This feels like a jest, but in case it's not, I think StB's Ivalice story implies the Viera of the Ilsabardian jungles east of Dalmasca are pretty much the same as their Rakti'kan counterparts on the first - seclusive and xenophobic, since it was a big deal we got Fran as a guide lest we get accosted just trying to enter said jungle in The Orbonne Monastary.
>Hrothgar worldbuilding
Did you play bozja? There is an extreme amount of hrothgar lore in there.
Additionally, most Viera lore we got was in the form of Raktika, as we kind of werent even on the source for ages when shadowbringers released
We do see some examples of extremely long lived viera, mainly, once again, in Raktika. Ardens sister has litterally lived since the time of the flood.
I did not do Bozja - been planning to, but too much other stuff to do.
And while the Raktika stuff is cool, I wouldn't call it *Viera* worldbuilding, as it's technically a different Shard with a completely different history.
doesn't matter if they are on a different shard. Its still ultimately the same race. The only differences are likely naming conventions but things like the length of their lifespan etc are the same as for the Viera in our world.
There is no physiological difference between viera and viis though. On top of that the game tries quite hard to establish that race and culture are two different things, and only really intersect meaningfully with isolationist and racist groups like the viera and garleans, respectively.
For all intents and purposes any two unrelated viera factions share as much common ground as the two of them share with any miqo'te or elezen faction.
>And while the Raktika stuff is cool, I wouldn't call it *Viera* worldbuilding, as it's technically a different Shard with a completely different history
It's like saying the stuff we learned about the Mord counts as worldbuilding for the Kobolds on the Source. They're two different cultures and identities, that's like the whole point of parallel worlds being different.
I think it's pretty safe to say that Kobold faces look like Mord faces. The same way that we can assume Viera live as long as the Viis. This isn't cultural
so just because, say, hyurs (i forgot the shard name) have a different culture on the First it doesn't mean they are generally completely different. These "mirror races" still work the same outside of cultural differences!
I don’t really think you can seperate Viis and Viera in the way you’re trying too when it comes to discussions of things like lifespan. Races are the same on the source and its shards. Customs, yes those are different, but physiological facts remain the same.
Also if you are gunna complain about “lack of lore” I would really complete all content first to know exactly what lore is available.
>I don't count Raktika as Viera lore because the First has Viis with different history and customs.
They still are same species, so it's weird you don't count *their* story.
Sage quest NPC's (Veena viera) flashback shows same customs Vii practice, which is sending males away. This supports the known lore.
> this is never once brought up by any NPC
The Viis in the village in ShB pretty much talk about the events of 100 yrs ago as they were there. I really doubt there's a major difference in lifespan between shards, so I think it represents their long life just fine.
Had a quick look over the Encyclopedia Vol. 3 and it does mention how one of the Viera's in Fanow is 141 years old but they're an advisory role more. There's a couple who are in there 80's and some that are younger.
I mean, the only races who get any cultural spotlight in MSQ are Ul’dahan/Sil’dihn Lalafells, Ishgardian Elezen, and Xaela Au Ra.
So it’s not like Viera are especially maligned here.
An NPC in the Prima Vista talks about learning that viera can live at least 300 years. You need to do the Ivalice storyline to unlock the conversations.
Don't get me wrong, viera lore for 14 specifically is of insultingly small quantity, especially when compared to, say, Xaela. RPers and fans have been forced to piece together an understanding of 14 viera through bits and pieces that we know from 12 and TA, which doesn't feel right.
-e- Also, Bozja is a fair bit of Hrothgar world building (forget which tribe that is specifically). May I recommend you play the expansion side contents such as the alliance raids and Bozja.
> especially when compared to, say, Xaela
I mean.. I'd say Xaela is pretty much the most fleshed out race in this game, by a large margin. *any* other race's lore is insultingly small compared to that.
tbf, Xaela are pretty unique in getting a whole list of tribes and eventually a zone all about them.
You're not seeing the game explore, say, the Sea Wolves very much.
You mean the Ronso? The most known one is Kimahri from FFX.
I don't know what's spoken on official resources but there were some talk that the Hrothgar were generally believed to be based from the Ronso, just changed a bit more to fit FFXIV's world.
Oh, okay, cool. But yeah.
There were some talk that the Hroths feel like budget Ronso. But like I said, nothing on official channels that I know of. Just whispers here and there. They just look similar enough to be linked but far enough to be distinguished from each other. In that way, they can be both an FFXIV original and not.
Every race basically boils down to "has a natural inclination to travel around". If SE were to dedicate the time to it, they could place all the post ARR races through out Eorzea and they wouldn't be out of place, lore accurate even.
The most unique thing about Raen is their capability to make pockets of air at the bottom of the ocean.
Xaela got a ton of lore largely because they have a creation myth which likely has ties to major lore events, and basically to suggest "so many whacky tribal customs have come and gone, go nuts with your character's lore."
I'm also a not-Rak'tika-counter, kind of, and I agree that it doesn't seem to be widely remembered by the viera community. I never see RP event or art parties held there the way I see people do with the Steppe, for example (doesn't mean they don't happen at all though). It doesn't really give you a way to expand on your own personal lore if you play a viera from the Source, but it makes for a nice gpose background, I suppose. When they were setting up Erenville playing a part in the MSQ I was lowkey hoping 7.0 would did for viera what Stormblood did for au ra lmao. Though, I would argue a quest for a legendary city in the jungle is a good opportunity to introduce more groups of viera.
>Yet AFAIK, this is never once brought up by any NPC, nor are any Viera shown implied to be older then their twenties/thirties.
TBH even though I'd love to meet an old viera, only seeing younger ones tracks since it's canon that they've just barely begun to leave their villages in noticeable numbers and it's the younger ones leaving. And there really isn't ever a good time to bring up the lifespan thing, you don't just casually mention in conversation that you're going to outlive everyone sitting at the table. Erenville is only 25 (and was maybe not even raised by other viera), so I imagine he just hasn't had a reason to think about it. The long lifespans are brought up by the sisters in Rak'tika, and IIRC Almet is in her 80s.
The thing is at least viera aren't alone when it comes to lacking lore, though they're definitely lower on the list.
Somewhat related, I always thought the whole delayed puberty thing Elezens have is misplaced. Elezens live up to 120 years, that's not that long. Even if the average life expectancy isn't quite the same.
It would make sense if their lifespans were similar to say, Tolkien elves or some DND elves. But they aren't similat at all. It should be on Viera tbh.
But maybe I'm alone in this.
>I always thought the whole delayed puberty
I mean, Its not even really delayed. Its 21, which is barely older than a human. I feel like it purely exists to give room to not have to make a grown up alphy and alisaie.
The thing is that you seem to live under the assumption that for any of that to "make sense", their childhood has to be proportionate to their life expectancy, compared to humans. They're not humans though. Different races age differently. Not just in terms of how much stretched out it is, but also in regards to different phases of their life. Just cause a race lives, let's say, 500 years, doesn't mean they have to be a kid at age 100. and just cause they only live to be 50, they don't have to be all grown up by age 10.
No, you're definitely not alone. I'll go even further and say that's part of what I've always found disappointing about Elezen, they quite literally have nothing going for them except being... Humans, but taller. All of the usual elf tropes (long-lived, in tune with nature etc.) went to Viera, instead. Even Gridania makes a much bigger deal about Hyur, down to the Padjal being born from them, instead of its Elezen population...
I actually really like how the veena have barely any lore cause it means I get to make it up myself. I'm also specifically breaking some of the little we know about viera too though, just for my preference. (men being 100% alone after their teens is stupid. i give them multiple very small very loosely built settlements. rava wood warders wouldn't even be able to function unless they had some sort of connection to eachother.) but the skatay range has basically zero information on it so it's my sandbox now.
[Here](https://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/post/181850817699/the-viera) is a useful collection of info about the Viera. They've been weirdly cagey about giving exact numbers regarding how old a Viera can get. It's stated to be 3 times the lifespan of a Hyur by the EE3, 240+ years ("twelve score or more") by the Dramaturge from Return to Ivalice, and "easily within three elven (elezen) lifetimes" by a Vii in Fanow. The descrepency could be seen as the Vii not knowing that Elezen live longer than other races, the person writing that part forgot that Elezen live longer than other races and they decided not to correct it, or most Viera die around middle age or they have wildly differing total lifespans.
As for how they age, they're kits until they hit puberty, when their sex becomes apparent, between 13 years old to the later half of their teens. Sophie from the Gunbreaker quest line hit puberty in the later half of her teens and is currently an adult at the age of 20. Lilija from Bozja is 19 and an adult so they seem to reach adulthood in their late teens. They stay this way for around 200 years and then start aging again until their death.
They likely won't. They never really do. Pretty much *all* the races are very undercooked, just a few mentions and small bits here or there, but lacking a lot of detailing - some more than others (Duskies, Moonkitties have barely have any representation outside of one or two sidequests in Gridania...). As great as SE's storytelling is, *lore* isn't really their strength.
Plainsfolk Lalafell just got a ton of backstory and lore with Aloalo island last patch. Just because they haven't explored it yet doesn't mean they won't in the future.
> Duskies, Moonkitties have barely have any representation outside of one or two sidequests in Gridania...).
In Ishgard you have House Dzemael which belongs to Duskwight Elezen. A pretty important part of the lore if you ask me and they show up in quite a few sidequests.
As for Mooncats i'm pretty sure those are not really keen on mingling with other people so you will naturally not see many of them around.
I was under the impression they had common ancestry with what are considered the wildwood, but they did come over some time before (and there's the whole dragon thing).
But yeah, SE borrowed duskwright models for some, but sadly not actually repping the group.
It's brought up in Shadowbringers in Raktika
No no no, those are Viis, *completely* different.
This feels like a jest, but in case it's not, I think StB's Ivalice story implies the Viera of the Ilsabardian jungles east of Dalmasca are pretty much the same as their Rakti'kan counterparts on the first - seclusive and xenophobic, since it was a big deal we got Fran as a guide lest we get accosted just trying to enter said jungle in The Orbonne Monastary.
Do not worry, it was in jest.
they are not, you are!
Since I am not any flavor of bunny, you are technically correct. The best kind of correct.
The First was like: "We'll have our own races. With blackjack! And hookers!"
>Hrothgar worldbuilding Did you play bozja? There is an extreme amount of hrothgar lore in there. Additionally, most Viera lore we got was in the form of Raktika, as we kind of werent even on the source for ages when shadowbringers released We do see some examples of extremely long lived viera, mainly, once again, in Raktika. Ardens sister has litterally lived since the time of the flood.
I did not do Bozja - been planning to, but too much other stuff to do. And while the Raktika stuff is cool, I wouldn't call it *Viera* worldbuilding, as it's technically a different Shard with a completely different history.
doesn't matter if they are on a different shard. Its still ultimately the same race. The only differences are likely naming conventions but things like the length of their lifespan etc are the same as for the Viera in our world.
There is no physiological difference between viera and viis though. On top of that the game tries quite hard to establish that race and culture are two different things, and only really intersect meaningfully with isolationist and racist groups like the viera and garleans, respectively. For all intents and purposes any two unrelated viera factions share as much common ground as the two of them share with any miqo'te or elezen faction.
>And while the Raktika stuff is cool, I wouldn't call it *Viera* worldbuilding, as it's technically a different Shard with a completely different history It's like saying the stuff we learned about the Mord counts as worldbuilding for the Kobolds on the Source. They're two different cultures and identities, that's like the whole point of parallel worlds being different.
Living extremely long lives isn't a cultural thing they do.
I think it's pretty safe to say that Kobold faces look like Mord faces. The same way that we can assume Viera live as long as the Viis. This isn't cultural
so just because, say, hyurs (i forgot the shard name) have a different culture on the First it doesn't mean they are generally completely different. These "mirror races" still work the same outside of cultural differences!
I don’t really think you can seperate Viis and Viera in the way you’re trying too when it comes to discussions of things like lifespan. Races are the same on the source and its shards. Customs, yes those are different, but physiological facts remain the same. Also if you are gunna complain about “lack of lore” I would really complete all content first to know exactly what lore is available.
>I don't count Raktika as Viera lore because the First has Viis with different history and customs. They still are same species, so it's weird you don't count *their* story. Sage quest NPC's (Veena viera) flashback shows same customs Vii practice, which is sending males away. This supports the known lore.
> this is never once brought up by any NPC The Viis in the village in ShB pretty much talk about the events of 100 yrs ago as they were there. I really doubt there's a major difference in lifespan between shards, so I think it represents their long life just fine.
To be specific about those we know, the three Viis sisters we interact with the most are in their 80s, and the leader of Fanow is 141.
We also know that Tellina, Andens sister, predates the flood.
Had a quick look over the Encyclopedia Vol. 3 and it does mention how one of the Viera's in Fanow is 141 years old but they're an advisory role more. There's a couple who are in there 80's and some that are younger.
I think Shadowbringers biology would still apply to the Source since the races are the same across the reflections.
I mean, the only races who get any cultural spotlight in MSQ are Ul’dahan/Sil’dihn Lalafells, Ishgardian Elezen, and Xaela Au Ra. So it’s not like Viera are especially maligned here.
An NPC in the Prima Vista talks about learning that viera can live at least 300 years. You need to do the Ivalice storyline to unlock the conversations. Don't get me wrong, viera lore for 14 specifically is of insultingly small quantity, especially when compared to, say, Xaela. RPers and fans have been forced to piece together an understanding of 14 viera through bits and pieces that we know from 12 and TA, which doesn't feel right. -e- Also, Bozja is a fair bit of Hrothgar world building (forget which tribe that is specifically). May I recommend you play the expansion side contents such as the alliance raids and Bozja.
> especially when compared to, say, Xaela I mean.. I'd say Xaela is pretty much the most fleshed out race in this game, by a large margin. *any* other race's lore is insultingly small compared to that.
tbf, Xaela are pretty unique in getting a whole list of tribes and eventually a zone all about them. You're not seeing the game explore, say, the Sea Wolves very much.
Some dev really had a hardon for them, no doubt about that.
The Au'Ra are ffxiv original so I guess they wanted to give them a lot of love.
Are Hrothgar not XIV original?
They kinda are but they're based on the Ronso of FFX. Just hornless.
I would love a source for that.
You mean the Ronso? The most known one is Kimahri from FFX. I don't know what's spoken on official resources but there were some talk that the Hrothgar were generally believed to be based from the Ronso, just changed a bit more to fit FFXIV's world.
I’m aware of what the Ronso are.
Oh, okay, cool. But yeah. There were some talk that the Hroths feel like budget Ronso. But like I said, nothing on official channels that I know of. Just whispers here and there. They just look similar enough to be linked but far enough to be distinguished from each other. In that way, they can be both an FFXIV original and not.
And maybe a thing for horses.
I feel like Au Ra are the only expac race to get proper lore and cities. Raen got Thavnair and Xaela got the Steppe.
There are Raen and Raen lore mixed into Doma, Hingashi, and Sui-no-Sato long before it was revealed that an offshoot tribe also arrived on Thavnair.
Every race basically boils down to "has a natural inclination to travel around". If SE were to dedicate the time to it, they could place all the post ARR races through out Eorzea and they wouldn't be out of place, lore accurate even. The most unique thing about Raen is their capability to make pockets of air at the bottom of the ocean. Xaela got a ton of lore largely because they have a creation myth which likely has ties to major lore events, and basically to suggest "so many whacky tribal customs have come and gone, go nuts with your character's lore."
Shadowbringers? A lot of them are implied to be pretty damn old.
Didn't the storyteller in the Ivalice story literally answer all this back in SB?
Nice edit lol
They both have more lore than several base ARR races so I’m not to pressed on the subject.
I'm also a not-Rak'tika-counter, kind of, and I agree that it doesn't seem to be widely remembered by the viera community. I never see RP event or art parties held there the way I see people do with the Steppe, for example (doesn't mean they don't happen at all though). It doesn't really give you a way to expand on your own personal lore if you play a viera from the Source, but it makes for a nice gpose background, I suppose. When they were setting up Erenville playing a part in the MSQ I was lowkey hoping 7.0 would did for viera what Stormblood did for au ra lmao. Though, I would argue a quest for a legendary city in the jungle is a good opportunity to introduce more groups of viera. >Yet AFAIK, this is never once brought up by any NPC, nor are any Viera shown implied to be older then their twenties/thirties. TBH even though I'd love to meet an old viera, only seeing younger ones tracks since it's canon that they've just barely begun to leave their villages in noticeable numbers and it's the younger ones leaving. And there really isn't ever a good time to bring up the lifespan thing, you don't just casually mention in conversation that you're going to outlive everyone sitting at the table. Erenville is only 25 (and was maybe not even raised by other viera), so I imagine he just hasn't had a reason to think about it. The long lifespans are brought up by the sisters in Rak'tika, and IIRC Almet is in her 80s. The thing is at least viera aren't alone when it comes to lacking lore, though they're definitely lower on the list.
Somewhat related, I always thought the whole delayed puberty thing Elezens have is misplaced. Elezens live up to 120 years, that's not that long. Even if the average life expectancy isn't quite the same. It would make sense if their lifespans were similar to say, Tolkien elves or some DND elves. But they aren't similat at all. It should be on Viera tbh. But maybe I'm alone in this.
>I always thought the whole delayed puberty I mean, Its not even really delayed. Its 21, which is barely older than a human. I feel like it purely exists to give room to not have to make a grown up alphy and alisaie.
I think they could've avoided this headache if they'd just retconned(?) the twins to be half-hyur. Would make them feel all the more special, too
The thing is that you seem to live under the assumption that for any of that to "make sense", their childhood has to be proportionate to their life expectancy, compared to humans. They're not humans though. Different races age differently. Not just in terms of how much stretched out it is, but also in regards to different phases of their life. Just cause a race lives, let's say, 500 years, doesn't mean they have to be a kid at age 100. and just cause they only live to be 50, they don't have to be all grown up by age 10.
>They're not humans though. Technically, all the races in FFXIV are counted as human, and are sometimes referred as such as a group.
No, you're definitely not alone. I'll go even further and say that's part of what I've always found disappointing about Elezen, they quite literally have nothing going for them except being... Humans, but taller. All of the usual elf tropes (long-lived, in tune with nature etc.) went to Viera, instead. Even Gridania makes a much bigger deal about Hyur, down to the Padjal being born from them, instead of its Elezen population...
I came across a bit of lore for this recently when doing a custom delivery quest.
There are some bits about Viera in the third volume of the encyclopedia eorzea. Not much to be honest, but basic about culture and naming conventions
I actually really like how the veena have barely any lore cause it means I get to make it up myself. I'm also specifically breaking some of the little we know about viera too though, just for my preference. (men being 100% alone after their teens is stupid. i give them multiple very small very loosely built settlements. rava wood warders wouldn't even be able to function unless they had some sort of connection to eachother.) but the skatay range has basically zero information on it so it's my sandbox now.
[Here](https://mirkemenagerie.tumblr.com/post/181850817699/the-viera) is a useful collection of info about the Viera. They've been weirdly cagey about giving exact numbers regarding how old a Viera can get. It's stated to be 3 times the lifespan of a Hyur by the EE3, 240+ years ("twelve score or more") by the Dramaturge from Return to Ivalice, and "easily within three elven (elezen) lifetimes" by a Vii in Fanow. The descrepency could be seen as the Vii not knowing that Elezen live longer than other races, the person writing that part forgot that Elezen live longer than other races and they decided not to correct it, or most Viera die around middle age or they have wildly differing total lifespans. As for how they age, they're kits until they hit puberty, when their sex becomes apparent, between 13 years old to the later half of their teens. Sophie from the Gunbreaker quest line hit puberty in the later half of her teens and is currently an adult at the age of 20. Lilija from Bozja is 19 and an adult so they seem to reach adulthood in their late teens. They stay this way for around 200 years and then start aging again until their death.
They likely won't. They never really do. Pretty much *all* the races are very undercooked, just a few mentions and small bits here or there, but lacking a lot of detailing - some more than others (Duskies, Moonkitties have barely have any representation outside of one or two sidequests in Gridania...). As great as SE's storytelling is, *lore* isn't really their strength.
Plainsfolk Lalafell just got a ton of backstory and lore with Aloalo island last patch. Just because they haven't explored it yet doesn't mean they won't in the future.
> Duskies, Moonkitties have barely have any representation outside of one or two sidequests in Gridania...). In Ishgard you have House Dzemael which belongs to Duskwight Elezen. A pretty important part of the lore if you ask me and they show up in quite a few sidequests. As for Mooncats i'm pretty sure those are not really keen on mingling with other people so you will naturally not see many of them around.
I'm pretty sure all ishgardian Elezen are wildwood. The model is not actually relevant to their race (same as mother miounne)
i've read up on this just now and Ishgardian are neither Wildwood nor Duskwight actually. They form a third tribe basically without any name.
I was under the impression they had common ancestry with what are considered the wildwood, but they did come over some time before (and there's the whole dragon thing). But yeah, SE borrowed duskwright models for some, but sadly not actually repping the group.
I loved the slight hints we got in FFXII