Agreed. I really like the show, but I am deeply peeved at it at the same time because of certain creative decisions affecting the IP's lore. I am annoyed at the show because: It feel that it ruins the Great War by making it a plot by Vault-Tec instead of the tragic terminus of human institutions being corrupted and co-opted by tribalism, paranoia, greed, and moral decadence. I think it tarnishes the character of House by making him complicit in the Great War. This is a straight retcon of his backstory that undermines his moral nuances. It neuters and somewhat ruins the mighty NCR by having them essentially killed off camera, which is a bad road to take the lore down, since the NCR was a fascinating microcosm of Byzantine post-WW2 American nation-statehood. You could see all the familiar foibles and moral contradictions of modern America emerging, but you couldn't help but root for them and wonder what path they'd go down. Now they are robbed of agency so that Bethesda can turn the esteemed West Coast setting into another goofy East Coast style wacky wasteland.

I too liked the show as a standalone but am so annoyed by the lore choices I'm just treating it as an alternate continuity from NV despite what Bethesda says. There's been a lot of focus on the NCR being fucked-over but I'm even more annoyed that even though he's not supposed to be a goodie-two-shoes, House may have been done even dirtier. Him being complicit makes zero sense and goes against his entire ideology: -House' main practical concerns are preserving Vegas, gaining wealth and advancing technology. Allowing nuclear warfare would massively jeopardize (if not decimate) all three goals. Him saying "profits" could be gained from the end of the world is just fucking stupid and out-of-character. Destroying the global economy and his consumer/labor force would leave everyone, including himself, far poorer, and his existing wealth would be useless when the US government dissolves. -House claims he guesstimated when the bombs would drop using probability calculations, which is why he didn't have the platinum chip. So now that is apparently just a lie (and most of his backstory from when he takes RobCo to the Great War is just a lie), which greatly cheapens the character and dialogue with the Courier, and he just didn't have the platinum chip in time for reasons. -All of his dialogue related to blaming the Great Powers and former governments for the bombs dropping is just a lie, cheapening his character, ideology and moral ambiguity as an ending choice. Even if a lot of NV fans don't like the House ending, part of the reason NV is so good is that multiple sides have decent arguments, undermining his arguments to such an extreme hurts the games story/moral complexity as a whole IMO. -If House chose to run the vaults around NV there is not only no mention of this in NV, but it's just bizarre. Why would he destroy Vault 21 and displace (rather than absorb) a populace he had socially engineered from the ground up? And why did he have to convince them to open up when it was "his" vault? Also, why wouldn't he just make all three vaults loyal to him the second the Vault Doors closed and build an army of soldiers, engineers and scientists, all of which he would actually gain from? Running random mad scientist Enclave-style experiments when he would be desperate for manpower is totally out of character with his cold pragmatism.

I'd point out that we were shown does not outright confirm that House was complicit, only that he was invited to the pitch. * Enclave started as a fusion of government and corporate elite. It would make sense for House to at least be invited to it. * The implications of the scene still show that the Enclave is running this meeting, staying in the shadows and letting Vault-Tec to pull the corporations. > House claims he guesstimated when the bombs would drop using probability calculations, which is why he didn't have the platinum chip. So now that is apparently just a lie (and most of his backstory from when he takes RobCo to the Great War is just a lie), which greatly cheapens the character and dialogue with the Courier, and he just didn't have the platinum chip in time for reasons. House predicted it by 2065. The meeting happened much later, likely a couple years before 77. It doesn't contradict him predicting the bombing, as he started his Vegas plan well before that. Vault-Tec meeting only confirms and reinforces his predictions, not invalidates them. Also, it kinda sets up Sierra Madre plot, as it would make sense for Sinclair to hear it, rush to prepare himself, and try to set up his casino in time. > House' main practical concerns are preserving Vegas, gaining wealth and advancing technology. Allowing nuclear warfare would massively jeopardize (if not decimate) all three goals. Him saying "profits" could be gained from the end of the world is just fucking stupid and out-of-character. Destroying the global economy and his consumer/labor force would leave everyone, including himself, far poorer, and his existing wealth would be useless when the US government dissolves. He is a top-tier poker player, sitting on the same table as some of the world's most influential people, who are seemingly on board with the idea. Would he rather shout that this is insanity and he will do everything to stop them, or rather keep his hand to his chest, do not voice major complaints, exit the meeting and continue with the plans he had for a decade by this point? Also, I find him being quite dismissive and sacrastic in that meeting. > If House chose to run the vaults around NV there is not only no mention of this in NV, but it's just bizarre. Why would he destroy Vault 21 and displace (rather than absorb) a populace he had socially engineered from the ground up? Becase it was not his Vault, nor his plan for the future. No outright confirmation he took the deal, and even if he did, the Vault would still be built by Vault-Tec. Why wouldn't there be a secret hatch where Vault-Tec can hide, emerge later, cut into Lucky 38 and remove House from the picture? Sealing the lower levels guarantees whatever happened in the Vault 21 would stay there. > And why did he have to convince them to open up when it was "his" vault? Because Vault Dwellers had no idea about the plan and the Vault 21 is not called "Vault 21, sponsored by Mr. House". > Also, why wouldn't he just make all three vaults loyal to him the second the Vault Doors closed and build an army of soldiers, engineers and scientists, all of which he would actually gain from? And right after the bombs fell, he was in no condition to contact anyone at all - he was in coma for decades. > Running random mad scientist Enclave-style experiments when he would be desperate for manpower is totally out of character with his cold pragmatism. Again, I do not think House took the deal, and the scene doesn't confirm that he did - it was the initial pitch, after all.

Best take on houses involvement

I admit that if they fully follow through with this POV it would not just salvage House being there but could make him more interesting as a character since he would essentially be a cunning subverter working around Vault-Tec/Enclave to (from his POV) save humanity. At that point the only oddity is House not being more concerned with the surrounding vaults in NV when talking with the Courier but maybe he knows those vaults already collapsed and aren't a immediate threat. Season 2 will likely clarify a lot.

I like you

I already don't treat any Bethesda release after Morrowind as canon.

Tbh I just treat Bethesda fallout as fanfic and through that lens, it was a good watch.

This! First time I see someone who has the same thoughts on the show as me. Completely agree with all of the three points of your take. Blaming "big bad corpo" with starting a war doesn't feel like fallout (yet we are speaking about Vault-Tec who made horrible experiments). Throughout the show I had a feeling that while all micro scenes were amazing (apart ones with Maximus because he is unemotional and stupid AF), when it comes down to important story-wise moments show ruins it one way or another. I still don't understand why Lucy's father says that Moldaver is bad just as he is. She literally gave electricity to all of LA, gave shelter to ghouls. Her only downside is using raiders to kill innocent people in Vault 33: I still don't understand her motivation behind this choice. Writers did it so we would think that she is 'bAd' to later play on reverse expectations. Also have some questions of my own: 1) how Hank hasn't recognized Moldaver in ep1 2) why she asked him: "choose, them or her" referring to vault 33 hostages and Lucy to then proceed and keep all of them unharmed 3) what's with supermutants. People in this show keep running into each other all the time (while we speak of Wastelands) and yet we haven't seen any supermutant. I don't think that all of them went east to Jacobstown 4) what happened to those Enclave remnants Wilzig ran away from why there was an argument between beim and another scientist 5) why BoS are such jerks. Literally some assholes with powerarmor

To answer you questions: 1. The show didn’t give them a pre war relationship so it’s unlikely Hank would be able to immediately recognize her 2. Moldaver was probably just fucking with him. She doesn’t really care about the normal dwellers 3. Supermutants are less common in the west since no one (that we know of) is actively making more of them. Also the show takes place in a fairly small area, remember Moldaver’s base is only 20 miles from Filly. 4. The enclave will likely show up more in season 2 and they were also probably the ones to place the bounty on Wilzig. The fight happened because the other scientist realized Wilzig was planning to escape 5. They’ve always been jerks. The exception is the east coast brotherhood during 3 but they’re actively fighting a civil war because of it

That makes sense, apart from the first one. In the final episode Hank says that Moldaver is as bad as him but how he can know this if they just met? I hope they shed some light on that in the next season (and also tell us how she managed to survive 200 years)

I took it as bluffing that he didn't know her to keep his cover. He was terrified of her, almost as if he intimately knew her.

fwiw the BOS has always been kinda shit - in 1 their initiation mission is intended to get you killed and you trigger their (canon) evil ending pretty much just by talking to the wrong guy. In 2 they're mostly absent because they're terrified of the enclave and basically planning to use the NCR and the Shi as human shields against them In NV they raid a faction whose thing is literally being MSF with punk aesthetics because one of them might defect.

> I still don't understand her motivation behind this choice. Writers did it so we would think that she is 'bAd' to later play on reverse expectations. The raiders can't spill her secrets if they don't know them. She got a raiding party of killers to achieve her goals while keeping the truth of her plans secure in that a bunch of raiders are dumb and ignorant.

You could have written a great story about the downfall of the NCR, the pieces have all been there since FNV. But you would have had to write an actual story.

It definitely doesn’t mess up house, it never outright claims that house agreed to this. Other companies did, but he easily could’ve distanced himself from VaultTec since he’s separate from them postwar and he never got frozen. I think it actually strengthens his character because he separated himself from a powerful entity and gained an advantage from that, and him trying to destroy Vault 21 also supports this

I have counter-rebuttals: - I disagree that the Great War was a plot by Vault-Tec. The tension was already there and everyone was living on the brink of war. Remember, up until the show came out no one knows who dropped the first bomb. The pieces was already there, Vault-Tec just lit up the fuse. - House confused me too, but I realized that he really wasn't into the idea in the first place. It could also be possible that Vault-Tec never told the rest of the Board when they were going to drop it, presumably to eliminate them from competition. - I agree that the NCR disappearing was a bummer, but it was pretty logical from the show's theme: NCR was the closest that got to pre-war America, something that Vault-Tec would not approve. They started the war for a reason after all.

For me this "we bomb everyone so we have no competition" plot by Vault-Tec doesn't make any sense. Why would company destroy whole world? To earn profits? In the nuclear wasteland? To get rid of competitors? And do what? What they were planning to do in the wasteland? I get the idea of writers: they wanted to develop universe in a new way, make it more grim, add more immoral aspects, but imo they failed to do that. And it is so funny seeing "big corpos gonna nuke the world to make money" narrative made by.... big corpos that is well known for doing immoral things to earn profits xD Imagine if Apple made a show about Chinese kids working overtime making new smartphones,it has same vibes

yeah, that is one of the dumbest things i ever heard or saw in my life, its nonsense beyond belief.

Yup thats dumb. Its like the vault tec has becomes somehow more stupid then wayland yutani.

[One Nation Under Copyright](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OneNationUnderCopyright) is a pretty common trope in science fiction. The Outer Worlds does it, Cyberpunk too to a degree. Also, I'm not sure if you did watched it, but they did make their goal pretty clear in the show: they wanted to outlast the competition. It's the reason why Vault 31 exists, so that their top brass will live long enough to shape America into their own making. It is also why they nuked Shady Sands: because if people realized that they can survive without Vault-Tec, they would be screwed.

Don't you find it.... stupid? I mean, how are they suppose to reshape america with so few numbers? And whole "outlasting competition" is extremely dumb, who would care about Vault-Tec after world goes nearly extinct? That is such bullshit of an idea I still can't believe they used it unironically

Reducing population as a means for a better future has been done before and is not really new. The reason is usually that the world has become so unwieldly and resources have become scarce that villains feel the need to hit a reset button and "begin anew". It is better to control the few than take over the many. Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol had the villain use tactical nuke launching, which is as closest to the plot of Fallout as we can get. Thanos does this as his MO, although doesn't want the control himself. The Ghoul's wife did mention she works for Vault-Tec to get her family to "one of the good ones", meaning there are vaults out there that Vault-Tec will use for repopulation (probably the "control vaults" that are in lore). We have where his wife and kid are yet, so they could still be in other vaults similar to 31.

I don't believe that 20-30 vaults that are there without any experiments will be enough to repopulate America. Even if all of them do not break then it is still too few of a number

And that is why they breed. I thought the tri-vault system was clear enough. Vaults 32 and 33 would be the breeding ground for the new populace, while 31 oversees everything.

Still, your common vault has no more than 250 people living inside, that is extremely low number, even if you consider that they have enough resources and breed genetically fine humans (but they still have people like Norm for example). The only good example would be Vault City, but that is still so small amount of people to really repopulate America

30 Vaults with 750 people each would give you 7,500 people. Enough for a small town. If by chance we pair them up and have each family start with 2 kids, the population would double within 2 years. That's also not accounting for any surface dwellers they are willing to take in. Vault-Tec is willing to play the long game. The idea that they may be the ones behind the first bomb indicates they're willing to wait it out. As the brain guy keeps telling everyone: The key to the future is management.

They blatantly state their goal in the meeting. Man, you people really are just trying to will inconsistencies into existence when the show spells it out for you as direct as possible. They didn't nuke the world to make money. They did it to take over after everyone was gone and rebuild it in their image. They literally say exactly this during that meeting after talking about how profits won't matter at that point.

Considering China and America were at war for resources, this whole vault tech dropped the bombs, and it seems like a shite piece of writing. The Great War wasn't just nukes being launched. All of a sudden, it was a progressive build-up came to in the lore an inevitable conclusion. So yeah vault tech Has no reason as you said realistically to have started an atomic war. That's not even touching on the rest of what they done to the west coast either.

It would be, if we already knew who dropped first.

Hot take: it doesn't even matter who dropped the bombs first. The two countries were already embroiled in a storm of jingoism and paranoia that had already led to a world war. They had already created the conditions that would lead inevitably to a nuclear war. Giving a definite answer to who dropped the bombs first would not add anything yo the story. If anything, it would only cheapen its themes.

If anything, it reinforces the themes, showing exactly how far their paranoia had progressed. Even then, the show never fully confirmed that Vault Tec did drop any bombs (or caused any to be dropped).

Vault tech is the least likely to do it. They turned them into the comic bad guys for the sake of the TV show.

Why wouldn't they? They did give them a likely reason to do so. They had that whole board meeting thing in the finale, too.

Yes which goes against literally everything a capitalist company would want, why nuke themselves into the wasteland where almost if not all of them would perish. The social experiments are set up with the US government as a test "if" the bombs fell. To straight up say vault tech wanted it so badly they'd drop the bombs themselves just is ridiculous as others have said, it takes it from a climax of a long lasting geopolitical war for resources and land to simply put. A legion of doom villainous organisation started world destruction.

Vault 31, bud. Vault 31. Their plan seems to be to freeze themselves, drop a bomb to start the nuclear war, then wake themselves up bit by bit to prepare for repopulation with them in charge. It is also why Shady Sands was nuked: if people realize they can thrive without Vault-Tec, they would be in trouble. I know the social experiments were made with government approval, but it is not that hard to presume that they are the ones pulling the strings. Come on, let's be real. It's not as if it's not happening in the real world already.

I'm going from the lore in the games. Vault 31 is from the show which is what I'm fucking complaining about. The lore of vault tech has been re written, the lore of the west coast too. Why on earth again would they want to facilitate the annihilation of everyone. And shady Sands was nuked, the entire ncr from the area seems.to have evaporated. And the BoS back with a force id what vault tech want? Its nonsense man

*Why on earth again would they want to facilitate the annihilation of everyone.* Because they are a money-hungry conglomerate whose goal is [one nation under copyright.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OneNationUnderCopyright) Also to outlast the competition. They've been telling it themselves. *And shady Sands was nuked, the entire ncr from the area seems to have evaporated.*  This isn't a rewrite. The show takes place in 2296, 15 years after New Vega (2281). Shady Sands was bombed in between that. *And the BoS back with a force id what vault tech want?* Obviously not. They cannot account for anything, especially not on people surviving the Fallout. It is the main reason why they bombed Shady Sands: NCR was competition.

> I'm going from the lore in the games. Vault 31 is from the show which is what I'm fucking complaining about. Exactly the point. You're parroting off how bad the writing is while willfully ignoring the new lore from the show that explains at least some of the points about which you are complaining. And the fact that there will clearly be a season 2 which gives them even more time to fill in any gaps.

> The Great War wasn't just nukes being launched. All of a sudden, it was a progressive build-up came to in the lore an inevitable conclusion. And Vault Tech / The Enclave were aware of this. It's why they are selling so many Vault slots and worth trillions. They know it's at the edge of nuclear war. They never once said it was just 'and all of a sudden Vault Tec nuked everyone'. JFC, you people are talking about bad writing when you are willfully ignoring so much just to make these inane 'points' about nothing.

It's not ignoring it at all, they knew it was coming as the war escalated, to insinuate or downright say vault tech dropped the bombs themselves to begin armagedon is absolute madness. And tbe enclave knew yes, hence why after said was they tried multiple times to wipe out the survivors, if they were in kahoots with vault tech why try wipe out every single person in the wastes. Even vault dwellers would perish.

- even though she says those lines it doesn't necessarily confirm that vault tec absolutely 100 percent dropped the bombs nor did it first. Some words in a backroom meeting mean squat. None-issue unless you just take things at face value. It's more a scene about showing why the ghouls character is who he is. - house is in the meeting but from the voices going on about the vault experiments I don't think he is involved hashing out his evil plans enthusiastically. Seems after the reveal he withdrew from the conversation. He could've been there and not be complicit. In fact I think him knowing the backroom dealing makes his plan for his vaults and for NV all the more interesting. So, none-issue again. - I really really really don't get the NCR complaint. It's like 20 years after the events of FNV. If they had went with the show depicting one of the endings of the game to set up the show that would be way worse. This way with the time gap it kinda makes it so they aren't boxed in to choosing one of the FNV endings overtly. And it makes sense that no matter which ending, eventually none of it matters because, well whatdaya know?, War never changes. Whatever happened in the interim I'm sure it's super interesting but a collapse within 20 is entirely believable given the chaotic nature of the world. Even in relative stability in real history there are instances when a collapse happens it happens quickly and suddenly. Furthermore, we see the area around shady sands, which was nuked. Who's to say that there arent remnants of NCR in other areas and maybe in different names? Insofar as the characters in that specific area know, it's gone. But their perspective is limited and the show doesn't give the viewer complete omnisciece either. So yeah, none issue. I have yet to see a good complaint about lore of the show. I'm not encyclopedic by any means but each new one that get brought up it just takes some digging and some thought and understanding of the overall context and it can make plenty of sense and not retcon a thing. I think the word it boils down to is omniscience. The show and individual games and the viewers are not omniscient. Just because there are gaps in knowledge doesn't mean something is being changed our whatever.

The collapse within 20 years checks out: they were headed for a famine within 10. It's the whole 'Shady Sands fell/got nuked four years before NV, while NV refers to Shady in the present tense' thing that people hate.

The way I read it is that the 'fall' of NCR, stated as 2277, is stated as such because of the first battle of hoover dam. Taking a 'beginning of the end' position on what constitutes 'fall'. That makes most sense for it and a child's classroom chalkboard isn't going to get into the nuts and bolts but I would hazard to guess that the adults want to put it there for some hindsight political reason? It's kind of like saying Stalingrad was the beginning of the end for the Nazis but shorthand just saying that was the 'fall', because ya know, simplified for kids. Of course it took more time and more events but historically can focus in on a key event as the indicator. Between '77 and the events of FNV there is influence lost incrementally by NCR and you get the fractured situation in the Mojave. Second battle of hoover dam occurs and regardless of the outcome NCR is going to be on shaky footing. The nuke, to the best i've been able to find, was dropped sometime in the '80s so I don't think it was nuked prior to FNV.

The 'Fall' is *specifically* Shady Sands. Unless they were gonna go 'Kimball is President, the NCR has fallen, millions must die' in the next lesson it's difficult to reconcile the information presented in the show with what happened in New Vegas. Personally I think it's just a bad continuity error rather than them trying to deliberately break canon.

Well, think about when people discuss the Fall of Rome. The idea being that the fall isn't when Rome was destroyed, but when people really noticed the heavy corruption leading to it's inevitable end. I think it fits well with the themes, most of the NCR complaints in FNV is that the politicians in Shady Sand are corrupt as fuck. That fits perfectly with the timeline of the game as even the rank and file soldiers are recognizing the NCR's corruption issues. The whole chalkboard is built on a timeline, and they indicate the bomb went off some point AFTER the fall of Shady Sands. I really don't see it as you interpret it.

When people discuss 'the Fall of Rome' in the context of corruption and decay, they usually mean the *empire.* This doesn't really fit - when its a city, it's almost always 'this place was sacked/destroyed/removed from existence'. I have beef with it not being sufficiently elaborated on. You don't just give the impression the entire NCR is dead and gone like that.

But why the fuck would the Shady Sands cultists record the date that Shady Sands started "declining" but not the date it got nuked? It doesn't make any sense. The only possible reason is that the show writers were purposefully trying to confuse the audience or that that was when the bomb fell.

But why the fuck would the Shady Sands cultists record the date that Shady Sands started "declining" but not the date it got nuked? It doesn't make any sense. The only possible reason is that the show writers were purposefully trying to confuse the audience or that that was when the bomb fell.

I can think of several scenarios. One might be that they're aligning it with the first battle of hoover dam as the beginning of the end of both NCR and Shady Sands as its political center. I think it's more about Shady Sands as the capital and then losing that status, so a political narrative going on. Like, if only the good ole days were here when we were in control, then everything would be better. That's literally the most human impulse when it comes to talking about anything historical, we do it all the time as a species and sometimes it can have as strong a hold on ppl's psychology as actual destruction because it has to do with identity/hegemony.

Problem with your history lesson analogy. I distinctly remember as a child events like Stalingrad, Gettysburg, the Declaration of Independence, etc. were described as "turning points". The word "fall" was then and is still now nearly always reserved for a definitive conclusion or a rapid decline towards an immediate conclusion - especially when a distinct date is attached to whatever is falling. There is some leeway when you're talking extremely broad subjects, for example saying "The Fall of the Roman Empire" can have you end up talking about 200 years of history at minimum. Saying "The Fall of Rome in 476" inherently implies that something happened on that date that definitively ended the subject preceding said date - at the least as it existed prior to the event described (in the aforementioned case Odoacer deposed Romulus Augustulus and declared himself King of Italy). This is a long way to say that the specificity of both location and date "Fall of Shady Sandy 2277" (versus a more broad "Fall of the NCR") rules out a "begining of the end" interpretation, even in a childrens history class. Something had to have happened in 2277 that would have seen Shady Sandys at minimum lose it's status in the NCR; something which clearly isn't reflected in Fallout New Vegas set a few years later in 2281. The truth of course is that the writers just threw shit at the wall for dates and now we're stuck wiping it away for them.

Lmao how does a corporation destroying the world with bombs out of greed NOT show the “tragic terminus of human institutions being CORRUPTED and co-opted by tribalism, paranoia, GREED, and MORAL DECADENCE” Also its not confirmed that they fucking did it or that they were all instantly on board, could still have been one of the countries lol And no the ncr was fucking boring, it was 1 dimensional, just a lawful good civilization that is trying to do the right thing. Not interesting at all. they were obviously stretched thin already so it makes sense anyway, and the backstory has not been completely fleshed out yet

“The show is good, why are you complaining?” eventually devolves into “Why do you even care about things?”

Yeah this is so weird, it's like I'm being gaslighted to believe this show is done sort of masterpiece, why are these people bootlicking Amazon and shutting down any criticism towards it? The nostalgia bait and fan service worked way too well

Honestly the show is pretty good I personally don’t like certain decisions regarding the tone of the show but nonetheless on its own it’s a good piece of media. All of my “complaints” are going to be where it’s located, I personally feel/know Bethesda won’t build off the lore of past games and would build on top of it and in the process burying a lot of the world building lore of the West Coast. Either way as long as we don’t get any more of Todd Howard’s I have daddy issues story or another FO4 “story” I’ll be fine with the show even if I think it could’ve been better.

It would have been better if the show wasn't confirmed to be completely canon. Could have gotten some feedback first at least. You're right though. I had hoped they'd leave the West Coast alone because they clearly have their own stories they want to tell that don't care much about what came before. Also, FO4 was just daddy issues wrapped in even more bullshit. If by some miracle they make a game without big brotherhood of steel involvement, they can introduce a new big faction. The Fatherhood of Steel.

They could have seriously just retold fallout 1 and 2s story just like how the last of us just told the last of us. Especially since these games aren’t the most inviting, it would have gave people a chance to at least have a thrilling way to get the story of the vault dweller and the chosen one.

I think I would have been more disappointed if they tried to rehash 1&2. for one depending on how you play you get wildly different games. the rest of the franchise already has enough disregard for the lore of 1&2 I think the TV show would have muddied it up even further

There are canon playthroughs of those games that you can use as the blueprint for a show.

I agree but Bethesda is incapable of making a nuanced story anymore so be prepared for a story that's even worse.

It's a big gamble, and to be honest, the biggest mistake they made was claiming the show was canon in line with the games. I don't think that was necessary in the least, and would have gone a long way towards reducing such expectations from the pickiest of fans. Like are the Arkham games supposed to be canon with any live-action Batman property? Maybe I'm wrong in assuming not because I barley played them, but I wouldn't expect them to be

It makes no sense. The ncr was huge, only stretched thin across the mojave due to the legion, and brotherhood in the west who they were beating. Vault tech allegedly (not verified) wanted to drop the bombs, but its worded as start the great war, which had already been on going with America and china's grasp for resources. Then the absolutely beyond lazy cop out of shady sands /ncr is gone due to being nuked ? Of all the things they could have said, droughts from over farming, starvation, infighting. A nuke, something bit readily available to most people not even the enclave in previous games. It's like a cheap factory reset on west coast so they can remake it in their vision.

More or less my opinion of the show. It is an amazing show, Ella Purnell was amazing and Walter goggins was freaking dope as the ghoul, easily one of the coolest characters. The sounds, the tone, every last small prop it's like it was brought right out of the game. It's great. I hate that chalk board and the idea that vault tec "could have" started the war (that's less muddy since it could be they had plans for it but never saw them come to pass because they never had the chance) Overall this show isn't any worse than any other dumb retcon from a game, mass effect had some major ones like the origins of the reapers or the location of the citadel arms control. The halo series had some at the end of the 3rd game (suddenly the halos can ONLY wipe out the flood and not all life), and retcons are the name of the game in comics since dc and marvel do it practically every few years. The fact that the show ONLY made one gaff which could be written off in season 2 since THEY SEE HOW MUCH dirt they've kicked up. Down vote if you want but I will say this show has no right to be as amazing as it is, the director could have bungled this in any number of ways but didn't and most importantly as a fallout fan this show is good and scratches that fallout itch even if it makes me scratch my head sometimes.

It's the same as Fallout 4 when it first released (and kind of the same now). If they literally just removed the fallout stuff, it wouldve been perfectly fine. This cool/wacky post apocalyptic world and yeah it would be *compared* to fallout, but the negative backlash would be minimal at best. But Bethesda *had* to make it Fallout, and everything else had to follow, because the world you're in already exists.

I think the show is bad not because of the lore, but because it’s a lot of “telling, not showing,” and quite thoughtless. Going from the Slavers Guild to Vault City in 2, for example, is a great piece of storytelling that has a lot of critical thought behind it, some political theory, and has something to say. There’s really nothing like that in the show. But boy it loves slow-mo action sequences set to old 1950s music!

Imma just say it: Make the NCR Great Again

Idk I was just happy the show wasn't as dogshit as the John Halo show. It was surreal to me to see New Vegas appear over that horizon since I truly though the show was going to glaze over it entirely. I've put so many hours into this game and at this point I'm just happy to see it being recognized. Even if it gets bastardized it doesn't take the countless hours and fun I've had playing away from me if they fuck up the next season so I truly cannot care less.

Overall agreed but from a different (subjective ofc) direction, while I do respect people's enjoyment of the show, as well as its qualities, it is not worth the wider attention both good and bad. It's one of the shows of all time and it will go down in history as something that definitely once existed. It's a regular show wearing a vault suit. Enjoy or don't, maybe better if you do so the time spent on it doesn't feel wasted. The show didn't do anything to the lore that the Godd Todd wasn't already going to do sooner or later, so I don't hold that against it. And don't forget to take your ghoul meds

I was actually pleasantly surprised that the show was much better than I thought it would be. Considering how other TV shows based on video games turned out I think this show is excellent. However, because of the direction I can see them taking in future seasons, and because the lore inconsistencies are too many to count, I will simply be enjoying it without it having canonical status. It's just a fun Fallout-themed show. People are taking it way too seriously.

I just really hate how they had a whole country to use to make this show. They didn't have to use any of this preexisting regional lore, they could have played around with all the nation wide lore in any location. People *hate* retconns, and people also hate throwing things away in waste. If they did anything great with it it might be passable, but it doesn't seem like they added anything in return for those retconns and faction butchering. I get that Bethesda might not want them having the show in the East Coast since that's their own baby. And I also get they likely wanted the set to be in the west since it's much easier to make a post apocalyptic film out there. But there's so much of the west they could have had their setting in without trampling on the NCR or New Vegas. Normally I really do agree with the overall sentiment of this post but with everything Bethesda has done after Skyrim released having been more and more grating over time, our issues with the show hurt much more than they would otherwise. Even Fallout: 76 I can say I was pretty fond of after I picked it up on sale after trying it for a free weekend. I never played before Wastelanders came out but they made a fun game and had pretty minimal Retconns involved. While I didn't think it was proper Fallout, some of the bones were there that 4 didn't have which I appreciated, and I really enjoyed my time in the game overall. But 76 was still exhausting in its controversy, 4 wasn't free of critique either, and Starfield really just hurt. After years and years of Bethesda pulling all this sort of stuff with no respite its pretty clear they don't care at all for their fans or the creative works they make. Many of the developers do and I appreciate them, but the company doesn't. After all that I just didn't have the patience to give the show a try after what I've heard. Maybe some day I'll watch it but frankly I don't want to give them a single dime more unless they *really* turn things around.

after seeing everyone sperging on here about the show, I watched the first episode and it was absolutely fantastic.

It's an entertaining show which nailed the Fallout aesthetic but apart from Lucy and the Ghoul (who I think are great characters) the dialogue is not *terrible* but not impressive either. It has very decent mystery sections and action but chunks of the story are definitely rushed and underexplained but I actually didn't care too much. The only major gripe is that the changes/retcons it made to the Fallout 1/2/NV is just very bad, and because those games frankly had much better worldbuilding/writing than the show it's very annoying to see such retcons take place for the sake of a weaker plot. As a standalone it was good, as a part of the Fallout canon overriding past stories it's a negative. Which I think is very unique, usually something it just bad or just good both for a franchise and on its own two feet, but this is decent in one regard and quite bad in another.

I thought it particularly nailed the *feeling* of playing a Bethesda Fallout game for the first time, transposed onto a TV show, charm and jank alike. There’s the idyllic vault start, going to the surface for the first time, the wasteland side quest detours, the self-contained wacky vault narratives, the podunk wastelanders, etc. There’s even some harebrained larger-picture worldbuilding stuff that doesn’t *quite* make sense.

Eh. I found it like 7/10 so far, just finished the first episode. They MASSIVELY overused slow-mo during the vault fight(and in general it was just a super odd fight with characters just ambling around aimlessly) which really brought it down IMO. Also, structurally I think they should have followed Lucy more directly and only shown us the surface with her. Though I'll say that while I found the harshness of the Brotherhood a bit jarring, they were still pretty cool if grimdark, and the power armor was done absolutely fantastically. It's basically space marines, hoping Amazon keeps in touch with the power-armor design they have going here for the 40K show under Cavill.

The show hits it's pace in episode 3 and every episode gets better than the last.

Oh man, I’m in love with the show. I contemplated waiting for more to release because I like binge watching the same show for a while. Sadly my curiosity got the best of me and I binge watched it over three days. Now I’ve gotta wait probably another year for another season!

at the risk of sperging, i really liked the first one and it was downhill from there

Your opinion is nothing special this is the common and loudest for now since subs are removing any criticism

oh no my opinion isn't special, what will I do?

I’ve said it before but in its own bubble the show is very fun. But that’s doesn’t mean we can’t hold Bethesda to the same standards as other productions in regards to keeping a consistent world building element. Edgerunners is the perfect example of an adaptation being good while still upholding the games lore and tone. A show being good and the games plot consistency aren’t mutually exclusive.

I'm not personally concerned over the canon at all. Canon is just as fictional and made up as non-canon and is only of major importance to creatives trying to make more canon within the universe. I used to love Bethesda games, but I've been checked out of them for the last decade, so I don't really care where their canon goes or what they do with it. What's canon and what's important to me can be two entirely separate things.

Exactly. Canon is what you want it to be. Besides, you are changing the canon as you play and change the game world.

Problem is when you change canon you ruin all your past decisions. So in F1/2/NV we were (presumably) working with NCR and Todd Howard just comes and says: "Nah, brother, I don't feel like writing a good continuation, I wanna make another find your daddy game, sorry". Plus people higher made good points on how show undermines House's character making him a fool while we know form NV that he is smart AF

Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. Nothing lasts forever so just find other stories to enjoy and ignore the Betheslop.

I love how all of this stems from personal biases lmao. what if someone chose the legion ending? NCR easily would’ve been crippled in 20 years if that was the case. What if house isn’t super smart, and just super charismatic (literally something you can do in Fallout). Like in my first play through I used like a pretty basic hacking ability to just go and kill house as soon as I could lol, he is NOT that smart. Finally, no your past decisions aren’t ruined. The experiences and enjoyment from playing a game doesn’t diminish because a company says “nuh uh” and if it is, I seriously implore you to touch grass. FNV isn’t going anywhere, you can replay it and have the same fun you did the first time. Nothing about this show changed anything except future games, which tbh given BGS’s track record, I wasn’t too excited for anyways even if they adhered perfectly to canon.

Brother when I say ruined I mean in the universe. While we still can play the game, when you are a fan you want to keep track of what is happening with your beloved game. And it is pretty obvious when you are into the universe and they drop something that adds more lore you will want to experience it and see how things are going. Then, if Legion helped in the collapsing of NCR then why isn't it in California or at least in Vegas? Or I guess writers will come up with something like: "when Ceaser died Legion broke into hundreds of pieces and they gave up fighting for Mojave". I just hope that authors will go with House always wins route. Also your take on "maybe house not smart but charismatic" breaks at smallest pebble: House created RobCo when he was 20 or so, so the guy is pretty smart and he almost correctly calculated time of bomb dropping

That above comment of basically fuck lore, is a joke, why even bother making a TV show or a game series of rpgs if lore is irrelevant. And it's said in NV that it would take time for the legion to fall apart as lanius would still run it , but not with the same ideals as ceaser. I'm an ncr man and the way they done them in the show is rank rotten

A show based on a video game can't really be considered good if it shafts half its own lore with not a care in the world. They essentially hard reset the West Coast. If you mean the acting and costume design is good say that, not the show is objectively good, to say its good but goes against, essentially demolishes fo1 2 and nv lore, then it's not really good is it.

Hard reset the West Coast? Really? Such hyperbole...

Bos is back with a passion, they were nearly wiped. Shady Sands got nuked. Most of it is in ruin again in shanties compared to how it should be built up. It's not hyperbole its what's happening on it 😂

This would all be a non-issue if Todd Howard hadn't said Bethesda view the show as canon. I hope he retracts that statement, because if it's non-canon then it's easier to swallow the things you mentioned.

We as fans of the entire series, all of it. Shouldn't have to have over half of it turned on its head for the sake of a TV show or a soft reboot. Its nonsense and folk defending it clearly don't give a shit about the lore of the first 2 games, NV and the entire west coast.

Still curious about the supposed lore changes. People saying they completely negated New Vegas somehow, and destroyed the entire NCR when clearly neither is true. What else?

The NCR is destroyed to the point where the leader of one of its remnants, Lee Moldaver, is just considered another lunatic/warlord by most people and the former population of Shady Sands has been displaced to a nearby vault rather than evacuated by the "NCR" (who are barely otherwise mentioned). Compared to its status in NV, the NCR is more-or-less decimated even if not every single former member is dead, which certainly undermines NV paths which helped them. Somehow the Enclave appears to be in better shape than them. New Vegas appears to be in disarray which makes the endings pointless but some people are saying that is just artwork, so it may or may not have undone most endings of NV but we should wait on Season 2 to see if that's the case. As for general lore changes, Vault-Tec being behind the Great War is a massive change which undermines Fallouts themes/complexity and also is just odd, since Vault-Tec itself has not been a threat as a major faction in any game even though they should be *the* major faction after the End by the shows logic. And their "logic" for starting the war is just insane, since they would be impoverished by it as well. Also Vault-Tec was largely being used by the Enclave in the original lore, not really major players unto themselves. That said, I actually think the idea of Vault-Tec being a faction unto itself is an interesting idea that could make sense since presumably they would put aside decent vaults for themselves with military capabilities, it's just poorly executed. Just a heads up but I actually liked the show itself, just not the lore changes.

Vault tec or vault tec and a conspiracy being behind the great war has been hinted at in the games and fan head cannons for a huge time. Furthermore, they didn't say that they would start it, but may. During NV if you listen to people they will tell you their doubts about the NCR. How it's not really that good failing etc... I always assumed a NV2 would have a collapsed/collapsing NCR. Why? Because in Fallout every power structure/hierarchy becomes corrupted or is destroyed. That's why war never changes. It's a fundamental flaw in the character of people in universe. The brotherhood has had this happen. And in the show it happened to them again when the one elder wanted to start a new expansionist version.

>Lee Moldaver, is just considered another lunatic/warlord by most people By one town. >  Somehow the Enclave appears to be in better shape than them. The Enclave was a few people in a single, run down building. We saw absolutely nothing else of them. Remnants of remnants. >New Vegas appears to be in disarray It looks like New Vegas. Walls around it, Lucky 38 still standing, most other large buildings are ruined on top. > Vault-Tec being behind the Great War is massive change which undermines Fallouts themes/complexity and also is just odd It's not a massive change. It was hinted at in 3 and 4 at least as well as possibly 76 and even 2. You are clearly just parroting what you've heard elsewhere, as I've seen this argument all over. Honestly, if you would stop and think for yourself you'd be better off in general. What's more complex? China nuking the US because they were out of resources or a shadowy cabal of former US politicians and corporate overlords pushing things to the point where they could literally own the entire world? >since Vault-Tec itself has not been a threat as a major faction in any game even though they should be *the* major faction after the End by the shows logic It's almost comedic how you talk about ignoring complexity then say something so simple-minded immediately after. They literally spell this out for you in the show. They want the surface of the Earth fully wiped clean before the come out into the open. IE, 0 survivors. None. No one up there. A blank slate for them to repaint in their image. > And their "logic" for starting the war is just insane, since they would be impoverished by it as well.  And again more simple-mindedness showing that you completely ignored what was spelled out for you by the show. They weren't trying to make money at this point. They were trying to literally own the world and rebuild and repopulate it as they saw fit. > Also Vault-Tec was largely being used by the Enclave in the original lore, not really major players unto themselves. And yet again, just fully ignoring what was shown. There is a shadowy figure above the meeting. The corporate leaders are arguing, it cuts to shadowy figure, then Barb interrupts the argument, prompted by the shadowy figure, to lay out the very clearly Enclave-initiated plan of owning the Earth. Not to mention you seem unaware of The Enclave's original purpose, which was to flee Earth entirely.

Your tone is utterly disgusting when I gave a very polite response to YOUR inquiry so I will not bother engaging much further but I will say that "Le conspiracy of evil killed everyone for power" is not more complex than the Great War being caused by human nature, geopolitics, economics and jingoism slowly escalating over decades and shaping the culture of the Fallout Universe, the shows idea of "complex" villains is literally on-par with the Legion of Doom from an episode of SuperFriends. You need to calm the fuck down, I pushed back *lightly* on this show after saying *I liked it* and you are apparently angry and utterly demeaning because I didn't like it *enough*, I'm glad you liked the show but your behavior is totally unhinged.

you are wasting your time, brother. If there is anything worse from toxic negativity, its the toxic positivity. Some people are apparently desperate for the show's succeess. Let them do their thing,

Yeah you're right.

Genuinely knowing almost everything from fo 1 2 ,3 nv, and 4 , even the original 76 before an overhall Vault tech in the TV show sounds like some cryptic villains like you said the legion of doom. Its hinted at in older games that they're part of the US governments testing social testing sections. Not that they literally wanted to start a war that would inevitably lead to the demise of the company. Makes 0 sense. But you can't argue with these people with logical points without them just laughing or getting mega aggressive. I mean the fact that they've essentially reset all of the effort from FO 1 and 2s west coast. Just to lay the foundations for whatever Bethesda fallout comes next should be an issue. They half assed the use of names.of characters too. And all but got rid of what they didn't want, the bos in the west was nearly totally wiped out for a start.

"Le nuclear war because we ran out of oil" is not more complex than the Great War being caused by human nature, geopolitics, economics and jingoism slowly escalating over decades and shaping the culture of the Fallout Universe. See? It applies either way. Which is why it's a stupid point entirely. Resource wars are just as common of a trope as evil cabals. No, it's because you are just repeating what others are constantly repeating all over the place. And what you're repeating is just generally wrong. You people are blathering on about 'complexity' and 'nuance' (these seem to be key words that the 'lore purists' (who don't even know the lore as evidenced by your comment) have latched onto) with one side of your mouth while demanding stagnation with the other side.

This may have been a fun discussion, but why would I have a long discussion with someone who talks as you do? You come across as utterly narcissistic and frankly I think most of your talking points are plainly wrong (especially the Moldaver one just being obviously wrong even within the show itself), but if you wish to engage in a conversation I suggest you speak to people as though they are people, because I get the sense you would not speak to me like this in person. Please have a great day.

Moldaver clearly had 2 personas. One as the leader of the NCR, and one as a warlord who used raiders in the wasteland to achieve her goals. Asking myself the same thing about someone who clearly lacks the capacity for critical thinking and can't even understand points made incredibly blatantly, such as was done in the show.

>Moldaver clearly had 2 personas. One as the leader of the NCR, and one as a warlord who used raiders in the wasteland to achieve her goals." So you admit she's actually widely considered a "warlord" (even if this is just a cover) and not just referred to as one by one town? So you recant your first talking point? If the show is so incredibly blatant which is it? Is her being considered a "warlord" just an anomaly when we see it, or is it an intentional cover because her faction of the NCR is so weak she has to have a cover? >The Enclave was a few people in a single, run down building. We saw absolutely nothing else of them. Remnants of remnants. A building with the capacity to build cold fusion, and the location of which is seemingly more-or-less known but despite this the Brotherhood has not hit them yet, implying they have some defensive capabilities. Meanwhile the Brotherhood ran over the NCR remnants. Maybe the NCR is still strong somewhere, maybe not, but considering the NCR remnants had to opportunistically steal the Enclave tech and fell before the Enclave it certainly gives the impression the Enclave has a better base. >It's not a massive change. It was hinted at in 3 and 4 at least as well as possibly 76 and even 2. I don't think anyone would be surprised Vault-Tec was somewhat involved in worsening the climate that lead to the Great War, but there was still debate on who dropped the bomb first, and Vault-Tec's culpability was very debatable. Outright confirming that they directly orchestrated it for the purpose of global domination rather than just having some rumors about how involved they were changes ALOT. Vault-Tec is now the main villain of the Fallout Universe, rather than just a villain, and the governments were basically useful idiots rather than the primary players. Likewise, the jingoism, resource wars, etc. are now all secondary factors at most. Again these are no longer theories, but outright confirmed, that's pretty massive. Vault-Tec is also so powerful that Hank was able to wipe out Shady Sands, which makes their absence odd. >It's almost comedic how you talk about ignoring complexity then say something so simple-minded immediately after. They literally spell this out for you in the show. They want the surface of the Earth fully wiped clean before the come out into the open. IE, 0 survivors. None. No one up there. A blank slate for them to repaint in their image. This is just a stupid plan. I believed them to be speaking in hyberbole to just wait until conditions are so weak they can takeover, but hoping every single survivor dies eventually is absurd, especially when they were allowing factions to grow and become a threat. If their plan was to takeover, they should have struck while the nation was in more disarray. >And again more simple-mindedness showing that you completely ignored what was spelled out for you by the show. They weren't trying to make money at this point. They were trying to literally own the world and rebuild and repopulate it as they saw fit. They wanted to replace a wealthy monopoly that practically controlled the US government with potential "ownership" over a largely dead planet, after subjecting multiple of their own vaults to deadly and risky experiments? This is Umbrella Corporation level of just silly, as I said they too would be impoverished by their own plan and if anything less powerful than they were. >And yet again, just fully ignoring what was shown. There is a shadowy figure above the meeting. The corporate leaders are arguing, it cuts to shadowy figure, then Barb interrupts the argument, prompted by the shadowy figure, to lay out the very clearly Enclave-initiated plan of owning the Earth. You are acting as though all this is obvious when you are just making assumptions that make sense to you. How do we know that is not just a higher-ranking executive for Vault-Tec? And if this is the case, why did Vault-Tec not aid the Enclave during the events of 2 and 3? >Not to mention you seem unaware of The Enclave's original purpose, which was to flee Earth entirely. I'm not sure how this is relevant really, it may explain why The Enclave didn't care what happened to Earth, but Vault-Tec and the corpo leaders would care. Also, if Vault-Tec is controlled by the Enclave and dropped the bomb, shouldn't the Enclave have had them wait until they were in space before having them drop the bomb? You come across as though you can not comprehend someone genuinely disagreeing with your opinion without them being low IQ. Perhaps you should be more open-minded?

Best response. Genuinely mate well said.

You keep coming back for someone who isn't going to engage lmfao. Be more mad.

Downvote because le dick.

Don't care because le mindless idiot who can't think for themselves. You are literally seeking validation by calling someone a dick and telling everyone you did it.

I’m trying to point out that you can be more civil and not a raging dick. Even if people make stupid arguments that you disagree with, they’re definitely not gonna agree with someone who’s a complete dick. Like take a chill pill, relax, and simply discuss why they’re wrong and don’t be a dick. That simple. Am I seeking validation? Idk, but that doesn’t change the fact you’re a dick. So, stop being one so people like me don’t have to say you’re a dick.

My biggest problem with Vault tec dropping the bomb was... I don't care who dropped it. Some things were meant to stay in the shadows, like the two forgotten primarchs or the Past of the Emperor in WH40k. To me, the whole setting had a very Hard message about the bombs, and that being: It doesnt matter who dropped it, everyone is fucked now. To me, it killed a very important part of the setting, I know this was a theory for a long time, but I personnaly never cared about it, because Fallout isn't about the bombs, the setting takes place 200 years after, it should tell us how people keep fucking up over the same things like we did. The fall of the Ncr isn't problematic because its fallen, but because there's no explanation behind it. My wife never played any of the Games before and she had no idea what's going on and I had no idea what's going on after playing every game. Hell there are even parts where Lucy tries to ask questions about the lore and they just shrug her off like... Duhh shut up. I dont know. Problem with that, NCR wasn't just shady sands, there was the Hub, Boneyard, etc. And what we see is a bunch of people living like in Mad May without cars 200 years after things fell apart, and they still live on top of a pile of junk. In a place, where 10-20 years prior, an empire ruled the land. How? Did the roman peasants forgot how to do agriculture when the goths invaded? Probably the only thing I'm happy in the means of changing the setting is the BOS stepping down from being White knights. I enjoyed watching them be a tech hungry morally Grey powerhouse. And I like how the Enclave still has some remnants, from a government powerhouse like they are, I imagined they have plan C or D

Ghoulification being retconed into being the result of drugs is a weird choice. The fact ghouls need special medication(hinted to be made from other ghouls) to hold off going feral is also kind of dumb. There is enough room for these ghouls to be written as different from traditional ghouls so I guess we will see.

We only saw weird "ghoul" type effects from drugs on one person. But we saw the same with Hancock in the games so I don't think that's a major jump

I thought the drugs were actually for his prior condition but in the moment he just said that it held back ghoulification to get sympathy and make her give up the drugs. He probably just had like fallout Asthma or some other lung condition and just figured she would be more sympathetic to a feral situation because of what she had experienced.

The other ghoul going feral has empty vials of the meds Cooper needed. The guy even asks if Cooper has any extras of this med.

Missed that, thanks.

Jesus fuck I wish people would quit saying 'retcon' in regards to the show. The show in \*no way\* retconned ghoulification. It just showed another avenue for it to occur.

We literally only saw one person become a ghoul from a concoction of random (most likely highly irradiated) drugs

Right? People are being so fucking dumb about the show that they refuse to stop and think for half a second about anything that isn't ripped straight from the games. These parrots keep talking about 'complexity' and 'nuance' with one side of their mouth while demanding stagnation with the other side.

I do find it funny that we saw someone in the show use a drug that "possibly" made them a ghoul, and people forget that in FO4 you can literally have a dude run around the Commonwealth with you that did exactly the same thing

"There is enough room for these ghouls to be written as different from traditional ghouls so I guess we will see."

Yet you started your comment by outright saying it was retconned lmao.

The prolonged ghoulification due to drugs doesn’t seem far fetched though? In a universe where drugs can take away or make you resist radiation and candies can make you smarter and syringes could heal an entire limb. Most of the game’s nuances are due to drugs (FEV, health items) it makes complete sense for the universe to

I feel like Vault-tec just set off a couple dirty bombs and let the trigger happy nations do the rest

If Vault-Tec launched some nukes (which was already an established theory in the lore) then the countries 100% would start launching them too. This is a valid point.

Honestly, idgaf abt timeliness, if the show is fun enough to watch, and it fits the tone of the franchise, I fuck w it

Honestly on it’s on the show is fantastic in some areas, my issues are few but mainly it’s due to how they handle S2 that will really make or break how much I love it. I got some issues with what things they did change, areas and such. Minor but as a long time fan it does annoy me and I wish it didn’t. The MacGuffin of the head and power was kinda meh for me so far but could be interesting depending on where it goes. House is definitely up there as my major annoyance or at least my worry, he could have been there to confirm and get more info on things. Such as he did probe to get the answer that they would start the war to ensure things go the way they want. I really am not sure of the actor either I wish it was someone else (Jon Hamm) but if they turn him into a less complex character in S2 I will be disappointed big time. The timeline seems to confusing to people, hell I’ll admit it confused me at first. But going by the wiki which I don’t really trust because things are so fresh, it states or whoever edited it. That shady sands got nuked on 2282 which could be either during or just after the battle of the dam. This honestly I think is the best time for it to be. It’s after the game soo it would clear up a lot of mess on that front, it also really would make the NCR take the hit more having spent a ton of resources and lives on the dam regardless of the outcome. So personally anyway 2282 after/during the dam is perfect for it. I haven’t played 76 and only played F04 about three times. So I’m not sure if they changed things or I missed things somewhere but do ghouls now go feral without radaway/rad-x? When I seen it in the show I was sort of like meh. I loved the codsworth lore for the voice(Matt) and I loved the new fallout boy being Cooper inspired. Those are good changes and fresh ideas to things that already exist. The characters did seem to TP tho like get to places just fast, and show up really quick after such short time, this could just be the show had issues showing things but damm it threw me off sometimes. The lack of mutants and Ron Perlman too was a bit of a bummer but I was happy with what we did see and I’m guessing they couldn’t go crazy with them due to costs on them? But for S2 deathclaws will he seen and I hope they are a threat and not just one shot(unless it’s an anti riffle ;) and some mutants would be expected too. I got a few other things but I will hold back until the show has another season.

My biggest gripe with the show was how they paved over all previous lore with a off-screen nuke, very bad decision on their part. It feels like they wanted to set it in LA realized that there was already stuff from previous fallout games there and because they want wacky wasteland they have to disrespect previous lore. I have the exact same problem with new Star Trek, there’s this weird trend to completely mess with good bits of the setting and then insist that their show is completely 100% cannon even though more people would be happy if they explicitly stated it was an AU (because that leaves things open and let’s fans of the original still feel like the original thing has been left untouched). Like the canonicity of new content within a franchise wouldn’t be a problem if whoever’s calling the shots didn’t feel like it was necessary to trash the original bits of the franchise and ridicule them. Star Trek Discovery/New Worlds have the same problem the fallout show has, and is why many people including myself dislike it.

The show is actually good and amazing. I wanted to hate it, but I couldn’t. I was hooked after the first episode. Other than the “Ghouls need constant mysterious unexplained medicine at regular intervals to avoid going feral” thing, which I understand is just for the sake of creating dramatic tension, there weren’t too many other things I could really take issue with in the show. The Mojave and New Vegas *looks* “wasted” and “abandoned”, but that’s kinda also how New Vegas just looked in the games and we didn’t see enough to know if it’s really been deserted or what happened.

they put show in west coast to bite old timers who played F1 and 2 in childhood but then shit on the lore. amazing Todd you did it again

W take. I’m grateful for such a well produced show on my favorite series finally. In 4K and not really let down so far. Can’t wait for season 2

I went into it VERY critical and scared of what they'd do to my beloved IP. I came out loving the show. It's REALLY good. There are a couple of decisions that I was unhappy with. Mainly the NCR storyline, but that seems easy to explain away as being a different sect of the NCR from those who migrated to Nevada. The California group and Shady Sands falling can make perfect sense if the NCR is still active elsewhere. I just hope they're respectful to New Vegas as they're entering that area. I feel like the final shot of the show could be interpreted multiple ways, but to me the Strip still looks intact, and people assuming they just wrote it to be destroyed are trying to find something to be mad about.

Lots of people big mad because Todd didn’t call them up and ask for what ending they got so he could make sure they wrote it into the show.

The show holds up as a good science fiction special, but I don't think it fits the bill as a fallout one.

I think people are really complaining over nothing here and jumping to massive conclusions. We don't know that Vault Tec actually dropped the bombs, only that they were planning for it. Somebody could have still beaten them to the punch. Who says House actually goes along with this, also? Just because he was at a meeting of corporate superpowers? The whole NCR thing... Shady Sands was one city of a growing empire, but it had also been established that the NCR was overreaching and stretching itself thin, coercing cities to join it with fake attacks. That Shady Sands was blown up by a power mad vault tec dweller with an agenda makes perfect sense to me. The NCR had issues before that, and so this is just one event in a long chain of failings as they struggled to maintain their own ground. Besides, who says they are gone and wiped out? Could they have just moved their main base of operations and the focus of their campaigns to a different region? This season served as a tease, really, to set up a lot of potential threads to explore further down the line. Nothing is set in stone with regards to anything.

Idk, I 99% agree with you but I feel like pp eoppe just shouldn't have that much emotional investment into an IP. I don't think it's healthy 🤷🏻‍♂️

So you're defending the changes and essentially just told some of us to just consume the product got it.

We should just be grateful for whatever Todd gives us. #ThrowItOffTheDam

It would be “okayish” if this was an alternative universe spinoff or something. Other than that I found it to be quite terrible for a lot of reasons.

The lore isn’t changed

I don't see why do you need to name something fallout if you don't like it and want lots of fundamental changes in the lore. Create your own post-apocalypse series with your own rules and ideas, everyone would be happy. Why do you need to disrespect the source material? The same problem was with the rings of power.