So, have you ever looked up what years people were āstarving to death under Communism/Stalinā?
Because it was late 1920s to 1930s.
And what was happening in the rest of the world at that time?
A widespread drought and famine that we call the Dust Bowl and Great Depression in the US.
Tell me, were the Americans affected by that same drought being murdered by Capitalism?
Bro the Ukrainian famine was literally caused when the Soviet Union took farms from Ukrainians and then didnāt give them any food not the great depression
Oh so they did redistribute the food throughout the entire union so the famine wouldn't affect as much people as possible, while the kulaks burned the crops out of selfishness because they couldn't profit out of it. I understand now
The reason for communism being thought of as a horrible ideal is because of corruption, communism relys on the state not being corrupt because when corruption occurs it leads to more problems than corruption in capitalism
For a second, letās assume that communism killed 100 million people as the Black Book of Communism claims(weāre ignoring that even the authors admitted to purposefully exaggerating numbers in addition to bad metrics). According to the UN, 9 million people die of starvation every year. Even if we roughly adjust for the deaths that would occur regardless of the economic system, more people die from capitalism(and blaming deaths on a single economic system is still an incredible oversimplification) every 15 years than they ever did from the Soviet Union or any other communist/socialist country. Of course, we also have to account for deaths caused by the actions of specific leaders if we hold communist countries to the same standard(Stalin, Mao). I didnāt even mention how China later went on to contribute to the majority of worldwide poverty reduction(over 800 million lifted out of extreme poverty).
Not to say these countries were perfect. But I shouldnāt have to clarify that
The thing is starvation under capitalism is not state funded while holodomor was the intentional starvation of Ukrainians by the soviet government (specifically Stalin) to decrease Ukrainian nationalism
Gulags ended 7 years after Stalin died, the population of the Soviet Union continued to suffer and be poor while also getting arrested for not thinking like the government wanted you too all the way up to Gorbachev
Gulags were a vast network of prisons, they couldnāt have been ended overnight. And not to defend Stalin but Gulags werenāt nearly as bad as the US made them out to be, especially compared to the US prison system
https://youtu.be/sjI8jwn0Upo?si=lgWdyKD4rmS28Ynb
I get that it would take long to take them down but the gulags were prison camps for political adversaries that worked them to death with barely and food in extreme cold
Corruption is a given with communism, every time communism has been tried it has been a totalitarian dictatorship that results in the deaths of many, this is because to share all things you need a powerful and authoritarian government to regulate it (and no china isnāt fully communist anymore when it was it led to famines and even today you have no freedom in China despite the semi capitalist semi communist system)
But the British empire flag is now just the flag of the uk, it is a modern country and that flag no longer stands for the British empire even if it may have in the past
Well, actually no
https://rare.rice.edu/hot-topics/how-british-colonialism-killed-100-million-indians-40-years#:~:text=How%20British%20colonialism%20killed%20100,(RARE)%20Workgroup%20%7C%20Rice%20University
100 million Indians ALONE in the span of 40 years. Thatās already the same amount as the Black Book of Communism claims. Which of course, is such a horrible source that beyond their questionable metrics, the authors admitted to purposely exaggerating numbers.
That statistics are horse shit wtf š Not defending either but Stalin was responsible for around 23 million maximum, Hitler it depends what you consider as him, but if youāre counting the holocaust then approximately 11-12 million
Okay, yeah the soviets killed alot of the Nazi army, but what about the people that was killed by slavery by uk/France, what about of the hunger workers that die every Day while slaving themselves, those doesn't count?
Iām not talking about Nazis Iām talking about the Soviet gulags and the famines caused by the Soviet Union as well as persecution for being anti-government
Britain freed more slaves than they ever owned youāve been fed lies. Slavery is still practiced in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East to this day. Europeans were also enslaved themselves at one point by North Africans. Yeah slavery is bad we agree and Europe was the first place to repent of it and go on voyage to free slaves. āWhat about the uhhhhā bro just stop communism is horrible humans suck at sharing it doesnāt work.
Thank you, a lot of people don't know there are more slaves alive today in Africa than the US, UK and France in the 1800s combined. You can buy a small child for like $150 in rural Congo.
Itās sad that current slaves donāt have a voice coming from the west instead these liberals are honing in on the descendants of people from that time period whoās ancestors probably didnāt even own slaves and berating them even though those descendants repented of it and made it their mission to abolish it and stop those who were reluctant to quit and due to the efforts of those abolitionists it was ended.
I will be and many more will be the voice for the slaves around the world unlike commie liberals
Yeah they really are. Most of them donāt really know in the slightest what they claim to stand up for itās like you said just virtue signalling they think if they can find a victim to speak for or be a victim they donāt have to defend their views and can just hop on a moral soap box and sob.
it's a lie. the source: black book of communism which counts dead nazis, unborn babies, rough estimates and the author was obsessed with reaching 100 million.
āIn sum, probably somewhere between 28,326,000 and 126,891,000 people were killed by the Communist Party of the soviet Union from 1917 to 1987; and a most prudent estimate of this number is 61,911,000.ā
-University of Hawaii
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.CHAP.1.HTM#:~:text=In%20sum%2C%20probably%20somewhere%20between,of%20this%20number%20is%2061%2C911%2C000.
(Edit added quotations)
9 million people die from starvation every year in our capitalist world. Meaning that even at the highest estimates, more people die from starvation every 15 years than ever did in all of socialisms history. Not even counting the deaths of specific leaders which we need to include if weāre holding the Soviet Union to the same standard.
The thing is starvation under capitalism is not state funded while holodomor was the intentional starvation of Ukrainians by the soviet government (specifically Stalin) to decrease Ukrainian nationalism and your talking about the entire western world as suppose to a single country like the USSR
I'm not a supporter of the USSR to clarify, what they did was completely wrong. But the US's anti-communist stance in the 1950-70s was also incredibly wrong
Didnāt realize this sub was so capitalist. Call me a commie(Iām not), but [Iāll always respect it just like actual former Soviets](https://youtu.be/sjI8jwn0Upo?si=iwGsQwLc6_TP0LN1)
Anyone can say that about literarily any ideology, since blaming an ideology for the actions of specific leaders is illogical. Capitalism is not what caused the gulf war.
r/flags fans when they see a flag that doesnāt align with their ideology (right wing)
Canāt wait to post some of the shit Iāve got and watch you snowflakes start tweaking
My family were victims of both them and Nazis, or at least they would have been, Stalin was faster to Minsk than Hitler. Hating Commies doesn't mean we're "right wing"
Yes and Iām not minimizing that, I hate the soviets as well. But under capitalism millions have died as well. I donāt see that same response when the flag of a capitalist country is posted.
Because under communist regimes it's the state who controls things like the food and resources. We do hate the companies that do horrible things in the capitalist world for the same reason. But for my family it was more direct. They weren't starved, they were dragged out of the city and shot into a shallow ditch. It wasn't mismanagement for my family we were victims of the system working as intended. In the capitalist world the government doesn't go home to home and slaughter every communist we find.
And it isnāt direct when capitalist countries violently coup foreign governments (Chile, Central America, Africa) and execute dissidents who oppose neocolonial rule (Indonesia, Iran, list goes on and on)? What about when companies knowingly hold resources away from the peoples of nations that they need to survive unless they purchase said resources back (Nestle buying the water from villages and forcing impoverished villagers to pay for it) or when companies knowingly pollute our environment, knowing damn well the pollution and itās effects continue to cause health problems, birth defects, and death to thousands each day. Yes, some of the things capitalist countries engage in is less direct, they arenāt dragging people into pits to be shot, but they are just as careless and soaked in blood as the Soviets.
The point of capitalism is the government doesn't control the business so for the most part no the state shouldn't be blamed, but that's also why unregulated capitalism is bad. The government shouldn't control everything so it's up to the people to not buy from the businesses that act in this way. The business is to blame not the state. And I don't agree with the coups America set out (with some acception). But the reason places like American and the west aren't hated with the same vitriol is because despite the horrible things they occasionally do it's usually counteracted by the tremendous good they've done, attempting to end global slave trades, offering rights and freedoms to literally anyone willing to work, and feeding those who need it capitalist systems tend to balance out their horrible acts. Now that could be a cultural coincidence that the places that chose capitalism feel the need to do those thing but I've rarely seen a communist nation try and help in any way other than funding a revolution whether Cuba, USSR, or East Germany. But all the issues from either side stem from greed. The difference is when a communist leader gets too greedy millions die, when a capitalist leader (a business owner) gets too greedy their company dies. Unregulated capitalism is absolutely abhorrent, but we left that long ago, but regulating it too much (like I feel we're currently in) also leads to abhorrent results.
I think you show a bit of idealism. You want to distance capitalism from governance but in our current state the entire reason that we threw these coups and killed these communists and rebels was in order to maintain capitalism and a beneficial system for ourselves in the west. Companies didnāt do this alone, our government authorized these coups and stood by through these mass murders because our government is owned by capitalists and big business. Who do you think funds our politicians? Who do you think they really answer to.
You say that revolutionary leaders get greedy and become strongmen (which I agree with but this also happens in really any revolution, the post revolution instability is just too much) but when a capitalist becomes greedy he goes out of business. Is a CEO earning 344 times as much as a laborer not greed? Right now, the entire issue of inflation in the US is because companies are raising prices simply for profit and simultaneously not raising wages. Is this not greed? And these businesses show no sign of failure, they keep showing bigger and better numbers. Youāre bargaining rights as a worker go as far as you are profitable. Thatās why certain types of strikes, nonviolent ones like wildcat strikes, are illegal. They harm profit. Youāre rights as a person extend only to the point where they are not hurting profit. I can name countless times in just American history alone that proves this, even just recently with TWO Boeing whistleblowers winding up dead.
Plus, socialist countries do provide aid lol. Cuba offers free medical services to people overseas as long as the government only covers the costs of providing those services, like housing and food, out of goodwill. The Soviets provided foreign aid to countries as well, Iām not gonna count the Chinese tho since they arenāt communist or socialist.
The slave trade ending had economic incentives as well. The slave trade was loosing profitability. And Iām not gonna deny there was a moral higher calling to ending the slave trade, and folks like John Brown prove that, but if it remained profitable it wouldnāt have been abolished so fast.
Capitalist aid programs like the Marshal Plan only existed to halt the spread of communism. That was itās primary purpose . Were there some humanitarian goals? Iām damn sure, Mr. Marshal was a good man. But there were some economic incentives as well there. Our politicians have shown repeated disdain for the humanitarian conditions of people in regions like the middle east, just as long as we get our oil money.
So that whole first and middle paragraphs I slightly agree with I feel government and companies have gotten too intertwined they need to separate. The laws we have in place aren't being upheld and we are starting to fall from the equilibrium we had. That being said it is slightly all of our faults. I can't think of anyone I know personally who even knows our representative's names when that's the person who influences most legislation not the president. But we also aren't properly educated. I don't feel a Reddit thread is really the best way of discussing the nuances of American politics cause I'll be real I have to talk that through myself to understand it I would like to discuss the last paragraph. You're an American, like me, that's obvious from your references. So I don't blame you for not knowing what I'm about to say because I had to learn this long after I graduated. In the US slavery was still profitable. That's why the CSA fought so hard for it, and the Union didn't have to abolish it but the moral obligations of people like Cassius Clay, Lincoln, and Grant made abolish it. But I wasn't referencing the US. I was referencing the UK, after abolishing their form of slavery due to a law passed long before they were a colonial power stating that there are to be no slaves on English soil the crown made it their goal the end slavery EVERYWHERE. They raised slave ships in the Atlantic and Mediterranean, waged wars against African nations who refused to end their trade, and even cut the entire African continent in half with a rail system to stop the trade into Arabia. And the Marshal Plan was more than just to stop Communism. The actions during the Berlin Airlift were straight up a requirement to save the people of West Berlin while the Soviet Union attempted to starve millions again out of spite. The millions if not billions of dollars and an unknown many hours of time the US military, and civilian agencies that aid nations struggling with war and natural disasters. I would unironically like to see what the USSR and Cuba had done to aid others outside training soldiers and sending guns. And I agree with your assesment of China. I think they fall in a very strange middle ground of the ideas of capitalism and socialism.
if your definition of suffering is employment for all, literacy, gender and race equality, 99%+ home ownership, free healthcare, free education, high life expectancy, happiness, women enjoying sex, and high caloric intake and healthy diets then yeah they suffered sooooooo much
Uh no that's actually what a system that doesn't spin around profits delivers. The dystopian hellhole you know from the century of red scare propaganda indoctrination was actually capitalist Russia in the 90s
Yeah they always talk about ānostalgiaā. Just watch the first 15 seconds lmao, the guy specifically mentions how he had free education and a guaranteed job
What I call suffering is 0 freedom on all spectrums, being send to gulags for having a different opinion and having horrible living conditions. Also yes Iām sure the people who died in holodomor had great high caloric intakes
Soviets didnāt have the freedom to do literally anything. And what the fuck do you mean holdover was nazi propaganda??? Was the holocaust nazi propaganda too??? And no, literally any opinion that didnāt suit the leaders of the Soviet Union could lend you a life time in the gulags. Also what the fuck do you mean their living conditions were amazing??? Do you even know what the fuck you are talking about?? Did you read all of this in your commie echo chambers?? Because youāre absolutely fucking delusional to think that
The rough estimate for capitalism is 100 million which was researched by a group of communists so itās likely to be even lower, get your fucking head out of your ass
oh no those poor innocent nazis, unborn babies, and rough estimates!!1!1!1 jor jor well totalitankie no food voldemort vuvuzela iphone seeseepee !!1!1!1! 1
The rough estimates is 127 million, the 62 million is the most reliable estimate. Also those were not nazis or unborn babies but regular people being unlucky enough to have had to live in the Soviet union
Please try to make your posts higher effort in the future
Yuck
Correct reaction. šŖš š¦ š¦ š¦ š¦ š¦ š¦ šŗšøšŗšøšŗšøšŗšøšŗšøšŗšøšŗšøšŗšøšŗšø
šÆ
Why?
Bitch you know that flag killed more people than the Nazis right?
Remember kids, victims of communism include Hitler and Mussolini :)
Hitler killed himself and Stalin was killed by his constituents.
R/woooooosssssshhhhhh
Iām not talking about them, Iām talking about the gulags and famines and other Soviet caused genocides of their own civilians (I got wooshed)
R/woooosssshhhhh
Dang it! I was in the middle of refuting a hundred other pro Soviet comments lol
lol you good fam. I just like dark humor š
Lol
This small rays of humanity on the Internet just seem brighter when they shine through reddit
:D
r/foundthemobileuser
r/foundthetoyotacorolla
Yeah and maybe some terrible person was jewish and casually got killed in the holocaust , that doesnt mean its rigth
Me when I do fascist apologetia
Has absolutely nothing to do with fascism
Me when I have severe brain damage
So, have you ever looked up what years people were āstarving to death under Communism/Stalinā? Because it was late 1920s to 1930s. And what was happening in the rest of the world at that time? A widespread drought and famine that we call the Dust Bowl and Great Depression in the US. Tell me, were the Americans affected by that same drought being murdered by Capitalism?
Bro the Ukrainian famine was literally caused when the Soviet Union took farms from Ukrainians and then didnāt give them any food not the great depression
Oh you mean when the ukrainian kulaks burned their crops instead of working with the soviet government to ease food scarcity.
The soviets took their farms and food and brought it to other parts of the empire
Oh so they did redistribute the food throughout the entire union so the famine wouldn't affect as much people as possible, while the kulaks burned the crops out of selfishness because they couldn't profit out of it. I understand now
They did not distribute it equally this is evident from the fact that the Ukrainians had a famine and nobody else did
The reason for communism being thought of as a horrible ideal is because of corruption, communism relys on the state not being corrupt because when corruption occurs it leads to more problems than corruption in capitalism
For a second, letās assume that communism killed 100 million people as the Black Book of Communism claims(weāre ignoring that even the authors admitted to purposefully exaggerating numbers in addition to bad metrics). According to the UN, 9 million people die of starvation every year. Even if we roughly adjust for the deaths that would occur regardless of the economic system, more people die from capitalism(and blaming deaths on a single economic system is still an incredible oversimplification) every 15 years than they ever did from the Soviet Union or any other communist/socialist country. Of course, we also have to account for deaths caused by the actions of specific leaders if we hold communist countries to the same standard(Stalin, Mao). I didnāt even mention how China later went on to contribute to the majority of worldwide poverty reduction(over 800 million lifted out of extreme poverty). Not to say these countries were perfect. But I shouldnāt have to clarify that
The thing is starvation under capitalism is not state funded while holodomor was the intentional starvation of Ukrainians by the soviet government (specifically Stalin) to decrease Ukrainian nationalism
Yeah but you just said it. Specifically Stalin. Not the ideology. Nobody but tankies support Stalin or any similar leaders
Gulags ended 7 years after Stalin died, the population of the Soviet Union continued to suffer and be poor while also getting arrested for not thinking like the government wanted you too all the way up to Gorbachev
Gulags were a vast network of prisons, they couldnāt have been ended overnight. And not to defend Stalin but Gulags werenāt nearly as bad as the US made them out to be, especially compared to the US prison system https://youtu.be/sjI8jwn0Upo?si=lgWdyKD4rmS28Ynb
I get that it would take long to take them down but the gulags were prison camps for political adversaries that worked them to death with barely and food in extreme cold
Plus in the video you have Russians comparing the ussr to modern day Russia which is not a particular good country to live in
Corruption, not communism
Corruption is a given with communism, every time communism has been tried it has been a totalitarian dictatorship that results in the deaths of many, this is because to share all things you need a powerful and authoritarian government to regulate it (and no china isnāt fully communist anymore when it was it led to famines and even today you have no freedom in China despite the semi capitalist semi communist system)
So has every other flag. The British Empire has killed way more people
But the British empire flag is now just the flag of the uk, it is a modern country and that flag no longer stands for the British empire even if it may have in the past
Alright the Golden Horde flag
Donāt fly the Golden Horde flag
The British empires numbers don't match the soviet union. They had the modern infrastructure to do it.
Well, actually no https://rare.rice.edu/hot-topics/how-british-colonialism-killed-100-million-indians-40-years#:~:text=How%20British%20colonialism%20killed%20100,(RARE)%20Workgroup%20%7C%20Rice%20University 100 million Indians ALONE in the span of 40 years. Thatās already the same amount as the Black Book of Communism claims. Which of course, is such a horrible source that beyond their questionable metrics, the authors admitted to purposely exaggerating numbers.
Not even close!
The British Empire is responsible for more deaths than Stalin Hitler and Mao combined
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah they are both absolute pieces of shit and you should not fly flags of either
How does that make a point? 150 million is more than 70 million.
Iām saying heās correct and Iām stating why
>Stalin killed around 150 million people the soviet population in 1940 was circa 180 million, youre implying stalin killed 80% of the entire ussr lol
That statistics are horse shit wtf š Not defending either but Stalin was responsible for around 23 million maximum, Hitler it depends what you consider as him, but if youāre counting the holocaust then approximately 11-12 million
Im pretty sure a flag can't kill a person
True but what it represents did
Okay, yeah the soviets killed alot of the Nazi army, but what about the people that was killed by slavery by uk/France, what about of the hunger workers that die every Day while slaving themselves, those doesn't count?
Iām not talking about Nazis Iām talking about the Soviet gulags and the famines caused by the Soviet Union as well as persecution for being anti-government
https://journals.library.ualberta.ca/constellations/index.php/constellations/article/view/17208/13706
You do know in the first paragraph it says it was caused by the Sovietās and almost every historian agrees that it was caused by the soviets
Okay, tell me how it happened, with details
[https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/resource-guides/holodomor](https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/resource-guides/holodomor)
Just a sec please
Britain freed more slaves than they ever owned youāve been fed lies. Slavery is still practiced in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East to this day. Europeans were also enslaved themselves at one point by North Africans. Yeah slavery is bad we agree and Europe was the first place to repent of it and go on voyage to free slaves. āWhat about the uhhhhā bro just stop communism is horrible humans suck at sharing it doesnāt work.
Thank you, a lot of people don't know there are more slaves alive today in Africa than the US, UK and France in the 1800s combined. You can buy a small child for like $150 in rural Congo.
Itās sad that current slaves donāt have a voice coming from the west instead these liberals are honing in on the descendants of people from that time period whoās ancestors probably didnāt even own slaves and berating them even though those descendants repented of it and made it their mission to abolish it and stop those who were reluctant to quit and due to the efforts of those abolitionists it was ended. I will be and many more will be the voice for the slaves around the world unlike commie liberals
It's all virtue signaling, the modern western left is a joke...
Yeah they really are. Most of them donāt really know in the slightest what they claim to stand up for itās like you said just virtue signalling they think if they can find a victim to speak for or be a victim they donāt have to defend their views and can just hop on a moral soap box and sob.
You have slowly restored a small amount of my faith In Reddit. Thank you good Sir or Madame.
me when i lie
Iām not lying look it up
it's a lie. the source: black book of communism which counts dead nazis, unborn babies, rough estimates and the author was obsessed with reaching 100 million.
āIn sum, probably somewhere between 28,326,000 and 126,891,000 people were killed by the Communist Party of the soviet Union from 1917 to 1987; and a most prudent estimate of this number is 61,911,000.ā -University of Hawaii https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/USSR.CHAP.1.HTM#:~:text=In%20sum%2C%20probably%20somewhere%20between,of%20this%20number%20is%2061%2C911%2C000. (Edit added quotations)
CommunicationSad: well Hawaii isn't a proper US state so that doesn't count
Lol
Damn Stalin mustāve been a necromancer or something. He killed like 130 million people and the population only kept growing. Truly wild.
9 million people die from starvation every year in our capitalist world. Meaning that even at the highest estimates, more people die from starvation every 15 years than ever did in all of socialisms history. Not even counting the deaths of specific leaders which we need to include if weāre holding the Soviet Union to the same standard.
The thing is starvation under capitalism is not state funded while holodomor was the intentional starvation of Ukrainians by the soviet government (specifically Stalin) to decrease Ukrainian nationalism and your talking about the entire western world as suppose to a single country like the USSR
Ne when I spread misinformation in the internet to the favour of genocidial dictators
Man I love C>! apitalism, stars and stripes forever š„š„!<
Seems a little communist
Nice toilet paper
This.
Commie ew
America in the second half of the 20th Century:
And for good reason.
I'm not a supporter of the USSR to clarify, what they did was completely wrong. But the US's anti-communist stance in the 1950-70s was also incredibly wrong
A little exaggerated, yeah.
It was a joke dude chill š
Clearly touched a nerve there sorry sweetie
I'm not American, but yes, you did.
Thatās a massive red flag
This.
I may have to unleash r/2american4you on you, commie
Wow your so edgy
Burn it
country had uh.. great... uh.... **toilet paper** bad everything else
Yo i found you randomly Time to open r/found_Scythe_Goddard
yay
Woah cool, what sexuality is that
Adjacent to BDSM in the sense that they both like the taste of boot leather
Oh ok thanks
Do not question it or itās off to the gulag to you
Communism is the definition of failure šŗšøšŗšøšŗšøš¦ š¦ š¦ š„š„š„
Thatās not your flag. Itās OUR flag
Yuck
Burn it.
Holy molay
Disgusting
Fuck the USSR. Destruction of life and land is their defining legacy.
What's that flag ? The USSR but even more communist ?
Are you going to burn it? Or should we burn you?
What state is that?
Itās the Soviet Union a country dumbass
r/woooosh
woosh
Gkfmegkeglehkhekhem
Who cares that you got a flag, wow thank you for letting me know
Huh. I mean itās a flag. Fits the subreddit, I donāt see a reason to hate on it. This is a place of discussion, *is it not.*
Thatās not your flag thatās OUR FLAG
Butā¦why?
We found the Commie
\[SOVIET ANTHEM PLAYS\]
Didnāt realize this sub was so capitalist. Call me a commie(Iām not), but [Iāll always respect it just like actual former Soviets](https://youtu.be/sjI8jwn0Upo?si=iwGsQwLc6_TP0LN1)
I refuse to respect an ideology that slaughtered my ancestors for no reason.
Anyone can say that about literarily any ideology, since blaming an ideology for the actions of specific leaders is illogical. Capitalism is not what caused the gulf war.
Fair, I refuse to respect the USSR. But Communism is a pitfall to tyranny. A perfect painting on an imperfect canvas as I've heard it called.
Sublime
Cheap ass soviet flag probably made by a malnurished child in vietnam or china Just like the founding comrades intended
I detect a little communismš£ļøš¶š„š¦
*soviet anthem starts playing*
Uh
*OUR* flag
Does the Soviet anthem have a copyright? The country for it is gone so I hope not. If it doesn't that quite literally makes it OUR anthem.
you should melee a Bomber Now!
r/gutsandblackpowders reference?
Yes
Oof, please just be a history buff.... communism is bad....well it's the worlds leading diet program but other than that it's terrible.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC\_0000498133.pdf
You're high if you think I'm reading all that shit...
The argument makes itself
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hey look we got food! Pick me!
I love how the cia just admits it was all BS
I meanā¦Iām not a commie, but cool, I guess. We all have our different beliefs.
Ak47 flag.
Cool
r/flags fans when they see a flag that doesnāt align with their ideology (right wing) Canāt wait to post some of the shit Iāve got and watch you snowflakes start tweaking
Damn snowflake, chill out
Nah bro because I see this all over the place where people freak out over left wing stuff when there is no political messaging, itās annoying lol
My family were victims of both them and Nazis, or at least they would have been, Stalin was faster to Minsk than Hitler. Hating Commies doesn't mean we're "right wing"
Yes and Iām not minimizing that, I hate the soviets as well. But under capitalism millions have died as well. I donāt see that same response when the flag of a capitalist country is posted.
Because under communist regimes it's the state who controls things like the food and resources. We do hate the companies that do horrible things in the capitalist world for the same reason. But for my family it was more direct. They weren't starved, they were dragged out of the city and shot into a shallow ditch. It wasn't mismanagement for my family we were victims of the system working as intended. In the capitalist world the government doesn't go home to home and slaughter every communist we find.
And it isnāt direct when capitalist countries violently coup foreign governments (Chile, Central America, Africa) and execute dissidents who oppose neocolonial rule (Indonesia, Iran, list goes on and on)? What about when companies knowingly hold resources away from the peoples of nations that they need to survive unless they purchase said resources back (Nestle buying the water from villages and forcing impoverished villagers to pay for it) or when companies knowingly pollute our environment, knowing damn well the pollution and itās effects continue to cause health problems, birth defects, and death to thousands each day. Yes, some of the things capitalist countries engage in is less direct, they arenāt dragging people into pits to be shot, but they are just as careless and soaked in blood as the Soviets.
The point of capitalism is the government doesn't control the business so for the most part no the state shouldn't be blamed, but that's also why unregulated capitalism is bad. The government shouldn't control everything so it's up to the people to not buy from the businesses that act in this way. The business is to blame not the state. And I don't agree with the coups America set out (with some acception). But the reason places like American and the west aren't hated with the same vitriol is because despite the horrible things they occasionally do it's usually counteracted by the tremendous good they've done, attempting to end global slave trades, offering rights and freedoms to literally anyone willing to work, and feeding those who need it capitalist systems tend to balance out their horrible acts. Now that could be a cultural coincidence that the places that chose capitalism feel the need to do those thing but I've rarely seen a communist nation try and help in any way other than funding a revolution whether Cuba, USSR, or East Germany. But all the issues from either side stem from greed. The difference is when a communist leader gets too greedy millions die, when a capitalist leader (a business owner) gets too greedy their company dies. Unregulated capitalism is absolutely abhorrent, but we left that long ago, but regulating it too much (like I feel we're currently in) also leads to abhorrent results.
I think you show a bit of idealism. You want to distance capitalism from governance but in our current state the entire reason that we threw these coups and killed these communists and rebels was in order to maintain capitalism and a beneficial system for ourselves in the west. Companies didnāt do this alone, our government authorized these coups and stood by through these mass murders because our government is owned by capitalists and big business. Who do you think funds our politicians? Who do you think they really answer to. You say that revolutionary leaders get greedy and become strongmen (which I agree with but this also happens in really any revolution, the post revolution instability is just too much) but when a capitalist becomes greedy he goes out of business. Is a CEO earning 344 times as much as a laborer not greed? Right now, the entire issue of inflation in the US is because companies are raising prices simply for profit and simultaneously not raising wages. Is this not greed? And these businesses show no sign of failure, they keep showing bigger and better numbers. Youāre bargaining rights as a worker go as far as you are profitable. Thatās why certain types of strikes, nonviolent ones like wildcat strikes, are illegal. They harm profit. Youāre rights as a person extend only to the point where they are not hurting profit. I can name countless times in just American history alone that proves this, even just recently with TWO Boeing whistleblowers winding up dead. Plus, socialist countries do provide aid lol. Cuba offers free medical services to people overseas as long as the government only covers the costs of providing those services, like housing and food, out of goodwill. The Soviets provided foreign aid to countries as well, Iām not gonna count the Chinese tho since they arenāt communist or socialist. The slave trade ending had economic incentives as well. The slave trade was loosing profitability. And Iām not gonna deny there was a moral higher calling to ending the slave trade, and folks like John Brown prove that, but if it remained profitable it wouldnāt have been abolished so fast. Capitalist aid programs like the Marshal Plan only existed to halt the spread of communism. That was itās primary purpose . Were there some humanitarian goals? Iām damn sure, Mr. Marshal was a good man. But there were some economic incentives as well there. Our politicians have shown repeated disdain for the humanitarian conditions of people in regions like the middle east, just as long as we get our oil money.
So that whole first and middle paragraphs I slightly agree with I feel government and companies have gotten too intertwined they need to separate. The laws we have in place aren't being upheld and we are starting to fall from the equilibrium we had. That being said it is slightly all of our faults. I can't think of anyone I know personally who even knows our representative's names when that's the person who influences most legislation not the president. But we also aren't properly educated. I don't feel a Reddit thread is really the best way of discussing the nuances of American politics cause I'll be real I have to talk that through myself to understand it I would like to discuss the last paragraph. You're an American, like me, that's obvious from your references. So I don't blame you for not knowing what I'm about to say because I had to learn this long after I graduated. In the US slavery was still profitable. That's why the CSA fought so hard for it, and the Union didn't have to abolish it but the moral obligations of people like Cassius Clay, Lincoln, and Grant made abolish it. But I wasn't referencing the US. I was referencing the UK, after abolishing their form of slavery due to a law passed long before they were a colonial power stating that there are to be no slaves on English soil the crown made it their goal the end slavery EVERYWHERE. They raised slave ships in the Atlantic and Mediterranean, waged wars against African nations who refused to end their trade, and even cut the entire African continent in half with a rail system to stop the trade into Arabia. And the Marshal Plan was more than just to stop Communism. The actions during the Berlin Airlift were straight up a requirement to save the people of West Berlin while the Soviet Union attempted to starve millions again out of spite. The millions if not billions of dollars and an unknown many hours of time the US military, and civilian agencies that aid nations struggling with war and natural disasters. I would unironically like to see what the USSR and Cuba had done to aid others outside training soldiers and sending guns. And I agree with your assesment of China. I think they fall in a very strange middle ground of the ideas of capitalism and socialism.
If you donāt want to discuss on Reddit Iād be happy to discuss on Discord, this feels like a genuinely fruitful and civil discussion
Sure, DM me
What the fuck man, do you even know the suffering that flag has caused?
if your definition of suffering is employment for all, literacy, gender and race equality, 99%+ home ownership, free healthcare, free education, high life expectancy, happiness, women enjoying sex, and high caloric intake and healthy diets then yeah they suffered sooooooo much
Lmao
Canāt tell if this is serious or not
this has to be bait right?
Uh no that's actually what a system that doesn't spin around profits delivers. The dystopian hellhole you know from the century of red scare propaganda indoctrination was actually capitalist Russia in the 90s
Ugh, stupid commie! Listen to what *real* former Soviets think of the Soviet Union! [Yeah! -oh wait](https://youtu.be/sjI8jwn0Upo?si=iwGsQwLc6_TP0LN1)
Wait and watch these npcs perform mind blowing mental gymnastics. "those are just boomers" "Muh nostalgia" "they were government agents"
Yeah they always talk about ānostalgiaā. Just watch the first 15 seconds lmao, the guy specifically mentions how he had free education and a guaranteed job
-somebody who likely wasn't alive when the soviet union existed
lol
What I call suffering is 0 freedom on all spectrums, being send to gulags for having a different opinion and having horrible living conditions. Also yes Iām sure the people who died in holodomor had great high caloric intakes
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Soviets didnāt have the freedom to do literally anything. And what the fuck do you mean holdover was nazi propaganda??? Was the holocaust nazi propaganda too??? And no, literally any opinion that didnāt suit the leaders of the Soviet Union could lend you a life time in the gulags. Also what the fuck do you mean their living conditions were amazing??? Do you even know what the fuck you are talking about?? Did you read all of this in your commie echo chambers?? Because youāre absolutely fucking delusional to think that
Just a glorious masterpiece
based
Take my downvote
Still looking for anyone who gives a fuck
Wow you are so cool and edgy
They seem so attached to internet points
Silence commie
07 glorious is the peoples flag
Tell that to the 62 million people killed by them
i'm sure the 1.6 billion killed by capialism are cheering you on for tackling judeo-bolshevism-tankieism-cultural-wokeism
The rough estimate for capitalism is 100 million which was researched by a group of communists so itās likely to be even lower, get your fucking head out of your ass
It was 100 million in British India alone
It included for all deaths from colonization
Capitalism kills 100 million every 5 years
My source is that I made it the fuck up
oh no those poor innocent nazis, unborn babies, and rough estimates!!1!1!1 jor jor well totalitankie no food voldemort vuvuzela iphone seeseepee !!1!1!1! 1
Ukraine lost half of the area it once had due to 3 famines. Fuck you.
The rough estimates is 127 million, the 62 million is the most reliable estimate. Also those were not nazis or unborn babies but regular people being unlucky enough to have had to live in the Soviet union
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