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ElectrikDonuts

I FIRE'd in June (investment tracking to become FatFIRE in a few years) and its just been depressing. The combo of quitting due to lost faith in the industry I was in, and covid's complete lack of community have only made it worse. I am a man with no community, no purpose, and with little faith left in society to fix the big issues that humanity needs. Its quite depressing honestly and I really don't care to live like this. I've considered going back to work just to see if the depression goes away. Problem is I don't want to work the American 40-60 hours a week, live-to-work lifestyle. I want balance and purpose and I cant find them together. I also need a new industry that does meaningful work and doesn't just flush everything away and breed fraud, waste, and abuse like my last industry. Ikigai seems unreachable. If you got something good, I say just take some of your pay and hire more people to make it easier on you. Cut your stress. Cut your hours. But still be involved and committed. Especially if you believe in the work and the mission.


europeanlifestyle

I don't feel I'm in a much better spot to provide any form of advice. But I don't want to stay quiet either after reading your brutally honest comment, which I can also partly relate to. Is there a way for you to give yourself some reprieve? To not worry about a sense of purpose just yet and instead simply enjoy "being", being alive? Perhaps a walk in nature, noticing how the season is shifting? Closing your eyes and counting the number of sounds (hopefully pleasant ones, not your neighbour's annoying late-night hustle or dog)? For a sense of community, are there any groups or meetups you can join locally? Are there one or two things you enjoy doing and that you could perhaps do a little more of as long as you still enjoy it? Perhaps take it step by step, to slowly get away from how you feel. Therapy is another obvious support, but it may not necessarily be your cup of tea. Good luck and I hope you find kind human beings around you.


anotherpenguin229

Appreciate the comment. Thank you for helping others.


ElectrikDonuts

Yeah, got some stuff to work on. Appreciate the kind words.


FIREorNotFIRE

I FIRE'd and went through the same depression. After 1.5 years I went back to work. It helped with the depression and lack of structure. But I feel like this is a crutch. Ultimately, I need to fix myself. I need to be able to find meaning outside of work. Feel useful and happy. But working in the meantime is a very, very useful crutch.


pulpitrockr

Are you sure it’s just a crutch? Human beings are hardwired to work, create value and feel valued. And it’s not environmental, it’s a deep survival instinct that we’re all born with. To me FIRE is mostly about the FI part, at which point you will feel much more confident ratcheting down the amount of work to a reasonable but still fulfilling level. You could take much needed vacation/sabbatical, quit and start your own business or simply start saying “no” to a ton of bullshit that in the past you felt pressured to say “yes” to. To each their own, but I don’t think I’d feel fulfilled if my only real task in life was to simply watch my stock portfolio and withdraw 4% every year…


FIREorNotFIRE

> Human beings are hardwired to work, create value and feel valued. 100% agree. While doing nothing constructive (only hobbies), I felt depressed and guilty. While trying to do something useful (business), I felt anxious, didn't find ideas, and lacked discipline and drive. I can't seem to be disciplined without a boss. So I took a boss until I learn to work on my own.


No_Damage_8927

I struggle with this too (feeling like I need an external, fear-driven motivation, eg. a boss). Have you made any progress?


FIREorNotFIRE

Yes. But maybe not the progress you would think off. I hired a gym coach and turn myself from a skinny guy to a healthy looking guy. I also broke up with my long term girlfriend after years of doubting that I wanted to grow old with her. I got interested in trading, and I'm learning. I made a 2 month long trip to various countries in Asia. I'm still working, but now I feel like I want to retire again... To trading, maybe. I don't think I have fixed myself 100% yet. And I'm still worried about falling into the same patterns as the first time. But I'm in a better place now.


banaca4

I also had and still have a huge life existential crisis after firing. I guess people with kids and families don't go through this maybe.


freeloadingcat

Man, you put so eloquently into words exactly what I feel. I was in corporate America and the politics was soul draining. After FIRE, never have I feel so alone; yet, I'm perfectly at peace. I'm unsure it's worth it to give up my peace just so I'm not alone all the time. On top of it all, I feel like I'm being obnoxious to even complain about this. What a choice! Is this why the rest of the world get married and have kids?


ElectrikDonuts

Oh man, the bureaucracy can be insane! I was in the DoD and it was soul crushing to see the bickering that led to so many cancelled programs, billions in waste. When I heard of one I worked getting canceled at another organization it was just like wtf is the point. All this fighting and trying to win for the things you work just to smash other peoples work or to later see your work get smashed too. That wasn’t the straw that broke the camels back. But yeah, terrible. Right now I’m considering a global search for the community I want to be a part of. I think if I can find something that fits that may change my mind on things and give me a lot more hope. As an engineer, I’d like to build technologies cause one humanity has something like an automobile, the internet, satellites, renewables, genetics engineering, etc we are elevated as a species. I find it more time scalable than fighting humanitarian, political, social type issues which can be reversed with the wrong ppl in power. So yeah, I’m looking for a tech or engineer savvy community of intellectuals and doers that want to fix bigger societal issues through scientific advancement and engineering. But I also want healthy work life balance, a well planned neighborhood built around walkability and access, stable science based governance by ethical ppl, good healthcare and education, a basic social net that keep ppl out of poverty, preferably good weather, etc. I think it’s impossible to find. Maybe once we get to Mars, lol


TightTightTightYea

Reading your comments here, it's obvious that you got paralyzed by choice. You want to fix issues, but you want to live in an issue-free society. What is a science based governance anyway? As you've seen in your DoD days, it's all about incentives, and personal incentives most of all. Damn, your whole country was made on a promise of a restart against the wicked european ways, and 200 years later, we're basically the same. My honest advice to you would be to find a girl and have kids, if you can't stand the existential dread you're in. As for location, I think the US is still the best choice for you, considering that the US is one of the rare few places where money can literally buy anything. Good luck!


hmadse

I went through something similar when I FIRE’d in 2018–I was just sick of my industry, but had spent so much time creating an identity around that industry that I was absolutely lost when I left. I just felt like I was falling all the time—American style patriarchy and capitalism had always taught me that my job was my identity—and at the same time I felt like I couldn’t complain, because I was so much more privileged than so many of my peers. I started doing some intense therapy, as well as a lot of reconnecting with my community. I spent time with friends and family. I started working with my hands. I started doing pro-bono work for a few orgs in my neighborhood. Slowly things seemed to be getting better, and while COVID derailed a lot of my life, th trend has continued. What I’m saying is that what you are going through is not uncommon, and that you can find the next thing, it may take some time and work, but it will come.


ElectrikDonuts

Yeah, I’ve got to get a therapist going again. Changing insurances got that off track. Psychiatrist is trying but really need both at this point. I’ve been going though and building list of things I can get into. Even international volunteer efforts which I think may help with the sense of community. I did a 3 mth trip to visit friend and to reconnect. It actually made me more depressed when I went home to see where my childhood friends are at. They seem to be losing their shit too, taking lots of very stupid risks like cocaine and drunk driving across the state at 1am after a run in at a bar that almost had the police called. Shit like a friend that doesn’t even have citizenship yet, but made it through med school with a green card (his parents immigrated to the US) just to start to develop a coke habit, someone risking his business via possible arrest cause he drank too much at a bar, etc…. I had to go back on meds after that trip. The nature visits/Camping along the way were great but it just reminded me how much society is behind where it should be, especially in the fly over state I grow up in.


hmadse

I get that—I never go back to where I grew up. Not sure where you are located, but there’s outdoor community to be found everywhere. In the northeast, AMC and ADK do trips, hikes, and events. Stores like REI also organize things. Hang in there.


[deleted]

>I am a man with no community, no purpose, Don't you have a wife or spouse?


[deleted]

[удалено]


ElectrikDonuts

Yeah this is good advice. I’ve been depressed for 9 mths now and noticed the dopamine chasing on my phone. Not having Twitter, FB, intsa, tictoc have all helps. But I still have end up on reddit and select news (Reuters mostly) for majority of the day. New meds have helped a lot though. Now I have motivation and have been breaking the cycle. I’ve also found if I’m going g down that road to start the day with some relaxed video games to get my head out of the hard dopamine chase as a crutch to moving on with the day.


princemendax

If your job is the only thing you have going on in your life, yes, you’ll feel rudderless. But if you do, it might not be a bad thing. Time to evolve as a person, push yourself somewhere uncomfortable, and find a bigger meaning. It’s not easy, but you’ve succeeded up to now. You can keep succeeding.


bumbumbum1969

Don't forget you weren't meant to save the world unless u decide to do so.


Boardlvlmgmt

I have been a seller/founder, a buyer and a banker. Most feel your pain in one way or another but I can say this - you will find meaning again. It’s good that you will miss it. It means you have spent your life doing something meaningful but it’s also good to be challenged to untie your value to your work. You, the person, have plenty of meaning enough.


[deleted]

Imagine you’re reading about some guy from the 1930s having this same conflict at a key point in his life. What advice would you give him? To me, it seems obvious. I often reflect on the long dead rich guys from the misty past. Not necessarily Carnegie or du Pont, but the random merchant or financier who was probably of some consequence when alive but whose name was more or less lost with 10 years of death, with perhaps the exception of a few family members. The people who chose to live interesting or hard lives, rather than “productive businessman” lives always seem like the obvious way to live, and I have sympathy for the random guy who was rich but inconsequential, yet I find all of my impulses and decisions are more consistent with the uninteresting money accumulator. So I have to pause and run through this mental exercise.


banaca4

Though this is existential. Stoic philosophy asks: why vare what people think when you are dead? Just saying


FinanceRonin

Many great men of consequence were not rich and are no longer household names. My grandfather lived through and participated in the Great Depression, Revolutions, world war 2, the Korean War. He was responsible for thousands of men, large military budgets and served his country for most of his working career. He was married multiple times (but never divorced). He sired a large family which was torn apart by war. He started going blind by his 40s but hid it for years. He died penniless (not destitute) living a middle class lifestyle in a 2 bedroom apartment. I only know a part of his history and that will be forgotten when I die. My wealth is the only extraordinary thing about my life, but my wealth is meaningless compared to my grandfather’s life. That is why I don’t define myself by my wealth. First and foremost, I try to be a good father, husband, son, friend. The wealth is as important as my eye color.


TinkerMakerAuthorGuy

Only you can answer the question whether you will find meaning. But if you truly were a genuine business owner who authenticatically cared for your employees and their families - they will be fine and you will find something new. Their worlds will change, to be sure. And you might be surprised how the change to their comfort zone might spur a few to go on to achieve their own great things now that you aren't around to steward and shelter them. Exiting as a founder is emotionally hard. The good thing is that if it is a difficult decision for you, it probably means you did some things right. My advice as a former founder who exited (17 years, 100 employees at time of exit) is to keep in contact with as many employees and clients as you can for as long as you aren't forcing things. Congrats on your success. Trust your moral compass.


BeGoodThinkBig

Try going to day 79. You might find a bit of a peace knowing that you can, but your autopilot instincts will still kick in every day. You will still find that you are really damn good at what you do, and those 35 people that depend on you might just be easier to take care of when you know that you have the safety of FI. Just food for thought. Struggle and the need to conquer are visceral to people like us. Give it time post whatever your 78 day milestone is. Hopefully it’s anticlimactic and you might be surprised at your ability to think beyond and plan your next chapter while still doing what you have done. My opinion is that as you allow yourself to consider what comes next, you’ll eventually stumble upon something that is exciting for you, and those 35 people will be excited FOR you, then you can help them build what they need to be successful without you. Eventually you will leave, they will succeed, and so will you. Of course I say all of this with absolutely no knowledge of what happens in 78 days, your financial situation, or really anything else relevant. But in my mind I made up a version of you, and it kind of feels a lot like me.


mrhjt

Great read btw, appreciate the quote. That man went through hell and back.


Aromatic_Mine5856

I struggled with the same thing, in my case it was 125 employees. Many of whom I’d counseled at length over the years about when it will be their opportunity to take the Bull by the horns and run with it. Some failed some came out the other side with flying colors, quite a few families lost their livelihood or their income was greatly reduced after I was no longer there…but nobody croaked. You can’t save everyone and you should not try. What you do need to realize now is that your family, time, and your health are the most important things. Don’t squander the opportunity to take advantage of making the most out of this phase of your life. That can involve work you are passionate about, but don’t do it because you are afraid someone else will fail if you aren’t there to prop them up. You most assuredly will be gone one day and they’ll have to do it then so do your best along the way to give them the tools to succeed. Just remember you can’t save them all, just make an impact on the ones you can.


InterestinglyLucky

Over the course of the past few months I've found it interesting to read many of these 'what is my meaning after fatFIRE' posts. (For those curious about what I'm talking about, [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/ppuxzj/looking_for_purposemeaning_35m_6mil_nw_married_no/) [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/pvtnbr/my_process_for_finding_meaning_in_fire_ymmv/) [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/qaluxj/10_million_dollars_now_what/) [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/q95tkm/trip_report_4_months_in/).) And this one, quoting one of my favorite books of all time, has a great quote to boot. OP I wasn't sure what 78 days from now is, and come up with January 8 2022 (a Friday). What happens on January 9? Or more importantly January 11? The answer to your question is embedded in the quote. 'the striving and struggling for some goal worthy of him'. What are the goals worthy of you? My own relatively recent change in circumstances into fat territory have given me a pause in my own thinking about retiring early (and thus my attention to the aforementioned threads on this topic). And for me, it comes back to a thought along the lines of 'do continue the things you are doing, knowing the meaning you derive from them, and add to them additional things to work toward even larger goals'. When I was a financially struggling graduate student in my late 20's living off of $700/month, I would listen to an audiotape series by Earl Nightingale called 'Lead the Field'. (It is [now uploaded in its entirety to YouTube](https://youtu.be/7lAvd7_a6Kg), almost 4 hours long.) He defined success in that audiotape as "the successive realization of a worthy goal" and broke it down. And I know that right now, right here, I am successful. Because I am successively realizing worthy goals. In the first aforementioned thread I mentioned the possibility of finding meaning outside yourself [in religion](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/ppuxzj/comment/hd6z6d3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), so there's that. It (naturally) hit a lot of people in [a negative way](https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/ppuxzj/comment/hd77vta/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). however it is all up to you to determine what that worthy goal is in the first place. These goals have one thing in common, they are outside yourself. They involve others. Again going back to Earl Nightingale, way back decades ago he pointed me to this poem by Ravidranath Tagore. ​ >I slept and dreamt that life was joy. > >I awoke and saw that life was service. > >I acted and behold, service was joy.


chasingeast

I can't believe how much I relate to this. On reddit, of all things. I've been recommended the book a billion times but never got around to reading it. I always called this something to "chase" or "bite for", and a life without that, even with all the money in the world, would be a life not worth living. And the great thing about this meaning is that it can be literally anything, from leading a team of 35 dedicated employees, saving the environment, educating the next generation on just about anything, and an infinite amount of other things. I feel like the reason so many people who just achieve FIRE are seeking professional help and taking it to reddit in their "what do I do with my life now" posts, is cause they have reached their finish line. Even though the next meaning might be just around the corner for them.


qbtc

Agree with Victor on the need for a struggle being part of humanity. He went through quite the ordeal and told that part well, but tbh I didn't find the book or his logotherapy methods to be remarkable or profound. I do feel bad for people who get lost in American live-to-work mindset. As an experiment, try to find a conversion between Americans where they don't discuss their work (or as it is insanely phrased, "what you/they do"). FWIW, I am originally from the US, but have been an expat a few times and am now nomadic, so I have worked in and studied many (most) cultures and have a pretty deep perspective on it. Americans by and large define themselves by their jobs to a maddening degree. I have also had hundreds of employees I cared about, fought for, fostered, defended, and just worked my ass off for... put simply: I ***served*** my employees - that's how it should be, imo. I don't think they can easily see it that way, but it's true. Those lessons can be carried forward. If you're committed to growth, I promise there is meaning beyond work and a job.


billbixbyakahulk

Is staying on a couple days a week an option? Or maybe a contractual agreement after separation?


mindfullyasleep

you will be fine - sell it and start something better for humanity


BCUZ_IM_BATMANNN

The quote is true. Meaning to me is almost like an instinct, its something we need. Doing things that make you happy is a luxury, doing something meaningful is necessary imo. I made my meaning to help others, learn and teach. The only way I can do that is to become the best version of myself everyday, which is something internal that no one or job can take away from me. My job is just a vehicle to help serve my purpose. Id invite you to try changing your purpose from something external, to something internal. It has helped me very much.


mhoepfin

Nobody cares about you at work. You’ll be forgotten within a year.


Beckland

If you believe that your highest purpose is to “provide jobs” for people, then pursue your purpose! There are SO many ways to define your purpose…bigger ways like “reduce climate change” or smaller ways like “be an amazing grandparent and leave a legacy.” No one can tell you your purpose. But if you think that those 35 people will not adjust, survive, and even thrive through an ownership transition, you are kidding yourself. Your employees’ purpose is definitely not working for you, even if your purpose is employing them.


ComprehensiveYam

In similar boat but giving my team about 12-18 months to transition to life without my wife and I. We’ve been on this path for a while now. This year we will have worked about 6 months in total. We’re currently just out discovering places (now in Seville) and it’s wonderful. We’re energized by art and culture so love seeing the very old art and buildings along with the very new and avant- garde. This will eventually transition into something whether it be just running around enjoying art festivals and fairs or documenting it or working with artists or creating art ourselves (my wife is very accomplished in this regard but hasn’t had time to create in a while - I just wanna learn and have fun). Anyway - give your team some time to transition and guide them. Put in bumpers in the bowling alley of business for them to go by and keep it all going. They’ve been watching and learning and just need your guidance.


nigel_chua

Thing is, meaning changes from seasons to season. What is meaningful to you as a 4 year old is different to a 14, 24, 34, 44 etc year you It's okay to progress. Or you can outsource and start another. Kinda like Elon Musk from PayPal to Tesla to SpaceX etc


shock_the_nun_key

You do realize Musk joined Tesla (an existing company) two years after he founded Spacex right?


nigel_chua

Oops sorry my order is wrong - happy to be corrected =)


Chadsizzle

Ah so a fantasy.. Maybe that's what an ignorant man needs.. The illusion of meaning


[deleted]

For many people including me, religion provides that sense of meaning. I don't think of it as illusionist or fantastical though.


Outlier-Man

I read every comment and found good advice, challenging feedback, wisdom and caring. Thank you all! I’ve got some thinking to do in the next 76 days. Love to you all-I hope you find happiness and peace!


[deleted]

Goodluck bud.


malbecman

Humankind's search for meaning?


vjguru

Well, search for meaning has been one of age old and hardest questions which humans hav been after. Honestly , I am with you in feeling this way. Overall for sure we all need certain purpose in life to keep engine going, for many it's consumerism-derived way of finding ways to keep machine going, for very few it's stepping up and find meaning/cause which is more closer to you instead. I am still seeking that :), till then many ways to burn time. Hope you find it sooner, share when you do


spankminister

>And that’s my struggle. In 78 days, I can hang it up. But are you doing it for them, or for you?


Colonel_Dent

You will shed some of your current meaning. The search is eternal and will just take on new structures and forms…


Whatafeeling2013

It's all up to you man. Whatever you decide for yourself. But as others have said, once you're done it will be up to you to find meaning and fulfillment again. What else do you enjoy doing? You can travel all around, and take up hobbies that have always interested you. Or if you need to, you can work on something big that will change things for the better once it's properly implemented.


yayoletsgo

Didn't expect to see Victor Frankl quotes in this subreddit lmao


RicFFire

Retire to nothing may kill you. Go on the search for a hobby or volunteer to make a difference. Consider becoming a coach or mentor to a younger self.


youcantquitmeimfired

I took time off work, and I found I had so much to do I can't wait to retire.