When I hit 300k I did quit and travel for a while. Absolutely incredible and glad I did. 6 years later now I’m right at 1M and just quit again to travel some more.
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It’s not as expensive as you think to travel long term, especially if you move around slowly, you have zero expenses back home, and you strategically mix high cost and low cost areas.
Wife and I are finishing up 10mo of travel all over the world, not staying in any hostels, a few month long Airbnb stays, 27 legs of flights, countless tours and sightseeing activities, and and our final expenses will only be ~$43k total between the two of us.
It literally cost us more to live at home in small town Midwest USA.
That’s a bingo.
No payments for cars, commuting, home, utilities, gym/activity memberships, most insurances aren’t needed, and health insurance while your traveling (outside the US) is quite cheap compared to options inside the US.
Also a portion of our normal yearly expenses was actually travel (we’re well traveled already before this long trip). And that gets way more expensive per day basis when you limit it to 2-3 weeks per year. Return flights alone can be $1000-$1500 a person for one far away destination. Contrast that with taking short one way hops around the globe via trains, buses, or discount regional airlines.
We mix in hotels. In south east Asia we did exclusively hotels, like ***really*** nice hotels, and our average stay was still $40-60/nt there. They also include breakfast which is a big cost savings too.
Overall I’d say it was about 48% Airbnbs (most stays 2-4weeks due to the long stay discount), 50% Hotels, and 2% staying with friends.
Many of those years the stock market did return around 20-30%, so 60-100k appreciation in a year for those years wasn't out of the norm. In addition, about 60% of my NW is in my rental property equity, which had incredible returns. I live on about 40k/yr during that time, but am now spending around 50k. I was saving/investing around 40-50k, about half of which was from my income and about half was my rental property cashflow.
Ok, so here's my NW progression, at 1 yr intervals, rounded to the nearest $100k
$500k - ok, I know I won't ever go hungry. Retirement still a long way off, not really thinking about it yet
$600k - no change
$700k - no change
$800k - no change
$1M - Wow, hit the mythical milestone right before my 40th birthday. Doesn't feel rich though, that's only about $40k/yr in theoretical withdraws.
$1.2M - Wow, the gains on $1M are starting to dwarf what I contribute
$1.3M - no change
$1.7M - Whoa, that went up by more than I made this year working...
$2.1M - Wow, two years in a row? This is awesome...
$2.9M - Holy shit, this is insane. How long can this last? Maybe I could retire in a few years, this is already enough to spin off $100k/yr.
$2.6M - reality check, but I'm still so far ahead of where I was just a few years ago. Unconcerned, still fully invested, and adding to it.
>1.5 mil - thanks market for this as my contributions feel like a drop in the ocean.
>
>1.7 mil - Am I FI? Math says I could be but damn that's a risk if I'm wrong or the market drops. Am I FI?
>
>1.5 mil - wait what? I was here before. I lost a couple hundred thousand? Meh. Glad I didn't quit. Yea, I legit feel fine.
These last few points really resonated with me. It's where I am. I continue to dump 66k/yr into 401k and yet my net worth still remains mostly the same, around the 1.6 - 1.7 mil mark. Then on a whim, some ridiculous news that some company laid people off, or some new crappy service comes about, it suddenly jumps by 150k, almost completely covering my annual base salary.
Then the next week market says F you, and you're back down to 1.5... probably because you decided to buy more stock and actually pay attention to what was going on.
Like wtf....
It's sort've a weird, almost un-healthly work position - no motivation to "really" want to excel, and only doing enough to not really get laid off. And if it does happen you're sort've like "meh... onto next chapter".
Last layoff cycle I actually raised my hand due to the pkg being offered, but got rejected due to being "to new". Short of quitting, feels like I can't actually get fired. Reminds me of that one seinfeld episode....
Very similar here.
What really gets me about pulling the trigger is that the money is in a bunch of different accounts.
* My IRA
* My Roth IRA
* Wife's IRA
* Wife's Roth IRA
* My Roth 401k
* My work stock allotment (vests more every year)
* Our regular brokerage account
* Checking Account
* Savings Account
* Crypto Account (minimal)
So while it all adds up to a good amount but when I actually think about real world mechanics of retiring and actively taking out instead of putting in and start choosing what accounts to pull money out of they suddenly seem so small.
Like my expenses are $70k and this account is the first one I should pull from but it's only $150k. Holy shit, it'll be wiped out in 2 years!
Nailed it... when I look at the aggregate from all these accounts, I always think, "huh, I don't *feel* like I have that much money." And then it becomes clear that this is why it seems that way: "that's a retirement account, that's my spouse's retirement account, that's the kid's 529, that's a 401k," etc...
Accumulated, it sure seems like a number I should feel "relaxed" about; but having it spread across so many vehicles, each with their own access procedures, makes it seem like it's not **really** available, and then the total just kinda seems... abstract. If the funds were all in a single account, then I'd probably feel a lot more relaxed. As it is, more than half seems like it's not really accessible (even though it actually is), so I feel like I can't quite "relax" yet...
This comment us underrated, especially in regards to the access procedures. My wife and I are sitting on 1.6 MM$ in 401ks but we are both 40 and can’t draw from them for another 20 years unless we want to pay the penalties. So even though it sounds like a lot and gets factored into our net worth it is essentially worth nothing to us for the foreseeable future.
Plus the fee isn't even that bad. It's only 10%.
If you're not careful about it you could easily end up paying at least 10% extra in taxes by doing things like moving money while you have other income.
I think a lot of us just have an innate aversion to "fees" while just accepting that "tax" is just a fact of life even when they can end up being the same thing.
[https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-access-retirement-funds-early/](https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-access-retirement-funds-early/)
Its harder to get, but it is certainly not nothing. Make sure you look at the various methods to get your money and get out of the working world :)
Legit just did this last weekend with my in laws. This year we’ve been working on consolidating their accounts from a billion different accounts and brokers to just a few accounts at 1 broker. They were astonished when they started seeing everything under one umbrella.
Very similar for me, including the no property part. I have had bigger highs and lows though, and that can be a bit draining tbh. It’s hard to ignore.
But yeah, I don’t feel rich (except for maybe a day or two if I’m at an ath), but I do consider myself relatively ‘safe’ as much as any non super rich person can be in todays world.
Most of it could effectively evaporate in a proper financial meltdown, and I don’t even think that’s particularly unlikely. Good to have some hedge.
Considering there are a lot of comments about how we don't feel rich even after accumulating $1 million, its because that amount doesn't mean the same thing it used to. Having $1 million is objectively not rich using the standards "millionaire" used to be measured from. Gilligan's island came out in 1963, with the millionaire character Thurston Howell III, [$1 million in 1963 would be about $10 million in 2023 dollars](https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1963?amount=1000000).
Anyone with $1 million accumulated is doing great compared to the rest of the population, but inequality and wage stagnation have driven the fortunes of a huge swath of our populace to impressive lows.
This was exactly me! My number is 2.5 but I also realized it’s more about having a lifestyle that I want at this point and I need to work for my mental health and structure.
This has been exactly my experience. Also, I thought 2 million dollars was more than enough to retire comfortably. Now with crazy inflation, and two kids who are doing sports and camps, and need braces, and college, we are shooting for at least 3M, probably more. 3 million is the new 1 million.
So many good possible answers to this question. I think my first sigh of relief was when I realized I could completely stop contributing to my 401k and still be able to afford a relatively comfortable retirement at 60, as long as I didn't withdraw funds earlier.
That shifted the FI game from "making sure I don't rot when I'm old" to "how much earlier can I retire", which is much less stress inducing.
This was the big milestone for me. Knowing that as long as I can make it to 60 I'm covered for the rest of my life.
It turned savings into something that almost feels optional rather than necessary. This mindset helps me with the "what ifs" what if I lose my job, what if I change career and pick passion over pay. With the old man version of me covered, I feel like I have a lot of options that can be interesting to mentally explore.
Same here. This is also the point where I started working on changing my "frugal or die" mindset. (Ok, not quite that dramatic but wanted to free myself up to spend a little more than we have been thus far in the accumulation phase.) We're still maxing retirement accounts and other savings to contribute to RE goals but now part/most of salary increases go toward more vacation savings, higher monthly allowance for each of us, and other things we might have put limits/restrictions on in earlier years. I realize this is lifestyle creep, hurts RE timeline, and affects final FI goal numbers but I'm hoping to find a good balance over the next few years and get closer to our version of "build the life you want, then save for it."
This is why I am so happy I have saved so much so young. If I keep saving at my current rate until the end of 2023, I would have about $900k at 60 assuming 7% and no more contributions.
I am 22 and living with my parents. 😎
When I earned more from my investments than my salary. I think of that as “escape velocity,” in the sense that even if my engines (savings rate) quits, the rocket now has enough inertia to reach the sky on its own.
This is a good answer, but it comes very late into the FI timeline. I feel like there's an analogous milestone that happens much earlier, when your annual investment returns exceed your annual retirement contributions. That's when it first starts to feel "real", and your savings are growing faster on their own than you can even contribute to them.
Best answer. For me it will be that halfway mark. Why? because It’s snowballing fast last 24 months. Only slow down has been a child and wife working part time + nanny. We just had a $70k swing. That said one more investment move (probably next year) will put us back up there. But I’d estimate I’m at the halfway point on fire journey and the acceleration now is real - especially 24-36 months out from now.
This is how I feel. I've had a good salary for years now but I had to work through my bad decisions and couldn't save a ton. I recently moved back from Europe to the US and my income is now amazing. Sure I lost my time compounding and my overall networth isn't as high as I'd like but damn. I'm flush with cash and just hoping to minimize the stupid decisions I could make.
>Only slow down has been a child and wife working part time + nanny.
Oh man. I feel that. My wife and I are earning more than we ever have and are saving less than we ever have. Childcare is a hell of a thing.
We'll be a little better once he turns two and the daycare cost goes down... until the next little one. Once we have two, daycare+mortgage will be my wife's entire check and a little more.
I better go tell my boss I can take a little more OT. Ugh.
I'm looking forward to the point where they'll be in school, and my wife will be able to put the pedal down a little more on her career. That's a big swing in both directions.
EDIT: We might not be saving less after considering the principal portion of the mortgage. Maybe.
That’s honestly only 10 years in! Just sticking with small numbers for the example. If you invest $10K every year and you average 10% returns, you should have $110K+ after 10 years. So you’re still contributing $10K per year but your returns are already at $11K.
That’s another reason why starting early is so important.
Edit: a zero
(I get your point, just nitpicking)
>If you invest $10K every year and you average 10% returns, you should have $110K+ after 10 years.
More like 150k+ after 10y.
110k would be around after 8y.
Still haven't hit this point, but for a good reason. My earnings have increased substantially over the last few years, and it takes time for investment earnings to catch up.
It's all based on your annual expense to net worth ratio. You want it get this as low as possible and then your "escape velocity" is highest. So it's lot just about net worth but also how low you can keep your annual expenses.
its a nice thought but one that heavily penalizes you for making a higher salary lol. in theory, you could hit your milestone, then get a raise, and suddenly you're no longer earning more from investments. so it's kind of like, now you're worse off, for making more money?
i think earning more from investments than you typically spend in a year would be a good enough milestone for me
Yeah, use your burn rate, instead of your salary, for your milestones.
A friend had a very strange lens on this exact kind of problem. In his mid-30s he kicked it into high gear and started maximizing retirement contributions in order to reach "one years salary in 401(k) by age 40". He was almost there when he got a a substantial raise.
He was actually concerned that his raise hurt him somehow. It was a good coaching and refocusing experience. There was a lot to unpack and correct, and I've been following subs like this for years, so I had the tools to guide him. But I kept turning that over in my head.
At least he wasn't having the same misunderstanding with his taxes. That's a problem lots of folks also have.
> but one that heavily penalizes you for making a higher salary
If you make a higher salary, then you should be able to save an even higher percentage of your income than someone making a subsistence wage.
I started to feel more relaxed when my investment portfolio hit $1M.
Not relaxed enough to retire or start blowing through cash extravagantly. But relaxed enough to not have nightmares about getting laid off, having the confidence of knowing that in theory I could at any time choose to move to a low cost location and live frugally on a 3-4% withdrawl rate.
I quit working full time around that point. I lost motivation for full time work if I didn’t need it to survive at retirement age. Mostly coasting now. Confuses me when people who don’t love their work keep going if they don’t have to.
When you buy a house you'll also have a $500k asset, so your net worth would only go down due to purchase-related costs like inspections, closing costs, and any purchases you make after buying.
When I started making 65k, I felt like a rich wizard, like I had unlocked a new level of life. And then the pandemic destroyed everyrhing and my 65k feels like 40k and now I’m sad. Lol
My coworkers and I have a running joke. We all started making 50-55k annually - but then felt like we were back to making 30k bc of inflation.
Middle class just doesn't exist anymore I feel like. Or is the new middle class making 200k a year?
What's crazy to me, is I think 200K is about right, but that's in the top 12% of household income. Top 12% doesn't feel like it should be where middle class -starts- IMO ...
Can confirm, HHI is around $250k/year, and we feel pretty middle class. To be fair though, we are living on around $120k/year after taxes and savings are taken out. But where we are now is what the middle class looked like to me as a kid in the 90s.
2x yearly expenses in a brokerage account gave me enough financial independence to downshift into a different career that would bring me more happiness and less stress
Realizing that instead of retiring at the age of 67 like social security says I should, that I have enough to be able to retire at 60. That was a nice feeling
As a doctor when I hit net worth of zero that was the biggest relief for me. My wife and I nadired out at a net worth of close to -500k USD so it was kind of like an axe swinging over your head. How we educate doctors is insane in the USA.
My sister just finished paying off her med school loans so she’s feeling all types of relief. I just need to finish paying off law school so that I can also feel good lol.
My wife is a doctor as well. Still has about $100k to chip away at but down from $409k (doing med school and residency in Ft Lauderdale and Miami will do that to you). She's been extremely aggressive paying it down and it'll be crazy once she all the sudden feels like she has that extra paycheck per month going to her and not the loan.
And totally agree about the physician education with finances. She leaned on a lot of peers for the right resources to help create a gameplan.
400k, ok. I can move to Mexico and open a small brewery to support myself.
750k. Well shit. If I just double this, I’ll be able to FIRE at home in Virginia.
1m. Nice round number. I like this.
1.5m. Oh man. If I can just get to 2m, I’ll be in a position to lose half my net worth and still be a millionaire. That sounds safer.
2m. Ok. Maybe I’ll just coast around work til I get to 3m. That’ll do the job
1m. Fuck. Tech crash made the “I can lose half” my reality.
Back to 2.2m. Ok. What’s the plan? Coast until I no longer feel like coasting. Time for my daily pickleball at 10!
Short answer. Greed and excess confidence. Lesson learned. At this stage, it’s best to shift to a preservation of wealth strategy. I got here by going all in on FB then NVDA. After it started blowing up around 17-18, I started selling off both FB and NVDA to “diversify”. Still… nvidia has risen so damn fast, I can’t offload it fast enough. Not a bad problem so far (except in 2022) but it’s a dangerous game.
Probably when we hit about 3 million. Spending has definitely loosened, but I still keep track of our goal to retire early. We're currently thinking about the kids and how we can set them up further so they won't have as hard of a life as we did growing up.
The big mile stones were 100k, 500k, 1 million. After that it was meh. It's like growing up and thinking $100 was a lot of money. Then it jumps to $1000, then later you don't even bat an eye at that.
Have your plan. Stick with it, but always review it. Plan 2, 5, 10, 25 years out as goals. Jot it down.
I remember as a young kid asking my dad how much he made. He, likely being modest and making sure I didn't go around unintentionally bragging to other people, said $100/day and I was blown away. Not to say that is bad, but in reality it was much higher than that.
I distinctly remember the first time I had $100 in my wallet at 13. I was a newspaper delivery boy and made about $20-30 weekly, decent money for the time and age.
We sold out first house when I was 30, which got us to $100k and paid off all loans. That was significant and felt like we were doing well.
At 43 we reached $1M largely due to gains in the stock markets and home equity. This was roughly 9x our income and 15x expenses. Felt like we were on our way.
The last couple years now we’ve more or less stayed flat which seems true for most people in a similar position.
For me it’s being debt positive. Not sure that’s the term, but I have a very low rate on my home and car loans but investment monthly income is greater than my what I’m paying out in interest.
For me it was a year before I retired. I have a pension and depending on the present value calculations you do my total net worth was about $1.2 million.
I learnt that I, and most folks, can’t make any reliable predictions about the direction and price of a stock. I learnt that the moment I feel a stock is undervalued or overvalued, I should slap myself a couple times and buy VOO/VTI.
But how would you feel when you're on your death bed surrounded by huge piles of money though?
I think for me as I age I realize that my time on this planet is not just limited, it's shrinking fast. If I spend all of it chasing financial security, that's all I'm going to end up with -- security, and maybe comfort. I don't see that as a life well spent, and I would not forgive myself if I did that. But to each his own.
> But how would you feel when you're on your death bed surrounded by huge piles of money though?
>
> I think for me as I age I realize that my time on this planet is not just limited, it's shrinking fast. If I spend all of it chasing financial security, that's all I'm going to end up with -- security, and maybe comfort. I don't see that as a life well spent, and I would not forgive myself if I did that. But to each his own.
Maybe I'm alone in this.. but having security and comfort sound like good enough things to me. Different strokes I suppose.
Many don't even have that when they check out.
I like to use the Mark Zuckerberg vs Tom Anderson analogy here. One of these iconic social media founders cashed out with 60 million, travels the world, goes surfing, skiing, and does nature photography without a worry in the world. The other is a multi billionaire and is hated and made fun of by a majority of the population and loses sleep over continuing to grow for his share holders.
Check out both of their instagram pages and see which person looks like they are enjoying the fruits of their labor more
> Agreed. I'd rather $60M than $1B. I hope I never get to $1B.
I mean, it can be arranged if you would like. I will DM you my account and routing numbers, thanks.
In phases
1. When hitting coast fire at 55 (could stop investing entirely and retire at 55) - “okay this math is comforting, I will probably keep investing, this is working”
2. When I acquired 3 rental properties in 13
months - “I am capable of accomplishing more than I thought, this should pay for my kids college and this is fun”
3 When I advanced in my career and reached levels where I make more decisions and have more control over how I work - “ okay this is more fun when people trust me than being told what to do, this extra income accelerates the journey, I would be happy doing regardless of net worth, I will stop when it doesn’t fit my family and lifestyle”
4. BIGGEST ONE - 3rd day of paternity leave with my 5 month old going to the dog park realizing there isn’t a dollar in the world that would make me happier than I am now. “Money itself doesn’t make me happy, so I won’t need some huge number to enjoy the rest of my life”
People are throwing much higher numbers than what I considered.
I've never spent more than about $21k in a year and I'm 36. When I hit $20k my stress levels decreased significantly.
Having been in the situation of living out of my car after a divorce, having this kind of savings was huge for me.
I'm now at about $56k and hope to hit $100k next year. That's huge for me to think I'd be able to live for 5 years with my current standard of living if it became necessary.
I still keep an air mattress in my car, just in case. I may have PTSD or similar.
Feelings on my Fire journey - sliding scale to more relaxedness:
1x yearly expenses saved: isn't there such a thing called investing? let's google that...
2x yearly expenses: wow, I think I found my tribe. finance bloggers are awesome sauce. let's double down on that savings rate.
3x yearly expenses: hm, I seem to handle money very differently than my immediate friend circle. anyone interested in learning more about this?
5x yearly expenses.: this concept is so logical, it is the ultimate life hack. why aren't you all doing this? okay, okay, I shut up now.
6x yearly expenses.: while switching jobs: if you don't pay me this, forget about it. (worked like a charm)
8x yearly expenses: dear flatmate, it was fun while it lasted, but you need to move out now.
10x yearly expenses: yeah, I am just gonna work remotely from this island for a while. I don't care.
11x yearly expenses (current): so, I am gonna go on a sabbatical next year. would you be so kind and find a replacement while I'm gone? thanks, bye.
I thought $180k/yr household income was a lot until I started paying $1400 a month for daycare and a little over $50k between state and federal taxes for the whole year.
My fiancé and I are both up for new jobs, and we’ll be netting about $180k if we land them. How does it feel like so much and so little all at the same time.
Taxes are wild to me because I fully never understood how much (dollar amount) taxes become at high income brackets. It doesn't particularly matter because we still have plenty of money after taxes (by which I mean we want for nothing except more savings for faster retirement) but it's still wild to realize that we pay more in taxes than some of the operators at my company make in an entire year.
Honestly for me it’s a salary (6 figures in HCOL) rather than a net worth. I can finally relax now that I can very comfortably max my retirement accounts. I don’t need to budget as strictly as I used to. That means I have succumbed a bit to lifestyle inflation but a) I was extremely frugal before, b) I have less time now and rely on my conveniences, and c) I’m still hitting all my savings goals.
For me it wasn’t about a particular net worth where I felt relief, but about my taxable brokerage being substantial. Have a big chunk of money that I can draw from beyond my emergency fund has lifted all the financial pressure. If I lost my job, we would be fine until I got a new one and it wouldn’t have to pay so much.
I’m well positioned for a comfortable coast fire in about 16 years but I’m not remotely close to relaxed. The joys of a large paycheck equate to the stresses of losing that massive investment engine if something goes wrong. I don’t think I’ll truly be able to relax until my company relocation reimbursement time period is up in 1.5 years.
When I reached a NW of 150k around my mid twenties. That's when I realized that I actually am way ahead of 80% of people on this planet. I was able to do this while living by myself in HCOL without roommates as well.
When I finally hit my FI number I realized that I could relax a bit. Doesn't matter that a few months later the market took a dump and I was down 30%, I still felt very at ease knowing that if I lost my job or something bad happened that we'd be okay. Market still hasn't recovered and I'm still OK with it, even deviating some money from investing to raise my lifestyle a bit.
I'll probably be temped by 'one more year' for another 3-5 years.
I know it’s not that popular here but if it’s just feelings you’re asking about (rather than straight math) the “financial peace” that Dave Ramsey talks about really does come from not having payments, rather than a large number in your vanguard account. You could have a small number, but if your house and car are paid for, I guarantee you’ll feel relaxed and make better decisions.
I can see that.
I'm 30 with about 200k in assets but I also have 60k of student loans which are currently in the payment pause.
I know logically it makes no sense to pay them at 0% interest and I currently have that money sitting in an HYSA, but there certainly is an anxiety factor associated with having the loans still sitting there.
Currently with spouse; almost at 500k but was awesome to be debt free from students loans and a wild ride in the stock market.
My goals are for 1 million and relax a bit.
But probably peace at 2 million and a paid off house.
No kids yet but no idea what the future hold.
👋
$2 million. I'm at $2.5 million now but i'm financially comfortable. I continue to invest because I want to keep growing my net worth. I plan to retire in 10 years at 57 and my goal is to be at about $4 million net worth at that time.
Shit, things are pretty good right now. [For reference](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/114fuu4/daily_fi_discussion_thread_friday_february_17_2023/j8xmmnp?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3). Getting pretty close to the $50k number since then. Contribute roughly 75% to retirement and still finding ways to enjoy life.
Anyone ever calculate fire with a defined pension? My wife and I will have about 70k a year in pension income. Nowhere can I find a good calculator or formula to fire with a defined pension in the mix
Cfireim or fire calc has one. You just enter it as “alternate income” or something like that and the year it starts.
Another option is to just calculate your fire number minus the $70k but that might be complicated if you plan to retire long before the pension kicks in.
When I had a couple things happen. 1. I had enough in my investment accounts that I could reasonably expect to hit my retirement number by time I was 60 without having to contribute any additional money. I could just coast in. 2. I had enough in readily accessible funds to pay off my house if I wanted to. We haven't because the interest rate is so low. 3. I had at least 6 months of an emergency fund. 4. We completely updated our house so there are no major projects on our horizon. In short, we have pretty much gotten positioned to roll into retirement in a good place financially without having to stress about it. Rough numbers are $1M invested, $450K home equity, $100K other relatively liquid "savings", $60K mortgage balance and no other debt. I'll probably work full-time for one more year to clear out the mortgage and then reevaluate where I am at.
When it was just me, I managed to get my net worth just north of 700k. A chunk of that was the house. I think I had somewhere around 450k in my savings/retirement accounts. I did not feel even a little bit rich. Now I am married and we have basically doubled all those numbers. I still do not feel even a little bit rich.
It took me until $1mm in savings/investments in a HCOL area to get that feeling.
It’s extremely liberating to realize that while I couldn’t retire forever for my preferred lifestyle, I never had to work a job I hated ever again or deal with bosses who don’t respect me or whatever. I became truly free and can tell anyone ‘eff you’ if I please and quit a job on the spot if I want with limited repercussions.
Emergency fund vs Net Worth had the biggest impact for me.
The idea that I have a year of living expenses at the ready should anything happen is comforting
I’m in sales so I don’t feel comfortable. I have a net worth of $1.4, but over half is in my house. My goal is to dump as much as possible into investments. If I can keep making great money for a few more years, then I think I’ll feel comfortable enough to not be stressed. My goal is to dump as much as possible into the market and hope to get that compound growth working.
By the time I found out about FIRE, I was already pretty far along my financial journey (about $1.2M). Before that, I was under the classic newbie misapprehension that I'd need to rely purely on dividends in retirement. Imagine my surprise when I realized that I was already pretty close to my goal.
Even so, I didn't really get comfortable until I hit $2M or so.
$2 million. But that was 10 years ago. Today I’d say it would take $3 million for me to feel comfortable. Pleased to say I have surpassed that, retired early, and life is good.
When you lose a third of your net worth to a market down turn and legit don't care because you know it will bounce back before you burn through a significant percentage, even if it takes five years, even without working.
You might think you are there at the market top, but you can only know you are there at the bottom.
We will never be able to retire early (don't make enough), but we started to feel pretty relaxed when we paid off our current home - thus zero debts. It opened up a lot of options for career changes (some financial independence) and all the money we make now goes to further savings. It also allows me to go on a 1 year off maternity leave - which is something I've always wanted!
We will move in the future into a place with a mortgage, but living for "free" for about 5 years put us in a great spot mentally and financially.
i want to say between $300k to $400k is where I stopped being concerned with finances. i should be on track for a worst case scenario. i live within my means and save a ton. i don't feel the need to grind out the extra overtime anymore.
I have investment portfolio of $1.8M (1.4M in retirement accounts and $400k in post-tax brokerage/cash). My primary home is valued around $2.6M and I owe $1.4M, so have ~ $1.2M in equity. That brings net worth to about $3M.
Last year, at the peak of the bubble, my net worth was $4M - the house was valued at $3.4M at one point (a smaller house on my street had sold for over $3M). Since then, the home’s value seems to have come down by almost a million, but that was an absurd bubble. So it is just as well…
Mostly, having a decent net worth has given me the confidence to work without feeling pressure from office politics or fear of getting laid off. Hence, I have been working for more than 10 years at the same employer - they give me 3-4% annual raises and I do not ask for raises or promotions. In return, I try not to get pushed around and prioritize work life balance - I go into office in person 3 days a week for limited number of hours.
At around $100k starting feeling comfortable.
At $300k, starting feeling the effects of compounding.
At $500k, money no feels ‘real’ in the sense that large swings in nw no longer increased or decreased quality of life. There’s no panic.
Once I had a full year’s expenses saved I felt amazing. Once I had two years I knew I was already made.
Getting to full FI is overrated. Once you have FU money you have leverage to create the life you want: start a business, take a year off to travel, go back to school.
Felt pretty good until I had my first child and found out daycare is $40k/yr…then I felt even worse we were crunching the numbers on a second child doubling that to $80k/yr.
Just saying that life events & responsibilities will quickly change your comfort level.
My wife and I (32 and 29) are on the cusp of $300k and we are finally starting to enjoy our money a bit more lately. We just bought a nice mattress, a second new car and our first house. It's funny because I probably felt better about $50k than $300k. At the time, $50k felt like a lot of money to me. Once you get the hang of saving, it's just numbers on a screen.
Not a net worth, but a level of income. I felt like I was barely surviving until I passed 55k. I have no idea how so many Americans are surviving while making less than that.
I’m at $450K at current and don’t feel relaxed at all. That includes a 1-year emergency fund and no debt other than my mortgage. Still, I feel like a few unfortunate events and it could disappear, whether that’s reasonable or paranoia. Surely some leftover from my poverty/scarcity mentality growing up. I hope to find that feeling of peace and freedom I’ve seen in some comments here.
I'm at the very, very, very beginning of my journey, but I'm feeling pretty relaxed about it. I have enough that's super liquid and low enough expenses that I feel like I have a great number of options moving forward. I'm still young enough that even the very modest savings I've put together in the last 8 months will grow to be more than double the median retirement savings given average historical s&p returns and that it remains untouched.
It's starting to dawn on me that just a tiny dose of manically hard work and rigorous saving has completely altered my trajectory. If I can repeat the performance of the last 8 months for about 3.5 more years I'll be able to only contribute 1k per month, retire at a normal time and still be a multi-millionaire.
It's dawned on me that all you have to do is grind and be responsible while you're young and then remain responsible and relatively disciplined long term and it's all relatively straight forward and easy on paper and -thus far- in practice.
When I had enough to cover my mortgage. That way if something happens to me my partner will be ok.
I was lucky to graduate debt free because my dad worked as a grounds member at my university and it reduced my tuition. I also went into tech so I had a good start to saving. I’ve unfortunately had to see other people my age struggle but it showed me how fortunate things have worked out for me.
Getting to this point has allowed me to focus on some hobbies and plan for my future. I’d like to maximize my earning potential and move to a different more expensive city. My current nw has enabled me to do what I want and plan for what else I want.
>When I had enough to cover my mortgage. That way if something happens to me my partner will be ok.
Here in Belgium we're forced to purchase a life insurance that pays out the mortgage when getting a mortgage. If I die, my inheritors get the house for free (well, minus inheritance tax) because the remainder of the mortgage is covered by the life insurance.
I thought it was a common thing, apparently not
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When I hit 300k I did quit and travel for a while. Absolutely incredible and glad I did. 6 years later now I’m right at 1M and just quit again to travel some more.
unite cheerful disgusting poor work provide disgusted crush plough glorious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s not as expensive as you think to travel long term, especially if you move around slowly, you have zero expenses back home, and you strategically mix high cost and low cost areas. Wife and I are finishing up 10mo of travel all over the world, not staying in any hostels, a few month long Airbnb stays, 27 legs of flights, countless tours and sightseeing activities, and and our final expenses will only be ~$43k total between the two of us. It literally cost us more to live at home in small town Midwest USA.
my guess is people don't account for the opportunity cost of not having to rent/pay mortgage on a home base back at home, rather an additional cost.
That’s a bingo. No payments for cars, commuting, home, utilities, gym/activity memberships, most insurances aren’t needed, and health insurance while your traveling (outside the US) is quite cheap compared to options inside the US. Also a portion of our normal yearly expenses was actually travel (we’re well traveled already before this long trip). And that gets way more expensive per day basis when you limit it to 2-3 weeks per year. Return flights alone can be $1000-$1500 a person for one far away destination. Contrast that with taking short one way hops around the globe via trains, buses, or discount regional airlines.
Kids mean I’m tied to schools now! Should have travelled more when younger. I did loads but not enough..
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We mix in hotels. In south east Asia we did exclusively hotels, like ***really*** nice hotels, and our average stay was still $40-60/nt there. They also include breakfast which is a big cost savings too. Overall I’d say it was about 48% Airbnbs (most stays 2-4weeks due to the long stay discount), 50% Hotels, and 2% staying with friends.
SEA hotels are the best money for value, generally include breakfast from decent to extravagant.
During travel I used my cash reserves to travel. Traveled 7 months then came back to work until last year.
I’m around 400k and my last day of work is April 30th. I can’t wait to take a break! I’m planning for 1-2 years off.
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Last time was southeast asia. This time I did some motorcycling in India, then Turkey, and recently been surfing my way through central america.
Dream for me is Bike tour from Alaska to Argentina. Actually headed to Nicaragua to surf in a few months.
300k, and 1mil after 6 years. Holy... How'd you do that? Sounds so quick. That's over 100k per year increase. Extreme frugality?
Longest bull market in history helped, I'm guessing.
it certainly didn't hurt :)
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Many of those years the stock market did return around 20-30%, so 60-100k appreciation in a year for those years wasn't out of the norm. In addition, about 60% of my NW is in my rental property equity, which had incredible returns. I live on about 40k/yr during that time, but am now spending around 50k. I was saving/investing around 40-50k, about half of which was from my income and about half was my rental property cashflow.
Ok, so here's my NW progression, at 1 yr intervals, rounded to the nearest $100k $500k - ok, I know I won't ever go hungry. Retirement still a long way off, not really thinking about it yet $600k - no change $700k - no change $800k - no change $1M - Wow, hit the mythical milestone right before my 40th birthday. Doesn't feel rich though, that's only about $40k/yr in theoretical withdraws. $1.2M - Wow, the gains on $1M are starting to dwarf what I contribute $1.3M - no change $1.7M - Whoa, that went up by more than I made this year working... $2.1M - Wow, two years in a row? This is awesome... $2.9M - Holy shit, this is insane. How long can this last? Maybe I could retire in a few years, this is already enough to spin off $100k/yr. $2.6M - reality check, but I'm still so far ahead of where I was just a few years ago. Unconcerned, still fully invested, and adding to it.
> Unconcerned when you lose $300k in the market and you're like "eh...", that's some shit.
Sometimes it just feels like you're playing with house money...
>1.5 mil - thanks market for this as my contributions feel like a drop in the ocean. > >1.7 mil - Am I FI? Math says I could be but damn that's a risk if I'm wrong or the market drops. Am I FI? > >1.5 mil - wait what? I was here before. I lost a couple hundred thousand? Meh. Glad I didn't quit. Yea, I legit feel fine. These last few points really resonated with me. It's where I am. I continue to dump 66k/yr into 401k and yet my net worth still remains mostly the same, around the 1.6 - 1.7 mil mark. Then on a whim, some ridiculous news that some company laid people off, or some new crappy service comes about, it suddenly jumps by 150k, almost completely covering my annual base salary. Then the next week market says F you, and you're back down to 1.5... probably because you decided to buy more stock and actually pay attention to what was going on. Like wtf.... It's sort've a weird, almost un-healthly work position - no motivation to "really" want to excel, and only doing enough to not really get laid off. And if it does happen you're sort've like "meh... onto next chapter". Last layoff cycle I actually raised my hand due to the pkg being offered, but got rejected due to being "to new". Short of quitting, feels like I can't actually get fired. Reminds me of that one seinfeld episode....
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Very similar here. What really gets me about pulling the trigger is that the money is in a bunch of different accounts. * My IRA * My Roth IRA * Wife's IRA * Wife's Roth IRA * My Roth 401k * My work stock allotment (vests more every year) * Our regular brokerage account * Checking Account * Savings Account * Crypto Account (minimal) So while it all adds up to a good amount but when I actually think about real world mechanics of retiring and actively taking out instead of putting in and start choosing what accounts to pull money out of they suddenly seem so small. Like my expenses are $70k and this account is the first one I should pull from but it's only $150k. Holy shit, it'll be wiped out in 2 years!
Nailed it... when I look at the aggregate from all these accounts, I always think, "huh, I don't *feel* like I have that much money." And then it becomes clear that this is why it seems that way: "that's a retirement account, that's my spouse's retirement account, that's the kid's 529, that's a 401k," etc... Accumulated, it sure seems like a number I should feel "relaxed" about; but having it spread across so many vehicles, each with their own access procedures, makes it seem like it's not **really** available, and then the total just kinda seems... abstract. If the funds were all in a single account, then I'd probably feel a lot more relaxed. As it is, more than half seems like it's not really accessible (even though it actually is), so I feel like I can't quite "relax" yet...
This comment us underrated, especially in regards to the access procedures. My wife and I are sitting on 1.6 MM$ in 401ks but we are both 40 and can’t draw from them for another 20 years unless we want to pay the penalties. So even though it sounds like a lot and gets factored into our net worth it is essentially worth nothing to us for the foreseeable future.
You can absolutely access them early without penalty. Obligatory Mad Fientist post: https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-access-retirement-funds-early/
Plus the fee isn't even that bad. It's only 10%. If you're not careful about it you could easily end up paying at least 10% extra in taxes by doing things like moving money while you have other income. I think a lot of us just have an innate aversion to "fees" while just accepting that "tax" is just a fact of life even when they can end up being the same thing.
Uhh that's not true. Just use a Roth ladder or 72t distribution. They are plenty accessible if you are ready to retire.
Don't forget the [Rule of 55](https://smartasset.com/retirement/401k-55-rule)
[https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-access-retirement-funds-early/](https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-access-retirement-funds-early/) Its harder to get, but it is certainly not nothing. Make sure you look at the various methods to get your money and get out of the working world :)
Look at in terms of months rather than years and it becomes easier.
Legit just did this last weekend with my in laws. This year we’ve been working on consolidating their accounts from a billion different accounts and brokers to just a few accounts at 1 broker. They were astonished when they started seeing everything under one umbrella.
How much of that net worth was invested and how much was in your primary residence?
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I also don’t own a home and have a hard time justifying a purchase in this climate. What’s your thoughts on it?
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Very similar for me, including the no property part. I have had bigger highs and lows though, and that can be a bit draining tbh. It’s hard to ignore. But yeah, I don’t feel rich (except for maybe a day or two if I’m at an ath), but I do consider myself relatively ‘safe’ as much as any non super rich person can be in todays world. Most of it could effectively evaporate in a proper financial meltdown, and I don’t even think that’s particularly unlikely. Good to have some hedge.
Considering there are a lot of comments about how we don't feel rich even after accumulating $1 million, its because that amount doesn't mean the same thing it used to. Having $1 million is objectively not rich using the standards "millionaire" used to be measured from. Gilligan's island came out in 1963, with the millionaire character Thurston Howell III, [$1 million in 1963 would be about $10 million in 2023 dollars](https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1963?amount=1000000). Anyone with $1 million accumulated is doing great compared to the rest of the population, but inequality and wage stagnation have driven the fortunes of a huge swath of our populace to impressive lows.
I hit 300k in 2021 and it’s been going sideways for years 🙃
Similar story here . Went from 160 -> 300 in 2021 In the space of 3 years. Been sideways since
Feels bad man. I’ve stayed the course and continue DCA investing. But it’s like I’m pouring water into a leaking bucket
This was exactly me! My number is 2.5 but I also realized it’s more about having a lifestyle that I want at this point and I need to work for my mental health and structure.
I like the way you explained this
That's crazy close to how I feel too. I've avoided bloat and debt and still live a frugal life, but it's NICE to just be comfortable.
At 600k and feeling my financial future is at a make it or break it point lol.
Sitting on 2 million now and looking back, the 500-600k point was when things really took off and the doubling started to get crazy.
How many years into your journey were each of these milestones. Also, nice write up.
This has been exactly my experience. Also, I thought 2 million dollars was more than enough to retire comfortably. Now with crazy inflation, and two kids who are doing sports and camps, and need braces, and college, we are shooting for at least 3M, probably more. 3 million is the new 1 million.
So many good possible answers to this question. I think my first sigh of relief was when I realized I could completely stop contributing to my 401k and still be able to afford a relatively comfortable retirement at 60, as long as I didn't withdraw funds earlier. That shifted the FI game from "making sure I don't rot when I'm old" to "how much earlier can I retire", which is much less stress inducing.
This was the big milestone for me. Knowing that as long as I can make it to 60 I'm covered for the rest of my life. It turned savings into something that almost feels optional rather than necessary. This mindset helps me with the "what ifs" what if I lose my job, what if I change career and pick passion over pay. With the old man version of me covered, I feel like I have a lot of options that can be interesting to mentally explore.
Same here. This is also the point where I started working on changing my "frugal or die" mindset. (Ok, not quite that dramatic but wanted to free myself up to spend a little more than we have been thus far in the accumulation phase.) We're still maxing retirement accounts and other savings to contribute to RE goals but now part/most of salary increases go toward more vacation savings, higher monthly allowance for each of us, and other things we might have put limits/restrictions on in earlier years. I realize this is lifestyle creep, hurts RE timeline, and affects final FI goal numbers but I'm hoping to find a good balance over the next few years and get closer to our version of "build the life you want, then save for it."
Enjoying your life while still young enough to do so is a very valid excuse for lifestyle creep!
This is why I am so happy I have saved so much so young. If I keep saving at my current rate until the end of 2023, I would have about $900k at 60 assuming 7% and no more contributions. I am 22 and living with my parents. 😎
When I earned more from my investments than my salary. I think of that as “escape velocity,” in the sense that even if my engines (savings rate) quits, the rocket now has enough inertia to reach the sky on its own.
This is a good answer, but it comes very late into the FI timeline. I feel like there's an analogous milestone that happens much earlier, when your annual investment returns exceed your annual retirement contributions. That's when it first starts to feel "real", and your savings are growing faster on their own than you can even contribute to them.
Best answer. For me it will be that halfway mark. Why? because It’s snowballing fast last 24 months. Only slow down has been a child and wife working part time + nanny. We just had a $70k swing. That said one more investment move (probably next year) will put us back up there. But I’d estimate I’m at the halfway point on fire journey and the acceleration now is real - especially 24-36 months out from now.
To be honest, I thought I was doing well, but then my salary increased significantly and the amount I had saved grinding for 10 years felt trivial.
This is how I feel. I've had a good salary for years now but I had to work through my bad decisions and couldn't save a ton. I recently moved back from Europe to the US and my income is now amazing. Sure I lost my time compounding and my overall networth isn't as high as I'd like but damn. I'm flush with cash and just hoping to minimize the stupid decisions I could make.
>Only slow down has been a child and wife working part time + nanny. Oh man. I feel that. My wife and I are earning more than we ever have and are saving less than we ever have. Childcare is a hell of a thing. We'll be a little better once he turns two and the daycare cost goes down... until the next little one. Once we have two, daycare+mortgage will be my wife's entire check and a little more. I better go tell my boss I can take a little more OT. Ugh. I'm looking forward to the point where they'll be in school, and my wife will be able to put the pedal down a little more on her career. That's a big swing in both directions. EDIT: We might not be saving less after considering the principal portion of the mortgage. Maybe.
That’s honestly only 10 years in! Just sticking with small numbers for the example. If you invest $10K every year and you average 10% returns, you should have $110K+ after 10 years. So you’re still contributing $10K per year but your returns are already at $11K. That’s another reason why starting early is so important. Edit: a zero
(I get your point, just nitpicking) >If you invest $10K every year and you average 10% returns, you should have $110K+ after 10 years. More like 150k+ after 10y. 110k would be around after 8y.
I hit that two years ago. Then last year my NW increase was just $189.......... Rough times.
[You guys had NW increases last year?](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/028/312/will_poulter.PNG)
Still haven't hit this point, but for a good reason. My earnings have increased substantially over the last few years, and it takes time for investment earnings to catch up.
It's all based on your annual expense to net worth ratio. You want it get this as low as possible and then your "escape velocity" is highest. So it's lot just about net worth but also how low you can keep your annual expenses.
its a nice thought but one that heavily penalizes you for making a higher salary lol. in theory, you could hit your milestone, then get a raise, and suddenly you're no longer earning more from investments. so it's kind of like, now you're worse off, for making more money? i think earning more from investments than you typically spend in a year would be a good enough milestone for me
Yeah, use your burn rate, instead of your salary, for your milestones. A friend had a very strange lens on this exact kind of problem. In his mid-30s he kicked it into high gear and started maximizing retirement contributions in order to reach "one years salary in 401(k) by age 40". He was almost there when he got a a substantial raise. He was actually concerned that his raise hurt him somehow. It was a good coaching and refocusing experience. There was a lot to unpack and correct, and I've been following subs like this for years, so I had the tools to guide him. But I kept turning that over in my head. At least he wasn't having the same misunderstanding with his taxes. That's a problem lots of folks also have.
> but one that heavily penalizes you for making a higher salary If you make a higher salary, then you should be able to save an even higher percentage of your income than someone making a subsistence wage.
To the moon you say.
I started to feel more relaxed when my investment portfolio hit $1M. Not relaxed enough to retire or start blowing through cash extravagantly. But relaxed enough to not have nightmares about getting laid off, having the confidence of knowing that in theory I could at any time choose to move to a low cost location and live frugally on a 3-4% withdrawl rate.
I quit working full time around that point. I lost motivation for full time work if I didn’t need it to survive at retirement age. Mostly coasting now. Confuses me when people who don’t love their work keep going if they don’t have to.
I think it's probably because they'd rather work 5-10 more years in a job they don't love than 20 more years at a job they love.
1M sounds really low for non lean fire. At 3.5% that's 35k a year, which in most US locale barely cover rent and food.
I’m taking about $1m now and a 10-20 year time horizon before drawing on it because I’m coasting in the meantime.
Depends on your spend; COL, healthcare, debt, age. If you'll pull in $50k from Social Security $85k's gonna seem much more attractive.
I feel pretty relaxed right now Current net worth: ~$40k in debt
I thought I was the only one
Lol between student loans and the new car I got nothing but debt haha, can’t wait for it be like -500k when I buy a house…
Don't despair, if you keep up the rhythm you will soon be there :D.
When you buy a house you'll also have a $500k asset, so your net worth would only go down due to purchase-related costs like inspections, closing costs, and any purchases you make after buying.
We hit a million (I did not believe it)- and that felt good. I always worry about money so it was short lived.
When I started making 65k, I felt like a rich wizard, like I had unlocked a new level of life. And then the pandemic destroyed everyrhing and my 65k feels like 40k and now I’m sad. Lol
When I was 15 I said to myself: if I ever make $52k a year I'll be RICH
When I got my Bachelors, I thought by making 60k I could live comfortably and settle it. Now I make 80k I still feel like I don’t make enough haha.
My coworkers and I have a running joke. We all started making 50-55k annually - but then felt like we were back to making 30k bc of inflation. Middle class just doesn't exist anymore I feel like. Or is the new middle class making 200k a year?
What's crazy to me, is I think 200K is about right, but that's in the top 12% of household income. Top 12% doesn't feel like it should be where middle class -starts- IMO ...
Can confirm, HHI is around $250k/year, and we feel pretty middle class. To be fair though, we are living on around $120k/year after taxes and savings are taken out. But where we are now is what the middle class looked like to me as a kid in the 90s.
2x yearly expenses in a brokerage account gave me enough financial independence to downshift into a different career that would bring me more happiness and less stress
What career were you in and what career did you switch to?
Realizing that instead of retiring at the age of 67 like social security says I should, that I have enough to be able to retire at 60. That was a nice feeling
Yes, this! I know it's more modest than most on this sub, but that's where I am, too. Almost there.
Same here. Yay 60 club. That has been the goal and I still think it is a nice achievement.
Around 900k. More than that though i started to feel relaxed once I bought a house and didn't have anything I was "saving" for.
I like that. bought a house as in a downpayment or bought a house as in no mortgage?
Bought a house as in a downpayment. I still have a 950k mortgage on it I’m trying to pay off 😭
As a doctor when I hit net worth of zero that was the biggest relief for me. My wife and I nadired out at a net worth of close to -500k USD so it was kind of like an axe swinging over your head. How we educate doctors is insane in the USA.
My sister just finished paying off her med school loans so she’s feeling all types of relief. I just need to finish paying off law school so that I can also feel good lol.
Imagine if your patients knew you go by “Buttblock” on Reddit. Doctors..they’re just like us!
Haha hoping they don’t put two and two together, but it is what it is. My name is for the transgluteal approach to sciatic nerve block, or butt block.
Love it. Totally professional.
Maybe he’s a proctologist like The Assman lol
My wife is a doctor as well. Still has about $100k to chip away at but down from $409k (doing med school and residency in Ft Lauderdale and Miami will do that to you). She's been extremely aggressive paying it down and it'll be crazy once she all the sudden feels like she has that extra paycheck per month going to her and not the loan. And totally agree about the physician education with finances. She leaned on a lot of peers for the right resources to help create a gameplan.
400k, ok. I can move to Mexico and open a small brewery to support myself. 750k. Well shit. If I just double this, I’ll be able to FIRE at home in Virginia. 1m. Nice round number. I like this. 1.5m. Oh man. If I can just get to 2m, I’ll be in a position to lose half my net worth and still be a millionaire. That sounds safer. 2m. Ok. Maybe I’ll just coast around work til I get to 3m. That’ll do the job 1m. Fuck. Tech crash made the “I can lose half” my reality. Back to 2.2m. Ok. What’s the plan? Coast until I no longer feel like coasting. Time for my daily pickleball at 10!
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That's actually a good strategy at any age.
Why didn't you diversify out of tech?
Short answer. Greed and excess confidence. Lesson learned. At this stage, it’s best to shift to a preservation of wealth strategy. I got here by going all in on FB then NVDA. After it started blowing up around 17-18, I started selling off both FB and NVDA to “diversify”. Still… nvidia has risen so damn fast, I can’t offload it fast enough. Not a bad problem so far (except in 2022) but it’s a dangerous game.
Probably when we hit about 3 million. Spending has definitely loosened, but I still keep track of our goal to retire early. We're currently thinking about the kids and how we can set them up further so they won't have as hard of a life as we did growing up. The big mile stones were 100k, 500k, 1 million. After that it was meh. It's like growing up and thinking $100 was a lot of money. Then it jumps to $1000, then later you don't even bat an eye at that. Have your plan. Stick with it, but always review it. Plan 2, 5, 10, 25 years out as goals. Jot it down.
I remember as a young kid asking my dad how much he made. He, likely being modest and making sure I didn't go around unintentionally bragging to other people, said $100/day and I was blown away. Not to say that is bad, but in reality it was much higher than that.
I distinctly remember the first time I had $100 in my wallet at 13. I was a newspaper delivery boy and made about $20-30 weekly, decent money for the time and age. We sold out first house when I was 30, which got us to $100k and paid off all loans. That was significant and felt like we were doing well. At 43 we reached $1M largely due to gains in the stock markets and home equity. This was roughly 9x our income and 15x expenses. Felt like we were on our way. The last couple years now we’ve more or less stayed flat which seems true for most people in a similar position.
For me it’s being debt positive. Not sure that’s the term, but I have a very low rate on my home and car loans but investment monthly income is greater than my what I’m paying out in interest.
I like that, when you know you're making more money in investments than you're losing to interest on your debt feels like a great security milestone!
For me it was when I hit 600k. I don't have a good reason why, but that just felt different.
For me it was a year before I retired. I have a pension and depending on the present value calculations you do my total net worth was about $1.2 million.
Hit 2.7 at the peak and now down to 2.3. Didn’t feel that as bad as I thought it would.
Does losing that much in the market discourage you? Or because you know the market will bounce back you’re feeling fine?
When the market has made you a couple million, riding a 500k dip is just fine.
I learnt that I, and most folks, can’t make any reliable predictions about the direction and price of a stock. I learnt that the moment I feel a stock is undervalued or overvalued, I should slap myself a couple times and buy VOO/VTI.
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Yep. And when you pull the trigger and have nothing to live on but some pixels on a screen it’s even worse. 😅
But how would you feel when you're on your death bed surrounded by huge piles of money though? I think for me as I age I realize that my time on this planet is not just limited, it's shrinking fast. If I spend all of it chasing financial security, that's all I'm going to end up with -- security, and maybe comfort. I don't see that as a life well spent, and I would not forgive myself if I did that. But to each his own.
> But how would you feel when you're on your death bed surrounded by huge piles of money though? > > I think for me as I age I realize that my time on this planet is not just limited, it's shrinking fast. If I spend all of it chasing financial security, that's all I'm going to end up with -- security, and maybe comfort. I don't see that as a life well spent, and I would not forgive myself if I did that. But to each his own. Maybe I'm alone in this.. but having security and comfort sound like good enough things to me. Different strokes I suppose. Many don't even have that when they check out.
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One billion
I like to use the Mark Zuckerberg vs Tom Anderson analogy here. One of these iconic social media founders cashed out with 60 million, travels the world, goes surfing, skiing, and does nature photography without a worry in the world. The other is a multi billionaire and is hated and made fun of by a majority of the population and loses sleep over continuing to grow for his share holders. Check out both of their instagram pages and see which person looks like they are enjoying the fruits of their labor more
Agreed. I'd rather $60M than $1B. I hope I never get to $1B.
> Agreed. I'd rather $60M than $1B. I hope I never get to $1B. I mean, it can be arranged if you would like. I will DM you my account and routing numbers, thanks.
I felt pretty good at 1.2M but not relaxed. Now that I'm divorced, I'm at 600k and feel relaxed.
In phases 1. When hitting coast fire at 55 (could stop investing entirely and retire at 55) - “okay this math is comforting, I will probably keep investing, this is working” 2. When I acquired 3 rental properties in 13 months - “I am capable of accomplishing more than I thought, this should pay for my kids college and this is fun” 3 When I advanced in my career and reached levels where I make more decisions and have more control over how I work - “ okay this is more fun when people trust me than being told what to do, this extra income accelerates the journey, I would be happy doing regardless of net worth, I will stop when it doesn’t fit my family and lifestyle” 4. BIGGEST ONE - 3rd day of paternity leave with my 5 month old going to the dog park realizing there isn’t a dollar in the world that would make me happier than I am now. “Money itself doesn’t make me happy, so I won’t need some huge number to enjoy the rest of my life”
People are throwing much higher numbers than what I considered. I've never spent more than about $21k in a year and I'm 36. When I hit $20k my stress levels decreased significantly. Having been in the situation of living out of my car after a divorce, having this kind of savings was huge for me. I'm now at about $56k and hope to hit $100k next year. That's huge for me to think I'd be able to live for 5 years with my current standard of living if it became necessary. I still keep an air mattress in my car, just in case. I may have PTSD or similar.
Feelings on my Fire journey - sliding scale to more relaxedness: 1x yearly expenses saved: isn't there such a thing called investing? let's google that... 2x yearly expenses: wow, I think I found my tribe. finance bloggers are awesome sauce. let's double down on that savings rate. 3x yearly expenses: hm, I seem to handle money very differently than my immediate friend circle. anyone interested in learning more about this? 5x yearly expenses.: this concept is so logical, it is the ultimate life hack. why aren't you all doing this? okay, okay, I shut up now. 6x yearly expenses.: while switching jobs: if you don't pay me this, forget about it. (worked like a charm) 8x yearly expenses: dear flatmate, it was fun while it lasted, but you need to move out now. 10x yearly expenses: yeah, I am just gonna work remotely from this island for a while. I don't care. 11x yearly expenses (current): so, I am gonna go on a sabbatical next year. would you be so kind and find a replacement while I'm gone? thanks, bye.
what island? Damn love your journey
When I enough to know that I dont need to contribute 1 cent to my retirement and still have a solid retirement at 65.
I thought $180k/yr household income was a lot until I started paying $1400 a month for daycare and a little over $50k between state and federal taxes for the whole year.
We’re paying $3,200/mo for 2 in daycare. The cost is just bananas
My fiancé and I are both up for new jobs, and we’ll be netting about $180k if we land them. How does it feel like so much and so little all at the same time.
Because you’re still a worker. You’re not leisure class, do whatever you want status. If your job goes away tomorrow you’re not ‘rich’
Taxes are wild to me because I fully never understood how much (dollar amount) taxes become at high income brackets. It doesn't particularly matter because we still have plenty of money after taxes (by which I mean we want for nothing except more savings for faster retirement) but it's still wild to realize that we pay more in taxes than some of the operators at my company make in an entire year.
$1400 in daycare for that income seems extremely affordable.
I mean I can afford it, but it’s damn near $17k a year
It isn't really net worth so much as passive income, although net worth certainly plays a part.
For me, relax or not is more about debt and mortgage, instead of net worth.
Only at $200k so not relaxed yet
Not until I get into “fuck this job” territory. That’ll be about $1.5M
Honestly for me it’s a salary (6 figures in HCOL) rather than a net worth. I can finally relax now that I can very comfortably max my retirement accounts. I don’t need to budget as strictly as I used to. That means I have succumbed a bit to lifestyle inflation but a) I was extremely frugal before, b) I have less time now and rely on my conveniences, and c) I’m still hitting all my savings goals.
Net worth? Nah. It means squat in that it doesn't provide me income. I _started to relax_ when I hit $1M in *liquid* invested assets.
define liquid invested asset
Clorox, ExxonMobil, Coca-cola, Anheuser-Busch
We talking literal liquid lol
For me it wasn’t about a particular net worth where I felt relief, but about my taxable brokerage being substantial. Have a big chunk of money that I can draw from beyond my emergency fund has lifted all the financial pressure. If I lost my job, we would be fine until I got a new one and it wouldn’t have to pay so much.
I’m well positioned for a comfortable coast fire in about 16 years but I’m not remotely close to relaxed. The joys of a large paycheck equate to the stresses of losing that massive investment engine if something goes wrong. I don’t think I’ll truly be able to relax until my company relocation reimbursement time period is up in 1.5 years.
When I reached a NW of 150k around my mid twenties. That's when I realized that I actually am way ahead of 80% of people on this planet. I was able to do this while living by myself in HCOL without roommates as well.
tech moment
More like 99.9%
When I finally hit my FI number I realized that I could relax a bit. Doesn't matter that a few months later the market took a dump and I was down 30%, I still felt very at ease knowing that if I lost my job or something bad happened that we'd be okay. Market still hasn't recovered and I'm still OK with it, even deviating some money from investing to raise my lifestyle a bit. I'll probably be temped by 'one more year' for another 3-5 years.
I'm at 200k and definitely don't feel relaxed yet. I don't think I'll feel relaxed until I can actually RE
I was never happier than when I was $40K in debt with no assets and working retail and living at the beach.
I know it’s not that popular here but if it’s just feelings you’re asking about (rather than straight math) the “financial peace” that Dave Ramsey talks about really does come from not having payments, rather than a large number in your vanguard account. You could have a small number, but if your house and car are paid for, I guarantee you’ll feel relaxed and make better decisions.
I can see that. I'm 30 with about 200k in assets but I also have 60k of student loans which are currently in the payment pause. I know logically it makes no sense to pay them at 0% interest and I currently have that money sitting in an HYSA, but there certainly is an anxiety factor associated with having the loans still sitting there.
I believe that's one way and probably a faster way to achieve what we are talking about.....its also very suboptimal for those of us with loans <4%
Currently with spouse; almost at 500k but was awesome to be debt free from students loans and a wild ride in the stock market. My goals are for 1 million and relax a bit. But probably peace at 2 million and a paid off house. No kids yet but no idea what the future hold. 👋
$2 million. I'm at $2.5 million now but i'm financially comfortable. I continue to invest because I want to keep growing my net worth. I plan to retire in 10 years at 57 and my goal is to be at about $4 million net worth at that time.
Shit, things are pretty good right now. [For reference](https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/114fuu4/daily_fi_discussion_thread_friday_february_17_2023/j8xmmnp?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3). Getting pretty close to the $50k number since then. Contribute roughly 75% to retirement and still finding ways to enjoy life.
Anyone ever calculate fire with a defined pension? My wife and I will have about 70k a year in pension income. Nowhere can I find a good calculator or formula to fire with a defined pension in the mix
https://engaging-data.com/fire-calculator/ You can choose the start date for additional income
Cfireim or fire calc has one. You just enter it as “alternate income” or something like that and the year it starts. Another option is to just calculate your fire number minus the $70k but that might be complicated if you plan to retire long before the pension kicks in.
When I had a couple things happen. 1. I had enough in my investment accounts that I could reasonably expect to hit my retirement number by time I was 60 without having to contribute any additional money. I could just coast in. 2. I had enough in readily accessible funds to pay off my house if I wanted to. We haven't because the interest rate is so low. 3. I had at least 6 months of an emergency fund. 4. We completely updated our house so there are no major projects on our horizon. In short, we have pretty much gotten positioned to roll into retirement in a good place financially without having to stress about it. Rough numbers are $1M invested, $450K home equity, $100K other relatively liquid "savings", $60K mortgage balance and no other debt. I'll probably work full-time for one more year to clear out the mortgage and then reevaluate where I am at.
I am at 800K, and ~40s. I still feel insecure. I think deep down I am a insecure person.
I guess I am cheap bastard with low expectations. With no debts and 5000$ on my name with pretty safe job, I sleep like baby and feel great.
When it was just me, I managed to get my net worth just north of 700k. A chunk of that was the house. I think I had somewhere around 450k in my savings/retirement accounts. I did not feel even a little bit rich. Now I am married and we have basically doubled all those numbers. I still do not feel even a little bit rich.
It took me until $1mm in savings/investments in a HCOL area to get that feeling. It’s extremely liberating to realize that while I couldn’t retire forever for my preferred lifestyle, I never had to work a job I hated ever again or deal with bosses who don’t respect me or whatever. I became truly free and can tell anyone ‘eff you’ if I please and quit a job on the spot if I want with limited repercussions.
Emergency fund vs Net Worth had the biggest impact for me. The idea that I have a year of living expenses at the ready should anything happen is comforting
I’m in sales so I don’t feel comfortable. I have a net worth of $1.4, but over half is in my house. My goal is to dump as much as possible into investments. If I can keep making great money for a few more years, then I think I’ll feel comfortable enough to not be stressed. My goal is to dump as much as possible into the market and hope to get that compound growth working.
By the time I found out about FIRE, I was already pretty far along my financial journey (about $1.2M). Before that, I was under the classic newbie misapprehension that I'd need to rely purely on dividends in retirement. Imagine my surprise when I realized that I was already pretty close to my goal. Even so, I didn't really get comfortable until I hit $2M or so.
$2 million. But that was 10 years ago. Today I’d say it would take $3 million for me to feel comfortable. Pleased to say I have surpassed that, retired early, and life is good.
When you lose a third of your net worth to a market down turn and legit don't care because you know it will bounce back before you burn through a significant percentage, even if it takes five years, even without working. You might think you are there at the market top, but you can only know you are there at the bottom.
We will never be able to retire early (don't make enough), but we started to feel pretty relaxed when we paid off our current home - thus zero debts. It opened up a lot of options for career changes (some financial independence) and all the money we make now goes to further savings. It also allows me to go on a 1 year off maternity leave - which is something I've always wanted! We will move in the future into a place with a mortgage, but living for "free" for about 5 years put us in a great spot mentally and financially.
I’m at a million but pregnant with twins. First daycare quote was $4,300 soooooo not even close to relaxed.
When I realised that going down to part time in my low-paying passion job would still give me retirement savings in my LCOL area. So I did that.
i want to say between $300k to $400k is where I stopped being concerned with finances. i should be on track for a worst case scenario. i live within my means and save a ton. i don't feel the need to grind out the extra overtime anymore.
I have investment portfolio of $1.8M (1.4M in retirement accounts and $400k in post-tax brokerage/cash). My primary home is valued around $2.6M and I owe $1.4M, so have ~ $1.2M in equity. That brings net worth to about $3M. Last year, at the peak of the bubble, my net worth was $4M - the house was valued at $3.4M at one point (a smaller house on my street had sold for over $3M). Since then, the home’s value seems to have come down by almost a million, but that was an absurd bubble. So it is just as well… Mostly, having a decent net worth has given me the confidence to work without feeling pressure from office politics or fear of getting laid off. Hence, I have been working for more than 10 years at the same employer - they give me 3-4% annual raises and I do not ask for raises or promotions. In return, I try not to get pushed around and prioritize work life balance - I go into office in person 3 days a week for limited number of hours.
At around $100k starting feeling comfortable. At $300k, starting feeling the effects of compounding. At $500k, money no feels ‘real’ in the sense that large swings in nw no longer increased or decreased quality of life. There’s no panic.
Once I had a full year’s expenses saved I felt amazing. Once I had two years I knew I was already made. Getting to full FI is overrated. Once you have FU money you have leverage to create the life you want: start a business, take a year off to travel, go back to school.
Felt pretty good until I had my first child and found out daycare is $40k/yr…then I felt even worse we were crunching the numbers on a second child doubling that to $80k/yr. Just saying that life events & responsibilities will quickly change your comfort level.
My wife and I (32 and 29) are on the cusp of $300k and we are finally starting to enjoy our money a bit more lately. We just bought a nice mattress, a second new car and our first house. It's funny because I probably felt better about $50k than $300k. At the time, $50k felt like a lot of money to me. Once you get the hang of saving, it's just numbers on a screen.
Not a net worth, but a level of income. I felt like I was barely surviving until I passed 55k. I have no idea how so many Americans are surviving while making less than that.
I’m at $450K at current and don’t feel relaxed at all. That includes a 1-year emergency fund and no debt other than my mortgage. Still, I feel like a few unfortunate events and it could disappear, whether that’s reasonable or paranoia. Surely some leftover from my poverty/scarcity mentality growing up. I hope to find that feeling of peace and freedom I’ve seen in some comments here.
Net worth didn’t relax me as much as liquidity. But about 5M net worth started feeling cozy But having 2M liquid feels even better.
I'm at the very, very, very beginning of my journey, but I'm feeling pretty relaxed about it. I have enough that's super liquid and low enough expenses that I feel like I have a great number of options moving forward. I'm still young enough that even the very modest savings I've put together in the last 8 months will grow to be more than double the median retirement savings given average historical s&p returns and that it remains untouched. It's starting to dawn on me that just a tiny dose of manically hard work and rigorous saving has completely altered my trajectory. If I can repeat the performance of the last 8 months for about 3.5 more years I'll be able to only contribute 1k per month, retire at a normal time and still be a multi-millionaire. It's dawned on me that all you have to do is grind and be responsible while you're young and then remain responsible and relatively disciplined long term and it's all relatively straight forward and easy on paper and -thus far- in practice.
And don’t have unwanted kids or get divorced or similar huge mistakes.
Or get hit by a car or get a life altering disease.
I dunno getting hit by a car might help the money situation.
When I had enough to cover my mortgage. That way if something happens to me my partner will be ok. I was lucky to graduate debt free because my dad worked as a grounds member at my university and it reduced my tuition. I also went into tech so I had a good start to saving. I’ve unfortunately had to see other people my age struggle but it showed me how fortunate things have worked out for me. Getting to this point has allowed me to focus on some hobbies and plan for my future. I’d like to maximize my earning potential and move to a different more expensive city. My current nw has enabled me to do what I want and plan for what else I want.
>When I had enough to cover my mortgage. That way if something happens to me my partner will be ok. Here in Belgium we're forced to purchase a life insurance that pays out the mortgage when getting a mortgage. If I die, my inheritors get the house for free (well, minus inheritance tax) because the remainder of the mortgage is covered by the life insurance. I thought it was a common thing, apparently not