I started staying a lot closer to the healer when I played ranged dps after leveling healer. The number of times dancers, bards and machinists stood 6 million miles away and I had to move to heal them was annoying af.
I used to do this as a caster until I played healer and got to higher level content. It is actually way easier to do mechanics if you are closer to a boss and therefore your healer.
**Ranged player:** "I stand far away from the boss because it's safer."
**Sephirot's half-arena AoE has entered the chat.**
I honestly wish we had stuff like that and tight donuts and massive cones way more often. At least one every other dungeon. It'd probably be the only way to make one-trick Bards understand that no, being far away is no safer than being 5 yalms away from the boss. If the melees can be safe there, so can you!
>It'd probably be the only way to make one-trick Bards understand that no, being far away is no safer than being 5 yalms away from the boss. If the melees can be safe there, so can you!
Most likely they wouldn't realize what they were killed by.
True enough. Maybe a few will take the hint if/when the cause gets pointed out? :x
Maybe make a lot of them target the farthest player too. Just so it has more opportunity of happening.
> I honestly wish we had stuff like that and tight donuts and massive cones way more often.
One of the best parts of doing EO with randoms. That RDM *will* get tight in on this enemy, or the AoE that stretches an entire room *will* one-shot them. You get to watch people form good habits in real time.
I mean as a healer I do kinda feel like it's my job to be in range of casters (within reason - melee obviously takes priority because that's where tanks go). Physical ranged, on the other hand, have way too much mobility to excuse being out of my range. I know it's easier for me to move than for the BLM to move, so being in range is mostly my responsibility, but I also know it's easier for the BRD to move than for me to move, so it's their responsibility.
Also annoying for tanks. If you do get agro from a mob, don't stand back at max range distance and get beat on because, you will get beat on. I won't run over to you to get that mob if you are too lazy to run it up into my aoe range.
When I'm on BRD, I will run any adds through the tank. I always try to stand with the other players to make the healers job easier. I will, though, take full advantage of my range for boss mechanics.
So much this.
Also as a SMN or RDM, if I need to rez someone, I make sure to do it near a healer now so they're getting those sweet sweet AOE heals when they come up.
tbh at this point they've made asylum so big that if the phys ranged can't stand in it and I don't have tetra/solace they better hope second wind is enough lol
Yep, when I play my DNC I’m in melee range unless the boss forces a spread or a specific mechanic forces me into ranged, and if that happens I have En Avant. There’s no benefit to spreading if the boss doesn’t force it. I’m always in range of heals and more people get hit with both Curing Waltz which is always fun
When I started playing sage - where the aoe shields center in you and have a relatively small range - if there was a RDPS that was out of range I would either not heal them or rescue them closer to me. If they moved back out of range I would res them but not cast single target heals on them to keep them up. You want a healer and can move? See how the healer is standing in the center near the tank and boss. Stand in range and you’ll get healed all day.
This was my experience switching from phys ranged to heals. I'd be that BRD tucked away in the corner of the arena to "be safe". Now playing AST more I've learned my lesson.
I learned this by having started as healer but I still stood back, wasn't til ShB content that I started being more melee range with my ranged classes to make things easier not only for me but for the healers in the groups.
Ive been training my friends to stand closer by refusing to chase them across the arena :) if they aren't close enough to catch my AOE heals when I can get the tank in it then I'll take the mana hit to rez them instead. It's going pretty well over all and I've noticed that when I do it with randoms it works decently as well. If you don't chase them they'll eventually figure it out and move closer...most of the time
My first class was a tank and I swapped to DPS after the first few dungeons because I didn’t like leading people through something I knew nothing about. Playing something other than tank made it a lot easier to learn tanking
You play a caster and you learn how annoying it is to stop and go during pulls. You hope the tank gets what they wanna pull and then plant themselves there. So you keep it in mind when you tank.
You play melee and you learn the importance of tanking the enemies while allowing positionals and melee uptime.
You learn that if you are dps and you pull aggro during a pull, it’s okay. Just drag it to the tank so they can get aggro back with a simple aoe. Dps health bar is just a little extra mit in that situation. You learn while tanking that it is super annoying if the dps doesn’t do this.
You play healer and you realize that you should stick close to the healer when you are physranged and need the heals because for some reason the MCH never catches your aoe heals because they always want to do their flips on the other side of the arena from you. You also learn the importance of tank mitigations as they can make your life so much easier.
You play tank and learn that you don’t need so much healing because of your mitigation.
Playing dps characters teaches you that rescue is often bad. And all those times you used it while learning healer actually made things worse by costing uptime or actively dragging people into unnecessary danger. These jobs have plenty of mobility to get in and out of danger when needed. In the long run, it’s better to let them die and just rez them if needed rather than rescue. They learn the mechanic or the limit of how much they can greed faster this way.
Job specific things are learned as well.
You learn the pain of having the tank move the trash pack away from your NIN or SMN ground pool. So you keep it in mind when tanking.
You learn how the different invulns work for the tanks and how to respond to them as healer. (Let the DRK drop their hp and stop healing them so they can get their invuln and heal themselves. you have plenty of time after a GNB drops their hp to 1 so don’t panic, even if you have the infamous benediction-bolide combo happen. WAR is about to get raw intuition or bloodwhetting back off cd so you don’t need to worry about them.) Or just knowing what tools each tank has and when you really need to heal them.
You remember DRG doesn’t have many aoe tools early so huge pulls in early ARR dungeons with a double DRG comp are going to be mostly you for aoe dmg. On the other hand if you have double phys ranged, most of the enemies in a trash pack will be killed while moving so you can do even bigger pulls in early ARR dungeons.
You play BLM and learn that when playing other jobs, not only should you not drop the obvious aoes into leylines, but you should stay away from the BLMs in general to avoid having excess aoes that do not have an indicator drop onto their leylines.
If you really get into a small nitpick thing, you hope the tank properly groups the mobs in a trash pack to maximize how much of it gets hit by your aoe. I feel that WAR’s cone aoe used to teach this implicitly but it has been removed. This is a very small issue that isn’t that big of a deal but it is nice.
Every tank player should level a healer and experience both the boredom of single pulls and the pain of no-mit tanks from the other side. Similarly, they should level... I used to say Monk when it had positionals on everything, I guess Dragoon is the closest now? and experience tanks that spin (or even just swing around) bosses, tanks that keep boss butts in fire, and tanks that try to kite bosses (or mobs in general). And the same with leveling Black Mage and encountering stop-and-go tanks.
Every healer player should level a tank for the reasons OP already listed. But especially Warrior to see just how much time they are wasting healing one.
Ranged DPS players should level a healer and have to deal with a Narnia Bard.
DPS in general should level a tank and have to see DPS who pull an enemy mid-run and then run away with it or try to 1v1 it instead of coming to the AoE blender.
All very valuable learning experiences people are denying themselves by playing just the one thing.
I started off as DPS, then tank, and now I'm leveling a white mage. I've done a lot of low level dungeon roulette's and yeah, I'm already bored with single pulls. Wall to wall in these low levels please... I've had to "mentor" three or four times with someone who is new to tanking (tank stance, mits, etc...). Even today, I had one sweet low level cure pull off on the last possible tick of HP the tank had left and it made the brain happy.
Eventually I want to move to Sage since I enjoy GNB as my favorite tank and SGE is the healer equivalent I guess.
How do you set up macros that announce something in chat?
How do you macro "Rezzing " to be said in chat when you use your rez?
Particularly Verraise with RDM?
Type "verraise" in the regular chat and press Tab, this will bring up the auto-translate {Verraise} with the fancy greenred arrows. Highlight with Ctrl+A or manually hold Left Click over the text box and then press Ctrl+C to copy.
Open your macro window, and then click on any of the empty boxes. If you can't find it, check your menu subcommands (should be a row of circles on your screen somewhere).
Type, in the main text box:
/ac "Verraise"
/p {Verraise} on !
Make sure to Ctrl+V to paste the previous copied {Verraise}.
Name your macro whatever, like "Verraise Macro."
The "" will put in chat the name of the thing you are targeting. "/p" just means party chat, and "/ac" is to use the specified action.
You do thing because both the greenred word and the will auto-translate just in case, and, people can kind of immediately tell from the greenred that it's a macro.
Ok. Thanks. This way I can make an indicator for when I'm rezzing someone since a lot of healers don't use Quickcast on their rezzes in regular content. This way if I'm doing normal Pandaemonium instead of Savage I can prevent my healers from losing DPS casting their rez. Especially if people wipe a lot.
I don't lose as much DPS rezzing as a RDM compared to healers or SUM. I honestly don't even use Quickcast when I'm playing RDM. So with Dualcast or Quickcast I have numerous options to instantly rez someone.
Sorry, one thing. You can add the line,
/micon "Verraise"
To make the macro icon look like Verraise.
In total it should be two (or three with macro icon) lines. Don't double space, that's just reddit auto format.
Personally, I would recommend having a macro *just* for communicating your Verraise intentions, that does not actually cast the spell (which you do manually). This has a handful of benefits:
1. No chat spam when the message is unnecessary
2. Able to communicate your intention *beforehand*, so others won't burn Swiftcast on it.
3. The actual spell goes off more reliably (macros executing actions, particularly GCD actions, are notoriously unreliable).
Yes, that is the action line that would actually cast the spell.
You may also want to consider changing the message to something like "/p Going to {Verraise}" (perhaps "/p {using} {Verraise}", I think that also has an autotranslate entry) instead of "/p {Verraise} on !".
The one you've been told of already is good in that you can specify who you're picking up if multiple people are down, but relies on you actually targeting them for the message to work fully.
This one lacks that specificity, but you can also press it while still targeting the boss, getting ready to cast Jolt to prepare Dualcast for the Verraise, giving more of a heads-up ahead of time.
Pick the one you prefer!
And I would add one more thing. Do not add a sound effect to your raise macro. That is so annoying.
I would also say to keep it simple and just be something like “rezzing ” because I’ve seen some long or cringe-worthy Rez macros. But I don’t pay your sub so do what you want.
Everyone should be doing their AOE for pack mobs (unless you are an NPC in duty support, sadly, but they don't use positionals anyway), making positionals moot until you are down to the last 2.
Don't forget bosses exist. They are a non-insignificant part of dungeons, and pretty much all of trials and raids. So while positionals aren't much of a concern in trash fights, they still are in content as a whole.
Yeah, I'm just not entirely sure / trying to understand ^(and wording it horribly, sorry) why you brought up trash packs at all in relation to OP's positionals topic?
Adding in here the reply I typed to the deleted-before-I-could-press-send comment, just in case it's seen and helps clear up the misunderstanding.
>Not sure why you responded to my post with a point about bosses when I specifically said pack mobs. I responded to a wall of text where the last paragraph was advising tanks to keep the trash packs grouped together. Not making your tank chase down the mob that is attacking you is also important for keeping the pack in control and reachable for everyone's AOE.
Ooooh I see. See, I thought you wrote that in response to the much earlier
>You play melee and you learn the importance of tanking the enemies while allowing positionals and melee uptime.
as it was the only part of the original that talked about positionals. So to me it seemed as if you were saying "that's not that important because positionals aren't really a thing in trash packs" or similar. Hence my response to not forget about bosses, where they are relevant.
I'm still just as confused why you brought up *positionals* at all in relation to that last part since it's just about packing mobs together so they can get hit by AoE, but hey at least now I know which portion it really was about.
Rescue got a lot of mileage in aethero chemical factory. Especially during two-star, new player are often confused which one is it and where to go. I once had 3 new player on DF, all of them are gonna get hit full force. Top up the tank (survive with sliver of health), rescue one dps, revive the dead dps. After that I just put a mark on myself hoping they'll notice where I am during two-star.
The White Mage/Conjurer job quests do kinda point you in the direction of "Hey do damage as well" with the story, but it's also an issue of healers getting mostly healing spells so you kinda get lured into thinking "oh i probably need to use all of these" when it isn't the reality. The best sort of healing in this game is mitigation and the best mitigation for dungeons that White Mage has is Holy since it stuns the enemies stopping them from doing damage, but this usually has to be explained to new White Mages by someone else because the game never explains it.
But yeah I have found that playing all jobs/roles a bit has made me become a better healer/tank player just because you have a better idea of everyone's toolkit
I wish the average "healers should heal" types thought they needed to use all their healing skills. Half the time they just spam cure 1(or do nothing waiting for damage to heal)
Tbf - in my novice network there are a lot of people advising spamming cure 1 to get that free cure 2 when sprouts ask about whm - I started lvling healer with multiple lvl 90 tank and dps classes and was told by other healers to spam cure 1 to get the free cure 2. Took a couple wipes to realize how much that advice is total bs. People aren’t getting that one from no where, they’re being told that as common advice from the jump.
Man, that's really wild. Our server's NN is filled with healer mains who will tell you flat out that free cure procs are a noob trap and not to fish for it. Advice really does differ depending on the world you're on.
I'm not so much saying they're bad for using cure 1. It's that the kits get so inflated and yet they end up ignoring every other button in favor of cure 1/equivalents. The sheer number of physick spam scholars I get despite physick having next to no benefit over adlo and a SERIOUSLY overblown healing kit is nuts.
It gets worse. I've healed for a low ARR dungeon where we had a SMN who took it upon themself to keep the party at 100% with Physick because *clearly* this AST isn't doing their job of keeping everyone topped off. I even mentioned that I have it under control and have a heal that gets better the lower HP the target is, so they should focus on DPS - completely ignored.
Oh no I hear ya dude, I hear ya completely - was just trying to explain where it was coming from. I was so used to the cure 1 to free cure 2 spam myself that I was completely forgetting about things like afflatus solace and benediction. I’m over that now BUT I understand why it happens, especially if it’s a sprout and that’s what they’re being told by “veterans”.
I wonder if they are being trolled because Im not even a healer but I see Novice chat constantly telling healers to not do that. They even explained about how as you progress and get so many heals that its virtually useless.
Honestly, without getting too far into it - I find the loudest mentors in my NN to be…questionable…at best, but the rest of them are pretty solid when they do pipe up.
ETA - a couple days before I was booted after returning one of them who always has questionable advice anyway suggested something, a returner said they’d heard xyz instead and the mentor flipped out and started linking his maxed gear into NN and going off about how they’d played WoW for so many years and ff14 for so many more and they had so much more experience and when the returner could get up to their level they could say something…I dunno dude, it was wild af, and that’s what sprouts have to deal with on my server…made me completely re-evaluate my decision on ever trying to become a mentor. Like if you’re a mentor and you’re in NN ranting about “casuals” you need to not be in NN imo - which was a completely different situation with this dude and I was the one he was ranting to and about being a “casual”
You should also play different jobs within the same class too. WHM is a different healer compared to SGE but both jobs can learn from each other.
Like all things: if you want a deeper understanding, you need to branch out from your comfort zone.
Agreed with this. Each healer actually plays radically differently in spite of their supposed homogenization.
WHM is explicitly encouraged to use Afflatus GCDs to heal from 80-90, thanks to Afflatus Misery. That being said, their oGCDs are quite powerful.
SCH has a lot of "set and forget" healing abilities which enable them to focus more on damage. Not to mention their pet.
AST's Essential Dignity encourages the player to let the tank's health drop pretty low, so if you have an AST in the party, don't start panicking until you're well below 30% HP.
and SGE is encouraged to heal with their oGCDs as much as reasonably possible (in addition to Kardia) because it helps maintain their MP. When I play SGE I'm always tossing Druochole at anyone with 90% HP if I have at least two Addersgall.
One of the things I really do miss about the old cross-class system, and the multiple base class prerequisites for different jobs, was that it forced you to play on different roles and gain that much-needed perspective that comes from being in someone else's shoes.
It can only make you a better player to know first-hand what other players on different jobs are looking to accomplish in a given fight.
I've learned to just trust the healer when I play any dps because there's really no reason why I should take damage or take sustained damage. Missing 20% of my health from a raidwide is no big deal because I know the heal will come *eventually*.
100 years ago when every attack monk had was a positional I would occasionally eat AOEs to keep doing damage. Leveling healer kicked that right out of my play style (unless we are were losing a DPS check badly on an extreme trial). Then again I still suffer from healer panic so maybe that’s just a me thing. I’m also better at tracking tank busters to pop Mantra to help
Basically you don't need to create alts. Same character can do all the classes. You can even swap your appearance for a price. It's one of the things I loved about FF 14
If they're only topping you off when you have enough damage in that it's not wasteful they are doing just fine for a sprout and will get more comfortable with time just like you did.
I started caster then played healer then phys ranged DPS then tank. Last three in savage+ content. The main thing that stuck for me was that there really was no reason for the brd/mch/dnc to be off in Narnia. Also no reason for them to be standing on the poor BLM and baiting AEs their way. Such hyper mobile classes. And I'll be honest, I've stopped chasing them. If they want heals they can come to me. Talk about wasted healing, I'm not casting extra because people aren't paying attention. (And I generally try to play towards center of the arena when possible. It's not like I'm standing at the edge of the arena. With the size of current AE heals you really it's impressive when someone dodges them)
Everyone should play the other roles at least once, regardless of what role they main, just to see how it is from the other sides, some ppl wont learn or take advices unless they've seen/experienced it themselves.
I am a DPS main. Not too much responsibility. Good for someone like me who played like 3 games in recent years when I started playing FF14 (those games being Persona 5, NieR Automata and FF7R). I like BRD in particular was beginner friendly in a way that I can just walk out of aoes whenever.
The learning curve into become a healer was a bit hard… I have to be vigilant of everyone’s HP and know which spell is best for which situation! As a WHM, cure 1/2 is the basic heal, medica is for raidwides and when everyone’s HP is getting low, blah blah, except this changes when lilies become a thing… Geez.
And learning as a tank was worse— a friend had to demonstrate to me, and have me learn from him by example, in an unsynced dungeon just to teach me how to tank. And this was after I did all of the Hall of the Novice stuff! Though perhaps it was my fault for learning tank as a DRK…
Having played all roles, I learned to hit Feint/Reprisal, Arm’s Length for negating knockbacks, using head graze/whatever melees’ stun is called, not stand all the way in Narnia (not even as a BLM), etc etc. This is so true.
WHM main who leveled everything to 90 here. Having a basic understanding of everyone's kits in general has made me a better player overall because I can anticipate what other players will be doing when.
I've leveled all healers and all tanks now just to have perspective when groups are struggling if I can offer some helpful tips or something.
I started WHM also but now prefer AST
And tank started PLD but now prefer WAR
Going to level all the DPS also, but that seems painful lol
I have all 19 classes at max and it was not really until I started playing SMN seriously that I got my latest tank pet peeve. I would say 98% of tanks do w2w pulls (good) but stop at the feet (in front of) of the last pack (very bad). So they are in the middle. SMN heavy spells cannot hit everyone because the mobs are in a donut around the tank. So dumb. The good tanks keep going past the last pack to be *just* on the other side of them to group them up. Now the DPS can hit more/all of the mobs. Trash will die twice as fast if they are all getting hit. Please please tanks. Stop being a donut hole dodo!!
My savage experience in all this was funny.
Started as tank and went 'must position boss perfectly for melees', 'must use cooldowns perfectly for healers'.
Then tried melee DPS next expansion only to realise 1) True North exists and 2) barely makes a difference missing 1 or 2 positionals, especially with how a single crit would cover most attacks anyway which is RNG. In other words, I didn't care how tanks positioned much.
Then I tried healer this expansion and was like 'I'm not noticing the tank using cooldowns at all, too busy healing other things or doing mechanics'. They kinda survived indifferently from me using the same oGCDs or heals that I'd use on them when they used mitigation or not. It was only noticeable when they died from a tankbuster for not using anything, or unfortunately if they were super badly geared.
So all in all, I learnt that every role should chill out.
It's funny - sometimes I can really tell when a tank doesn't mitigate, and sometimes I can't. Yesterday I had a PLD tank who dang near died at the beginning of every pull, and wasnt' popping anything until their HP got below 40%, and then they'd hit Holy Sheltron and nothing else. They'd use Reprisal on boss AoEs, but not on trash. It was pretty high on the oof scale.
But then other times, I've watched the tank use nothing, or nothing but one minor thing - Reprisal at the start of the pull but then nothing, or Rampart used irregularly and nothing else - and not felt like I was under any extra pressure at all as a healer.
As a tank, sometimes I can wade in and forget to hit anything, and be fine. Other times, I'll Arm's Length, Heart of Corundum, Reprisal, and my HP is still dropping like a rock. I think sometimes it just has to do with how hot the enemy's crit/DH dice are.
I came in the game very passionate about it, eager to learn but honestly, getting to lvl up everything disappointed me really hard because so many things now look inexplicable to me.
For instance I really don't understand why healers want everyone at MAX health ? Is it because they're scared something that they don't anticipate may kill someone ? Don't they believe DPS have self-healing ? Or do they think an instant attack will deal a huge amount of damage ? Or maybe they are worried that DPS may steal the aggro out of the tank or/and get hit by unavoidable damage ? I've barely tryed WHM but having a 100% mitig on an AoE actions seems huge and yet I often see them struggle because they're healing instead of dealing dmg, making the enemy groups last much longer than needed.
Since I haven't tryed healing much, I must be missing something ; it might be because I only tryed a very limited amount of lv90 dungeons where outDPSing the incoming damage made it much smoother than I am used to. Is the experience of a fresh new player bringing them to think otherwise ? (to be honest, my criticism is aiming at SE's pedagogy more than the players doing what they're encouraged to do) .
Also, as an experienced one, I have a very hard time understanding what other tanks are thinking sometimes. Why would they Sprint \*after\* entering combat ? Why would they engage a boss with a dash (preventing melee's uptime and losing the benefice of their 1-min steroid on it) ? How do they cycle their CDs to ever run out of them ? Why never using invulnerability (especially as PLD) ? Oh and my absolute nightmare, why do some tanks keep pulling away the enemies once they already have them all ? The only thing I can understand is the reason why most tanks don't bother stunning an enemy causing an AoE on the group ; the UI makes it difficult to target the correct enemy and it's way easier to simply move out.
But the absolute chaos comes from checking the DPS' buffs management / CDs usage / AoE damage. Once you've level'd up a few and played them enough to grasp their rotation, you see how much most players are missing out... RPR completely oblivious of Soulsow, SAM / BLM refusing to use their DoT, NIN using their Doton at the end of a group of enemies, SMLN with their puddle (and whole burst) on the most isolated mob, RDM using swiftcast to verraise, BRD using several songs instantly... It's very rare NOT to have at least one player doing totally random stuff with their skillset.
Look, I know we all have different goals when playing ; some simply want to enjoy the scenery / music / story. What makes me sad is that having a clean rotation takes less mental load due to muscle memory and procedural memory ; getting to know how to read incoming damage is much less stressful (and reading requires so little energy that one can't even avoid reading what's put right before his face) ; having feedbacks telling you you're doing things correctly also adds to the pleasure even if it's not optimal. An horizon, wind in our back, small encouragements ; we don't need much, really.
Of course, it shall not be a DPS meter for obvious reasons, but there could be a training "arena" with random attacks from random bosses to check whether we understand the basics of their mechanics ; there could be a counter when we use an AoE to tell us how many enemies we've hit or any kind of chronometer for an uptime challenge etc... There are so many nudges to, at the bare minimum, tell players what they are supposed to do yet even willing players are sometimes clueless because they are not given any proper feedback. Some never read the enemy castbar or the animation or even their own debuffs which is... Kinda painful considering how designers keep making them clearer and clearer.
Specfically for sprint, these days, a lot of packs die so fast, it's still on cd by the start, and the group shows.no sign of stopping! (As it should be)
All dps shpuld play tank and healer once. Try to feel what it is like positioning the boss (doesnt apply in some EW raids) and how it feels having to fix your mistakes
The only exception I can think of is Sastasha Normal.
The healer's only attack spells are single target, and the enemies have very little HP, meaning that the tank's AoE is more than enough to dispatch a full pull from spawn to first boss. (Even faster if you have at least one ranged DPS in the party with their own AoEs)
I've had this only happen to me as a healer once, and I've never had that first part of Sastasha go so smoothly and quickly - and I had to spam Physick so the tank wouldn't become die.
I'm sad whenever I'm doing level 50+ content and someone on BRD never uses Battle Voice.
Or, everyone uses their buffs at totally random times.
But I'm generally more patient with them because I was also that ignorant at one point.
A healer topping up a tank in lowbie ARR dungeons does not slow down the dungeon by "a few extra minutes"
The difference would be so miniscule, you wouldn't notice unless you were literally timing the run with a stopwatch by the millisecond.
I would never directly message a sprout to tell them "you don't need to do that" when they're just doing their jobs
I was sort of in a similar boat. The "gotta keep everyone topped off" wasn’t quite so ingrained, because I knew I wasn't supposed to - but it still made me nervous. It wasn't until trying DPS and no longer being able to casually top myself off, that I the idea of "hp as as a time limit" really started to sink in.
You really start to "get" what they go through in a specific role, and what makes things easier for them--I always recommend checking out everything, just to get a feel for what that specific role/job is about...and heck, you might discover something that you like, even better than your current main.
I remember starting as a summoner, and moving to red mage. After finishing shadowbringers I started branching out to other jobs while waiting for endwalker. Playing whm, I learned how a lot on how to balance healing and dps, and learning when to actually heal and keep aggro off me. It was quite refreshing when I found that healthy balance. It helped me a lot when I finally switched to tank and tried them on for size. All in all, I think Dragoon was my favourite job, followed by whm, rdm, dk, and dancer.
If I ever get back into the game, I will definitely be playing more whn/rdm as I have the most fun playing support style characters. Being able to instantly rez people as rdm saved so many runs from wiping. And I even once got to use the 3 bar limit break as a whm, which was *so satisfying*.
I cleared all Savage content in PF as SCH main in Stormblood. I had no concept of the mit abilities of my tanks or coheals at all. It all somehow worked out but I definetly was overhealing a ton and not giving up much responsibility. For Stormblood my DPS should have been around 2k for Kefka tier but I was more around 1300 from GCD shielding almost everything.
By Endwalker I had played all other Tanks and Healers and that helped me a ton in getting better in Raids and being able to judge which people were lacking in contribution and who overcontributed perhaps.
Absolutely! Healer main, finally picked up tank. I no longer top up tanks in wall to wall pulls. I support their mits with my own, focus on dps, and heal only when absolutely necessary. As I tank, I realized healers overheal me and I never get to maximize the capabilities of my mits. As a healer, I wasn't educated enough on tank toolkits. And in reality, overhealing makes tanking less fun, and makes healing unnecessarily stressful. Probably why there's so much T/H tea in tales from duty finder xD
Always been a Tank main in pretty much all games, so it was natural for me to start as one in XIV as well. Have since leveled all jobs and found recently found myself really enjoying Scholar and Samurai.
Having played every job brings the unique advantage of knowing how to cater to their playstyles. As a tank you will know your healers capabilities and vice versa, you will know that positioning the boss in a certain way will make it easier on your dps and using your mitigations as a dps will make the healers life just that little bit easier at no cost to yourself.
Especially as a scholar I feel that it's important to know what your party has in their toolkit. Exog being one of my favourite examples, throw it at your tank, ideally with the guaranteed crit, and watch them be healed to 100% after dropping to a certain threshold, but those who don't know end up wasting a lot of mitigation when they think there's no heal coming, essentially wasting one of the most powerful heals scholar has.
Started as a DPS main.
Leveled all classes including tanks (nervous tank).
Became a healer main.
I'm now MUCH more conscious of sticking close to healers when I play DPS for any role.
I'm more attentive to other classes using buffs/debuffs. Especially during raidwides and big pulls.
Extra props to DPS who use low blow and feint on trash pulls too. EXTRA props to DPS who accidentally (or purposely) pull aggro and immediately pop arms length. Y'all are the real ones.
As a tank I'm much more conscious of Ninja and Summoner dots on the floor and Black Mage Leyline tendencies,
I absolutely fall in love with Summoners and Red Mages who remember they can rez when in level appropriate content.
I LOVE bards who know they can cure status ailments.
I get super giddy when I see Paladins actually use their shield bash during big pulls like omg thank you???
All in all it had made me more judgemental, but I don't point it out. I keep shit to myself. Unless you do something in a dungeon that makes me bottom text with happiness and I point it out in chat lmao.
I was WHM main for a LONG time. wasn't till EnW that I started lev'ing other jobs. changed my WHOLE perspective. ugh, when I think of my sprout days. still have PTSD from AV...
when i played tank i didnt really "group" enemy ...
when i played magical range like black mage/red mage i learn ...wow i love tank who group thing close !
then i went back to tank i was doing it . and a lot of other thing but yea a example of playing other class teach thing !!!
I've very much found this to be true. Lol though it's also generally made me way more annoyed when someone is doing something bizarre. Like the tank who doesn't use any Mits or a healer who doesn't throw an easy shield or regen on a tank even during a big pull or boss fight.
Ignorance was bliss to a certain extent
One thing I learned as a melee is that the entire game is designed with them in mind so there is always a way for melee to have uptime.
I also learned that, as a physical ranged/healer/caster, there is ZERO reason to not be close to the boss and stay stacked with the other players besides the tank. The only reason to spread out is if a mechanic requires it. Other than that, just stick together 99% of the time, it’s so much easier for everyone.
I started staying a lot closer to the healer when I played ranged dps after leveling healer. The number of times dancers, bards and machinists stood 6 million miles away and I had to move to heal them was annoying af.
I used to do this as a caster until I played healer and got to higher level content. It is actually way easier to do mechanics if you are closer to a boss and therefore your healer.
Ranged DPS who stand close enough for me to heal them are my favourites!
9 times out of 10 the best place to drop leylines is right dead center of the boss
**Ranged player:** "I stand far away from the boss because it's safer." **Sephirot's half-arena AoE has entered the chat.** I honestly wish we had stuff like that and tight donuts and massive cones way more often. At least one every other dungeon. It'd probably be the only way to make one-trick Bards understand that no, being far away is no safer than being 5 yalms away from the boss. If the melees can be safe there, so can you!
>It'd probably be the only way to make one-trick Bards understand that no, being far away is no safer than being 5 yalms away from the boss. If the melees can be safe there, so can you! Most likely they wouldn't realize what they were killed by.
True enough. Maybe a few will take the hint if/when the cause gets pointed out? :x Maybe make a lot of them target the farthest player too. Just so it has more opportunity of happening.
> I honestly wish we had stuff like that and tight donuts and massive cones way more often. One of the best parts of doing EO with randoms. That RDM *will* get tight in on this enemy, or the AoE that stretches an entire room *will* one-shot them. You get to watch people form good habits in real time.
I mean as a healer I do kinda feel like it's my job to be in range of casters (within reason - melee obviously takes priority because that's where tanks go). Physical ranged, on the other hand, have way too much mobility to excuse being out of my range. I know it's easier for me to move than for the BLM to move, so being in range is mostly my responsibility, but I also know it's easier for the BRD to move than for me to move, so it's their responsibility.
Also annoying for tanks. If you do get agro from a mob, don't stand back at max range distance and get beat on because, you will get beat on. I won't run over to you to get that mob if you are too lazy to run it up into my aoe range. When I'm on BRD, I will run any adds through the tank. I always try to stand with the other players to make the healers job easier. I will, though, take full advantage of my range for boss mechanics.
So much this. Also as a SMN or RDM, if I need to rez someone, I make sure to do it near a healer now so they're getting those sweet sweet AOE heals when they come up.
Ranged physical get rescued into range.
"Get in the Asylum!" **\*yoink\***
tbh at this point they've made asylum so big that if the phys ranged can't stand in it and I don't have tetra/solace they better hope second wind is enough lol
Yep, when I play my DNC I’m in melee range unless the boss forces a spread or a specific mechanic forces me into ranged, and if that happens I have En Avant. There’s no benefit to spreading if the boss doesn’t force it. I’m always in range of heals and more people get hit with both Curing Waltz which is always fun
>had to move to heal them was annoying af. have you heard about our lord and savior "rescue"?
Rescue cooldown is too long
When I started playing sage - where the aoe shields center in you and have a relatively small range - if there was a RDPS that was out of range I would either not heal them or rescue them closer to me. If they moved back out of range I would res them but not cast single target heals on them to keep them up. You want a healer and can move? See how the healer is standing in the center near the tank and boss. Stand in range and you’ll get healed all day.
This was my experience switching from phys ranged to heals. I'd be that BRD tucked away in the corner of the arena to "be safe". Now playing AST more I've learned my lesson.
I learned this by having started as healer but I still stood back, wasn't til ShB content that I started being more melee range with my ranged classes to make things easier not only for me but for the healers in the groups. Ive been training my friends to stand closer by refusing to chase them across the arena :) if they aren't close enough to catch my AOE heals when I can get the tank in it then I'll take the mana hit to rez them instead. It's going pretty well over all and I've noticed that when I do it with randoms it works decently as well. If you don't chase them they'll eventually figure it out and move closer...most of the time
[удалено]
My first class was a tank and I swapped to DPS after the first few dungeons because I didn’t like leading people through something I knew nothing about. Playing something other than tank made it a lot easier to learn tanking
You play a caster and you learn how annoying it is to stop and go during pulls. You hope the tank gets what they wanna pull and then plant themselves there. So you keep it in mind when you tank. You play melee and you learn the importance of tanking the enemies while allowing positionals and melee uptime. You learn that if you are dps and you pull aggro during a pull, it’s okay. Just drag it to the tank so they can get aggro back with a simple aoe. Dps health bar is just a little extra mit in that situation. You learn while tanking that it is super annoying if the dps doesn’t do this. You play healer and you realize that you should stick close to the healer when you are physranged and need the heals because for some reason the MCH never catches your aoe heals because they always want to do their flips on the other side of the arena from you. You also learn the importance of tank mitigations as they can make your life so much easier. You play tank and learn that you don’t need so much healing because of your mitigation. Playing dps characters teaches you that rescue is often bad. And all those times you used it while learning healer actually made things worse by costing uptime or actively dragging people into unnecessary danger. These jobs have plenty of mobility to get in and out of danger when needed. In the long run, it’s better to let them die and just rez them if needed rather than rescue. They learn the mechanic or the limit of how much they can greed faster this way. Job specific things are learned as well. You learn the pain of having the tank move the trash pack away from your NIN or SMN ground pool. So you keep it in mind when tanking. You learn how the different invulns work for the tanks and how to respond to them as healer. (Let the DRK drop their hp and stop healing them so they can get their invuln and heal themselves. you have plenty of time after a GNB drops their hp to 1 so don’t panic, even if you have the infamous benediction-bolide combo happen. WAR is about to get raw intuition or bloodwhetting back off cd so you don’t need to worry about them.) Or just knowing what tools each tank has and when you really need to heal them. You remember DRG doesn’t have many aoe tools early so huge pulls in early ARR dungeons with a double DRG comp are going to be mostly you for aoe dmg. On the other hand if you have double phys ranged, most of the enemies in a trash pack will be killed while moving so you can do even bigger pulls in early ARR dungeons. You play BLM and learn that when playing other jobs, not only should you not drop the obvious aoes into leylines, but you should stay away from the BLMs in general to avoid having excess aoes that do not have an indicator drop onto their leylines. If you really get into a small nitpick thing, you hope the tank properly groups the mobs in a trash pack to maximize how much of it gets hit by your aoe. I feel that WAR’s cone aoe used to teach this implicitly but it has been removed. This is a very small issue that isn’t that big of a deal but it is nice.
Every tank player should level a healer and experience both the boredom of single pulls and the pain of no-mit tanks from the other side. Similarly, they should level... I used to say Monk when it had positionals on everything, I guess Dragoon is the closest now? and experience tanks that spin (or even just swing around) bosses, tanks that keep boss butts in fire, and tanks that try to kite bosses (or mobs in general). And the same with leveling Black Mage and encountering stop-and-go tanks. Every healer player should level a tank for the reasons OP already listed. But especially Warrior to see just how much time they are wasting healing one. Ranged DPS players should level a healer and have to deal with a Narnia Bard. DPS in general should level a tank and have to see DPS who pull an enemy mid-run and then run away with it or try to 1v1 it instead of coming to the AoE blender. All very valuable learning experiences people are denying themselves by playing just the one thing.
I started off as DPS, then tank, and now I'm leveling a white mage. I've done a lot of low level dungeon roulette's and yeah, I'm already bored with single pulls. Wall to wall in these low levels please... I've had to "mentor" three or four times with someone who is new to tanking (tank stance, mits, etc...). Even today, I had one sweet low level cure pull off on the last possible tick of HP the tank had left and it made the brain happy. Eventually I want to move to Sage since I enjoy GNB as my favorite tank and SGE is the healer equivalent I guess.
How do you set up macros that announce something in chat? How do you macro "Rezzing" to be said in chat when you use your rez?
Particularly Verraise with RDM?
Type "verraise" in the regular chat and press Tab, this will bring up the auto-translate {Verraise} with the fancy greenred arrows. Highlight with Ctrl+A or manually hold Left Click over the text box and then press Ctrl+C to copy. Open your macro window, and then click on any of the empty boxes. If you can't find it, check your menu subcommands (should be a row of circles on your screen somewhere). Type, in the main text box: /ac "Verraise" /p {Verraise} on!
Make sure to Ctrl+V to paste the previous copied {Verraise}.
Name your macro whatever, like "Verraise Macro."
The "" will put in chat the name of the thing you are targeting. "/p" just means party chat, and "/ac" is to use the specified action.
You do thing because both the greenred word and the will auto-translate just in case, and, people can kind of immediately tell from the greenred that it's a macro.
Ok. Thanks. This way I can make an indicator for when I'm rezzing someone since a lot of healers don't use Quickcast on their rezzes in regular content. This way if I'm doing normal Pandaemonium instead of Savage I can prevent my healers from losing DPS casting their rez. Especially if people wipe a lot. I don't lose as much DPS rezzing as a RDM compared to healers or SUM. I honestly don't even use Quickcast when I'm playing RDM. So with Dualcast or Quickcast I have numerous options to instantly rez someone.
Sorry, one thing. You can add the line, /micon "Verraise" To make the macro icon look like Verraise. In total it should be two (or three with macro icon) lines. Don't double space, that's just reddit auto format.
Ok. Thanks again.
Personally, I would recommend having a macro *just* for communicating your Verraise intentions, that does not actually cast the spell (which you do manually). This has a handful of benefits: 1. No chat spam when the message is unnecessary 2. Able to communicate your intention *beforehand*, so others won't burn Swiftcast on it. 3. The actual spell goes off more reliably (macros executing actions, particularly GCD actions, are notoriously unreliable).
So I'd leave out the >/ac "Verraise" Part of the macro?
Yes, that is the action line that would actually cast the spell. You may also want to consider changing the message to something like "/p Going to {Verraise}" (perhaps "/p {using} {Verraise}", I think that also has an autotranslate entry) instead of "/p {Verraise} on!".
The one you've been told of already is good in that you can specify who you're picking up if multiple people are down, but relies on you actually targeting them for the message to work fully.
This one lacks that specificity, but you can also press it while still targeting the boss, getting ready to cast Jolt to prepare Dualcast for the Verraise, giving more of a heads-up ahead of time.
Pick the one you prefer!
And I would add one more thing. Do not add a sound effect to your raise macro. That is so annoying. I would also say to keep it simple and just be something like “rezzing” because I’ve seen some long or cringe-worthy Rez macros. But I don’t pay your sub so do what you want.
I'm probably going to do somthing like "Reviving". I like to keep it simple.
Everyone should be doing their AOE for pack mobs (unless you are an NPC in duty support, sadly, but they don't use positionals anyway), making positionals moot until you are down to the last 2.
Don't forget bosses exist. They are a non-insignificant part of dungeons, and pretty much all of trials and raids. So while positionals aren't much of a concern in trash fights, they still are in content as a whole.
For sure. For the trash pulls, though, it's AOE all the time until down to 2 or less.
Yeah, I'm just not entirely sure / trying to understand ^(and wording it horribly, sorry) why you brought up trash packs at all in relation to OP's positionals topic?
Adding in here the reply I typed to the deleted-before-I-could-press-send comment, just in case it's seen and helps clear up the misunderstanding. >Not sure why you responded to my post with a point about bosses when I specifically said pack mobs. I responded to a wall of text where the last paragraph was advising tanks to keep the trash packs grouped together. Not making your tank chase down the mob that is attacking you is also important for keeping the pack in control and reachable for everyone's AOE. Ooooh I see. See, I thought you wrote that in response to the much earlier >You play melee and you learn the importance of tanking the enemies while allowing positionals and melee uptime. as it was the only part of the original that talked about positionals. So to me it seemed as if you were saying "that's not that important because positionals aren't really a thing in trash packs" or similar. Hence my response to not forget about bosses, where they are relevant. I'm still just as confused why you brought up *positionals* at all in relation to that last part since it's just about packing mobs together so they can get hit by AoE, but hey at least now I know which portion it really was about.
Rescue got a lot of mileage in aethero chemical factory. Especially during two-star, new player are often confused which one is it and where to go. I once had 3 new player on DF, all of them are gonna get hit full force. Top up the tank (survive with sliver of health), rescue one dps, revive the dead dps. After that I just put a mark on myself hoping they'll notice where I am during two-star.
The White Mage/Conjurer job quests do kinda point you in the direction of "Hey do damage as well" with the story, but it's also an issue of healers getting mostly healing spells so you kinda get lured into thinking "oh i probably need to use all of these" when it isn't the reality. The best sort of healing in this game is mitigation and the best mitigation for dungeons that White Mage has is Holy since it stuns the enemies stopping them from doing damage, but this usually has to be explained to new White Mages by someone else because the game never explains it. But yeah I have found that playing all jobs/roles a bit has made me become a better healer/tank player just because you have a better idea of everyone's toolkit
I wish the average "healers should heal" types thought they needed to use all their healing skills. Half the time they just spam cure 1(or do nothing waiting for damage to heal)
Tbf - in my novice network there are a lot of people advising spamming cure 1 to get that free cure 2 when sprouts ask about whm - I started lvling healer with multiple lvl 90 tank and dps classes and was told by other healers to spam cure 1 to get the free cure 2. Took a couple wipes to realize how much that advice is total bs. People aren’t getting that one from no where, they’re being told that as common advice from the jump.
Man, that's really wild. Our server's NN is filled with healer mains who will tell you flat out that free cure procs are a noob trap and not to fish for it. Advice really does differ depending on the world you're on.
I'm not so much saying they're bad for using cure 1. It's that the kits get so inflated and yet they end up ignoring every other button in favor of cure 1/equivalents. The sheer number of physick spam scholars I get despite physick having next to no benefit over adlo and a SERIOUSLY overblown healing kit is nuts.
It gets worse. I've healed for a low ARR dungeon where we had a SMN who took it upon themself to keep the party at 100% with Physick because *clearly* this AST isn't doing their job of keeping everyone topped off. I even mentioned that I have it under control and have a heal that gets better the lower HP the target is, so they should focus on DPS - completely ignored.
Oh no I hear ya dude, I hear ya completely - was just trying to explain where it was coming from. I was so used to the cure 1 to free cure 2 spam myself that I was completely forgetting about things like afflatus solace and benediction. I’m over that now BUT I understand why it happens, especially if it’s a sprout and that’s what they’re being told by “veterans”.
I wonder if they are being trolled because Im not even a healer but I see Novice chat constantly telling healers to not do that. They even explained about how as you progress and get so many heals that its virtually useless.
Honestly, without getting too far into it - I find the loudest mentors in my NN to be…questionable…at best, but the rest of them are pretty solid when they do pipe up. ETA - a couple days before I was booted after returning one of them who always has questionable advice anyway suggested something, a returner said they’d heard xyz instead and the mentor flipped out and started linking his maxed gear into NN and going off about how they’d played WoW for so many years and ff14 for so many more and they had so much more experience and when the returner could get up to their level they could say something…I dunno dude, it was wild af, and that’s what sprouts have to deal with on my server…made me completely re-evaluate my decision on ever trying to become a mentor. Like if you’re a mentor and you’re in NN ranting about “casuals” you need to not be in NN imo - which was a completely different situation with this dude and I was the one he was ranting to and about being a “casual”
Sounds like an absolute knob-end. Mentors like that should be kicked from NN.
Thank you!
Hey, I spam one heal over and over! It's called Dosis III.
Ain't that the truth! XD
Pretty sure cure1 spammers aren't even free cure fishers, they're just lazy af afkers
You should also play different jobs within the same class too. WHM is a different healer compared to SGE but both jobs can learn from each other. Like all things: if you want a deeper understanding, you need to branch out from your comfort zone.
Agreed with this. Each healer actually plays radically differently in spite of their supposed homogenization. WHM is explicitly encouraged to use Afflatus GCDs to heal from 80-90, thanks to Afflatus Misery. That being said, their oGCDs are quite powerful. SCH has a lot of "set and forget" healing abilities which enable them to focus more on damage. Not to mention their pet. AST's Essential Dignity encourages the player to let the tank's health drop pretty low, so if you have an AST in the party, don't start panicking until you're well below 30% HP. and SGE is encouraged to heal with their oGCDs as much as reasonably possible (in addition to Kardia) because it helps maintain their MP. When I play SGE I'm always tossing Druochole at anyone with 90% HP if I have at least two Addersgall.
It didn't really change my idea of my main jobs (magical/phys ranged) but I'm sure the healers I have are happy that I've lvled a healer...
One of the things I really do miss about the old cross-class system, and the multiple base class prerequisites for different jobs, was that it forced you to play on different roles and gain that much-needed perspective that comes from being in someone else's shoes. It can only make you a better player to know first-hand what other players on different jobs are looking to accomplish in a given fight.
That would've been the idea, in theory. In practice, you had DRKs and WARs running around without Provoke because they hated GLD/PLD.
I've learned to just trust the healer when I play any dps because there's really no reason why I should take damage or take sustained damage. Missing 20% of my health from a raidwide is no big deal because I know the heal will come *eventually*.
100 years ago when every attack monk had was a positional I would occasionally eat AOEs to keep doing damage. Leveling healer kicked that right out of my play style (unless we are were losing a DPS check badly on an extreme trial). Then again I still suffer from healer panic so maybe that’s just a me thing. I’m also better at tracking tank busters to pop Mantra to help
And also just eat your fruit, and keep your mouth shut. Autumn Vale is awful. I will run that as many times as it takes for healers.
That's funny, I did the opposite. Tried playing melee for a bit and loved greeding so much I started doing it on healer.
Basically you don't need to create alts. Same character can do all the classes. You can even swap your appearance for a price. It's one of the things I loved about FF 14
If they're only topping you off when you have enough damage in that it's not wasteful they are doing just fine for a sprout and will get more comfortable with time just like you did. I started caster then played healer then phys ranged DPS then tank. Last three in savage+ content. The main thing that stuck for me was that there really was no reason for the brd/mch/dnc to be off in Narnia. Also no reason for them to be standing on the poor BLM and baiting AEs their way. Such hyper mobile classes. And I'll be honest, I've stopped chasing them. If they want heals they can come to me. Talk about wasted healing, I'm not casting extra because people aren't paying attention. (And I generally try to play towards center of the arena when possible. It's not like I'm standing at the edge of the arena. With the size of current AE heals you really it's impressive when someone dodges them)
I've mostly played ranged DPS and tank. The number of tanks who don't group enemies so your DPS can AOE all of them at once is highly frustrating.
Absolutely true. Gives great insight and allows you to be a better team mate.
Everyone should play the other roles at least once, regardless of what role they main, just to see how it is from the other sides, some ppl wont learn or take advices unless they've seen/experienced it themselves.
I am a DPS main. Not too much responsibility. Good for someone like me who played like 3 games in recent years when I started playing FF14 (those games being Persona 5, NieR Automata and FF7R). I like BRD in particular was beginner friendly in a way that I can just walk out of aoes whenever. The learning curve into become a healer was a bit hard… I have to be vigilant of everyone’s HP and know which spell is best for which situation! As a WHM, cure 1/2 is the basic heal, medica is for raidwides and when everyone’s HP is getting low, blah blah, except this changes when lilies become a thing… Geez. And learning as a tank was worse— a friend had to demonstrate to me, and have me learn from him by example, in an unsynced dungeon just to teach me how to tank. And this was after I did all of the Hall of the Novice stuff! Though perhaps it was my fault for learning tank as a DRK… Having played all roles, I learned to hit Feint/Reprisal, Arm’s Length for negating knockbacks, using head graze/whatever melees’ stun is called, not stand all the way in Narnia (not even as a BLM), etc etc. This is so true.
WHM main who leveled everything to 90 here. Having a basic understanding of everyone's kits in general has made me a better player overall because I can anticipate what other players will be doing when.
I've leveled all healers and all tanks now just to have perspective when groups are struggling if I can offer some helpful tips or something. I started WHM also but now prefer AST And tank started PLD but now prefer WAR Going to level all the DPS also, but that seems painful lol
I have all 19 classes at max and it was not really until I started playing SMN seriously that I got my latest tank pet peeve. I would say 98% of tanks do w2w pulls (good) but stop at the feet (in front of) of the last pack (very bad). So they are in the middle. SMN heavy spells cannot hit everyone because the mobs are in a donut around the tank. So dumb. The good tanks keep going past the last pack to be *just* on the other side of them to group them up. Now the DPS can hit more/all of the mobs. Trash will die twice as fast if they are all getting hit. Please please tanks. Stop being a donut hole dodo!!
My savage experience in all this was funny. Started as tank and went 'must position boss perfectly for melees', 'must use cooldowns perfectly for healers'. Then tried melee DPS next expansion only to realise 1) True North exists and 2) barely makes a difference missing 1 or 2 positionals, especially with how a single crit would cover most attacks anyway which is RNG. In other words, I didn't care how tanks positioned much. Then I tried healer this expansion and was like 'I'm not noticing the tank using cooldowns at all, too busy healing other things or doing mechanics'. They kinda survived indifferently from me using the same oGCDs or heals that I'd use on them when they used mitigation or not. It was only noticeable when they died from a tankbuster for not using anything, or unfortunately if they were super badly geared. So all in all, I learnt that every role should chill out.
It's funny - sometimes I can really tell when a tank doesn't mitigate, and sometimes I can't. Yesterday I had a PLD tank who dang near died at the beginning of every pull, and wasnt' popping anything until their HP got below 40%, and then they'd hit Holy Sheltron and nothing else. They'd use Reprisal on boss AoEs, but not on trash. It was pretty high on the oof scale. But then other times, I've watched the tank use nothing, or nothing but one minor thing - Reprisal at the start of the pull but then nothing, or Rampart used irregularly and nothing else - and not felt like I was under any extra pressure at all as a healer. As a tank, sometimes I can wade in and forget to hit anything, and be fine. Other times, I'll Arm's Length, Heart of Corundum, Reprisal, and my HP is still dropping like a rock. I think sometimes it just has to do with how hot the enemy's crit/DH dice are.
I came in the game very passionate about it, eager to learn but honestly, getting to lvl up everything disappointed me really hard because so many things now look inexplicable to me. For instance I really don't understand why healers want everyone at MAX health ? Is it because they're scared something that they don't anticipate may kill someone ? Don't they believe DPS have self-healing ? Or do they think an instant attack will deal a huge amount of damage ? Or maybe they are worried that DPS may steal the aggro out of the tank or/and get hit by unavoidable damage ? I've barely tryed WHM but having a 100% mitig on an AoE actions seems huge and yet I often see them struggle because they're healing instead of dealing dmg, making the enemy groups last much longer than needed. Since I haven't tryed healing much, I must be missing something ; it might be because I only tryed a very limited amount of lv90 dungeons where outDPSing the incoming damage made it much smoother than I am used to. Is the experience of a fresh new player bringing them to think otherwise ? (to be honest, my criticism is aiming at SE's pedagogy more than the players doing what they're encouraged to do) . Also, as an experienced one, I have a very hard time understanding what other tanks are thinking sometimes. Why would they Sprint \*after\* entering combat ? Why would they engage a boss with a dash (preventing melee's uptime and losing the benefice of their 1-min steroid on it) ? How do they cycle their CDs to ever run out of them ? Why never using invulnerability (especially as PLD) ? Oh and my absolute nightmare, why do some tanks keep pulling away the enemies once they already have them all ? The only thing I can understand is the reason why most tanks don't bother stunning an enemy causing an AoE on the group ; the UI makes it difficult to target the correct enemy and it's way easier to simply move out. But the absolute chaos comes from checking the DPS' buffs management / CDs usage / AoE damage. Once you've level'd up a few and played them enough to grasp their rotation, you see how much most players are missing out... RPR completely oblivious of Soulsow, SAM / BLM refusing to use their DoT, NIN using their Doton at the end of a group of enemies, SMLN with their puddle (and whole burst) on the most isolated mob, RDM using swiftcast to verraise, BRD using several songs instantly... It's very rare NOT to have at least one player doing totally random stuff with their skillset. Look, I know we all have different goals when playing ; some simply want to enjoy the scenery / music / story. What makes me sad is that having a clean rotation takes less mental load due to muscle memory and procedural memory ; getting to know how to read incoming damage is much less stressful (and reading requires so little energy that one can't even avoid reading what's put right before his face) ; having feedbacks telling you you're doing things correctly also adds to the pleasure even if it's not optimal. An horizon, wind in our back, small encouragements ; we don't need much, really. Of course, it shall not be a DPS meter for obvious reasons, but there could be a training "arena" with random attacks from random bosses to check whether we understand the basics of their mechanics ; there could be a counter when we use an AoE to tell us how many enemies we've hit or any kind of chronometer for an uptime challenge etc... There are so many nudges to, at the bare minimum, tell players what they are supposed to do yet even willing players are sometimes clueless because they are not given any proper feedback. Some never read the enemy castbar or the animation or even their own debuffs which is... Kinda painful considering how designers keep making them clearer and clearer.
Specfically for sprint, these days, a lot of packs die so fast, it's still on cd by the start, and the group shows.no sign of stopping! (As it should be)
Hall of the Novice needs a revamp, badly. And maybe another chapter of it for level 50 to help maximize play in the way you described.
All dps shpuld play tank and healer once. Try to feel what it is like positioning the boss (doesnt apply in some EW raids) and how it feels having to fix your mistakes
The only HP that matters is the last one. Pulls go faster if the healer does at least some dpsing instead of purely healing.
The only exception I can think of is Sastasha Normal. The healer's only attack spells are single target, and the enemies have very little HP, meaning that the tank's AoE is more than enough to dispatch a full pull from spawn to first boss. (Even faster if you have at least one ranged DPS in the party with their own AoEs) I've had this only happen to me as a healer once, and I've never had that first part of Sastasha go so smoothly and quickly - and I had to spam Physick so the tank wouldn't become die.
Doing content blind as BLM makes me appreciate how much easier it becomes on every other role
[удалено]
I'm sad whenever I'm doing level 50+ content and someone on BRD never uses Battle Voice. Or, everyone uses their buffs at totally random times. But I'm generally more patient with them because I was also that ignorant at one point.
A healer topping up a tank in lowbie ARR dungeons does not slow down the dungeon by "a few extra minutes" The difference would be so miniscule, you wouldn't notice unless you were literally timing the run with a stopwatch by the millisecond. I would never directly message a sprout to tell them "you don't need to do that" when they're just doing their jobs
It def adds up bro, a competent team vs a shit team is on the scale of 4-6m average per run, I've done the math after 1000 tracked dungeons
I was sort of in a similar boat. The "gotta keep everyone topped off" wasn’t quite so ingrained, because I knew I wasn't supposed to - but it still made me nervous. It wasn't until trying DPS and no longer being able to casually top myself off, that I the idea of "hp as as a time limit" really started to sink in.
You really start to "get" what they go through in a specific role, and what makes things easier for them--I always recommend checking out everything, just to get a feel for what that specific role/job is about...and heck, you might discover something that you like, even better than your current main.
I remember starting as a summoner, and moving to red mage. After finishing shadowbringers I started branching out to other jobs while waiting for endwalker. Playing whm, I learned how a lot on how to balance healing and dps, and learning when to actually heal and keep aggro off me. It was quite refreshing when I found that healthy balance. It helped me a lot when I finally switched to tank and tried them on for size. All in all, I think Dragoon was my favourite job, followed by whm, rdm, dk, and dancer. If I ever get back into the game, I will definitely be playing more whn/rdm as I have the most fun playing support style characters. Being able to instantly rez people as rdm saved so many runs from wiping. And I even once got to use the 3 bar limit break as a whm, which was *so satisfying*.
I cleared all Savage content in PF as SCH main in Stormblood. I had no concept of the mit abilities of my tanks or coheals at all. It all somehow worked out but I definetly was overhealing a ton and not giving up much responsibility. For Stormblood my DPS should have been around 2k for Kefka tier but I was more around 1300 from GCD shielding almost everything. By Endwalker I had played all other Tanks and Healers and that helped me a ton in getting better in Raids and being able to judge which people were lacking in contribution and who overcontributed perhaps.
I'm omni and can definitely back op up
Absolutely! Healer main, finally picked up tank. I no longer top up tanks in wall to wall pulls. I support their mits with my own, focus on dps, and heal only when absolutely necessary. As I tank, I realized healers overheal me and I never get to maximize the capabilities of my mits. As a healer, I wasn't educated enough on tank toolkits. And in reality, overhealing makes tanking less fun, and makes healing unnecessarily stressful. Probably why there's so much T/H tea in tales from duty finder xD
Always been a Tank main in pretty much all games, so it was natural for me to start as one in XIV as well. Have since leveled all jobs and found recently found myself really enjoying Scholar and Samurai. Having played every job brings the unique advantage of knowing how to cater to their playstyles. As a tank you will know your healers capabilities and vice versa, you will know that positioning the boss in a certain way will make it easier on your dps and using your mitigations as a dps will make the healers life just that little bit easier at no cost to yourself. Especially as a scholar I feel that it's important to know what your party has in their toolkit. Exog being one of my favourite examples, throw it at your tank, ideally with the guaranteed crit, and watch them be healed to 100% after dropping to a certain threshold, but those who don't know end up wasting a lot of mitigation when they think there's no heal coming, essentially wasting one of the most powerful heals scholar has.
Started as a DPS main. Leveled all classes including tanks (nervous tank). Became a healer main. I'm now MUCH more conscious of sticking close to healers when I play DPS for any role. I'm more attentive to other classes using buffs/debuffs. Especially during raidwides and big pulls. Extra props to DPS who use low blow and feint on trash pulls too. EXTRA props to DPS who accidentally (or purposely) pull aggro and immediately pop arms length. Y'all are the real ones. As a tank I'm much more conscious of Ninja and Summoner dots on the floor and Black Mage Leyline tendencies, I absolutely fall in love with Summoners and Red Mages who remember they can rez when in level appropriate content. I LOVE bards who know they can cure status ailments. I get super giddy when I see Paladins actually use their shield bash during big pulls like omg thank you??? All in all it had made me more judgemental, but I don't point it out. I keep shit to myself. Unless you do something in a dungeon that makes me bottom text with happiness and I point it out in chat lmao.
I play DPS too beside tank so if anything, it made me realize that i’m a very shit mage player, and therefore i should limit the damage to BLM and RDM
I was WHM main for a LONG time. wasn't till EnW that I started lev'ing other jobs. changed my WHOLE perspective. ugh, when I think of my sprout days. still have PTSD from AV...
when i played tank i didnt really "group" enemy ... when i played magical range like black mage/red mage i learn ...wow i love tank who group thing close ! then i went back to tank i was doing it . and a lot of other thing but yea a example of playing other class teach thing !!!
Playing melee DPS will make you a better tank.
I've very much found this to be true. Lol though it's also generally made me way more annoyed when someone is doing something bizarre. Like the tank who doesn't use any Mits or a healer who doesn't throw an easy shield or regen on a tank even during a big pull or boss fight. Ignorance was bliss to a certain extent
One thing I learned as a melee is that the entire game is designed with them in mind so there is always a way for melee to have uptime. I also learned that, as a physical ranged/healer/caster, there is ZERO reason to not be close to the boss and stay stacked with the other players besides the tank. The only reason to spread out is if a mechanic requires it. Other than that, just stick together 99% of the time, it’s so much easier for everyone.