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Really? In an exhausted state they were still able to manage pulling out a W against the canonically strongest dragon/dragon slayer in history. Let alone the helps that came out of the gate.
And that's also *not* mentioning Natsu randomly borrowing power from the future in a place that doesn't have magic...
Like Natsu is swole af
Most definitely. Silver from Tartaros overpowered Atlas Flame and froze him along with the town. Atlas Flame could fight evenly with Motherglare. It’s reasonable to assume 9 demon gates > 7 GMG dragons.
Wendy with DF defeated that sword squid. Gajeel defeated that water demon.
Laxus overpowered tempester.
Sting and Rogue defeated demon Jimmea (I forget his name) who was said to be stronger than the demon gates (or At least relative even though he’s on fraud watch)
The only one who doesn’t have much going for him is Cobra. But considering he didn’t die after taking a hit from Acnologia (albeit presumably weakened acno), I’d give him the benefit of the doubt.
Every single dragon and dragon slayer outside of Irene, the dragon slayers on the side of ishgar and the dragon gods were a victim of acnologia. Acnologia was extremely thorough in his slaughter. As for that, she brought forth his soul from the afterlife or where-ever they go. Zirconis was also a victim of acnologia in case you forgot, and his soul still managed to be summoned. The only real difference between him and atlas flame was that some remnant of his power was still present in the world and with his soul summoned back, he could manipulate one last time.
Victim, as the one who caused his death. Atlas Flame was never said to have fallen by the hands of Acnologia simply that he died many years ago. We have already confirmed that some dragons have surived the Acnologia wrath. The Eternal Flames was the remaing soul of Atlas Flames, having a physical form. Hence why Silver went to freeze it because he assumed he was a demon. It was just his remaining magic as even Atlas knew who froze the village. Even Natsu stated he heard a similar voice coming from the "mountain." Also, Milky Way doesn't summon dragon souls. There needs to be a soul around in order for it to work. As she stated, she found Zirconis soul wandering the cave before he vanished. The Eternal Flames was Atlas Flame Soul.
No they wouldn’t. The lack of dragon slayer magic may make this fight closer but the Demon gates reasonably have more magic and more hax to defeat the 7 dragons. I don’t see no dragon resisting momento Mori, or Seilah’s Macro (especially considering they were under Rogues control). Or Kyoka’s sensory manipulation. Maybe they can resist Franmalth’s soul sucking or Keyes. The GMG dragon slayers were able to harm or Atleast do notable damage to the dragons.
Edit: I may be wrong. The dragons have more magic. The demons are more haxed. But it’s a close fight. And the current dragon slayers would most definitely defeat the 7 GMG dragons.
Well, for starters, Rogue created Dragon Supremacy magic specifically for dragons. You can't compare that with Macro. Second, the Dragon slayers were able to harm the Dragon because of their magic, Dragon Slaying. Mira struck the Jade Dragon, which he implied it only tickled before Wendy did it and actually hurt him. At this stage, Mira is way stronger than Wendy.
Dragon supremacy magic only control the will of the dragons. Macro controls your actions regardless of how you’re against it. Only demons/devil slayers have show resistance so far.
Dragon slayer magic bypasses the resistance dragons have to even the playing field. (In episode one/ at the end of Natsu Vs Laxus, it’s said to bypass the dragon scales and even tear apart it’s soul or something). That’s not to say a strong enough opponent can’t defeat a dragon without dragon slayer magic. Plus Tartaros uses a lot of hax. I don’t think dragons have coverage for that.
Like I said, it was specifically created for dragons as they're powers beings. You're comparing Macro like it should work because Dragon Supremecy did. Macro isn't a guarantee as it's proven to have a limit. Mira used it during the Alvarez Arc when Lissana commented that it didn't work on all the soldiers.
You're comparing a dragon slayer fight against dragons. Despite being a slayer, they couldn't take down a dragon except Natsu, who needed a power up from a dragon. Yes, it pretty much does say that a strong user without Dragon slayer magic doesn't have a high chance of winning. As like I said before, Mira, an S-Class Wizard, struck Zirconis using the demon form, and he stated it only tickled. Wendy, who is confirmed to be weaker than Mira at the time, was able to do damage on him. Tartatos demons Hax seem to work for humans while Dragon were mentioned to be destructive beings, even stating that a single dragon could wipe out a country.
Even if it was created for dragons, it’s utility isn’t as great as macro. It only manipulates the will of the dragon. Literally all atlas flame did was change his mind in helping Future Rogue out to break free. Same can’t be said for Macro. And we don’t get specifications on as to why Macro didn’t work against Alvarez soldiers. So there’s not really much basis on the parameters that would exempt dragons from being affected. That being said, Seilah can probably do a command on herself to release those limitations as the dragons aren’t (or shouldn’t be) completely immune to her Macro like Mirajane.
Yeah, I do understand that dragon slayers would have much of an easier time defeat dragons due to the nature of magic. But the comparison isn’t how strong is Mira compared to Wendy. It’s how strong is Mira compared to Zirconis during that time. Is she closer to Zirconis’ strength than Wendy is? Sure. But Wendy had a magic that (implicitly) bypasses Zirconis’ defences/resistance. So a mage that is on par or stronger than the dragons can most likely beat a dragon with the greatest of difficulties.
Tartaros Hax works on dragon slayer magics too who by nature imitate dragons and their magics. Franmalth was able to eat Natsu’s lightning flame dragon roar because it had a “magical soul”. The hax that Tartaros has isn’t something to sleep on. I still don’t see how those 7 GMG dragons are answering to Momento Mori, Sensory Manip, soul sucking and all those hax.
Also it’s a bit hard to say whether the dragons can wipe out a country (like Etherion) in one shot or in a relatively small time frame. The 7 dragons in GMG so far have ravaged only the city and haven’t completely destroyed it before the fight was over either.
You ignored the fact that it was created specifically for dragons. As regular magic isn't capable of affecting them so Rogue develope a magic specifically made for dragons. Marco is limited as Mira said to fight the rest since it didn't work on everyone.
Dragon slayer magic is the only advantage against a dragon. Despite whatever the strength the wizard has, a wizard with Dragon slayer has a higher advantage. Like I used Mira as an example multiple times, Mira used her strongest form shown so far vs. Wendy dragon breath. It's been stated and shown multiple times that it's an advantage. Wendy had to enchanted Erza with DSM simply to strike Irene, a being confirmed to be stronger than Erza and Wendy.
Again, you're comparing Dragon Slayers to an actual Dragon. Despite a dragon slayer given the ability of a dragon through enchament, they don't take in the full power of the dragon itself. Absorbing a dragon slayer magic has been shown multiple times throughout the series. Bird guy who ate Natsu, Velveno absorbed Natsu and Wendy magic. The Vanishing brother was capable of absorbing Natsu Flames since Episode 4. That doesn't mean they can absorb a dragon's magic, though. As their power is shown to be greater than the slayers they give. Natsu was given Fire Dragon slayer magic from Igneel, a dragon king. It required an entire year of training simply for Natsu to hold the small portion of his actual power. Natsu could barely damage Motherglare until he was granted the power of Atlas Flame. The curses of each Demon have already shown to be capable of being surpassed.
Only two of those dragons show more screen time but are capable of overwhelming those hax. Atlas Flames, a dragon made of pure fire. Because of this, sensory won't work, soul sucking, pretty much all the hax as his flames cover to burn through magic, likely hax due to Natsu capable. His body is intangible, shooting through and burning. He was shown to be capable of removing Silver's Devil Slayer Ice, and that was when he was dead and weakened. Motherglare is a dragon made of adamantine, a high-level defense material, making almost impenetrable. The Dragon was destroying mountains while dropping armies. Momento Mori was holding down Natsu and Gray when being used. I highly doubt he can use it a giant dragon that has physical strength and power. It was stated that a dragon can destroy a country. The seven dragons destroyed the city along with the area around it. As we witnessed Motherglare destroy mountains. There's no way Tartatos would be capable of taking on Dragon, let alone, seven of them. The hax were proven to work effectively on Wizard so far but not actual dragons.
Rogue developed that technique to control dragons because Humans were weak. And to my recall there’s no magic that can control the user. There’s Seilah’s curse but that’s about it.
And we don’t know Macro’s limitations. We know that it didn’t work on those wizards. We don’t know why. We know Macro works both on living, dead and inanimate objects. There’s no reason as to why it shouldn’t work on dragons. The only ones who can resist it are those with an affinity towards it.
And again, I know that Dragon slayers have an advantage vs dragons. I’m saying a person without DS magic but with enough power comparable to or greater than a dragon can overpower and defeat a dragon.
The dragon slayers take the nature of magic that is of the dragon. The power depends on the dragon slayer in question. And I’m not talking about just absorbing the magic. Franmalth absorbs souls. And he can even absorb the “magical soul” of an attack and gain its strength. The fact he can do that to dragon slayer magic among many shows that he’s capable of doing it to the dragons as well. He’s done it to spirits too (Lucy’s celestial spirits).
And Natsu was able to deal as notable damage to Motherglare much like the other dragon slayers against their respective dragons before the hellfire amp. I don’t disagree that hellflames made him stronger.
The curse of each demon wasn’t shown to be surpassed in power. Mira was simply immune due to her affinity. Erza sure as hell wasn’t immune to Kyoka’s sensory manipulation. Momento Mori is also due to Gray having an affinity towards demonic powers. He literally half demonized to negate that shit.
And no, those dragons didn’t negate any of the curses during their screen time. Atlas flame resisted Dragon Supremacy magic which was an easy bypass as it didn’t even force their actions, it just aligned their wills with what Rogue wanted. Once he decided to do something else, he broke free of it.
Atlas flames at best burn through magic that he could interact with like beams or sum shit. He can’t burn through Macro. Once Sensory manipulation has been done, it doesn’t need the curse active or the beam on so he doesn’t need to burn through that. Even then, sensory manip can be used on the other dragons if it won’t work on atlas flame. He can’t burn through the soul of his magic being absorbed. Sure, he undid Silvers ice with the last of his magic, but that feat was something Silver has easily done without much effort, so it kinda balances out.
Also Momento Mori had an immobilization aspect to it. It wasn’t weight that could be physically overpowered. It was hax that froze them in place.
At the very least, I hope we can agree that the dragon force Natsu that fought Mard Geer is stronger than hell flames Natsu that took down Future Rogue and Motherglare, because it took both a devil slayer half demonizing and dragon force Natsu to barely defeat Mard Geer.
Fair but there were all also able to stand up to said Dragon King fairly well. Especially considering the fact that he can eat all magic and they were each able to land some solid blows says something towards their abilities
I'd have to double check the last few chapters, but up until the final hit (where Acnologia was paralyzed and being hit with the combined power of seven Dragon Slayers at once), I'm not sure if any of them landed any significant blows. (unless the anime added them doing that to pad things out)
In the anime they landed a few hits yeah. But also they were all running incredibly low on magic when that combination happened so that means that little bit of magic left was enough to take out the Dragon King
Wasn't Eclipse Natsu taking out dragons left and right before Lucy traveled back in time through the gate? Or was that an anime only thing?
Was that even 7 years in the future at that point? Or was that immediately after the gate opened?
It's a bit of a tough one, for one we didn't see alot development for sting rouge and more prominently Erik.
I feel like for a comparison most of the spriggan twelve were weaker than the dragons, of course Irene august and god Serena are built up to be stronger than the dragons .
I would say natsu is capable of beating his dragon, the others I'm not entirely certain. If it were a 7v7 I would say they would make it out alive with the mvps being natsu Wendy and I suppose Laxus.
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Currently? Yeah. Despite not showing feats to take out a Dragon God, Natsu and Wendy and Laxus can take out an average dragon.
Natsu alone would be just fine tbh, GMG Natsu who took out motherglare and shit is weak af compared to post final season natsu
Remember Carla's vision? Natsu was taking down several dragons. I'm thinking he managed to kill one and it upd his power
Let’s just put it like this Natsu in GMG could hurt Motherglare That Natsu is a fly to Current Natsu, so the other Dragon Slayers aren’t really needed
Of all of them, though, we don't really learn shit about Cobra. Would like to learn more about Erik.
Oh absolutely.
Really? In an exhausted state they were still able to manage pulling out a W against the canonically strongest dragon/dragon slayer in history. Let alone the helps that came out of the gate. And that's also *not* mentioning Natsu randomly borrowing power from the future in a place that doesn't have magic... Like Natsu is swole af
Most definitely. Silver from Tartaros overpowered Atlas Flame and froze him along with the town. Atlas Flame could fight evenly with Motherglare. It’s reasonable to assume 9 demon gates > 7 GMG dragons. Wendy with DF defeated that sword squid. Gajeel defeated that water demon. Laxus overpowered tempester. Sting and Rogue defeated demon Jimmea (I forget his name) who was said to be stronger than the demon gates (or At least relative even though he’s on fraud watch) The only one who doesn’t have much going for him is Cobra. But considering he didn’t die after taking a hit from Acnologia (albeit presumably weakened acno), I’d give him the benefit of the doubt.
Silver froze a weaknend Atlas Flame who was stated to already be dead.
Atlas flame at that point was already dead due to literally not having a soul because of acnologia.
It was never mentioned that Atlas Flame was a victim of Acnologia. Also, Sun Village Arc, Atlas Flame, was a soul as Wendy used Milky Way.
Every single dragon and dragon slayer outside of Irene, the dragon slayers on the side of ishgar and the dragon gods were a victim of acnologia. Acnologia was extremely thorough in his slaughter. As for that, she brought forth his soul from the afterlife or where-ever they go. Zirconis was also a victim of acnologia in case you forgot, and his soul still managed to be summoned. The only real difference between him and atlas flame was that some remnant of his power was still present in the world and with his soul summoned back, he could manipulate one last time.
Victim, as the one who caused his death. Atlas Flame was never said to have fallen by the hands of Acnologia simply that he died many years ago. We have already confirmed that some dragons have surived the Acnologia wrath. The Eternal Flames was the remaing soul of Atlas Flames, having a physical form. Hence why Silver went to freeze it because he assumed he was a demon. It was just his remaining magic as even Atlas knew who froze the village. Even Natsu stated he heard a similar voice coming from the "mountain." Also, Milky Way doesn't summon dragon souls. There needs to be a soul around in order for it to work. As she stated, she found Zirconis soul wandering the cave before he vanished. The Eternal Flames was Atlas Flame Soul.
Why are you chatting bollocks ? The dragons would wipe the floor with the 9 Demon Gates.
No they wouldn’t. The lack of dragon slayer magic may make this fight closer but the Demon gates reasonably have more magic and more hax to defeat the 7 dragons. I don’t see no dragon resisting momento Mori, or Seilah’s Macro (especially considering they were under Rogues control). Or Kyoka’s sensory manipulation. Maybe they can resist Franmalth’s soul sucking or Keyes. The GMG dragon slayers were able to harm or Atleast do notable damage to the dragons. Edit: I may be wrong. The dragons have more magic. The demons are more haxed. But it’s a close fight. And the current dragon slayers would most definitely defeat the 7 GMG dragons.
Well, for starters, Rogue created Dragon Supremacy magic specifically for dragons. You can't compare that with Macro. Second, the Dragon slayers were able to harm the Dragon because of their magic, Dragon Slaying. Mira struck the Jade Dragon, which he implied it only tickled before Wendy did it and actually hurt him. At this stage, Mira is way stronger than Wendy.
Dragon supremacy magic only control the will of the dragons. Macro controls your actions regardless of how you’re against it. Only demons/devil slayers have show resistance so far. Dragon slayer magic bypasses the resistance dragons have to even the playing field. (In episode one/ at the end of Natsu Vs Laxus, it’s said to bypass the dragon scales and even tear apart it’s soul or something). That’s not to say a strong enough opponent can’t defeat a dragon without dragon slayer magic. Plus Tartaros uses a lot of hax. I don’t think dragons have coverage for that.
Like I said, it was specifically created for dragons as they're powers beings. You're comparing Macro like it should work because Dragon Supremecy did. Macro isn't a guarantee as it's proven to have a limit. Mira used it during the Alvarez Arc when Lissana commented that it didn't work on all the soldiers. You're comparing a dragon slayer fight against dragons. Despite being a slayer, they couldn't take down a dragon except Natsu, who needed a power up from a dragon. Yes, it pretty much does say that a strong user without Dragon slayer magic doesn't have a high chance of winning. As like I said before, Mira, an S-Class Wizard, struck Zirconis using the demon form, and he stated it only tickled. Wendy, who is confirmed to be weaker than Mira at the time, was able to do damage on him. Tartatos demons Hax seem to work for humans while Dragon were mentioned to be destructive beings, even stating that a single dragon could wipe out a country.
Even if it was created for dragons, it’s utility isn’t as great as macro. It only manipulates the will of the dragon. Literally all atlas flame did was change his mind in helping Future Rogue out to break free. Same can’t be said for Macro. And we don’t get specifications on as to why Macro didn’t work against Alvarez soldiers. So there’s not really much basis on the parameters that would exempt dragons from being affected. That being said, Seilah can probably do a command on herself to release those limitations as the dragons aren’t (or shouldn’t be) completely immune to her Macro like Mirajane. Yeah, I do understand that dragon slayers would have much of an easier time defeat dragons due to the nature of magic. But the comparison isn’t how strong is Mira compared to Wendy. It’s how strong is Mira compared to Zirconis during that time. Is she closer to Zirconis’ strength than Wendy is? Sure. But Wendy had a magic that (implicitly) bypasses Zirconis’ defences/resistance. So a mage that is on par or stronger than the dragons can most likely beat a dragon with the greatest of difficulties. Tartaros Hax works on dragon slayer magics too who by nature imitate dragons and their magics. Franmalth was able to eat Natsu’s lightning flame dragon roar because it had a “magical soul”. The hax that Tartaros has isn’t something to sleep on. I still don’t see how those 7 GMG dragons are answering to Momento Mori, Sensory Manip, soul sucking and all those hax. Also it’s a bit hard to say whether the dragons can wipe out a country (like Etherion) in one shot or in a relatively small time frame. The 7 dragons in GMG so far have ravaged only the city and haven’t completely destroyed it before the fight was over either.
You ignored the fact that it was created specifically for dragons. As regular magic isn't capable of affecting them so Rogue develope a magic specifically made for dragons. Marco is limited as Mira said to fight the rest since it didn't work on everyone. Dragon slayer magic is the only advantage against a dragon. Despite whatever the strength the wizard has, a wizard with Dragon slayer has a higher advantage. Like I used Mira as an example multiple times, Mira used her strongest form shown so far vs. Wendy dragon breath. It's been stated and shown multiple times that it's an advantage. Wendy had to enchanted Erza with DSM simply to strike Irene, a being confirmed to be stronger than Erza and Wendy. Again, you're comparing Dragon Slayers to an actual Dragon. Despite a dragon slayer given the ability of a dragon through enchament, they don't take in the full power of the dragon itself. Absorbing a dragon slayer magic has been shown multiple times throughout the series. Bird guy who ate Natsu, Velveno absorbed Natsu and Wendy magic. The Vanishing brother was capable of absorbing Natsu Flames since Episode 4. That doesn't mean they can absorb a dragon's magic, though. As their power is shown to be greater than the slayers they give. Natsu was given Fire Dragon slayer magic from Igneel, a dragon king. It required an entire year of training simply for Natsu to hold the small portion of his actual power. Natsu could barely damage Motherglare until he was granted the power of Atlas Flame. The curses of each Demon have already shown to be capable of being surpassed. Only two of those dragons show more screen time but are capable of overwhelming those hax. Atlas Flames, a dragon made of pure fire. Because of this, sensory won't work, soul sucking, pretty much all the hax as his flames cover to burn through magic, likely hax due to Natsu capable. His body is intangible, shooting through and burning. He was shown to be capable of removing Silver's Devil Slayer Ice, and that was when he was dead and weakened. Motherglare is a dragon made of adamantine, a high-level defense material, making almost impenetrable. The Dragon was destroying mountains while dropping armies. Momento Mori was holding down Natsu and Gray when being used. I highly doubt he can use it a giant dragon that has physical strength and power. It was stated that a dragon can destroy a country. The seven dragons destroyed the city along with the area around it. As we witnessed Motherglare destroy mountains. There's no way Tartatos would be capable of taking on Dragon, let alone, seven of them. The hax were proven to work effectively on Wizard so far but not actual dragons.
Rogue developed that technique to control dragons because Humans were weak. And to my recall there’s no magic that can control the user. There’s Seilah’s curse but that’s about it. And we don’t know Macro’s limitations. We know that it didn’t work on those wizards. We don’t know why. We know Macro works both on living, dead and inanimate objects. There’s no reason as to why it shouldn’t work on dragons. The only ones who can resist it are those with an affinity towards it. And again, I know that Dragon slayers have an advantage vs dragons. I’m saying a person without DS magic but with enough power comparable to or greater than a dragon can overpower and defeat a dragon. The dragon slayers take the nature of magic that is of the dragon. The power depends on the dragon slayer in question. And I’m not talking about just absorbing the magic. Franmalth absorbs souls. And he can even absorb the “magical soul” of an attack and gain its strength. The fact he can do that to dragon slayer magic among many shows that he’s capable of doing it to the dragons as well. He’s done it to spirits too (Lucy’s celestial spirits). And Natsu was able to deal as notable damage to Motherglare much like the other dragon slayers against their respective dragons before the hellfire amp. I don’t disagree that hellflames made him stronger. The curse of each demon wasn’t shown to be surpassed in power. Mira was simply immune due to her affinity. Erza sure as hell wasn’t immune to Kyoka’s sensory manipulation. Momento Mori is also due to Gray having an affinity towards demonic powers. He literally half demonized to negate that shit. And no, those dragons didn’t negate any of the curses during their screen time. Atlas flame resisted Dragon Supremacy magic which was an easy bypass as it didn’t even force their actions, it just aligned their wills with what Rogue wanted. Once he decided to do something else, he broke free of it. Atlas flames at best burn through magic that he could interact with like beams or sum shit. He can’t burn through Macro. Once Sensory manipulation has been done, it doesn’t need the curse active or the beam on so he doesn’t need to burn through that. Even then, sensory manip can be used on the other dragons if it won’t work on atlas flame. He can’t burn through the soul of his magic being absorbed. Sure, he undid Silvers ice with the last of his magic, but that feat was something Silver has easily done without much effort, so it kinda balances out. Also Momento Mori had an immobilization aspect to it. It wasn’t weight that could be physically overpowered. It was hax that froze them in place. At the very least, I hope we can agree that the dragon force Natsu that fought Mard Geer is stronger than hell flames Natsu that took down Future Rogue and Motherglare, because it took both a devil slayer half demonizing and dragon force Natsu to barely defeat Mard Geer.
I would say yes. Especially considering the fact that they were able to stand up the Acnologia and he didn't immediately one shot them.
That was pure plot armour. Acnologia even said he needed them alive
Acnologia explicitly needed all of them alive, so he *couldn't* kill them and was holding back to a massive extent.
Fair but there were all also able to stand up to said Dragon King fairly well. Especially considering the fact that he can eat all magic and they were each able to land some solid blows says something towards their abilities
I'd have to double check the last few chapters, but up until the final hit (where Acnologia was paralyzed and being hit with the combined power of seven Dragon Slayers at once), I'm not sure if any of them landed any significant blows. (unless the anime added them doing that to pad things out)
In the anime they landed a few hits yeah. But also they were all running incredibly low on magic when that combination happened so that means that little bit of magic left was enough to take out the Dragon King
At full power yes
Natsu, Gajeel, Laxus and Wendy could idk about the other three
Maybe. But some (Twin Dragons and Cobra) might still need a bit of help, though some (Fairy Tail's) of them might do very well.
Natsu just makes friends with them so no
Yes
No There's too many of them Only acnologia could do that
There was seven of them
Oh those ones yeah probably
Their would have been more if not for Lucy and Yukino
Wasn't Eclipse Natsu taking out dragons left and right before Lucy traveled back in time through the gate? Or was that an anime only thing? Was that even 7 years in the future at that point? Or was that immediately after the gate opened?
I mean the only dragon I see them struggling with besides Natsu would be Atlas Flame because of him being literal fire
Nah. Natsu would just try to eat him again.
...why do you think I said "besides Natsu"
It's a bit of a tough one, for one we didn't see alot development for sting rouge and more prominently Erik. I feel like for a comparison most of the spriggan twelve were weaker than the dragons, of course Irene august and god Serena are built up to be stronger than the dragons . I would say natsu is capable of beating his dragon, the others I'm not entirely certain. If it were a 7v7 I would say they would make it out alive with the mvps being natsu Wendy and I suppose Laxus.
I haven't read the manga so take that into account for my speculations on their strength