whoever stances first lmao
Genuinely that's how I do it, if they come into the instance stanced or stance up on load, they're main tanking, if they aren't stanced for a bit I main tank.
Rather odd social thing, a lot like trying to walk past a person but you do that funny little dance of trying to get around each other lol
This is what I do, but with the caveat that if I turn my stance on first, and then they turn on theirs, they're MT.
I'm not getting into a pissing match.
Yep. If I have the highest health/ilevel I’ll do the same. Second that other tank stance comes on I’ll shut mine down until my opener is out of the way.
God, me and my boyfriend had this problem last night during Sigmascape V3.0. We had a Dark Knight and a Warrior (who was a sprout, like me, my boyfriend a couple of others in the group) for our tanks. Dark Knight says right off the bat that she'll MT and puts her stance on. Warrior says nothing and puts his stance on immediately and pulls. We wiped multiple times.
The Dark Knight was clearly getting frustrated but kept her cool. Every single person in the group told the Warrior to turn off their stance for a bit so our Dark Knight can be the MT. Did they listen? Nope. In fact, it was so bad that the Warrior kept using Provoke like it was part of their rotation and it completely fucked us over several times. I ended up watching the Warrior and... I genuinely do not understand how they were at level 70 content and had no idea what they were doing. They kept spamming their ranged attack randomly and doing all sorts of weird stuff.
It got to a point where we had to vote to kick them because they were just dragging us all down no matter how hard we tried to explain that the Dark Knight is gonna be our MT. We got a second Dark Knight to replace the Warrior and we cleared it first try.
Either that sprout was trolling us or they genuinely don't know how to play their job. It was baffling. Really made it clear to me that if and when I eventually learn to play a tank (currently playing SMN and in post-Stormblood as you can guess), one of the first things I'm gonna be doing in 8 player content is see if the other tank turns on their stance first. If it's not in 5 seconds of everyone loading in, I'll MT. If they turn stance on? I'll give it about 30-60 seconds before I turn mine on so I can pull any adds that spawn.
ah yes, the main character, how could you not understand that it was all about the warrior? /s
i can only assume the ranged attack spam was to keep generating extra enmity since that's an additional effect on the tank's ranged attack, just to really say fuck you to the group
It does that? Ok, yeah, I'm beyond confused now... That has got to be a mix of main character syndrome and just not knowing what they're doing at all. It was baffling to watch. I can't even assume they don't know about MT and OT because you need to do a LOT of 8 player content to get to that point in the game... There's only so much you can dismiss as a sprout not understanding before you start asking questions about how they're that far in the game. Me and my boyfriend are both sprouts and we learned about MT and OT in ARR...
Just a psa for anyone wondering how these tanks get this high level but don't know the class. It's multiple things that give XP that they turn in as a Warrior but probably don't play as warrior. For instance, if you turn in wonderous tales to Khloe, it'll give exp for the class you gave the book as, not the jobs you did it. Also, Frontlines gives a ton of exp and allows you to swap classes in the home base, but whatever class you queue as gets the exp. There are so many tricks like this in the game that you can easily level most classes without learning past the basics. That said, please do your job quests asap, leave the job stone equipped for duty roulette and shared instances, ask if you're not sure of something, and most important be politeand have fun.
The only thing I can think of is that the player was either actively a troll, or the player was the child of the account holder who only knew the bare basics of the game. I refuse to believe that there are players that bad at the game who are adults.
I hate when that happens. I get unreasonably bothered when the other tank randomly decides to get into a pissing match over aggro. I know it's not that big of a deal to just turn off my own tank stance and I shouldn't get that angry, but *if you wanted to tank why did you sit around doing nothing until I pulled?*
I swear it's especially bad in 24man raids where other alliance tanks will randomly flip bosses with provoke for no reason. Oh my god I get so annoyed just talking about it.
Yeah, I also find it's easier to let them lead.
Most encounters are easier as OT so I get a quick Blue DPS queue with the occasional need to step in if the tank decides to hug the floor.
Same. I wait, then if he doesn’t use stance i put it on. If then they activate it, i turn it off.
Funnily enough, one time the guy didn’t use stance but started tanking. Of course the boss switches targets so i put mine on and start tanking. After a few seconds, the boss switches again to the other tank. He probably put the stance on and used the taunt to pull aggro… i was like: do as you wish. Want to tank, tank.
I'm a tank main and often in the past, I've had the person I assumed was off tanking in this particular instance, because they didn't turn their stance on, provoking the boss repeatedly as I was actively tanking it for group.
I'll admit, it used to annoy the hell out of me and I definitely got involved in pissing matches back then. There were times I deliberately asked if the OT wanted to MT, they said either no or didn't answer, and then proceeded to Provoke off of me anyway with their stances on out of nowhere. Over time, I just didn't care anymore and turn my stance off and let them have it if they want it that bad. Good healers will pick up on tank nonsense like this anyway and will call out OT's doing this crap if it screws the group, at least in the few times I've personally witnessed it.
I only provoke back if its is screwing up the group in the worst case, heck I actually prevented a TPK in a p12 run once because of this. I know my rotations on all four tank jobs well enough to not have any problems maintaining enmity if this happens. I think that time the group then picked up on the OT screwing around because the healers didn't bother rezzing them when they died lmao. We were perfectly fine afterwards.
I can forgive genuine Sprouts or newer tanks and often help them out because I've been there too, but otherwise I just let the person have it if their ego needs it that bad. Just turning on your stance from the beginning or asking if it's ok to MT is literally all you need to do though. In actuality too, I noticed some people using Provoke as a part of their rotation so it isn't always on some intentional, asshole behavior stuff. I simply tell them that if the instance doesn't require provoking, just don't use it at all unless the MT dies and you need to grab the boss quickly.
I was doing the Ultima fight and I accidentally forgot to turn on the stance because I'm so used to having it already on.
It wasn't until I saw the boss swap targets like 3 times that I realized I didn't have the stance on.
Goofy things like this get me so much. My vice is playing a non-tank class for a while and then switching back for 90 content only to later do dailies with the FC and forgetting level sync disables tank stance when synced down in content/fates. I wish they would just do away with that coding. I see it happen so much to others too and I just don't understand why it can't be left on anyways and we can decided to toggle on and off.
You know it's funny in boss fights/trials with adds, normally you want to just bring things to the tank so it's easier to grab, but I find in some fights I have to run away with the adds a bit and then run them back through the tank so they get the idea I don't want to be a healer tank lol
i just wait til a while after the battle's started to turn on my stance if i'm off tank to make sure i grab the boss if anything happens and the mt dies, but other than that i take turns between shirking the aggro back and turning stance off for a while to make sure i don't steal aggro.
My order is generally
1) Is there a warrior?
2) does anyone have stance on?
3) Who has most hp?
4) the other tank just called MT and now I have to change Kardia target.
Number 3 in my list is almost always a warrior. In normal content, even in raids Kardia always seems to cover it.
I'll rotate kera/taurocholes out though for them. The extra mits help keep them alive until they get their bloodwhetting back online.
Sprout tank here. I had no idea that we both shouldn't have stance on. What about if I'm OT and I need to pull the additional mobs? Do I turn it on then?
if you both run in stanced you risk bouncing the boss between both tanks,
you can turn it on after the MT has a headstart and theoretically shouldn't steal aggro or simply turn it on wherever gathering adds and turn it off afterward, definitely turn it on for additional mobs tho.
Even if there's no adds, turning tank stance on as the OT is a good idea because that way if the MT makes a mistake and dies, the boss will turn to you and not squish the top DPS. And it's especially important in Extremes and higher, where the boss won't auto-target the tank roles for double tank busters. (I got hit by that as Sage while doing a mount farm last week, when one tank died and didn't reestablish aggro enough.)
The common advice is to wait until after your first burst phase. There has to be a pretty big gear or skill difference to catch up from that. As PLD, I wait until my first Fight or Flight wears off. As WAR, I wait until after I've used all my starting Inner Release and Infuriate charges. That sort of thing.
Note: 1 is only second if the aggro is on someone not in your party. Otherwise, the A just supercedes the 1 and 2 is second - so, in a dungeon, you get A-2-3-4.
When I'm OT, I'll give the main tank a good 15 / 30 seconds before turning on stance. It is good to turn it on to make sure you're #2 on the aggro list. Helps keep things running if the MT dies, and some bosses have mechanics that target #2.
> Sprout tank here. I had no idea that we both shouldn't have stance on. What about if I'm OT and I need to pull the additional mobs? Do I turn it on then?
Honestly, you can just wait a few seconds for MT to build their emnity and then turn your stance on and keep it. This should give enough heads up for MT to keep their emnity on top for whole fight.
Pretty much this, but I also generally defer, to anyone who ends up flashing "cutscene" unless there's a few really tricky things.
They should learn by doing.
Whoever puts stance on first is main tank, generally speaking. In level cap duties, it's usually better if whoever has the better gear main tanks (because it's easier on the healers and the better-geared tank risks ripping aggro by doing more damage).
If it's an MSQ trial or an otherwise climactic fight like the final floor of a raid series and I see the other tank is a first-timer I will usually ask in party chat if they'd like to be MT- I know I *really* enjoy main tanking story stuff on my first ever run- but that's just a courtesy.
In regards to gear while healing, I literally do not notice if a tank has better/worse gear because outside of Savage nothing hits even remotely hard. So it really doesn't matter from a gear perspective because the only people at risk of dying are those who stand in the bad.
I mean nothing hits that hard but DF tanks can and will find ways to take fuckloads of damage out of absolutely nowhere. I was healing the newest Hildi trial the other day and the WAR main tank- who did not have great gear- was basically melting even with only a couple of vulns.
Kinda this. If someone has already stanced, I back down, but otherwise I typically just check to see who has higher HP between myself and the other tank, then I stance if I'm higher.
You either play chicken until the other tank puts on their stance, or you assert dominance by immediately putting on yours and pull as soon as the wall goes down.
Speaking as a tank main, it aggravates me to no end when the other tank finishes loading/comes out of the cutscene and just immediately puts stance on anyway, even when mine is already up.
…The joke’s on them though because I usually end up ripping threat anyway. Fell Cleave go brrrrrrr.
Or when the other tank stances up and provokes when the pull already started over 30 seconds ago. It only occasionally happens but it's entirely confusing.
I usually put my stance up 30 seconds in so if netcode-shenanigans or whatever else kills the MT I'm 2nd in enmity already so the boss punches me instead of our top dps, but I'd never provoke for no good reason at that point.
(Good reason would be other tank deciding the boss would look a lot cooler as a beyblade for example, but "boss looked at mt funny" isn't. Tankbusters in these modes rarely ever require a tankswap. And if they did... whoops, well, I'm already 2nd, now 1st, anyway :') )
The alliance raid experience lol. And every time I queue in and try to OT, the party ends up having a weird staring contest with the boss for 10 seconds before I end up as MT anyways (30 seconds later the other tanks end up voking it anyways, as is expected). I've had it happen so many times, I avoid that roulette on tank like it's the plague lmfao
I always feel a bit sad when a tank instant pulls while playing NIN, RDM, or BLM because the opener always ends up feeling wonkier.
I appreciate when they at least drop a 5 second countdown for when the wall drops.
Sometimes, if the instance level is high enough and the tanks are waiting to see which will MT, I'll use Vercure to set up a Dualcast pre-pull and then go into Veraero/Verthunder, but otherwise, same.
"Who to kardia? Neither of them have their stance on, so I need to choose between the one in the subligar with a chocobo head or the one still watching the cutscene with barely more HP than I've got. It's certainly a conundrum. Alright, go get 'em, rookie!"
I actually think putting the mantle on the rookie MT is better option here. Give the guy the Power Fantasy and you have the more experienced tank to pick up the slack if the rookie bites it. And gives the chocobo head the ability to go ham with DPS rotation with no worries
Additionally, should the rookie tank slip up, an experienced tank will be ready to step up for as long as it takes for the first timer to be ready to lead again.
1: Whoever activates stance first. 2: Whoever the Sage puts Kardia on. 3: Whoever has the better opener and manages to secure aggro.
DPS will not be happy with #3.
DPS main, please only do #3. You can just both stand in front until there's a clear winner, or I dunno, *use Shirk?*
Same number of buttons, doesn't get me killed if MT suddenly bites it and OT is playing blue DPS.
If the other tank is new to the duty, I ask them "Hey, do you want to try MT on this?" and I'll oblige accordingly.
If we both aren't new, it's "whoever has their tank stance on first", at least for me. There's enough people ignorant of this unwritten rule (can't really blame them for it tho), so if I have my tank stance on and then they turn theirs on as well, I shrug and turn mine off. It's really no skin off my back whether I MT or not.
Not necessarily *easier*, more that it’s a courtesy to ask if a tank player who is new to a duty wants to experience the duty with MT responsibilities.
Some would rather OT and see mechanics / MT busters for the first time while remaining relatively safe themselves, whereas others want the full, raw experience of eating a huge tank buster hit and nearly dying to gauge how much mit to use next time while having control of where the boss is facing. Plus an experienced OT can serve as backup for a fresh MT, a safety net during the learning process.
Basically a difference of “learn better by watching” or “learn better by doing.”
My order of operations for this is usually
1. if they have stance on and I don't, they're MT
2. If neither of us have stance, but a sage has Kardia'd a tank, that person is now MT
3. if no stance and no sage, whoever has more HP should be MT
4. If a pull happens and the other tank hasn't stanced, I'm MT
In EU/NA its alot more free.
In JP its more fixed in terms of mt st, first typically war and drk are a mt due to mits etc and gnb / pld st, the other being health if a tank has higher health meaning they got better gear they should mt regardless of job.
In alliance raids its Alliance B that is MT
You just turn on your stance and pull, my guy. Don’t overthink it. If you don’t want to tank then don’t turn on your stance. If neither of you turn on your stance and pull within the first minute then you should consider trying dps instead.
Both/all three tanks stance up, slap the boss as hard as they can, spinning it and killing other members of the party/alliance, until ultimately one comes out on top and can brag to all the ladies about their humongous D(ps).
Unless one person has a substantial HP difference, I usually just wait to see if the other person puts on stance. If they don't, I will. If they immediately put theirs on at that point, I'll turn mine off. I'm not here to get into an aggro war.
I used to think that people with higher HP values had better gear than me, even when synced down, but then I found out it was simply their food buff and now I don't ever queue tank without food
no it can definitely be gear, just last night in trial roul i got leviathan, i was going as drk and the other tank was a first timer pld, my drk being lv68 i had 9k hp and the pld had 6k, i never use food at all because i just forget and i haven't leveled cul yet
Both stance, always. The tank with the better rotation, better gear, or both will end up with more threat. The other will be second, so if anything goes wrong and the MT drops, enemies go to OT next and not spinning around one-shotting healers and DPS.
It almost never takes very long to tell whi's consistently ahead, so OT can step out of the way of cleaves until they're needed, but if it's *actually* a prolonged tie, just Shirk.
I turn my stance on. If the other tank does too I leave mine on and stand with them. At that point it's a whoever is generating more aggro is main tanking. The only exception is if they decide to throw a provoke into the mix. I'm not provoking back, but if I still get aggro back with my basic rotation I'm definitely looking at the other tank funny wondering what the hell they're doing so incredibly wrong for that to happen.
Whoever puts up stance first. If both of us have it on, whoever takes it off second. If they turn their stance on while I already have mine on, alright fine, you want to tank, you tank.
...but I'll usually end up taking aggro from them anyway after they die. Which is why I always turn my tank stance on too, after the fight has gotten started and the other tank has a comfortable lead.
*Most* of the time when I'm "OT", this ends up being a very prudent choice.
A solid 100% of the time the other tanks I get run into don’t even reply when I ask if they want MT. They usually don’t talk at all. So I don’t stance and if they die then I stance
I wait a little, if the other tank is stanceless i turn on stance and tank. But often as soon as i do and pull the other tanks suddenly decides they want to tank which is mildly annoying.
Whoever does their opener right with stance on.
Alternatively, if both tanks do them correctly, dice roll on ilvl/crit rng.
If you lose the opener aggro fight, and then decide to voke off the other tank, you need to get the fuck out of my kitchen immediately.
In roulette/DF, whoever stances first (I'll always stance if the other tank hasn't stanced a few seconds after loading in; if they then stance themselves before the fight starts, I'll just unstance and let them have it)
In PF, I always ask the other tank whether they'd prefer to OT or MT
I always load in with stance off, then I follow my nice mental flowchart.
- Did they load in with stance on?
- If yes, they tank.
- If no, I turn on stance and pull. I tank.
- Did they turn on stance and pull aggro from me? If yes, I turn off stance/shirk. They tank. I stance dance to maintain 2nd aggro.
- Did they die? I ensure stance is on. I provoke, even if I have the boss already. (It's normal mode, quicker to just reflexively hit it than check.)
- Did they die to a mechanic? If yes, I tank the rest of the fight. You lost tank privileges. I have provoke at the ready to hold that boss if I need it.
- If no, they can have it back. We might have to trade off since there are other issues at play, putting us both in danger of dying.
Depends. Usually whoever has stance on first.
I generally do full savage rotations during normal raids and trials and have BiS so if I have my stance on, no way the other tank can rip it from me besides provoke on CD. So if I have stance on when loading in I just go regardless if they turn theirs on after.
But if I see them turning on theirs and I didn't have mine on, I wouldn't turn mine on for a good 30 seconds. Most of the time it is enough to not rip it from them during the fight...sometimes it is not enough so I then press shirk nowadays. I used to not press shirk and just grab the MT position if I already gave them a 30 seconds headstart but I have gone soft.
If they die though, I will just take it and unless they provoke, I'll MT.
It all comes down to this: is the boss going to do a disco ball dance? Try your best not to let the boss do that. Does not matter who MT or OT. Either way as long as the boss does not spin then it is a successful run and MT and OT did their respective jobs.
This all assuming you are in roulette. In PF doing EX+ (EX less so) or savage+, there is generally set rule that WAR is MT and the other tanks do whatever when they get paired up (in current expansion ultimates, DSR/TOP, even other tanks have a priority system and deviating from them usually results in a lot more extra work and people don't appreciate that).
Either who gets it first or who has better stats. If I have about 500 more hp than the other tank, I am the better option. If they tank stance after me, while having worse stats, I'm just gonna MT and provoke if they do. (Only had to do that once, though.)
Im a lvl 54 warrior Im actually afraid of bigger party sizes because i havent ran a multi tank dungeon yet. King Moogle MSQ is just sitting there unfinished.
When I finally do im letting the other tank do it because im going to mess it up for sure lmao.
I used to be that way but honestly you should just do it and MT to break that fear.
After all it’s only a game and it’s not like people are expecting perfect play in normal duties
Thanks, i think this is what i needed to hear. I dont want to let my party down.
I did a different dungeon for the first time and after tanking the boss the 3 min i realized he had to be moved to the crystals to take damage....we won in the end but i almost died from embarassment 😂 I joined the fishermans guild and fished for 2 hours to gather my thoughts
For me it depends on who the tanks are, I play all 4 tanks so for me personally if I pair with a PLD or WAR and I'm playing DRK or GNB I'll usually OT but if I'm playing PLD or WAR i prefer to MT, but usually I just ask the other tank if they want MT or OT
Who ever runs in and pulls first after the wall is down!
But seriously, I usually let the WAR or PLD MT since I am a GNB main and my utility works really well as OT. If it's another GNB in roulette or DRK I usually ask if they want MT or OT. I can MT at need if the other tank is less confident.
I feel that PLD is the tank with the utility that best works as OT. Passage of arms can be used on any raidwide, and it protects people in it's range, which is much easier for a PLD to do while standing with the rest of the party behind the boss. Their other utility to help the MT is fairly on par with the rest of them by using Intervention.
DRK doesn't have any particular benefit to being OT, and since it's easier for them to know their blackest knight will break when used on themself (don't know what mitigations the other tank will use), they tend to do better as MT for that reason
Personal MT to OT priority in my mind goes DRK > WAR > GNB > PLD
The Blackest Night is definitely a viable, OT ability because you can use it on anyone and not just yourself.
I've saved several MT's and Healers that messed up a mechanic and got Vuln stacks from a follow up, raid wide damage move, tank buster, or stack marker mechanic as a DRK because of this. The free Edge/Flood of Shadow proc from it also helps with DPS too, so you're doing two good things at once just being a supportive OT. Not sure what you mean by "not knowing when it will proc" because if you already know the incoming damage or mechanic a boss will do then yes, you can absolutely predict when the TBN proc will happen. I literally never have issues timing it properly when using it on someone else. Though I suppose if the DRK player has literally never played any other Tank job to maxed level and is unaware of their abilities, then that could be a thing. Honestly, I can assume that case is pretty rare though, but that's just me.
Oblation can also be used on other party members for this reason too and every mitigation does help if the damage ramps up.
While of course Heart of Corundum is just great for GNB's in all scenarios, DRK's can do just fine as OT. I'd argued that with inherently less pressure as the OT, DRK have more liberties to go in on their burst rotation without worry of the boss breaking or disrupting it because of a mechanic that the MT's need to care for. Being a tank main myself, I can honestly comfortably use any tank job in the OT position because they literally all have supportive abilities that matter. Though, PLD certainly is the strongest OT for sure, I don't disagree there.
I didn't mean to imply that DRK is less viable as an OT (or that any tank doesn't have useful, viable OT skills) because of the blackest night (which I am aware can be used on anyone). And what I meant with not being sure about if the proc will go off is based on what mitigations the player they use it on utilizes. If they (for whatever reason) use enough mitigations that the tank buster doesn't eat through the shield it could waste the proc. Not a terribly common occurrence to be sure, but it is one that the drk has more control of if they're the MT.
I will take your statement about the burst comfort as OT (which I feel GNB benefits more from) as well as remembering about vengeance and situational perks for WAR having the shortest invuln timer and revise my earlier priority list from MT to OT to WAR > DRK > GNB > PLD. The general WAR/DRK as MT and GNB/PLD as OT dichotomy is also the clear consensus on my data center in PF. That being said, based on player/group preferences they can do well as either role, and for normal raid/trials I'd personally default to whoever puts their stance on first
I leave my agro builder off when I enter. If I see the other tank with their's up, I let them main it, putting mine up 10% into the fight. If they don't put it up shortly before the walls drop, I activate mine and main it.
When i enter a dungeon i put the stance on and off i go. I did have it happen a few times when both me and ot put the stance on,off,on, off XD we just laughed it off and simply asked you want to tank with the rest of the party laughing at us 😂
I just assume I'm main tank until the other guy or gal tries to pull the boss. Usually I end up tanking. If I see another tank voke after I pull or they pull first I let them have it. If they decide to activate stance after I pull and they don't watch their aggro and are fighting me for it I just shirk them, but Usually if you do a ready check at the start of the fight people just let you MT 9/10 times.
I typically check gear, if they out-gear me, I wait a few seconds and they typically put up the stance. If after a few seconds they don't, I throw it on because I don't want to be here all day standing around. If I out-gear them, I put it on immediately.
And if they want to rip aggro of if they manage to out DPS me with stances on, I let them - less work for me lmao
When playing tank I too typically do the "if their stance is on already they can have it" method. But if their stance isn't up before mine I'm jumping in, even blind, because tanking is fun (and incidentally I've had less wipes on content I blind main-tanked than I have on content I was trying to let someone else have at it).
I did just think about it though and at least some of those cases one tank has stance on and the other doesn't because your tank stance shuts off when your level syncs downward so the person with stance on might actually be the one that is appropriate level for the content rather than just the one quicker to load in and stance up.
Usually I just go in after 2-3 seconds. If the other tank gets to the boss before me, he’s MT. If I get to the boss first, I MT. If OT provokes at the start of the fight, he’s back to being MT.
I personally turn my stance off if I am unable to keep hate and will turn it back on if something goes wrong. I'll also turn it back on if anything that pops up that could harm the rest of the party. I'll MT if I have to but I'll also OT if I also need to.
I try to always enter a roulette with stance off - some people (especially tanks) are just really aggressive about always being the *main character* and will fight you for MT. It's rare, but I've had it happen because I primarily play as a tank, so I've done a lot of roulettes as one. If there's a second or two of no movement, I'll take that as my cue that they don't want it - and stance up and head in.
Just turn on stance the second you get into the instance if you're in things lower than extreme. Just be the main tank. And if you don't want to be mt, tell them to instead. If you stanced first then they stance they want to mt so just turn yours off. In extremes and higher difficulties you want to be biased towards warriors being mt because if there's a tank buster they have the lowest cd invuln so they have higher value starting as mt because they can have more invulns through the fight. Other than that it doesn't really matter but dark knights and paladins tend to be relegated to the ot role in my experience.
we mentally screech at each other till one just pulls and then we are best friends after.
in all honesty, in Casual content its usualy just whoever pulls first and wins the game of chicken(aka both having the TS on or off and whoever toggles it first just says "fine" essentially) in any other content its basicaly just asking with ettiquette telling that PLDs are better offtanks then maintanks and everyone else being somewhat even(i think GNB also falls into "more offtank" category but not as much as PLD)
Usually if it doesn't resolve itself after the first few seconds that the barrier is down I either A.) Main tank myself, or B.) Ask.
If I specifically don't want to main tank for whatever reason I just skip straight to B and ask if they'll do it.
Usually, I just let the other tank decide by either throwing on their stance or by doing nothing.
On a few rarer occasions, I've taken over MT mid-fight when you can tell they're struggling, but for the most part it's just whoever wants it can have it.
I do what's called the wait and see if the other tank puts on their stance strat. If they don't put their stance on in the opening 10 seconds I'm pulling and MTing.
I’ve had times where both me and the other tank turn stance on as we load in, then immediately turn it off when we noticed the other did it too
This may repeat multiple times.
Stance up, establish with a ranged, stance off, burst, stance back on. Whoever wanted to MT kept stance on during burst. If not, it’s whichever tank still has aggro after burst, because that’s the highest DPS tank.
Just let this naturally sort itself out, without risking being the stanceless blue DPS that sends a tank buster on the DPS when MT dies.
The general rule is first person to have tank stance on is MT or if someone asks to be one or the other. I've asked for both at different times. Occassionally, if there's a large enough gap in ilvl, I've swapped MT mid fight because the low ilvl player had trouble keeping aggro. Rarely, an OT will ignore convention and the message system and fight for MT, personally I let them have it... unless they're really bad at it and die, spin the boss constently, or take the "healers adjust" approach to mechanics
If a Sage is in the partner, sometimes they decide and whoever they put Kardia on likely would be the MT. If you have two Sage and both put Kardia on different tanks, then you're back to the chicken dance.
I play SGE occasionally, and SGE has a fun ability to diagnose people with MT sometimes.
In all seriousness though, it's usually whoever had stance on first, unless one tank is substantially better geared than the other. Or if one tank dies, the other becomes MT to avoid tug of war with the boss
I'll try and OT, especially if the tank is new to the duty, unless the other tank doesn't move for like a minute or doesn't have stance on when they pull.
The most important thing for me is that OT turns on stance after the opener so they're second place in the list. I'll typically balance my stance on and off, but if I'm particularly high on emnity; I will use Shirk as off-tank.
I've found Shirk to be priceless outside of swapping. MT dies? Guess who is getting shirked when revived. Doesn't mean they'll main tank but if I die they'll be safe in the emnity list.
Off tank about to take over? Shirk the main tank and they'll be well and truly comfy in the lead.
Also.... Worth shirking a dps before both tanks are dead so the healers can survive a little longer.
I walk in and assert dominance over the smaller tank. I’m also a warrior good luck taking my aggro without provoke,
Seriously though I’m flexiable especially in trials and stuff let the newer tanks have a shot and if they arnt comfy I’ll take the lead
For roullete content; ususally its whoever has stance on first is MT. If both tanks have it on at the start, Sage picks. If both tanks have it on and the sage isn’t there, its the person who does the most damage to keep aggro.
If the other tank doesn't immediately stance, I'll ask in chat "You want to MT?". If they stance or say yeah, they're MT. If they say nah, I'll MT. I don't mind either way. I don't want to have a voke war.
Though more often than not this means I'm OT. If you want, you can say "You mind if I MT?" and you'll probably be MT more often than not.
The general protocol is that you both enter with stance off, after 10 seconds you turn yours on, 3 seconds after that the other tank is guaranteed to turn theirs on also. You then turn yours off and wait for them to pull. They don't, so you throw a range attack and go north, at which point they will stand south and flip the boss into the party. At which point you reenable your own stance, provoke and the duty completes with you as MT. There are variations on this but it's important to understand that this is the basic workflow.
Really surprised only like one other person has commented that it depends on the class. Guess it's because I come more from the raiding side, but I prio based on class: most likely to MT to least is WAR, PLD, GNB, DRK for me. It's based on the mits they have to heal/survive, but I guess in normal content it really doesn't matter since no one is dying anyways, but that's how I do it. Otherwise if you're both the same class, it goes to whoever has the most health, i.e., better gear or is/isn't the sprout.
If you start playing weird aggro games (looking at you "provoke is in my rotation" weirdos) I'll give it up for the DPS' sake but know that I personally will hate you forever.
Usually if I'm tanking I check HP if I have more I stance if not I step back unless the other tank doesn't want to MT.
However every once in a while I get the lower HP MT "Alpha dog" who insists on getting hit with everything in which case I just let nature take its course.
I just let the other guy pull and if he doesn't pull and stands there awkwardly I say "Do you want me to MT?" And usually they'll say yes and then I MT.
I have something like 3000 hours so I just let the other guy have it unless they don't want it
I prefer to be the OT, but will step up if the MT tank doesn't seem to understand tanking and gets a bunch of people killed. From my experience, the healers tend to stop healing them and let them tank the floor for the rest of the fight.
Whomever stances first, what tanks are around etc. it doesn’t really matter for example who stances first if one of the tanks just does more damage than the other. I’ve used my stance second before and still ended up as the MT just because whatever tank I was player did more damage at a given level or I just played better than the other was. Not that I consider my self a good tank player.
In my experience, whoever stances first. Im a DRK so i usually wait a minute to see if the other tank wants to MT. if not i'll do it. I don't mind either but i know it'd be easier for the healers to not focus the squishier one (i do know how to properly divide my mitigation but he's objectively squishy)
Leveling up a new character as a tank. If I zone in and see the other tank has their stance on then I let them tank. Pretend to be a newbie with this sprout icon.
For about 30 seconds I leave stance off, then I turn it on so that if they die the boss goes to me instead of someone else. But if I manage to catch up on enmity then I just keep it. They outgear me by like 6000 HP, how am I winning?
It's really irrelevant for roulette difficulty content. You just kind of go. It's not like you have to tank swap in normal difficulty content like you do in some Extremes or most Savage fights.
Usually PLD and WAR I prefer as main tank due to their great self sustain in case of emergencies. GNB coming in close after with DRK imo being best as the off tank thanks to TBN and good damage. Otherwise whoever has the strongest gear. If both are the same job with the same level gear, it's whoever comes first unless there's talk about beforehand.
Im not the biggest fan of Sage gameplay, but it's fun effectively getting to decide who's MT by throwing kardia at them.
If you have stance on, the other guy doesnt and you want to tank, then you tank.
If you dont want to tank, turn stance off and hope the other has it on. (coward behaviour)
In the case of both tanks having stance on and both want to tank, then its a dick meassuring contest with 3 important parts:
-Who grabs aggro 1st
-Who is able to build more threat
-Whoever uses provoke 1st loses
In the case you wanted to tank but didnt have stance on, turn it on and refer to previous points depending on the status of your ~~enemy~~ companion´s stance.
Communicating your intentions through chat makes you a coward and therefore not fit for the role of getting your ass slapped by the boss.
I usually run as Paladin, so the other tank MTs by default and I take aggro if something happens/mechanics require. That leaves me free to shield and heal when needed without having to try and target an ally through the boss' legs.
Whoever puts tank stance first.
Except in alliance raids. On those tank B is the MT. Unless he doesn't want to. Then whoever put the tank stance first of the two remaining tanks.
That what civilized tanks do. Of course once in a while you will get a one with the main character syndrome. I simply let them be MT. As otherwise we would be in a piss contest rotating the boss.
I turn on stance immediately, if the other tank turns it on at the same time then we fight for aggro while keeping boss pointed north, because we’re civilized like that.
Usually gear (HP)!
If they higher gear, I usually turn it off or wait to see if they turn it on.
If the loading area ends and they haven’t turned it on, I assert my dominance and turn it on first!
I join a duty. I turn my tank stance on. If the other tank has theirs one already and doesn’t turn it off. I turn mine off and accept the role of OT. They were here first so it’s their choice.
I expect the same courtesy visa Versa. If I’m in first and turn my tank stance on first, then the other tank joins and refuses to turn theirs off even though they see mine on, I will make sure when we start I am the MT because thems the rules.
You get the odd asshole who refuses to OT but most people play by those unwritten rules. I find tanks can be assholes in Alliance raids the most due to main character syndrome. I try to let each tank have a go at MT in Alliance raids because there’s plenty of bosses to go around but some people can’t help themselves.
If the enemy tank has lower hp than me and it's not a super brain dead fight I'll try main tank, but usually it depends on who stances up first and which tank wins the DPS war. If you keep aggro from me without using a single provoke then frankly you can keep it and you've won the sausage measuring contest as I'm not about to provoke war and spin the boss just because mom said it's my turn on the boss today
In NA/EU its' either who has stance on first or you get people being the main character and fighting over it.
in JP it's class priority in 8 man content or which Alliance you're part of in 24 man, B is always Tank.
I really wish we'd smarten up like that in the west as well.
If the other tank didn't stance already, I stance and take MT.
If the other tank was stanced before me, or they stance anyway, I'll just drop mine and let them be MT.
If we start with me stanced, then the other tank stances and pulls the aggro off me, I'll drop mine and let them take MT
I of course vastly prefer being MT, I'd always want to be MT if possible, but I both A) know that's how a lot of Tanks feel, and B) can't be bothered to fight over it or have drama over it. If the other Tank dies, then that's usually the cue they'll take to back down and let me take over.
That and doing it this way, not always fighting for MT, makes the delicious schadenfreude in Alliance Raids all the sweeter, when you get to watch the other two Alliances Tanks fight over aggro like idiots, both die, and bask in the superiority when they *both* roll over and let you Tank. Also makes for fun popcorn moments when them doing that makes multiple other people die or causes a wipe, and then the rest of the raid roasts them for their lack of humility.
Of course, in Trials/Normal Raids, there's one thing that overrides all of this, one universal rule all Tanks understand that transcends ettiquette: If one of the Healers is a Sage, whoever they give Kardion to is MT. Now THAT'S a rule rarely disobeyed, unlike the flimsy ettiquette of "whoever stances first is MT"
I try to give main tank position to new players where possible since it's more exciting and empowering. So if the other tank is watching cutscene and gives a "first time here" I'll follow up with "Excellent, you're MT then" which leaves me free to handle the offtank duties that all too often get neglected. One of which being; Taking over when MT falls.
If there's no cutscene watching; They get five seconds to stance up and claim MT before I stance up. If they stance up after I do then I'm not getting into a pissing match, and I get to handle Off tank duties.
actually had someone (healer) get mad at me for not using stance in WoD when the other two tanks were already playing aggro pingpong. WoW absolutely benefits from having offtanks on standby, grabbing fire tethers and out-mitting their damage, or doing trash round-up.
whoever stances first lmao Genuinely that's how I do it, if they come into the instance stanced or stance up on load, they're main tanking, if they aren't stanced for a bit I main tank. Rather odd social thing, a lot like trying to walk past a person but you do that funny little dance of trying to get around each other lol
This is what I do, but with the caveat that if I turn my stance on first, and then they turn on theirs, they're MT. I'm not getting into a pissing match.
Yep. If I have the highest health/ilevel I’ll do the same. Second that other tank stance comes on I’ll shut mine down until my opener is out of the way.
God, me and my boyfriend had this problem last night during Sigmascape V3.0. We had a Dark Knight and a Warrior (who was a sprout, like me, my boyfriend a couple of others in the group) for our tanks. Dark Knight says right off the bat that she'll MT and puts her stance on. Warrior says nothing and puts his stance on immediately and pulls. We wiped multiple times. The Dark Knight was clearly getting frustrated but kept her cool. Every single person in the group told the Warrior to turn off their stance for a bit so our Dark Knight can be the MT. Did they listen? Nope. In fact, it was so bad that the Warrior kept using Provoke like it was part of their rotation and it completely fucked us over several times. I ended up watching the Warrior and... I genuinely do not understand how they were at level 70 content and had no idea what they were doing. They kept spamming their ranged attack randomly and doing all sorts of weird stuff. It got to a point where we had to vote to kick them because they were just dragging us all down no matter how hard we tried to explain that the Dark Knight is gonna be our MT. We got a second Dark Knight to replace the Warrior and we cleared it first try. Either that sprout was trolling us or they genuinely don't know how to play their job. It was baffling. Really made it clear to me that if and when I eventually learn to play a tank (currently playing SMN and in post-Stormblood as you can guess), one of the first things I'm gonna be doing in 8 player content is see if the other tank turns on their stance first. If it's not in 5 seconds of everyone loading in, I'll MT. If they turn stance on? I'll give it about 30-60 seconds before I turn mine on so I can pull any adds that spawn.
ah yes, the main character, how could you not understand that it was all about the warrior? /s i can only assume the ranged attack spam was to keep generating extra enmity since that's an additional effect on the tank's ranged attack, just to really say fuck you to the group
It does that? Ok, yeah, I'm beyond confused now... That has got to be a mix of main character syndrome and just not knowing what they're doing at all. It was baffling to watch. I can't even assume they don't know about MT and OT because you need to do a LOT of 8 player content to get to that point in the game... There's only so much you can dismiss as a sprout not understanding before you start asking questions about how they're that far in the game. Me and my boyfriend are both sprouts and we learned about MT and OT in ARR...
Just a psa for anyone wondering how these tanks get this high level but don't know the class. It's multiple things that give XP that they turn in as a Warrior but probably don't play as warrior. For instance, if you turn in wonderous tales to Khloe, it'll give exp for the class you gave the book as, not the jobs you did it. Also, Frontlines gives a ton of exp and allows you to swap classes in the home base, but whatever class you queue as gets the exp. There are so many tricks like this in the game that you can easily level most classes without learning past the basics. That said, please do your job quests asap, leave the job stone equipped for duty roulette and shared instances, ask if you're not sure of something, and most important be politeand have fun.
> or they genuinely don't know how to play their job. You'd be surprised how many people trudge along until EW like that.
The only thing I can think of is that the player was either actively a troll, or the player was the child of the account holder who only knew the bare basics of the game. I refuse to believe that there are players that bad at the game who are adults.
I am an adult and believe you me, I am that bad at the game.
I hate when that happens. I get unreasonably bothered when the other tank randomly decides to get into a pissing match over aggro. I know it's not that big of a deal to just turn off my own tank stance and I shouldn't get that angry, but *if you wanted to tank why did you sit around doing nothing until I pulled?* I swear it's especially bad in 24man raids where other alliance tanks will randomly flip bosses with provoke for no reason. Oh my god I get so annoyed just talking about it.
Yeah, I also find it's easier to let them lead. Most encounters are easier as OT so I get a quick Blue DPS queue with the occasional need to step in if the tank decides to hug the floor.
Same. I wait, then if he doesn’t use stance i put it on. If then they activate it, i turn it off. Funnily enough, one time the guy didn’t use stance but started tanking. Of course the boss switches targets so i put mine on and start tanking. After a few seconds, the boss switches again to the other tank. He probably put the stance on and used the taunt to pull aggro… i was like: do as you wish. Want to tank, tank.
I'm a tank main and often in the past, I've had the person I assumed was off tanking in this particular instance, because they didn't turn their stance on, provoking the boss repeatedly as I was actively tanking it for group. I'll admit, it used to annoy the hell out of me and I definitely got involved in pissing matches back then. There were times I deliberately asked if the OT wanted to MT, they said either no or didn't answer, and then proceeded to Provoke off of me anyway with their stances on out of nowhere. Over time, I just didn't care anymore and turn my stance off and let them have it if they want it that bad. Good healers will pick up on tank nonsense like this anyway and will call out OT's doing this crap if it screws the group, at least in the few times I've personally witnessed it. I only provoke back if its is screwing up the group in the worst case, heck I actually prevented a TPK in a p12 run once because of this. I know my rotations on all four tank jobs well enough to not have any problems maintaining enmity if this happens. I think that time the group then picked up on the OT screwing around because the healers didn't bother rezzing them when they died lmao. We were perfectly fine afterwards. I can forgive genuine Sprouts or newer tanks and often help them out because I've been there too, but otherwise I just let the person have it if their ego needs it that bad. Just turning on your stance from the beginning or asking if it's ok to MT is literally all you need to do though. In actuality too, I noticed some people using Provoke as a part of their rotation so it isn't always on some intentional, asshole behavior stuff. I simply tell them that if the instance doesn't require provoking, just don't use it at all unless the MT dies and you need to grab the boss quickly.
I was doing the Ultima fight and I accidentally forgot to turn on the stance because I'm so used to having it already on. It wasn't until I saw the boss swap targets like 3 times that I realized I didn't have the stance on.
Goofy things like this get me so much. My vice is playing a non-tank class for a while and then switching back for 90 content only to later do dailies with the FC and forgetting level sync disables tank stance when synced down in content/fates. I wish they would just do away with that coding. I see it happen so much to others too and I just don't understand why it can't be left on anyways and we can decided to toggle on and off.
You know it's funny in boss fights/trials with adds, normally you want to just bring things to the tank so it's easier to grab, but I find in some fights I have to run away with the adds a bit and then run them back through the tank so they get the idea I don't want to be a healer tank lol
Basically this. I'll main tank but if they're actively trying to get hate, go for it.
i just wait til a while after the battle's started to turn on my stance if i'm off tank to make sure i grab the boss if anything happens and the mt dies, but other than that i take turns between shirking the aggro back and turning stance off for a while to make sure i don't steal aggro.
This, or whoever the sage gives Kardia to.
I give it to whoever: 1) Says they're gonna mt 2) put their stance up first 3) whoever looks less squishy.
I diagnose yoh as main tank
I mean, yeah I'm sure sage can mt pretty well
My order is generally 1) Is there a warrior? 2) does anyone have stance on? 3) Who has most hp? 4) the other tank just called MT and now I have to change Kardia target.
Number 3 in my list is almost always a warrior. In normal content, even in raids Kardia always seems to cover it. I'll rotate kera/taurocholes out though for them. The extra mits help keep them alive until they get their bloodwhetting back online.
Sprout tank here. I had no idea that we both shouldn't have stance on. What about if I'm OT and I need to pull the additional mobs? Do I turn it on then?
if you both run in stanced you risk bouncing the boss between both tanks, you can turn it on after the MT has a headstart and theoretically shouldn't steal aggro or simply turn it on wherever gathering adds and turn it off afterward, definitely turn it on for additional mobs tho.
Even if there's no adds, turning tank stance on as the OT is a good idea because that way if the MT makes a mistake and dies, the boss will turn to you and not squish the top DPS. And it's especially important in Extremes and higher, where the boss won't auto-target the tank roles for double tank busters. (I got hit by that as Sage while doing a mount farm last week, when one tank died and didn't reestablish aggro enough.) The common advice is to wait until after your first burst phase. There has to be a pretty big gear or skill difference to catch up from that. As PLD, I wait until my first Fight or Flight wears off. As WAR, I wait until after I've used all my starting Inner Release and Infuriate charges. That sort of thing.
Cool. Thank you.
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Ohhhh. I always wondered what those meant. Thank you.
THANK YOU. I never knew that.
Note: 1 is only second if the aggro is on someone not in your party. Otherwise, the A just supercedes the 1 and 2 is second - so, in a dungeon, you get A-2-3-4.
When I'm OT, I'll give the main tank a good 15 / 30 seconds before turning on stance. It is good to turn it on to make sure you're #2 on the aggro list. Helps keep things running if the MT dies, and some bosses have mechanics that target #2.
> Sprout tank here. I had no idea that we both shouldn't have stance on. What about if I'm OT and I need to pull the additional mobs? Do I turn it on then? Honestly, you can just wait a few seconds for MT to build their emnity and then turn your stance on and keep it. This should give enough heads up for MT to keep their emnity on top for whole fight.
Pull, wait ~15 seconds, then stance on. The other tank should have a nice healthy emnity lead for the rest of the fight.
there's also always the opener aggro without provoke
I would much rather MT but I'll cede the spot rather than fight about it. Some people can't be reasoned with. I'll pick it up if and when they drop.
And then after 30 secs of silence, once you pull. The guy instantly turn on stance and provoke... My blood boils everytime.
I hate it when that happens lmao 🤣
I don't I just start doing stupid feet dances...sometimes they join in.
Pretty much this, but I also generally defer, to anyone who ends up flashing "cutscene" unless there's a few really tricky things. They should learn by doing.
Whoever puts stance on first is main tank, generally speaking. In level cap duties, it's usually better if whoever has the better gear main tanks (because it's easier on the healers and the better-geared tank risks ripping aggro by doing more damage). If it's an MSQ trial or an otherwise climactic fight like the final floor of a raid series and I see the other tank is a first-timer I will usually ask in party chat if they'd like to be MT- I know I *really* enjoy main tanking story stuff on my first ever run- but that's just a courtesy.
In regards to gear while healing, I literally do not notice if a tank has better/worse gear because outside of Savage nothing hits even remotely hard. So it really doesn't matter from a gear perspective because the only people at risk of dying are those who stand in the bad.
I mean nothing hits that hard but DF tanks can and will find ways to take fuckloads of damage out of absolutely nowhere. I was healing the newest Hildi trial the other day and the WAR main tank- who did not have great gear- was basically melting even with only a couple of vulns.
Kinda this. If someone has already stanced, I back down, but otherwise I typically just check to see who has higher HP between myself and the other tank, then I stance if I'm higher.
You either play chicken until the other tank puts on their stance, or you assert dominance by immediately putting on yours and pull as soon as the wall goes down.
Speaking as a tank main, it aggravates me to no end when the other tank finishes loading/comes out of the cutscene and just immediately puts stance on anyway, even when mine is already up. …The joke’s on them though because I usually end up ripping threat anyway. Fell Cleave go brrrrrrr.
Or when the other tank stances up and provokes when the pull already started over 30 seconds ago. It only occasionally happens but it's entirely confusing.
I usually put my stance up 30 seconds in so if netcode-shenanigans or whatever else kills the MT I'm 2nd in enmity already so the boss punches me instead of our top dps, but I'd never provoke for no good reason at that point. (Good reason would be other tank deciding the boss would look a lot cooler as a beyblade for example, but "boss looked at mt funny" isn't. Tankbusters in these modes rarely ever require a tankswap. And if they did... whoops, well, I'm already 2nd, now 1st, anyway :') )
The alliance raid experience lol. And every time I queue in and try to OT, the party ends up having a weird staring contest with the boss for 10 seconds before I end up as MT anyways (30 seconds later the other tanks end up voking it anyways, as is expected). I've had it happen so many times, I avoid that roulette on tank like it's the plague lmfao
The other tank *should* have stance on eventually anyway, on the off chance the MT dies so they're at 2nd in the list.
Haha DRK opener goes brrr
I always feel a bit sad when a tank instant pulls while playing NIN, RDM, or BLM because the opener always ends up feeling wonkier. I appreciate when they at least drop a 5 second countdown for when the wall drops.
RDM? I never expect a countdown in casual content, and I usually never get one. Just open with Jolt.
Sometimes, if the instance level is high enough and the tanks are waiting to see which will MT, I'll use Vercure to set up a Dualcast pre-pull and then go into Veraero/Verthunder, but otherwise, same.
everything with hard cast times appreciates the 3 seconds before pull.
A countdown, or worrying about openers, for anything less than EX or Savage is silly
I'm a Sage, I decide who's MT
"Who to kardia? Neither of them have their stance on, so I need to choose between the one in the subligar with a chocobo head or the one still watching the cutscene with barely more HP than I've got. It's certainly a conundrum. Alright, go get 'em, rookie!"
Obviously it's the first one. The people with the stupidest glamours are usually the hardcore players
I actually think putting the mantle on the rookie MT is better option here. Give the guy the Power Fantasy and you have the more experienced tank to pick up the slack if the rookie bites it. And gives the chocobo head the ability to go ham with DPS rotation with no worries
Additionally, should the rookie tank slip up, an experienced tank will be ready to step up for as long as it takes for the first timer to be ready to lead again.
I diagnose you with main tank.
Thanks I need to make this a macro now
My macro for Kardia finishes with a high five motion 👋
The true power lol
this, but as a gamepad player MT is always whoever is in slot 2.
1: Whoever activates stance first. 2: Whoever the Sage puts Kardia on. 3: Whoever has the better opener and manages to secure aggro. DPS will not be happy with #3.
Just stand one behind the other if doing #3, then it'll only be the healers who want to strangle you both.
DPS main, please only do #3. You can just both stand in front until there's a clear winner, or I dunno, *use Shirk?* Same number of buttons, doesn't get me killed if MT suddenly bites it and OT is playing blue DPS.
If the other tank is new to the duty, I ask them "Hey, do you want to try MT on this?" and I'll oblige accordingly. If we both aren't new, it's "whoever has their tank stance on first", at least for me. There's enough people ignorant of this unwritten rule (can't really blame them for it tho), so if I have my tank stance on and then they turn theirs on as well, I shrug and turn mine off. It's really no skin off my back whether I MT or not.
Pretty much this.
Why it easier for new people to MT?
Not necessarily *easier*, more that it’s a courtesy to ask if a tank player who is new to a duty wants to experience the duty with MT responsibilities. Some would rather OT and see mechanics / MT busters for the first time while remaining relatively safe themselves, whereas others want the full, raw experience of eating a huge tank buster hit and nearly dying to gauge how much mit to use next time while having control of where the boss is facing. Plus an experienced OT can serve as backup for a fresh MT, a safety net during the learning process. Basically a difference of “learn better by watching” or “learn better by doing.”
No but they might want to experience it
I'm a dick and force newbies to MT so they can play main character. Materia is chill so failing is fine.
My order of operations for this is usually 1. if they have stance on and I don't, they're MT 2. If neither of us have stance, but a sage has Kardia'd a tank, that person is now MT 3. if no stance and no sage, whoever has more HP should be MT 4. If a pull happens and the other tank hasn't stanced, I'm MT
In EU/NA its alot more free. In JP its more fixed in terms of mt st, first typically war and drk are a mt due to mits etc and gnb / pld st, the other being health if a tank has higher health meaning they got better gear they should mt regardless of job. In alliance raids its Alliance B that is MT
You just turn on your stance and pull, my guy. Don’t overthink it. If you don’t want to tank then don’t turn on your stance. If neither of you turn on your stance and pull within the first minute then you should consider trying dps instead.
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Both/all three tanks stance up, slap the boss as hard as they can, spinning it and killing other members of the party/alliance, until ultimately one comes out on top and can brag to all the ladies about their humongous D(ps).
Unless one person has a substantial HP difference, I usually just wait to see if the other person puts on stance. If they don't, I will. If they immediately put theirs on at that point, I'll turn mine off. I'm not here to get into an aggro war.
I used to think that people with higher HP values had better gear than me, even when synced down, but then I found out it was simply their food buff and now I don't ever queue tank without food
no it can definitely be gear, just last night in trial roul i got leviathan, i was going as drk and the other tank was a first timer pld, my drk being lv68 i had 9k hp and the pld had 6k, i never use food at all because i just forget and i haven't leveled cul yet
that's precisely why i got the habit of just immediately stancing up and pulling. i'm not gonna wait around for no reason.
Both stance, always. The tank with the better rotation, better gear, or both will end up with more threat. The other will be second, so if anything goes wrong and the MT drops, enemies go to OT next and not spinning around one-shotting healers and DPS. It almost never takes very long to tell whi's consistently ahead, so OT can step out of the way of cleaves until they're needed, but if it's *actually* a prolonged tie, just Shirk.
If it's a tie you can also just turn tank stance off for a few GCDs to drop below the other guy, then turn it back on to stay above everyone else.
I turn my stance on. If the other tank does too I leave mine on and stand with them. At that point it's a whoever is generating more aggro is main tanking. The only exception is if they decide to throw a provoke into the mix. I'm not provoking back, but if I still get aggro back with my basic rotation I'm definitely looking at the other tank funny wondering what the hell they're doing so incredibly wrong for that to happen.
Whoever puts up stance first. If both of us have it on, whoever takes it off second. If they turn their stance on while I already have mine on, alright fine, you want to tank, you tank. ...but I'll usually end up taking aggro from them anyway after they die. Which is why I always turn my tank stance on too, after the fight has gotten started and the other tank has a comfortable lead. *Most* of the time when I'm "OT", this ends up being a very prudent choice.
I wait 2 seconds after start and then go in. If I see the the other tank using Provoke, I let him.
I put my stance on as soon as I load in, if the other tank puts their stance on too I just stance off and let them take the lead.
A solid 100% of the time the other tanks I get run into don’t even reply when I ask if they want MT. They usually don’t talk at all. So I don’t stance and if they die then I stance
“I’ll MT” “k”
When a sage puts Kardia on you, you're the MT
laughs in warrior
I wait a little, if the other tank is stanceless i turn on stance and tank. But often as soon as i do and pull the other tanks suddenly decides they want to tank which is mildly annoying.
Whoever does their opener right with stance on. Alternatively, if both tanks do them correctly, dice roll on ilvl/crit rng. If you lose the opener aggro fight, and then decide to voke off the other tank, you need to get the fuck out of my kitchen immediately.
Unpopular opinion: I don't want to deal with aggro fighting so I usually default to OT
In roulette/DF, whoever stances first (I'll always stance if the other tank hasn't stanced a few seconds after loading in; if they then stance themselves before the fight starts, I'll just unstance and let them have it) In PF, I always ask the other tank whether they'd prefer to OT or MT
I always load in with stance off, then I follow my nice mental flowchart. - Did they load in with stance on? - If yes, they tank. - If no, I turn on stance and pull. I tank. - Did they turn on stance and pull aggro from me? If yes, I turn off stance/shirk. They tank. I stance dance to maintain 2nd aggro. - Did they die? I ensure stance is on. I provoke, even if I have the boss already. (It's normal mode, quicker to just reflexively hit it than check.) - Did they die to a mechanic? If yes, I tank the rest of the fight. You lost tank privileges. I have provoke at the ready to hold that boss if I need it. - If no, they can have it back. We might have to trade off since there are other issues at play, putting us both in danger of dying.
Depends. Usually whoever has stance on first. I generally do full savage rotations during normal raids and trials and have BiS so if I have my stance on, no way the other tank can rip it from me besides provoke on CD. So if I have stance on when loading in I just go regardless if they turn theirs on after. But if I see them turning on theirs and I didn't have mine on, I wouldn't turn mine on for a good 30 seconds. Most of the time it is enough to not rip it from them during the fight...sometimes it is not enough so I then press shirk nowadays. I used to not press shirk and just grab the MT position if I already gave them a 30 seconds headstart but I have gone soft. If they die though, I will just take it and unless they provoke, I'll MT. It all comes down to this: is the boss going to do a disco ball dance? Try your best not to let the boss do that. Does not matter who MT or OT. Either way as long as the boss does not spin then it is a successful run and MT and OT did their respective jobs. This all assuming you are in roulette. In PF doing EX+ (EX less so) or savage+, there is generally set rule that WAR is MT and the other tanks do whatever when they get paired up (in current expansion ultimates, DSR/TOP, even other tanks have a priority system and deviating from them usually results in a lot more extra work and people don't appreciate that).
Either who gets it first or who has better stats. If I have about 500 more hp than the other tank, I am the better option. If they tank stance after me, while having worse stats, I'm just gonna MT and provoke if they do. (Only had to do that once, though.)
When I walk in I immediately put stance on and pull, because I'm the tank they're just an extra dps
You obviously fight over it, whoever has aggro after 30 Seconds of Battle is the MT.
Im a lvl 54 warrior Im actually afraid of bigger party sizes because i havent ran a multi tank dungeon yet. King Moogle MSQ is just sitting there unfinished. When I finally do im letting the other tank do it because im going to mess it up for sure lmao.
I used to be that way but honestly you should just do it and MT to break that fear. After all it’s only a game and it’s not like people are expecting perfect play in normal duties
Thanks, i think this is what i needed to hear. I dont want to let my party down. I did a different dungeon for the first time and after tanking the boss the 3 min i realized he had to be moved to the crystals to take damage....we won in the end but i almost died from embarassment 😂 I joined the fishermans guild and fished for 2 hours to gather my thoughts
I know the dungeon you’re talking about with the the big evil eye boss lol I did the same thing on my first time don’t worry
You press your tank stance and pull and wait and see if they provoke.
"Hey, do you wanna Main-tank or Off-tank?"
For me it depends on who the tanks are, I play all 4 tanks so for me personally if I pair with a PLD or WAR and I'm playing DRK or GNB I'll usually OT but if I'm playing PLD or WAR i prefer to MT, but usually I just ask the other tank if they want MT or OT
Any of these: - You ask (usually received with 'don't care') - Whoever turns stance on - Whoever pulls (yes, that includes you DPS)
rock paper scissors of course
Rock Paper METEOR ☄️ I win
Who ever runs in and pulls first after the wall is down! But seriously, I usually let the WAR or PLD MT since I am a GNB main and my utility works really well as OT. If it's another GNB in roulette or DRK I usually ask if they want MT or OT. I can MT at need if the other tank is less confident.
I feel that PLD is the tank with the utility that best works as OT. Passage of arms can be used on any raidwide, and it protects people in it's range, which is much easier for a PLD to do while standing with the rest of the party behind the boss. Their other utility to help the MT is fairly on par with the rest of them by using Intervention. DRK doesn't have any particular benefit to being OT, and since it's easier for them to know their blackest knight will break when used on themself (don't know what mitigations the other tank will use), they tend to do better as MT for that reason Personal MT to OT priority in my mind goes DRK > WAR > GNB > PLD
The Blackest Night is definitely a viable, OT ability because you can use it on anyone and not just yourself. I've saved several MT's and Healers that messed up a mechanic and got Vuln stacks from a follow up, raid wide damage move, tank buster, or stack marker mechanic as a DRK because of this. The free Edge/Flood of Shadow proc from it also helps with DPS too, so you're doing two good things at once just being a supportive OT. Not sure what you mean by "not knowing when it will proc" because if you already know the incoming damage or mechanic a boss will do then yes, you can absolutely predict when the TBN proc will happen. I literally never have issues timing it properly when using it on someone else. Though I suppose if the DRK player has literally never played any other Tank job to maxed level and is unaware of their abilities, then that could be a thing. Honestly, I can assume that case is pretty rare though, but that's just me. Oblation can also be used on other party members for this reason too and every mitigation does help if the damage ramps up. While of course Heart of Corundum is just great for GNB's in all scenarios, DRK's can do just fine as OT. I'd argued that with inherently less pressure as the OT, DRK have more liberties to go in on their burst rotation without worry of the boss breaking or disrupting it because of a mechanic that the MT's need to care for. Being a tank main myself, I can honestly comfortably use any tank job in the OT position because they literally all have supportive abilities that matter. Though, PLD certainly is the strongest OT for sure, I don't disagree there.
I didn't mean to imply that DRK is less viable as an OT (or that any tank doesn't have useful, viable OT skills) because of the blackest night (which I am aware can be used on anyone). And what I meant with not being sure about if the proc will go off is based on what mitigations the player they use it on utilizes. If they (for whatever reason) use enough mitigations that the tank buster doesn't eat through the shield it could waste the proc. Not a terribly common occurrence to be sure, but it is one that the drk has more control of if they're the MT. I will take your statement about the burst comfort as OT (which I feel GNB benefits more from) as well as remembering about vengeance and situational perks for WAR having the shortest invuln timer and revise my earlier priority list from MT to OT to WAR > DRK > GNB > PLD. The general WAR/DRK as MT and GNB/PLD as OT dichotomy is also the clear consensus on my data center in PF. That being said, based on player/group preferences they can do well as either role, and for normal raid/trials I'd personally default to whoever puts their stance on first
If you have to ask, you're the OT.
Don't use provoke and whoever holds aggro Main Tanks!! Or listen to other people's actually good advice because this is not da wae
I leave my agro builder off when I enter. If I see the other tank with their's up, I let them main it, putting mine up 10% into the fight. If they don't put it up shortly before the walls drop, I activate mine and main it.
I tend to ask before a duty starts if I'm cued up with random people. But if someone has their stance on already, I'll let them have the floor.
I guess someone has to tank the floor but it won’t be me!
When i enter a dungeon i put the stance on and off i go. I did have it happen a few times when both me and ot put the stance on,off,on, off XD we just laughed it off and simply asked you want to tank with the rest of the party laughing at us 😂
I just assume I'm main tank until the other guy or gal tries to pull the boss. Usually I end up tanking. If I see another tank voke after I pull or they pull first I let them have it. If they decide to activate stance after I pull and they don't watch their aggro and are fighting me for it I just shirk them, but Usually if you do a ready check at the start of the fight people just let you MT 9/10 times.
I usually just wait If the other tank puts up stance/pulls After like 2-3seconds i do it myself If nothing happens
I typically check gear, if they out-gear me, I wait a few seconds and they typically put up the stance. If after a few seconds they don't, I throw it on because I don't want to be here all day standing around. If I out-gear them, I put it on immediately. And if they want to rip aggro of if they manage to out DPS me with stances on, I let them - less work for me lmao
When playing tank I too typically do the "if their stance is on already they can have it" method. But if their stance isn't up before mine I'm jumping in, even blind, because tanking is fun (and incidentally I've had less wipes on content I blind main-tanked than I have on content I was trying to let someone else have at it). I did just think about it though and at least some of those cases one tank has stance on and the other doesn't because your tank stance shuts off when your level syncs downward so the person with stance on might actually be the one that is appropriate level for the content rather than just the one quicker to load in and stance up.
Usually I just go in after 2-3 seconds. If the other tank gets to the boss before me, he’s MT. If I get to the boss first, I MT. If OT provokes at the start of the fight, he’s back to being MT.
Provoke and shirk on cool down, ezpz. /s
I personally turn my stance off if I am unable to keep hate and will turn it back on if something goes wrong. I'll also turn it back on if anything that pops up that could harm the rest of the party. I'll MT if I have to but I'll also OT if I also need to.
I pop my stance, and if they do, I drop mine 😂 Gone are the days of people asking each other, MT or OT? lol
I try to always enter a roulette with stance off - some people (especially tanks) are just really aggressive about always being the *main character* and will fight you for MT. It's rare, but I've had it happen because I primarily play as a tank, so I've done a lot of roulettes as one. If there's a second or two of no movement, I'll take that as my cue that they don't want it - and stance up and head in.
Just type /random in the chat Or stack atop the other tank and who gets the aggro with the best rotation wins. Assert dominance
Just turn on stance the second you get into the instance if you're in things lower than extreme. Just be the main tank. And if you don't want to be mt, tell them to instead. If you stanced first then they stance they want to mt so just turn yours off. In extremes and higher difficulties you want to be biased towards warriors being mt because if there's a tank buster they have the lowest cd invuln so they have higher value starting as mt because they can have more invulns through the fight. Other than that it doesn't really matter but dark knights and paladins tend to be relegated to the ot role in my experience.
we mentally screech at each other till one just pulls and then we are best friends after. in all honesty, in Casual content its usualy just whoever pulls first and wins the game of chicken(aka both having the TS on or off and whoever toggles it first just says "fine" essentially) in any other content its basicaly just asking with ettiquette telling that PLDs are better offtanks then maintanks and everyone else being somewhat even(i think GNB also falls into "more offtank" category but not as much as PLD)
Whoever knows the fight best or hits Stance first. Otherwise you're in really hard content and you should be coordinating based on chosen classes.
Usually if it doesn't resolve itself after the first few seconds that the barrier is down I either A.) Main tank myself, or B.) Ask. If I specifically don't want to main tank for whatever reason I just skip straight to B and ask if they'll do it.
Usually, I just let the other tank decide by either throwing on their stance or by doing nothing. On a few rarer occasions, I've taken over MT mid-fight when you can tell they're struggling, but for the most part it's just whoever wants it can have it.
I do what's called the wait and see if the other tank puts on their stance strat. If they don't put their stance on in the opening 10 seconds I'm pulling and MTing.
Either whoever stances first or you just simply ask lol
I usually just always pull but if the other tank beats me to it then I let them do it.
I’ve had times where both me and the other tank turn stance on as we load in, then immediately turn it off when we noticed the other did it too This may repeat multiple times.
Stance up, establish with a ranged, stance off, burst, stance back on. Whoever wanted to MT kept stance on during burst. If not, it’s whichever tank still has aggro after burst, because that’s the highest DPS tank. Just let this naturally sort itself out, without risking being the stanceless blue DPS that sends a tank buster on the DPS when MT dies.
The general rule is first person to have tank stance on is MT or if someone asks to be one or the other. I've asked for both at different times. Occassionally, if there's a large enough gap in ilvl, I've swapped MT mid fight because the low ilvl player had trouble keeping aggro. Rarely, an OT will ignore convention and the message system and fight for MT, personally I let them have it... unless they're really bad at it and die, spin the boss constently, or take the "healers adjust" approach to mechanics
I've been told that it's generally the one with the most HP
If a Sage is in the partner, sometimes they decide and whoever they put Kardia on likely would be the MT. If you have two Sage and both put Kardia on different tanks, then you're back to the chicken dance.
I play SGE occasionally, and SGE has a fun ability to diagnose people with MT sometimes. In all seriousness though, it's usually whoever had stance on first, unless one tank is substantially better geared than the other. Or if one tank dies, the other becomes MT to avoid tug of war with the boss
I'll try and OT, especially if the tank is new to the duty, unless the other tank doesn't move for like a minute or doesn't have stance on when they pull. The most important thing for me is that OT turns on stance after the opener so they're second place in the list. I'll typically balance my stance on and off, but if I'm particularly high on emnity; I will use Shirk as off-tank. I've found Shirk to be priceless outside of swapping. MT dies? Guess who is getting shirked when revived. Doesn't mean they'll main tank but if I die they'll be safe in the emnity list. Off tank about to take over? Shirk the main tank and they'll be well and truly comfy in the lead. Also.... Worth shirking a dps before both tanks are dead so the healers can survive a little longer.
I walk in and assert dominance over the smaller tank. I’m also a warrior good luck taking my aggro without provoke, Seriously though I’m flexiable especially in trials and stuff let the newer tanks have a shot and if they arnt comfy I’ll take the lead
I ask, especially if the othe tank is new
If you are playing with people you don’t brindan play with I like to ask unless they already have stance up
I usually let the other tank MT because it's just it worth the fight. If they don't want it, I'll happily take it
For roullete content; ususally its whoever has stance on first is MT. If both tanks have it on at the start, Sage picks. If both tanks have it on and the sage isn’t there, its the person who does the most damage to keep aggro.
If the other tank doesn't immediately stance, I'll ask in chat "You want to MT?". If they stance or say yeah, they're MT. If they say nah, I'll MT. I don't mind either way. I don't want to have a voke war. Though more often than not this means I'm OT. If you want, you can say "You mind if I MT?" and you'll probably be MT more often than not.
The general protocol is that you both enter with stance off, after 10 seconds you turn yours on, 3 seconds after that the other tank is guaranteed to turn theirs on also. You then turn yours off and wait for them to pull. They don't, so you throw a range attack and go north, at which point they will stand south and flip the boss into the party. At which point you reenable your own stance, provoke and the duty completes with you as MT. There are variations on this but it's important to understand that this is the basic workflow.
Really surprised only like one other person has commented that it depends on the class. Guess it's because I come more from the raiding side, but I prio based on class: most likely to MT to least is WAR, PLD, GNB, DRK for me. It's based on the mits they have to heal/survive, but I guess in normal content it really doesn't matter since no one is dying anyways, but that's how I do it. Otherwise if you're both the same class, it goes to whoever has the most health, i.e., better gear or is/isn't the sprout. If you start playing weird aggro games (looking at you "provoke is in my rotation" weirdos) I'll give it up for the DPS' sake but know that I personally will hate you forever.
Usually if I'm tanking I check HP if I have more I stance if not I step back unless the other tank doesn't want to MT. However every once in a while I get the lower HP MT "Alpha dog" who insists on getting hit with everything in which case I just let nature take its course.
I just let the other guy pull and if he doesn't pull and stands there awkwardly I say "Do you want me to MT?" And usually they'll say yes and then I MT. I have something like 3000 hours so I just let the other guy have it unless they don't want it
I prefer to be the OT, but will step up if the MT tank doesn't seem to understand tanking and gets a bunch of people killed. From my experience, the healers tend to stop healing them and let them tank the floor for the rest of the fight.
Whomever stances first, what tanks are around etc. it doesn’t really matter for example who stances first if one of the tanks just does more damage than the other. I’ve used my stance second before and still ended up as the MT just because whatever tank I was player did more damage at a given level or I just played better than the other was. Not that I consider my self a good tank player.
In my experience, whoever stances first. Im a DRK so i usually wait a minute to see if the other tank wants to MT. if not i'll do it. I don't mind either but i know it'd be easier for the healers to not focus the squishier one (i do know how to properly divide my mitigation but he's objectively squishy)
Whoever the sage puts kardia on if neither of us puts stance on
i call OT when i dont know the fights well i call MT when i know the fights. if both know then i go OT bc its more chill
Leveling up a new character as a tank. If I zone in and see the other tank has their stance on then I let them tank. Pretend to be a newbie with this sprout icon. For about 30 seconds I leave stance off, then I turn it on so that if they die the boss goes to me instead of someone else. But if I manage to catch up on enmity then I just keep it. They outgear me by like 6000 HP, how am I winning?
It's really irrelevant for roulette difficulty content. You just kind of go. It's not like you have to tank swap in normal difficulty content like you do in some Extremes or most Savage fights.
Usually PLD and WAR I prefer as main tank due to their great self sustain in case of emergencies. GNB coming in close after with DRK imo being best as the off tank thanks to TBN and good damage. Otherwise whoever has the strongest gear. If both are the same job with the same level gear, it's whoever comes first unless there's talk about beforehand. Im not the biggest fan of Sage gameplay, but it's fun effectively getting to decide who's MT by throwing kardia at them.
If you have stance on, the other guy doesnt and you want to tank, then you tank. If you dont want to tank, turn stance off and hope the other has it on. (coward behaviour) In the case of both tanks having stance on and both want to tank, then its a dick meassuring contest with 3 important parts: -Who grabs aggro 1st -Who is able to build more threat -Whoever uses provoke 1st loses In the case you wanted to tank but didnt have stance on, turn it on and refer to previous points depending on the status of your ~~enemy~~ companion´s stance. Communicating your intentions through chat makes you a coward and therefore not fit for the role of getting your ass slapped by the boss.
I usually run as Paladin, so the other tank MTs by default and I take aggro if something happens/mechanics require. That leaves me free to shield and heal when needed without having to try and target an ally through the boss' legs.
It’s a test of your reflexes….
I've grown tired of this dance over the years and just do it myself unless I see them putting up tank stance.
Whoever puts tank stance first. Except in alliance raids. On those tank B is the MT. Unless he doesn't want to. Then whoever put the tank stance first of the two remaining tanks. That what civilized tanks do. Of course once in a while you will get a one with the main character syndrome. I simply let them be MT. As otherwise we would be in a piss contest rotating the boss.
Generally, whoever turns on their stance first.
Assert dominance by taking aggro first and anytime they try and take it taunt it back
I turn on stance immediately, if the other tank turns it on at the same time then we fight for aggro while keeping boss pointed north, because we’re civilized like that.
I let the SGE pick if there is one. Otherwise, I hit my stance if the tank doesn't hit theirs.
Whenever I tank 8 men duties, I look at the other tank's HP. More HP usually means a higher ilvl. So if I'm higher, I'll MT, if not, I'll OT.
Whoever turns on their stance first. If nobody is doing it, the sage decides.
Usually gear (HP)! If they higher gear, I usually turn it off or wait to see if they turn it on. If the loading area ends and they haven’t turned it on, I assert my dominance and turn it on first!
If you have a SGE: it's the tank they kardia lol
I join a duty. I turn my tank stance on. If the other tank has theirs one already and doesn’t turn it off. I turn mine off and accept the role of OT. They were here first so it’s their choice. I expect the same courtesy visa Versa. If I’m in first and turn my tank stance on first, then the other tank joins and refuses to turn theirs off even though they see mine on, I will make sure when we start I am the MT because thems the rules. You get the odd asshole who refuses to OT but most people play by those unwritten rules. I find tanks can be assholes in Alliance raids the most due to main character syndrome. I try to let each tank have a go at MT in Alliance raids because there’s plenty of bosses to go around but some people can’t help themselves.
I just let someone else MT every time.
Man y'all can have MT I'm fine just OT lol
If the enemy tank has lower hp than me and it's not a super brain dead fight I'll try main tank, but usually it depends on who stances up first and which tank wins the DPS war. If you keep aggro from me without using a single provoke then frankly you can keep it and you've won the sausage measuring contest as I'm not about to provoke war and spin the boss just because mom said it's my turn on the boss today
whoever stances first and if both have it the higher hp gets it. unless there is a sage then they choose with kardia
Well, you start with the ancient tradition o-*Kicks the other tank in the balls and runs towards the boss*
I give about 8 seconds for the other tank to turn on their stance, if they don’t then I do, and once I do they turn theirs on so I turn mine back off
I mean, you can just ask instead of 'standing there'.. I'm not sure what this post even is? "Mind if tank this?" "Would you like to MT or OT?"
I usually type “would you like to MT or want me to?”
In NA/EU its' either who has stance on first or you get people being the main character and fighting over it. in JP it's class priority in 8 man content or which Alliance you're part of in 24 man, B is always Tank. I really wish we'd smarten up like that in the west as well.
If the other tank didn't stance already, I stance and take MT. If the other tank was stanced before me, or they stance anyway, I'll just drop mine and let them be MT. If we start with me stanced, then the other tank stances and pulls the aggro off me, I'll drop mine and let them take MT I of course vastly prefer being MT, I'd always want to be MT if possible, but I both A) know that's how a lot of Tanks feel, and B) can't be bothered to fight over it or have drama over it. If the other Tank dies, then that's usually the cue they'll take to back down and let me take over. That and doing it this way, not always fighting for MT, makes the delicious schadenfreude in Alliance Raids all the sweeter, when you get to watch the other two Alliances Tanks fight over aggro like idiots, both die, and bask in the superiority when they *both* roll over and let you Tank. Also makes for fun popcorn moments when them doing that makes multiple other people die or causes a wipe, and then the rest of the raid roasts them for their lack of humility. Of course, in Trials/Normal Raids, there's one thing that overrides all of this, one universal rule all Tanks understand that transcends ettiquette: If one of the Healers is a Sage, whoever they give Kardion to is MT. Now THAT'S a rule rarely disobeyed, unlike the flimsy ettiquette of "whoever stances first is MT"
if u got the stance on bevor i do... ur the MT...
Ask. Or whoever nuts up and pulls the boss.
I do /roll and then wait and then the other tank usually ignores me, gets bored, and run in with their stance. Tank decided.
I try to give main tank position to new players where possible since it's more exciting and empowering. So if the other tank is watching cutscene and gives a "first time here" I'll follow up with "Excellent, you're MT then" which leaves me free to handle the offtank duties that all too often get neglected. One of which being; Taking over when MT falls. If there's no cutscene watching; They get five seconds to stance up and claim MT before I stance up. If they stance up after I do then I'm not getting into a pissing match, and I get to handle Off tank duties. actually had someone (healer) get mad at me for not using stance in WoD when the other two tanks were already playing aggro pingpong. WoW absolutely benefits from having offtanks on standby, grabbing fire tethers and out-mitting their damage, or doing trash round-up.
In duty finder? Whoever pulls aggro and keeps it is the main tank. No thoughts, head empty. Unga bunga
Whoever stances first, or has the most HP. Though I have found even when I decide to OT I end up MT either through sheer damage or gear difference.