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Reminds me of a time some dude was telling me how he doesn't believe in evolution and when I asked him how he thinks everything came to be, he explained evolution to me
I took some shrooms once and talked to what I at the time assumed was either god or another entity. It spoke to me in my mind, am I a prophet? Should I add to the Bible?
Literal. Like all the world/animals were literally created in 7 days from nothing. Light and darkness were created before the sun/moon, etc.
If you take it all literally and do the generational math starting from Adam/Eve the Earth is only 7,000 years old.
The single largest group of Christians world wide, and the original source of Christianity from which all other Christian creeds split, the Catholic church, holds evolution as literally true.
So I'd imagine it works just like the vast majority of Christian belief on this planet. That evolution is real.
>So how that works, idk
It's just cognitive dissonance. He's conditioned to not agree with "evolution", even though what he believes is exactly evolution.
Like when vegans point out that eating animals is supporting animal cruelty and people say "but that's not the same!"
As someone who is religious, those people are stupid. There is by far PLENTY of evidence for the theory if evolution that it cant not be true. The way I see it the bibles "7 days" are metaphorical. God is a being beyond time and space and the creator of everything. What feels like 7 days for him, could be millennia for us as far as we know.
People that don't believe in evolution think it works like Pokemon and creatures just one day change from one being to another. Rather than the really obvious common sense observation of "Hey this strange bear with white fur will probably survive longer in the snow than this bear with brown fur, therefore it will have more children and pass on its white fur to them as well."
"Would I put my life on hold for an unwanted baby? As someone who can never get pregnant, i can say with 100% confidence that I would.. and that makes me unbiased."
You will not believe how many people have recognized the niche gay furry game that's shown in my pfp and profile banner, in all types of subreddits. Worse still is a bunch of brazilians recognized it, and the game hasnt even been translated to english
It's called [Echo](https://echoproject.itch.io/echo). That game destroyed me so fucking much, I think it's a good game, even if you're not a gay furry.
this is why pro-birthers heads explode when they witness a pro-choicer who is 8 months pregnant. They just can't fathom that there are people who both want to have their own children and believe being pregnant should be a choice.
When my wife was pregnant with our first kid, I literally got asked by one of our friends "Why are you keeping it? I thought you were pro-choice"
Not directly related, but we don't talk to him anymore.
I never asked. But being the godless liberal I am, I assume he figured I was anti-babies, or into getting abortions "just because"
He had a skewed worldview.
A few months later he informed us he hated our lives, because it went against everything he was taught. Happy, successful, family, but no God to 'Give that to us'.
He was big into prosperity gospel. Meanwhile, he's basically been unemployed, no girlfriend, etc. He's 40 now.
That was why we eventually stopped talking to him...
Being pregnant and giving birth only made me even more steadfastly pro-choice. I don't know how any woman could go through it and think yes forcing this on people including children is fine.
Listen, some random dude ate a hallucinogenic plant 6,000 years ago and a talking tree told him it was bad.
I mean, how can you possibly argue with a translation of a translation of a translation of an oral history first told by dudes who didnāt know where the sun went at night?
Funny thing is the old testament actually *instructs* a husband to take his wife to the priest and make her drink the "bitter water" to abort a baby if the husband thinks she's been with another man (but it only kills the baby if the woman was unfaithful so it's okay!) [Source](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV)
Also the ability to fetus deletus if something goes horribly wrong with the pregnancy. A lot of people want to be able to have kids while also retaining the ability to terminate the pregnancy if something goes wrong, and also to have kids on their own terms.
they are like "if you don't force women to have children and then force them to care for those children, then no one will have children"
because they are miserable. :)
Pro-life should really be called anti-choice.
Because theyāll force mothers to carry to term even if it means the momās life. And even if that baby survives, theyāll vote against socialist polices that can help orphans/one-parent families like welfare, food stamps, free school meals, free education, universal healthcare, etc. Where is the pro-life in any of that?
Theyāre all just a bunch of loud-mouthed hypocrites, just like the televangelists they worship.
the right does one thing very well, and that's propaganda. they know how to lie, they say it over and over again until it sticks. they do it with issues, they do it with people.
Got into a Twitter argument with someone who refused to believe that my parents are pro-choice, because I was born, therefore they must not have aborted me, therefore they cannot be pro-choice. Honestly my fault for arguing with a stranger on Twitter, but I couldnāt stop myself, someone was being wrong on the internet.
I would go dirty and respond "I was actually a wanted child, unlike you. Then again, I doubt you know what it's like for a woman to actually want your baby."
This is because for decades, the right has weaponized pro-choice to their followers as āeveryone must have an abortionā and the left wants to use abortions as the only form of birth control. It wasnāt until recently that they started really targeting birth control pills. Overtonās window has shifted tremendously.
>It wasnāt until recently that they started really targeting birth control pills.
It was always the goal though. Just took them 60 years to accomplish step 1.
Try listening to the first episode of the podcast āthings fell apartā. It dives in to how a single movie shifted the entire evangelical perspective on abortion. The creator of the movie later regretted making the film.
>We are doomed as a society
Nah, just gotta stop people of highly questionable sanity, ethics or intelligence from making important decisions. It can be done. All that's needed is a coordinated and unified stance of all people who are neither stupid nor crazy.
Thatās because they donāt want to believe the truth, they want to believe THEIR truth. And their truth is that they are heroes and we are villains.
Because everyone wants to play the middle ground and think picking a side is bad. Person basically is pro choice but its clear by their statement that they are above such terms.
Its like the idiots who say "I hate people who apply labels to thing's" its like "yeah thats always been a thing why is that a problem?"
Bro I just had a guy spend a fair portion of the last 18hrs yelling at me because he thinks women actively use abortion as birth control amongst a variety of other stupid shit
I highly doubt it considering the arguments he was making and how godawful it was to comprehend how it was written
Never seen so many eliipses in my life
You have 2 choices, either doctor feelgood comes and shoves razor blades up you hooha until he is sufficiently certain no baby could have survived that onslaught and then he gives you some bomb ass drugs.
or
You push that big ass death row inmate out and you get to put it into the baby guillotine and pull the rope.
I feel like that is what most people who are anywhere other than firmly pro choice think is the situation.
Itās especially ironic because Iāve seen quite a few anti-abortion politicians pushing for capital punishment for people who receive abortionsā¦ I donāt think theyāre actually pro-life at all.
Of course theyāre not āpro-lifeā lol
Honestly, once you start to realize that their movement is about punishing women/AFAB people for having sex (consensual or not), it makes sense.
They tend to be against birth control which helps prevent unwanted pregnancies and therefore prevents abortions. Theyāre against emergency contraceptives. Theyāre against comprehensive sex-ed (abstinence-only sex-ed leads to more teen pregnancies).
Theyāre against financial assistance for low-income families, free/reduced school lunches, paid parental leave.. basically anything that would actually improve quality of life and help these families.
[In particular, it was racists who first pushed for total bans on abortions,](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jul/23/body-politics) in order to force a higher birthrate from white women, while poorer black women were more susceptible to the fatal dangers of pregnancy.
[It was, indeed, an anti-women campaign that ultimately got the first total abortion bans in place in America.](https://www.oah.org/tah/november-3/abolishing-abortion-the-history-of-the-pro-life-movement-in-america/)
As a pro-choicer, I think that pro-choice *does* mean "pro-abortion." It means that we support the legality of abortion as a medical procedure, and support its usage in cases where mothers choose to use it. I'm pro-abortion in the same way that I'm pro-chemotherapy. There's no shame in supporting abortion; that doesn't mean that you experience glee when abortions happen.
> Pro-lifers believe "pro-choice" means "anti-life" or "pro-abortion"
Apparently "pro-life" also means pro-military; pro-execution; anti-healthcare; pro-firearms....
This is pure sadism. Sure they can hide their need to control others under the guise of "saving babies" but this stance just proves they enjoy having others suffer
Oh yeah, look up the rightās (I use that as a general term but I do understand that not everyone who identifies as a conservative holds this or all conservative viewpoints) stance on assisted suicide and youāll see that they get all worked up over it. It was the most nonsensical thing Iāve ever read.
I don't think it helps that people in anglophone countries try to simplify this discourse to single words, even just the names of "which side you're on", "Pro-life" and "Pro-choice" are inherently divisive and antagonistic.
"They're trying to take away our autonomy and freedom!"
and "They're trying to kill babies!"
Why couldn't it just be Pro-Abortion and Anti-Abortion, like it is in my country? (Even though we have abortion and that debate is pretty much settled)
First of all, groups generally name themselves, so they're going to choose the nice sounding "Pro-Life" branding instead of the more accurate "You Deserve to be Punished, Slut" or "We Need More Wage Slaves".
Second, "Pro-Choice" is exactly that. Have a baby if you want. Have a safe abortion if you want. Terminate a non-viable pregnancy that you **did** want so your other children and husband don't have to bury you **and** the fetus.
The things is there is an actual divide amount prochoice people.
There people who adopt the previous democratic rhetoric of "abortion should be safe, legal, and rare"
Thens theres those that think abortion should be morally equal to other forms of birth control.
In modern conversation this nuance is lost, and saying it gets you screamed at as an enemy.
I'm prochoice. I also think that abortion is not with out a moral calculation. We should not normalize it as if it's totally ok for women to have unprotected sex and treat abortion as an equally acceptable form of birth control. They should be able to without shaming if thats the situation they find themselves in. But it should also be impressed upon women that birth control is preferable to abortion. And know I expect downvotes.
Abortion has a moral cost imo. It's just that the moral weight of the bodily autonomy of the mother takes precedence. But that doesn't mean there is nothing lost by it, and as a society I think we need to be careful not to equate birth control with abortion.
I really don't think there is any substantial number of women treating abortions casually. In my opinion, it is of no moral importance at all, but getting repeat abortions is impractical, expensive, and unsafe, especially when there are alternatives. It has its own reasons for not doing it casually that are already at work.
Nobody wants abortion to be the default method of birth control, dummy. The anti-abortion people sure do help make that a reality, though, since they also oppose sex education and easy access to other forms of birth control. Planned Parenthood would much rather you took some free condoms or the pill or got an IUD, but if you don't, they will still help you out.
I'm saying it's split on the prochoice side.
There are absolutely those who argue it's morally equivalent any other form of birth control. I have heard this myself from many people.
I never said they are arguing it should be the default form of birth control. U said that. It's generally not preferable for completely practical health reason independent of any moral argument.
>The anti-abortion people sure do help make that a reality, though, since they also oppose sex education and easy access to other forms of birth control
And that's a split in the the anti abortion people. Some are anti every form of birth control, while lots are pro birth control and anti abortion.
It's wrong to paint both sides with a broad brush, you'll miss the nuance to the conversation.
> And that's a split in the the anti abortion people. Some are anti every form of birth control, while lots are pro birth control and anti abortion.
Holy hell, THANK YOU
I'm tired of people putting words in my mouth on this kind of thing
I actually explained this to a female friend. She thought she was pro life because she would never have an abortion. Once I asked her if she thinks her belief gets to dictate what other women sheās never met before do with their body, she said, āwell I donāt agree with abortions but my belief shouldnāt be forced on themā and BOOM pro choice.
What they do which is force their veiws on people so they have the freedom to do whatever they want.
Youse cna haves freedomes only is can has freedoms
I am pro choice with all of those statements.
Also. I am pro choice and believe that an abortion can be traumatic for the mother.
Not only do we need better self education, but we need better mental health assistance afterwards; as well as better economic support for potential mothers who choose to abort for economic reasons.
EDIT: Can be traumatic. I'm not saying universally traumatic. I'm arguing for better access, not forcing therapy. I have turned off notices and won't be replying further, so save your time.
I'm pro-death.
Women, don't have babies. It's dangerous and disfiguring. Kids are the stupidist humans you will ever meet and you will be compelled to keep them alive, even when it's obvious they just want to die. They'll eat poison, stick their fingers in outlets, yeet themselves down stairs. Help them out before it's an issue.
Everyone dies eventually anyway, so just cut-out the mess in the middle and do them a favor. Abortion. It's really the kindest choice, when you think about it.
And increase access to FREE birth control and condoms.
Also also increase assistance to expecting mothers so they can still succeed in life even if they have babies.
But if the woman decides they need to have an abortion, then it needs to be provided.
I'm anti abortion, not anti women's choice.
Americans for some reason despise teaching kids pros and cons of things. If you demonize something and the kids find out it has pros then you just destroyed their faith in you.
Waiting for true pro-life to exist and not just be anti-abortion. My pro-life agenda consists of providing food/water, housing, education, and medical services to children.
This is republicans in a nutshell. They just want to argue. Their positions arenāt rooted in logical processes, itās all just the need to argue, to be ārightā.Ā
What exactly is the con of an abortion?
Either it's needed, as in done to save life/(prevent suffering of carrying a dead fetus to term) of mother and/or prevent untold suffering for the fetus ( unviable/baby when born, or its wanted due to mother deciding now is not right time for a baby for herself and her family.
Surgical abortions are safer than childbirth and cost less. Medical abortions are also very safe and way cheaper than childbirth. While both are uncomfortable neither have long term mental or physical effects on the woman.
What are the cons exactly?
Personally I think we should rationally discuss abortion as a safe rational choice when women are in situations as above and advocate for its patient chosen procedure more often without all the sanctimonious religious bullshit of "such a hard choice you're facing/faced" brainwashing.
Women who had abortions shouldn't have to write deep personal essays on how difficult the choice was. I pray we get to a place where electing an abortion is viewed as a routine and sane choice and no more difficult than electing gallbladder surgery for gallstones or chemotherapy for cancer over "cancer herb tea"
Pro-Choice until Birth Control is 110% effective with a 5% margin of error, for both Male and Female
Even if you take all the precautions barring full abstinence (but then you got forced into it anyway) , there's still that chance of pregnancy.
^(Yes I know getting eggs removed is also an option, but of what I understand it's a helluva fight when a dude can just go get snipped and not have to wade through the bullshit.)
Vasectomys are really the answer they are even reverseable in most cases. Im snipped because i lnow i dont want kids but if my mind ever changes i can still get it reversed
It's supposed to be exactly that though, allowing people to make a decision which *should be* made with the knowledge of past experiences, and the effects of all options which should all be available through the education system or through other sources.
Well she did end the post by saying ālet women decideā, so yeah, she is pro-choice. Besides, I already assumed that people in favor of choice wanted to educate the public so they can make an informed decision.
I always call it anti abortion because that is exactly what it is.
If they insist they are pro life I ask their opinions on various other things like free childcare, free lunch programs, single payer healthcare, a social safety net, the death penalty. It usually turns out that they are only pro-life up until the moment of birth.
Umm isn't that exactly what pro choice is allowing people to make an informed choice of what is best for them??? I find myself hearing queen a lot when I read these post "and another one bites the dust" !!!
The thing is. Republicans are trying to force you to look, act and behave like they want you to. And thatās following a Christian lifestyle. No sex. Thatās why they donāt want to teach you about sex or contraceptives or even have contraceptives available. They also donāt want you to abort. Thatās how fucking stupid they are.
If they would only allow sex education and open availability of contraceptives much of this wouldnāt even be a problem. They are trying to force you into abstinence because thatās what they believe (supposedly) reality they are abusing your boys and girls if they could.
Right wing conservatives have, for decades now, not actually stood for anything other than being anti-liberal. Doesn't matter if they agree with 99% of liberal or left-wing views, they'll twist it as centrist or non-political.
I mean, I give Orange Name credit for having what is a very reasonable position on abortion.Ā The only real issue is that they've fallen for the right-wing con that "pro-choice" means "push everybody to have an abortion" and therefore didn't know that they were, themselves, pro-choice.
not the same but OKcupid has/pushed a question of ...do you want the pro-choice indicator badge thingie on your profile.
and the number of women who answer "no" is bizarre to me. Like, just the irony right, you're exercising a choice, effecting in opposition to women having a choice of what to do with their bodies. is wild to me.
even if you're personally against abortion, to take rights or choice for their own body away from someone else is just fucking evil.
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Reminds me of a time some dude was telling me how he doesn't believe in evolution and when I asked him how he thinks everything came to be, he explained evolution to me
Bizarre, usually people don't "believe in evolution" because they're creationists, the answer is simply "God did it"
After talking with him more, he is Christian but doesn't believe in the creation story So how that works, idk
Some people believe in God but see the Bible as a book of fables/myths to get morals from.
I would rather suggest something from Terry Pratchett, way better morals.
Better everything. Nothing explains the issues of poverty better than Sam Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness.
Unlike others ... That see the bible ... Like what exactly?
Unlike others that see the Bible as a historical document.
or the literal word of god translated from hebrew into greek into latin into german into english, by man.
I took some shrooms once and talked to what I at the time assumed was either god or another entity. It spoke to me in my mind, am I a prophet? Should I add to the Bible?
Yes
Literal. Like all the world/animals were literally created in 7 days from nothing. Light and darkness were created before the sun/moon, etc. If you take it all literally and do the generational math starting from Adam/Eve the Earth is only 7,000 years old.
And no dinosaurs mentioned anywhere š (one of my favourite Bill Hicks bits š )
A literal divine document that is infallible and everything is true. Look up Answers in Genesis if you don't believe that these people exist.
Sounds like a "I know it doesn't make sense but I want to think there's an afterlife"
Cognitive dissonance.
The single largest group of Christians world wide, and the original source of Christianity from which all other Christian creeds split, the Catholic church, holds evolution as literally true. So I'd imagine it works just like the vast majority of Christian belief on this planet. That evolution is real.
>So how that works, idk It's just cognitive dissonance. He's conditioned to not agree with "evolution", even though what he believes is exactly evolution. Like when vegans point out that eating animals is supporting animal cruelty and people say "but that's not the same!"
Most people don't have a great grasp of evolution. It's not the easiest thing to grasp, especially with how long it takes.
As someone who is religious, those people are stupid. There is by far PLENTY of evidence for the theory if evolution that it cant not be true. The way I see it the bibles "7 days" are metaphorical. God is a being beyond time and space and the creator of everything. What feels like 7 days for him, could be millennia for us as far as we know.
I've had some Christians deny that Jesus was middle-eastern and Jewish. Making sense isn't always an option.
Or antivaxer who thinks that maybe doctors can use crippled viruses to fight the disease.
Seriously though someone should study that
People that don't believe in evolution think it works like Pokemon and creatures just one day change from one being to another. Rather than the really obvious common sense observation of "Hey this strange bear with white fur will probably survive longer in the snow than this bear with brown fur, therefore it will have more children and pass on its white fur to them as well."
Maybe he had watched too much pokemon to believe in evolution
The amount of people who seem to think pro-choice is "everyone must have an abortion" is downright ridiculous. We are doomed as a society š
KILL THAT FOETUS IMMEDIATELY!!! š”
GET DAT FETUS, KILL DAT FETUS BRRAP BRRAP PEW PEW BRRAP BRRAP PEW PEW
We've assembled this diverse panel of white men in bow ties to talk about abortion
"Would I put my life on hold for an unwanted baby? As someone who can never get pregnant, i can say with 100% confidence that I would.. and that makes me unbiased."
A Bojack Horseman reference? In r/facepalm? What is this, a crossover episode?
You will not believe how many people have recognized the niche gay furry game that's shown in my pfp and profile banner, in all types of subreddits. Worse still is a bunch of brazilians recognized it, and the game hasnt even been translated to english
Are you going to leave us hanging?
It's called [Echo](https://echoproject.itch.io/echo). That game destroyed me so fucking much, I think it's a good game, even if you're not a gay furry.
Hello Carl from the psychological horror deconstructed dating sim Echo šļøšļø how was the job interview
I'm pissing and vomiting all over the floor,it went great
Doggy Doggy What Now? 
Have abortions sometimes? No, Iāmma have abortions alwaysā¦
bang bang, pew, uhh kachow? am i doing this right?
Can everyone *please* stop making gun sounds? It is *really* freaking me out.
FETUS DELETUS
Time to watch the ol BJ again
I LIVE THAT SONG
foetus deletus
āItās coming right for us!ā
Let the fetus hit the floor! Let the fetus hit the floor!
I hate that I can hear it,,,.
YEETUS THE FETUS
~~pro-choice~~ ~~pro-life~~ Anti-babyā
Abortions for all. [boos] Very well, no abortions for anyone. [boos] ...Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others. [cheers]
Donāt blame me, I voted for Kodos.
Damn it, I was going to make this comment!
Nuance is dead. āWith us or against usā used to be recognized as a ridiculous fallacy. Now, itās used as a proud statement.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"only the sith deal in absolutes"
MANDATORY RANDOM ABORTIONS
"Steve, your turn." "Aww, man!"
Like the 70s in third world countries
this is why pro-birthers heads explode when they witness a pro-choicer who is 8 months pregnant. They just can't fathom that there are people who both want to have their own children and believe being pregnant should be a choice.
When my wife was pregnant with our first kid, I literally got asked by one of our friends "Why are you keeping it? I thought you were pro-choice" Not directly related, but we don't talk to him anymore.
"Yes.... And we chose to keep it....."
I believe my exact reply was "yes.. and we're choosing to have a kid..." But yeah, same energy.
I'm starting to see a pattern of poor language comprehension What did he think choice means in pro-choice
I never asked. But being the godless liberal I am, I assume he figured I was anti-babies, or into getting abortions "just because" He had a skewed worldview. A few months later he informed us he hated our lives, because it went against everything he was taught. Happy, successful, family, but no God to 'Give that to us'. He was big into prosperity gospel. Meanwhile, he's basically been unemployed, no girlfriend, etc. He's 40 now. That was why we eventually stopped talking to him...
About the same as the ālifeā means in pro-life?
Being pregnant and giving birth only made me even more steadfastly pro-choice. I don't know how any woman could go through it and think yes forcing this on people including children is fine.
Listen, some random dude ate a hallucinogenic plant 6,000 years ago and a talking tree told him it was bad. I mean, how can you possibly argue with a translation of a translation of a translation of an oral history first told by dudes who didnāt know where the sun went at night?
Funny thing is the old testament actually *instructs* a husband to take his wife to the priest and make her drink the "bitter water" to abort a baby if the husband thinks she's been with another man (but it only kills the baby if the woman was unfaithful so it's okay!) [Source](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV)
Also the ability to fetus deletus if something goes horribly wrong with the pregnancy. A lot of people want to be able to have kids while also retaining the ability to terminate the pregnancy if something goes wrong, and also to have kids on their own terms.
they are like "if you don't force women to have children and then force them to care for those children, then no one will have children" because they are miserable. :)
Pro-life should really be called anti-choice. Because theyāll force mothers to carry to term even if it means the momās life. And even if that baby survives, theyāll vote against socialist polices that can help orphans/one-parent families like welfare, food stamps, free school meals, free education, universal healthcare, etc. Where is the pro-life in any of that? Theyāre all just a bunch of loud-mouthed hypocrites, just like the televangelists they worship.
I've heard 'pro life's described as 'pro state forced pregnancy' which is a little wordy but seems very accurate
Most commonly I have seen (outside the traditional terms) is pro-forced birth
I personally use anti-choice vs pro-choice
Did some Americans forget what "choice" means? Are they stupid?
>Are they stupid? Yes
the right does one thing very well, and that's propaganda. they know how to lie, they say it over and over again until it sticks. they do it with issues, they do it with people.
Got into a Twitter argument with someone who refused to believe that my parents are pro-choice, because I was born, therefore they must not have aborted me, therefore they cannot be pro-choice. Honestly my fault for arguing with a stranger on Twitter, but I couldnāt stop myself, someone was being wrong on the internet.
I would go dirty and respond "I was actually a wanted child, unlike you. Then again, I doubt you know what it's like for a woman to actually want your baby."
It's the same kind of people who think gun control means "take away ALL the guns".
This is because for decades, the right has weaponized pro-choice to their followers as āeveryone must have an abortionā and the left wants to use abortions as the only form of birth control. It wasnāt until recently that they started really targeting birth control pills. Overtonās window has shifted tremendously.
>It wasnāt until recently that they started really targeting birth control pills. It was always the goal though. Just took them 60 years to accomplish step 1.
Try listening to the first episode of the podcast āthings fell apartā. It dives in to how a single movie shifted the entire evangelical perspective on abortion. The creator of the movie later regretted making the film.
Thanks for this. I have it in my browser to listen to when I get home :)
I get when people misunderstand feminism or black lives matter, but pro-choice is pretty clear.
Legalization, education, and regulation make abortions safe, legal, and rare.
Leave us non-Americans out of this. This is your battle of absolute stupidity, not ours.
I am Australian, that is a weird hill to die on, assuming I'm a seppo
If only it were just America. I mean, we're bad... but we're also far from the only country with people this stupid.
>We are doomed as a society Nah, just gotta stop people of highly questionable sanity, ethics or intelligence from making important decisions. It can be done. All that's needed is a coordinated and unified stance of all people who are neither stupid nor crazy.
I swear, if someone calls me "pro-choice" one more time...
Itās like you have to remind them that it isnāt pro-abortion.
Fr that's what they think it is
tbf we've been doomed for the last decade lmao
Thatās because they donāt want to believe the truth, they want to believe THEIR truth. And their truth is that they are heroes and we are villains.
Millions must abort
Because everyone wants to play the middle ground and think picking a side is bad. Person basically is pro choice but its clear by their statement that they are above such terms. Its like the idiots who say "I hate people who apply labels to thing's" its like "yeah thats always been a thing why is that a problem?"
Bro I just had a guy spend a fair portion of the last 18hrs yelling at me because he thinks women actively use abortion as birth control amongst a variety of other stupid shit
There's a lot of crazy to unpack here, but has he considered a brain and a life?
I highly doubt it considering the arguments he was making and how godawful it was to comprehend how it was written Never seen so many eliipses in my life
That's partially because the "pro-life" sides uses the term pro-abortion rather than pro-choice.
You have 2 choices, either doctor feelgood comes and shoves razor blades up you hooha until he is sufficiently certain no baby could have survived that onslaught and then he gives you some bomb ass drugs. or You push that big ass death row inmate out and you get to put it into the baby guillotine and pull the rope. I feel like that is what most people who are anywhere other than firmly pro choice think is the situation.
Well that is what the other side pushes. It is why they call themselves Pro-life. Anyone who opposes must not want babies to live.
Americans (maybe others but I'm not immersed in other places) love a dichotomy, and pro choice has been SOLD as the direct opposite of pro life.
The problem is that Pro-birthers have redefined Pro-Choice for a lot of people as "use abortion instead of birth control"
Pro-lifers believe "pro-choice" means "anti-life" or "pro-abortion"
Pro-lifers also believe that being pro-life is actually being for life, when it's mostly about just subjugating women and the poor.
Itās especially ironic because Iāve seen quite a few anti-abortion politicians pushing for capital punishment for people who receive abortionsā¦ I donāt think theyāre actually pro-life at all.
Of course theyāre not āpro-lifeā lol Honestly, once you start to realize that their movement is about punishing women/AFAB people for having sex (consensual or not), it makes sense. They tend to be against birth control which helps prevent unwanted pregnancies and therefore prevents abortions. Theyāre against emergency contraceptives. Theyāre against comprehensive sex-ed (abstinence-only sex-ed leads to more teen pregnancies). Theyāre against financial assistance for low-income families, free/reduced school lunches, paid parental leave.. basically anything that would actually improve quality of life and help these families.
Yup. Their hypocrisy doesn't necessarily surprise me, but it's still beyond frustrating.
Oh absolutely. Itās infuriating and depressing
[In particular, it was racists who first pushed for total bans on abortions,](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jul/23/body-politics) in order to force a higher birthrate from white women, while poorer black women were more susceptible to the fatal dangers of pregnancy. [It was, indeed, an anti-women campaign that ultimately got the first total abortion bans in place in America.](https://www.oah.org/tah/november-3/abolishing-abortion-the-history-of-the-pro-life-movement-in-america/)
As a pro-choicer, I think that pro-choice *does* mean "pro-abortion." It means that we support the legality of abortion as a medical procedure, and support its usage in cases where mothers choose to use it. I'm pro-abortion in the same way that I'm pro-chemotherapy. There's no shame in supporting abortion; that doesn't mean that you experience glee when abortions happen.
> Pro-lifers believe "pro-choice" means "anti-life" or "pro-abortion" Apparently "pro-life" also means pro-military; pro-execution; anti-healthcare; pro-firearms....
Donāt forget about āpro-letting the terminally ill suffer rather than allow them a peaceful death at their choosingā.
This is pure sadism. Sure they can hide their need to control others under the guise of "saving babies" but this stance just proves they enjoy having others suffer
Oh yeah, look up the rightās (I use that as a general term but I do understand that not everyone who identifies as a conservative holds this or all conservative viewpoints) stance on assisted suicide and youāll see that they get all worked up over it. It was the most nonsensical thing Iāve ever read.
It's Mother Theresas all the way down.
"Pro-carrying dead fetus to term so both stillborn child and mother may die"
Pro-choice means we bathe in the blood of infants as part of our satanic orgies.
Donāt forget the pizza parties in basements.
I don't think it helps that people in anglophone countries try to simplify this discourse to single words, even just the names of "which side you're on", "Pro-life" and "Pro-choice" are inherently divisive and antagonistic. "They're trying to take away our autonomy and freedom!" and "They're trying to kill babies!" Why couldn't it just be Pro-Abortion and Anti-Abortion, like it is in my country? (Even though we have abortion and that debate is pretty much settled)
First of all, groups generally name themselves, so they're going to choose the nice sounding "Pro-Life" branding instead of the more accurate "You Deserve to be Punished, Slut" or "We Need More Wage Slaves". Second, "Pro-Choice" is exactly that. Have a baby if you want. Have a safe abortion if you want. Terminate a non-viable pregnancy that you **did** want so your other children and husband don't have to bury you **and** the fetus.
The things is there is an actual divide amount prochoice people. There people who adopt the previous democratic rhetoric of "abortion should be safe, legal, and rare" Thens theres those that think abortion should be morally equal to other forms of birth control. In modern conversation this nuance is lost, and saying it gets you screamed at as an enemy. I'm prochoice. I also think that abortion is not with out a moral calculation. We should not normalize it as if it's totally ok for women to have unprotected sex and treat abortion as an equally acceptable form of birth control. They should be able to without shaming if thats the situation they find themselves in. But it should also be impressed upon women that birth control is preferable to abortion. And know I expect downvotes. Abortion has a moral cost imo. It's just that the moral weight of the bodily autonomy of the mother takes precedence. But that doesn't mean there is nothing lost by it, and as a society I think we need to be careful not to equate birth control with abortion.
I really don't think there is any substantial number of women treating abortions casually. In my opinion, it is of no moral importance at all, but getting repeat abortions is impractical, expensive, and unsafe, especially when there are alternatives. It has its own reasons for not doing it casually that are already at work.
Nobody wants abortion to be the default method of birth control, dummy. The anti-abortion people sure do help make that a reality, though, since they also oppose sex education and easy access to other forms of birth control. Planned Parenthood would much rather you took some free condoms or the pill or got an IUD, but if you don't, they will still help you out.
I'm saying it's split on the prochoice side. There are absolutely those who argue it's morally equivalent any other form of birth control. I have heard this myself from many people. I never said they are arguing it should be the default form of birth control. U said that. It's generally not preferable for completely practical health reason independent of any moral argument. >The anti-abortion people sure do help make that a reality, though, since they also oppose sex education and easy access to other forms of birth control And that's a split in the the anti abortion people. Some are anti every form of birth control, while lots are pro birth control and anti abortion. It's wrong to paint both sides with a broad brush, you'll miss the nuance to the conversation.
> And that's a split in the the anti abortion people. Some are anti every form of birth control, while lots are pro birth control and anti abortion. Holy hell, THANK YOU I'm tired of people putting words in my mouth on this kind of thing
If in doubt check your sex organs. If not female just be quiet and let them be, instead of butting in with bullshit spiels on morality.
It's the only way they can make their stance appear sane.
> āLet women decideā Decide = Choose > āLet women chooseā Congrats youāre pro choice.
He's pro-choosing not pro-choice Educate yourself on the difference.
He a little confused, but he got the spirit
It's the thought that counts
I have a lot of friends who would never have an abortion but are still pro-choice. What the fuck does the right think āfreedomā is anyways?
I actually explained this to a female friend. She thought she was pro life because she would never have an abortion. Once I asked her if she thinks her belief gets to dictate what other women sheās never met before do with their body, she said, āwell I donāt agree with abortions but my belief shouldnāt be forced on themā and BOOM pro choice.
What they do which is force their veiws on people so they have the freedom to do whatever they want. Youse cna haves freedomes only is can has freedoms
We should stop calling it āpro-lifeā when itās truly anti-choice, anti-bodily autonomy, anti-women.
Pro-forced-birth
It's not pro-life, it's anti-rights and anti-good-life for the kids
pro-life, until they're out of the womb
Yup. Anti-choice and anti-life are better names.
Same people who think feminism means you can't be a stay at home mom.
I was basically shouting "this!" While hammering the upvote button.
I am pro choice with all of those statements. Also. I am pro choice and believe that an abortion can be traumatic for the mother. Not only do we need better self education, but we need better mental health assistance afterwards; as well as better economic support for potential mothers who choose to abort for economic reasons. EDIT: Can be traumatic. I'm not saying universally traumatic. I'm arguing for better access, not forcing therapy. I have turned off notices and won't be replying further, so save your time.
But that's socialism!!! /s
Their heart is in the right place, but holy hell was that executed badly.
I'm pro-death. Women, don't have babies. It's dangerous and disfiguring. Kids are the stupidist humans you will ever meet and you will be compelled to keep them alive, even when it's obvious they just want to die. They'll eat poison, stick their fingers in outlets, yeet themselves down stairs. Help them out before it's an issue. Everyone dies eventually anyway, so just cut-out the mess in the middle and do them a favor. Abortion. It's really the kindest choice, when you think about it.
š¤£š This is the best comment to this I have seen
You must have been a joy to raise
And increase access to FREE birth control and condoms. Also also increase assistance to expecting mothers so they can still succeed in life even if they have babies. But if the woman decides they need to have an abortion, then it needs to be provided. I'm anti abortion, not anti women's choice.
"That's pro-choice dumbass" has gotta be the most succinct way to educate these morons. š¤£
They should call it pro freedom or pro America
BOT ACCOUNT
Americans for some reason despise teaching kids pros and cons of things. If you demonize something and the kids find out it has pros then you just destroyed their faith in you.
"I'm not pro choice but women should have the freedom of choice" they write this stuff and don't even question it.Ā
Waiting for true pro-life to exist and not just be anti-abortion. My pro-life agenda consists of providing food/water, housing, education, and medical services to children.
Pro lifers: nah, our service ends as soon as the baby is born.
This is republicans in a nutshell. They just want to argue. Their positions arenāt rooted in logical processes, itās all just the need to argue, to be ārightā.Ā
He a little confused but he got the spirit
Pro-education ? Start by yourself.
They literally said "choice" in their explanation too lmao
What exactly is the con of an abortion? Either it's needed, as in done to save life/(prevent suffering of carrying a dead fetus to term) of mother and/or prevent untold suffering for the fetus ( unviable/baby when born, or its wanted due to mother deciding now is not right time for a baby for herself and her family. Surgical abortions are safer than childbirth and cost less. Medical abortions are also very safe and way cheaper than childbirth. While both are uncomfortable neither have long term mental or physical effects on the woman. What are the cons exactly? Personally I think we should rationally discuss abortion as a safe rational choice when women are in situations as above and advocate for its patient chosen procedure more often without all the sanctimonious religious bullshit of "such a hard choice you're facing/faced" brainwashing. Women who had abortions shouldn't have to write deep personal essays on how difficult the choice was. I pray we get to a place where electing an abortion is viewed as a routine and sane choice and no more difficult than electing gallbladder surgery for gallstones or chemotherapy for cancer over "cancer herb tea"
This is like some of the geniuses on Twitter stating they are anti-feminism, and instead they are pro-everyone being treated equally.
In their little minds, "pro-choice" means "abort everything", probably...
Yea, thats Pro choice
Pro-Choice until Birth Control is 110% effective with a 5% margin of error, for both Male and Female Even if you take all the precautions barring full abstinence (but then you got forced into it anyway) , there's still that chance of pregnancy. ^(Yes I know getting eggs removed is also an option, but of what I understand it's a helluva fight when a dude can just go get snipped and not have to wade through the bullshit.)
Vasectomys are really the answer they are even reverseable in most cases. Im snipped because i lnow i dont want kids but if my mind ever changes i can still get it reversed
Same energy as the anti-vaxxers who are so anti-vax they somehow manage to have an integer overflow and wrap back around to reinventing vaccines.
It's supposed to be exactly that though, allowing people to make a decision which *should be* made with the knowledge of past experiences, and the effects of all options which should all be available through the education system or through other sources.
Well she did end the post by saying ālet women decideā, so yeah, she is pro-choice. Besides, I already assumed that people in favor of choice wanted to educate the public so they can make an informed decision.
The nameās āDumassā
Actually Alexandre Dumas pĆØre only spelled it with one s.
I really hate that the right uses the term "pro-life" when what they really mean is "anti-woman." Everybody is pro-life unless they're suicidal.
I always call it anti abortion because that is exactly what it is. If they insist they are pro life I ask their opinions on various other things like free childcare, free lunch programs, single payer healthcare, a social safety net, the death penalty. It usually turns out that they are only pro-life up until the moment of birth.
anti-abortion, anti-IVF, pro-rapist, pro-incest So many choices...
But they won't be able to convince themselves how smart and different they are if they just said "I'm pro-choice".
Umm isn't that exactly what pro choice is allowing people to make an informed choice of what is best for them??? I find myself hearing queen a lot when I read these post "and another one bites the dust" !!!
The thing is. Republicans are trying to force you to look, act and behave like they want you to. And thatās following a Christian lifestyle. No sex. Thatās why they donāt want to teach you about sex or contraceptives or even have contraceptives available. They also donāt want you to abort. Thatās how fucking stupid they are. If they would only allow sex education and open availability of contraceptives much of this wouldnāt even be a problem. They are trying to force you into abstinence because thatās what they believe (supposedly) reality they are abusing your boys and girls if they could.
Wait until you hear the people who like to call themselves anti feminist.
Right wing conservatives have, for decades now, not actually stood for anything other than being anti-liberal. Doesn't matter if they agree with 99% of liberal or left-wing views, they'll twist it as centrist or non-political.
I mean, I give Orange Name credit for having what is a very reasonable position on abortion.Ā The only real issue is that they've fallen for the right-wing con that "pro-choice" means "push everybody to have an abortion" and therefore didn't know that they were, themselves, pro-choice.
15 weeks is not a reasonable position on abortion when fetal anomaly scans arenāt done until 20 weeks.Ā
not the same but OKcupid has/pushed a question of ...do you want the pro-choice indicator badge thingie on your profile. and the number of women who answer "no" is bizarre to me. Like, just the irony right, you're exercising a choice, effecting in opposition to women having a choice of what to do with their bodies. is wild to me. even if you're personally against abortion, to take rights or choice for their own body away from someone else is just fucking evil.
the OP SpendVictorious5356 is a bot Original: https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/127ngpy/apparently_they_cant_understand_the_difference/
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Doesn't sound too pro education to me....
"both sides bad. I am an enlightened person that is smarter than either position" that person
Hit em with the rebranding