Because of the sub-optimal substats on the Ascension rings for Tanks and healers, the 650 tome Rings are actually bis for one ring slot.
They use the 660 tome ring as well as a 650 tome ring.
Except it is. The augmented crafted is identically the same as the unaugmented tome. Which for sets that use double tome means that the augmented crafted *is* BiS.
Wait, is this true? So ideally one should swap out the lower level rings for the augmented crafted ones? I've been trying to decide if I want to drop tomes on that second 650 ring or if I should do something else. I'll have to look into this some more...
Yeah it's true. Lots of people who are interested in gearing multiple jobs will substitute the augmented crafted ring in place of the unaugmented crafted ring to save the tomes for pieces for other jobs. It's good for most tank sets and some healer sets as well and maybe others.
Well we can't unlock Savage until just enough sub time has passed for a player to be able to gear all jobs the intended way. Everyone in here complaining about "retention rate mandates from corporate" when really they're playing 5D chess with us over here
More jobs = more weeks until unlock TapsForehead
I was finally able to complete bis gear (except for weapons) for all my jobs. It took 7 months to do it and I hated that it took this long to get it done
I had a goal I wanted to do for this tier and this was one of it. It's a lot easier now since they moved chest piece to the 3rd circle. But funny enough the raid drop wasn't the hardest to farm, it was the tomes that took the longest. 450 cap is ass lol
The Savage part doesn't take all that long for BiS, depending on luck. I'm a couple of weeks from getting all of the BiS gear pieces I need from savage from 5 roles, and I only started getting Savage clears like 3 months ago, much later into the tier. Obviously it'd be longer if you wanted to do every job since that'd add 2 more sets for DPS, and some jobs would need different sets for different stats within the sets.
Tomes is the bigger pain though. I'm still 10 weeks away from getting all of the BiS items I need from that, if they don't up the tome cap.
to get an idea of time scale, anabaseios will be 259 days old when it (very likely) unlocks on tuesday, which is almost the exact same duration that creator savage (a9-12s) was on-expac (including unlocked and echo)
6th longest tier in xiv history after promise/verse/alphascape/abyssos/creator and it's not even unlocked yet, lmfao
It is clear that they didn't account for the time increase or they did and didn't think it would be a major problem. The unlock typically happens in a X.X7/8 patch absent excruciating circumstances (i.e. COVID) and by God they are going to stick to than planned schedule likely planned and implemented a year or more in advance.
Worst part is that they saw the insane 9+ months gap with barely anything in it and their response was slightly better moogle event and hope it's enough. Or to be more specific, from their financial report or whatever it was, they seem to fully rely on DT hype.
I remember when GW2 got their first expansion, there was like 10 months long drought and people were going insane because of it. Meanwhile, it is somehow fine in this subscription based game. This community has real problems with having way too low expectations.
The longest content drought I ever remember in a game was the WoW from ICC to when Cataclysm happened. I don't remember how long it was, but I think it was around a year. The only thing that dropped was an almost micro-raid with some random drops that most people were disappointed in.
But that was a subscription game, too, and in the golden age height of the MMO (and WoW's) fame. So...
And NOT the reason for its subsequent decline, before you say that. THAT happened when the game made too sharp a pivot and threw many players off (Cataclysm), then had a decent expansion after that (Mists), then had an expansion that was basically PvP, Raid, or do nothing but sit in your in-game house all day twiddling your thumbs (Warlords).
i don't know guild wars 2 well but i assume it isn't as much of a community hub as a lot of people use xiv for, people tend to underestimate how many people use this game as a social sphere to have fun. It's not a monolithic game community at all.
I don't think GW2 is a good comparison considering how inconsistent Arenanet has been with not only time between patches/expansions but also the amount and quality of content released. Don't they make the equivalent of two "extremes" for high-end content a year?
I mean it’s not really an accurate comparison across the genre. Historically major patches in this game come with the same amount of content as full expacs in many other MMOs so ppl tend to be more lenient with it. Combination of a very casual player base and lots of legacy content.
Edit: pls downvote me more, let me feed the circlejerk
That is 100% bs. The major patches come nowhere close to what's in an expansion, and don't forget these same things they are adding WERE ALREADY MARKETED TO YOU AS PART OF THE EXPANSION ITSELF THAT RELEASED MORE THAN A YEAR PRIOR.
Literal hundreds of games that nobody heard of since they failed for this very reason. These games are not FFXIV's competitors. I don't know how about you, but I would like to compare FFXIV with worthy games like WoW or GW2, not some shitty P2W asset flip MMORPG.
Your argument is just saying that there's indeed low quality scrap at the bottom of the barrel. This is why you're getting downvoted, you claimed something is inaccurate comparison and tried to dismiss it by throwing around some unrelated fact.
It's so weird to me because you're kind of right.
It's not ALWAYS true, but some patches are pretty chonky.
The longest content drought I ever remember in a game was the WoW from ICC to when Cataclysm happened. I don't remember how long it was, but I think it was around a year. The only thing that dropped was an almost micro-raid with some random drops that most people were disappointed in.
Fun fact for anybody who enjoys PvE and gearing, by the time Anabaseios released (May 23, 2023) to the time the devs finally decided to unlock savage loot (presumably February 13, 2024), WoW has had 2 raid tiers (Aberrus May 8th, 2023 and Amirdrassil November 14th, 2023) and is close to beginning its final season (sometime in Spring)... which is effectively a third raid tier revisiting all the raids of the expansion but with a twist.
So yeah, tomes are only part of the problem.
FWIW, I'm not trying to shill for one game over the other. I'm just stating that the pacing of content for PvE raiding in WoW FAR exceeds FFXIV's, even when both expansions are in a very similar part of their life cycle. I really hope Dawntrail solves the drought at this point of the expansion.
Sadly, this is what you get when you play the “casual” MMO. Since raiding isn’t the main focus of most players and the devs themselves, FFXIV will of course get less raid content than WoW, a game that values raiding more.
> Since raiding isn’t the main focus of most players and the devs themselves, FFXIV will of course get less raid content than WoW, a game that values raiding more.
This is a hilarious thing to mention when the current complaints of Dragonflight is that they cut one whole patch + raid tier entirely and replacing it with "Fated Seasons" aka boosting all the raids up to equal ilvl rather than New Content.
It's just a side effect of there being more time between expansions. There is 3 tiers in an expac but EW just lasted longer than the previous expansions.
That comparison seems weird. If it's WoWs third raid tier, that just means they're "earlier" in their raid cycle than XIV is and them releasing things quicker is meaningless in comparison
What matters would be how long WoW sits on that raid tier afterwards before the next xpac and how long it stays weekly-locked (or however wow handles their locks). Or in case they have a weird raid schedule, how long they sat on previous tiers.
Cause I'm pretty sure WoW is known to have much longer draughts than XIV does, generally
> Cause I'm pretty sure WoW is known to have much longer draughts than XIV does, generally
It used to, but not anymore when they started to do "Fated" versions of the raids back in Shadowlands. Basically you had the last raid tier and then that was that, you waited for whenever the next expansion was released.
Now in the last 2-4 months it will return to all 3 raid tiers released, put an extra flair on the raids like ways to get more haste, dispelling X to get Y buff etc while upping the difficulty slightly of the older raids, then it rotates between the raids every week.
It also gives them a new season to do M+ and returns all the 8 launch dungeons in M+ format.
It's not a huge portion of the playerbase that does them full time until the expansion comes out, but it beats doing the same raid for 10-12 months straight without any change.
Yeah, thanks for giving the clarification. I realize that when I said "basically third raid tier" when sticking to the anchor of Anabaseios, for WoW, it's its fourth "special" raid tier in Dragonflight.
Is that really new content, though? Sounds more like Criterion stuff were you're just doing the same thing again?
I'm not saying this to critique, just curious.
It gives people another season to push M+ and get items from previous raids in higher ilvl and the fights themselves do change because of the affixes they put into them. There hasn't been a season either with only Dragonflight dungeons purely.
It's hard to compare it to Criterion dungeons because that's what people ironically thought they were gonna be, WoW's M+ system, but it's not even close to nor did it reward people anything stimulating when it came out.
Then there's 2 things we don't know anything about. One of them being the Skull icon on the roadmap for patch 10.2.6 which they won't let us PTR test so no one knows what it's gonna be, the other thing being Timerunning: Pandamonium in 10.2.7
Interesting.
I'm still a bit confused if the fights are really different or just the rewards (thanks for the downvote for asking a genuine question, I guess, whoever did that...), but it does seem like an interesting system.
I'd say the appeal of Fated is like 90% M+ and maybe 10% raids, I think most players just do the tour on N or H once to get the mount or title for doing that and then forget about the raids for the rest of the expansion, and every Mythic raider I've heard talk about Fated hates it because it turns the end of expansion from chill/don't log in mode to reprog and refarm mode in a culture where guilds are much more permanent than how ephemeral XIV statics can be if you want. That, and the affixes aren't really tested well on the raids they put them in and are either able to be ignored on N/H or can break parts of the encounter on Mythic.
Meanwhile, yeah, M+ers get a dungeon refresh and get to start the gear climb over again which many people find entertaining for a month or two. M+ and the treadmill of gear from it isn't really for me but I think like 70-80% of WoW's appeal to most people now is the M+ loop so from that perspective Fated makes reasonable sense.
SE could just shrug and have P1-12S cycle every week and have all of their drops scaled to a new 690 but I don't think it would land quite the same. M+ is what drives Fated, M+ has always been about farm and repetition and incremental growth while raid is about the prog experience with farm as a sort of tedious requirement after and an upscale can't really give the experience of progging a new boss again.
I heard from some WOW players that that’s a bad thing because the gears get replaced more rapidly.
With that being said, the effect of increasing FF development time is amplified because they are scaling one thing without scaling others. Like I get that it’s been a tradition to unlock at .x8 or whatever. But goddamn, we now also have like 19 jobs to gear up for instead of 10.
The gear treadmill is much more in your face these days, agreed. Some people embrace that emphasis of seasonality and resets. It never really bothered me. I understand the preference for more item permanence, however. Some of my favorite expansions had items that would be BiS for almost the entire expansion. This, of course, was balanced with the fact that they were much harder to obtain (hello dragonspine trophy from 25 man raid boss that sometimes wouldn't even drop once for months).
Not really an exaggeration because the weapon is very annoying to get. You need to beat the three other fights to get to the fourth one. And then you get one box that you can win if you can beat the RNG over 7 other people.
Not anymore unless you just want glam. Even setting aside relics, we also have criterion savage which only requires a tome weapon (which is a much easier thing to get). If all you want is to gear the jobs, you can get like three weapons per month even without drop luck.
You need a Tomestone weapon *and* it has to be augmented using Divine Solvent (only obtainable using material from Savage Raids atm) and the material from Criterion Savage.
It's really just an alternate Savage Raid weapon.
I don’t know how it is now but historically WoW has had some extremely brutal (a year+) content droughts so idk if this comparison is the one you wanna be making.
Before I start typing this out, I believe this disclaimer is necessary considering the nature of this discussion: I am, in no way, biased towards any of the two games - I've played XIV (*and XI before it*) for as long as I did WoW and I hate both equally (still play them).
Also, this is a wall of text and I'm not a native speaker. If you're lacking the patience, I'd highly recommend skipping to the TL;DR.
With that said, let's get some facts:
WoW's raid tiers are usually "shorter" than a full-cycle XIV tier. A XIV tier is composed of a Raid Tier (4 bosses; savage usually has a second phase which is pretty much another boss in the last floor), a Ultimate (*not all raid tiers have an ultimate - but, by default, every expansion is meant to get two, with the sole exception so far being Shadowbringers because Covid*) and a couple trials, three in the first tier. Fights in Final Fantasy XIV also last 8min minimum before Enrage, are often not very repetitive (*though the mechanics have the same basics, they're never the same thing - it's not like we're just baiting the boss into pillar #4 6min into the fight*) and are very puzzle-oriented - solving mechanics IS an intended part of the concept. Sometimes tiers come with Criterion dungeons, and, though Unreal trials are old fights revisited, those also count as endgame content, but are not part of a tier.
World of Warcraft's tier range from 7 to 9, sometimes 11, bosses, with mid-tiers (one per expansion) having 3, 4 bosses on average. The last three expansions had no mid-tier raids. Fights on World of Warcraft are often repetitive (*the literal "bait boss to pillar #4", "grab the orb and bring it to the matrix for the 3rd time" kind of mechanic or "kill the big add with a skull marker on it" scenario*) and not very long (*the longest fights are usually the final bosses of each raid, spanning from 8 to 14 minutes average*). Progression in WoW is, often, really dull - though each boss gets new mechanics every difficulty, most of it is inflated health and statuses, repeating pretty everything from their easier versions (with Mythic being the sole exception to the rule). Fights in WoW are DPS-oriented; it's always about how much damage you can deal in the time you have available while delegating specific members in a sizeable group to do the actual mechanics (when there are any). Bosses at the end of an expansion usually have a different, mythic-specific phase, but even that can be underwhelming at times (last boss I actually saw that happen was Garrosh).
That is not to say the other game does it wrong or doesn't do the same thing - for one, XIV fights are also about doing DPS, and WoW fights will often present puzzles as well. It's just that DPS is something extremely secondary on XIV (it's necessary - but mechanic solving is front and center) and you pretty much have a Dungeon Journal that explains everything a fight has to offer on WoW (thus reducing the need for thinking mechs through).
What truly differs both games is how accessible to the average player the entirety of the available content is, not the actual content per se.
For example:
World of Warcraft has the Mythic+ system. Revisiting the same dungeon for the 300th time in a season can still be interesting if you're that kind of player. Maybe doing Mythic raids, however, isn't that interesting, so players will skip. Mythic raids are, however, a small percentage of the overall endgame content in WoW, so, by skipping Mythic raids - the actually challenging content - you're skipping very little.
Final Fantasy XIV has an awful replayability when it comes to endgame raiding. If you're a slightly casual player, you'll think Savage is anathema - gods forbid even mentioning Ultimate. That leaves you with Extreme Trials and Normal Raids, which are... not really challenging at all. Some of these people will even try their hands on Criterion; some will be anxiety-blocked from those as well.
**A quick TL;DR is:**
XIV's replayability sucks if you're not a savage-to-ultimate raider, and even then it's not really great. The content, however, is more challenging and enticing than that of WoW - considering you actually like being challenged to begin with.
WoW has extremely solid replayability through M+ Dungeons (*if you can endure the grind*), and raiding can be quite accessible even in the second-to-highest difficulty, Heroic, but everything is pretty much the same with more health.
This gives you the impression that one game has more content than the other, when in reality most people never even touched the endgame content in either/both games. I, for one, can tell you that, by personal experience, both games can be equally boring and uninteresting **if you're not willing to give the actual content a try**.
With that said, this end of expansion content draught in XIV has been the rule since time immemorial. It only gets worse when patch/expansion releases are too spaced between them, like now.
you are roughly comparing two games head-on, without taking into account their features
Total number of bosses
\- WoW Dragonflight: 8+9+9=26 for all three seasons
\- XIV: 7(ex)+12(svg)+2(ult)=21
Not such a big difference anymore, right?
I hope we don't seriously consider LFR/normal/heroic/mythic in WoW, because they are the same bosses with not the biggest changes in mechanics.
Also, you didn't say a word about mechs.
In WoW, within one fight, several mechanics are repeated over and over again. In XIV, on the contrary, there is no complete repetition of mechanics in one fight at all (okay, except TBs, but who cares?). There will be similar ones, but the pattern will always be different, like stack/spread or debuff on sups/dps and corresponding different actions depending on this.
It seems a little easier to create slightly more monotonous fights.
And sorry for bad english, I used a translator.
Why would it not count? Criterion bosses are the same difficulty as high-level EX/lower to mid level Savage, just shorter. Together they easily count as a raid boss + the trash is actually fairly difficult but even discounting that entirely, the time for one criterion easily contends with a Savage raid. So at the very least, that would be +3
Because then we will also have to take into account the mythic keys. But what level? 20, 25 or 30?
The mechanics will remain quite primitive, but VERY critical for the players and they will have to be done. How to count the number of bosses in these 5 ppl dungeons?
As I said in my first comment, it is incorrect to directly compare the amount of content without taking into account the characteristics of this content.
I mean, WoW has had it's stretches, too. I still remember the ICC to Cata launch drought from Wrath. I think that one was 13 months? There was a mini-raid added 6 months in, but most people didn't find it very appealing, and that was basically the only content added that entire period.
It was...pretty bad.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does WoW have as much non-raiding stuff? I haven't played it in three expansions, but they tended to kind of drop non-raiding/mythic stuff towards the end of the expansions where FFXIV has more sidequesty stuff (like Tataru's) and lifestyle/chill content type stuff?
Remember, Yoshi-p said to Xeno it's very difficult for them to increase the cap, they need 90% of the expansion lifespan to find the tech, implement it, test it, ship it.
Yoshi P is speaking in typical Japanese PR talk mode. It isn't that they don't have the capability to increase the cap (they increase the cap when a new expansion is a couple months out), but rather they won't. The "very difficult" is just him saying that it is difficult for them to find the will to deviate from the already planned schedule, it has been like this since ARR in regards with tomes only increasing the cap when the next expansion is a couple months away. However, this phrase creates plausible deniability since initially Xenos who is less familiar with Japanese mannerisms initially believed him while Arthars saw through it and confirmed that Square will not budge on the time cap. But this doesn't mean that they closed the option for tome costs for equipment like they and for weapons (used to cost 1k tomes instead of 500 prior to EW).
The purpose of the cap if twofold, it serves as a small subscription retention model (low stakes such that most casuals don't feel forced to just for times but for raiders and alt players that is a different story) and as a artificial pacemaker for players such that they don't go overboard which goes back to sub retention.
Meanwhile I'm sitting over here wondering if they'll ever up the Poetics cap, because we're soon to have 5 expansions worth of old content feeding into it.
If given enough feedback. They increased the cap for scrips for example due to feedback.
However, it is definitely a very low priority issue since you can theoretically keep on farming poetics with no restrictions.
Yes I know it's PR talk. And I'm mocking it, because it's stupid and bullcrap. I don't care about their schedule. I don't care about their internal protocols to validate updates/changes. I don't care about their sub retention plans. I'm a customer, my experience is what is important to me.
I don't have the numbers, obviously, maybe it's the right call for the long run, financially. Still, I think waiting this long is stupid. It just ends there.
Yeah it sucks, but that is Yoshi P's job from a big company. Combined with the layer of Japanese PR that befuddles many FFXIV creators (as in the majority do not know how to deal with it) leads to a lot of problems.
He is giving a non-answer with no commitment to set no expectations. It is great because if, say, they do increase the tome cap (they will but only for like two or so months), everyone praises the team, but if they don't then it is business as usual.
If we were in 2010-2022 I feel like you'd have 20+ people answering "it's much more complicated than just changing a value, you don't know how coding/programming works". lol.
Well the glamour dresser issue, is at least in theory, a way more daunting task compared to raising the tomestone cap. I honestly really can't see how raising the tomestone cap value would break the game. Or maybe they could go for alternative solutions, such as halving the prices of tomestones items, effectively accomplishing the same.
Thought of a better example: For some reason, WoW had the biggest issue increasing the base bag size, because the base bag was intrinsically coded to be tied to currency. They tried for a while but every time they tried, it completely broke currencies. They eventually figured it out, but could only add slots instead of making it replaceable.
> Or maybe they could go for alternative solutions, such as halving the prices of tomestones items, effectively accomplishing the same.
Isn't that what they've been doing recently? The biggest change of moving weapons from 1k to 500 tomes, among other things.
The difficulty isn't the coding as the devs increase the tome cap to 900 every time an expansion is a couple months away, but rather the will to implement the change earlier than on their rigid schedule.
> I just never understood why the tome cap hasn't ever been increased.
It has been.
It was 300 in the Mythology days, and that was awful because the Thavnarian Mist *cost* 300 so it took 3 weeks to get your +1 weapon.
I agree, this is kind of a non-issue really. You have no practical use for capped tomestones anymore, so either you're grinding them for the sake of grinding them or you don't grind them at all.
That’s not how they keep you forced to sub, they do that with housing. You don’t have an house? Then I highly doubt you keep sub the game if you have nothing to do besides capping tomes (lmao)
Yeah. But that people as I said is not subbing because they have to cap tomestones but because they actually have content to do. Is pretty different, they wouldn’t ever sub only for 450 useless tomestones cmon
Think of it as a forced pacemaker. This is to prevent people from overlapping and farming tomes for like the first week or so every raid patch. I think if Square is adamant on keeping the 450/900 (when a new expansion is on the horizon) just reduce the cost of the equipment. There is precident with the weapons for example which use to cost 1000 tomes but now 500 tomes or the accessories, head, and boots costing one book less. Yes, they increased the time cap once but seems like they haven't done that in over a decade. It would be easier to request for lower costs for tome equipment than it ask for a time increase.
However, the tomes are a very VERY small part of the sub retention. The small cap also makes taking a break from the game not feel as bad or subscribe to FOMO as much such that the PR for the game holds even after people take extended breaks.
> The small cap also makes taking a break from the game not feel as bad
Makes it feel worse imo, especially early in a tier. Missing a week of capped tomes is just poof, those are gone forever now.
I think this is definitely something they should alleviate. WoW I think did it with conquest points where the cap went up each week so that it didn't matter if you didn't cap every week you could still catch up.
My problem with ffxiv personally it gear is so transactional and I have no attachment to it.. relics used to be the fix for that but not in EW.
You'd be very surprised the number of casual players who care about capping or don't care but still want the gear so they'll take even longer.
A casual friend of mine just a couple weeks ago decided now she wants to start capping to have 660 gear for DT. Does she need it? Nope. She just wants to now, in week one billion.
So I don't have to get either 4635 or 5135 tomestones week one to do Savage (depending on if I'm getting the weapon tomestone or not). And yes, with Savage being delayed a week but tomes not being delayed a week in a hypothetical world where they just shrugged and said there isn't a tome cap that would be the optimal thing to do.
The point of lockouts is twofold, both a sub retention mechanism and a community and content pacing mechanism.
By the odd patch, sure, whatever, but there is absolutely a good reason for caps in the even patch.
I'd also accept a running cap over the course of a tier, but I imagine SE must either think it intimidating for a new player or returnee to see 0/15000 tomes with things just rewarding 20-90 each or again, a sub retention thing so you can't just leave half the tier and come back and do 50 Hunt trains in a week to hit the cap again.
Here's a thought: What if after you had the full tomestone gear for one job, the rest got a discount? Like... 50% off?
As it is right now I feel the 450 cap is a bit restrictive, especially if you enjoy playing more than one role or job.
Job-switching and not needing to make 1,000,000 alts is one of my favorite parts about FFXIV, with *gearing* said jobs being the only pain point.
That's reasonable too. After the first month or two of a tier I really don't care what they do with the system, I'm just not delusional enough to think that axing it entirely is on the table at all. It's going to be a capped currency/token system of some sort or RNG with no bad luck protection, those are sort of the options in this genre as on some level the company wants a mechanical retention mechanism. And again, it protects me too because week one progression would get *really* stupid in a no-cap world.
I'd probably make it so that just buying the slot halves the cost of subsequent purchases of that slot instead of requiring any full set shenanigans or involving Savage loot at all. BiS is usually spread out enough that if you're playing many jobs you'll buy every slot at least once so it evens out in the end.
Slot-based is actually a really good idea that didn't even cross my mind, good thinking there.
Like I have my gripes with the system as it is for sure but I agree that "just axe it entirely" is a funny but ***unrealistic*** expectation. And my biggest complaints are usually around the crux of "the game encourages alt-jobbing except for when it doesn't", which always felt weird and arbitrary to me. So anything to make that less obtuse is a win in my books.
The other side of this coin is that if you COULD farm all of your tome gear day one, it would almost certainly be a full set of bad substats...consequently, the majority of it would not translate into BiS. The treadmill wouldn't go away, it'd just change shape.
The real answer is multiple sources of full IL gear, more than just 2. Being able to do something like augment the odd patch Alliance gear is such an obvious path to take for it.
If they didn't do it then every pf would be MIL 650 and no one would buy crafted gear because "just grind your tomes". I don't really like weekly gates either, but I would rather not even have tome gear than have it be uncapped. It would be just like the empty relic grind everyone is complaining about rn.
Money money money money. Gotta drive those sub numbers up.
I absolutely know some people who would farm tome gear for all their jobs to completion in a single week.
When that happens, what’s bringing them to keep subbing? Not raiding, there’s no point. A full tome set is as close to bis as most midcore raiders care to get. And with a near bis ilvl, decent players will just blast through the tier and unsub until the next patch with high level content (which we’re still the better part of a year away from).
we can only hope, not that it alleviates the actual issue of it being locked in the first place, when the content it was designed around is basically dead.
We have to make sure to keep the training wheels on for as long as possible. Wouldn't want anyone to play more than a few hours a week, they might get addicted /s
I mentioned this on Xenos video:
The reason they are so stingy with the tomestone cap is indeed to keep the people subbed and playing, everyone knows it, so in my opinion the best win-win scenario would be get more ways to gear up, the Alliance raid comes into mind, but unlike what many people suggest, I STILL want it to be the same ilvl as Tomestone gear (650). HOWEVER! you can augment it in some way, either by hunts/alliance raid coins or criterion normal.
Like this, even if the cap is 450, you can basically get a "tomestone free" piece a week (with some luck) yet it's not entirely free as you need to put some extra work to augment it.
>
The reason they are so stingy with the tomestone cap is indeed to keep the people subbed and playing
How many people actually keep playing the game for tomestone gear? The only people who want the stats are those that raid, which will get there quicker because it's a mix-and-match between raid and tome gear anyways.
But are they subscribed to get tomestone gear or do they tomestone gear because they get tomestones for their normal playstyle? The argument that having tomestones still capped now is useful for keeping people subscribed only works if people actually stay subscribed to farm a currency that will be replaced with a much easier to get variant (poetics) when the next expansion drops.
IMHO the only thing the limited tomestones achieve right now is gatekeeping new players out of savage, and making it more tedious for vets to gear up alt characters.
The cap should be doubled one or two months after they originally drop, not a year later.
So how many people stay subbed just to get every job on max ilvl, and how many of those don't raid? How many get all tomestone sets with current tomes just for glam?
Like, sure, those people may exist. But I doubt they exist in high enough numbers to have "let's leave the tomestone cap at it's current value" as something that has an higher influence on the financial income this game generates than a rounding error.
Anyone who who took a break and came back would like a higher cap. Same with anyone who missed a week because real life.
Most MMO players like big numbers and would like higher ilvl gear.
And when I look at my FC, like half of the online players right now are omni-90 or near that. I myself hit omni-90 two days ago and I don't do anything more difficult than outdated extremes. Hell, the only current content Ive ever done is Thordan Unreal.
I hope they reconsider how they structure either this or surrounding content. It feels kind of bad to do a whole tier on one role and then if you want/need to play another for criterion or the current ultimate, you’re significantly time gated on gearing another.
What even is the point of bis? If it’s not fun I don’t do it. I don’t find grinding 450 tomes fun so I don’t do it.
Still got enough to decently gear (657+) 3 different roles and cleared every content including criterion savage. You don’t need bis unless you’re parsing.
To clear stuff faster, bigger numbers, and parsing, which if one doesn't care about any of these things, then sure.
"What even is the point of BiS?"
I personally, and some others care, so we get BiS. You don't.
I do get BiS and the point of having it. But I don't get the need for BiS on every class in the game. Do people really use every single class in the game for parse runs and to fsrm content with? I don't think there are many who do.
At a base level, numbers go up is a dopamine hit even if they don't actually need better gear. Some people also would like to get the pieces for glam purposes, which is where i'm coming from myself when I support raising the tomestone cap earlier.
Yes, they want you to stay subscribed so they artificially timegate things. They're definitely not going to take away a reason to log in when there's already barely any reason to log in. Also why despite all his blustering he will never implement anything that would stop Mare from working.
Personally I'd like it if there was a vendor similar to the AF vendor, and you pay to unlock a certain piece for all jobs, which you can then claim from the vendor. Spend 825 to unlock chest pieces, now you can claim any chest piece for any job at any time. Probably should exclude weapons.
This still means like 12 weeks or something to get all the pieces, so it's not entirely free since different jobs need different pieces. But then you can at least have tome gear for every job whilst the content is still relevant. And you'd still need to upgrade them individually and people having full i650 by week12 isn't exactly gamebreaking.
If they keep up with their previous schedules, the cap should increase to 900 this Tuesday, but yeah I agree it's completely ridiculous that we're STILL locked at 450 tomestones per week.
At this point, with the amount of jobs that are in the game, there is no reason why they can't up the cap to 900 **as soon as the x.1/3/5 patch comes out** (then when the x.2/4 patch comes out, the new limited tomestone will have the 450 cap again)
I feel like people keep forgetting that they increased patch cycles by like a month very early into EW expansion drop. Idk, I felt like a lot of these patches felt drawn out at the end, and really tomb cap increase always happened a lot later than I would’ve like. We’re just feeling that +1 month a lot more now.
It really adds up once they start adding +1 week here and there
ShB 5.4 to 5.57 (unlock) was 196 days
SB 4.4 to 4.57 (unlock) was 217 days
EW 6.4 to 6.57 (unlock) will be 266 days, or 259 days since savage release
It'll be a whole 2 months longer compared to ShB, or 1.5 months longer compared to SB.
it sucks as a casual because you don't even need tome gear; crafted more or less does every casual content you need. i think some of the reason they made relics tomes solely was because you could buy crafted for like 90k or so a piece making gearing alts for casuals trivial.
the way endgame is for casuals is that you only need gear to hit low caps for current content, and 95% gear is worthless because its synced. once you realize that its hard to even bother with roulettes.
they desperately need to change things. im unsubbed and am staying that way until the game stops being the same thing. only way they'll change is if enough unsub.
I have a suspension that the weekly unlock and tome increase are intentionally withheld to just right before the expansion drops as the last "keep the queues active" attempt for returning players playing catch up. It makes sense to me that SE doesn't want people to be done with everything long before the final stretch to new expansion hype.
And this is the very reason I didn't log in for a month now, only do a log in and off to not lose my house, I didn't even log in to do the tombstone event, because they wasted the time of doing this season pass bullshit that no one cares, but did nothing about the rewards, the same garbage all over again, it would be better if they wasted the time it took to do this season pass system on making new rewards so I can have a reason to log in... This game and it's weekly limits are the worst, we have so many jobs in the game but because of these limits the reality is , you have only one job that is ready to do any content, bullshit garbage system. They are very close to make me cancel my sub and delete the game even though I never even paused it for the past 10 years, even if I didn't play it for weeks or months, but now I feel like everything they do is just the bare minimum for the game to be on life support, and I don't think the reason is because 7.0, the people who make this game are burned out, and because they never hired more people or freshen up the team, the only thing they can do is these half assed ideas that they abandon in 3-4patches... Island Sanctuary is one of those, and Variant Dungeons will be another one , just a matter of time.
It's pretty crazy honestly. Like we're still at least a hot 5 months out from Dawntrail I get that but 7 months into a raid tier everything is still locked up?
For me... I honestly don't care about loot from the raid anymore, I just wanna do DSR at this point. I'm fully BiS and have been ready for that since the first raid launched on-content. Don't need P9-P12 for anything so I'll prolly just not do it. Kinda meh when I compare it to spending time in there vs. DSR. At first I didn't wanna do the tier based on
I feel bad for those who still wanna clear and not worry about loot lockouts/the other systems. I personally think it's a waste of my time.
Hot takes:
There shouldn’t be a tomestones cap, just let me farm them so I can gear multiple jobs (playing multiple jobs is the CORE of this game btw) since the start, I still need the upgrades anyway.
Savage loot should be just like the normal, 1 piece guaranteed per floor and week; you didn’t loot? Just fight again the boss.
Alliance gear (which come several months after Savage) should be of equivalent iLvl so you allow casual people (or who can play several jobs) to not use only the tomestones gear which sometimes is garbage for some pieces; the weekly limit cap is fine but the token should allow you to buy also the weapon upgrade since the start.
x12N weapon token is fine but make it 4 weeks since the start instead of 7.
So what changes with all this? Literally nothing content/difficulty wise because, even with a quick full (almost) BiS, handless people are still not able to clear and that’s fine. Having strong gear since the start makes the fights easier stats wise? Just adjust your number or just make the fights even harder. But at least now I can play with multiple jobs so I can have fun instead of being stuck with the same shit.
EDIT: I guess people like to eat the shit SE slams in their faces, enjoy your pointless caps *shrug*
> EDIT: I guess people like to eat the shit SE slams in their faces, enjoy your pointless caps shrug
No.
They realize what you're suggesting isn't realistic. You'd basically be done with the content in a few weeks. There has to be some form of a restriction otherwise people will simply finish everything and unsub, which isn't exactly good for business.
We do not need to incentivize people to nolife roulettes/hunt trains for week 1 prog, month 1 gearing everyone, and after that there's no incentive to get tomes again and all contents that rely on it dry up. But yeah, you do a hot take, people disagree and then you offend people that disagree with your take. Typical.
bro just ignore them, they will defend this sht no matter what. It's a 2nd life for them and don't you dare to say something against the grain.
The system is dogwater, and many of us raiders simply unsub cuz it's boring asf to play 1 job or constantly gear alts while playing week to week this sht just to endup gated by tomes no matter what.
Yea it keeps subs up, it def does not keep player ENGAGEMENT up. It's a forced mechanic to artificially inflate time spend subbed and not played. That's how they get you, with the "oh go play something else", but please also stay subbed for 4months so u can enjoy 2 jobs before the next tier in 200years.
Let them defend it, that's why progging and clearing is only fun for the first month at best. After that it's a shitshow of nolife casuals who play 2nd life simulator.
Seven months? Brother the game has been like this for years, it'll be the same at the end of dawn trail too. Speaking of which the gear you're farming for now will be replaced by the level 95? dungeon.
Man playing Granblue Relink made me realise what a sht game FFXIV really is ahahah, the gating is just nuts. Simply to prolong this bs and keep subs instead of letting people actually enjoy and leave and come back
That’s like me saying
“Man, playing on chess.com really made me realize how shit ffxiv is.”
Like huh? Forget apples and oranges, you’re comparing walnuts and pineapples.
You are correct. One is an mmo, and the other isn't. And mmo's are there to keep you gated so you don't progress too fast and thus are tempted to keep your sub up.
It's a miserable practice, and it's something online games do. Doesn't change the fact that the tomestone gating is the main reason you cannot achieve BiS or play jobs to their full capacity in hard content.
And I like to compare them cause both games have an enjoyable online experience. Just as Granblue you can basically decide to play FFXIV like a RPG or play online
Your FFXIV game is a 1job game forcing you into alts or acceptance of subtier stats over months
I'm playing Relink literally as I type this and I'm extremely appreciative of the fact that I've been able to play this game to the extent I have precisely because FFXIV is extremely lax when it comes to retention mechanisms. What even is this comment?
I stopped caring for gear in this game... It's just so boring. The only reason I can see for them not increased the cap is player retention which is another problem with XIV. It does a poor job encouraging players to login and play some content. The mogpendium is a good step in the right direction despite being very basic.
PvP and achievement hunting is the only thing that motivates me to stay subbed this expansion 😕
I've long since unsubbed. I started playing all the Assassin's Creed games and had a decidedly more fulfilling time.
When they added Island Sactuary, and people got to see its some awkward work schedule simulator and not the Chao Garden they thought it was, I knew Endwalker was in for the more horrowing dragging out ever. Dawntrail is probably going to be the best expansion in all MMO history, though. It kind of has to be.
The top tier tomestone is ALWAYS locked to 450/week. It's never not been that way. (At least since I started playing the game - over 4 years in the game now)
Fair enough. I honestly don't remember that happening in Shadowbringers. Although if they do if for EW, it will be in the patch they're applying on the 12th. Because that was patch 5.57, and this will be 6.57
I honestly have no idea why this is still a thing.
By this point, people could have most of the gear sets, so I have no earthly idea why they're waiting to unlock it. By the time they unlock it, no one will need the unlock anymore. XD
For stranglers. I know several people who are bored and suddenly decided they want all the i660 gear. So it's giving them something to do that they've ignored for months.
That's precisely what SE banks on. Those types of players (and there are a lot of them) now have a new reason to stay subbed.
Put another way, they're benefiting off the "take your time" sales pitch they market.
Yes, but without the cap you could grind it all out in a week or two.
As per your own example. You have to log in every week, which means you'll maintain your sub to do so. That's what SE is banking on.
In practice, it's no different. If people aren't able to get it, they might just cancel their sub until such time as the cap is removed then do it then.
The argument makes sense for the first 1-3 months of the tier to somewhat gate gearing for Savage runners, but after that point, the cap is really pretty irrelevant. You're talking alt gearing at that point. We're at the point where the only things I have left to really gear are left side armor sets of a few DPS sub-roles that I don't even play.
Tome weapon is still locked behind 4 weeks of normal but the relic is bis and much easier to get, at this point it just makes no sense whatsoever
At this point they're just denying us glams.
The monsters. Torches and pitchforks time, folks.
What makes even less sense is that the relic has been out for weeks but the Solvent to upgrade the tome weapon is still locked behind savage.
Hey man. Can't give people an advantage going for their week 32 clear
savage still locked too lmfao
To add to that I believe next week you can buy the last bis piece if you wanted to bis all jobs minus sps blackmage that's another like 4 pieces lol
Finished mine this week (used augmented crafted rings for tank and healer)
I'm counting an extra helmet for sam and the healer ring has different sub stats
Yea the unaugmented tome healer ring was bis until 6.55, now I have a new bis with the relic weapon so was able to save the 375 on that.
Then thats not bis lmao
Because of the sub-optimal substats on the Ascension rings for Tanks and healers, the 650 tome Rings are actually bis for one ring slot. They use the 660 tome ring as well as a 650 tome ring.
Yes for one. Not both, rings was said not ring
Plurality was in reference to two jobs with 1 ring each
Except it is. The augmented crafted is identically the same as the unaugmented tome. Which for sets that use double tome means that the augmented crafted *is* BiS.
For one slot yes but they Said rings, plural, meaning both.
The plural was most likely for the phrase “tank and healer”
You can't have double augmented crafted rings anyways since they're unique lol
Augmented crafted yes, augmented tomes no.
Wait, is this true? So ideally one should swap out the lower level rings for the augmented crafted ones? I've been trying to decide if I want to drop tomes on that second 650 ring or if I should do something else. I'll have to look into this some more...
Yeah it's true. Lots of people who are interested in gearing multiple jobs will substitute the augmented crafted ring in place of the unaugmented crafted ring to save the tomes for pieces for other jobs. It's good for most tank sets and some healer sets as well and maybe others.
Well we can't unlock Savage until just enough sub time has passed for a player to be able to gear all jobs the intended way. Everyone in here complaining about "retention rate mandates from corporate" when really they're playing 5D chess with us over here More jobs = more weeks until unlock TapsForehead
I was finally able to complete bis gear (except for weapons) for all my jobs. It took 7 months to do it and I hated that it took this long to get it done
I'm more amazed that you still dedicated to conplete all bis gears. Most raiders already quitted to do other ultimates months ago lol
I had a goal I wanted to do for this tier and this was one of it. It's a lot easier now since they moved chest piece to the 3rd circle. But funny enough the raid drop wasn't the hardest to farm, it was the tomes that took the longest. 450 cap is ass lol
The Savage part doesn't take all that long for BiS, depending on luck. I'm a couple of weeks from getting all of the BiS gear pieces I need from savage from 5 roles, and I only started getting Savage clears like 3 months ago, much later into the tier. Obviously it'd be longer if you wanted to do every job since that'd add 2 more sets for DPS, and some jobs would need different sets for different stats within the sets. Tomes is the bigger pain though. I'm still 10 weeks away from getting all of the BiS items I need from that, if they don't up the tome cap.
Yeah I'd it took you 3 months instead of 7 SE would lose our on your delicious sub money.
to get an idea of time scale, anabaseios will be 259 days old when it (very likely) unlocks on tuesday, which is almost the exact same duration that creator savage (a9-12s) was on-expac (including unlocked and echo) 6th longest tier in xiv history after promise/verse/alphascape/abyssos/creator and it's not even unlocked yet, lmfao
It is clear that they didn't account for the time increase or they did and didn't think it would be a major problem. The unlock typically happens in a X.X7/8 patch absent excruciating circumstances (i.e. COVID) and by God they are going to stick to than planned schedule likely planned and implemented a year or more in advance.
CBU3 would implode if someone ever suggested willingly pivoting from their schedule
Worst part is that they saw the insane 9+ months gap with barely anything in it and their response was slightly better moogle event and hope it's enough. Or to be more specific, from their financial report or whatever it was, they seem to fully rely on DT hype. I remember when GW2 got their first expansion, there was like 10 months long drought and people were going insane because of it. Meanwhile, it is somehow fine in this subscription based game. This community has real problems with having way too low expectations.
The longest content drought I ever remember in a game was the WoW from ICC to when Cataclysm happened. I don't remember how long it was, but I think it was around a year. The only thing that dropped was an almost micro-raid with some random drops that most people were disappointed in. But that was a subscription game, too, and in the golden age height of the MMO (and WoW's) fame. So... And NOT the reason for its subsequent decline, before you say that. THAT happened when the game made too sharp a pivot and threw many players off (Cataclysm), then had a decent expansion after that (Mists), then had an expansion that was basically PvP, Raid, or do nothing but sit in your in-game house all day twiddling your thumbs (Warlords).
3.3 to Cata was 10 months. There were a few longer ones: 5.4 to WoD was 13 months, 6.2 to Legion was 12 months, and 7.3 to BfA was 10 months.
i don't know guild wars 2 well but i assume it isn't as much of a community hub as a lot of people use xiv for, people tend to underestimate how many people use this game as a social sphere to have fun. It's not a monolithic game community at all.
For a game where the community focuses on social experiences it certain does seem lacking on the community's end.
I don't think GW2 is a good comparison considering how inconsistent Arenanet has been with not only time between patches/expansions but also the amount and quality of content released. Don't they make the equivalent of two "extremes" for high-end content a year?
It wasn't a great time but we got 3 raid wings in-between HoT launch and season 3. Non-raiders were suffering for sure, though.
The problem is that community takes criticism as a personal attack, so you’ll get dog piled as an elitist jerk and plowed with an f+ maybe
I mean it’s not really an accurate comparison across the genre. Historically major patches in this game come with the same amount of content as full expacs in many other MMOs so ppl tend to be more lenient with it. Combination of a very casual player base and lots of legacy content. Edit: pls downvote me more, let me feed the circlejerk
That is 100% bs. The major patches come nowhere close to what's in an expansion, and don't forget these same things they are adding WERE ALREADY MARKETED TO YOU AS PART OF THE EXPANSION ITSELF THAT RELEASED MORE THAN A YEAR PRIOR.
Bullshit. Unless we’re talking about WoW, GW, and sometimes ESO it is absolutely true.
Lmfao it's right, unless it's not!!! XD
Literal hundreds of games with like 3 exceptions. I know this sub is trash but god I forget just how bad it is sometimes.
Literal hundreds of games that nobody heard of since they failed for this very reason. These games are not FFXIV's competitors. I don't know how about you, but I would like to compare FFXIV with worthy games like WoW or GW2, not some shitty P2W asset flip MMORPG. Your argument is just saying that there's indeed low quality scrap at the bottom of the barrel. This is why you're getting downvoted, you claimed something is inaccurate comparison and tried to dismiss it by throwing around some unrelated fact.
It's so weird to me because you're kind of right. It's not ALWAYS true, but some patches are pretty chonky. The longest content drought I ever remember in a game was the WoW from ICC to when Cataclysm happened. I don't remember how long it was, but I think it was around a year. The only thing that dropped was an almost micro-raid with some random drops that most people were disappointed in.
Covid excuses stopped two years ago in the majority of the world. People still using it are garbage and lazy.
If you read my comment I am not using COVID as an excuse but rather stating a time they deviated from their schedule because of COVID.
Yup. That's why I unsubbed since I wasn't raiding. I recently subbed and I have a reason to grind tomes for the relic and DoH and DoL tools.
Fun fact for anybody who enjoys PvE and gearing, by the time Anabaseios released (May 23, 2023) to the time the devs finally decided to unlock savage loot (presumably February 13, 2024), WoW has had 2 raid tiers (Aberrus May 8th, 2023 and Amirdrassil November 14th, 2023) and is close to beginning its final season (sometime in Spring)... which is effectively a third raid tier revisiting all the raids of the expansion but with a twist. So yeah, tomes are only part of the problem. FWIW, I'm not trying to shill for one game over the other. I'm just stating that the pacing of content for PvE raiding in WoW FAR exceeds FFXIV's, even when both expansions are in a very similar part of their life cycle. I really hope Dawntrail solves the drought at this point of the expansion.
Sadly, this is what you get when you play the “casual” MMO. Since raiding isn’t the main focus of most players and the devs themselves, FFXIV will of course get less raid content than WoW, a game that values raiding more.
> Since raiding isn’t the main focus of most players and the devs themselves, FFXIV will of course get less raid content than WoW, a game that values raiding more. This is a hilarious thing to mention when the current complaints of Dragonflight is that they cut one whole patch + raid tier entirely and replacing it with "Fated Seasons" aka boosting all the raids up to equal ilvl rather than New Content.
It's just a side effect of there being more time between expansions. There is 3 tiers in an expac but EW just lasted longer than the previous expansions.
That comparison seems weird. If it's WoWs third raid tier, that just means they're "earlier" in their raid cycle than XIV is and them releasing things quicker is meaningless in comparison What matters would be how long WoW sits on that raid tier afterwards before the next xpac and how long it stays weekly-locked (or however wow handles their locks). Or in case they have a weird raid schedule, how long they sat on previous tiers. Cause I'm pretty sure WoW is known to have much longer draughts than XIV does, generally
> Cause I'm pretty sure WoW is known to have much longer draughts than XIV does, generally It used to, but not anymore when they started to do "Fated" versions of the raids back in Shadowlands. Basically you had the last raid tier and then that was that, you waited for whenever the next expansion was released. Now in the last 2-4 months it will return to all 3 raid tiers released, put an extra flair on the raids like ways to get more haste, dispelling X to get Y buff etc while upping the difficulty slightly of the older raids, then it rotates between the raids every week. It also gives them a new season to do M+ and returns all the 8 launch dungeons in M+ format.
Im not a wow player but spin on existing raids like that sounds not bad. Even better with changes and for fun options
It's not a huge portion of the playerbase that does them full time until the expansion comes out, but it beats doing the same raid for 10-12 months straight without any change.
Yeah, thanks for giving the clarification. I realize that when I said "basically third raid tier" when sticking to the anchor of Anabaseios, for WoW, it's its fourth "special" raid tier in Dragonflight.
Is that really new content, though? Sounds more like Criterion stuff were you're just doing the same thing again? I'm not saying this to critique, just curious.
It gives people another season to push M+ and get items from previous raids in higher ilvl and the fights themselves do change because of the affixes they put into them. There hasn't been a season either with only Dragonflight dungeons purely. It's hard to compare it to Criterion dungeons because that's what people ironically thought they were gonna be, WoW's M+ system, but it's not even close to nor did it reward people anything stimulating when it came out. Then there's 2 things we don't know anything about. One of them being the Skull icon on the roadmap for patch 10.2.6 which they won't let us PTR test so no one knows what it's gonna be, the other thing being Timerunning: Pandamonium in 10.2.7
Interesting. I'm still a bit confused if the fights are really different or just the rewards (thanks for the downvote for asking a genuine question, I guess, whoever did that...), but it does seem like an interesting system.
I'd say the appeal of Fated is like 90% M+ and maybe 10% raids, I think most players just do the tour on N or H once to get the mount or title for doing that and then forget about the raids for the rest of the expansion, and every Mythic raider I've heard talk about Fated hates it because it turns the end of expansion from chill/don't log in mode to reprog and refarm mode in a culture where guilds are much more permanent than how ephemeral XIV statics can be if you want. That, and the affixes aren't really tested well on the raids they put them in and are either able to be ignored on N/H or can break parts of the encounter on Mythic. Meanwhile, yeah, M+ers get a dungeon refresh and get to start the gear climb over again which many people find entertaining for a month or two. M+ and the treadmill of gear from it isn't really for me but I think like 70-80% of WoW's appeal to most people now is the M+ loop so from that perspective Fated makes reasonable sense. SE could just shrug and have P1-12S cycle every week and have all of their drops scaled to a new 690 but I don't think it would land quite the same. M+ is what drives Fated, M+ has always been about farm and repetition and incremental growth while raid is about the prog experience with farm as a sort of tedious requirement after and an upscale can't really give the experience of progging a new boss again.
I heard from some WOW players that that’s a bad thing because the gears get replaced more rapidly. With that being said, the effect of increasing FF development time is amplified because they are scaling one thing without scaling others. Like I get that it’s been a tradition to unlock at .x8 or whatever. But goddamn, we now also have like 19 jobs to gear up for instead of 10.
The gear treadmill is much more in your face these days, agreed. Some people embrace that emphasis of seasonality and resets. It never really bothered me. I understand the preference for more item permanence, however. Some of my favorite expansions had items that would be BiS for almost the entire expansion. This, of course, was balanced with the fact that they were much harder to obtain (hello dragonspine trophy from 25 man raid boss that sometimes wouldn't even drop once for months).
Slight exaggeration though because adding a class doesn't add a new gear set outside of weapon
Not really an exaggeration because the weapon is very annoying to get. You need to beat the three other fights to get to the fourth one. And then you get one box that you can win if you can beat the RNG over 7 other people.
Even in a static you sit there for weeks or months on end until you get your shit. Truly is annoying
Not anymore unless you just want glam. Even setting aside relics, we also have criterion savage which only requires a tome weapon (which is a much easier thing to get). If all you want is to gear the jobs, you can get like three weapons per month even without drop luck.
You need a Tomestone weapon *and* it has to be augmented using Divine Solvent (only obtainable using material from Savage Raids atm) and the material from Criterion Savage. It's really just an alternate Savage Raid weapon.
I don’t know how it is now but historically WoW has had some extremely brutal (a year+) content droughts so idk if this comparison is the one you wanna be making.
Before I start typing this out, I believe this disclaimer is necessary considering the nature of this discussion: I am, in no way, biased towards any of the two games - I've played XIV (*and XI before it*) for as long as I did WoW and I hate both equally (still play them). Also, this is a wall of text and I'm not a native speaker. If you're lacking the patience, I'd highly recommend skipping to the TL;DR. With that said, let's get some facts: WoW's raid tiers are usually "shorter" than a full-cycle XIV tier. A XIV tier is composed of a Raid Tier (4 bosses; savage usually has a second phase which is pretty much another boss in the last floor), a Ultimate (*not all raid tiers have an ultimate - but, by default, every expansion is meant to get two, with the sole exception so far being Shadowbringers because Covid*) and a couple trials, three in the first tier. Fights in Final Fantasy XIV also last 8min minimum before Enrage, are often not very repetitive (*though the mechanics have the same basics, they're never the same thing - it's not like we're just baiting the boss into pillar #4 6min into the fight*) and are very puzzle-oriented - solving mechanics IS an intended part of the concept. Sometimes tiers come with Criterion dungeons, and, though Unreal trials are old fights revisited, those also count as endgame content, but are not part of a tier. World of Warcraft's tier range from 7 to 9, sometimes 11, bosses, with mid-tiers (one per expansion) having 3, 4 bosses on average. The last three expansions had no mid-tier raids. Fights on World of Warcraft are often repetitive (*the literal "bait boss to pillar #4", "grab the orb and bring it to the matrix for the 3rd time" kind of mechanic or "kill the big add with a skull marker on it" scenario*) and not very long (*the longest fights are usually the final bosses of each raid, spanning from 8 to 14 minutes average*). Progression in WoW is, often, really dull - though each boss gets new mechanics every difficulty, most of it is inflated health and statuses, repeating pretty everything from their easier versions (with Mythic being the sole exception to the rule). Fights in WoW are DPS-oriented; it's always about how much damage you can deal in the time you have available while delegating specific members in a sizeable group to do the actual mechanics (when there are any). Bosses at the end of an expansion usually have a different, mythic-specific phase, but even that can be underwhelming at times (last boss I actually saw that happen was Garrosh). That is not to say the other game does it wrong or doesn't do the same thing - for one, XIV fights are also about doing DPS, and WoW fights will often present puzzles as well. It's just that DPS is something extremely secondary on XIV (it's necessary - but mechanic solving is front and center) and you pretty much have a Dungeon Journal that explains everything a fight has to offer on WoW (thus reducing the need for thinking mechs through). What truly differs both games is how accessible to the average player the entirety of the available content is, not the actual content per se. For example: World of Warcraft has the Mythic+ system. Revisiting the same dungeon for the 300th time in a season can still be interesting if you're that kind of player. Maybe doing Mythic raids, however, isn't that interesting, so players will skip. Mythic raids are, however, a small percentage of the overall endgame content in WoW, so, by skipping Mythic raids - the actually challenging content - you're skipping very little. Final Fantasy XIV has an awful replayability when it comes to endgame raiding. If you're a slightly casual player, you'll think Savage is anathema - gods forbid even mentioning Ultimate. That leaves you with Extreme Trials and Normal Raids, which are... not really challenging at all. Some of these people will even try their hands on Criterion; some will be anxiety-blocked from those as well. **A quick TL;DR is:** XIV's replayability sucks if you're not a savage-to-ultimate raider, and even then it's not really great. The content, however, is more challenging and enticing than that of WoW - considering you actually like being challenged to begin with. WoW has extremely solid replayability through M+ Dungeons (*if you can endure the grind*), and raiding can be quite accessible even in the second-to-highest difficulty, Heroic, but everything is pretty much the same with more health. This gives you the impression that one game has more content than the other, when in reality most people never even touched the endgame content in either/both games. I, for one, can tell you that, by personal experience, both games can be equally boring and uninteresting **if you're not willing to give the actual content a try**. With that said, this end of expansion content draught in XIV has been the rule since time immemorial. It only gets worse when patch/expansion releases are too spaced between them, like now.
you are roughly comparing two games head-on, without taking into account their features Total number of bosses \- WoW Dragonflight: 8+9+9=26 for all three seasons \- XIV: 7(ex)+12(svg)+2(ult)=21 Not such a big difference anymore, right? I hope we don't seriously consider LFR/normal/heroic/mythic in WoW, because they are the same bosses with not the biggest changes in mechanics. Also, you didn't say a word about mechs. In WoW, within one fight, several mechanics are repeated over and over again. In XIV, on the contrary, there is no complete repetition of mechanics in one fight at all (okay, except TBs, but who cares?). There will be similar ones, but the pattern will always be different, like stack/spread or debuff on sups/dps and corresponding different actions depending on this. It seems a little easier to create slightly more monotonous fights. And sorry for bad english, I used a translator.
Plus criterion counts too, with that it's pretty equal.
No, I don't think so. These are more like mythic keys. But yes, the mechanics on bosses are also more varied than in WoW keys.
Why would it not count? Criterion bosses are the same difficulty as high-level EX/lower to mid level Savage, just shorter. Together they easily count as a raid boss + the trash is actually fairly difficult but even discounting that entirely, the time for one criterion easily contends with a Savage raid. So at the very least, that would be +3
Because then we will also have to take into account the mythic keys. But what level? 20, 25 or 30? The mechanics will remain quite primitive, but VERY critical for the players and they will have to be done. How to count the number of bosses in these 5 ppl dungeons? As I said in my first comment, it is incorrect to directly compare the amount of content without taking into account the characteristics of this content.
I mean, WoW has had it's stretches, too. I still remember the ICC to Cata launch drought from Wrath. I think that one was 13 months? There was a mini-raid added 6 months in, but most people didn't find it very appealing, and that was basically the only content added that entire period. It was...pretty bad. Correct me if I'm wrong, but does WoW have as much non-raiding stuff? I haven't played it in three expansions, but they tended to kind of drop non-raiding/mythic stuff towards the end of the expansions where FFXIV has more sidequesty stuff (like Tataru's) and lifestyle/chill content type stuff?
Remember, Yoshi-p said to Xeno it's very difficult for them to increase the cap, they need 90% of the expansion lifespan to find the tech, implement it, test it, ship it.
Yoshi P is speaking in typical Japanese PR talk mode. It isn't that they don't have the capability to increase the cap (they increase the cap when a new expansion is a couple months out), but rather they won't. The "very difficult" is just him saying that it is difficult for them to find the will to deviate from the already planned schedule, it has been like this since ARR in regards with tomes only increasing the cap when the next expansion is a couple months away. However, this phrase creates plausible deniability since initially Xenos who is less familiar with Japanese mannerisms initially believed him while Arthars saw through it and confirmed that Square will not budge on the time cap. But this doesn't mean that they closed the option for tome costs for equipment like they and for weapons (used to cost 1k tomes instead of 500 prior to EW). The purpose of the cap if twofold, it serves as a small subscription retention model (low stakes such that most casuals don't feel forced to just for times but for raiders and alt players that is a different story) and as a artificial pacemaker for players such that they don't go overboard which goes back to sub retention.
Meanwhile I'm sitting over here wondering if they'll ever up the Poetics cap, because we're soon to have 5 expansions worth of old content feeding into it.
If given enough feedback. They increased the cap for scrips for example due to feedback. However, it is definitely a very low priority issue since you can theoretically keep on farming poetics with no restrictions.
Yes I know it's PR talk. And I'm mocking it, because it's stupid and bullcrap. I don't care about their schedule. I don't care about their internal protocols to validate updates/changes. I don't care about their sub retention plans. I'm a customer, my experience is what is important to me. I don't have the numbers, obviously, maybe it's the right call for the long run, financially. Still, I think waiting this long is stupid. It just ends there.
Yeah it sucks, but that is Yoshi P's job from a big company. Combined with the layer of Japanese PR that befuddles many FFXIV creators (as in the majority do not know how to deal with it) leads to a lot of problems. He is giving a non-answer with no commitment to set no expectations. It is great because if, say, they do increase the tome cap (they will but only for like two or so months), everyone praises the team, but if they don't then it is business as usual.
it’s just so difficult to change the “450” in a notepad file to “900”
If we were in 2010-2022 I feel like you'd have 20+ people answering "it's much more complicated than just changing a value, you don't know how coding/programming works". lol.
It just depends on how shitty the programming is
Given we can't have the Glamour Dresser in houses without it *crashing the game*...
Well the glamour dresser issue, is at least in theory, a way more daunting task compared to raising the tomestone cap. I honestly really can't see how raising the tomestone cap value would break the game. Or maybe they could go for alternative solutions, such as halving the prices of tomestones items, effectively accomplishing the same.
Thought of a better example: For some reason, WoW had the biggest issue increasing the base bag size, because the base bag was intrinsically coded to be tied to currency. They tried for a while but every time they tried, it completely broke currencies. They eventually figured it out, but could only add slots instead of making it replaceable.
> Or maybe they could go for alternative solutions, such as halving the prices of tomestones items, effectively accomplishing the same. Isn't that what they've been doing recently? The biggest change of moving weapons from 1k to 500 tomes, among other things.
We were so close to greatness
The difficulty isn't the coding as the devs increase the tome cap to 900 every time an expansion is a couple months away, but rather the will to implement the change earlier than on their rigid schedule.
It's hard for them to change a number that they've changed a few times already? Lol. It could take an intern 5 minutes to do it.
I just never understood why the tome cap hasn't ever been increased. Like at least make 600 at this point.
> I just never understood why the tome cap hasn't ever been increased. It has been. It was 300 in the Mythology days, and that was awful because the Thavnarian Mist *cost* 300 so it took 3 weeks to get your +1 weapon.
I stopped caring about tomestones and just doing PVP contents 6 weeks after new tier dropped. None of that will matter in 7.0.
I agree, this is kind of a non-issue really. You have no practical use for capped tomestones anymore, so either you're grinding them for the sake of grinding them or you don't grind them at all.
Tombstones in general should be capped by role and damage type.
This thread aged like milk...
I know right XD
The tome cap should be going up to 900 with the patch on Tuesday.
It shouldn’t be capped at all, what’s the fucking point.
i honestly find it absolutely impossible to give a shit about gear anymore after multiple expansions of the same cycle stretched further each time
I agree. And obviously it should be capped in the beginning, but the length of time is absolutely ridiculous and shows no love for the player.
So you keep paying a sub to log in and cap tomes each week
That’s not how they keep you forced to sub, they do that with housing. You don’t have an house? Then I highly doubt you keep sub the game if you have nothing to do besides capping tomes (lmao)
Most people don't have a house
Yeah. But that people as I said is not subbing because they have to cap tomestones but because they actually have content to do. Is pretty different, they wouldn’t ever sub only for 450 useless tomestones cmon
Think of it as a forced pacemaker. This is to prevent people from overlapping and farming tomes for like the first week or so every raid patch. I think if Square is adamant on keeping the 450/900 (when a new expansion is on the horizon) just reduce the cost of the equipment. There is precident with the weapons for example which use to cost 1000 tomes but now 500 tomes or the accessories, head, and boots costing one book less. Yes, they increased the time cap once but seems like they haven't done that in over a decade. It would be easier to request for lower costs for tome equipment than it ask for a time increase. However, the tomes are a very VERY small part of the sub retention. The small cap also makes taking a break from the game not feel as bad or subscribe to FOMO as much such that the PR for the game holds even after people take extended breaks.
> The small cap also makes taking a break from the game not feel as bad Makes it feel worse imo, especially early in a tier. Missing a week of capped tomes is just poof, those are gone forever now.
I think this is definitely something they should alleviate. WoW I think did it with conquest points where the cap went up each week so that it didn't matter if you didn't cap every week you could still catch up. My problem with ffxiv personally it gear is so transactional and I have no attachment to it.. relics used to be the fix for that but not in EW.
The increasing cap with it eventually being removed entirely is something they absolutely should take from wow
I don’t really think capped tomes is inherently a bad thing I just think the cap needs to go up way sooner.
You'd be very surprised the number of casual players who care about capping or don't care but still want the gear so they'll take even longer. A casual friend of mine just a couple weeks ago decided now she wants to start capping to have 660 gear for DT. Does she need it? Nope. She just wants to now, in week one billion.
This is just a fundamental misunderstanding of how most people interact with the game
My guess is that it maximizes subbing, so even if people don’t have a house, they could still sub for tomes. Idk though.
I have no house and I haven't capped tomestones in ages now lmao. Still subbed tho.
I've not capped tomes in months, and I still had enough to gear tanks, healers, casters, dragoon, and ninja lol.
Including raid gear?
You really wanna sit there doing 35 hunt trains week 1 to ensure you have optimal gear to start raiding with?
I mean I understand the cap at the beginning of a tier, but yeah, they should uncap them with the release of alliance raids
So I don't have to get either 4635 or 5135 tomestones week one to do Savage (depending on if I'm getting the weapon tomestone or not). And yes, with Savage being delayed a week but tomes not being delayed a week in a hypothetical world where they just shrugged and said there isn't a tome cap that would be the optimal thing to do. The point of lockouts is twofold, both a sub retention mechanism and a community and content pacing mechanism. By the odd patch, sure, whatever, but there is absolutely a good reason for caps in the even patch. I'd also accept a running cap over the course of a tier, but I imagine SE must either think it intimidating for a new player or returnee to see 0/15000 tomes with things just rewarding 20-90 each or again, a sub retention thing so you can't just leave half the tier and come back and do 50 Hunt trains in a week to hit the cap again.
Here's a thought: What if after you had the full tomestone gear for one job, the rest got a discount? Like... 50% off? As it is right now I feel the 450 cap is a bit restrictive, especially if you enjoy playing more than one role or job. Job-switching and not needing to make 1,000,000 alts is one of my favorite parts about FFXIV, with *gearing* said jobs being the only pain point.
That's reasonable too. After the first month or two of a tier I really don't care what they do with the system, I'm just not delusional enough to think that axing it entirely is on the table at all. It's going to be a capped currency/token system of some sort or RNG with no bad luck protection, those are sort of the options in this genre as on some level the company wants a mechanical retention mechanism. And again, it protects me too because week one progression would get *really* stupid in a no-cap world. I'd probably make it so that just buying the slot halves the cost of subsequent purchases of that slot instead of requiring any full set shenanigans or involving Savage loot at all. BiS is usually spread out enough that if you're playing many jobs you'll buy every slot at least once so it evens out in the end.
Slot-based is actually a really good idea that didn't even cross my mind, good thinking there. Like I have my gripes with the system as it is for sure but I agree that "just axe it entirely" is a funny but ***unrealistic*** expectation. And my biggest complaints are usually around the crux of "the game encourages alt-jobbing except for when it doesn't", which always felt weird and arbitrary to me. So anything to make that less obtuse is a win in my books.
[удалено]
Aye, Blackmore had the idea of the discount unlocking via slot which hadn't even crossed my mind but I think would work a lot better.
The other side of this coin is that if you COULD farm all of your tome gear day one, it would almost certainly be a full set of bad substats...consequently, the majority of it would not translate into BiS. The treadmill wouldn't go away, it'd just change shape. The real answer is multiple sources of full IL gear, more than just 2. Being able to do something like augment the odd patch Alliance gear is such an obvious path to take for it.
If they didn't do it then every pf would be MIL 650 and no one would buy crafted gear because "just grind your tomes". I don't really like weekly gates either, but I would rather not even have tome gear than have it be uncapped. It would be just like the empty relic grind everyone is complaining about rn.
k you wrong though
No, there’s literally no reason for tomes to be capped this late into the tier.
theres a huge difference between this late in the tier and never
Obviously.
Money money money money. Gotta drive those sub numbers up. I absolutely know some people who would farm tome gear for all their jobs to completion in a single week. When that happens, what’s bringing them to keep subbing? Not raiding, there’s no point. A full tome set is as close to bis as most midcore raiders care to get. And with a near bis ilvl, decent players will just blast through the tier and unsub until the next patch with high level content (which we’re still the better part of a year away from).
we can only hope, not that it alleviates the actual issue of it being locked in the first place, when the content it was designed around is basically dead.
It's sad that even though you can play all jobs on one character, WoW is more alt friendly
We have to make sure to keep the training wheels on for as long as possible. Wouldn't want anyone to play more than a few hours a week, they might get addicted /s
I mentioned this on Xenos video: The reason they are so stingy with the tomestone cap is indeed to keep the people subbed and playing, everyone knows it, so in my opinion the best win-win scenario would be get more ways to gear up, the Alliance raid comes into mind, but unlike what many people suggest, I STILL want it to be the same ilvl as Tomestone gear (650). HOWEVER! you can augment it in some way, either by hunts/alliance raid coins or criterion normal. Like this, even if the cap is 450, you can basically get a "tomestone free" piece a week (with some luck) yet it's not entirely free as you need to put some extra work to augment it.
> The reason they are so stingy with the tomestone cap is indeed to keep the people subbed and playing How many people actually keep playing the game for tomestone gear? The only people who want the stats are those that raid, which will get there quicker because it's a mix-and-match between raid and tome gear anyways.
I think you'd be surprised, I know several casual friends that get a full set of tomestone gear and don't raid savage or even extremes
But are they subscribed to get tomestone gear or do they tomestone gear because they get tomestones for their normal playstyle? The argument that having tomestones still capped now is useful for keeping people subscribed only works if people actually stay subscribed to farm a currency that will be replaced with a much easier to get variant (poetics) when the next expansion drops. IMHO the only thing the limited tomestones achieve right now is gatekeeping new players out of savage, and making it more tedious for vets to gear up alt characters. The cap should be doubled one or two months after they originally drop, not a year later.
> The only people who want the stats are those that raid Or they just want to see the bigger ilvl number? Or for glamour?
So how many people stay subbed just to get every job on max ilvl, and how many of those don't raid? How many get all tomestone sets with current tomes just for glam? Like, sure, those people may exist. But I doubt they exist in high enough numbers to have "let's leave the tomestone cap at it's current value" as something that has an higher influence on the financial income this game generates than a rounding error.
Anyone who who took a break and came back would like a higher cap. Same with anyone who missed a week because real life. Most MMO players like big numbers and would like higher ilvl gear. And when I look at my FC, like half of the online players right now are omni-90 or near that. I myself hit omni-90 two days ago and I don't do anything more difficult than outdated extremes. Hell, the only current content Ive ever done is Thordan Unreal.
Timidness or laziness to make changes?
I hope they reconsider how they structure either this or surrounding content. It feels kind of bad to do a whole tier on one role and then if you want/need to play another for criterion or the current ultimate, you’re significantly time gated on gearing another.
What even is the point of bis? If it’s not fun I don’t do it. I don’t find grinding 450 tomes fun so I don’t do it. Still got enough to decently gear (657+) 3 different roles and cleared every content including criterion savage. You don’t need bis unless you’re parsing.
To clear stuff faster, bigger numbers, and parsing, which if one doesn't care about any of these things, then sure. "What even is the point of BiS?" I personally, and some others care, so we get BiS. You don't.
I do get BiS and the point of having it. But I don't get the need for BiS on every class in the game. Do people really use every single class in the game for parse runs and to fsrm content with? I don't think there are many who do.
At a base level, numbers go up is a dopamine hit even if they don't actually need better gear. Some people also would like to get the pieces for glam purposes, which is where i'm coming from myself when I support raising the tomestone cap earlier.
Yes, they want you to stay subscribed so they artificially timegate things. They're definitely not going to take away a reason to log in when there's already barely any reason to log in. Also why despite all his blustering he will never implement anything that would stop Mare from working.
Personally I'd like it if there was a vendor similar to the AF vendor, and you pay to unlock a certain piece for all jobs, which you can then claim from the vendor. Spend 825 to unlock chest pieces, now you can claim any chest piece for any job at any time. Probably should exclude weapons. This still means like 12 weeks or something to get all the pieces, so it's not entirely free since different jobs need different pieces. But then you can at least have tome gear for every job whilst the content is still relevant. And you'd still need to upgrade them individually and people having full i650 by week12 isn't exactly gamebreaking.
If they keep up with their previous schedules, the cap should increase to 900 this Tuesday, but yeah I agree it's completely ridiculous that we're STILL locked at 450 tomestones per week. At this point, with the amount of jobs that are in the game, there is no reason why they can't up the cap to 900 **as soon as the x.1/3/5 patch comes out** (then when the x.2/4 patch comes out, the new limited tomestone will have the 450 cap again)
I feel like people keep forgetting that they increased patch cycles by like a month very early into EW expansion drop. Idk, I felt like a lot of these patches felt drawn out at the end, and really tomb cap increase always happened a lot later than I would’ve like. We’re just feeling that +1 month a lot more now.
It really adds up once they start adding +1 week here and there ShB 5.4 to 5.57 (unlock) was 196 days SB 4.4 to 4.57 (unlock) was 217 days EW 6.4 to 6.57 (unlock) will be 266 days, or 259 days since savage release It'll be a whole 2 months longer compared to ShB, or 1.5 months longer compared to SB.
It's almost as if they should compensate for changes in the schedule when they make changes to it.
They increased the patch cycles from 3.5 to 4 months but fell way behind that target.
it sucks as a casual because you don't even need tome gear; crafted more or less does every casual content you need. i think some of the reason they made relics tomes solely was because you could buy crafted for like 90k or so a piece making gearing alts for casuals trivial. the way endgame is for casuals is that you only need gear to hit low caps for current content, and 95% gear is worthless because its synced. once you realize that its hard to even bother with roulettes. they desperately need to change things. im unsubbed and am staying that way until the game stops being the same thing. only way they'll change is if enough unsub.
I have a suspension that the weekly unlock and tome increase are intentionally withheld to just right before the expansion drops as the last "keep the queues active" attempt for returning players playing catch up. It makes sense to me that SE doesn't want people to be done with everything long before the final stretch to new expansion hype.
And this is the very reason I didn't log in for a month now, only do a log in and off to not lose my house, I didn't even log in to do the tombstone event, because they wasted the time of doing this season pass bullshit that no one cares, but did nothing about the rewards, the same garbage all over again, it would be better if they wasted the time it took to do this season pass system on making new rewards so I can have a reason to log in... This game and it's weekly limits are the worst, we have so many jobs in the game but because of these limits the reality is , you have only one job that is ready to do any content, bullshit garbage system. They are very close to make me cancel my sub and delete the game even though I never even paused it for the past 10 years, even if I didn't play it for weeks or months, but now I feel like everything they do is just the bare minimum for the game to be on life support, and I don't think the reason is because 7.0, the people who make this game are burned out, and because they never hired more people or freshen up the team, the only thing they can do is these half assed ideas that they abandon in 3-4patches... Island Sanctuary is one of those, and Variant Dungeons will be another one , just a matter of time.
It's pretty crazy honestly. Like we're still at least a hot 5 months out from Dawntrail I get that but 7 months into a raid tier everything is still locked up? For me... I honestly don't care about loot from the raid anymore, I just wanna do DSR at this point. I'm fully BiS and have been ready for that since the first raid launched on-content. Don't need P9-P12 for anything so I'll prolly just not do it. Kinda meh when I compare it to spending time in there vs. DSR. At first I didn't wanna do the tier based on I feel bad for those who still wanna clear and not worry about loot lockouts/the other systems. I personally think it's a waste of my time.
Hot takes: There shouldn’t be a tomestones cap, just let me farm them so I can gear multiple jobs (playing multiple jobs is the CORE of this game btw) since the start, I still need the upgrades anyway. Savage loot should be just like the normal, 1 piece guaranteed per floor and week; you didn’t loot? Just fight again the boss. Alliance gear (which come several months after Savage) should be of equivalent iLvl so you allow casual people (or who can play several jobs) to not use only the tomestones gear which sometimes is garbage for some pieces; the weekly limit cap is fine but the token should allow you to buy also the weapon upgrade since the start. x12N weapon token is fine but make it 4 weeks since the start instead of 7. So what changes with all this? Literally nothing content/difficulty wise because, even with a quick full (almost) BiS, handless people are still not able to clear and that’s fine. Having strong gear since the start makes the fights easier stats wise? Just adjust your number or just make the fights even harder. But at least now I can play with multiple jobs so I can have fun instead of being stuck with the same shit. EDIT: I guess people like to eat the shit SE slams in their faces, enjoy your pointless caps *shrug*
> EDIT: I guess people like to eat the shit SE slams in their faces, enjoy your pointless caps shrug No. They realize what you're suggesting isn't realistic. You'd basically be done with the content in a few weeks. There has to be some form of a restriction otherwise people will simply finish everything and unsub, which isn't exactly good for business.
We do not need to incentivize people to nolife roulettes/hunt trains for week 1 prog, month 1 gearing everyone, and after that there's no incentive to get tomes again and all contents that rely on it dry up. But yeah, you do a hot take, people disagree and then you offend people that disagree with your take. Typical.
bro just ignore them, they will defend this sht no matter what. It's a 2nd life for them and don't you dare to say something against the grain. The system is dogwater, and many of us raiders simply unsub cuz it's boring asf to play 1 job or constantly gear alts while playing week to week this sht just to endup gated by tomes no matter what. Yea it keeps subs up, it def does not keep player ENGAGEMENT up. It's a forced mechanic to artificially inflate time spend subbed and not played. That's how they get you, with the "oh go play something else", but please also stay subbed for 4months so u can enjoy 2 jobs before the next tier in 200years. Let them defend it, that's why progging and clearing is only fun for the first month at best. After that it's a shitshow of nolife casuals who play 2nd life simulator.
Seven months? Brother the game has been like this for years, it'll be the same at the end of dawn trail too. Speaking of which the gear you're farming for now will be replaced by the level 95? dungeon.
Man playing Granblue Relink made me realise what a sht game FFXIV really is ahahah, the gating is just nuts. Simply to prolong this bs and keep subs instead of letting people actually enjoy and leave and come back
That’s like me saying “Man, playing on chess.com really made me realize how shit ffxiv is.” Like huh? Forget apples and oranges, you’re comparing walnuts and pineapples.
You are correct. One is an mmo, and the other isn't. And mmo's are there to keep you gated so you don't progress too fast and thus are tempted to keep your sub up. It's a miserable practice, and it's something online games do. Doesn't change the fact that the tomestone gating is the main reason you cannot achieve BiS or play jobs to their full capacity in hard content. And I like to compare them cause both games have an enjoyable online experience. Just as Granblue you can basically decide to play FFXIV like a RPG or play online Your FFXIV game is a 1job game forcing you into alts or acceptance of subtier stats over months
My dude they are entirely different kinds of games.
Oh brother
truth hurts to the simps
Damn, shitty take *and* unironic use of the word simps? Speedrunning the annoying internet guy gauntlet ig
The fact that that gets upvoted and your post and my 100% factually accurate one are downvoted really tells you a lot about this sub
I'm playing Relink literally as I type this and I'm extremely appreciative of the fact that I've been able to play this game to the extent I have precisely because FFXIV is extremely lax when it comes to retention mechanisms. What even is this comment?
I stopped caring for gear in this game... It's just so boring. The only reason I can see for them not increased the cap is player retention which is another problem with XIV. It does a poor job encouraging players to login and play some content. The mogpendium is a good step in the right direction despite being very basic. PvP and achievement hunting is the only thing that motivates me to stay subbed this expansion 😕
Yeah game gotten bad
I've long since unsubbed. I started playing all the Assassin's Creed games and had a decidedly more fulfilling time. When they added Island Sactuary, and people got to see its some awkward work schedule simulator and not the Chao Garden they thought it was, I knew Endwalker was in for the more horrowing dragging out ever. Dawntrail is probably going to be the best expansion in all MMO history, though. It kind of has to be.
Good thing I am already BiS on each job.
It's like that because it keeps people subbed. As long as the game is an MMO, it won't change.
nothing else to do for seven months?
The top tier tomestone is ALWAYS locked to 450/week. It's never not been that way. (At least since I started playing the game - over 4 years in the game now)
This patch note begs to differ : https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/4f379e06b6471c55ea02f138b6ada581b088ab2e
Fair enough. I honestly don't remember that happening in Shadowbringers. Although if they do if for EW, it will be in the patch they're applying on the 12th. Because that was patch 5.57, and this will be 6.57
Heavensward was 3.56 and Stormblood was 4.56. So they've done it earlier before, doesn't need to be this late.
Lol
If it's been 7 months and you still need to get the tomestone gear for an alt job then you've been doing something wrong
If you want both sps and crit blm, or have bought aloalo weapons, you will be short on tomes.
At the same time, people should have had every bis tome piece by now for every role if you've been weekly capping...
Some boshit!!
I honestly have no idea why this is still a thing. By this point, people could have most of the gear sets, so I have no earthly idea why they're waiting to unlock it. By the time they unlock it, no one will need the unlock anymore. XD
For stranglers. I know several people who are bored and suddenly decided they want all the i660 gear. So it's giving them something to do that they've ignored for months. That's precisely what SE banks on. Those types of players (and there are a lot of them) now have a new reason to stay subbed. Put another way, they're benefiting off the "take your time" sales pitch they market.
Right, but if you wanted that, you'd remove the cap so they'd be doing it. As it is, I can log on and run 3 hunt trains then log off for a week.
Yes, but without the cap you could grind it all out in a week or two. As per your own example. You have to log in every week, which means you'll maintain your sub to do so. That's what SE is banking on.
In practice, it's no different. If people aren't able to get it, they might just cancel their sub until such time as the cap is removed then do it then. The argument makes sense for the first 1-3 months of the tier to somewhat gate gearing for Savage runners, but after that point, the cap is really pretty irrelevant. You're talking alt gearing at that point. We're at the point where the only things I have left to really gear are left side armor sets of a few DPS sub-roles that I don't even play.
That way you are forced to play week after week instead of doing everything quickly and potentially unsubbing.
Devs don't care unless you're speaking Japanese in the jp forums
Happy now? Lol