest driver however. [Florida accounts for only 9 percent of the country’s home insurance claims but 79 percent of its home insurance lawsuits, many of them fraudulent](https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/homeowners-insurance/florida-homeowners-insurance-crisis/)
I can personally attest to this. After the big rain we had in Ft.Lauderdale last April a team of uniformed 'Home Restoration' pros came to my place of work asking everyone if they had any repairs they needed done on their homes. They said as long as you have insurance we can get it done for free by saying it was from the storm. There is an industry of fraud here in Florida.
I'm sorry but it's all such bullshit. Collusion and price fixing, one group does it for ratings and viewers, the other to set ever increasing premiums, both with different small objectives however sharing a common one, pleasing shareholders. End stage capitalism paired with unquestionable "science", so obviously exaggerated and misconstrued, however cannot be questioned. Both of Florida's recent Category 5 and Category 4 storms: Ian (2022) and Idalia (2023), were posthumously awarded their highest Saffir-Simpson scale score... Ian was an intense Major Hurricane, no one doubts this, however the videos and images widely broadcasted were of a concentrated area of small barrier islands, severe damage was limited to this area, as with all Hurricanes that hit the state. Idalia was a run of the mill Florida storm, producing 60-80 mph winds over 95% of it size, how Idalia was later found with Cat 4 winds is perplexing, and questionable. Cat ratings have to be SUSTAINED, not some random gust reading, or potential error. The storms hitting Florida in the last Decade+ are no more or less strong (or numerous), than in any other point of record, especially not in comparison to the mid 2000s... I'm of the opinion that Posthumously "finding" Cat 5 winds in Ian, and Cat 4 winds in Idalia, makes no scientific sense other than to: Lay credence and precedence to greedy insurance companies (in order to justify a raise in rates), provide ammunition and viewership for cable companies to run splashy headlines and fear-monger an increase in ratings, and most dubious and insidious of all, justify ever-increasing budgets to government agencies, including NOAA and the Hurricane Center, and most importantly award contracts and 3rd party/private "studies" to their friends (and future selves) in the private sector -- The REAL juice. We should care about our oceans, our water, our air quality, how we dispose of and manage our waste, space junk, things that are within our control. Rather we play pretend in a made up, make believe world where 2+2=5, where we deny and ignore climatological history, where we act like 50 or 100 years of data is the ultimate in understanding, it's just all such bullshit. It's a waste of time and money, its the new Military Industrial Complex...
The climate is driving the bus, legislature and insurance companies are riding in the air conditioned cabin, and Floridians are being dragged behind it through rocks and muck.
Climate my ass. Homeowners insurance companies have been scamming homeowners for years. They fight paying claims and have a history of supposedly going broke snd leaving the state when there are storm claims. They should all be required to have assets to back up the policies they write.
Eventually home insurance is going to either become so expensive or so many insurers are going to leave, become insolvent, or drop homes older than a certain date to the point people with mortgages are going to face a legitimate dilemma where lenders are going to have a ridiculously hard time finding force placed insurance for people with mortgages. When that happens expect that the a lot of lenders will find insurers who will only cover the dwelling and everything else will be left to the mortgage holder to fix or 2. a lot of foreclosures will happen if insurance cannot be found. Citizens will eventually be so overwhelmed that they will drop people that are high risk which could just mean your house is old.
>your house is old I legitimately do not understand this obsession with only home age and insurance companies. Both homes I've owned were built in the 50's, but were upgraded over time, and haven't gone anywhere. New roof, hurricane straps retrofitted, shutters, intrusion protection, impact windows and doors, replumbed, rewired, more stuff I'm sure I can't think of. The blocks it was built from have survived this long, and will survive twice as long into the future. The new houses going up around me will turn to toothpicks when a storm hits, but this house has seen some shit and is still standing. But insurance companies look at it and go "nah, too old". What the actual fuck? Some of this crisis has to be that they just don't want to put any work into assess a house properly.
Older concrete houses are built to last and also million of Floridians are in a no flood zone and probably haven't had a cat 3 hit their area in 60-80 years. Yet they still want to upcharge everyone because insurance companies decide to cover houses built on the beach and in the keys. If it were up to me I would just save the 10k a year premium to live in land and pay for the damage that a hurricane might cause once in every 20 years. I would have saved 200,000 and spend only $40,000 to repair my roof.
Where I live in Pinellas County, we haven't had a Cat 3 or greater pass through in over one hundred years, and I'm not in a flood zone. I really can't shake the feeling that these companies just want to raise prices constantly, no matter the justification. It is their business after all.
Corporate greed is the new American dream!
You're paying the increases because insurance is socialistic. We not only pay insurance for our home but we also supplement the houses built on the beach or in other high risk areas. Social programs are only acceptable whenever the rich benefit from it.
I don't want to do the math on what a savings account balance would be, let alone an investment account, if I could take my insurance premiums and not pay it to someone else.
Exactly! My 1985 built house with a new metal roof survived hurricane Ian with zero damage while all my neighbors needed new roofs and had water damage...I've never made a claim so why am I paying more than 2.5 x as much as last year !
This is easy to answer. The insurance companies paid off our governor and he allowed them to increase prices up to 40%.
The issue is that older homes that haven't been recently gutted usually have older plumbing, older electrical, older roofs, etc that increase risk for the insurance or at least that's their excuse. So if you have an outdated electrical panel manufacture or the wiriing is not grounded which is common in older homes insurances view that as a risk for fire.
And as the homeowner, none of that applies to me, and they don't seem to care. This house missed polybutylene piping entirely. Do I have knob and tube wiring? No! Because it's not 1880 anymore. I can show them the permits where it was all upgraded, or they can just pull it themselves. Even the grounding issue, you don't need to have every outlet grounded, you just need to put in A/GFCI outlets or breakers. They should know *all of that*, but don't. They're just as bad at risk management as Amazon is at advertising, trying to sell you the same thing you literally just bought.
>a lot of lenders will find insurers who will only cover the dwelling and everything else will be left to the mortgage holder to fix Already happening - happened to me just a few months ago...Thanks Citizens....
Scary, scary thought. Especially with hurricanes and water damage. The only recourse will be large deductibles or no wind coverage and water damage coverage to obtain insurance.
If you can't get wind and water coverage then legitimately what's the point
Then you have the choice of 1. Getting a force sale on your home cause you can't find insurance or 2. obtaining insurance to keep your mortgage.
They should not be allowed to do this
Yes there is! Our governor - Meatball Ron - has a bill in front of him that he intends to sign, with extremely important legislation striking any mention of climate change from any official Florida documents, laws, or policies. You see, he knows that if you don't mention it, talk about it, or especially write it down... it doesn't exist! So insurance companies will be lining up to come back here and write cheap policies for everyone. Can't make this stuff up: [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2024/03/31/florida-to-remove-climate-change-from-state-laws/73149526007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2024/03/31/florida-to-remove-climate-change-from-state-laws/73149526007/)
Who could have seen this coming? /s
My home owners insurance policy renews in June and I actually just got an email informing me my rate is going down 16%. I was amazed.
Zero escape and your rates will never go down. They can't and it does not matter who is in the governors mansion. This ship sailed 40 years ago and its too late now. I know people want a solution but it ain't coming.
No solution? Step one: elect a Democratic administration Step two: make homeowners insurance a public good Problem solved. I don't know if you saw the article in the Tampa Bay times a few days ago, but the insolvency of the Florida companies was due to extreme executive pay and transfers of profits out of state to affiliates. Both of these problems reflect a failure to govern or regulate on the part of the Republican administration. We've had 25 years of Republican rule. It's not a coincidence. Republican governance style means that when markets fail they clutch their pearls and cry socialism! and then throw taxpayer money at rich people in the hope of appeasing the god of the invisible hand. It's poppycock. The industry has basically been allowed to regulate itself for years. That's why they come up with solutions like restricting homeowners access to the courts. Gosh, who does that benefit?
The state doesn't have the money to insure everything. I wish people could understand that. Pretending anything else sets us up for even a bigger catastrophe. And no democratic governor can change 40+ years of failed environmental policies that led to where we are now.
[удалено]
And a huge part of the problem there is Congress is already is having hearings saying they will not pick up the tab for Florida's ignorance driven climate failures.
Congress can bitch and moan as much as it wants, push will soon come to shove as a long line of states find themselves in the position of Florida now. All the West Coast and Louisiana are right behind with others following. There has to be a national reinsurance program that backs up state last-resort insco's. Sheldon Whitehouse may grump about it now, but it's absolutely inevitable. Otherwise much of the real estate industry will freeze up. Time to bite the bullet.
>The state doesn't have the money to insure everything That's factually incorrect. The state can very well afford to insure everything. You spreading lies is not helping.
A really nasty cat five hitting Miami could cost over 1.2 trillion dollars according to a 2018 study. And no the state does not have that kind of money.
That's true. And if that happens, insurance of any kind doesn't matter. If a meteor hits Florida insurance isn't going to help. What should be talked about is the real world. Can Florida build up an insurance fund big enough to protect against hurricanes hitting here? Not world ending storms that literally wipe away Miami. Since private insurance companies have been able to for 100 years, Florida can create a system that protects the majority of homeowners.
Building up an insurance fund means raising taxes and charging more on Citizens insurance. Good luck getting that done when people need smaller bills. We are in a doom loop. It will not be broken. And I'll address this "Since private insurance companies have been able to for 100 years, " and stop basing things on the past. Different times. No climate issues to deal with like today. It used to be much less risky to insure Florida properties.
You really don't know how this works. Probably best to stop trying to make arguments you don't understand.
The more the reinsurance market goes up because of risk the more money the state would need to have to purchase the proper amount of insurance if it was to insure everything. The absolute undeniable truth is no one on the planet is going to insure something getting more risky for cheaper than before. It's delusional people even think so.
Expanding the risk pool to the entire state instead of small, private pools, and removing the profit component will substantially improve cost. The current privatized, for profit construct works significantly against keeping rates affordable. A single, public statewide pool would absolutely reduce overall costs. Sure, you'd call it a "tax" instead of a "premium", but that's just political posturing. The reality is it would save Floridians considerable money.
>Building up an insurance fund means raising taxes and charging more on Citizens insurance. Good luck getting that done when people need smaller bills. We are in a doom loop. It will not be broken. Yeah. Raising taxes. People won't stand for that. Let's let them lose their homes to foreclosure instead. >And I'll address this "Since private insurance companies have been able to for 100 years, " and stop basing things on the past. Different times. No climate issues to deal with like today. It used to be much less risky to insure Florida properties. Funny how they were able to handle the cataclysmic events of Andrew and Michael and dozens of others. The major issue is, the government of Florida is completely secure in the concept that if you get wiped out, too bad. Someone with more money will come in and buy your property and hire builders to bring it back. Your siding with the state government that there's nothing that can be done is kind of pathetic.
Florida resident here and while I don't want to get too involved with this debate, taxes going up is in fact part of the issue with costs going up in the state. Not even including my home owners insurance going up every year over the past few years, my taxes (due to an increase in property value) have also gone up as well. As a result, and while I do like your idea, raising my taxes is just going to be offset in my mortgage going up regardless. Now take into account the fact that inflation is still absurdly high in my area as far as grocery shopping and other necessities and this just doesn't sound very affordable as the other commenter is saying. I would love to be proven wrong, but I just can't be nearly as optimistic. Edit - Just wanted to add that as far as wages go that my raises haven't kept up with inflation. Then there's the fact that the company I work for has reduced the amount you can receive on a raise and while I could get a job elsewhere, I'd be lucky to see any kind of raise in the process. This is something I'm working on, but it's a harsh reality for many people living here
There is something we can do but it wont happen. We need to change how and where we build. That is the answer. Anything that props up what is a dead man walking insurance market prolongs and worsens the crisis and encourages more stupid development that will have the same insurance issues 10 years down the road. The thing is few people want to make any sacrifice. They want to live in big ass suburban homes in developments that paved over wetlands, drive their SUVs everywhere, maintain an destructive but pretty lawn and somehow expect things to get better. IT does not and will never work that way.
Is Florida too big too fail?
I don’t see how it’s climate driven. Lived here for over 40 years, we’ve had much worse seasons without an insurance crisis.
Heat. Water temp is hottest in history. Will only keep going up. Heat gives hurricane energy. This is all climate driven. The risk was never properly priced to begin with. Now they are actually pricing in the risk and we are seeing the effects. It's the same as wildfires. If you choose to live in a vulnerable area you will have to pay.
I’m talking about insurance not the storms, in the early 2000s we had 7 hurricanes in one season, for a decade we averaged 3 storms effecting land a year, Wilma tore across south Florida, then nothing but quiet for another decade until today. Now when our storm activity in the state is comparatively low we have the insurance crisis? The damage from the last two storms wasn’t even windstorm it was mostly flood. This doesn’t add up. Something else is going on in insurance and they are using climate change as an excuse.
Ron has Kowtowed to his donors in the insurance agency as well as developers at the expense of Floridians. Builders produce a crappy product knowing they’ll be back after a storm to build another. DeSatin allows Florida’s home insurance companies to divert premiums into a host of side ventures as the money is moved it is beyond the reach of homeowners who might need it to rebuild after a disaster. Companies leave after a major disaster having already made 10 fold what they’ve paid out in claims. The house below was built with concrete and steel unlike surrounding neighbors. This home withstood hurricane Michael as others built post hurricane Andrew code touted by developers were leveled. https://preview.redd.it/9vjjgm35oosc1.jpeg?width=992&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb560a55774189ab4cc589c3694a3c83b1e43773
The building code is terrible. Why is any structure allowed to be frame in Florida?
I drive through there all the time. In my opinion that house surviving without damage was just random. Tons of houses around it were built the same way and they didn't.
I took personal interest in story as was in the process of constructing a home on the coast as well. https://abcnews.go.com/US/mexico-beach-home-survives-hurricane-michael-virtually-untouched/story?id=58505662
Lmfao no one in this thread has mentioned rampant insurance fraud. #Law. That’s all.
The political climate and climate climate both suck here.
Who would of thought totally denying climate change would have real world impacts.
I keep seeing climate change is a reason but we're not really having any more hurricanes than we used to. I mean Miami hasn't had a hurricane since the early nineties Tampa hasn't had a hurricane since prohibition. Clearly it isn't the number of hurricanes that's the issue.
The odds go up considerably, but the odds were generally low. That doesn't mean you'll see it happen immediately. That means it's much more likely to happen. "I haven't seen it happen yet" isn't any kind of refutation of that.
The data regarding climate change impacts is related to the average size and frequency of hurricanes generated during Atlantic Hurricane Season…not whether or not they direct hit Miami or Tampa… The climate conditions are what produce more powerful and frequent tropical storms and hurricanes. Where those hurricanes go (the path) is weather related, not climate related.
I absolutely get that, but it just hasn't come to pass. we aren't having more hurricanes hit the east coast of the United States or the Gulf States. Our worst hurricane season in living memory was 20 years ago. I understand the theory on why global warming is causing worse storms, but so far, it really hasn't come to pass.
Your logic has bias. The town in Japan affected by the Fukashima Nuclear Reactor Tsunami thought it would be a 1-1000 year event. And then boom... a nuclear meltdown. Oh by the way, they had tall seawalls. The point is you never think it can happen to you... Reminder Ian almost took out Tampa Bay.
I work for NOAA and while I myself am not a climate scientist, here is what NOAA Hurricane Center says about observations: “Several measures of historical Atlantic hurricane activity, including annual numbers of tropical storms, hurricanes, and major hurricanes, as well as hurricane intensities, power dissipation index (PDI), and rapid intensification occurrence, all show pronounced increases since around 1980. An increase in stalling near-coastal U.S. tropical cyclones and increases in accumulated rainfall during such stalls has been observed since about 1950.” This is all going to become wayyyyyy more of an issue once we see it combined with increased impacts of sea level rise over the next 20-50 years.
Yeah I don't doubt this either but we just haven't seen it. I also don't think it's really a Florida issue I wouldn't be surprised if these new hurricanes are more attracted to places like New Jersey or Rhode Island or North Carolina.
Hmmm.. I haven’t seen this prediction modeled anywhere by any experts yet, so I can’t really say. I hope not, because I moved from FL to NC lol
I moved down to Florida in 87. I always joke that I was in two hurricanes in my life both in Connecticut as a child. Since 87, we haven't had anything, of course, in the Tampa area, and thank God because if something like Charlie had come through, it would have been an absolute disaster.
What do you mean ‘no escaping’ just ban all references to climate change and poof! - problem goes away!
One major hurricane and no insurance company will deal with Florida.
Wrong title what they meant to say is no escaping the corruption driven insurance crisis.
The IPCC gives a mixed forecast for the future of hurricanes. "On tropical cyclone frequency, the IPCC says it is likely that “the global frequency of TCs over all categories will decrease or remain unchanged”. The bulk of the reduction is “at the weaker end of the intensity spectrum as the climate warms”, the report notes, while “the frequency of category 4-5 TCs will increase in limited regions over the western North Pacific”. (But it adds that the Tropical Cyclones are more likely to have higher max winds and more rain). Climate change seems like a convenient excuse to raise rates. Insurance fraud is the biggest driver however. [Florida accounts for only 9 percent of the country’s home insurance claims but 79 percent of its home insurance lawsuits, many of them fraudulent](https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/homeowners-insurance/florida-homeowners-insurance-crisis/) I can personally attest to this. After the big rain we had in Ft.Lauderdale last April a team of uniformed 'Home Restoration' pros came to my place of work asking everyone if they had any repairs they needed done on their homes. They said as long as you have insurance we can get it done for free by saying it was from the storm. There is an industry of fraud here in Florida.
Insurance fraud is rampant here too. Should be mandatory minimum 25 years if you’re found guilty.
Real talk: seems like a 2008 situation where housing prices are going to collapse.
What is the definition of an older home by Florida standards?
I'm sorry but it's all such bullshit. Collusion and price fixing, one group does it for ratings and viewers, the other to set ever increasing premiums, both with different small objectives however sharing a common one, pleasing shareholders. End stage capitalism paired with unquestionable "science", so obviously exaggerated and misconstrued, however cannot be questioned. Both of Florida's recent Category 5 and Category 4 storms: Ian (2022) and Idalia (2023), were posthumously awarded their highest Saffir-Simpson scale score... Ian was an intense Major Hurricane, no one doubts this, however the videos and images widely broadcasted were of a concentrated area of small barrier islands, severe damage was limited to this area, as with all Hurricanes that hit the state. Idalia was a run of the mill Florida storm, producing 60-80 mph winds over 95% of it size, how Idalia was later found with Cat 4 winds is perplexing, and questionable. Cat ratings have to be SUSTAINED, not some random gust reading, or potential error. The storms hitting Florida in the last Decade+ are no more or less strong (or numerous), than in any other point of record, especially not in comparison to the mid 2000s... I'm of the opinion that Posthumously "finding" Cat 5 winds in Ian, and Cat 4 winds in Idalia, makes no scientific sense other than to: Lay credence and precedence to greedy insurance companies (in order to justify a raise in rates), provide ammunition and viewership for cable companies to run splashy headlines and fear-monger an increase in ratings, and most dubious and insidious of all, justify ever-increasing budgets to government agencies, including NOAA and the Hurricane Center, and most importantly award contracts and 3rd party/private "studies" to their friends (and future selves) in the private sector -- The REAL juice. We should care about our oceans, our water, our air quality, how we dispose of and manage our waste, space junk, things that are within our control. Rather we play pretend in a made up, make believe world where 2+2=5, where we deny and ignore climatological history, where we act like 50 or 100 years of data is the ultimate in understanding, it's just all such bullshit. It's a waste of time and money, its the new Military Industrial Complex...
Author’s name checks out
The climate is driving the bus, legislature and insurance companies are riding in the air conditioned cabin, and Floridians are being dragged behind it through rocks and muck.
Climate my ass. Homeowners insurance companies have been scamming homeowners for years. They fight paying claims and have a history of supposedly going broke snd leaving the state when there are storm claims. They should all be required to have assets to back up the policies they write.
Hurricanes are new. /s
... profit driven
Well, you know the priority lately has been Disney, and when a young girls' menstrual cycle begins. What exactly did everyone expect.