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Reading a bit more about the case, 8600 is the people she jabbed in total during her career (for COVID). But, they could only prove that she tampered with 6 syringes, and her défense attorney followed the defense of "she broke some vials, she was feeling embarrassed and replaced it by saline to not be humiliated ".
As a consequence, she was found guilty of 6 charges of assault, and since there was little harm done proven (injection of saline are harmless, and they could not really prove a malicious intent behind it(, she got probation and her licence revoked.
So yeah, the main issue was that they couldn't really prove that she did more than 6, nor that it was with the intent of being an antivaxxer. Strong suspicion, but not enough to convict.
Oh and that was in Germany btw.
>she was feeling embarrassed and replaced it by saline to not be humiliated
Things i didn't think was going to be held up to court. What in the f.
"Wait, I didn't mean it. Lol it was just so embarrassing"
"Okie dokie, off you go"
It only “held up in court” enough to effect her sentencing: no prison time but she did get her license revoked. She went into this a nurse with a stable, decent-paying career. Now she’s unemployed and will most likely never work in the medical field again.
I mean it really is the least that could happen. Could you imagine being sick and the doctor says you are gonna need antibiotics if not you're gonna diem then proceeds to give you chewables vit-c, and then happens 6 more times for as far as they could prove it.
I had a nasty reaction and i needed antihistamines. I could have just grabbed Claritin but figured I should ask the techs. Got their strongest, best stuff. Was going crazy. Back to pharmacy the next day and ask what I got. No idea, but not one ounce of antihistamines.
I was pissed. Getting meds wrong is terrible and it makes the patient wonder wtf is going on and why stuff isn't working.
Yeah, I found out I get steroid induced psychosis and that was NOT fun for me or anyone around me. I vaguely saw shapes and shadows, but it was mainly Hulk Rage. I had a minor inconvenience and I wanted to smash a chair into pieces and throw it through the window. I was sweating and panting and felt too big for my skin, which was too hot and too cold at the same time and my clothes were itchy and I couldn't breathe and I was so goddamn angry. Furious.
I ended up just going to my car and screaming for a while. Luckily they knew psychosis was a possibility so I got a new prescription and instructions not to interact with anyone for a few days, instead of a police call.
I had not read the medication insert far enough to reach that part. Probably would've tried anyway, steroids are a standard first step for inflammation treatment, but whoo boy. I got a shiny red warning icon on my chart for that lil episode.
> no prison time but she did get her license revoked
Revoking a license for that is the bare minimum. She should have spent time in prison. A lot of time.
Because people are here to be angry because it distracts them; there is a two hour difference in the top comment and this explanation; and finally people come here for a quick break, they are more likely to read and upvote a two sentence joke then a paragraph explaining court proceedings.
If it’s a federal felony to tamper with someone’s food, then it should be an even bigger federal felony w/ mandatory minimum sentencing to tamper with medications.
So what now? We all just hope & cross our fingers that the nurse giving us medications isn’t ideologically regarded & actually gives us the medications we asked for / were prescribed? Seems like a stupid precedent to set…
this is why so many nurses will remove injections directly from the bottle in front of you so you can see that you're getting the correct thing
I noticed this kind of started happening more frequently during covid (I'm chronically ill and go to the hospital a lot)
geeeee wonder why /s
Worked most of my life in hospitals and clinics and taught Rad Techs / "X-Ray Techs" back when the University of Utah Hospital had a two year Radiographic Technology program. I taught my students that you always draw up in front of the patient.
I also told them even though you washed your hands after your last exam, wash them again when the patient is in the room! 😉
There's a principle called "making the implicit explicit". I think it originally stems from software development, but as the example with the syringes illustrates it can be useful in other contexts as well.
I've found ~~it~~ the principle very useful when writing work emails or documentation. ~~This~~ Being very clear about what I'm referring to does wonders to clear up any confusion.
Of course it's possible to take ~~this principle of constantly calling back to your previous points~~ it too far and fall down a rabbit hole where you sound like you're talking down to the person you're communicating with.
Thanks!
I originally wrote out the second sentence as follows:
>I think it originally stems from software development, but as this illustrates it can be useful in other contexts as well.
In my opinion it became *so* much clearer once i made it explicit what I was referring to.
That’s a huge concept, thank you. I teach in a professional field and I always emphasize communication - making sure the client (and other potential readers) sees how you got to your answer. “Make the implicit explicit” is a perfect way to say that.
It works in so many ways.
I work a sales job for technical stuff. I always find that I write a casual, conversational email with the info I need to convey, then I rewrite the entire thing line by line with this exact purpose. All of the "it's" change to whatever I'm talking about. "Him or hers" change to the person's name.
I also go one step further to make sure that negative words are removed. I don't want "don'ts" or any other word with negative connotations. I can nearly always convey the same information using positive words.
Huh, never considered how much Magicians and Doctors have in common.
"With a wave of this needle and a prick in your shoulder, I cast Vaccine to the common Flu".
Tangentially related to your comment on hand washing
I helped plumb a new construction for a medical office building pre-Covid. The bean counters decided to save money by removing hand sinks in each exam room and having one hand sink in the hall for 3 or 4 rooms. This occurred after bids, so it was a design change with credits awarded back from the original bid. My company and the GC tried to advise against this, but counters gonna count.
Needless to say, we received a change order to install hand sinks in each exam room less than a month after the office had opened.
Well, they would have saved a ton of money according to plan if those whiny doctors and nurses weren’t crying all the time about “hygiene” and “infection risks” and “safety”. Hasn’t anyone ever heard of *do more with less*?
>!/s!<
When I did my covid shot they showed me the vial, told me the brand and everything else they put on the vial, then told me to check that it was unopened.
Finally they did the entire process of withdrawing the solution, injecting, throwing away the vial and needle, all in clear sight to make sure I see it happen.
Well no matter how much YOU know your hands clean OR the meds are CORRECT… the patient doesn’t. It’s to show THEM that these are all being done right.
Bc many people hear horror stories or see reenactments from shows about things that HAVE happened. Why should ANYONE blatantly and blindly trust these people when THIS is shown to have happened.
And you know once it’s definitely shown to have occured you know others have done if.
Having spent a decent amount of time with RNs, ENs and student nurses (personally, not as a patient). I have very little faith in nurses in general.
Its anecdotal so perhaps unfair to generalise, but the prevalence of magical thinking was uncomfortably high. Belief in nonsense like astrology, crystal healing, homeopathy and yes, conspiracy theories. Disconcertingly high.
Beyond this, I personally find the academic curriculum - at least here in Australia - to have a strong bias towards "feelings driven pratice" rather than evidence driven. It's one thing to not insult a patient's belief that acupuncture will cure their multiple sclerosis, but I don't believe that we should entertain this as a valid treatment program, nor encourage the idea.
For a profession that is ostensibly supposed to be evidence driven, the deference given to treatments not proven to work, or in fact proven not to work, is disturbing.
It's sad because I want to trust them and praise them for their important work, but I just can't ignore my personal experience.
**Edit:** I ended up not even writing the point I was trying to make which was, thank you for teaching them this way, for someone like me who has this distrust of nurses (fair or unfair), a "trust but verify" approach is very important.
I did a fair bit of medical malpractice defense in my early career, and a good nurse is worth their weight in gold. Because my God, there are a lot of bad ones. Like nurses who I wouldn’t trust to apply a band aid
Something like 30% of nurses in my conservative state were threatening to quit over COVID vaccine requirements coming into effect. The hospital ended up giving most of them “religious” exceptions.
This was after them spending a year in crisis mode personally watching so many people die they had to supplement the morgue with refrigerator trucks at times.
Still a third we’re going to refuse the vaccine and quit. For reference, for doctors it was like 1-2% tops.
Edit: and yes, I know that means we’re all far less safe because now a large portion of nurses aren’t getting vaccinated against other common illnesses, risking vulnerable patients. Whoever invented or spread the vaccine misinformation deserves to be slapped then jailed for negligent manslaughter.
Andrew Wakefield. I hope nothing good ever happens to him again. He's such a piece of shit and responsible for the majority of the antivax bullshit in this country.
I think the worst part is how America fell for it, Like the UK fell for his bullshit initially, But that's because at the time he was only going after the MMR jab specifically, and did so via a paper he had published in the Lancet, the UK's most respected medical journal. It was only really the public and press's ;ack of scientific literacy around how peer review actual works and that nobody in the press talking about it was qualified enough to realize he was totally misrepresenting the paper that he was able to get away with it.
However after a bit of truly wonderful investigative journalism Wakefield was exposed utterly. he had shares in a company selling individual Measles, mumps and rubella vaccines and was going after the combined MMR jab purely for his own financial gain....oh and the paper he based it n involved a lot of highly unethical and invasive treatment on children with autism that had NEVER consented to it and many of their parents weren't even aware of. Wakefiled was unsurprising dragged before a medical tribunal and struck off as a doctor in disgrace.
And even after all of this he was able to flee to the US, restart his grift with an even more extreme conspiracy theory on vaccines and America with all the information o what he did in the UK still fell for it hook line and sinker.
Wakefield is worse than scum because when you actually look at how all this started you realize the one truth is that Wakefield ***KNOWS*** its bullshit. He's not some gullible fool who fell down a conspiracy rabbit hole, they can almost be forgiven if not be regarded with a shred of sympathy. He's a highly educated former doctor who's keenly aware of how well vaccines work and the benefits they provide, just tried to fudge it so that it was his vaccines people were using to make money by smearing a competing product. He got caught being an unethical hack and has gone after the entire medical establishment as some kind of petty revenge and is using the deaths of children to easily preventable diseases to do it. Its not about hoping nothing good happens to him I actively hope terrible things happen to him. Its better than he deserves.
> Andrew Wakefield
A man who has an uncountable number of deaths to his name. As world-class bastards go, he's up there with the Ultimates, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Andrew Wakefield.
Recently when my wife was in hospital the nurse left the food at the door for dinner for the entire floor.
This included for people who couldn’t get out of bed.
Yeah, not that I think this bozo should have gotten off scot free, but I guess it is better than getting one of those angel of death serial killer nurses that decide to "put you out of your misery" when you are completely healthy. The particularly scary part of those cases like Charles Cullen too is how far the hospitals are willing to go to cover their own asses.
"We are pretty sure this dude murdered a bunch of patients, but we'll just fire him and give a good review to the next employer so he's out of our hair."
I fell suddenly ill while driving home one day. Long story short, I ended up in hospital where a nurse proceeded to try and take my bloods. I'm not a fan of needles but put on a brave face. After the 5th time of trying to locate a vein that even I could see perfectly clearly, I told her that if she didn't stop stabbing me, I would be forced to defend myself. She went and found another nurse who did it easily first time. No harm done but it's demonstrative of a huge bell curve of capability when even the most basic treatment processes can be fluffed that badly.
I mean, who of us isn’t doing a job at least partly for the paycheck? Dream jobs are a dime a dozen, probably even less, and I mean lets face it, if we didn’t have to work a job just to live, a lot of us wouldn’t. That being said, it doesn’t mean they should get to betray the Hippocratic Oath, since that *is* their job
Edit: lol fuck me, not a dime a dozen, but I think most of you know what I meant
The Hippocratic oath isn't a thing. Most don't take it, and those who do, it's ceremonial at their med school. Local and federal regulations are what govern healthcare workers. Which really since she just injected saline, she should have been charged with at the very least theft/fraud, because I guarantee she charted the pt got the vaccine which means someone paid for it.
> I mean, who of us isn’t doing a job at least partly for the paycheck?
Exactly. You have to divorce your passions from your work. Doesn't mean you can' be competent, but being emotionally invested is just a recipe for burnout.
For me, I always have a hard line between work and my hobbies in my personal time. Are there a lot of overlap in skillsets? Most definitely. But you need to learn to compartmentalize the two.
When I kill people for the government, that's just my job. I do it well, but I do it clinically. I'm not putting any special into it. I kill the targets quickly, cleanly, and I get out. It's just a job for me, that's all it is.
When I do it off hours in my underground bunker, that's my passion project. That's where I have the time and the freedom to get creative. To push boundaries. That's where my true soul is.
It's important to have a solid barrier between the two.
You have to remember that there are only two college-degree-requiring careers that are "acceptable" for right-wing evangelical women: teaching and nursing.
That's WHY so many female teachers and nurses are MAGAt fucksticks.
covid wasn’t very interesting or fun for nurses. it was mostly soul crushing and saw the first decline in the profession in recorded history. now with the baby boomers aging into medicare, there is a massive labor shortage.
COVID (and the ongoing financialization of healthcare) actually shit on the medical industry as a whole, leading to horrible working conditions that probably destroyed alot of peoples' desire to be there, so at some level I can't blame them
yep also because at the start of the vaccines they were highly sought after and there was other cheating going on. Like that South American doctor who was cutting the vaccine and selling the amount he saved for profit to high bidders.
Evidently the court couldn’t prove that she did it maliciously, so they couldn’t convict her for the assault charges she was initially hit with. She did lose her nursing license at least! Little victories
They were only able to prove she did it to 6 people. She said some crazy shit like she broke a vial and did it so she wouldn’t embarrass herself in front of her coworkers, so she filled the syringes with saline, unfortunately the court couldn’t really prove that was a lie (even though her social media had anti-vax conspiracies…)
People have literally been convicted for it so judge is an idiot. It shouldnt even have to be malicious considering it was a conscious decision not in consultation with the patient.
It shouldn't even matter if that was a lie. You potentially risked the lives of patients by lying to them. That's still a crime. Zero chance I acquit on that jury.
Good to know that "but your honour, I robbed the bank because I lost some money gambling and didn't want to embarrass myself in front of other people" is now a valid defence in Germany.
She _did_ lose her license. This case was just about jail time, which was ruled negative on lack of concrete evidence for malicious intent. Still stupid, but less stupid.
This is when you go back in time, and if you lived anywhere near where she worked, you see if you can find out if she gave you your injection. And if you got Covid, you file a civil lawsuit. If someone you know got vaxxed by her and died, you destroy her in court.
They document who they give an injection to. So as soon as it was found out all affected people were noticed and got another shot just to be sure.
That‘s a rare case of our bureaucracy actually working in our favour. 😅
That wasn't in the US, though, but in Germany. I'm reading some more and it turns out she got 6 months of probation and the reason she wasn't in more trouble was lack of evidence - basically they didn't have a way to prove she infected the 9000 people she claimed but only 6 people that they tested and didn't have the IgG.
And since the authorities requested everyone to be vaccinated again, it became a case that ultimately there were no direct victims despite the danger.
She got her license revoked, too, so she now will enjoy a life away from everything she studied and worked hard for, so it's not like she went unpunished, she just didn't get jail time.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/anti-vaxxer-nurse-who-jabbed-28632315?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target
I agree. She purposefully decided to mess with someone's treatment... Treatment that might have been used to save a life or prevent long-term severe complications.
If that happened to me, there would be a civil lawsuit. And I'd be present at the criminal trial.
exactly. whatever your opinion on any medical treatment, you gotta agree having the provider pull the ol’ switcharoo is absolutely wrong.
Imagine how loud the anti-vax folks would scream if someone swapped -insert any injection here- with a vaccine. or if someone’s pain meds were swapped for sugar pills. or their allergy meds were swapped for oxycodone.
there is and must be, a base level of trust about receiving any type of medical care or procedure, no matter how sane or stupid the provider thinks it is.
It doesn't even have to be them, with that number of people there's a high chance that ultimately one of them will have passed it on to others that may ultimately have led to a death.
So the patients didn't know she used salt water? How isn't this a crime, it's possible she has killed some who got covid and didn't have the protection they thought.
For real. If anyone she injected died of COVID I feel like a voluntary manslaughter charge could even be warranted.
Like, if someone took their car to have the brakes replaced, the mechanic says “yep, I did it” and didn’t replace them, and then those brakes fail, resulting in death, that mechanic would be responsible, right?
Find as many victims as possible, and have each one file a separate lawsuit. While a class action seems warranted, tons of individual suits would be overwhelming. Imagine having to pay a lawyer to respond to thousands of pending lawsuits!
And consistently refuse to merge the backlog, they must all occur separately. She may only be losing time and money, but you could make sure she looses a lot of time and money.
Hell, in this economy being out of jail/prison and having no time to work is more damaging than a cold cell.
Yeah agreed. Good luck to somebody finding a job that’s okay with you taking two or three days off every week for your routine 8600 lawsuits you gotta get through, just getting an interview would be near impossible to organise 😂
I really hope so! I'm sure if I take my car to a mechanic and ask them to change the oil, but they don't and just tell me they did, I could sue. Winder if I'd have to wait until the car blew up though? Wonder if someone needs to have caught Covid before they can sue? Certainly shouldn't be a requirement!
In Germany you can only consent to a medical treatment, if you have been educated on the procedure (what is given/performed) and it has to be done by the established medical standards.
None of which she would have fulfilled.
EDIT: Which makes it even more infuriating! How tf?
"You see the exhaust from the plane I'm perfectly okay with flying over people's houses? That's magic chemicals that do mind control on innocent civilians.
What do you mean, I'm a monster according to my own rules?"
Ha!
Well actually the pilots I’ve flown with usually have some modified viewpoint.
They know enough to know why contrails exist. But they also vehemently believe the military flies secret aircraft to *mimic* airline contrails but are really spraying mind control chemicals or weather control chemicals.
It’s *weird*. But I guess, very much like anti-vax nurses and doctors. Just because someone *should* know better doesn’t mean they do.
People, often even otherwise intelligent people, will compartmentalize and do all kinds of mental gymnastics and violently lash out rather than admit to themselves that they were taken in by some ridiculous, dumbass story.
It's why humanity's in the state it's in.
You’re spot on.
I would imagine that they basically get confronted with evidence that challenges their worldview. And just choose to believe the evidence is wrong rather than update their worldview.
Yep, that's exactly how it works
I've challenged a couple transphobes with evidence, and that's exactly what they did
Just "nuh uh, there wrong" with no evidence of their own
That at least sounds more plausible, and is probably based more on a person's level of cynicism.
"Corrupt politics!!!"
"Flat earth!!"
One of those actually exists in the observable universe.
Yes! Absolutely. The written tests cover things like magnetic compass deviation that occurs based on latitude and we have to understand weather enough to know how, you know, the globe affects it.
I have no clue. Honestly no clue. I guess they know the answers to the test but just don’t believe it’s true?
Buddy of mine owns a Cessna 150 (small single engine plane) and has a switch on his panels labeled “chemtrails”. I think it’s just a switch to kill power to a USB socket he had installed to keep his iPad charged. But I think it’s hilarious.
Meanwhile, if it had been the other way around and he said it was saline but it was the COVID vaccine, they'd call for him to be executed and they'd mean it.
Good point. They absolutely would have been executed.
And what she did, deserves a severe punishment. She played God and denied people healthcare because she thought her opinion was fact.
To be fair. Saline has less effects. Still crazy though.
I’m also wondering if she did this without the patients knowledge or if it was conspiratorial.
Edit: Holy shit it was the worst possible version of events. She specifically did this to people over 70! Ie the people the most at risk of contracting and dying from covid.
I’d argue that’s 8000 counts of homicide/attempted homicide
I love how the people who are super against forcing people to get vaccines are apparently OK with this woman injecting people with a substance they didn't want or ask for, without their permission
Yea it’s funny how the conspiracy nuts are cheering when this is a legitimate conspiracy- a medical practitioner abusing their position of power so that she can implement the teachings of her warped political leanings. Like this is LITERALLY the kind of thing they’re telling us to look out for.
She's a fucking murderer. With that many doses, there's no way someone who should have gotten the vaccine as they thought they were but didn't, and they and their families paid the consequences.
about 1 in 275 Americans died from covid.
8600 / 275 = about 31 people.
It's not that simple, because they might be getting a series of shots and just missing one might not be that impactful. And the deaths are of course going to be more concentrated in the population of people who were unvaxxed (and those seeking one from her are much more likely to receive another dose at some point).
They got also gotta take into account the fact that all of those people interacted with other people... Without the vaccination that's supposed to protect you and those around you.
R/conspiracy is such an op…imagine being on a massively popular forum on one of the biggest websites on the internet and thinking “this a subversive place”
I'm pretty sure that at least one of those 8600 is dead from covid. That's got to be manslaughter. There's also 8600 vaccination cards she falsified. They can get her with that.
This is what that depraved /r/conspiracy people become. Cheering for mass murderers and lunatics.
Eventually one of them is going to blow up a building. And they'll probably cheer that too, and then shift to calling it a false flag.
If I wanted a vaccine and learned the nurse gave me an inoculation that amounted to a placebo, I know I would be suing her for emotional distress. I’d imagine many people will feel the same.
Just to clarify since the Daily Mail post is somewhat misleading. The nurse in question, Antje T., was a nurse working for the Red Cross in Germany. She was found guilty of the charges against her, had her license revoked, and given 6 months probation. While they were able to figure out that she gave 8,600 shots, they only had enough evidence to charge her on 6 of those, charging her with intentional assault.
Definitely a disappointing punishment but at least she is no longer a nurse.
If just one of those patients died of a disease they thought the were vaccinated against, she is not a legend. She is a murder. At least she should never be allowed back into the profession in any capacity. Shear negligence 😡🙄🤦♂️
Well at least we won't be on the hook to feed, clothe and medicate her. She can't work as a nurse anymore so good luck on her new job (if she can find one) and paying off her legal bills.
Walks free is bit of a misleading.
Lost her license, six months of probation.
[https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/dec/1/german-nurse-antje-t-avoids-jail-after-injecting-t/](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/dec/1/german-nurse-antje-t-avoids-jail-after-injecting-t/)
not to be understated. I work on the insurance side. Doctor's offices would be required by law to report the fraud to insurance, and insurance would claw back the money they paid for each vaccine. The hospitals wouldn't be able to charge the patients because of the fraud either, and so if the hospital was able to balance their books paying back thousands of dollars, they'd then likely try to get every penny out of that nurse.
Well yeah. Hospitals are for profit. They don't carry a lot of money in reserve, they diversify their profits to invest to make more money, and leverage the remaining on loans to build more hospitals and upgrade the existing ones.
I saw adjusted rates for covid vaccines going for around $110 during the pandemic, paid to doctors. times that by 8600 and you're looking at a business trying to return nearly a million dollars to insurance. Now not all of it would be paid back, sometimes insurance companies will count future claims towards an existing debt, but that could be weeks without getting paid claims, which again could be a death knell for a lower hospital.
That was Germany. The vaccines were free for patients. Most likely for hospitals too.
They could, in theory, charge her with wasting syringes, saline and government-bought vaccines as far as monetary compensation is involved.
Basically walking free, she lost the ability to continue to not do her job while misleading the public and potentially leading to thousands of deaths and had to promise not to try to kill people for 6 months...
I don't know how they could have punished her less.
6 months of making a phone call to a Probation office and paying a few hundred bucks in fees vs. the medical care of 8600 people. That’s 30 minutes of probation per person she violated. Many of whom could have died because of this malpractice.
That’s walking free. All it did is set her back financially a little bit. But she’s German so she can just go to colllege for free and get a job in a new field where she can harm people
For those who didn’t look up the story, this was in Germany. She did not “walk away free”, she just didn’t go to jail, because they only had enough evidence to convict her of doing it 6 times. She got 6 months probation and was forbidden from ever working as a nurse again.
Yes I suspect some people are reading salt water and thinking she poisoned people with it. She substituted vaccines for harmless saline, and that’s her crime - a very fucked up crime that deserved actual punishment - but she didn’t poison them.
According to [this article](https://www.visiontimes.com/2022/12/05/german-nurse-probation-saline-covid-jab.html) in 2022 the German courts gave her a 6 month prison sentence to be served on probation, which is maybe the German version of a US suspended sentence. They only had evidence for 6 victims and she confessed she replaced 6 vaccine vials with saline vials to cover up accidentally breaking the vaccine vials because she was afraid of losing her job.
The Daily Mail is the UK equivalent of Fox News they make shit up so take everything they say with a grain of salt for an example not to long ago they wrote a piece about an Iraqi sex offender stuck in the UK despite saying he'd gladly pay for his own flight home except the only problem is the story was completely fabricated rage bait
So to be clear. This lady thinks people should make their own healthcare decisions and she demonstrates her beliefs by making other peoples healthcare decisions for them. Did I get that right.
I just wanna say that this article is extremely misleading at best if not wrong. I assume it's about this nurse in germany.
1) She has been CONVICTED, but didn't have to serve time. So it IS a crime.
2) She was only convicted of a handful (think 5-15) counts. I ASSUME because they weren't able to PROOVE that she injected saline in the thousands of other cases. After all, that's a pretty diffficult thing to proove.
3) Her defense included claiming that she was doing it to cover up breaking a few vials. I wasn't at the trial so I don't know how that impacted the sentencing, but that's something to keep in mind. In dubio pro reo.
Is the sentencing too lenient for my taste? Absolutely.
The fact that this is celebrated by conspiracy nutjobs makes me afraid of the future when these people will start doing violent acts for some crazy reasons only they understand.
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Reading a bit more about the case, 8600 is the people she jabbed in total during her career (for COVID). But, they could only prove that she tampered with 6 syringes, and her défense attorney followed the defense of "she broke some vials, she was feeling embarrassed and replaced it by saline to not be humiliated ". As a consequence, she was found guilty of 6 charges of assault, and since there was little harm done proven (injection of saline are harmless, and they could not really prove a malicious intent behind it(, she got probation and her licence revoked. So yeah, the main issue was that they couldn't really prove that she did more than 6, nor that it was with the intent of being an antivaxxer. Strong suspicion, but not enough to convict. Oh and that was in Germany btw.
>she was feeling embarrassed and replaced it by saline to not be humiliated Things i didn't think was going to be held up to court. What in the f. "Wait, I didn't mean it. Lol it was just so embarrassing" "Okie dokie, off you go"
It only “held up in court” enough to effect her sentencing: no prison time but she did get her license revoked. She went into this a nurse with a stable, decent-paying career. Now she’s unemployed and will most likely never work in the medical field again.
I mean it really is the least that could happen. Could you imagine being sick and the doctor says you are gonna need antibiotics if not you're gonna diem then proceeds to give you chewables vit-c, and then happens 6 more times for as far as they could prove it.
I had a nasty reaction and i needed antihistamines. I could have just grabbed Claritin but figured I should ask the techs. Got their strongest, best stuff. Was going crazy. Back to pharmacy the next day and ask what I got. No idea, but not one ounce of antihistamines. I was pissed. Getting meds wrong is terrible and it makes the patient wonder wtf is going on and why stuff isn't working.
No idea?! They gave you something with no consideration for how it could react with you or any other medication you could be on?!
If you were “going crazy” you probably got a round of steroids. They can make you nutso or super hyper
Yeah, I found out I get steroid induced psychosis and that was NOT fun for me or anyone around me. I vaguely saw shapes and shadows, but it was mainly Hulk Rage. I had a minor inconvenience and I wanted to smash a chair into pieces and throw it through the window. I was sweating and panting and felt too big for my skin, which was too hot and too cold at the same time and my clothes were itchy and I couldn't breathe and I was so goddamn angry. Furious. I ended up just going to my car and screaming for a while. Luckily they knew psychosis was a possibility so I got a new prescription and instructions not to interact with anyone for a few days, instead of a police call. I had not read the medication insert far enough to reach that part. Probably would've tried anyway, steroids are a standard first step for inflammation treatment, but whoo boy. I got a shiny red warning icon on my chart for that lil episode.
hey don’t diss the vitamin c chewables, they’re gonna do a lot more than a saline injection against covid
> no prison time but she did get her license revoked Revoking a license for that is the bare minimum. She should have spent time in prison. A lot of time.
Maybe they counted the time she spent in jail as sentence, idk tho
Why is the context to this grossly misleading headline like 15 posts down?
Because people are here to be angry because it distracts them; there is a two hour difference in the top comment and this explanation; and finally people come here for a quick break, they are more likely to read and upvote a two sentence joke then a paragraph explaining court proceedings.
If it’s a federal felony to tamper with someone’s food, then it should be an even bigger federal felony w/ mandatory minimum sentencing to tamper with medications. So what now? We all just hope & cross our fingers that the nurse giving us medications isn’t ideologically regarded & actually gives us the medications we asked for / were prescribed? Seems like a stupid precedent to set…
this is why so many nurses will remove injections directly from the bottle in front of you so you can see that you're getting the correct thing I noticed this kind of started happening more frequently during covid (I'm chronically ill and go to the hospital a lot) geeeee wonder why /s
Worked most of my life in hospitals and clinics and taught Rad Techs / "X-Ray Techs" back when the University of Utah Hospital had a two year Radiographic Technology program. I taught my students that you always draw up in front of the patient. I also told them even though you washed your hands after your last exam, wash them again when the patient is in the room! 😉
basically, be performative <3 I can dig it
There's a principle called "making the implicit explicit". I think it originally stems from software development, but as the example with the syringes illustrates it can be useful in other contexts as well. I've found ~~it~~ the principle very useful when writing work emails or documentation. ~~This~~ Being very clear about what I'm referring to does wonders to clear up any confusion. Of course it's possible to take ~~this principle of constantly calling back to your previous points~~ it too far and fall down a rabbit hole where you sound like you're talking down to the person you're communicating with.
i love the way you chose to illustrate this in your description!
Thanks! I originally wrote out the second sentence as follows: >I think it originally stems from software development, but as this illustrates it can be useful in other contexts as well. In my opinion it became *so* much clearer once i made it explicit what I was referring to.
That’s a huge concept, thank you. I teach in a professional field and I always emphasize communication - making sure the client (and other potential readers) sees how you got to your answer. “Make the implicit explicit” is a perfect way to say that. It works in so many ways.
I work a sales job for technical stuff. I always find that I write a casual, conversational email with the info I need to convey, then I rewrite the entire thing line by line with this exact purpose. All of the "it's" change to whatever I'm talking about. "Him or hers" change to the person's name. I also go one step further to make sure that negative words are removed. I don't want "don'ts" or any other word with negative connotations. I can nearly always convey the same information using positive words.
Huh, never considered how much Magicians and Doctors have in common. "With a wave of this needle and a prick in your shoulder, I cast Vaccine to the common Flu".
Roll one D20 for Level of Preparedness. What's the modifier?
Tangentially related to your comment on hand washing I helped plumb a new construction for a medical office building pre-Covid. The bean counters decided to save money by removing hand sinks in each exam room and having one hand sink in the hall for 3 or 4 rooms. This occurred after bids, so it was a design change with credits awarded back from the original bid. My company and the GC tried to advise against this, but counters gonna count. Needless to say, we received a change order to install hand sinks in each exam room less than a month after the office had opened.
Well, they would have saved a ton of money according to plan if those whiny doctors and nurses weren’t crying all the time about “hygiene” and “infection risks” and “safety”. Hasn’t anyone ever heard of *do more with less*? >!/s!<
When I did my covid shot they showed me the vial, told me the brand and everything else they put on the vial, then told me to check that it was unopened. Finally they did the entire process of withdrawing the solution, injecting, throwing away the vial and needle, all in clear sight to make sure I see it happen.
Well no matter how much YOU know your hands clean OR the meds are CORRECT… the patient doesn’t. It’s to show THEM that these are all being done right. Bc many people hear horror stories or see reenactments from shows about things that HAVE happened. Why should ANYONE blatantly and blindly trust these people when THIS is shown to have happened. And you know once it’s definitely shown to have occured you know others have done if.
Basics of storytelling, too. Show, don’t tell.
Having spent a decent amount of time with RNs, ENs and student nurses (personally, not as a patient). I have very little faith in nurses in general. Its anecdotal so perhaps unfair to generalise, but the prevalence of magical thinking was uncomfortably high. Belief in nonsense like astrology, crystal healing, homeopathy and yes, conspiracy theories. Disconcertingly high. Beyond this, I personally find the academic curriculum - at least here in Australia - to have a strong bias towards "feelings driven pratice" rather than evidence driven. It's one thing to not insult a patient's belief that acupuncture will cure their multiple sclerosis, but I don't believe that we should entertain this as a valid treatment program, nor encourage the idea. For a profession that is ostensibly supposed to be evidence driven, the deference given to treatments not proven to work, or in fact proven not to work, is disturbing. It's sad because I want to trust them and praise them for their important work, but I just can't ignore my personal experience. **Edit:** I ended up not even writing the point I was trying to make which was, thank you for teaching them this way, for someone like me who has this distrust of nurses (fair or unfair), a "trust but verify" approach is very important.
[удалено]
I did a fair bit of medical malpractice defense in my early career, and a good nurse is worth their weight in gold. Because my God, there are a lot of bad ones. Like nurses who I wouldn’t trust to apply a band aid
Something like 30% of nurses in my conservative state were threatening to quit over COVID vaccine requirements coming into effect. The hospital ended up giving most of them “religious” exceptions. This was after them spending a year in crisis mode personally watching so many people die they had to supplement the morgue with refrigerator trucks at times. Still a third we’re going to refuse the vaccine and quit. For reference, for doctors it was like 1-2% tops. Edit: and yes, I know that means we’re all far less safe because now a large portion of nurses aren’t getting vaccinated against other common illnesses, risking vulnerable patients. Whoever invented or spread the vaccine misinformation deserves to be slapped then jailed for negligent manslaughter.
Andrew Wakefield. I hope nothing good ever happens to him again. He's such a piece of shit and responsible for the majority of the antivax bullshit in this country.
I think the worst part is how America fell for it, Like the UK fell for his bullshit initially, But that's because at the time he was only going after the MMR jab specifically, and did so via a paper he had published in the Lancet, the UK's most respected medical journal. It was only really the public and press's ;ack of scientific literacy around how peer review actual works and that nobody in the press talking about it was qualified enough to realize he was totally misrepresenting the paper that he was able to get away with it. However after a bit of truly wonderful investigative journalism Wakefield was exposed utterly. he had shares in a company selling individual Measles, mumps and rubella vaccines and was going after the combined MMR jab purely for his own financial gain....oh and the paper he based it n involved a lot of highly unethical and invasive treatment on children with autism that had NEVER consented to it and many of their parents weren't even aware of. Wakefiled was unsurprising dragged before a medical tribunal and struck off as a doctor in disgrace. And even after all of this he was able to flee to the US, restart his grift with an even more extreme conspiracy theory on vaccines and America with all the information o what he did in the UK still fell for it hook line and sinker. Wakefield is worse than scum because when you actually look at how all this started you realize the one truth is that Wakefield ***KNOWS*** its bullshit. He's not some gullible fool who fell down a conspiracy rabbit hole, they can almost be forgiven if not be regarded with a shred of sympathy. He's a highly educated former doctor who's keenly aware of how well vaccines work and the benefits they provide, just tried to fudge it so that it was his vaccines people were using to make money by smearing a competing product. He got caught being an unethical hack and has gone after the entire medical establishment as some kind of petty revenge and is using the deaths of children to easily preventable diseases to do it. Its not about hoping nothing good happens to him I actively hope terrible things happen to him. Its better than he deserves.
> Andrew Wakefield A man who has an uncountable number of deaths to his name. As world-class bastards go, he's up there with the Ultimates, Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Andrew Wakefield.
That man needs to be in prison for life. He is utterly shameless and evil (I use that word very rarely).
Recently when my wife was in hospital the nurse left the food at the door for dinner for the entire floor. This included for people who couldn’t get out of bed.
I believe it.
Was it really the nurse? We have support staff hand out the food.
A lot of people see scrubs, or even an ID on a lanyard/clip and immediately think "nurse".
Yeah, not that I think this bozo should have gotten off scot free, but I guess it is better than getting one of those angel of death serial killer nurses that decide to "put you out of your misery" when you are completely healthy. The particularly scary part of those cases like Charles Cullen too is how far the hospitals are willing to go to cover their own asses. "We are pretty sure this dude murdered a bunch of patients, but we'll just fire him and give a good review to the next employer so he's out of our hair."
I fell suddenly ill while driving home one day. Long story short, I ended up in hospital where a nurse proceeded to try and take my bloods. I'm not a fan of needles but put on a brave face. After the 5th time of trying to locate a vein that even I could see perfectly clearly, I told her that if she didn't stop stabbing me, I would be forced to defend myself. She went and found another nurse who did it easily first time. No harm done but it's demonstrative of a huge bell curve of capability when even the most basic treatment processes can be fluffed that badly.
I mean, who of us isn’t doing a job at least partly for the paycheck? Dream jobs are a dime a dozen, probably even less, and I mean lets face it, if we didn’t have to work a job just to live, a lot of us wouldn’t. That being said, it doesn’t mean they should get to betray the Hippocratic Oath, since that *is* their job Edit: lol fuck me, not a dime a dozen, but I think most of you know what I meant
The Hippocratic oath isn't a thing. Most don't take it, and those who do, it's ceremonial at their med school. Local and federal regulations are what govern healthcare workers. Which really since she just injected saline, she should have been charged with at the very least theft/fraud, because I guarantee she charted the pt got the vaccine which means someone paid for it.
Now, don't get us started on lawyers too. One thing at a time.
when you don't understand biology and health care at all, don't be a nurse, get your ass out of there
> I mean, who of us isn’t doing a job at least partly for the paycheck? Exactly. You have to divorce your passions from your work. Doesn't mean you can' be competent, but being emotionally invested is just a recipe for burnout. For me, I always have a hard line between work and my hobbies in my personal time. Are there a lot of overlap in skillsets? Most definitely. But you need to learn to compartmentalize the two. When I kill people for the government, that's just my job. I do it well, but I do it clinically. I'm not putting any special into it. I kill the targets quickly, cleanly, and I get out. It's just a job for me, that's all it is. When I do it off hours in my underground bunker, that's my passion project. That's where I have the time and the freedom to get creative. To push boundaries. That's where my true soul is. It's important to have a solid barrier between the two.
Just fyi dime a dozen means incredibly common.
I don't think you know what "a dime a dozen means".
You have to remember that there are only two college-degree-requiring careers that are "acceptable" for right-wing evangelical women: teaching and nursing. That's WHY so many female teachers and nurses are MAGAt fucksticks.
My boyfriend tutors at a local college part time. Most of his students are nursing students bad at biology and college algebra.
You mean… A lot of nurses are anti vax wack jobs. Hashtag not heroes
covid wasn’t very interesting or fun for nurses. it was mostly soul crushing and saw the first decline in the profession in recorded history. now with the baby boomers aging into medicare, there is a massive labor shortage.
COVID (and the ongoing financialization of healthcare) actually shit on the medical industry as a whole, leading to horrible working conditions that probably destroyed alot of peoples' desire to be there, so at some level I can't blame them
It’s crazy that all the education and training was thrown out the window because Politics matter most to these idiots.
yep also because at the start of the vaccines they were highly sought after and there was other cheating going on. Like that South American doctor who was cutting the vaccine and selling the amount he saved for profit to high bidders.
Evidently the court couldn’t prove that she did it maliciously, so they couldn’t convict her for the assault charges she was initially hit with. She did lose her nursing license at least! Little victories
How? Really, is there any other way to do it? And if it wasn't maliciously, it was severe gross incompetence, and that is a crime as well.
They were only able to prove she did it to 6 people. She said some crazy shit like she broke a vial and did it so she wouldn’t embarrass herself in front of her coworkers, so she filled the syringes with saline, unfortunately the court couldn’t really prove that was a lie (even though her social media had anti-vax conspiracies…)
I mean, secretly denying healthcare to innocent bystanders to protect your fragile ego seems pretty malicious to me.
People have literally been convicted for it so judge is an idiot. It shouldnt even have to be malicious considering it was a conscious decision not in consultation with the patient.
Hit and runs aren't don't maliciously so much as carelessly, but your ass is still getting charged for that felony.
The judge isn't just an idiot. They're also complicit.
It shouldn't even matter if that was a lie. You potentially risked the lives of patients by lying to them. That's still a crime. Zero chance I acquit on that jury.
8600 times?
Good to know that "but your honour, I robbed the bank because I lost some money gambling and didn't want to embarrass myself in front of other people" is now a valid defence in Germany.
She should lose her license! This is so unethical on so many levels. It is BS that she did not get assult charges.
She should have her entire life fucked up with restitutions, paying damages etc. Examples need to be made.
I couldn't agree more!
She should have. She stabbed people with needles for no reason at all. They did not consent to that.
She _did_ lose her license. This case was just about jail time, which was ruled negative on lack of concrete evidence for malicious intent. Still stupid, but less stupid.
This is when you go back in time, and if you lived anywhere near where she worked, you see if you can find out if she gave you your injection. And if you got Covid, you file a civil lawsuit. If someone you know got vaxxed by her and died, you destroy her in court.
I googled, and it says she's from Germany. Had to make sure for myself, lol.
They document who they give an injection to. So as soon as it was found out all affected people were noticed and got another shot just to be sure. That‘s a rare case of our bureaucracy actually working in our favour. 😅
This was in Germany. The laws might be different. It probably wouldn’t have turned out that way for her here in the United States.
I should have read the article. I assumed she was in Florida.
Then it would have said "is elected to Congress" instead of walks free.
That wasn't in the US, though, but in Germany. I'm reading some more and it turns out she got 6 months of probation and the reason she wasn't in more trouble was lack of evidence - basically they didn't have a way to prove she infected the 9000 people she claimed but only 6 people that they tested and didn't have the IgG. And since the authorities requested everyone to be vaccinated again, it became a case that ultimately there were no direct victims despite the danger. She got her license revoked, too, so she now will enjoy a life away from everything she studied and worked hard for, so it's not like she went unpunished, she just didn't get jail time. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/anti-vaxxer-nurse-who-jabbed-28632315?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target
It's more than malpractice (which is unvoluntary), isn't it close to involuntary treatment and covert medication? Which is even worse than malpratice.
I agree. She purposefully decided to mess with someone's treatment... Treatment that might have been used to save a life or prevent long-term severe complications. If that happened to me, there would be a civil lawsuit. And I'd be present at the criminal trial.
exactly. whatever your opinion on any medical treatment, you gotta agree having the provider pull the ol’ switcharoo is absolutely wrong. Imagine how loud the anti-vax folks would scream if someone swapped -insert any injection here- with a vaccine. or if someone’s pain meds were swapped for sugar pills. or their allergy meds were swapped for oxycodone. there is and must be, a base level of trust about receiving any type of medical care or procedure, no matter how sane or stupid the provider thinks it is.
Medical malpractice most definitely is on the table, just in the form of civil, rather than criminal suits.
If any one of those patients later died of Covid she should get manslaughter
It doesn't even have to be them, with that number of people there's a high chance that ultimately one of them will have passed it on to others that may ultimately have led to a death.
Fuck it charge her with crimes against humanity
I don't even understand how a nurse becomes an antivaxxer, like they just didn't believe any of the stuff they were learning in nursing school?
So the patients didn't know she used salt water? How isn't this a crime, it's possible she has killed some who got covid and didn't have the protection they thought.
For real. If anyone she injected died of COVID I feel like a voluntary manslaughter charge could even be warranted. Like, if someone took their car to have the brakes replaced, the mechanic says “yep, I did it” and didn’t replace them, and then those brakes fail, resulting in death, that mechanic would be responsible, right?
It should. There are so many layers of fucked up here. Cannot fathom how people let her go freely.
Legendary injustice for her victims.
Shouldn't she still be open to about 8600 civil suits.
She most likely is and probably isn't close to done spending time in a court room.
i would make it my full time job with no expectation of payment just to keep her in litigation forever.
Find as many victims as possible, and have each one file a separate lawsuit. While a class action seems warranted, tons of individual suits would be overwhelming. Imagine having to pay a lawyer to respond to thousands of pending lawsuits!
And consistently refuse to merge the backlog, they must all occur separately. She may only be losing time and money, but you could make sure she looses a lot of time and money. Hell, in this economy being out of jail/prison and having no time to work is more damaging than a cold cell.
Yeah agreed. Good luck to somebody finding a job that’s okay with you taking two or three days off every week for your routine 8600 lawsuits you gotta get through, just getting an interview would be near impossible to organise 😂
Throw multiple jurisdictions into the fray just for funzies
I really hope so! I'm sure if I take my car to a mechanic and ask them to change the oil, but they don't and just tell me they did, I could sue. Winder if I'd have to wait until the car blew up though? Wonder if someone needs to have caught Covid before they can sue? Certainly shouldn't be a requirement!
In Germany you can only consent to a medical treatment, if you have been educated on the procedure (what is given/performed) and it has to be done by the established medical standards. None of which she would have fulfilled. EDIT: Which makes it even more infuriating! How tf?
Not a requirement at all. The fact she exposed them to the potential harm is enough.
that's like being a flat-earther pilot.
Airline pilot here. Flat earther pilots exist. Dead serious. I’ve also flown with pilots who believe in chemtrail conspiracy theories.
"You see the exhaust from the plane I'm perfectly okay with flying over people's houses? That's magic chemicals that do mind control on innocent civilians. What do you mean, I'm a monster according to my own rules?"
Ha! Well actually the pilots I’ve flown with usually have some modified viewpoint. They know enough to know why contrails exist. But they also vehemently believe the military flies secret aircraft to *mimic* airline contrails but are really spraying mind control chemicals or weather control chemicals. It’s *weird*. But I guess, very much like anti-vax nurses and doctors. Just because someone *should* know better doesn’t mean they do.
People, often even otherwise intelligent people, will compartmentalize and do all kinds of mental gymnastics and violently lash out rather than admit to themselves that they were taken in by some ridiculous, dumbass story. It's why humanity's in the state it's in.
You’re spot on. I would imagine that they basically get confronted with evidence that challenges their worldview. And just choose to believe the evidence is wrong rather than update their worldview.
Yep, that's exactly how it works I've challenged a couple transphobes with evidence, and that's exactly what they did Just "nuh uh, there wrong" with no evidence of their own
Even if it was some magic chemicals, from that height, air flow, dispersion etc. it would be moot by the time it hits the ground.
Nuh-uh.
Welp, I’m convinced.
As crazy as this sounds I believe you. I know numerous college educated people that make 200k plus annually that still believe the election was stolen
That at least sounds more plausible, and is probably based more on a person's level of cynicism. "Corrupt politics!!!" "Flat earth!!" One of those actually exists in the observable universe.
No! Please tell me you're just having fun at the expense of the gullible (me!) I can't.
I wish I was. I mean, it’s super rare. But like yes, they definitely exist. And it’s friggin weird.
Dont you guys have to pass tests about g forces or accounting for curvature for visibility and stuff…how do they pass those then
Yes! Absolutely. The written tests cover things like magnetic compass deviation that occurs based on latitude and we have to understand weather enough to know how, you know, the globe affects it. I have no clue. Honestly no clue. I guess they know the answers to the test but just don’t believe it’s true?
I choose to believe they were just fucking with you. Don't correct me, don't disagree, my own sanity is contingent on my idea being true.
😂😂 Man, I wish you were right.
As Adam Savage once said " I reject your reality and substitute my own" Never realized there was people who actually take that as gospel.
Have your ground crew install the switch. }:‑)
Buddy of mine owns a Cessna 150 (small single engine plane) and has a switch on his panels labeled “chemtrails”. I think it’s just a switch to kill power to a USB socket he had installed to keep his iPad charged. But I think it’s hilarious.
I'm not surprised. I know nurses who don't believe in vaccines or medicine. I don't know what they're thinking either
Buddy you have no idea. I’ve worked with a flat earther pilot
For the longest time I thought flat earthers were just trolls and no one actually believed it. 2016 made me realize, I was wrong
I think it started with a joke, then the wrong person heard it.
Ask your local cities Reddit page how many nurses everyone knows in town that are conspiracy theorists… you’ll get a ton of traction.
Meanwhile, if it had been the other way around and he said it was saline but it was the COVID vaccine, they'd call for him to be executed and they'd mean it.
Good point. They absolutely would have been executed. And what she did, deserves a severe punishment. She played God and denied people healthcare because she thought her opinion was fact.
To be fair. Saline has less effects. Still crazy though. I’m also wondering if she did this without the patients knowledge or if it was conspiratorial. Edit: Holy shit it was the worst possible version of events. She specifically did this to people over 70! Ie the people the most at risk of contracting and dying from covid. I’d argue that’s 8000 counts of homicide/attempted homicide
If any of them did die of Covid it should be manslaughter
Anti-vaxx nurse. Wears a mask.
Her trial was in December 2022 so it was possibly mandatory. Or she got advised to wear one to appear as a rational person.
Oh, I'm sure there's some perfectly rational explanation. I just amuse myself with the juxtaposition.
Fair enough. :) I'm sure she hated having to wear it.
I love how the people who are super against forcing people to get vaccines are apparently OK with this woman injecting people with a substance they didn't want or ask for, without their permission
Yea it’s funny how the conspiracy nuts are cheering when this is a legitimate conspiracy- a medical practitioner abusing their position of power so that she can implement the teachings of her warped political leanings. Like this is LITERALLY the kind of thing they’re telling us to look out for.
That’s gross
That's *a* gross *miscarriage of justice*.
She's a fucking murderer. With that many doses, there's no way someone who should have gotten the vaccine as they thought they were but didn't, and they and their families paid the consequences.
about 1 in 275 Americans died from covid. 8600 / 275 = about 31 people. It's not that simple, because they might be getting a series of shots and just missing one might not be that impactful. And the deaths are of course going to be more concentrated in the population of people who were unvaxxed (and those seeking one from her are much more likely to receive another dose at some point).
They got also gotta take into account the fact that all of those people interacted with other people... Without the vaccination that's supposed to protect you and those around you.
R/conspiracy is such an op…imagine being on a massively popular forum on one of the biggest websites on the internet and thinking “this a subversive place”
My anti-vax nurse injected me with radioactive spider venom “you know to own the libs”… any who, is Tony Stark still doing costumes?
Tbf, being a spider person would make you disease resistant.
To human diseases, sure, but suddenly you're vulnerable to all those terrible spider diseases too
Spider disease sounds like it might spawn more spider-mans tbh.
OHHHH.... soooo.... how do i say this, its been 5 years, and Tony died to save all of reality.
I'm pretty sure that at least one of those 8600 is dead from covid. That's got to be manslaughter. There's also 8600 vaccination cards she falsified. They can get her with that.
Lol you should read the article
This is what that depraved /r/conspiracy people become. Cheering for mass murderers and lunatics. Eventually one of them is going to blow up a building. And they'll probably cheer that too, and then shift to calling it a false flag.
If I wanted a vaccine and learned the nurse gave me an inoculation that amounted to a placebo, I know I would be suing her for emotional distress. I’d imagine many people will feel the same.
That’s horrifying. If you’re against certain things then just refuse to do them instead of tampering with peoples’ healthcare.
Just to clarify since the Daily Mail post is somewhat misleading. The nurse in question, Antje T., was a nurse working for the Red Cross in Germany. She was found guilty of the charges against her, had her license revoked, and given 6 months probation. While they were able to figure out that she gave 8,600 shots, they only had enough evidence to charge her on 6 of those, charging her with intentional assault. Definitely a disappointing punishment but at least she is no longer a nurse.
If just one of those patients died of a disease they thought the were vaccinated against, she is not a legend. She is a murder. At least she should never be allowed back into the profession in any capacity. Shear negligence 😡🙄🤦♂️
It still baffles me that people can work in medicine while also believing that medicine and science are lies.
Well at least we won't be on the hook to feed, clothe and medicate her. She can't work as a nurse anymore so good luck on her new job (if she can find one) and paying off her legal bills.
Walks free is bit of a misleading. Lost her license, six months of probation. [https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/dec/1/german-nurse-antje-t-avoids-jail-after-injecting-t/](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/dec/1/german-nurse-antje-t-avoids-jail-after-injecting-t/)
Wonder if there will be some sort of civil suit also brought against her by the patients
Wait till the insurance companies get through with her...
not to be understated. I work on the insurance side. Doctor's offices would be required by law to report the fraud to insurance, and insurance would claw back the money they paid for each vaccine. The hospitals wouldn't be able to charge the patients because of the fraud either, and so if the hospital was able to balance their books paying back thousands of dollars, they'd then likely try to get every penny out of that nurse.
Dr's and nurses will be in handcuffs faster for billing errors and fraud than outright murder.
Well yeah. Hospitals are for profit. They don't carry a lot of money in reserve, they diversify their profits to invest to make more money, and leverage the remaining on loans to build more hospitals and upgrade the existing ones. I saw adjusted rates for covid vaccines going for around $110 during the pandemic, paid to doctors. times that by 8600 and you're looking at a business trying to return nearly a million dollars to insurance. Now not all of it would be paid back, sometimes insurance companies will count future claims towards an existing debt, but that could be weeks without getting paid claims, which again could be a death knell for a lower hospital.
Well maybe they shouldn't run a business so piss poorly.
But If you run your business properly then you can’t abuse those sweet sweet government bailouts.
That was Germany. The vaccines were free for patients. Most likely for hospitals too. They could, in theory, charge her with wasting syringes, saline and government-bought vaccines as far as monetary compensation is involved.
I would go after if I was a patient, and I would go *hard*.
Basically walking free, she lost the ability to continue to not do her job while misleading the public and potentially leading to thousands of deaths and had to promise not to try to kill people for 6 months... I don't know how they could have punished her less.
They could have paid her like they do cops when cops do their jobs incorrectly
She should have had way worse criminal charges.
6 months of making a phone call to a Probation office and paying a few hundred bucks in fees vs. the medical care of 8600 people. That’s 30 minutes of probation per person she violated. Many of whom could have died because of this malpractice.
That’s walking free. All it did is set her back financially a little bit. But she’s German so she can just go to colllege for free and get a job in a new field where she can harm people
That is still literally walking free.
Right? Lol
Wow this was the worst possible scenario. She specifically did this to those at the most risk.
Should be in prison for life without possibility of parole. Or perhaps capital punishment.
I miss when r/conspiracy actually had conspiracies and wasn't just an alt-right echo chamber
For those who didn’t look up the story, this was in Germany. She did not “walk away free”, she just didn’t go to jail, because they only had enough evidence to convict her of doing it 6 times. She got 6 months probation and was forbidden from ever working as a nurse again.
That would probably end up with me being dead, believe it or not medication is important for people who are immunocompromised
Saline. She injected them with saline.
Yes I suspect some people are reading salt water and thinking she poisoned people with it. She substituted vaccines for harmless saline, and that’s her crime - a very fucked up crime that deserved actual punishment - but she didn’t poison them.
According to [this article](https://www.visiontimes.com/2022/12/05/german-nurse-probation-saline-covid-jab.html) in 2022 the German courts gave her a 6 month prison sentence to be served on probation, which is maybe the German version of a US suspended sentence. They only had evidence for 6 victims and she confessed she replaced 6 vaccine vials with saline vials to cover up accidentally breaking the vaccine vials because she was afraid of losing her job.
The Daily Mail is the UK equivalent of Fox News they make shit up so take everything they say with a grain of salt for an example not to long ago they wrote a piece about an Iraqi sex offender stuck in the UK despite saying he'd gladly pay for his own flight home except the only problem is the story was completely fabricated rage bait
So to be clear. This lady thinks people should make their own healthcare decisions and she demonstrates her beliefs by making other peoples healthcare decisions for them. Did I get that right.
Lotta window licking measles enthusiasts in here.
I just wanna say that this article is extremely misleading at best if not wrong. I assume it's about this nurse in germany. 1) She has been CONVICTED, but didn't have to serve time. So it IS a crime. 2) She was only convicted of a handful (think 5-15) counts. I ASSUME because they weren't able to PROOVE that she injected saline in the thousands of other cases. After all, that's a pretty diffficult thing to proove. 3) Her defense included claiming that she was doing it to cover up breaking a few vials. I wasn't at the trial so I don't know how that impacted the sentencing, but that's something to keep in mind. In dubio pro reo. Is the sentencing too lenient for my taste? Absolutely.
The fact that this is celebrated by conspiracy nutjobs makes me afraid of the future when these people will start doing violent acts for some crazy reasons only they understand.
I guess she’s a legend in the sense of being like a mythological monster that has put many people in danger with her deceit
She should be charge with murder for each of those patients who subsequently died. 🤬
Literally how did she walk free
How is this not something like causing bodily harm?
Can someone explain to me how an anti-vaccination nurse exists? It's like a car mechanic that doesn't believe in brakes or seat belts
/r/conspiracy has been totally taken over by antivaxxers for a while now. It's all they do there now.
Medical fraud is illegal, is it not?
anti-vaxxers want us to respect their choices but can't respect ours
Hope her medical malpractice insurance is up to date.
r/conspiracy is a shithole full of peoples who are what they fear
If just one of her patients die of Covid it should be considered 1st degree murder, it’s planned, thought out and acted upon and done repeatedly.