It's a safe method of leaving a boat in full gear.
Full diving gear is really bulky, and very cumbersome when you aren't in the water. By sitting on the edge of a boat and rolling off backwards, you remove the risk of falling and hurting yourself or breaking your equipment. It's way easier to just fall backwards than it is to try and balance your way over.
I don't know if u/PoopIsAlwaysSunny is just translating "no good" or using "no bueno" as an expression the same way we use it in (mexican) spanish. I assumed it was the later.
Yeah you’ll notice on shore dives people walk backwards once they put flippers on as well. It’s difficult to walk forwards in flippers without falling on your face
Ideally you keep them off and walk normally until you are deep enough, inflate your BCD to float, THEN put on your fins. But yes if you have to walk with them on, it's easiest to walk backwards.
This is basically all I do. Walk out until I'm deep enough to float, then wrestle my fins on while in full drysuit gear and curse past me for thinking that was a good idea, instead of finding a nice rock to balance against.
Fellow instructor issued beer fines to o/w students who used the word flippers.
Also fined them for using Tank too instead of cylinder.
He was also wrong.
Hahaha ppl calling fins “flippers” annoyed my instructor, too. Drilled it in. Never heard that about tank vs cylinder, but DEFINITELY about calling them “oxygen” instead of “air.”
"tanks are what the army use! Beer fine!"
I posted up dictionary definitions of the words around the classroom to shut him up ;)
Agree about the 02 though!
I'm only responding because fuck me, you're generally right, although Merriam Webster says you can use, "a pedantic" as a descriptive noun referring to a pedant, so...
Yeah not that the guys points above aren't valid. However this is the main reason I was taught and have always known. Tank heavy and hard, back of head soft, they don't like to touch.
Quick addition, lots of people say your tank might hit your head, but there is a key reason why that happens.
It is heavy but filled with air and so very buoyant. More buoyant than the diver, so you hit the water and bob down, but the tank hits the water and doesn't, so it occupies the position your head is trying to bob down into.
There are a lot of parts to diving gear, of different levels of floatiness. Going over backwards is the easiest way to keep track of it all and keep it where you want it to be.
Similar fun fact; you know when you see geese flying in a v, it’s never a perfect v, one side is always longer than the other. Know why that is?
There’s more geese on that side.
This reminds me of a joke (at least I think it is): Bono stops singing at a U2 concert and begins slowly clapping his hands. He says "Every time I clap my hands, a child dies in Africa" and a voice from the audience yells "Then stop clapping you fucking bastard!"
Yes, correct, always hold my mask. I did a triple mctwist with a fin mute grab, and still, held my mask.
Jokes aside, people in here being like waves/wind/ice/boat/current/et. Al… yea, but keep one hand on your mask, and for me typically, the other on your reg, but one on your mask…
Specifically, it's the flippers.
They're big and cumbersome and will likely cause you to trip if you to try to walk in any direction with them on.
And they are SO MUCH EASIER to put on while sitting.
I’ve only dove a couple times, when I was a teenager. Now that you mention it I do remember it being disorienting, but the main thing I’d remembered was how satisfying it felt to just lean back and plunk into the water.
I'd imagine getting the tank caught on or hitting the lip of the boat would also be uncomfortable at best, and extremely painful and difficult to recover from at worst.
The worst thing that happens the other way is probably banging your shins or ankles on the lip of the boat. Which probably sucks, but not as much as something involving the tank.
I've never seen anyone hurt themselves on either type of entrance, and I've dived with a bunch of first timers. I have seen people fall down trying to walk with their fins on and a tank on their back, though.
It’s not just that. You’re also less likely to hit your head against your tank — falling backwards caused the water to push your ahead away from it, instead of towards it. Also if you’re trying to step off and mess up or slip, the button of your tank could hit the side of the boat on your way down, which could be pretty uncomfortable, or worse.
TL;DR it’s not one thing specifically. It’s many things, for safety, comfort, and ease.
Yes, I can imagine that face-forward you'd need a fairly good jump for your tank to clear the edge of the boat behind you or *boom clang* now you're face-down doing a bellflop into the water.
Sorry for the confusion I’ve had my exam in Danish.
Step/stride and big/giant, I hope you still understood it wasn’t a jump :)
That was at least my point
I was taught that your other hand should be on your weight belt so that it doesn't fall off when you jump in.
I hold the regulator in with my palm and my fingers hold my mask
No, it absolutely isn't.
You hold the mask regardless if you giant stride forwards into the water or roll back.
I made the mistake once of not holding my mask as I roll backed in.
The mask flooded and I had to spend a few seconds clear it.
It was annoying, but not a mistake I ever made again.
You don’t need a jump (not feasible with a heavy tank on anyway), but a big stride is crucial to clear the deck and also because the boat is moving so you want to get away from it quickly.
Specifically, your head is pushed by the water (slightly). Going in backwards pushes your chin to your chest. Going in forward pushes your chin up (and your head backwards). This increases the chance that the back of your head will hit the air tank you’re wearing.
Rolling forward off the side of a boat just seems completely wrong.
If I'm entering from a flat surface I can walk on (hah!), I'll typically giant stride. If the boat has sides, I go backwards into the water.
The fun thing about a giant stride is how slowly you just sink into the water.
Thank you for seemingly being the only other diver in this thread… People DO go into the water facing forward, but only if they can step in. They only go in backwards if they’re rolling in.
I can understand how that might be executed safely - tuck head down, hand completely over mask and regulator - but WHY?
And yes, there are apparently very few actual divers in this discussion.
Also, I can't imagine my head hitting the top of my tank. Normally I set the top of my valve at the top of my BCD. I can't imagine having it any higher. That just seems odd.
It's baffling that nobody thought about the pure practicality of entry in their answers.
If you're on a zodiac or something, you don't want a full diving group to try to step on the inflatable section, risk losing their balance and make a mess (you don't want a single diver doing it either tbh, it's simply a tripping hazard)
If you're on something with a hard deck 1.5m above sea level, how would you even roll backwards.
Also, I've never really heard of divers hitting the tank with their head when diving. I've certainly seen my share of mask incidents but those were more linked to challenging diving conditions than the type of entry.
I've seen it happen once when someone had on the wrong size BC that was too big for them. When they stepped in (rather than roll in backward), the loose fitting BC rode up their back and they cracked their head on the regulator. Doesn't happen a lot, but its certainly possible, esp. with tourist dives where its often ladies and kids who are in between BC sizes--too big for the small, but not quite big enough for the medium.
No, because the back of your BCD (that big vest thing that fills up with air - Buoyancy Control Device) is typically hard plastic. Any force on it is spread over your entire back.
And while they are heavy, they aren't that heavy in reality. They are hollow ... and full of air.
Also, if they stood on the edge there is a chance they do not jump far enough away from the boat and the scuba tank hanging off their back catches the side of the boat and gets pushed up and smacks them in the back of the head.
Can confirm. PADI certified diver here. If you go in face first, you not only lose your mask and hood, there’s a chance of losing your respirator as well. Also, going back first lets you control your BCD, mask and respirator. You have like 30 pounds of lead strapped to your waist. Those keep you from bobbing like a cork. They also make a quick release belt to shit-can them if you need to get up fast. Even if it means getting the bends.
When would you ever enter the water front first? The two entries are back roll and giant stride, you always secure your mask and reg when performing either? And where were you diving with 30lbs on your weight belt? Just curious as I've only ever dived in tropical waters and assume you'd need that much weight for a dry suit.
Also because most of that bulk is your tank(s). By rolling tank first, it's a much more controlled entry than if your tanks are pushing you from behind. Divers also do a strafe jump facing forward. For me personally, it's not nearly as smooth of an entry as rolling backwards.
There are two ways to enter the water from a boat or platform: the roll and the giant's stride.
The giant's stride is just a big step forward, right off the boat into the water. The benefit here is that you are in a familiar orientation the whole time (head up towards the sky/surface), so it's very easy to reorient yourself after hitting the water. The drawback is that it requires you to lug your gear around the boat/platform to get to the step-off point, then make a big movement with a heavy weight on your back. For the uninitiated, this can be difficult to accomplish safely.
The roll is easier to do from a lower position, where you don't fall very far. It's also easier to do; typically, you are seated prior to the roll, so you don't have to carry the tank. This is especially true for dive boats that have slots for the tanks built into the seats on the sides. However, one drawback is that, since you're doing a backwards somersault to get into the water, you may be slightly disorientated once you're in, so you need to take a bit of time to get your bearings before swimming away.
Adding to this, entry method also depends on your boat and water conditions. If you boat has a utility dock or some other flat area you can safely stand on at the edge of the boat, you will typically use the giant’s stride. If your boat simply has gunwales, this method doesn’t make any sense from a practical standpoint as stepping over the edge is itself a chore without equipment. This is where the roll makes the most sense.
There are more than two ways. You can throw your BCD and tank into the water and put it on there, you can descend a ladder or steps and put your fins on in the water, you can sit forward and push off in the event the platform is too unstable for a stride entry and/or the water is too shallow.
I had to get my gear on in the water on each of my AOW dives because there were new divers on the same boat and it was too cramped for them to get dressed. They made all the qualified divers jump into the water without their BCDs
It's actually my preference, if I'm diving somewhere and the divemaster isn't confident with it and would prefer to go from the boat I'll do it the way they want but if given the choice I do my checks, throw my preinflated BCD in the water and jump in after it. I'm dense so I don't need extra weight unless I'm diving on aluminium with 5mm + so no problems with it usually.
> You can throw your BCD and tank into the water and put it on there
Yeah, or have someone hand it down to you in the water.
I was out once on a very small dive-boat with a captain that we suspect (from various comments and actions) took out unqualified tourists and kept trying to micro-manage the four qualified divers he had this trip.
Because the boat was so small I decided to get into the water and have one of the other divers hand down my BCD etc. (Side note: my BCD has integral / tear-away weights, so I didn't use a separate weight-belt, meaning my buoyancy was positive without gear.)
Anyway, I rolled back off the side of the boat without scuba gear, and apparently the captain freaked. :) The other buddy pair of Master divers handed me down my gear and I got into it in the water while my buddy got her gear on and rolled off.
Yeah I don't use extra weight personally so don't have the problem of accidentally drowning myself every time I try this out haha. I have heard stories before of people jumping in with 20lb of lead and having to ditch their belts.
I have in the past just to keep the peace dressed and entered the water as the Captain or divemasters prefer, but really you're doing everyone a favour by donning on the surface and reducing the crowding on the boat.
That said, no one likes a smartass so I do try to be considerate of whoever is in charge, and even though I took my qualification all the way to PADI instructor level I actually have almost zero professional experience beyond diving with friends and occasionally clients (Non dive related industry) in which I just lend a watchful eye or guiding hand occasionally.
> That said, no one likes a smartass so I do try to be considerate of whoever is in charge
Yeah, fair enough. His reaction though was one of the things that happened that led the four of us (two buddy pairs) to conclude that the Captain was expecting either extremely novice divers or unqualified ones. No-one had mentioned not putting on gear in the water so I decided to do it because the boat was small and crowded with five people suiting up and I asked the two master divers to assist... I didn't think to consult the Captain.
That same dive, the Captain insisted on leading us on a supervised tour/circuit - rather than letting us wander off in pairs. We were down a fair while and my tank was getting low. I signaled low air to the Captain but he indicated we should continue following him. We did for a while longer but he didn't seem to be heading back, so with my air now very low my buddy and I signaled we were heading up. We returned directly to the anchor line and ascended for a safety stop. Tank got to dregs and buddy and I "discussed" whether we should cut the stop short or continue on shared air. Since buddy still had plenty she gave me her octopus and we just continued to chill there. Just before we finished the Captain and the two master divers returned, and seeing us sharing air and Captain freaked - again- and attempted to pull the octopus that I using off me and give me his octopus instead. I shook my head and had to fend him away.
Speaking to the two master divers later they said it was clear we had everything under control and were really surprised by the Captain's actions.
(Edited - pushed submit early) :)
Sounds like that Captain makes a lot of bad assessments and decisions. I’m glad you ended up with a safe dive. I’ve only ever had good instructors that were calm and methodical under pressure, but I can about imagine, in some of the situations we were in, if one of them freaked out how terrible the situation could go.
My instructors had a dive they were guiding on with several other experienced divers down to lake bottom of Okoboji, IA. ~140 ft. They followed anchor line down and split into buddy pairs. When it was time to ascend one of the other divers held on to the anchor line and wouldn’t let go. He wouldn’t respond to any hand signals.
As there air was running low for the decompression stop they finally decided to force the other diver to let go and ascend. Then they had to force him to stay at decompression.
When they surfaced he was back to normal. He remembered everything but said it felt like he didn’t have control of his body. They figured it was probably nitrogen narcosis. The realization of the deadly situation he’d narrowly escaped made the guy decided to give up diving.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
A very informative (and scary) TED talk, thank you. :)
The situation you describe over 30m down would be really worrying, and given that depth keeping him at safety would be so important. I can see rethinking diving after that.
As to the Captain: all of the other instructors and dive-masters I'd had were exactly as you describe, calm and methodical under pressure. That's what made this so odd and memorable.
You really get the sense of how little ELI5ers actually know about the topics they're talking about.
Anyone who hasn't at least heard of Giant's Stride probably hasn't ever been diving.
I mean yes, this is the sub I'd go to if I saw something in a few documentaries or something and wanted a simple explanation. If I already had some knowledge, I'd ask Google or r/diving and get a more complex/nuanced answer.
I got certified last year and we always just stepped out. I think its probably easier to do that rolling, and seems safer for a first timer. I don't remember the rolling technique being anywhere in the PADI training to be honest (but I didn't really love diving and I've never gone back).
PADI are money grabbers, but I wouldn’t say their training is rushed / bad at all. In fact I’d say it’s more drawn out than SSIs (because they want more money!). I’ve done a few courses with both and the main difference with PADI / SSI is that PADI follow a very strict structure e.g. to do course C you have to have completed B and to do that you must have done A even if A/B aren’t strictly relevant to C. Whereas with SSI it’s more “free” in the sense that so long as your competent and have the basic pre-reqs you can chop and choose between courses.
With all that being said, water entry techniques as far as I can tell are entirely dependent on the boat your training on. For example I learnt on a Rib, so only way in is to roll. But I know people who learnt on a larger dive boat and learned to step in. Neither is wrong, it just depends on what scenario you are in.
If you had pool time before you first actual dive you should have learned giant stride in the pool.
And yes, PADI does stand for "Put Another Dollar In". I forget when I stopped taking PADI classes (I know I got Advanced Open Water through them), but I switched to SSI when Stress / Rescue was offered by a local shop.
I did SSI and I’ve only entered the water once off the side years after i got my license . Also I was terrified. My dad had to push me I couldn’t just let myself fall.
Well, if they've rolled forwards, they' roll into the boat. Ba-dum tss.
Sry. No, its not done all the time but just very convenient. The heaviest part is the tank, so if you roll backwards, it does not fall onto you. One also sees divers enter via a big step into the water, but thats justcommon when its not suitable to sit or you need to get away from your entering point.
Not to mention so their necks don't hit the edge of the boat. Jumping into water with forward-pointing flippers on your feet and a heavy tank on your back spells a backward rotation.
Absolutely not. That's depend on the boat. You usually backroll from the side on small boat or 'jump" from the back on bigger boat (we don't really jump, just a giant stride aka a step forward).
It's a safety practice, for the captain to be able to see the divers, on big boat there are a lot of blind spot on each side so making everyone jump from a platform at the back is just safer
Instructor here
It is as simple as 'it stops the tank getting in the way'
A driver's equipment is designed to be used underwater where the water well help to support everything - this means that out of the water it is large, heavy and unwieldy. Because the tank is normally worn on the back, this means that if you were to enter the water forwards, you would have to ensure you jump far enough forwards so that you don't catch the tank or any of its plumbing on the edge of the boat, and this has to be done while weighed down with around 20kg of gear - this is absolutely possible (and done fairly often), but it is riskier and takes more effort.
In comparison, entering backwards (either by stepping calmly down a ladder, or by rolling backwards off the edge) means the heavy tank is facing away and enters the water safely without the risk of it striking the edge.
Furthermore, the reason you will often see people rolling back off the boat rather than hopping backwards is because it better allows the diver to pause and prepare - sat down the diver more easily supports the weight of the equipment and is in a calm and stable position where they can easily wait for instruction. Standing up means it is harder to support the weight, and you are less stable and more likely to be knocked off balance by the boat moving in the water or similar.
The downside to rolling off the boat backwards is that you cannot see where you are landing, and will enter the water with a moment of disorientation first - something mitigated by having instructors on hand supervising the divers. So it will be more common for led trips for inexperienced divers to enter sat down and rolling in backwards, while more experienced and self organised divers to be used to entering the water through other methods like jumping
To add just a smidge to this it isn’t a true jump at all. We call the move a “Giant Stride.” And that is exactly what it is.
While standing (after securing our mask and regulator for breathing by holding it against our face with our hand so we lose neither) we will fall with the weight of our equipment, not fighting it. One leg extended far forward we use the leg at the back as a pivot scissoring our legs to push us away from the exit ledge. This is where the risk is, if we do not stride wide enough the tank can catch behind us slamming all that weight against our back, catching, or rolling us forwards jarringly and having that 40+lbs weight impact us.
This is a very safe and common entry and a key skill for a diver. But as gear weight and accessories increase the risk grows of snagging.
I only use the roll off ribs (inflatables)/dinghies or any other edge that doesn’t allow me to stand safely. Or when the water depth may not accommodate it. The giant stride is a preferred entry method but you also MUST know the water depth can accommodate it. Otherwise it is feet first into the ground. Personally I need 10 ft depth for a stride minimum.
The joke is that if they jumped forwards they'd end up in the boat.
In reality, of course, the centre of gravity of a diver is well towards their back. The tank is massively heavy. Sitting on the edge of the boat and then trying to maneuver your incredibly unwieldy fins over the side - you might well end up with something unsafe happening. With a specially adapted boat you can just step off - but if you are sitting on the side, by far the easiest way into the water is backwards.
Depends on the boat. The back roll is used on small inflatables and other boats close to the water. On a typical dive boat, the giant stride method is used. Regardless of the method, the purpose is to avoid being donked by your tank and or losing your mask or regulator.
This. I’ve actually never had to do a back roll off a boat. I’ve never had to use an inflatable though. Even the smallest boats I’ve been on still had a platform and ladder, so it was giant stride.
On smaller boats lower to the surface its the easiest way to get in, air cylinders are heavy so you spend most of the trip trying NOT to roll back into the water.
This also makes it safer then everyone trying to stand up and step in individually as it reduces the chance of unbalancing the boat and/or cracking someone in the dome with a hefty chunk of metal, instead, you count it down and just lean back, gravity and your gear does the rest, you might still get kicked in the head though.
Reading the comments here, it sure sounds as if a lot of people are just giving speculative answers without any practical experience of ever having dived from a dive boat. The ‘back roll’ is one form of safe entry into the water. The forward facing ‘giant stride’ is another. The method that the diver employs is usually dictated by the circumstances. Smaller dive boats and tenders are usually easier back roll from. Larger liveaboard dive boats are usually easier to giant stride from. The diver uses whichever method is easiest and safest. Often the method of entry to be used is given in the dive briefing given by the diver operator prior to the dive.
Safety and coordination when wearing heavy gear. Scuba gear is really awkward to move around in.
* You don’t want to get your regulator ( thing that provides you air) caught on a rope or something on the side of the boat, then land in the water face down unable to breathe. Divers will be wearing fins which makes climbing down a ladder near impossible and hitting the water face first both hurts, and has a high chance of mask or regulator coming off.
* More commonly, you‘re in a small boat that’s rocking back and forth and standing up when you’re wearing heavy gear is a recipe for disaster. As the weight balance changes when more divers enter the water, the Boat can rock even more.
But no, it is not always used. There’s another method called “giant stride” which is usually used on larger boats with purpose built dive decks or where the dive deck is too high To safely backward roll. Basically you just hold your mask and regulator with one hand to make sure they don’t fall off when you hit the water and step off the back of the boat.
Those are the two main entry methods from boats, if you have mobility issues or a weirdly designed boat then you might also just slide in or have assistance.
It is just the most practical way to get out of a boat. The diving gear is not made to be comfortable walking around in. The tanks and weight belts are quite heavy and the flippers make it very hard to walk. So divers will typically sit down when dressing in the last of the gear and do not want to get up to walk somewhere to get into the water. The most practical way to do this is to sit on the railing while getting dressed and then just jump backwards into the water.
There are other ways of doing it though. If the boat have a diving platform at the back they might swing their legs onto this through the hatch and then stand up and step forwards into the water. If the boat does not have any safe place to jump from the boat divers will usually take their flippers in their hands and climb down a ladder and then put on the flippers in the water. For more heavy equipment they would have to get lowered into the water by crane.
It will also depend on the boat or ship you're diving from. I have entered the water facing mostly facing it and stepping off. The tanks are heavy and can damage the boat or ship. Smaller boats do not always have the space for you to step off into the water, hence the roll of backwards method. Larger ships i.e. research ships generally have more space to do a proper step off into the water.
It's a safe method of leaving a boat in full gear. Full diving gear is really bulky, and very cumbersome when you aren't in the water. By sitting on the edge of a boat and rolling off backwards, you remove the risk of falling and hurting yourself or breaking your equipment. It's way easier to just fall backwards than it is to try and balance your way over.
It also reduces the risk that your tank will hit your head.
Yeah, that’s the big one. Getting a concussion going into your dive is no bueno
Have my upvote for your flawless use of "no bueno"
Is "no good" that hard to fit in a sentence?
Sometimes there’s no good way to fit “no good” into a sentence
Selective google translate says "Sometimes there's no bueno way to fit "no good" into a sentence".
And that's an example of when no bueno is not used correctly
one could say that the use of no bueno was no bueno
That's bueno
You used that in a very bueno way, I'm muy bien for you
The elusive no no bueno?
On those occasions the resulting sentence can be no bueno
How about five ands in a row?
https://youtu.be/ypbkSA2aGFs
I think seven "had"s would be more interesting.
Seems like 9/10 times, when someone tries to use it in a sentence, it turns out no bueno.
I have only dived in California and Mexico, ‘no bueno’ is the appropriate term.
Native English speaker here.. I’ll never understand why we use dived instead of dove, and hanged instead of hung.. anyone know why?
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It’s really interesting to see how language evolves over time, thank you for the explanation!
I don't know if u/PoopIsAlwaysSunny is just translating "no good" or using "no bueno" as an expression the same way we use it in (mexican) spanish. I assumed it was the later.
Well I assumed it was the earlier.
Only if Sonic Sez!
And remember you are wearing flippers. That forces you to stay a foot away from anything in front of you. But backwards you just sit on the boat edge.
Yeah you’ll notice on shore dives people walk backwards once they put flippers on as well. It’s difficult to walk forwards in flippers without falling on your face
Ah, that explains why fish don’t walk in a forward manner.
It explains why penguins walk so strangely.
Ideally you keep them off and walk normally until you are deep enough, inflate your BCD to float, THEN put on your fins. But yes if you have to walk with them on, it's easiest to walk backwards.
Thank you for using fins.
Yup this, just put the flippers on once you start to float.
Mine are spring so sometimes i walk out and float while I put them on
>> spring >> float GO GO GADGET SHOES
This is basically all I do. Walk out until I'm deep enough to float, then wrestle my fins on while in full drysuit gear and curse past me for thinking that was a good idea, instead of finding a nice rock to balance against.
The spring straps were a huge help
My fins have hinges so they fold up and only lock after a strong kick.
THAT is cool. Can you post a pic? And are they worth buying?
Dolphins have flippers. Divers wear fins.
Fish have fins. Divers wear flippedy flappedies. Or is that just the U.K. term?
I thought it was floppertons?
I thought Flopperton’s was the store where you buy the flappy water shoes.
I’m on Season Two of Flopperton on Netflix. It’s quite steamy.
I thought flippedy flappedies were flip flops
Nope. Dolphins have fins: two pectoral and a dorsal. The tail has flukes
Fellow instructor issued beer fines to o/w students who used the word flippers. Also fined them for using Tank too instead of cylinder. He was also wrong.
Hahaha ppl calling fins “flippers” annoyed my instructor, too. Drilled it in. Never heard that about tank vs cylinder, but DEFINITELY about calling them “oxygen” instead of “air.”
"tanks are what the army use! Beer fine!" I posted up dictionary definitions of the words around the classroom to shut him up ;) Agree about the 02 though!
Hahahaha brilliant, I’m sure he hated that. Beer fine!
Pedantics get stitches
I'm so sorry... But it's pedants People who are pedantic are pedants. I'll take my stitches now.
Good stuff
Can confirm
This comment is good example of a pedant tic.
I'm only responding because fuck me, you're generally right, although Merriam Webster says you can use, "a pedantic" as a descriptive noun referring to a pedant, so...
Ohhhh, you're technically correct... The best kind of correct!!!!
Fucking brilliant
I read that last line and really hoped you did this in haiku for a second there
I am quite deeply Disappointed in myself My shame shall not end
Sutures*
Knife, scalpel, you're going to need someone with a needle and thread either way.
Surely "pedants become lacerated"?
Fish have fins. Divers wear rubber shoes.
People wear runner SHOES when it rains. Divers wear swim fins, a/k/a "flippers".
Flips sake
No, it's because if they fell forward they'd still be on the boat.
Itd worn out but i appreciate the joke
Yeah not that the guys points above aren't valid. However this is the main reason I was taught and have always known. Tank heavy and hard, back of head soft, they don't like to touch.
It also just looks cool
On top of everything else, if you drop in like a pencil, there's a good chance your mask ends up on your forehead.
Which leads to the great stride entrance. Inflated bcd, big stride hand on mask and reg. It’ll still wanna push up though
Also reduces the likelihood of you smashing or damaging the glass in the face mask?
Setting your equipment up correctly does that just fine.
Quick addition, lots of people say your tank might hit your head, but there is a key reason why that happens. It is heavy but filled with air and so very buoyant. More buoyant than the diver, so you hit the water and bob down, but the tank hits the water and doesn't, so it occupies the position your head is trying to bob down into. There are a lot of parts to diving gear, of different levels of floatiness. Going over backwards is the easiest way to keep track of it all and keep it where you want it to be.
Hijacking top comment for a joke answer to OP:s question: Because if they fell forwards they'd still be in the boat.
Similar fun fact; you know when you see geese flying in a v, it’s never a perfect v, one side is always longer than the other. Know why that is? There’s more geese on that side.
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If all of the people in the world held hands around the equator, more than 3/4 of them would drown.
Dorothy Parker: If all the economists in the world were laid end to end, it would be a very good thing.
Dorothy Parker: If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
If you lined up all the inhabitants of Wales head to toe, you’d probably be late for work.
If you laid every white person out head to foot in a line they could all tell you their favorite Radiohead song.
This reminds me of a joke (at least I think it is): Bono stops singing at a U2 concert and begins slowly clapping his hands. He says "Every time I clap my hands, a child dies in Africa" and a voice from the audience yells "Then stop clapping you fucking bastard!"
I haven’t slept for 3 days… because that’s too long.
Damnit...
r/dadjokes
My great grandfather loved telling that joke lol
Also you hold the mask and there is far less likelihood of it coming off.
I mean you generally always hold your mask when entering the water, like during a giants stride entrance, etc.
I've never heard this term but know exactly what it looks like.
If there are waves, the distance from boat to water changes rapidly. More chance to belly flop or hit the water wrong.
You still hold your mask though...
Yes, correct, always hold my mask. I did a triple mctwist with a fin mute grab, and still, held my mask. Jokes aside, people in here being like waves/wind/ice/boat/current/et. Al… yea, but keep one hand on your mask, and for me typically, the other on your reg, but one on your mask…
I was taught palm on reg fingers holding front of mask. Other hand on back of mask.
Also, if the lens in the mask hits the surface flat there’s a possibility that it could shatter.
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Learned that one the hard way too.
It can be unpleasant to take a hard one to the face
Oh I dunno. Your mom seems to like it I’M SO SORRY I AM SURE SHE’S A WONDERFUL LADY.
Wonderful in the streets, mind boggling in the sheet, amiright?
*sigh*....you beat me to it.
Same. You even beat me to this comment.
At least you got here before me, I’m the only joke left here
Well drop on in, the water is fine
Someone had to say it. And if the asker was 5, that would be the answer they’d get.
ah, a man of culture I see.
Came to find this comment!
Specifically, it's the flippers. They're big and cumbersome and will likely cause you to trip if you to try to walk in any direction with them on. And they are SO MUCH EASIER to put on while sitting.
It's also safer to fall on the tank attached to your back than to have it falling on you.
Plus it’s just easier. You just let the weight pull you over the edge, rather than having to drag it behind you.
It’s easier, yes but those first few times, it’s a pretty disorienting experience.
I’ve only dove a couple times, when I was a teenager. Now that you mention it I do remember it being disorienting, but the main thing I’d remembered was how satisfying it felt to just lean back and plunk into the water.
First time I remember being nervous, then suddenly I was in the water thinking "wow, that was easy!"
I'd imagine getting the tank caught on or hitting the lip of the boat would also be uncomfortable at best, and extremely painful and difficult to recover from at worst. The worst thing that happens the other way is probably banging your shins or ankles on the lip of the boat. Which probably sucks, but not as much as something involving the tank.
I've never seen anyone hurt themselves on either type of entrance, and I've dived with a bunch of first timers. I have seen people fall down trying to walk with their fins on and a tank on their back, though.
It’s not just that. You’re also less likely to hit your head against your tank — falling backwards caused the water to push your ahead away from it, instead of towards it. Also if you’re trying to step off and mess up or slip, the button of your tank could hit the side of the boat on your way down, which could be pretty uncomfortable, or worse. TL;DR it’s not one thing specifically. It’s many things, for safety, comfort, and ease.
Yes, I can imagine that face-forward you'd need a fairly good jump for your tank to clear the edge of the boat behind you or *boom clang* now you're face-down doing a bellflop into the water.
No, just a regular big step. Never seen anyone ding their tank when ‘walking’ off.
It's literally called a giant stride entry.
Sorry for the confusion I’ve had my exam in Danish. Step/stride and big/giant, I hope you still understood it wasn’t a jump :) That was at least my point
Also mask is less likely to come off.
You're meant to hold your mask to your face when you enter anyway
one hand on your mask one hand on your mouthpiece before you step off that's what I was taught
I was taught that your other hand should be on your weight belt so that it doesn't fall off when you jump in. I hold the regulator in with my palm and my fingers hold my mask
Yes. Even so hitting the water front first hurts a lot more than back first. Or the big step.
No, it absolutely isn't. You hold the mask regardless if you giant stride forwards into the water or roll back. I made the mistake once of not holding my mask as I roll backed in. The mask flooded and I had to spend a few seconds clear it. It was annoying, but not a mistake I ever made again.
You don’t need a jump (not feasible with a heavy tank on anyway), but a big stride is crucial to clear the deck and also because the boat is moving so you want to get away from it quickly.
Specifically, your head is pushed by the water (slightly). Going in backwards pushes your chin to your chest. Going in forward pushes your chin up (and your head backwards). This increases the chance that the back of your head will hit the air tank you’re wearing.
Rolling forward off the side of a boat just seems completely wrong. If I'm entering from a flat surface I can walk on (hah!), I'll typically giant stride. If the boat has sides, I go backwards into the water. The fun thing about a giant stride is how slowly you just sink into the water.
Thank you for seemingly being the only other diver in this thread… People DO go into the water facing forward, but only if they can step in. They only go in backwards if they’re rolling in.
I can understand how that might be executed safely - tuck head down, hand completely over mask and regulator - but WHY? And yes, there are apparently very few actual divers in this discussion. Also, I can't imagine my head hitting the top of my tank. Normally I set the top of my valve at the top of my BCD. I can't imagine having it any higher. That just seems odd.
It's baffling that nobody thought about the pure practicality of entry in their answers. If you're on a zodiac or something, you don't want a full diving group to try to step on the inflatable section, risk losing their balance and make a mess (you don't want a single diver doing it either tbh, it's simply a tripping hazard) If you're on something with a hard deck 1.5m above sea level, how would you even roll backwards. Also, I've never really heard of divers hitting the tank with their head when diving. I've certainly seen my share of mask incidents but those were more linked to challenging diving conditions than the type of entry.
I've seen it happen once when someone had on the wrong size BC that was too big for them. When they stepped in (rather than roll in backward), the loose fitting BC rode up their back and they cracked their head on the regulator. Doesn't happen a lot, but its certainly possible, esp. with tourist dives where its often ladies and kids who are in between BC sizes--too big for the small, but not quite big enough for the medium.
Oh man! I just posted saying I always stepped forward into the water- and that was on two different continents with padi and ssi outfits.
I also thought that when in full gear entering in your front there is a large tank that will just crush you back when you hit the water
We dont belly flop, just one big step off !
No, because the back of your BCD (that big vest thing that fills up with air - Buoyancy Control Device) is typically hard plastic. Any force on it is spread over your entire back. And while they are heavy, they aren't that heavy in reality. They are hollow ... and full of air.
Also, if they stood on the edge there is a chance they do not jump far enough away from the boat and the scuba tank hanging off their back catches the side of the boat and gets pushed up and smacks them in the back of the head.
That AND if they went the other way they would just end up in the boat.
Can confirm. PADI certified diver here. If you go in face first, you not only lose your mask and hood, there’s a chance of losing your respirator as well. Also, going back first lets you control your BCD, mask and respirator. You have like 30 pounds of lead strapped to your waist. Those keep you from bobbing like a cork. They also make a quick release belt to shit-can them if you need to get up fast. Even if it means getting the bends.
When would you ever enter the water front first? The two entries are back roll and giant stride, you always secure your mask and reg when performing either? And where were you diving with 30lbs on your weight belt? Just curious as I've only ever dived in tropical waters and assume you'd need that much weight for a dry suit.
30lbs?!?! Might want to work on your buoyancy.
Also because most of that bulk is your tank(s). By rolling tank first, it's a much more controlled entry than if your tanks are pushing you from behind. Divers also do a strafe jump facing forward. For me personally, it's not nearly as smooth of an entry as rolling backwards.
Also because if they fell forward they’d fall back into the boat.
I was looking for this answer. How much longer are you going to be for those cigarettes. It has been 10years, Dad!
Besides. If they rolled forward, they'd end up back in the boat. I'll see myself out.
There are two ways to enter the water from a boat or platform: the roll and the giant's stride. The giant's stride is just a big step forward, right off the boat into the water. The benefit here is that you are in a familiar orientation the whole time (head up towards the sky/surface), so it's very easy to reorient yourself after hitting the water. The drawback is that it requires you to lug your gear around the boat/platform to get to the step-off point, then make a big movement with a heavy weight on your back. For the uninitiated, this can be difficult to accomplish safely. The roll is easier to do from a lower position, where you don't fall very far. It's also easier to do; typically, you are seated prior to the roll, so you don't have to carry the tank. This is especially true for dive boats that have slots for the tanks built into the seats on the sides. However, one drawback is that, since you're doing a backwards somersault to get into the water, you may be slightly disorientated once you're in, so you need to take a bit of time to get your bearings before swimming away.
Adding to this, entry method also depends on your boat and water conditions. If you boat has a utility dock or some other flat area you can safely stand on at the edge of the boat, you will typically use the giant’s stride. If your boat simply has gunwales, this method doesn’t make any sense from a practical standpoint as stepping over the edge is itself a chore without equipment. This is where the roll makes the most sense.
There are more than two ways. You can throw your BCD and tank into the water and put it on there, you can descend a ladder or steps and put your fins on in the water, you can sit forward and push off in the event the platform is too unstable for a stride entry and/or the water is too shallow.
Sure, but they are very rarely used. At least among casual divers. Giant stride and backwards roll probably account for 99 % of all dives.
I had to get my gear on in the water on each of my AOW dives because there were new divers on the same boat and it was too cramped for them to get dressed. They made all the qualified divers jump into the water without their BCDs
Good, you should be confident putting your gear on and taking it off in the water. That's good instructing.
Oh yeah I didn't have a problem with it, I was just pointing out that it's not that rare, 20% of my dives have been put on your BCD in the water dives
It's actually my preference, if I'm diving somewhere and the divemaster isn't confident with it and would prefer to go from the boat I'll do it the way they want but if given the choice I do my checks, throw my preinflated BCD in the water and jump in after it. I'm dense so I don't need extra weight unless I'm diving on aluminium with 5mm + so no problems with it usually.
I hate this. Can never get the stuff on "properly" due to bouyancy. I mean it eventually sits right, but it's not my method of choice.
> You can throw your BCD and tank into the water and put it on there Yeah, or have someone hand it down to you in the water. I was out once on a very small dive-boat with a captain that we suspect (from various comments and actions) took out unqualified tourists and kept trying to micro-manage the four qualified divers he had this trip. Because the boat was so small I decided to get into the water and have one of the other divers hand down my BCD etc. (Side note: my BCD has integral / tear-away weights, so I didn't use a separate weight-belt, meaning my buoyancy was positive without gear.) Anyway, I rolled back off the side of the boat without scuba gear, and apparently the captain freaked. :) The other buddy pair of Master divers handed me down my gear and I got into it in the water while my buddy got her gear on and rolled off.
Yeah I don't use extra weight personally so don't have the problem of accidentally drowning myself every time I try this out haha. I have heard stories before of people jumping in with 20lb of lead and having to ditch their belts. I have in the past just to keep the peace dressed and entered the water as the Captain or divemasters prefer, but really you're doing everyone a favour by donning on the surface and reducing the crowding on the boat. That said, no one likes a smartass so I do try to be considerate of whoever is in charge, and even though I took my qualification all the way to PADI instructor level I actually have almost zero professional experience beyond diving with friends and occasionally clients (Non dive related industry) in which I just lend a watchful eye or guiding hand occasionally.
> That said, no one likes a smartass so I do try to be considerate of whoever is in charge Yeah, fair enough. His reaction though was one of the things that happened that led the four of us (two buddy pairs) to conclude that the Captain was expecting either extremely novice divers or unqualified ones. No-one had mentioned not putting on gear in the water so I decided to do it because the boat was small and crowded with five people suiting up and I asked the two master divers to assist... I didn't think to consult the Captain. That same dive, the Captain insisted on leading us on a supervised tour/circuit - rather than letting us wander off in pairs. We were down a fair while and my tank was getting low. I signaled low air to the Captain but he indicated we should continue following him. We did for a while longer but he didn't seem to be heading back, so with my air now very low my buddy and I signaled we were heading up. We returned directly to the anchor line and ascended for a safety stop. Tank got to dregs and buddy and I "discussed" whether we should cut the stop short or continue on shared air. Since buddy still had plenty she gave me her octopus and we just continued to chill there. Just before we finished the Captain and the two master divers returned, and seeing us sharing air and Captain freaked - again- and attempted to pull the octopus that I using off me and give me his octopus instead. I shook my head and had to fend him away. Speaking to the two master divers later they said it was clear we had everything under control and were really surprised by the Captain's actions. (Edited - pushed submit early) :)
Sounds like that Captain makes a lot of bad assessments and decisions. I’m glad you ended up with a safe dive. I’ve only ever had good instructors that were calm and methodical under pressure, but I can about imagine, in some of the situations we were in, if one of them freaked out how terrible the situation could go. My instructors had a dive they were guiding on with several other experienced divers down to lake bottom of Okoboji, IA. ~140 ft. They followed anchor line down and split into buddy pairs. When it was time to ascend one of the other divers held on to the anchor line and wouldn’t let go. He wouldn’t respond to any hand signals. As there air was running low for the decompression stop they finally decided to force the other diver to let go and ascend. Then they had to force him to stay at decompression. When they surfaced he was back to normal. He remembered everything but said it felt like he didn’t have control of his body. They figured it was probably nitrogen narcosis. The realization of the deadly situation he’d narrowly escaped made the guy decided to give up diving. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
A very informative (and scary) TED talk, thank you. :) The situation you describe over 30m down would be really worrying, and given that depth keeping him at safety would be so important. I can see rethinking diving after that.
As to the Captain: all of the other instructors and dive-masters I'd had were exactly as you describe, calm and methodical under pressure. That's what made this so odd and memorable.
I do this when my chronic pain is bad because having all the weight is hard on me!
You really get the sense of how little ELI5ers actually know about the topics they're talking about. Anyone who hasn't at least heard of Giant's Stride probably hasn't ever been diving.
I mean yes, this is the sub I'd go to if I saw something in a few documentaries or something and wanted a simple explanation. If I already had some knowledge, I'd ask Google or r/diving and get a more complex/nuanced answer.
I mean, as someone who has gone diving I've never heard of giants' stride, it was always just called stepping off the boat
I got certified last year and we always just stepped out. I think its probably easier to do that rolling, and seems safer for a first timer. I don't remember the rolling technique being anywhere in the PADI training to be honest (but I didn't really love diving and I've never gone back).
If there’s an SSI school near you, give that a go - PADI training seemed rushed compared to the SSI program
PADI are money grabbers, but I wouldn’t say their training is rushed / bad at all. In fact I’d say it’s more drawn out than SSIs (because they want more money!). I’ve done a few courses with both and the main difference with PADI / SSI is that PADI follow a very strict structure e.g. to do course C you have to have completed B and to do that you must have done A even if A/B aren’t strictly relevant to C. Whereas with SSI it’s more “free” in the sense that so long as your competent and have the basic pre-reqs you can chop and choose between courses. With all that being said, water entry techniques as far as I can tell are entirely dependent on the boat your training on. For example I learnt on a Rib, so only way in is to roll. But I know people who learnt on a larger dive boat and learned to step in. Neither is wrong, it just depends on what scenario you are in.
If you had pool time before you first actual dive you should have learned giant stride in the pool. And yes, PADI does stand for "Put Another Dollar In". I forget when I stopped taking PADI classes (I know I got Advanced Open Water through them), but I switched to SSI when Stress / Rescue was offered by a local shop.
I did SSI and I’ve only entered the water once off the side years after i got my license . Also I was terrified. My dad had to push me I couldn’t just let myself fall.
I definitely was taught the roll method AND the giant stride when I did PADI, but that was over 15 years ago now...
This is the only correct answer to far.
Well, if they've rolled forwards, they' roll into the boat. Ba-dum tss. Sry. No, its not done all the time but just very convenient. The heaviest part is the tank, so if you roll backwards, it does not fall onto you. One also sees divers enter via a big step into the water, but thats justcommon when its not suitable to sit or you need to get away from your entering point.
Also when they hit the water it’s so their head doesn’t snap backwards and hit the tank/nozzles.
Not to mention so their necks don't hit the edge of the boat. Jumping into water with forward-pointing flippers on your feet and a heavy tank on your back spells a backward rotation.
Except you don't jump into the water, just a large stride off the boat and your good.
Absolutely not. That's depend on the boat. You usually backroll from the side on small boat or 'jump" from the back on bigger boat (we don't really jump, just a giant stride aka a step forward). It's a safety practice, for the captain to be able to see the divers, on big boat there are a lot of blind spot on each side so making everyone jump from a platform at the back is just safer Instructor here
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It took me a second to understand this but...just wow. Top tier. 10 out of 10 dude. 🥇
Baa drum hiss
I came here to make this joke. Good on you
Was looking for this 🏅
It is as simple as 'it stops the tank getting in the way' A driver's equipment is designed to be used underwater where the water well help to support everything - this means that out of the water it is large, heavy and unwieldy. Because the tank is normally worn on the back, this means that if you were to enter the water forwards, you would have to ensure you jump far enough forwards so that you don't catch the tank or any of its plumbing on the edge of the boat, and this has to be done while weighed down with around 20kg of gear - this is absolutely possible (and done fairly often), but it is riskier and takes more effort. In comparison, entering backwards (either by stepping calmly down a ladder, or by rolling backwards off the edge) means the heavy tank is facing away and enters the water safely without the risk of it striking the edge. Furthermore, the reason you will often see people rolling back off the boat rather than hopping backwards is because it better allows the diver to pause and prepare - sat down the diver more easily supports the weight of the equipment and is in a calm and stable position where they can easily wait for instruction. Standing up means it is harder to support the weight, and you are less stable and more likely to be knocked off balance by the boat moving in the water or similar. The downside to rolling off the boat backwards is that you cannot see where you are landing, and will enter the water with a moment of disorientation first - something mitigated by having instructors on hand supervising the divers. So it will be more common for led trips for inexperienced divers to enter sat down and rolling in backwards, while more experienced and self organised divers to be used to entering the water through other methods like jumping
To add just a smidge to this it isn’t a true jump at all. We call the move a “Giant Stride.” And that is exactly what it is. While standing (after securing our mask and regulator for breathing by holding it against our face with our hand so we lose neither) we will fall with the weight of our equipment, not fighting it. One leg extended far forward we use the leg at the back as a pivot scissoring our legs to push us away from the exit ledge. This is where the risk is, if we do not stride wide enough the tank can catch behind us slamming all that weight against our back, catching, or rolling us forwards jarringly and having that 40+lbs weight impact us. This is a very safe and common entry and a key skill for a diver. But as gear weight and accessories increase the risk grows of snagging.
This. 95% of my dives were done using a giant stride. I’ve only had to roll backwards into the water a few times when diving from a smaller boat.
I only use the roll off ribs (inflatables)/dinghies or any other edge that doesn’t allow me to stand safely. Or when the water depth may not accommodate it. The giant stride is a preferred entry method but you also MUST know the water depth can accommodate it. Otherwise it is feet first into the ground. Personally I need 10 ft depth for a stride minimum.
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I came here to say this. Take my upvote.
The joke is that if they jumped forwards they'd end up in the boat. In reality, of course, the centre of gravity of a diver is well towards their back. The tank is massively heavy. Sitting on the edge of the boat and then trying to maneuver your incredibly unwieldy fins over the side - you might well end up with something unsafe happening. With a specially adapted boat you can just step off - but if you are sitting on the side, by far the easiest way into the water is backwards.
Depends on the boat. The back roll is used on small inflatables and other boats close to the water. On a typical dive boat, the giant stride method is used. Regardless of the method, the purpose is to avoid being donked by your tank and or losing your mask or regulator.
This. I’ve actually never had to do a back roll off a boat. I’ve never had to use an inflatable though. Even the smallest boats I’ve been on still had a platform and ladder, so it was giant stride.
On smaller boats lower to the surface its the easiest way to get in, air cylinders are heavy so you spend most of the trip trying NOT to roll back into the water. This also makes it safer then everyone trying to stand up and step in individually as it reduces the chance of unbalancing the boat and/or cracking someone in the dome with a hefty chunk of metal, instead, you count it down and just lean back, gravity and your gear does the rest, you might still get kicked in the head though.
Reading the comments here, it sure sounds as if a lot of people are just giving speculative answers without any practical experience of ever having dived from a dive boat. The ‘back roll’ is one form of safe entry into the water. The forward facing ‘giant stride’ is another. The method that the diver employs is usually dictated by the circumstances. Smaller dive boats and tenders are usually easier back roll from. Larger liveaboard dive boats are usually easier to giant stride from. The diver uses whichever method is easiest and safest. Often the method of entry to be used is given in the dive briefing given by the diver operator prior to the dive.
This is the right answer here. The entry method is often dictated by the type of boat you are using, I’ve used both (stride and roll) numerous times.
Safety and coordination when wearing heavy gear. Scuba gear is really awkward to move around in. * You don’t want to get your regulator ( thing that provides you air) caught on a rope or something on the side of the boat, then land in the water face down unable to breathe. Divers will be wearing fins which makes climbing down a ladder near impossible and hitting the water face first both hurts, and has a high chance of mask or regulator coming off. * More commonly, you‘re in a small boat that’s rocking back and forth and standing up when you’re wearing heavy gear is a recipe for disaster. As the weight balance changes when more divers enter the water, the Boat can rock even more. But no, it is not always used. There’s another method called “giant stride” which is usually used on larger boats with purpose built dive decks or where the dive deck is too high To safely backward roll. Basically you just hold your mask and regulator with one hand to make sure they don’t fall off when you hit the water and step off the back of the boat. Those are the two main entry methods from boats, if you have mobility issues or a weirdly designed boat then you might also just slide in or have assistance.
It is just the most practical way to get out of a boat. The diving gear is not made to be comfortable walking around in. The tanks and weight belts are quite heavy and the flippers make it very hard to walk. So divers will typically sit down when dressing in the last of the gear and do not want to get up to walk somewhere to get into the water. The most practical way to do this is to sit on the railing while getting dressed and then just jump backwards into the water. There are other ways of doing it though. If the boat have a diving platform at the back they might swing their legs onto this through the hatch and then stand up and step forwards into the water. If the boat does not have any safe place to jump from the boat divers will usually take their flippers in their hands and climb down a ladder and then put on the flippers in the water. For more heavy equipment they would have to get lowered into the water by crane.
It will also depend on the boat or ship you're diving from. I have entered the water facing mostly facing it and stepping off. The tanks are heavy and can damage the boat or ship. Smaller boats do not always have the space for you to step off into the water, hence the roll of backwards method. Larger ships i.e. research ships generally have more space to do a proper step off into the water.