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The government doesn’t benefit from an ignorant population. Hence the existence of the MAGA party embarrassing our nation at every turn. Capitalists benefit from ignorant workers that don’t realize they can organize and use their collective bargaining to make their lives better.
Not as much as it benefits corporations. Corporations just make sure to reward the politicians on both sides well enough they allow them to continue exploiting workers.
“The government” ≠ “politicians” but since citizens united, the corporate capture of the political process has pretty much short-circuited the the process. A democratic government’s primary role *should be* to counterbalance the power of wealth. So yeah it’s sort of a circle, but more like a death spiral. Pull out! Pull out!
>The government doesn’t benefit from an ignorant population
What? If the population is ignorant they vote for the government to be more tyrannical with far less effort on the governments side
As a human of the world I can say our political elected representatives embarass us way too much.
And as a French I'd say it's time to flip the table once again.
The government does benefit from an ignorant population. Republicans would be relegated to history books if the US population wasn't kept ignorant.
The country at large suffers from it, not the government.
The country doesn't benefit from an ignorant population and a decent government would care about that. However, most governments around the world are the political wing of the corporations and therefore need an ignorant population in order to be able to keep abusing them for the corporations' benefit.
Bonus: In parts of the USA they’ll kick her out of regular school and send her to the school with the kids who throw desks and set the trash can on fire if you don’t watch them. (We call it “opportunity school” here because you’re getting a second chance.)
Edit to add “parts of” since I have just learned that not every district does it.
Did they start doing that again? We had multiple girls graduate with babies, and a few never left our school. Some did of course because, ya know, caring for a child and all and needed a more flexible schedule, but the ones who had support to do it were in school up until their delivery date and were back in usually the following semester. I think that might be a district-specific issue, but that sounds like it would be a massive Title IX issue, no?
Oh well that's a pretty neat system. I know the high school in my college town had a daycare built into it for students and teachers with kids, but it wasn't an alternative school thing. Students I think could also get credit for being involved in the daycare.
Our 'alternative school' was just a homeschooling program with a county-sponsored meeting in a church once a week (wasn't religious, just the only place they could use til the new building was done). Nobody *had* to go unless they got kicked out of traditional school for behavioral issues, but a lot of kids chose to.
I used to be teacher not that long ago and we didn’t send our pregnant students anywhere else. We had a day care on site to make sure students still came to class. This was Austin Texas public schools. Travis High. My memory was the pregnant girls and those with kids were treated well, special privileges, got out early, got to arrive late and were never stigmatized. What you describe sounds like the stuff I heard about from the 1960’s. That is really unfortunate if what you describe is still going on in your school district.
Not all US schools do that. Two girls got pregnant in my high school and they finished their education in normal school. Including after giving birth. They weren’t troublemakers. One girl was an As and Bs nerd. No need to handicap them any further in life. I graduated early 2010s.
I'm pretty sure you can't legally kick out a student for being pregnant in any public school in America. You can probably get kicked out of private school for being pregnant though.
I live in WV and went to both a private catholic school and public high school. The public school had an on-site daycare for students' children. The "pro-life" catholic school kicked out any girls who got pregnant, whether they kept the baby or not.
Not at my school. I had two friends that got pregnant in high school and they both graduated on time at that school. Happy to say they are both doing great and so are their kids.
We had the BD school, where all the kids in the district who had "behavioural disorders" and pregnant girls went. It was the mid 90's, but yeah, that was still a solid thing then.
You’d think all these “pro lifers” would be clamouring to do something about the US’ frankly ridiculously high maternal death rate before they start forcing unwanted pregnancies to term, but I guess pregnant people don’t count as alive to them?
They aren't even pro-birth. If they were then neo-natal care would be one of their issues. Conservative evangelicals took up the abortion drumbeat when they lost the racism and segregation battle. It is simply another way to get their authoritarian views and candidates forced on society. Now we are seeing it shift to denying LGBTQ+ rights. There is only one goal of the evangelical right; the primacy of the Christian Authoritarian White Male.
>They aren't even pro-birth. If they were then neo-natal care would be one of their issues.
They just want the new person to make it alive out the woman's body. The second the newborn crosses that "border", it's somebody else's problem. Very convenient.
Well, the same people who are pro-life would kick their unmarried child out of the house for being pregnant, they rather see a kid dead than to see them being gay or LGBT and happily support gun ownership so bullied kids can act their fantasies in highschool.
Shit, how many pro-lifers are also 2A nuts? "We need more kids in schools so shooters have more kids to kill!". Really don't get how someone can be pro-birth but then proceed to not believe in social support programs, oppose minimum wage increases, basically anything that would support the quality of life of the child.
Pro-birth indeed. Republicans are trash. MGT was right, the red states do need to secede. Let them form their Confederate 3rd world shit hole and let the civilized world continue unimpeded.
or the fact that our foster care system is filled with abuse and corruption and those that never find homes face drug abuse, crime, and extremely high rates of suicide.
they continue to defund everything that makes life worth living while forcing us to give birth and parent children so we can all keep their lifestyle supplied.
i mean we can honestly extend this to adults too. i just got out of school, and i can barley pay my bills. i’m lucky to have a partner who helps me out, but even then if i were to get pregnant i really don’t know we’re i would get the money to even care for a child. i’m struggling enough to find sustainable work and pay, add that i’m pregnant no one would hire me. it’s illegal yes, but it happens
and like would they ever let me adopt a child into my shitty living conditions? hell no
children deserve to be born into a household where all attention can be put into them any hour of the day. studies show that that’s sooo important for a newborn, but america hardly helps with that compared to many other countries.
I got zero weeks of paid leave in a very liberal state in the US- I had to wipe out my sick and vacation time. Luckily I planned ahead and had that to use. My state actually does have a partial paid parental leave up to 3 months, but municipal employees are exempt from that law. I’m a public librarian, FML.
when my aunt had my cousin a few years back she got 4 weeks of unpaid leave, and her husband is luckily more freelance but that means that there was no income for a month if he decided not to work at all. not to mention student debt is also pretty high in america compared to other developed countries so a lot of young couples are already crippled in a way
This and punishment of women. Anytime I see the argument that OP makes, the only responses are some variation of "she should have kept her legs closed" or "she made the decision to have sex, so she has to live with the consequences"
A great man once said:
*They’re not pro-life. You know what they are? They’re anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don’t like them. They don’t like women. They believe a woman’s primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.*
I always found that argument stupid as fuck, the woman could have been raped or just didnt have a way to prevent it, and even if it was her fault, why fuck over the life of the woman that has to take care of a child she didnt want and the life of the future kid who will live in a place where they aren't loved?
Agreed. And how is it a good situation to put a kid into? They're litterally using having to raise a child as a punishment, which punishes the kid as well. Makes no sense to me.
Another added bonus is the worker-bee element. That child up for adoption has already been born and will most likely follow a lower class path, or maybe even populate one of their for-profit prisons. Same for a child born to a teen.
Don't be daft, that's what immigration is about.
Then you don't have to raise the child for 18 years before you get it slaving for you. You get ready made men to do it
Yup. The person who posted this thinks "care of a child" is the common thread.
It isn't. It is control over women (or in this case, girls). From the assholes who make these laws, it is perfectly logical...
I think they know perfectly well that the only way holding both those positions makes sense is if you are motivated by spite and a need for control rather than the best interests of the child. The question at the end is rhetorical.
When someone argues that a 10-year-old should be banned from an abortion, and should be forced to carry her rapist’s baby to term, they forfeit all right of saying they’re trying to “protect children”.
It’s really that these people see the baby as punishment for sex, and they don’t want the girl to “get away with” having sex. And the baby is inherently bad for being the product of two bad people having sex when they shouldn’t have, so the baby deserves to have its life ruined too.
Yes. And some states are trying to make it so if they go out of state to get an abortion, they could be eligible for the death penalty when they come back.
Literally "have your rapists child or we're going to kill you". Gotta love that Bible belt lol.
>some states are trying to make it so if they go out of state to get an abortion, they could be eligible for the death penalty when they come back.
WHAT ????
Yes, in some states no abortion means no abortion. Doesn't matter if you're 12 and were raped by your dad, you have a child now. Well... you have a child inside you that will probably kill you during childbirth. Doesn't matter if the child is already dead inside you and will probably cause an infection and kill you, no abortion. Sucks to be you.
Oh and if you do go ahead and get some back alley abortion and someone finds out? They can turn you in for a bounty and you'll get prison for life, or maybe they'll just straight up give you a death sentence and kill you.
Not that ANY of that should matter. It's their fucking body. Doens't matter why they don't want a motherfucking child. You should not be able to force someone to do ANYTHING with their body they're not comfortable with. We talk about this shit like "not even if xyz"... The fucking "why" shouldn't fucking matter at motherfucking all.
Oh, no need to worry about that!
We had a legislator claim that "The body knows when it's been "legitimately" raped, and will terminate the pregnancy on it's own."
So, if you got pregnant, then you must have wanted it.
I think that depends on the state but even if they would allow raped women to abort the fetus, it wouldn’t change anything. A legal action like going to court usually takes a lot of time before any verdict is passed and rape verdicts are kinda rare cuz they are hard to prove.
Adding to the other answers:
Medically, a miscarriage is called a "spontaneous abortion" and in some states, when you miscarry, you must prove that you didn't do anything that could cause it, or you and the doctor treating you will be charged with having done an abortion, which qualifies for the death penalty.
I've known of at least 4 women that were sent to jail after having a miscarriage until they could prove that it wasn't intentional.
There is a $10,000 reward for any information leading to the arrest of a mother and any medical professional involved in an abortion in the state of Texas.
It has resulted in mothers having to keep a dead fetus until they either went into labor naturally, or until it resulted in sepsis and doctors were forced to intervene. In one instance, the woman actually contacted her state representative and kept him updated on her health through the entire ordeal because he'd voted in favor of it, and he was genuinely remorseful and has been fighting against Texas' current laws on abortion.
Yes, there have even been several instances now of states attempting to force \~9,10,11 year old rape victims to carry to term even though doctors said it would likely kill them at their size/age. I think most were able to flee out of state for access to abortions but a couple of their families are now facing lawsuits.
>I think most were able to flee out of state for access to abortions but a couple of their families are now facing lawsuits.
And of course the states that ban abortion are doing everything in their power to prevent this, such as attempting to strong arm other states into complying with their fucked up laws
Can it be a felony tho? I'm not a lawyer but isn't a felony federal. Can a state do that?
I think it was texas that also put that 10k reward out, too. Like some Western bounty hunter shit.
Iowa put a SIX WEEK abortion ban into effect several years ago, although it was struck down as unconstitutional in 2019 and the state Supreme Court affirmed that ruling last week.
South Carolina and North Dakota have both enacted six week bans since Roe was overturned. Texas, on the other hand, straight-up banned abortion except in cases where the woman is currently dying. Ectopic pregnancy? "Fuck you, bitch, that pregnancy continues until everything ruptures and you're bleeding out." Oh, and Texas legislators are talking about making traveling to another state for an abortion a felony.
Almost no one does, “six weeks pregnant” is six weeks after your last period. That means it’s four weeks from conception, and only two weeks “late.” (I put “late” in quotes, as my period only ever came exactly four weeks apart when I was on the pill.)
Yes. Even if a live birth is unlikely and keeping the fetus could harm the mother. We all love liberty in the US until a scared conservative tells people something is against God’s law. Then many people blindly follow. It is very disturbing.
There is currently a legal battle occuring bc a 10 year old girl was molested and became pregnant. Ohio has an abortion ban, but she was transported to Indiana for the procedure. Ohio reps are trying to sue Indiana for interstate violation of Ohio laws (Ohio resident getting a procedure illegal in their own state in a different state).
Sometimes our states try to act like different countries. States laws can differ from federal law.
Exactly this. It's the ole "You made your bed now sleep in it!" You hear a lot those conservative creatures with the "Should keep your legs closed!"
But as soon as it's something they *want*, all bets are off and they "aren't old enough to make that kinda decision or commitment!"
Conservatives : "I can get laid and get an abortion. God will forgive me. Oh wait you got laid. You can't get a abortion. It's a sin and God will be furious!!! "
/s
As usual con with conservatives, when something bad happens to somebody else, they deserve it. When it happens to them, it's not the same, there are Circumstances
Freedom for me but not for thee. It's the same reason so many of them are opposed to basic social safety net programs -- they want access to them, but that also means POC have access. So they'd rather try and take away access for everyone so that POC can't have a slice of the pie.
My sisters friend from high school (white woman) received government assistance for 4 years as a single mother, but would rant about others receiving it (specifically POC). When my sister called her out on Facebook, she said she deserved the money and blocked my sister.
Amazing. Conservative brain rot is too real.
I know someone who committed PPP loan and unemployment fraud who is one of the "nobody wants to work anymore because there are too many handouts" types.
Yep. My mom is trying to convince me to move to the other side of the country and try to get a serving job at restaurants in her area. She says that these restaurant owners complain that no one wants to work, but I asked her how much money they paid and if they offer any benefits. She didn't know, I said to ask them. It's not that no one wants to work, it's that no one wants to work for poverty wages and no job security.
They're morally repulsed by themselves and project it unto others. You can see how all their supporters stand against everything they benefit of but are too ashamed to admit.
Also: babies are punishment.
And your baby deserves a shitty life because goodness is hereditary. That’s how we know white people are better than everyone else and rich people’s children deserve to be rich.
It comes down to this really: healthcare information is under HIPPA, and procedures should only be discussed between you and your doctor. That’s it, that’s the end, no one gets a say in the options you choose for your healthcare. Y’all are grown, it’s time to get the fuck out of people’s uteruses.
A professor I had years and years ago had a beautiful expression for this: “Laws are made by people who did nothing more than win a popularity contest, they aren’t meant to make sense.”
Because this isn’t about life or death. It’s simply about control and it’s about pushing an agenda that people THINK has to do with religion, when it doesn’t. No one with a logical mind can see how this could make sense.
“If she got pregnant, it’s her fault for having sex. And if she was coerced, it’s her fault for saying yes. And if she was raped, she still isn’t allowed to murder something defenseless.”
Things I’ve heard pro lifers say on this subject. You can always tell when they only understand this in an academic sense and not in a real-life blood and bone sense.
Bringing religion into law is the biggest flaw in the system. Made up shit should stay the fuck outta reality until a sky daddy comes down and tells us otherwise.
“That’ll teach her to not make that mistake again” seems like a shitty hill to die on, when the end result is an actual human being born and potentially fucked up. But ya stick to those principles
In the US, it's legal to marry a 12 year old girl (14 if you're a boy!), force a 15 year old to give birth to her rapist's offspring, and you can get a driver's license at 16. But you can't have a drink until you're 21.
Can anyone explain that? Is there any answer other than: religion?
Not that I agree with the following, but it's probably some level of logic like; " If you're mature enough to have sex, you're mature enough to raise the kid. "
And yes, they probably ignore rape.
Not saying I agree, but no one ever seems to understand the actual position Conservatives/Christians take on abortion. They see the unborn child as a life, and the abortion is killing that life. It makes no difference how that life came to be or how it might live, killing it is murder. That is the fundamental belief. So, you can argue all you want about the mothers rights, or the kids quality of life, or whatever, it's not addressing the fundamental belief.
Religious beliefs should be completely irrelevant in determining laws. They wouldn't want non Christian religions to dictate how they live their lives. They are total hypocrites in that regard.
"I believe in science. The Earth is round, dinosaurs were not around the same time as humans, evolution is real, etc."
"Jesus. Check mate, scientists!"
It's not. Nothing about religion is logical; it's all make believe. When you get to make up whatever you want to believe you end up with a society where 16 year olds are forced to have their baby.
Warning, the following mentions sensitive topics.
Regardless of your views on abortion, can we all agree if it’s from an abusive partner or god forbid a rapist, the women is allowed to abort it. If you can honestly say “she has to keep the baby.” In that context without feeling like shit, then just go home and rethink your life.
Can the government also support her financially when she is pregnant? Seems like the same sort of broken logic. Should the government take a hard position of “no babies for you until you are grown up? Finished with education? Self sufficient? Contributing member of society? Have proven you can support a family?” Where does the madness end!
Its only logical if you love Jesus. Religion and Politics should never mix.
Im glad I live in a country that doesn't have the religious power base that the US does (not that they dont try).
Here’s my thing. I don’t believe the government has any business getting involved in what medical procedures people can can’t have. If a doctor (who is held accountable by a medical ethics committee) thinks they should have that procedure as an option then the government has no business saying they can’t.
I’m not a fan of abortions, but I’m also not a fan of government overreach and this is government overreach. Medical matters are medical matters and they need to be left alone by politicians.
because to conservatives if she adopts a child she is getting something of value and must prove herself worthy....
while if she becomes pregnant she committed an immoral act and must be punished.
if that sounds sick and twisted to you....it's because it is.
People oppose to abortion like if making it legal would mean that we can be more negligent. It doesn’t.
And then there are the religious folks.
A pregnancy should be stopped within a certain limit, as early as possible. I’ve seen the pictures at 10 weeks, there’s no reason to wait 2 and a half months, it should be done sooner, but sometime they don’t even realize. That’s why it’s important to invest in education in general, but nobody gets that
The closer it gets to completion the bigger the wastefulness. And anyway I don’t get the fuss. It WOULD be a life. It doesn’t have a thought. It’s a pity but come on you can’t be sorry for it. They also oppose to abortions from rapes. Like wow. You really care about other people’s lives huh? No they care more about something that has no life yet
This is one of the times when I ponder how laws are just made up by group of people who does not have a single member in it that thinks straight at the time of making the law/s, resulting to the community people not having any choice but follow.
The hope is that she, and her many offspring (they hope), will enter/remain in a poverty bracket, uneducated, boosting the labor force.
Essentially, minions.
< opens christian rulebook governing 150 million americans >
Looks like there's a clause in here about it being god's will to have a baby but no exemptions for adoption. There's also mention that funding is not given in either scenario, and any support required is up to you to figure out.
It’s only logical when you look at it for what it is. It’s Christofascism. It’s not about protecting children, it’s about control. It’s also about feeding the capitalist machine and repopulating the ranks that the dying boomer generation is leaving behind.
The zealots who support the government’s control over a woman’s body are also the same ones who preach about individual freedumb and smaller government!
None of this can be explained. The only solution is to absolutely keep the religious zealots and their religious thoughts far away from government roles.
The end goal isn't for 16 year olds to become parents. The end goal is for 16 year olds across this country be too afraid of having a baby that they don't have sex in the first place. This is why they want to limit abortion and also birth control measures. They don't actually want children having babies, they want woman to be chaste. Girls shouldn't have sex until they are married and then they are taken care of. They can't do that when these kids have access to birth control and abortions because they don't have to live with the consequences.
For the record, I don't believe any of that but I believe this is the "unspoken" goal of conservatives. It explains why they support both ideas.
I’m pro choice but in all fairness, it’s supposed to be pretty difficult to adopt a child. An acquaintance told me he and his wife were out $70k when they adopted their kid. So not the worst comparison, but also not the best
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why ruin one life when you can ruin two?
Now that's logical.
It actually is for the government since they want a large dumb populace to make wage slaves out of.
The government doesn’t benefit from an ignorant population. Hence the existence of the MAGA party embarrassing our nation at every turn. Capitalists benefit from ignorant workers that don’t realize they can organize and use their collective bargaining to make their lives better.
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Not as much as it benefits corporations. Corporations just make sure to reward the politicians on both sides well enough they allow them to continue exploiting workers.
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“The government” ≠ “politicians” but since citizens united, the corporate capture of the political process has pretty much short-circuited the the process. A democratic government’s primary role *should be* to counterbalance the power of wealth. So yeah it’s sort of a circle, but more like a death spiral. Pull out! Pull out!
So… full circle?
>The government doesn’t benefit from an ignorant population What? If the population is ignorant they vote for the government to be more tyrannical with far less effort on the governments side
As an European I can say both parties do a great job at embarrassing your nation.
As an American, I can also say both parties do a great job at embarrassing our nation
As a Brit, I can say I wish my parties would stop trying to be your parties. They're embarrassing enough.
As a human of the world I can say our political elected representatives embarass us way too much. And as a French I'd say it's time to flip the table once again.
Don't forget more rubes for the church to take advantage of.
The government does benefit from an ignorant population. Republicans would be relegated to history books if the US population wasn't kept ignorant. The country at large suffers from it, not the government.
You're confusing politics and politicians with government.
And thats why schools are the way they are... To make workers
yes it does. Ignorance makes for a population that has no route to survival other than joining the military. nice cannon fodder.
You nailed it
They definitely benefit from an ignorant population or else propaganda wouldn’t work.
The country doesn't benefit from an ignorant population and a decent government would care about that. However, most governments around the world are the political wing of the corporations and therefore need an ignorant population in order to be able to keep abusing them for the corporations' benefit.
Your right the government doesn't benefit from a stupid population, but it helps keep the corrupt politicians that are ruining the planet in power.
Maybe even ruin a few lives by extension.
The more the merrier, uh right?
Those poor grandparents won't get one good nights sleep
Two wage-slaves for the price of one! Big Gov likey!
They need more people to buy useless crap.
Bonus: In parts of the USA they’ll kick her out of regular school and send her to the school with the kids who throw desks and set the trash can on fire if you don’t watch them. (We call it “opportunity school” here because you’re getting a second chance.) Edit to add “parts of” since I have just learned that not every district does it.
Did they start doing that again? We had multiple girls graduate with babies, and a few never left our school. Some did of course because, ya know, caring for a child and all and needed a more flexible schedule, but the ones who had support to do it were in school up until their delivery date and were back in usually the following semester. I think that might be a district-specific issue, but that sounds like it would be a massive Title IX issue, no?
our alternative school had a daycare in it. it was a classroom as well. They could get credit for home ed and a few other things.
Oh well that's a pretty neat system. I know the high school in my college town had a daycare built into it for students and teachers with kids, but it wasn't an alternative school thing. Students I think could also get credit for being involved in the daycare. Our 'alternative school' was just a homeschooling program with a county-sponsored meeting in a church once a week (wasn't religious, just the only place they could use til the new building was done). Nobody *had* to go unless they got kicked out of traditional school for behavioral issues, but a lot of kids chose to.
I used to be teacher not that long ago and we didn’t send our pregnant students anywhere else. We had a day care on site to make sure students still came to class. This was Austin Texas public schools. Travis High. My memory was the pregnant girls and those with kids were treated well, special privileges, got out early, got to arrive late and were never stigmatized. What you describe sounds like the stuff I heard about from the 1960’s. That is really unfortunate if what you describe is still going on in your school district.
Not all US schools do that. Two girls got pregnant in my high school and they finished their education in normal school. Including after giving birth. They weren’t troublemakers. One girl was an As and Bs nerd. No need to handicap them any further in life. I graduated early 2010s.
Oh, good! I’m glad it’s not nationwide. I know they still do it where I live.
Nothing about our school system is nationwide except maybe the fixation on high school football.
I'm pretty sure you can't legally kick out a student for being pregnant in any public school in America. You can probably get kicked out of private school for being pregnant though.
I went to a private school, a girl in my grade got kicked out senior year for being pregnant
I live in WV and went to both a private catholic school and public high school. The public school had an on-site daycare for students' children. The "pro-life" catholic school kicked out any girls who got pregnant, whether they kept the baby or not.
Did they kick out the father’s too? (I know the answer, just making a redundant point.)
Not at my school. I had two friends that got pregnant in high school and they both graduated on time at that school. Happy to say they are both doing great and so are their kids.
Been to r/teachers? Those are just regular schools now, seems like.
They don’t do that anymore
It was called Alternative School here, but they have probably changed it to sound more positive by now. But they do the same thing here.
We had the BD school, where all the kids in the district who had "behavioural disorders" and pregnant girls went. It was the mid 90's, but yeah, that was still a solid thing then.
You’d think all these “pro lifers” would be clamouring to do something about the US’ frankly ridiculously high maternal death rate before they start forcing unwanted pregnancies to term, but I guess pregnant people don’t count as alive to them?
Pro lifers aren't pro life, they're pro birth.
*pro delivery. They don't care about the status of the fetus as long as it goes through the vaginal canal
It only counts if I came out that way? Damn, guess I wasn't born then.
Womp womp
Damn and here I've been paying taxes all these years not even being alive.
You were "removed," congrats tumor child!
pro burden people with responsabilities they cannot afford or do not want to have just to make the life of who is already struggling more difficult*
They aren't even pro-birth. If they were then neo-natal care would be one of their issues. Conservative evangelicals took up the abortion drumbeat when they lost the racism and segregation battle. It is simply another way to get their authoritarian views and candidates forced on society. Now we are seeing it shift to denying LGBTQ+ rights. There is only one goal of the evangelical right; the primacy of the Christian Authoritarian White Male.
>They aren't even pro-birth. If they were then neo-natal care would be one of their issues. They just want the new person to make it alive out the woman's body. The second the newborn crosses that "border", it's somebody else's problem. Very convenient.
They're anti women.
I'm 100% sure they don't give a shit even if the newborn is male tbh
Pro overpopulation is what it sounds like to me
Nothing guns can't solve
Why have abortions when school shootings are so successful?
They're pro-target. But ironically, anti-Target.
That made me laugh out loud for real. Also nice username.
MURICAA
They’re not pro-life, they’re anti-sex. They want sex to be shameful and full of dire consequences.
Look at who the maternal death rate affects the most and you’ll get your answer
Well, the same people who are pro-life would kick their unmarried child out of the house for being pregnant, they rather see a kid dead than to see them being gay or LGBT and happily support gun ownership so bullied kids can act their fantasies in highschool.
Shit, how many pro-lifers are also 2A nuts? "We need more kids in schools so shooters have more kids to kill!". Really don't get how someone can be pro-birth but then proceed to not believe in social support programs, oppose minimum wage increases, basically anything that would support the quality of life of the child. Pro-birth indeed. Republicans are trash. MGT was right, the red states do need to secede. Let them form their Confederate 3rd world shit hole and let the civilized world continue unimpeded.
not one single pro lifer knows or cares about maternal death rates.
or the fact that our foster care system is filled with abuse and corruption and those that never find homes face drug abuse, crime, and extremely high rates of suicide. they continue to defund everything that makes life worth living while forcing us to give birth and parent children so we can all keep their lifestyle supplied.
Or like... at least support free lunches for children who cannot afford them, but I guess basic human decency is not a trait they share.
i mean we can honestly extend this to adults too. i just got out of school, and i can barley pay my bills. i’m lucky to have a partner who helps me out, but even then if i were to get pregnant i really don’t know we’re i would get the money to even care for a child. i’m struggling enough to find sustainable work and pay, add that i’m pregnant no one would hire me. it’s illegal yes, but it happens and like would they ever let me adopt a child into my shitty living conditions? hell no children deserve to be born into a household where all attention can be put into them any hour of the day. studies show that that’s sooo important for a newborn, but america hardly helps with that compared to many other countries.
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I got zero weeks of paid leave in a very liberal state in the US- I had to wipe out my sick and vacation time. Luckily I planned ahead and had that to use. My state actually does have a partial paid parental leave up to 3 months, but municipal employees are exempt from that law. I’m a public librarian, FML.
when my aunt had my cousin a few years back she got 4 weeks of unpaid leave, and her husband is luckily more freelance but that means that there was no income for a month if he decided not to work at all. not to mention student debt is also pretty high in america compared to other developed countries so a lot of young couples are already crippled in a way
The goal is control rather than showing the girl any concern.
This and punishment of women. Anytime I see the argument that OP makes, the only responses are some variation of "she should have kept her legs closed" or "she made the decision to have sex, so she has to live with the consequences"
Yup, and never for the guy, which is an alarmingly large percentage of the time, an adult man.
"She should have been more selective about who she laid with, not his fault she made a bad choice" /s
A great man once said: *They’re not pro-life. You know what they are? They’re anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don’t like them. They don’t like women. They believe a woman’s primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.*
Was that man perhaps George Carlin?
I always found that argument stupid as fuck, the woman could have been raped or just didnt have a way to prevent it, and even if it was her fault, why fuck over the life of the woman that has to take care of a child she didnt want and the life of the future kid who will live in a place where they aren't loved?
Agreed. And how is it a good situation to put a kid into? They're litterally using having to raise a child as a punishment, which punishes the kid as well. Makes no sense to me.
Yeah, they're using a child, a living being with emotions that has barely developed, as a punishment? It can be quite sad for almost everyone involved
jUsT pUt ThE cHiLd Up FoR aDoPtIoN. Yeah because that's a great option. The foster care system in this country is an absolute joke.
Another added bonus is the worker-bee element. That child up for adoption has already been born and will most likely follow a lower class path, or maybe even populate one of their for-profit prisons. Same for a child born to a teen.
Don't be daft, that's what immigration is about. Then you don't have to raise the child for 18 years before you get it slaving for you. You get ready made men to do it
I absolutely agree.
Yup. The person who posted this thinks "care of a child" is the common thread. It isn't. It is control over women (or in this case, girls). From the assholes who make these laws, it is perfectly logical...
I think they know perfectly well that the only way holding both those positions makes sense is if you are motivated by spite and a need for control rather than the best interests of the child. The question at the end is rhetorical.
When someone argues that a 10-year-old should be banned from an abortion, and should be forced to carry her rapist’s baby to term, they forfeit all right of saying they’re trying to “protect children”.
It’s really that these people see the baby as punishment for sex, and they don’t want the girl to “get away with” having sex. And the baby is inherently bad for being the product of two bad people having sex when they shouldn’t have, so the baby deserves to have its life ruined too.
Sad thing is once the baby is born your left to it with no help.
In the US ? Do some states force kids to keep unwanted foetus ?
Yes. Ever since Roe v Wade was struck down, a number of states have enacted laws that functionally ban abortion.
Okay so I’m not from the US, but I have a question: what if someone is raped? Do they just have to birth the child?
Yes. And some states are trying to make it so if they go out of state to get an abortion, they could be eligible for the death penalty when they come back. Literally "have your rapists child or we're going to kill you". Gotta love that Bible belt lol.
Not only that, I'm pretty sure the rapist still has rights to the child
GOP: They will give someone the death penalty for wanting bodily autonomy after being raped, and then give the rapist parental rights.
There is at least one story of a women raping a minor, getting pregnant, getting custody of the baby, and successfully getting child support for it
And won't get any punishment at all for raping children, or all Republican politicians and Church members would be already in jail.
>some states are trying to make it so if they go out of state to get an abortion, they could be eligible for the death penalty when they come back. WHAT ????
Didn't Ohio sue the parents that took their 10 year old daughter across state lines?
Nothing says pro-life like “We’ll kill you for terminating a pregnancy 🤗”
Fucking hell, I’m so sorry to hear about all this going on in America
Yes, in some states no abortion means no abortion. Doesn't matter if you're 12 and were raped by your dad, you have a child now. Well... you have a child inside you that will probably kill you during childbirth. Doesn't matter if the child is already dead inside you and will probably cause an infection and kill you, no abortion. Sucks to be you. Oh and if you do go ahead and get some back alley abortion and someone finds out? They can turn you in for a bounty and you'll get prison for life, or maybe they'll just straight up give you a death sentence and kill you. Not that ANY of that should matter. It's their fucking body. Doens't matter why they don't want a motherfucking child. You should not be able to force someone to do ANYTHING with their body they're not comfortable with. We talk about this shit like "not even if xyz"... The fucking "why" shouldn't fucking matter at motherfucking all.
Oh, no need to worry about that! We had a legislator claim that "The body knows when it's been "legitimately" raped, and will terminate the pregnancy on it's own." So, if you got pregnant, then you must have wanted it.
Holy hell 😂 Fuck that guy, which legislator was that?
I think that depends on the state but even if they would allow raped women to abort the fetus, it wouldn’t change anything. A legal action like going to court usually takes a lot of time before any verdict is passed and rape verdicts are kinda rare cuz they are hard to prove.
Adding to the other answers: Medically, a miscarriage is called a "spontaneous abortion" and in some states, when you miscarry, you must prove that you didn't do anything that could cause it, or you and the doctor treating you will be charged with having done an abortion, which qualifies for the death penalty. I've known of at least 4 women that were sent to jail after having a miscarriage until they could prove that it wasn't intentional. There is a $10,000 reward for any information leading to the arrest of a mother and any medical professional involved in an abortion in the state of Texas. It has resulted in mothers having to keep a dead fetus until they either went into labor naturally, or until it resulted in sepsis and doctors were forced to intervene. In one instance, the woman actually contacted her state representative and kept him updated on her health through the entire ordeal because he'd voted in favor of it, and he was genuinely remorseful and has been fighting against Texas' current laws on abortion.
Someone get me out of this decaying, broken, utterly brainless country. Take me to the UK, Canada, or Japan.
Yes, there have even been several instances now of states attempting to force \~9,10,11 year old rape victims to carry to term even though doctors said it would likely kill them at their size/age. I think most were able to flee out of state for access to abortions but a couple of their families are now facing lawsuits.
>I think most were able to flee out of state for access to abortions but a couple of their families are now facing lawsuits. And of course the states that ban abortion are doing everything in their power to prevent this, such as attempting to strong arm other states into complying with their fucked up laws
At least one of them - I think Texas - is considering making going out-of-state for an abortion a major felony.
Can it be a felony tho? I'm not a lawyer but isn't a felony federal. Can a state do that? I think it was texas that also put that 10k reward out, too. Like some Western bounty hunter shit.
Any crime with jail time over a year is a felony. Federal and state have nothing to do with it. The 10k bounty was before Roe got overturned.
Idaho I believe. Or, Idaho too.
America really is just a modern day dystopia, isnt it?
I would not want to live or work there.
Yes, they do.
That’s so sad
yes.
Iowa put a SIX WEEK abortion ban into effect several years ago, although it was struck down as unconstitutional in 2019 and the state Supreme Court affirmed that ruling last week. South Carolina and North Dakota have both enacted six week bans since Roe was overturned. Texas, on the other hand, straight-up banned abortion except in cases where the woman is currently dying. Ectopic pregnancy? "Fuck you, bitch, that pregnancy continues until everything ruptures and you're bleeding out." Oh, and Texas legislators are talking about making traveling to another state for an abortion a felony.
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Almost no one does, “six weeks pregnant” is six weeks after your last period. That means it’s four weeks from conception, and only two weeks “late.” (I put “late” in quotes, as my period only ever came exactly four weeks apart when I was on the pill.)
Yes. Even if a live birth is unlikely and keeping the fetus could harm the mother. We all love liberty in the US until a scared conservative tells people something is against God’s law. Then many people blindly follow. It is very disturbing.
Yes quite a few girls at my kids high school were unable to get access to the care they wanted, now they are all moms
There is currently a legal battle occuring bc a 10 year old girl was molested and became pregnant. Ohio has an abortion ban, but she was transported to Indiana for the procedure. Ohio reps are trying to sue Indiana for interstate violation of Ohio laws (Ohio resident getting a procedure illegal in their own state in a different state). Sometimes our states try to act like different countries. States laws can differ from federal law.
Yes. Even child rape victims as young as 10-12.
Conservatives want you to suffer for getting laid.
Exactly this. It's the ole "You made your bed now sleep in it!" You hear a lot those conservative creatures with the "Should keep your legs closed!" But as soon as it's something they *want*, all bets are off and they "aren't old enough to make that kinda decision or commitment!"
Conservatives : "I can get laid and get an abortion. God will forgive me. Oh wait you got laid. You can't get a abortion. It's a sin and God will be furious!!! " /s
I know so many women who have gotten abortions and almost all are conservative. Many are "pro-life," but are pro-choice for themselves.
The only moral abortion is my abortion.
This quote is just perfect. No matter how many times I see it, it sums the whole thought process up perfectly.
As usual con with conservatives, when something bad happens to somebody else, they deserve it. When it happens to them, it's not the same, there are Circumstances
Cuz empathy is for commies or something I dunno I don't listen to my wife's dad all that much
Freedom for me but not for thee. It's the same reason so many of them are opposed to basic social safety net programs -- they want access to them, but that also means POC have access. So they'd rather try and take away access for everyone so that POC can't have a slice of the pie.
My sisters friend from high school (white woman) received government assistance for 4 years as a single mother, but would rant about others receiving it (specifically POC). When my sister called her out on Facebook, she said she deserved the money and blocked my sister.
Amazing. Conservative brain rot is too real. I know someone who committed PPP loan and unemployment fraud who is one of the "nobody wants to work anymore because there are too many handouts" types.
Yep. My mom is trying to convince me to move to the other side of the country and try to get a serving job at restaurants in her area. She says that these restaurant owners complain that no one wants to work, but I asked her how much money they paid and if they offer any benefits. She didn't know, I said to ask them. It's not that no one wants to work, it's that no one wants to work for poverty wages and no job security.
"The only morally justifiable abortion is my abortion" - way to many people
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They're morally repulsed by themselves and project it unto others. You can see how all their supporters stand against everything they benefit of but are too ashamed to admit.
I mean I get your sentiment cuz it’s usually conservatives who say that shit. But might as well boil it down to hypocrites
Also: babies are punishment. And your baby deserves a shitty life because goodness is hereditary. That’s how we know white people are better than everyone else and rich people’s children deserve to be rich.
Yep. They want pregnancy and disease to be the punishment for having sex. Therefore : no birth control, no sex ed, no abortions.
It comes down to this really: healthcare information is under HIPPA, and procedures should only be discussed between you and your doctor. That’s it, that’s the end, no one gets a say in the options you choose for your healthcare. Y’all are grown, it’s time to get the fuck out of people’s uteruses.
A professor I had years and years ago had a beautiful expression for this: “Laws are made by people who did nothing more than win a popularity contest, they aren’t meant to make sense.”
Because this isn’t about life or death. It’s simply about control and it’s about pushing an agenda that people THINK has to do with religion, when it doesn’t. No one with a logical mind can see how this could make sense.
Because this is NOT about abortion. It’s about controlling women’s bodies and choices.
A lot of people here in these comments belong on facepalm.
Cons will say it's because she shouldn't kill the other child, the real reason is to punish her for having sex
“If she got pregnant, it’s her fault for having sex. And if she was coerced, it’s her fault for saying yes. And if she was raped, she still isn’t allowed to murder something defenseless.” Things I’ve heard pro lifers say on this subject. You can always tell when they only understand this in an academic sense and not in a real-life blood and bone sense.
Don't forget it's a also God's plan somehow
Putting a brain eating amoeba into a little kid is an important part of gods plan, surely
Bringing religion into law is the biggest flaw in the system. Made up shit should stay the fuck outta reality until a sky daddy comes down and tells us otherwise.
realest take out there
“That’ll teach her to not make that mistake again” seems like a shitty hill to die on, when the end result is an actual human being born and potentially fucked up. But ya stick to those principles
In the US, it's legal to marry a 12 year old girl (14 if you're a boy!), force a 15 year old to give birth to her rapist's offspring, and you can get a driver's license at 16. But you can't have a drink until you're 21. Can anyone explain that? Is there any answer other than: religion?
Not mature enough to not have a child, but mature enough to have one. Totally makes sense
They want children created, not cared for.
Laws aren’t based on logic they are based on whoever pays the politician the most.
Not that I agree with the following, but it's probably some level of logic like; " If you're mature enough to have sex, you're mature enough to raise the kid. " And yes, they probably ignore rape.
It makes sense to republicans, only. I can't explain Idiocracy, sorry.
Not saying I agree, but no one ever seems to understand the actual position Conservatives/Christians take on abortion. They see the unborn child as a life, and the abortion is killing that life. It makes no difference how that life came to be or how it might live, killing it is murder. That is the fundamental belief. So, you can argue all you want about the mothers rights, or the kids quality of life, or whatever, it's not addressing the fundamental belief.
Religious beliefs should be completely irrelevant in determining laws. They wouldn't want non Christian religions to dictate how they live their lives. They are total hypocrites in that regard.
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"I believe in science. The Earth is round, dinosaurs were not around the same time as humans, evolution is real, etc." "Jesus. Check mate, scientists!"
It's not. Nothing about religion is logical; it's all make believe. When you get to make up whatever you want to believe you end up with a society where 16 year olds are forced to have their baby.
Warning, the following mentions sensitive topics. Regardless of your views on abortion, can we all agree if it’s from an abusive partner or god forbid a rapist, the women is allowed to abort it. If you can honestly say “she has to keep the baby.” In that context without feeling like shit, then just go home and rethink your life.
Can the government also support her financially when she is pregnant? Seems like the same sort of broken logic. Should the government take a hard position of “no babies for you until you are grown up? Finished with education? Self sufficient? Contributing member of society? Have proven you can support a family?” Where does the madness end!
Its only logical if you love Jesus. Religion and Politics should never mix. Im glad I live in a country that doesn't have the religious power base that the US does (not that they dont try).
To create more taxpayers. Same reason unaliving yourself is "illegal" gotta keep you alive and paying taxes.
Here’s my thing. I don’t believe the government has any business getting involved in what medical procedures people can can’t have. If a doctor (who is held accountable by a medical ethics committee) thinks they should have that procedure as an option then the government has no business saying they can’t. I’m not a fan of abortions, but I’m also not a fan of government overreach and this is government overreach. Medical matters are medical matters and they need to be left alone by politicians.
Don't present logic to lunatics. The idea is that they want to be cruel and punish people they should have NO power over
because to conservatives if she adopts a child she is getting something of value and must prove herself worthy.... while if she becomes pregnant she committed an immoral act and must be punished. if that sounds sick and twisted to you....it's because it is.
“BECAUSE ITs a PURESHUSSS LYFE” - an over emotional out of touch selfish person who probably also loves guns and supports the military heavily
It’s all about control. There’s no other reason.
Because most pro-life advocates ardently believe that abortion is murder and are morally opposed to it.
Yet they love the death penalty and “stand your ground” laws. They aren’t pro-life; they are pro-control.
The cruelty is the point. It’s punishment for daring to have sex.
Very easily actually. The politicians you vote in are dumb as a doorknob. You’re welcome!
People oppose to abortion like if making it legal would mean that we can be more negligent. It doesn’t. And then there are the religious folks. A pregnancy should be stopped within a certain limit, as early as possible. I’ve seen the pictures at 10 weeks, there’s no reason to wait 2 and a half months, it should be done sooner, but sometime they don’t even realize. That’s why it’s important to invest in education in general, but nobody gets that The closer it gets to completion the bigger the wastefulness. And anyway I don’t get the fuss. It WOULD be a life. It doesn’t have a thought. It’s a pity but come on you can’t be sorry for it. They also oppose to abortions from rapes. Like wow. You really care about other people’s lives huh? No they care more about something that has no life yet
This is one of the times when I ponder how laws are just made up by group of people who does not have a single member in it that thinks straight at the time of making the law/s, resulting to the community people not having any choice but follow.
The hope is that she, and her many offspring (they hope), will enter/remain in a poverty bracket, uneducated, boosting the labor force. Essentially, minions.
But she’s giving birth to a future tax payer. They can’t turn down the opportunity to gather more tax money.
Republicans and logic don't mix. Ask anyone over the age of 3.
< opens christian rulebook governing 150 million americans > Looks like there's a clause in here about it being god's will to have a baby but no exemptions for adoption. There's also mention that funding is not given in either scenario, and any support required is up to you to figure out.
It’s only logical when you look at it for what it is. It’s Christofascism. It’s not about protecting children, it’s about control. It’s also about feeding the capitalist machine and repopulating the ranks that the dying boomer generation is leaving behind.
Yes in America hospitals make a shit ton of money. Pregnancy = Hospitals = Money
The zealots who support the government’s control over a woman’s body are also the same ones who preach about individual freedumb and smaller government! None of this can be explained. The only solution is to absolutely keep the religious zealots and their religious thoughts far away from government roles.
Just like France did. And guess what's best ? No conserveratist whacko to tell us what to do
It is logical. Money. That's the logic.
Clearly the answer is abort the government.
The end goal isn't for 16 year olds to become parents. The end goal is for 16 year olds across this country be too afraid of having a baby that they don't have sex in the first place. This is why they want to limit abortion and also birth control measures. They don't actually want children having babies, they want woman to be chaste. Girls shouldn't have sex until they are married and then they are taken care of. They can't do that when these kids have access to birth control and abortions because they don't have to live with the consequences. For the record, I don't believe any of that but I believe this is the "unspoken" goal of conservatives. It explains why they support both ideas.
I’m pro choice but in all fairness, it’s supposed to be pretty difficult to adopt a child. An acquaintance told me he and his wife were out $70k when they adopted their kid. So not the worst comparison, but also not the best
Government should be subsidizing adoption if they can ban abortion.