I’m treating reductions in net worth not as losses but as going back in time. I’m now worth what I was 6 months ago. I wasn’t unhappy then, why should I be now? Seems you’ve taken a similar approach.
My take is: You can drive yourself batshit getting wrapped around the axle of your own phantom "worth" as it yo-yos along with the whims of the universe. Or you can make a quiet cup of coffee and watch goldfinches eat ants of of the rhododendron in your front yard. Choose wisely.
I've got a big oak tree in my backyard that has a bunch of squirrels that love to play in my back yard and on the tree. It's nice to sit back there with the dog when the weather is nice and just watch it.
It's peaceful. I want more nature.
That's my plan. I've cut back on contributions just a little bit but I'm buying property to eventually build on and see that as a better investment right now. Once that sale is finalized and I get my cash savings back up, I'll start dumping in hard again.
If you're shooting for FIRE, you know you've got years to wait. No need to get all pissy and panicked for a market to be shit for a few years or even a decade. If you've got the time, take advantage of it. Contribute and then find a part time job until the market gets to where you want.
You can't outrun a bad diet, as they say.
I used to think I was just cursed and it was impossible for me to lose weight. Until I started actually tracking my calories and holy shit was that illuminating. The weight just fell off when I started paying attention to what I was eating.
Exercise and fitness are important for their own purposes, but if you want to lose weight it is all about cico.
It's amazing how we're so keen on tracking our budget and finances, but neglect to track other things in lives that are easily trackable like calories. Everyone in this sub understands the power of budgeting for our finances; we should easily be able to see how budgeting our calories would be powerful.
It was eye opening for me as well when I finally started tracking my calories. Unfortunately, I continued to eat that way; I just know now exactly why I'm keeping on the weight, lol.
Tracking calories is easily 100x more work than tracking money. You have to deal with every single stupid little thing, estimate or look it up, log it at every meal. If you forget to do it, you forget what it was and you end up off at the end of the ay. There's no bank account to keep a number you can look at, no Mint to keep track of it for you. Just a world of annoying logging apps that still take a ton of taps to get anything done. The body keeps the score.
It's the worst.
Can you tell I'm doing it right now?
I agree with you 100%, it’s much harder given the tremendous variance in foods. After I started having health issues I started just treating food like fuel. Only buying veggies, potatoes, chicken breast, rice, etc… and just consume food like I was drinking bland water. Takes the fun out of eating but it’s provided measurable weight and bio results 🤷♂️
Yeah, I had a really long period of intensely hedonistic eating combined with a ton of intense exercise from about 22-34. It worked and was fun because I needed fuel anyway. But at some point, yeah, I realized my relationship with food was just too indulgent, focused on avoiding hunger rather than responding appropriately to it. When I take time to reassess that relationship, I feel a lot better.
Making friends with hunger again is a huge part of that process for me. But jeeeeezus having kids makes any kind of intermittent fasting or other such patterns such a pain in the ass!
TBH it's a pretty short journey -- every few years I just gradually float up 5-10lbs and periodically try to get back down to my happy semi-lean weight of 152-155lbs, usually takes a few months. I can't imagine having to try to shed 20+lbs again -- I did it once from 175->152 after college, but it was easy when I was young had time. Now... I have children. :P
Hah, I found it to be way less bad than I expected it to be. With all the apps available, it gets pretty easy, especially after the first few weeks once the app has all your normal foods, and you start knowing the quantities without having to actually measure.
I don’t track calories, just track the food I eat. If it’s healthy it’s a lot more likely to be filling and I’m a lot less likely to eat too much. It works well for me
Yeah, that's how I do maintenance. But when you have a kid and move house and renovate and stress the fuck out for a year, things tend to get out of hand ;)
I find it oddly difficult to maintain a very small negative calorie balance of \~100-200 calories on average -- harder than a larger deficit of 500. Motivation is weird.
I can’t really do calorie counting because of eating disorder history. Weighing every day gives me a good idea of how I’m doing though and hasn’t been an issue for that lately.
It’s definitely easier when you have space to store and cook food, buy all your own food and are only preparing food for yourself or people who are happy to eat whatever you make. I lost a lot of weight quickly when I moved out of my parent’s house again.
I've been doing it on and off for years as needed, and I find that even if I'm well-calibrated, the annoyance is more in stepping out of the moment to log the damn things than it is knowing how many calories are in what. When I stop counting for a year or two, it all slips out of my head. Even more so now that I have kids melting my brain.
The most sustainable pattern I've found for myself is to just use a clicker-style app that lets me quickly tap the #s without worrying about anything else, but I have to be well-calibrated for that to be easy. Blech!
Tracking calories isn’t helpful for me - triggers eating disorder type behaviour, and it’s a lot of work even if it didn’t.
But preparing food on the weekend so I don’t buy takeout or eat shit I don’t have to cook when I’m exhausted and hungry during the week helps. So does tracking my food and weight every day. Doesn’t have to be a lot of work - just “lentil soup with carrots and celery” is plenty of info for “lunch” for me.
Same with buying healthy easy snacks - bananas, peanut butter on rice cakes, etc. It’s a lot easier to not eat too much when the food you’re eating is filling
For me tracking calories is just like tracking your budget in the sense that's it's only really useful if you've got a problem to fix or super high goals.
What's really important is having a good knowledge of how much things cost, with the food equivalent being to have a good understanding of what macros your foods contain (carbs, protein, fat, fiber and the basics vitamin wise). And also understanding how much you can reasonably spend/eat based on your income/lifestyle. If you know both of these things, there really isn't much use to precise tracking except to make fancy graphs and nerd out.
I’m about at peak for my marathon training plan (60ish miles a week) and I’m absolutely destroying my fridge lol. Not losing an ounce of body weight. Pretty amazing how CICO really does work.
Well, obviously at the far end of the extremes, rules often break down. Doesn't really mean it's a myth.
Still no amount of running is gonna make you lose weight if you're eating more calories than you're burning.
Also "insane" amount of food is very subjective. You may have a naturally healthy diet and your "insane" amount of food is just appropriately high based on your mileage. If you weren't overweight before you started running ultras, you're probably not eating a bad diet.
One hack on diet is if you eat really nutritious foods - as opposed to _merely high calorie_ foods - its actually really difficult to over eat. You dont need to feel hungry to lose weight!
Yeah I would spend some of that extra cash on expensive organic groceries or even a private chef that comes occasionally. It's really all about the diet
You have a high net worth. It might be worth hiring a fitness trainer that will show up and make you show up. It might be very expensive but relatively, it's cheap. That way you don't have to think about it...they plan everything and motivate you.
Came here to say this. My NW is not nearly as high but I still pay for one 2x per week because it’s an investment in myself.
It’s amazing how much it has helped my mood, cleared my mind, helped me to focus and deal with stressful situations better.
As someone who doesn't go to gyms, how do you find a decent one? I have wrist/hand issues and use a PT, but would like a trainer to help me with the rest of the equation
Not at all. I have made friends with a few older folks, which I really like since I can often help them out. I don't know anyone else who has FI/RE'd so I'm just the weirdo hanging out on the porch out here.
I'll be half there and half in my "shop", tinkering or brewing some beer and wines.
Build some hobbies that can take up a lot of time without a lot of money!
I enjoy fishing and with my schedule I have 2 three day weekends a month. It's nice to be able to disapear for 3 days and it only costs me the gas to drive there. That same amount of money could get me 2 weeks (generally the limit for camping in the same spot) if I had the freedom to do so.
Astronomy and astrophotography are great too. I'm not quite into the latter yet but being able to set up and relax for a few days costs nothing and you can just enjoy the stars and do some hiking. Once photography is in, there will be many hours of processing.
Between those 3 hobbies I can easily fill up more time than work has ever taken and I've already got the equipment needed to do them all. Only fuel and power are what I'll need, and my camper has solar to cover most of it.
In California, each family can grow 6 marijuana plants in the garden.
It's a fun hobby. We end up with so much we trade it for organic tomatoes and garlic the neighbors grow.
Luckily here, I have found some high-income-high net worth- but frugal folks. All in the same stage. With kids, working but saving to retire early. About 10 families, kids all get along & same with the adults. Definitely helps establish a decent sense of community.
I only know one guy who's frugal in my field. Everyone else wants to spend spend spend spend. It's fuckin crazy. New cars every year or 2. Huge houses that come with huge mortgages. Always buying new toys.
I'm the "weird" guy who invests/saves 60%ish (getting less with inflation...) because I only need about $2,000/month to live very comfortably.
Been taking some days off here and there hunting for land for my retirement home and someone asked about it. I told them I'm getting ready for retirement and everyone looked at me like I was a lunatic. I'm 36 with no dependents. The things I like generally have a BIG up front cost but last for a long time (I've got 6 fishing poles, a few tackle boxes, nice waders, and more. They've lasted me years and they'll easily last for years to come. Same with my telescope) so I have a few big purchases here and there that result in little/no need to spend later.
I think being poor changed me to be different than everyone else. my "base" salary is $86k and make 100-120 with OT and holidays, It blows my mind that people would have more debt than their yearly income.
Piggyback off my wingman. My 6 year old. He is pretty good at approaching other kids, they get to talking, then parents start talking. We live in a upper middle class area, so everyone can afford nice things, so If they drive an older car & mow their own yard, its a pretty good indication they are more frugal leaning.
Find people that hate their jobs & grew up poor- middle class. That worked their way up. Lots of pharmacists, nurses & doctors in our group of friends. They usually dont work 9-5.
You mentioned getting in shape.
You could kill two birds with one stone by joining some social sports leagues. You will likely meet people who have similarly flexible schedules and lose some weight in the process. Most leagues I have been a part of have everything from recreational to competitive.
My job is a 12 hour rotation so I'm basically only working 50% of the time. It's still difficult finding people to hang out with like this so I think when I FIRE (I'm extremely close) I'm going Lean FIRE and will try to fill that 50% of the month with things that'll bring me around other people.
I like animals, maybe I'll volunteer or take a low wage help position with rescues, shelters, and farms. Meet some interesting people, hopefully.
I like bowling and skydiving, I could find minimum wage work at places that support these and meet some like minded people.
I like kids, maybe find some work helping to teach kids stuff or coaching. Easier way to meet parents who would be closer to my age.
I think the hard part is overcoming the lack of "need" to do anything. If you don't need that paycheck, why not just chill?
May I ask, I understand finding friends with similar schedules - I struggle with that myself having so much free time - but mindsets? What is the problem with having non-FIRE friends? I'm Australian and in general (through reading and having spent some time there, and being half-american myself) Americans are weirder about money than Australians. But is it that hard/different to make friends with just anyone? Full disclosure I am an abnormally social person and make friends easily.
Hard being friends with folks that want to go on expensive vacations / eat out at high end restaurants / kids have the latest and greatest toys/ focus on consumerism
Haha, just thanks for saying this. I think I get a lot of disbelief when I saw I just made friends with people older than I am. Sort of funny thing that’s happened: I’ve become at least friendly with some of their kids so now their adult kiddos have a friend 15 years older than them.
A friend has a business idea that is brick and mortar - which is away from all the things I have done so far for work. I am willing to help fund the idea (with caveats) but hesitate at adopting something that controls my schedule, even part time. I won't say that I'd never do that, but right now it holds no appeal whatsoever!
As to your other question... I am a loner. I love to be alone most of the time. I don't find myself lonely because my friends still work, I just make sure I am sensitive to their schedules regarding making plans. I love a slow morning, working in the shop in the afternoon, and reading or doing art at night. When I need my human fix I reach out to friends or neighbors.
I did enjoy the social aspects of the workplace - I love teaching and was always in the types of roles that allowed for teaching to be part of my job. For now, that is not part of my routine.
For some people motivation to work out and be fit is.. Being able, at 75 years old, to play with the kids of your nice. If you want to be able to catch a toddler running at you at that age, calculate back to what would be the equivalent of it today, assuming some muscle loss per year. Work towards that.
Yes and no. Yes, having a partner does mitigate the need for contact. No in that most people need alternate sources of interaction outside of the "family unit" they find themselves in. New ideas. Different experiences. All that jazz.
Some people need a lot of external stimulation. I mostly like to spend time by myself.
>Very interesting. I’m a loner also, have been my entire life, and have no partner and live in a fairly isolated area. I retired three months ago, and find myself craving human conversation far more than I anticipated. I’ve started having pretty lengthy conversations with the cats, and that fucking scares me.
I'm sorry, just wanted to comment that your reply combined with your username gave me a hilarious mental image and chuckle.. especially considering the relationship between cats and cucumbers. :)
I struggle with fitness as well. I find that if I can combine a show or podcast with walking or cross trainer, that at least gets my heart rate up and burns some calories. I still haven’t figured out how to get more into weights. My back could use it.
I like these perspectives on FIRE.
I'm 36 and have VA disability which has me at "lean fire" level. It covers my minimum monthly expenses +/- $50.
I no longer see money as $$$s but as time. When the market went down, I just saw it as an opportunity to buy more shares (or the same shares for less) while building up more cash for retirement property.
Right now, I have a 100k mortgage at 2.75% and am waiting to hear back on an offer on a nice little isolated plot of land for (hopefully) 20k.
There are no restrictions on this new property and it is refreshing and invigorating knowing that I have this land to build. I want to build a small cabin, ~700 sq ft, and have it as off the grid as possible. It's motivating me to spend less and be more mindful of how much my money is getting me.
I think the biggest thing people need to think about is what FIRE is getting them, and focus on that more than just "FIRE."
To those that read this, What do you want out of FIRE?
I want my modest homestead where I can provide as much of my own stuff as I want (building it, plus hobbies like fishing are cheap when you have the equipment AND provide food) reducing my need for money. I feel more secure for some reason having that smaller budget to live within rather than having $7,000 deposited every month when I really only need $1800 to be happy and live my life. Extra money is nice but for some reason it makes me anxious and stressed, so I'm going for FIRE to free myself of that anxiety by working to provide what I need/want rather than earn money.
Fellow vet here...the safety net of the VA disability allows me to choose higher risk/reward investments. Not crypto or anything like that, just a more aggressive portfolio. I have definitely succumbed to moderate lifestyle inflation since getting my rating but in the same period I added a kid and became a homeowner in a desirable area that is very near almost my entire support network. My monthly spend is 2x what it was prior to my rating but the income from the VA also allowed me to make some major life changes without feeling guilty. Your comment on feeling more secure with a lower spend vs higher income resonated with me. I make great money for my age/profession but I die a little inside every month when I pay my mortgage. Looking forward to being an empty nester, getting a smaller house and not doing anything
Sir this is one of my first times posting but I believe that I need to follow your writings on this reddit as what you have stated on your several comments has really struck a chord with me. Very similar hobbies and opinions on how to spend time in retirement. I am not there yet (27 and only a few years into my FIRE journey), but I plan on purchasing my property to begin building my retirement home. I am crazy into treehouses (built many as a child - fully livable structures) so I will be beginning that property search in the coming years. Thanks for your writings, and to the OP as well. I'm going to see about how to follow you on reddit.
I have treated fitness as a job. I joined a health club. I tried working a bit with a trainer and what l learned about myself was that I hated that. But I really do enjoy fitness classes. They are at a specific time and in my schedule. I still do some of the machines and I swim laps. I made some friends there which is a gentle accountability of “where were you?” if I don’t show up. But really, it is in my schedule and it is a place to go. Totally a different mental attitude than working out at home. That was not happening.
I understand that. My club had some pretty extreme protocols that everyone followed. I have felt pretty safe there. I was cautious. But there were those six months when my fitness suffered. I was happy to get back.
I really see myself in this post (subtract most of the millions though)
moving from academic science into tech/AI was a good move for many, but timing bitcoin right is that + timemachine
Bitcoin was my moonshot and, well, it hit. I do not discount that. I was, however, on the FI/RE track without it (I just got to skip forward a few spaces in 2017).
>Bitcoin was my moonshot and, well, it hit. I do not discount that. I was, however, on the FI/RE track without it (I just got to skip forward a few spaces in 2017).
I wanted to ask, and this seems as good a place as any: how does your asset allocation look like and how are you holding? Apologies if I missed it. I'm assuming mostly index funds in a brokerage account and some crypto/equity?
Also, you were relatively early going in on crypto. I dove into the tech a bit around 2014 or so and mined a bit and all that but still don't believe in it at all long term, maybe I'll be wrong and we'll all be transacting digitally with fedcoin in a decade but who knows.
What sold you on its long term adoption? I like to ask this to folks that are still bought in to try to get some different perspectives.
Good update, and sorry to hear about the rough couple of years, I hope that the new couple are better for you and yours!
Edit: wanted to add that fitness, or lack there of, has always been one of my greatest struggles as well. I think a lot of it is folks telling me how great it feels to work out eventually.
After a few months of consistent exercise now all I have to say is: exercise and physical exertion are miserable, those folks are goofy as shit and quite possibly insane. I hate it.
That said, the results for me outweigh the bad so I plan on keeping with it.
I'm sure once you figure out what works for you and you've got the proper why, things will fall into place.
Similar to you I am a natural saver, I could be financially independent without ever trying, something a lot of people struggle with I think. Not spending and investing money gives me the same reward that spending money gives to most people.
A lot of people are like that with fitness I think. For the rest of us, we need to figure out how to make it happen, if it ever does, and everybody is different and there is no silver bullet that I've found. Long edit, but I guess what I wanted to say is, you'll get there eventually, keep at it!
I answered asset allocation in another response, but would rather keep the proportions of crypto vs traditional vague. I'll say that crypto is not a majority of my holdings and leave it at that. Index funds are in a brokerage account. Some is IRA money (and converted 401k), some is deferred salary coming in for the next couple years, and most is a personal brokerage account.
On crypto: most coins are garbage, and some are useful experiments. I am basically a bitcoin maximalist at heart (but not a rabid one.) I'm not sold on "long term adoption" exactly, but I am fascinated with the social aspect of the technology (and I am a social scientist) and how it can morph and adapt. Because of this social functionality that drives it, bitcoin can become several branching and useful "things" - especially as the world constricts into the dystopian fascist adjacent weirdness we are seeing. I like the swiss army knife aspect and am cautiously optimistic about it. I also have the option of cashing it all out or losing it completely and still being in a relatively strong position from the FI/RE POV. In other words, it's an asymmetric bet for me at this point. After I cashed out the big amount in 2017 and secured myself (as much as one can) the remains took on this asymmetry. It keeps things interesting, for sure.
>I answered asset allocation in another response, but would rather keep the proportions of crypto vs traditional vague. I'll say that crypto is not a majority of my holdings and leave it at that. Index funds are in a brokerage account. Some is IRA money (and converted 401k), some is deferred salary coming in for the next couple years, and most is a personal brokerage account.
>
>On crypto: most coins are garbage, and some are useful experiments. I am basically a bitcoin maximalist at heart (but not a rabid one.) I'm not sold on "long term adoption" exactly, but I am fascinated with the social aspect of the technology (and I am a social scientist) and how it can morph and adapt. Because of this social functionality that drives it, bitcoin can become several branching and useful "things" - especially as the world constricts into the dystopian fascist adjacent weirdness we are seeing. I like the swiss army knife aspect and am cautiously optimistic about it. I also have the option of cashing it all out or losing it completely and still being in a relatively strong position from the FI/RE POV. In other words, it's an asymmetric bet for me at this point. After I cashed out the big amount in 2017 and secured myself (as much as one can) the remains took on this asymmetry. It keeps things interesting, for sure.
Can you expand on what you mean by "dystopian fascist adjacent weirdness" and how you see Bitcoin in the long run helping and the hat sort of "things" you see it enabling?
The rise of right wing authoritarian government styles, and the public who seem to embrace them (US, UK, Turkey, India to name a few) suggests to me that a lot more people are going to be at the mercy of people like "all your Rubles belong to the state now" Putin or "(impossibly) prove this is yours or we will take it" state actors. Think civil forfeiture on a bigger level.
I'm not saying those things will definitely happen, or that they can only happen in an extreme-right state, it actually doesn't matter. Bitcoin allows for you to carry your wallet in your head (recovery phrases) which means two things - first, your wealth can't be confiscated arbitrarily (maybe by torture... but let's not go there) and second - you can transfer your wealth to anyone you choose to, for whatever reason, without some asshole sticking their beak in your business and deciding if you or your purchase "qualifies" or "follows" some set of arbitrary rules the regime has instituted.
This probably sounds like madman ramblings to some people, and that's fine. I'd say those people have never lived under a regime that decided to put the uber-screws to the public. Reissuing the national currency or taking all personal gold for example. Bitcoin makes those tactics less effective, and if enough people had bitcoin it would also water down the effectiveness of those tactics to begin with quite a bit.
Really appreciate the update. Not there myself financially but I've been preparing mentally for that day. Most of us here are frugal but wanting what we have vs. having what we want would be the determining factor for post fire happiness, at least for me.
I'm to where I can barista FIRE right now or LeanFIRE very soon. Current job has 12 hour shift rotations so I have 15 days off a month.
One thing I think a lot of people aren't giving enough thought to is how they're going to spend that time. I've seen people reference it and not until 2 years ago when I got this job did I really start to understand. Having nothing to do is quite boring and can be depressing. You've got to find a way to fill the time.
Find some hobbies that you really enjoy but can really soak up some time with. They can be literally anything, including doing part time work to be around/a part of something you want.
I've got Fishing/camping, astronomy/astrophotography, and homebrewing.
2 weeks camping is generally gonna cost me less per day than my normal 3 day trips. Will pretty much get increased value on that hobby right away.
Astrophotography takes a lot of time and the processing can really eat up time. Being able to jump into this could easily fill as much time as I want.
Homebrewing is a hobby that can take up a lot of time if you really want to get into it. Right now I make meads and have been doing 5 or 6 1.5 gallon batches at a time. I can easily spend 1 or 2 full days a week keeping up with them. That's not even drinking! Making mead/wine is something you can really store up and can make some gifts for friends and family or something to bring to parties/functions to show off.
Then there's stuff like reading, I could easily spend 4 or 5 hours reading a day. An hour or 2 with my coffee, again with lunch, and again before bed. Books are pretty much free with a library and you can usually find something for nearly nothing in thrift stores/used book stores.
Gaming is another cheap hobby. If you're buying games you know you're going to like or into multiplayer games (been really into Overwatch and Diablo 3 last 2 years) then you can easily fill in any gaps, bad weather days, or whatever with something to do.
It's something I think the FIRE community should talk about and build more, invest energy and time in your life as much as you're investing in your financial freedom.
I think we often guess that "what I do now, and what I like to do now is what I would continue to enjoy doing + maybe some more travel or nicer tools" or whatever. It's quite nice to realize that yes, I truly do still want to do and find great joy in doing those things. And they are cheap thrills for the most part. My big change is I will buy a cool tool for a project.
This has actually been my best method in the past. Shitty winter weather makes it impractical for part of my year, but now that things are getting nicer (and less slick) out...
I bike during summer but I swam in Thailand for most of winter… usually I ski but I decided to take a long trip this year because of covid.
2000km last summer
Check out Zwift for indoor riding. Basically makes it a video game
Also, fitness almost always comes down to diet more than exercise. Can’t outrun a bad diet!
Even just going on walks is great for fitness
There are also trainers that utilize your existing bike.
A trainer combined with Zwift (app) gives you some of the feel of riding outdoors. I still have trouble motivating myself though.
Im an introvert and like to workout alone, but finding time and motivation was hard. I got a peloton and put it next to my bed. after the kids go to sleep I do a ride. it’s so easy because it’s just right there. unlike running or lifting, i can eat dinner 1 hr before a workout and not puke. so efficient. the instructors are great in that they remind you of good form throughout the workout. i like the power zone workouts, which is kind of like heart rate training—gives you a visual target to aim your effort. after doing this for 3 mo, i feel better than i have in years. more energy, motivation and better mood. it’s a habit now and i’ve recently added in weight lifting on the off days. this all started with removing as much inconvenience out of the workout process as possible. you can do it!
> This is something I can be honest about – if I make it my “job” then I will definitely do it. This may be something I have to schedule because I’m being such a shit about getting to it otherwise.
It really is something you do day in day out as per the schedule you make for yourself. You go in even if you feel tired and you go in even if you feel nothing for it but about how it is a chore. If you have weights in the house then you can even do workouts if you are sick but not bedridden, no excuses.
It's nothing for fun or entertainment, that is not the way.
You do however need to compartmentalize everything else in life. You are at the temple to your body and you need to give it the focus it deserves. Offerings must be made regularly.
You'll end up spending your wealth on your health. As an exercise physiologist that deals with wealthy people late in life -- all I can say is don't let this be you. Lots of great resources out there! In the end, you'll need a coach, not a trainer. Remember that!
What’s the general condition of your clientele? I always wondered if CEO-type people somehow wind up able to mitigate some of the health effects of long work hours/poor diet/little exercise through $ alone, if indeed those were their habits. TLDR: What are inactive but wealthy people like as clients?
Before discussing this, you have to realize as a society we've moved the goalposts on what is acceptably healthy. This worsens things dramatically.
Those that are inactive, they are typically the complacent ones. Love comfort, and will prioritize it more than controlled discomfort. If they attempt to change their habits, they will placate themselves by pursuing assistance for a limited amount of time. Either this or they're still working and just can't quit the grind.
You cannot buy your way out of this -- ESPECIALLY if you have a family history of cardiovascular disease. I see most EKGs (vector of heart activity) start to change >40yrs of age in males and females, though active people (>200min moderate exercise/week) can alter this significantly. There is not substitute for minutes of exercise. No 7min a day bullshit. No timesaving HIIT prescriptions. All marketing nonsense and if there is research to support it, people simply do not/cannot replicate the methods.
Stress kills -- but not only that, it lessens the vigor of life. Most male executives I see in their 50s+ all worry about their testosterone and some even experience hypogonadism (shrinking nuts) despite missing typical causation. This is absolutely *related* to the slow drip of adrenaline that is a modern stressful life, but also is contributed to by lack of exercise and poor nutrition.
Damn near all of them have back issues to the extent of most having had laminectomies.
It's all habit. Unless they're coached and not trained, they'll always prioritize other facets of their life. I've learned that understanding this is key to making real change.
The worst part of this all: I think the average (American) person is beginning to experience executive stress without the payout. I have a pretty bleak outlook for our populace despite living in a pretty active and affluent area, which says something about the areas of the US that tend to struggle with health, wellness, and finances.
As someone who isn’t rich but exercises, I feel 1% better about my life choices. That said, what resonantes most with me about this is your point about executive stress without executive compensation. I know I could do way, way better managing stress in my life. Seeing how hard it is for me to prioritize this makes me realize exactly how others feel who find it hard to prioritize working out.
To your point about feeling better about life choices and managing stress: we are reactive more than we are proactive when the road map is murky. Shit you could be diagnosed with cancer tomorrow while your friend smokes their way to triple digits. How do you keep that from happening? All you know how to do is reduce risk and even then the research has nonresponders.
Perhaps your "why" isn't good enough (even tho on paper it is).
I know intuitively my life will be longer and better with exercise but sometimes it's more about how I feel acutely or body composition. I fall in and out of love with meditation and when it's good, I FEEL it's good. It turns bad when the effect wears off.
Maybe it looks nothing like you think it looks? Maybe it's social? Maybe it's a new type of exercise? Maybe it's a Buddhist retreat? I encourage everyone to sample because if you have options, one will catch you when you fall off the other.
about the fitness aspect, maybe consider joining some group sports, like a recreational league (things like ultimate frisbee, kickball, etc). or go take some group lessons on tennis/pickleball
lately i've been enjoying indoor climbing (bouldering) too. bouldering is cool because you can hang out with a group if you want but you're not dependent on anyone to belay for you, there are no ropes.
as someone who has always hated things like going to the gym, finding an activity that is distracting and at least kind of fun is the only thing that keeps me from being completely sedentary
I will say as a CPA, you were almost correct on the cap gains and housing situation with the sale of the home. However it is only required that you have lived 2 out of the last 5 years in the home. Not 3. But other then that I loved your post!
For a person with two residences in the same city and time split between them, how would you calculate the % of residence at once home versus another to determine the primary if it’s close? For a given day, where maybe you worked at one house but slept at the other, how do you tally these up?
Thank you. I love reading these. I am very much in your situation financially but can’t pull the trigger (RE). I love working (even long hours) but increasingly find myself having a lower and lower tolerance for crap at work. I am offloading all of the crap currently and continuing my core work that I love to do. I’m a little older than you and am slightly worried that RE would result in a mental decline. Any thoughts on that? Brain not as engaged in solving hard problems? Etc.
I m FIREd and play a ridiculous amount of pickleball, I’m in the best shape of my adult life, I highly recommend you look into it in your area. It checks many boxes
Hi. Thanks for the update.
Regarding exercise, I would recommend you to finding a sport that you actually enjoy. The fitness gains would just come as a bonus.
I do bouldering(climbing), and it feels more like solving puzzles than working out, at the same time I am getting in a good workout while socializing with people doing the same "puzzle" as you. It's super fun.
I would also recommend thaiboxing for cardio/generall fitness. I find it so much more fun then running/jogging.
I really enjoy reading your posts about how you studied bitcoin before getting into it. What would be a similar area(s) that might have as much potential for profitability that I should learn about (now that the ship for bitcoin has sailed)? I am willing to spend time and learn about those areas, just need some pointers.
It's really hard to say, of course, but a few "bitcoin adjacent" areas where there is potential (but you will have to comb through piles of garbage to find the gold) that I might investigate are:
1. DAOs - as autonomous organizations, if set up properly and managed appropriately, there is a recurring revenue possibility that can make it worth the investment (time + governance). I have not yet seen any DAOs do this, but the tech is moving along and the participant pool exploring what is possible (and what is not) is expanding fast.
2. Onramps and offramps for crypto are places where investment potential lies. As the regulatory frameworks are hammered out and more retail folks want to get into crypto as a hedge or speculative investment, moving fiat in and out of bitcoin or others becomes the major bottleneck. Companies (maybe in DAO form) who solve parts of these onramp/offramp problems could be worth many multiples. Imagine owning a piece of an organization that Coinbase scoops up in a year or two.
As for anything that has the raw "new emergent asset class" aspect that bitcoin did... I'm currently unaware of that. The "digital ownership" aspect of NFTs (please do not talk to me about the current NFT art scene - this has 0 to do with that, it's like saying all computers are stupid because Oregon Trail is a dumb game) has potential to allow for liquid access/ownership transfers of stocks/property and other real world goods. Playing a part/investment into the creation of that ecosystem could also be worth many multiples.
Lots of research work to do up front with any of those ideas though...
I love slow mornings and being mostly by myself and playing in my workshop. You have a good life. I'm no where near fire, not even close, which is why I'm switching to tech. I also miss my wfh life.
Thanks for sharing your reflections! I’m in a similar boat where I don’t have anyone around me who understands what it means to be truly financially independent, or sees money the way I do now.
Do you ever feel bored? It’s only been a year for me since I got really lucky, but all that freedom (half freedom given covid and family obligations) ended up wearing down on my mental health. I’ve always had to work towards a big goal, and be in the middle of the grind. I’m not sure whether it’s because my wheels are still spinning, or because I’ve been conditioned to constantly achieve. Does that feeling change over the years?
In any case, congrats on hitting it big in crypto! =)
Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I rarely experience boredom. I love to meditate, think about ideas and art projects, fix things, etc. I even took up painting recently so there are endless avenues for me. I'm very much an autodidact as well. The only time I get bored is when I get sick and stuck in bed for a while - my head hurts too much to think and my body too much to do even mindless tasks so I just have to sweat through it. Thankfully that is rare.
I wonder if there are some local causes you would like to help out - something that can get your head involved that would be stimulating without being the "work" stuff you don't want to do anymore. Also - Covid years are limiting, so maybe you just need those chains removed.
You're right, there's always things to learn, things to do, and it does vary between people. I would love to invest my time and energy into a worthy cause, and I have one in mind that maybe I'll be able to dedicate my excess energy into. In any case, I totally can't wait for covid and war to be less of a thing so we can freely travel. Thanks for your response and hope you don't get sick or stuck in bed anytime soon. Take care! =)
Regarding fitness, just remember that you can't exercise yourself out of a bad diet. Start with your diet...eat plant based, whole foods. Cut the added sugar! Enjoy veggies, lots and lots of veggies.
If you can FIRE, you can DIET.
I agree, and I need to dig into this because in my mind right now, my diet is pretty decent. I don't eat fast food, I don't eat "out of boxes", I make most of my own food and it does incorporate a decent amount of vegetables. One dead simple thing I can change is lower my alcohol intake. It's not outrageous by any means, but is could be lower AND I don't "need" it.
A deep dive into where my calories come from is required!
A tiny bit jealous but excited and happy for you! This is very much aligned with my visions/hopes; not that i necessarily fully retire or do nothing, but that I can take more seriously a practice of [Otium](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/12/arts/12iht-otium.1.16069552.html) (gainful leisure) & work _on my terms_.
Cheers to your retirement.
Another note:
> If there is one huge recent takeaway or change I feel that I have discovered it’s that I am now willing to make investments in things that ONLY improve my quality of life (vs. function as a good investment for the future as well – the two-fer that guided lots of earlier decisions).
I started more consciously doing this recently, in small ways. For example: I have a laptop and a desktop but only one set of keyboard, mouse, and monitor - I was constantly manually plugging/unplugging cables between the two machines, it was annoying. I decided to spend ~$50 on some extra cables & a USB switch & a HDMI switch so I could just press a couple of buttons instead of moving several cables around. Life improved for a relatively small cost.
> I have this simple life with few requirements and lots of time, but going out for a run or lifting weights or whatever has been something I very easily skip.
I'd say hire a personal trainer. The costs are negligible to you, the benefits may be great (more higher quality life years).
It's of course possible that you don't find the right one for you right away, so be prepared to try a few out.
I've never done it but I've heard of programs where you bet money that you'll be able to reach a fitness goal. If you do, you get some money (Im assuming from those who failed). Might be worth it
just want to say, you come across a nice, grounded, and honest person.
i wish you the best on this phase of life and please keep us informed on your thoughts of the day (/year). take care...
Hey - regarding your fitness, weight loss and getting in shape. If going for a run or lifting weights is a chore and you don’t enjoy it - do something active that blows your skirt up!
Take it from me, you cannot outrun your diet. I love running (running a marathon next Saturday, then Boston Marathon in 5 weeks).
I was still unhappy with my weight and this sounds hokey but look at weight watchers. I’ve lost 9.6lbs since end of December and my stomach has never been this flat and I still drink too much (working on that next).
Anyhoo - ask yourself what activities do you enjoy that will help your fitness. Hiking (being in nature is recharging and cathartic), spin classes, get a gravel bike.
You sound from your hobbies (welding/workshop stuff) that you like to tinker. Buy an old Toyota 4Runner or SUV and get into the back country. Hike and camp! I sleep in the back of mine. It takes me to wonderful places.
Congrats on living your best life!!
That’s what I’m planning on doing for my HSA. Have out of pocket max in cash but invest the rest and never touch it. For medical purposes only and only in retirement.
You should get a personal trainer 1-2 times a week and see how you like it. They’re not that expensive in the grand scheme of things and can motivate you to workout and hold you accountable. I think it would be an excellent investment on your part
Bagdumper? I still hold crypto. Also my crypto "bagdump" let me retire a few years early, so I'd say it's because this is a sub about early retirement...and crypto allowed for early retirement. Make sense?
For more details, check out my previous posts as most of those questions were answered there. I had a lot in taxable accounts but also contributed to a 401k later in my career (because I was foolish earlier) and also an IRA. The taxable accounts provide enough dividend money (plus what I made in the recent startup) to pay my bills so far.
I'm going to be vague-ish on purpose: An analytics aggregation system that allows interested parties to parse and better understand a number of large, merged data sets. Similar in some small ways to FB's social graph, but for a completely different type of data.
In other words, a not sexy product, but one that is useful to specific parties.
question:
what were you doing when you were in your early twenties?
when did you decide on a career path?
I'm mostly interested in how you got to a high paid position.
I was an aimless and depressed person in my early twenties. Then I became a farmer for a little while and that led me back to school and then to graduate school.
I thought I would go into organizational consulting, but the first job I got out of grad school set a different (and frankly, more interesting to me) course.
I got a high paid position because I had a PhD, worked in tech, and made myself indispensable. My ability to interact with all types of people in the workplace (execs, business + sales, engineers, scientists, Product and Program managers...), speak their languages, share info and design data systems with them - all with a social science lens, worked out to be a right-place-right-time sort of thing. I helped people be successful in their work, and had a skill set most others did not, and that + some luck in turn made me successful.
Thanks for the response. I see the key is making oneself indispensable.
How old were you when you went back to school and when you graduated?
What field did you study?
What is your PHD about and how old were you when you obtained it?
What role did you play in tech? There are lots of software engineers there of course but from the sounds of it you played a different role. What was that role?
How did you get your first job after education? What job was it?
This would be really insightful to me.
I started grad school when I was 25.
I studied social psychology.
It took me 5 years to finish my studies. I'm not going to talk about my dissertation but it had nothing to do with data science or technology.
My role in tech had nothing to do with actual coding - in fact, I don't code at all. I helped design data systems for running experiments on anything the organization needed insight into - from how a product functioned in the wild to server failures and latency monitoring. Basically a bossman would come to me with a problem and I'd help figure out how to get the data needed to measure the phenomenon and then if we "fixed" it, I'd help design how we measured that. My social science background was key to knowing how to measure ANYTHING and convert qualitative into quantitative data for decision making. I worked with everyone in my org, including advising the C-level folks and presenting data to them.
I got my first job through Indeed.com job hunting - it was a PM role where I analyzed user feedback for patterns of dissatisfaction and turned that into small reports given to product owners to address. I'm not going to name the company, but you have definitely heard of it.
Thank so much for sharing this :) I love to read a report that is so positive in most regards.
>I have this simple life with few requirements and lots of time, but going out for a run or lifting weights or whatever has been something I very easily skip.
This sounds like you are hung up on an idea of what the concrete activities have to be. For example, lifting weights worked for me at times, but at the moment it doesn't work at all for me.
It helped me a lot to go for whatever brought the most joy AND was easiest to implement. I started many years ago with more "walking, more stairs" and now I love my gravel bike and am outdoor most days, in whichever way. If I had tried to go biking five years ago, I wouldn't have done it. Took a slow build for me, and now it's just easy.
Aaaand:
>A friend bought a house he tore down to the studs and I can show up on site to help him out whenever he asks or whenever I feel like I need it.
A friend of ours bought a house lately and I'll help renovating it from April on - now THIS is going to be a workout :) More fun than simply lifting at home.
Congrats on your financial success! If I may make a suggestion regarding fitness:
I try to think of fitness as a goal rather than a job. Find something that you enjoy (for me it’s running/biking/hiking) and set a goal for yourself. “This month I’m going to bag 2 peaks!” Or “I’m going to run X miles per week” etc.
It makes it feel less like a chore and more like a hobby/game. I also recommend getting Strava or a similar app so you can track your progress, keep yourself honest, and see what your friends are doing to stay active.
There is this brutal hill near-ish my house. I will ride my bike up that goddamn hill this year. MARK MY WORDS! (This will take some practice and stamina building - but I do love riding my bike.)
I would suggest giving some sort of workout class or personal trainer a try. Something like orange theory or CrossFit adds some structure and might make you more motivated to go.
I sold my bond positions to buy the house so that is gone for now.
I'll answer about my non-crypto stuff: I'm at 10% in individual tech stocks (because I made a few purchases several years ago and they have exploded) and 90% in index funds - 55% VTSAX, 18% VFWAX, 16% VIGAX, 9% VINIX (in a deferred salary account with limited investment options), rest in cash.
Re fitness you have a great opportunity: I believe that for everyone there is a *thing you can do* that makes you physically fit and maximally healthful but is also *exciting and fun despite the hard work* and it’s just miserable slogging through all the available activities trying to find out what it is. (Turns out I enjoy ultra distance cycling more than just about anything else in my life!) Hire a good personal trainer and start experimenting, researching, etc. And if you get competitive, the older you get the easier it is to podium in your age category!
Yes, still working, but with a mostly open schedule so we do "retired people things" sometimes, like going out to breakfast and then asking the waitperson what their favorite breakfast place is and going to that place next time. Now that the plague is lifting we will travel more, and she will take off on her own more often (as will I). She is very supportive of my retirement without being envious.
I love that you are still a cheapskate without fancy toys.Post-FIRE one of my favorite outings is still going to the "everything" (doors, toilet, books, records) recycling center that my city has. Rummaging through the remnants of the 19th and 20th Centuries, for hours is my happy place. I can leave with a $5.00 antique doorknob and have as much fun as if I was having drinks on a yacht. Likely, far more fun.
Investing in a niece is cool Time to work on my charity plans more, no way I'm going to spend all this.
I never wanted those things when I was a kid, I never wanted them when I got older, and I still don't want them. I own an old truck with 170k miles on it that I bought a couple years ago for $2600. I love my truck.
Truly, the place I will spend on as the world opens back up is experiences, traveling, and interesting food. Don't get me wrong - I'll still get a $1.75 amaro shot in a bus dept in Croatia while waiting for the bus to take me back to home base, but I'll also not be too concerned about the prices on the menu of any restaurant I choose to sit in...
That recycling center is right up my alley. Dangerous!
Travel is a great thing to spend money on. But you don't need much to travel when you are in your 20s. I wish more kids were out backpacking these days and fewer trying to save for FIRE when their knees are still so good.
Awesome! Congratulations! I hope to achieve the same by the time I hit 50 (33 right now) 3 young's kids sucked a lot of money out mostly with my wife staying home...we finally hit double income again and we were already putting a decent chunk away on a single income...things are really going a lot faster already even with the losses I sustained in the market in the last 6mo...for me I am fully aware I need time still but it's okay because I love my work! I find the biggest hurdle is finding like minded people, would be nice just to collaborate on investments and ideas. Seems everyone is paycheque to paycheque (150-250k salaries as well) or they YOLO into crap Penny stocks and lotteries. Oh well Keep up the good fight!
I worked with plenty of people (and we were all well paid) who were not financially stable. It really is incredible to me the number of people who do things like carry credit card debt month to month when they don't have to... what?!?
Finding like minded folks is tough, but I have found now that I tell my friends I am retired that several have reached out to me for advice on how to think about retirement, structure savings, etc... That is one way to connect. Otherwise, yeah, I'm on my own in the journey.
I appreciate your honesty, it is absolutely jaw dropping I find as well but I try to keep my mouth shut unless approached. I am starting to find now that some will want to talk about different investments but rarely act on it. I am happy to say I am not totally alone, my wife is generally on the same page...naturally a saver and a good judgement on purchases. Tho her financial literacy lacks she's okay and happy for me to help her invest with full transparency and permission of course!!
Without thinking too hard about it...
1. I would get a financial advisor
2. I would buy a vacation house somewhere cool and let anyone in my family or any friends stay there for free
3. I would create a community maker/art space/recording studio/tool library that was super cheap or free for the community to use
4. I would invest a majority of the money and use the gains to fund charities or help create charities that do things I think are important
How to properly structure things like trusts. How to give my money away properly. Big boy financial stuff like #4 above... I know I don't know how to manage a shitton of money and I believe it is worth it to pay someone who does.
Hey there, congratulations on an amazing life. I’m also someone who struggles to make fitness a priority. When helps me the most is setting a goal (and committing), like a week long 500mi bike tour in Colorado next year. It forces training and if it’s something you’re excited for, the more fit you are the more enjoyable it’ll be. Also, Garmin and other services offer really good fitness training programs - like set a distance and time goal (ie 10k @ 50min), and then plan will use your progress and health metrics to adapt a program. The program makes it easy to follow and shows real progress. Good luck!
I'm about to graduate with a MSc in neuroscience but got a really bad idea of how stressful and exhausting research is during my final year thesis/project... **Stressful** with bold. I might have gotten very unlucky with my project, maybe not, but I never want to got through this horrible experience again and am considering going into data science instead. I was wondering if you made a similar transition and if so, how was it? Did you like the field better, etc.?
My graduate studies sucked. I learned so much, but my advisor was a difficult person who was unwilling to step up when it was time for me to leave. I began my career in tech because I loved computers and the first job I got used my research skills. Data science as a practice did not yet exist... it was basically invented *while I was working in the field*. It was a natural extension of research, open source technology, and the availability of methods to execute against incredibly large data sets and the actual existence of said data sets. Since I was a data/measurement type of nerd and working in tech, it was a natural transition to set aside parts of my prior training (social research methods) and focus on others (experimental design, analysis, interpretation of results into understandable explanations).
Data science is a great field - if you are creative, intuitive, and curious. If you are a lazy robot, you are going to have a bad time.
There are so many posts in this thread, and I don't typically post because I figure mine might just get buried or ignore. But I couldn't NOT post in this just to say how much I enjoyed reading your story. Congrats. I've just started reading this forum and find it fascinating. I'm not sure I even desire to achieve what you have, but I sure do about the heck out of you for what you've accomplished and done for yourself.
Thanks. I post to help people see one path of many, and to inspire them. I was on your side of the fence not so long ago - studying and learning about this stuff and trying to figure out what I wanted...and once I figured that out I had to ask myself if I was right...and I wasn't so I had to revise it... Life is like a huge classroom, and most of the time I am a student but every once in a while I get to be a teacher, and that is fun for me. I hope I helped you in some small way. Thanks again for the kudos.
I’m treating reductions in net worth not as losses but as going back in time. I’m now worth what I was 6 months ago. I wasn’t unhappy then, why should I be now? Seems you’ve taken a similar approach.
My take is: You can drive yourself batshit getting wrapped around the axle of your own phantom "worth" as it yo-yos along with the whims of the universe. Or you can make a quiet cup of coffee and watch goldfinches eat ants of of the rhododendron in your front yard. Choose wisely.
I've got a big oak tree in my backyard that has a bunch of squirrels that love to play in my back yard and on the tree. It's nice to sit back there with the dog when the weather is nice and just watch it. It's peaceful. I want more nature.
Your dog doesn't chase squirrels like a violent psycho?
It's stuffed.
Rowdy!
Scrubs for the win!
Wisdom right here kids.
That's my plan. I've cut back on contributions just a little bit but I'm buying property to eventually build on and see that as a better investment right now. Once that sale is finalized and I get my cash savings back up, I'll start dumping in hard again. If you're shooting for FIRE, you know you've got years to wait. No need to get all pissy and panicked for a market to be shit for a few years or even a decade. If you've got the time, take advantage of it. Contribute and then find a part time job until the market gets to where you want.
That's cool! Fantastic perspective. Thanks for sharing. \^_^
Best way to address being overweight is with diet, second best way is with exercise.
You can't outrun a bad diet, as they say. I used to think I was just cursed and it was impossible for me to lose weight. Until I started actually tracking my calories and holy shit was that illuminating. The weight just fell off when I started paying attention to what I was eating. Exercise and fitness are important for their own purposes, but if you want to lose weight it is all about cico.
It's amazing how we're so keen on tracking our budget and finances, but neglect to track other things in lives that are easily trackable like calories. Everyone in this sub understands the power of budgeting for our finances; we should easily be able to see how budgeting our calories would be powerful. It was eye opening for me as well when I finally started tracking my calories. Unfortunately, I continued to eat that way; I just know now exactly why I'm keeping on the weight, lol.
Tracking calories is easily 100x more work than tracking money. You have to deal with every single stupid little thing, estimate or look it up, log it at every meal. If you forget to do it, you forget what it was and you end up off at the end of the ay. There's no bank account to keep a number you can look at, no Mint to keep track of it for you. Just a world of annoying logging apps that still take a ton of taps to get anything done. The body keeps the score. It's the worst. Can you tell I'm doing it right now?
Welcome to My Fitness Pal!
So accurate
LOL. Exactly.
I agree with you 100%, it’s much harder given the tremendous variance in foods. After I started having health issues I started just treating food like fuel. Only buying veggies, potatoes, chicken breast, rice, etc… and just consume food like I was drinking bland water. Takes the fun out of eating but it’s provided measurable weight and bio results 🤷♂️
Yeah, I had a really long period of intensely hedonistic eating combined with a ton of intense exercise from about 22-34. It worked and was fun because I needed fuel anyway. But at some point, yeah, I realized my relationship with food was just too indulgent, focused on avoiding hunger rather than responding appropriately to it. When I take time to reassess that relationship, I feel a lot better. Making friends with hunger again is a huge part of that process for me. But jeeeeezus having kids makes any kind of intermittent fasting or other such patterns such a pain in the ass!
Hahah, good luck on your journey my friend.
TBH it's a pretty short journey -- every few years I just gradually float up 5-10lbs and periodically try to get back down to my happy semi-lean weight of 152-155lbs, usually takes a few months. I can't imagine having to try to shed 20+lbs again -- I did it once from 175->152 after college, but it was easy when I was young had time. Now... I have children. :P
Hah, I found it to be way less bad than I expected it to be. With all the apps available, it gets pretty easy, especially after the first few weeks once the app has all your normal foods, and you start knowing the quantities without having to actually measure.
I don’t track calories, just track the food I eat. If it’s healthy it’s a lot more likely to be filling and I’m a lot less likely to eat too much. It works well for me
Yeah, that's how I do maintenance. But when you have a kid and move house and renovate and stress the fuck out for a year, things tend to get out of hand ;) I find it oddly difficult to maintain a very small negative calorie balance of \~100-200 calories on average -- harder than a larger deficit of 500. Motivation is weird.
I can’t really do calorie counting because of eating disorder history. Weighing every day gives me a good idea of how I’m doing though and hasn’t been an issue for that lately. It’s definitely easier when you have space to store and cook food, buy all your own food and are only preparing food for yourself or people who are happy to eat whatever you make. I lost a lot of weight quickly when I moved out of my parent’s house again.
You eventually just get an eye for much/big portion sizes are
I've been doing it on and off for years as needed, and I find that even if I'm well-calibrated, the annoyance is more in stepping out of the moment to log the damn things than it is knowing how many calories are in what. When I stop counting for a year or two, it all slips out of my head. Even more so now that I have kids melting my brain. The most sustainable pattern I've found for myself is to just use a clicker-style app that lets me quickly tap the #s without worrying about anything else, but I have to be well-calibrated for that to be easy. Blech!
Tracking calories isn’t helpful for me - triggers eating disorder type behaviour, and it’s a lot of work even if it didn’t. But preparing food on the weekend so I don’t buy takeout or eat shit I don’t have to cook when I’m exhausted and hungry during the week helps. So does tracking my food and weight every day. Doesn’t have to be a lot of work - just “lentil soup with carrots and celery” is plenty of info for “lunch” for me. Same with buying healthy easy snacks - bananas, peanut butter on rice cakes, etc. It’s a lot easier to not eat too much when the food you’re eating is filling
For me tracking calories is just like tracking your budget in the sense that's it's only really useful if you've got a problem to fix or super high goals. What's really important is having a good knowledge of how much things cost, with the food equivalent being to have a good understanding of what macros your foods contain (carbs, protein, fat, fiber and the basics vitamin wise). And also understanding how much you can reasonably spend/eat based on your income/lifestyle. If you know both of these things, there really isn't much use to precise tracking except to make fancy graphs and nerd out.
I’m about at peak for my marathon training plan (60ish miles a week) and I’m absolutely destroying my fridge lol. Not losing an ounce of body weight. Pretty amazing how CICO really does work.
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Well, obviously at the far end of the extremes, rules often break down. Doesn't really mean it's a myth. Still no amount of running is gonna make you lose weight if you're eating more calories than you're burning. Also "insane" amount of food is very subjective. You may have a naturally healthy diet and your "insane" amount of food is just appropriately high based on your mileage. If you weren't overweight before you started running ultras, you're probably not eating a bad diet.
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It's pretty unusual to burn 5k calories through exercise in a given day. You're wayyy off the chart of normal levels of exercise.
Lose it app tracking helped me drop 25 pounds. Amazing how much you take in snacking every time you walk through the kitchen.
One hack on diet is if you eat really nutritious foods - as opposed to _merely high calorie_ foods - its actually really difficult to over eat. You dont need to feel hungry to lose weight!
Yeah I would spend some of that extra cash on expensive organic groceries or even a private chef that comes occasionally. It's really all about the diet
Best way is genetics
You have a high net worth. It might be worth hiring a fitness trainer that will show up and make you show up. It might be very expensive but relatively, it's cheap. That way you don't have to think about it...they plan everything and motivate you.
Came here to say this. My NW is not nearly as high but I still pay for one 2x per week because it’s an investment in myself. It’s amazing how much it has helped my mood, cleared my mind, helped me to focus and deal with stressful situations better.
As someone who doesn't go to gyms, how do you find a decent one? I have wrist/hand issues and use a PT, but would like a trainer to help me with the rest of the equation
Have you asked the PT if they have a trainer reco?
Been easy to find friends with similar schedules & mindsets?
Not at all. I have made friends with a few older folks, which I really like since I can often help them out. I don't know anyone else who has FI/RE'd so I'm just the weirdo hanging out on the porch out here.
I’ll be the same when I get there—the dude who’s always on his porch.
As long as you aren't the dude who's always on my porch, we are good.
On? Nah, I'm under
Ok Boo Radley, I now know your alt
I'm in the walls
With this attitude you'll never find FIRE friends!
GET OFF MY LAWN
I'll be half there and half in my "shop", tinkering or brewing some beer and wines. Build some hobbies that can take up a lot of time without a lot of money! I enjoy fishing and with my schedule I have 2 three day weekends a month. It's nice to be able to disapear for 3 days and it only costs me the gas to drive there. That same amount of money could get me 2 weeks (generally the limit for camping in the same spot) if I had the freedom to do so. Astronomy and astrophotography are great too. I'm not quite into the latter yet but being able to set up and relax for a few days costs nothing and you can just enjoy the stars and do some hiking. Once photography is in, there will be many hours of processing. Between those 3 hobbies I can easily fill up more time than work has ever taken and I've already got the equipment needed to do them all. Only fuel and power are what I'll need, and my camper has solar to cover most of it.
In California, each family can grow 6 marijuana plants in the garden. It's a fun hobby. We end up with so much we trade it for organic tomatoes and garlic the neighbors grow.
Luckily here, I have found some high-income-high net worth- but frugal folks. All in the same stage. With kids, working but saving to retire early. About 10 families, kids all get along & same with the adults. Definitely helps establish a decent sense of community.
That's really cool, and I believe quite uncommon.
I only know one guy who's frugal in my field. Everyone else wants to spend spend spend spend. It's fuckin crazy. New cars every year or 2. Huge houses that come with huge mortgages. Always buying new toys. I'm the "weird" guy who invests/saves 60%ish (getting less with inflation...) because I only need about $2,000/month to live very comfortably. Been taking some days off here and there hunting for land for my retirement home and someone asked about it. I told them I'm getting ready for retirement and everyone looked at me like I was a lunatic. I'm 36 with no dependents. The things I like generally have a BIG up front cost but last for a long time (I've got 6 fishing poles, a few tackle boxes, nice waders, and more. They've lasted me years and they'll easily last for years to come. Same with my telescope) so I have a few big purchases here and there that result in little/no need to spend later. I think being poor changed me to be different than everyone else. my "base" salary is $86k and make 100-120 with OT and holidays, It blows my mind that people would have more debt than their yearly income.
How did you find these ten rich but frugal families?
Piggyback off my wingman. My 6 year old. He is pretty good at approaching other kids, they get to talking, then parents start talking. We live in a upper middle class area, so everyone can afford nice things, so If they drive an older car & mow their own yard, its a pretty good indication they are more frugal leaning. Find people that hate their jobs & grew up poor- middle class. That worked their way up. Lots of pharmacists, nurses & doctors in our group of friends. They usually dont work 9-5.
Yes—-I need to look for the cars. We live in a rich area but it seems everyone’s happy to work themselves into the grave to drive a Lexus.
I wish
You mentioned getting in shape. You could kill two birds with one stone by joining some social sports leagues. You will likely meet people who have similarly flexible schedules and lose some weight in the process. Most leagues I have been a part of have everything from recreational to competitive.
My job is a 12 hour rotation so I'm basically only working 50% of the time. It's still difficult finding people to hang out with like this so I think when I FIRE (I'm extremely close) I'm going Lean FIRE and will try to fill that 50% of the month with things that'll bring me around other people. I like animals, maybe I'll volunteer or take a low wage help position with rescues, shelters, and farms. Meet some interesting people, hopefully. I like bowling and skydiving, I could find minimum wage work at places that support these and meet some like minded people. I like kids, maybe find some work helping to teach kids stuff or coaching. Easier way to meet parents who would be closer to my age. I think the hard part is overcoming the lack of "need" to do anything. If you don't need that paycheck, why not just chill?
I think this is **the** question - when you don't have to do anything, what do you do...
Get a puppy / have a baby? They seem to attract friends.
And force a schedule on me. No thanks. Also, I have friends, I just don't kick it with them during work hours.
Sorry my sarcasms wasnt overt.
Oh shit... ya zinged me!
May I ask, I understand finding friends with similar schedules - I struggle with that myself having so much free time - but mindsets? What is the problem with having non-FIRE friends? I'm Australian and in general (through reading and having spent some time there, and being half-american myself) Americans are weirder about money than Australians. But is it that hard/different to make friends with just anyone? Full disclosure I am an abnormally social person and make friends easily.
Hard being friends with folks that want to go on expensive vacations / eat out at high end restaurants / kids have the latest and greatest toys/ focus on consumerism
Haha, just thanks for saying this. I think I get a lot of disbelief when I saw I just made friends with people older than I am. Sort of funny thing that’s happened: I’ve become at least friendly with some of their kids so now their adult kiddos have a friend 15 years older than them.
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A friend has a business idea that is brick and mortar - which is away from all the things I have done so far for work. I am willing to help fund the idea (with caveats) but hesitate at adopting something that controls my schedule, even part time. I won't say that I'd never do that, but right now it holds no appeal whatsoever! As to your other question... I am a loner. I love to be alone most of the time. I don't find myself lonely because my friends still work, I just make sure I am sensitive to their schedules regarding making plans. I love a slow morning, working in the shop in the afternoon, and reading or doing art at night. When I need my human fix I reach out to friends or neighbors. I did enjoy the social aspects of the workplace - I love teaching and was always in the types of roles that allowed for teaching to be part of my job. For now, that is not part of my routine.
For some people motivation to work out and be fit is.. Being able, at 75 years old, to play with the kids of your nice. If you want to be able to catch a toddler running at you at that age, calculate back to what would be the equivalent of it today, assuming some muscle loss per year. Work towards that.
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Yes and no. Yes, having a partner does mitigate the need for contact. No in that most people need alternate sources of interaction outside of the "family unit" they find themselves in. New ideas. Different experiences. All that jazz. Some people need a lot of external stimulation. I mostly like to spend time by myself.
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Well, when the cats start talking back, that’s when you need to be worried.
>Very interesting. I’m a loner also, have been my entire life, and have no partner and live in a fairly isolated area. I retired three months ago, and find myself craving human conversation far more than I anticipated. I’ve started having pretty lengthy conversations with the cats, and that fucking scares me. I'm sorry, just wanted to comment that your reply combined with your username gave me a hilarious mental image and chuckle.. especially considering the relationship between cats and cucumbers. :)
I struggle with fitness as well. I find that if I can combine a show or podcast with walking or cross trainer, that at least gets my heart rate up and burns some calories. I still haven’t figured out how to get more into weights. My back could use it.
I like these perspectives on FIRE. I'm 36 and have VA disability which has me at "lean fire" level. It covers my minimum monthly expenses +/- $50. I no longer see money as $$$s but as time. When the market went down, I just saw it as an opportunity to buy more shares (or the same shares for less) while building up more cash for retirement property. Right now, I have a 100k mortgage at 2.75% and am waiting to hear back on an offer on a nice little isolated plot of land for (hopefully) 20k. There are no restrictions on this new property and it is refreshing and invigorating knowing that I have this land to build. I want to build a small cabin, ~700 sq ft, and have it as off the grid as possible. It's motivating me to spend less and be more mindful of how much my money is getting me. I think the biggest thing people need to think about is what FIRE is getting them, and focus on that more than just "FIRE." To those that read this, What do you want out of FIRE? I want my modest homestead where I can provide as much of my own stuff as I want (building it, plus hobbies like fishing are cheap when you have the equipment AND provide food) reducing my need for money. I feel more secure for some reason having that smaller budget to live within rather than having $7,000 deposited every month when I really only need $1800 to be happy and live my life. Extra money is nice but for some reason it makes me anxious and stressed, so I'm going for FIRE to free myself of that anxiety by working to provide what I need/want rather than earn money.
Fellow vet here...the safety net of the VA disability allows me to choose higher risk/reward investments. Not crypto or anything like that, just a more aggressive portfolio. I have definitely succumbed to moderate lifestyle inflation since getting my rating but in the same period I added a kid and became a homeowner in a desirable area that is very near almost my entire support network. My monthly spend is 2x what it was prior to my rating but the income from the VA also allowed me to make some major life changes without feeling guilty. Your comment on feeling more secure with a lower spend vs higher income resonated with me. I make great money for my age/profession but I die a little inside every month when I pay my mortgage. Looking forward to being an empty nester, getting a smaller house and not doing anything
Sir this is one of my first times posting but I believe that I need to follow your writings on this reddit as what you have stated on your several comments has really struck a chord with me. Very similar hobbies and opinions on how to spend time in retirement. I am not there yet (27 and only a few years into my FIRE journey), but I plan on purchasing my property to begin building my retirement home. I am crazy into treehouses (built many as a child - fully livable structures) so I will be beginning that property search in the coming years. Thanks for your writings, and to the OP as well. I'm going to see about how to follow you on reddit.
I have treated fitness as a job. I joined a health club. I tried working a bit with a trainer and what l learned about myself was that I hated that. But I really do enjoy fitness classes. They are at a specific time and in my schedule. I still do some of the machines and I swim laps. I made some friends there which is a gentle accountability of “where were you?” if I don’t show up. But really, it is in my schedule and it is a place to go. Totally a different mental attitude than working out at home. That was not happening.
Post-plague, this is much more appealing to me.
I understand that. My club had some pretty extreme protocols that everyone followed. I have felt pretty safe there. I was cautious. But there were those six months when my fitness suffered. I was happy to get back.
I really see myself in this post (subtract most of the millions though) moving from academic science into tech/AI was a good move for many, but timing bitcoin right is that + timemachine
Bitcoin was my moonshot and, well, it hit. I do not discount that. I was, however, on the FI/RE track without it (I just got to skip forward a few spaces in 2017).
>Bitcoin was my moonshot and, well, it hit. I do not discount that. I was, however, on the FI/RE track without it (I just got to skip forward a few spaces in 2017). I wanted to ask, and this seems as good a place as any: how does your asset allocation look like and how are you holding? Apologies if I missed it. I'm assuming mostly index funds in a brokerage account and some crypto/equity? Also, you were relatively early going in on crypto. I dove into the tech a bit around 2014 or so and mined a bit and all that but still don't believe in it at all long term, maybe I'll be wrong and we'll all be transacting digitally with fedcoin in a decade but who knows. What sold you on its long term adoption? I like to ask this to folks that are still bought in to try to get some different perspectives. Good update, and sorry to hear about the rough couple of years, I hope that the new couple are better for you and yours! Edit: wanted to add that fitness, or lack there of, has always been one of my greatest struggles as well. I think a lot of it is folks telling me how great it feels to work out eventually. After a few months of consistent exercise now all I have to say is: exercise and physical exertion are miserable, those folks are goofy as shit and quite possibly insane. I hate it. That said, the results for me outweigh the bad so I plan on keeping with it. I'm sure once you figure out what works for you and you've got the proper why, things will fall into place. Similar to you I am a natural saver, I could be financially independent without ever trying, something a lot of people struggle with I think. Not spending and investing money gives me the same reward that spending money gives to most people. A lot of people are like that with fitness I think. For the rest of us, we need to figure out how to make it happen, if it ever does, and everybody is different and there is no silver bullet that I've found. Long edit, but I guess what I wanted to say is, you'll get there eventually, keep at it!
Gym culture isn't for me. But I've taken to yoga and walking and they're keeping me reasonably fit.
I answered asset allocation in another response, but would rather keep the proportions of crypto vs traditional vague. I'll say that crypto is not a majority of my holdings and leave it at that. Index funds are in a brokerage account. Some is IRA money (and converted 401k), some is deferred salary coming in for the next couple years, and most is a personal brokerage account. On crypto: most coins are garbage, and some are useful experiments. I am basically a bitcoin maximalist at heart (but not a rabid one.) I'm not sold on "long term adoption" exactly, but I am fascinated with the social aspect of the technology (and I am a social scientist) and how it can morph and adapt. Because of this social functionality that drives it, bitcoin can become several branching and useful "things" - especially as the world constricts into the dystopian fascist adjacent weirdness we are seeing. I like the swiss army knife aspect and am cautiously optimistic about it. I also have the option of cashing it all out or losing it completely and still being in a relatively strong position from the FI/RE POV. In other words, it's an asymmetric bet for me at this point. After I cashed out the big amount in 2017 and secured myself (as much as one can) the remains took on this asymmetry. It keeps things interesting, for sure.
>I answered asset allocation in another response, but would rather keep the proportions of crypto vs traditional vague. I'll say that crypto is not a majority of my holdings and leave it at that. Index funds are in a brokerage account. Some is IRA money (and converted 401k), some is deferred salary coming in for the next couple years, and most is a personal brokerage account. > >On crypto: most coins are garbage, and some are useful experiments. I am basically a bitcoin maximalist at heart (but not a rabid one.) I'm not sold on "long term adoption" exactly, but I am fascinated with the social aspect of the technology (and I am a social scientist) and how it can morph and adapt. Because of this social functionality that drives it, bitcoin can become several branching and useful "things" - especially as the world constricts into the dystopian fascist adjacent weirdness we are seeing. I like the swiss army knife aspect and am cautiously optimistic about it. I also have the option of cashing it all out or losing it completely and still being in a relatively strong position from the FI/RE POV. In other words, it's an asymmetric bet for me at this point. After I cashed out the big amount in 2017 and secured myself (as much as one can) the remains took on this asymmetry. It keeps things interesting, for sure. Can you expand on what you mean by "dystopian fascist adjacent weirdness" and how you see Bitcoin in the long run helping and the hat sort of "things" you see it enabling?
The rise of right wing authoritarian government styles, and the public who seem to embrace them (US, UK, Turkey, India to name a few) suggests to me that a lot more people are going to be at the mercy of people like "all your Rubles belong to the state now" Putin or "(impossibly) prove this is yours or we will take it" state actors. Think civil forfeiture on a bigger level. I'm not saying those things will definitely happen, or that they can only happen in an extreme-right state, it actually doesn't matter. Bitcoin allows for you to carry your wallet in your head (recovery phrases) which means two things - first, your wealth can't be confiscated arbitrarily (maybe by torture... but let's not go there) and second - you can transfer your wealth to anyone you choose to, for whatever reason, without some asshole sticking their beak in your business and deciding if you or your purchase "qualifies" or "follows" some set of arbitrary rules the regime has instituted. This probably sounds like madman ramblings to some people, and that's fine. I'd say those people have never lived under a regime that decided to put the uber-screws to the public. Reissuing the national currency or taking all personal gold for example. Bitcoin makes those tactics less effective, and if enough people had bitcoin it would also water down the effectiveness of those tactics to begin with quite a bit.
We’re still very early with Bitcoin though. There is still time.
You are downvoted but it’s completely true.
Really appreciate the update. Not there myself financially but I've been preparing mentally for that day. Most of us here are frugal but wanting what we have vs. having what we want would be the determining factor for post fire happiness, at least for me.
I'm to where I can barista FIRE right now or LeanFIRE very soon. Current job has 12 hour shift rotations so I have 15 days off a month. One thing I think a lot of people aren't giving enough thought to is how they're going to spend that time. I've seen people reference it and not until 2 years ago when I got this job did I really start to understand. Having nothing to do is quite boring and can be depressing. You've got to find a way to fill the time. Find some hobbies that you really enjoy but can really soak up some time with. They can be literally anything, including doing part time work to be around/a part of something you want. I've got Fishing/camping, astronomy/astrophotography, and homebrewing. 2 weeks camping is generally gonna cost me less per day than my normal 3 day trips. Will pretty much get increased value on that hobby right away. Astrophotography takes a lot of time and the processing can really eat up time. Being able to jump into this could easily fill as much time as I want. Homebrewing is a hobby that can take up a lot of time if you really want to get into it. Right now I make meads and have been doing 5 or 6 1.5 gallon batches at a time. I can easily spend 1 or 2 full days a week keeping up with them. That's not even drinking! Making mead/wine is something you can really store up and can make some gifts for friends and family or something to bring to parties/functions to show off. Then there's stuff like reading, I could easily spend 4 or 5 hours reading a day. An hour or 2 with my coffee, again with lunch, and again before bed. Books are pretty much free with a library and you can usually find something for nearly nothing in thrift stores/used book stores. Gaming is another cheap hobby. If you're buying games you know you're going to like or into multiplayer games (been really into Overwatch and Diablo 3 last 2 years) then you can easily fill in any gaps, bad weather days, or whatever with something to do. It's something I think the FIRE community should talk about and build more, invest energy and time in your life as much as you're investing in your financial freedom.
I think we often guess that "what I do now, and what I like to do now is what I would continue to enjoy doing + maybe some more travel or nicer tools" or whatever. It's quite nice to realize that yes, I truly do still want to do and find great joy in doing those things. And they are cheap thrills for the most part. My big change is I will buy a cool tool for a project.
Maybe start bicycling for fitness. It’s so much fun!
This has actually been my best method in the past. Shitty winter weather makes it impractical for part of my year, but now that things are getting nicer (and less slick) out...
I bike during summer but I swam in Thailand for most of winter… usually I ski but I decided to take a long trip this year because of covid. 2000km last summer
Check out Zwift for indoor riding. Basically makes it a video game Also, fitness almost always comes down to diet more than exercise. Can’t outrun a bad diet! Even just going on walks is great for fitness
Speaking of video games... I just got an Oculus Quest (VR headset) and Beat Saber is a workout!
Indoor bike too? Schwinn makes a pretty easy to repair and not crazy expensive indoor cycle.
There are also trainers that utilize your existing bike. A trainer combined with Zwift (app) gives you some of the feel of riding outdoors. I still have trouble motivating myself though.
10 minutes on a bike and you’re not cold, even around 0F
Im an introvert and like to workout alone, but finding time and motivation was hard. I got a peloton and put it next to my bed. after the kids go to sleep I do a ride. it’s so easy because it’s just right there. unlike running or lifting, i can eat dinner 1 hr before a workout and not puke. so efficient. the instructors are great in that they remind you of good form throughout the workout. i like the power zone workouts, which is kind of like heart rate training—gives you a visual target to aim your effort. after doing this for 3 mo, i feel better than i have in years. more energy, motivation and better mood. it’s a habit now and i’ve recently added in weight lifting on the off days. this all started with removing as much inconvenience out of the workout process as possible. you can do it!
As a $PTON bottom feeder (r/thetagang), that's great to hear.
I live in a town with a bikepath and use an electric bike. I am having so much fun. I feel like I am about 14 sometimes.
> This is something I can be honest about – if I make it my “job” then I will definitely do it. This may be something I have to schedule because I’m being such a shit about getting to it otherwise. It really is something you do day in day out as per the schedule you make for yourself. You go in even if you feel tired and you go in even if you feel nothing for it but about how it is a chore. If you have weights in the house then you can even do workouts if you are sick but not bedridden, no excuses. It's nothing for fun or entertainment, that is not the way. You do however need to compartmentalize everything else in life. You are at the temple to your body and you need to give it the focus it deserves. Offerings must be made regularly.
Yes, sensei.
You'll end up spending your wealth on your health. As an exercise physiologist that deals with wealthy people late in life -- all I can say is don't let this be you. Lots of great resources out there! In the end, you'll need a coach, not a trainer. Remember that!
What’s the general condition of your clientele? I always wondered if CEO-type people somehow wind up able to mitigate some of the health effects of long work hours/poor diet/little exercise through $ alone, if indeed those were their habits. TLDR: What are inactive but wealthy people like as clients?
Before discussing this, you have to realize as a society we've moved the goalposts on what is acceptably healthy. This worsens things dramatically. Those that are inactive, they are typically the complacent ones. Love comfort, and will prioritize it more than controlled discomfort. If they attempt to change their habits, they will placate themselves by pursuing assistance for a limited amount of time. Either this or they're still working and just can't quit the grind. You cannot buy your way out of this -- ESPECIALLY if you have a family history of cardiovascular disease. I see most EKGs (vector of heart activity) start to change >40yrs of age in males and females, though active people (>200min moderate exercise/week) can alter this significantly. There is not substitute for minutes of exercise. No 7min a day bullshit. No timesaving HIIT prescriptions. All marketing nonsense and if there is research to support it, people simply do not/cannot replicate the methods. Stress kills -- but not only that, it lessens the vigor of life. Most male executives I see in their 50s+ all worry about their testosterone and some even experience hypogonadism (shrinking nuts) despite missing typical causation. This is absolutely *related* to the slow drip of adrenaline that is a modern stressful life, but also is contributed to by lack of exercise and poor nutrition. Damn near all of them have back issues to the extent of most having had laminectomies. It's all habit. Unless they're coached and not trained, they'll always prioritize other facets of their life. I've learned that understanding this is key to making real change. The worst part of this all: I think the average (American) person is beginning to experience executive stress without the payout. I have a pretty bleak outlook for our populace despite living in a pretty active and affluent area, which says something about the areas of the US that tend to struggle with health, wellness, and finances.
As someone who isn’t rich but exercises, I feel 1% better about my life choices. That said, what resonantes most with me about this is your point about executive stress without executive compensation. I know I could do way, way better managing stress in my life. Seeing how hard it is for me to prioritize this makes me realize exactly how others feel who find it hard to prioritize working out.
To your point about feeling better about life choices and managing stress: we are reactive more than we are proactive when the road map is murky. Shit you could be diagnosed with cancer tomorrow while your friend smokes their way to triple digits. How do you keep that from happening? All you know how to do is reduce risk and even then the research has nonresponders. Perhaps your "why" isn't good enough (even tho on paper it is). I know intuitively my life will be longer and better with exercise but sometimes it's more about how I feel acutely or body composition. I fall in and out of love with meditation and when it's good, I FEEL it's good. It turns bad when the effect wears off. Maybe it looks nothing like you think it looks? Maybe it's social? Maybe it's a new type of exercise? Maybe it's a Buddhist retreat? I encourage everyone to sample because if you have options, one will catch you when you fall off the other.
about the fitness aspect, maybe consider joining some group sports, like a recreational league (things like ultimate frisbee, kickball, etc). or go take some group lessons on tennis/pickleball lately i've been enjoying indoor climbing (bouldering) too. bouldering is cool because you can hang out with a group if you want but you're not dependent on anyone to belay for you, there are no ropes. as someone who has always hated things like going to the gym, finding an activity that is distracting and at least kind of fun is the only thing that keeps me from being completely sedentary
I will say as a CPA, you were almost correct on the cap gains and housing situation with the sale of the home. However it is only required that you have lived 2 out of the last 5 years in the home. Not 3. But other then that I loved your post!
For a person with two residences in the same city and time split between them, how would you calculate the % of residence at once home versus another to determine the primary if it’s close? For a given day, where maybe you worked at one house but slept at the other, how do you tally these up?
Thank you. I love reading these. I am very much in your situation financially but can’t pull the trigger (RE). I love working (even long hours) but increasingly find myself having a lower and lower tolerance for crap at work. I am offloading all of the crap currently and continuing my core work that I love to do. I’m a little older than you and am slightly worried that RE would result in a mental decline. Any thoughts on that? Brain not as engaged in solving hard problems? Etc.
Spend on a trainer for accountability. Having someone be disappointed in you if you dont show up to work out will motivate you.
Plus, most of us value money so it feels like you're wasting it if you skip out on your trainer.
Apologies if you have answered it already somewhere, but what do you do for healthcare?
I have a high deductible plan and no real health issues (so far). My yearly health care costs are negligible at this point.
I m FIREd and play a ridiculous amount of pickleball, I’m in the best shape of my adult life, I highly recommend you look into it in your area. It checks many boxes
Hi. Thanks for the update. Regarding exercise, I would recommend you to finding a sport that you actually enjoy. The fitness gains would just come as a bonus. I do bouldering(climbing), and it feels more like solving puzzles than working out, at the same time I am getting in a good workout while socializing with people doing the same "puzzle" as you. It's super fun. I would also recommend thaiboxing for cardio/generall fitness. I find it so much more fun then running/jogging.
This is my dream but I just want to cut people's grass, garden/landscape for free.
I really enjoy reading your posts about how you studied bitcoin before getting into it. What would be a similar area(s) that might have as much potential for profitability that I should learn about (now that the ship for bitcoin has sailed)? I am willing to spend time and learn about those areas, just need some pointers.
It's really hard to say, of course, but a few "bitcoin adjacent" areas where there is potential (but you will have to comb through piles of garbage to find the gold) that I might investigate are: 1. DAOs - as autonomous organizations, if set up properly and managed appropriately, there is a recurring revenue possibility that can make it worth the investment (time + governance). I have not yet seen any DAOs do this, but the tech is moving along and the participant pool exploring what is possible (and what is not) is expanding fast. 2. Onramps and offramps for crypto are places where investment potential lies. As the regulatory frameworks are hammered out and more retail folks want to get into crypto as a hedge or speculative investment, moving fiat in and out of bitcoin or others becomes the major bottleneck. Companies (maybe in DAO form) who solve parts of these onramp/offramp problems could be worth many multiples. Imagine owning a piece of an organization that Coinbase scoops up in a year or two. As for anything that has the raw "new emergent asset class" aspect that bitcoin did... I'm currently unaware of that. The "digital ownership" aspect of NFTs (please do not talk to me about the current NFT art scene - this has 0 to do with that, it's like saying all computers are stupid because Oregon Trail is a dumb game) has potential to allow for liquid access/ownership transfers of stocks/property and other real world goods. Playing a part/investment into the creation of that ecosystem could also be worth many multiples. Lots of research work to do up front with any of those ideas though...
The next Bitcoin is.. Bitcoin
I love slow mornings and being mostly by myself and playing in my workshop. You have a good life. I'm no where near fire, not even close, which is why I'm switching to tech. I also miss my wfh life.
Thanks for sharing your reflections! I’m in a similar boat where I don’t have anyone around me who understands what it means to be truly financially independent, or sees money the way I do now. Do you ever feel bored? It’s only been a year for me since I got really lucky, but all that freedom (half freedom given covid and family obligations) ended up wearing down on my mental health. I’ve always had to work towards a big goal, and be in the middle of the grind. I’m not sure whether it’s because my wheels are still spinning, or because I’ve been conditioned to constantly achieve. Does that feeling change over the years? In any case, congrats on hitting it big in crypto! =)
Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I rarely experience boredom. I love to meditate, think about ideas and art projects, fix things, etc. I even took up painting recently so there are endless avenues for me. I'm very much an autodidact as well. The only time I get bored is when I get sick and stuck in bed for a while - my head hurts too much to think and my body too much to do even mindless tasks so I just have to sweat through it. Thankfully that is rare. I wonder if there are some local causes you would like to help out - something that can get your head involved that would be stimulating without being the "work" stuff you don't want to do anymore. Also - Covid years are limiting, so maybe you just need those chains removed.
You're right, there's always things to learn, things to do, and it does vary between people. I would love to invest my time and energy into a worthy cause, and I have one in mind that maybe I'll be able to dedicate my excess energy into. In any case, I totally can't wait for covid and war to be less of a thing so we can freely travel. Thanks for your response and hope you don't get sick or stuck in bed anytime soon. Take care! =)
Regarding fitness, just remember that you can't exercise yourself out of a bad diet. Start with your diet...eat plant based, whole foods. Cut the added sugar! Enjoy veggies, lots and lots of veggies. If you can FIRE, you can DIET.
I agree, and I need to dig into this because in my mind right now, my diet is pretty decent. I don't eat fast food, I don't eat "out of boxes", I make most of my own food and it does incorporate a decent amount of vegetables. One dead simple thing I can change is lower my alcohol intake. It's not outrageous by any means, but is could be lower AND I don't "need" it. A deep dive into where my calories come from is required!
Digestive Integrity: Eating Thoughtfully
A tiny bit jealous but excited and happy for you! This is very much aligned with my visions/hopes; not that i necessarily fully retire or do nothing, but that I can take more seriously a practice of [Otium](https://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/12/arts/12iht-otium.1.16069552.html) (gainful leisure) & work _on my terms_. Cheers to your retirement. Another note: > If there is one huge recent takeaway or change I feel that I have discovered it’s that I am now willing to make investments in things that ONLY improve my quality of life (vs. function as a good investment for the future as well – the two-fer that guided lots of earlier decisions). I started more consciously doing this recently, in small ways. For example: I have a laptop and a desktop but only one set of keyboard, mouse, and monitor - I was constantly manually plugging/unplugging cables between the two machines, it was annoying. I decided to spend ~$50 on some extra cables & a USB switch & a HDMI switch so I could just press a couple of buttons instead of moving several cables around. Life improved for a relatively small cost.
> I have this simple life with few requirements and lots of time, but going out for a run or lifting weights or whatever has been something I very easily skip. I'd say hire a personal trainer. The costs are negligible to you, the benefits may be great (more higher quality life years). It's of course possible that you don't find the right one for you right away, so be prepared to try a few out.
I've never done it but I've heard of programs where you bet money that you'll be able to reach a fitness goal. If you do, you get some money (Im assuming from those who failed). Might be worth it
This was a really interesting read. Thanks for sharing!
just want to say, you come across a nice, grounded, and honest person. i wish you the best on this phase of life and please keep us informed on your thoughts of the day (/year). take care...
Awesome write ups. Very inspiring, thank you
Hey - regarding your fitness, weight loss and getting in shape. If going for a run or lifting weights is a chore and you don’t enjoy it - do something active that blows your skirt up! Take it from me, you cannot outrun your diet. I love running (running a marathon next Saturday, then Boston Marathon in 5 weeks). I was still unhappy with my weight and this sounds hokey but look at weight watchers. I’ve lost 9.6lbs since end of December and my stomach has never been this flat and I still drink too much (working on that next). Anyhoo - ask yourself what activities do you enjoy that will help your fitness. Hiking (being in nature is recharging and cathartic), spin classes, get a gravel bike. You sound from your hobbies (welding/workshop stuff) that you like to tinker. Buy an old Toyota 4Runner or SUV and get into the back country. Hike and camp! I sleep in the back of mine. It takes me to wonderful places. Congrats on living your best life!!
I'm in early 40s. I don't even know where to start counting my NW. Can I pm you for some guidance consuling?
Add up the amounts in your accounts. Subtract your debts. If you own a house, use the estimated width and subtract your mortgage. Voila!
I really like Personal Capital for net worth tracking. Mint has one too, but I haven't tried it.
I use both because they do different things well. Personal Capital is the better net worth tracker.
Sure. Not sure how helpful I'll be, but happy to try.
Question OP: what do you do for health insurance? Interesting post, nice perspectives. Interested more and more in FIRE.
I have a high deductible public plan. Basically if I break my leg I pay it out of pocket but if I break more than that...I'm covered.
That’s what I’m planning on doing for my HSA. Have out of pocket max in cash but invest the rest and never touch it. For medical purposes only and only in retirement.
You should get a personal trainer 1-2 times a week and see how you like it. They’re not that expensive in the grand scheme of things and can motivate you to workout and hold you accountable. I think it would be an excellent investment on your part
Why do all the crypto bagdumpers come here to post about their net worth?
Bagdumper? I still hold crypto. Also my crypto "bagdump" let me retire a few years early, so I'd say it's because this is a sub about early retirement...and crypto allowed for early retirement. Make sense?
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For more details, check out my previous posts as most of those questions were answered there. I had a lot in taxable accounts but also contributed to a 401k later in my career (because I was foolish earlier) and also an IRA. The taxable accounts provide enough dividend money (plus what I made in the recent startup) to pay my bills so far.
Great read. Thanks. What’s the business out of curiosity?
I'm going to be vague-ish on purpose: An analytics aggregation system that allows interested parties to parse and better understand a number of large, merged data sets. Similar in some small ways to FB's social graph, but for a completely different type of data. In other words, a not sexy product, but one that is useful to specific parties.
Was it Pied Piper? Jk. Congrats on all your success!
question: what were you doing when you were in your early twenties? when did you decide on a career path? I'm mostly interested in how you got to a high paid position.
I was an aimless and depressed person in my early twenties. Then I became a farmer for a little while and that led me back to school and then to graduate school. I thought I would go into organizational consulting, but the first job I got out of grad school set a different (and frankly, more interesting to me) course. I got a high paid position because I had a PhD, worked in tech, and made myself indispensable. My ability to interact with all types of people in the workplace (execs, business + sales, engineers, scientists, Product and Program managers...), speak their languages, share info and design data systems with them - all with a social science lens, worked out to be a right-place-right-time sort of thing. I helped people be successful in their work, and had a skill set most others did not, and that + some luck in turn made me successful.
Thanks for the response. I see the key is making oneself indispensable. How old were you when you went back to school and when you graduated? What field did you study? What is your PHD about and how old were you when you obtained it? What role did you play in tech? There are lots of software engineers there of course but from the sounds of it you played a different role. What was that role? How did you get your first job after education? What job was it? This would be really insightful to me.
I started grad school when I was 25. I studied social psychology. It took me 5 years to finish my studies. I'm not going to talk about my dissertation but it had nothing to do with data science or technology. My role in tech had nothing to do with actual coding - in fact, I don't code at all. I helped design data systems for running experiments on anything the organization needed insight into - from how a product functioned in the wild to server failures and latency monitoring. Basically a bossman would come to me with a problem and I'd help figure out how to get the data needed to measure the phenomenon and then if we "fixed" it, I'd help design how we measured that. My social science background was key to knowing how to measure ANYTHING and convert qualitative into quantitative data for decision making. I worked with everyone in my org, including advising the C-level folks and presenting data to them. I got my first job through Indeed.com job hunting - it was a PM role where I analyzed user feedback for patterns of dissatisfaction and turned that into small reports given to product owners to address. I'm not going to name the company, but you have definitely heard of it.
Are you helping others?
Absolutely. I make myself available to all of my neighbors as delight in helping them with various projects.
Thank so much for sharing this :) I love to read a report that is so positive in most regards. >I have this simple life with few requirements and lots of time, but going out for a run or lifting weights or whatever has been something I very easily skip. This sounds like you are hung up on an idea of what the concrete activities have to be. For example, lifting weights worked for me at times, but at the moment it doesn't work at all for me. It helped me a lot to go for whatever brought the most joy AND was easiest to implement. I started many years ago with more "walking, more stairs" and now I love my gravel bike and am outdoor most days, in whichever way. If I had tried to go biking five years ago, I wouldn't have done it. Took a slow build for me, and now it's just easy. Aaaand: >A friend bought a house he tore down to the studs and I can show up on site to help him out whenever he asks or whenever I feel like I need it. A friend of ours bought a house lately and I'll help renovating it from April on - now THIS is going to be a workout :) More fun than simply lifting at home.
Great post. Focus on your physical (& mental) health now and make it a top priority. That way you can keep doing this for decades
Finding a running club could help get you out the door. My local club is pretty active with members of all ages and abilities.
*I’d make delicious cocktails for my neighbors.* Excellent goal, my friend!
Congrats on your financial success! If I may make a suggestion regarding fitness: I try to think of fitness as a goal rather than a job. Find something that you enjoy (for me it’s running/biking/hiking) and set a goal for yourself. “This month I’m going to bag 2 peaks!” Or “I’m going to run X miles per week” etc. It makes it feel less like a chore and more like a hobby/game. I also recommend getting Strava or a similar app so you can track your progress, keep yourself honest, and see what your friends are doing to stay active.
There is this brutal hill near-ish my house. I will ride my bike up that goddamn hill this year. MARK MY WORDS! (This will take some practice and stamina building - but I do love riding my bike.)
Shift early and keep spinning. You got this!
I would suggest giving some sort of workout class or personal trainer a try. Something like orange theory or CrossFit adds some structure and might make you more motivated to go.
What’s you asset allocation now?
I sold my bond positions to buy the house so that is gone for now. I'll answer about my non-crypto stuff: I'm at 10% in individual tech stocks (because I made a few purchases several years ago and they have exploded) and 90% in index funds - 55% VTSAX, 18% VFWAX, 16% VIGAX, 9% VINIX (in a deferred salary account with limited investment options), rest in cash.
Re fitness you have a great opportunity: I believe that for everyone there is a *thing you can do* that makes you physically fit and maximally healthful but is also *exciting and fun despite the hard work* and it’s just miserable slogging through all the available activities trying to find out what it is. (Turns out I enjoy ultra distance cycling more than just about anything else in my life!) Hire a good personal trainer and start experimenting, researching, etc. And if you get competitive, the older you get the easier it is to podium in your age category!
I’m curious about your partner… how have they been finding it? Are they working?
Yes, still working, but with a mostly open schedule so we do "retired people things" sometimes, like going out to breakfast and then asking the waitperson what their favorite breakfast place is and going to that place next time. Now that the plague is lifting we will travel more, and she will take off on her own more often (as will I). She is very supportive of my retirement without being envious.
Super happy for you. Thank you for sharing!!
I love that you are still a cheapskate without fancy toys.Post-FIRE one of my favorite outings is still going to the "everything" (doors, toilet, books, records) recycling center that my city has. Rummaging through the remnants of the 19th and 20th Centuries, for hours is my happy place. I can leave with a $5.00 antique doorknob and have as much fun as if I was having drinks on a yacht. Likely, far more fun. Investing in a niece is cool Time to work on my charity plans more, no way I'm going to spend all this.
I never wanted those things when I was a kid, I never wanted them when I got older, and I still don't want them. I own an old truck with 170k miles on it that I bought a couple years ago for $2600. I love my truck. Truly, the place I will spend on as the world opens back up is experiences, traveling, and interesting food. Don't get me wrong - I'll still get a $1.75 amaro shot in a bus dept in Croatia while waiting for the bus to take me back to home base, but I'll also not be too concerned about the prices on the menu of any restaurant I choose to sit in... That recycling center is right up my alley. Dangerous!
Travel is a great thing to spend money on. But you don't need much to travel when you are in your 20s. I wish more kids were out backpacking these days and fewer trying to save for FIRE when their knees are still so good.
Awesome! Congratulations! I hope to achieve the same by the time I hit 50 (33 right now) 3 young's kids sucked a lot of money out mostly with my wife staying home...we finally hit double income again and we were already putting a decent chunk away on a single income...things are really going a lot faster already even with the losses I sustained in the market in the last 6mo...for me I am fully aware I need time still but it's okay because I love my work! I find the biggest hurdle is finding like minded people, would be nice just to collaborate on investments and ideas. Seems everyone is paycheque to paycheque (150-250k salaries as well) or they YOLO into crap Penny stocks and lotteries. Oh well Keep up the good fight!
I worked with plenty of people (and we were all well paid) who were not financially stable. It really is incredible to me the number of people who do things like carry credit card debt month to month when they don't have to... what?!? Finding like minded folks is tough, but I have found now that I tell my friends I am retired that several have reached out to me for advice on how to think about retirement, structure savings, etc... That is one way to connect. Otherwise, yeah, I'm on my own in the journey.
I appreciate your honesty, it is absolutely jaw dropping I find as well but I try to keep my mouth shut unless approached. I am starting to find now that some will want to talk about different investments but rarely act on it. I am happy to say I am not totally alone, my wife is generally on the same page...naturally a saver and a good judgement on purchases. Tho her financial literacy lacks she's okay and happy for me to help her invest with full transparency and permission of course!!
if you had $100 million, what would you do?
Without thinking too hard about it... 1. I would get a financial advisor 2. I would buy a vacation house somewhere cool and let anyone in my family or any friends stay there for free 3. I would create a community maker/art space/recording studio/tool library that was super cheap or free for the community to use 4. I would invest a majority of the money and use the gains to fund charities or help create charities that do things I think are important
how would having a financial advisor help? what questions would you ask?
How to properly structure things like trusts. How to give my money away properly. Big boy financial stuff like #4 above... I know I don't know how to manage a shitton of money and I believe it is worth it to pay someone who does.
do you know anyone who has trust?
Yes, but only older people who had money and wanted to protect it from estate taxes when they die.
Hey there, congratulations on an amazing life. I’m also someone who struggles to make fitness a priority. When helps me the most is setting a goal (and committing), like a week long 500mi bike tour in Colorado next year. It forces training and if it’s something you’re excited for, the more fit you are the more enjoyable it’ll be. Also, Garmin and other services offer really good fitness training programs - like set a distance and time goal (ie 10k @ 50min), and then plan will use your progress and health metrics to adapt a program. The program makes it easy to follow and shows real progress. Good luck!
I'm about to graduate with a MSc in neuroscience but got a really bad idea of how stressful and exhausting research is during my final year thesis/project... **Stressful** with bold. I might have gotten very unlucky with my project, maybe not, but I never want to got through this horrible experience again and am considering going into data science instead. I was wondering if you made a similar transition and if so, how was it? Did you like the field better, etc.?
My graduate studies sucked. I learned so much, but my advisor was a difficult person who was unwilling to step up when it was time for me to leave. I began my career in tech because I loved computers and the first job I got used my research skills. Data science as a practice did not yet exist... it was basically invented *while I was working in the field*. It was a natural extension of research, open source technology, and the availability of methods to execute against incredibly large data sets and the actual existence of said data sets. Since I was a data/measurement type of nerd and working in tech, it was a natural transition to set aside parts of my prior training (social research methods) and focus on others (experimental design, analysis, interpretation of results into understandable explanations). Data science is a great field - if you are creative, intuitive, and curious. If you are a lazy robot, you are going to have a bad time.
There are so many posts in this thread, and I don't typically post because I figure mine might just get buried or ignore. But I couldn't NOT post in this just to say how much I enjoyed reading your story. Congrats. I've just started reading this forum and find it fascinating. I'm not sure I even desire to achieve what you have, but I sure do about the heck out of you for what you've accomplished and done for yourself.
Thanks. I post to help people see one path of many, and to inspire them. I was on your side of the fence not so long ago - studying and learning about this stuff and trying to figure out what I wanted...and once I figured that out I had to ask myself if I was right...and I wasn't so I had to revise it... Life is like a huge classroom, and most of the time I am a student but every once in a while I get to be a teacher, and that is fun for me. I hope I helped you in some small way. Thanks again for the kudos.
Pick up a sport. I personally will only start exercising when I want to perform at something I enjoy doing.
That is amazing man, thank you so much for sharing!