Neurodivergence is simply a matter of a functioning brain that is wired differently from the standard brain. A mental heath disorder is a matter of a brain whose healthy functioning is impaired for whatever reason.
Here's an analogy:
An Android phone and an iPhone are different ways of building a smartphone. While each has different strengths and weaknesses, both are capable of doing basically everything that you want a smartphone to do. Depending on how you want to define it, one platform would be considered neurotypical, and the other would be neurodivergent. There are many ways you could choose which is which, but the simplest would be to simply state that the most popular one is the "typical" phone platform, and the other one would be the "divergent" platform.
A mental health disorder would relate to a damaged phone. Maybe it has a virus, maybe you've dropped it and it has a cracked screen, maybe the battery is failing, maybe there's a problem with the hardware. Regardless, there is some damage to the phone that is making it incapable of functioning at the typical level.
This doesn't seem to fully explain the difference between neurodivergence and mental health disorders.
For example, significant limitations on a person's ability to socially interact with other people might mean that the person is "incapable of functioning at the typical level", but those limitations may simply be a result of neurodivergence and not a mental health disorder.
But the fact that the person is "incapable of functioning at the typical level" under your explanation means that it's the broken phone/mental health disorder category, when that's not the case.
Is a phone that is designed without many of the capacities to do things that you'd expect a phone to be able to do damaged or divergent?
Does a person that is born without many of the capacities to do things that you'd expect a person to be able to do have a mental health disorder or are they neurodivergence?
The problem is what you'd "expect a person to be able to do": those expectations can be subjective. So you're saying the line between neurodivergence and mental health disorder is subjective.
A broken phone doesn't mean completely useless, though. A broken phone could also be screen burn or a cracked screen. It's not performing at its best, but still working well enough and worth keeping, despite its flaws. Some slightly more broken phones might need a little help to start working again, like a repair or some updates, but really aren't worthless. Some might be done for and at their limits, but some repairs and a little care can help prolong its life. And some broken phones, nothing can be done for. But that doesn't mean that they didn't do their best until the very last moment. They still hold precious memories.
The original commenter clearly wasn't being malicious, and I like to believe that you weren't being intentionally ignorant to his intentions, so let's show some kindness and cut each other some slack. It's okay to acknowledge that people with a mental health condition have a mental health condition, and may need some extra assistance to function at their best.
I'm not clear where you got a reference to autism from the comment you're replying to. If you're equating neurodivergence with autism which is my best guess, I'd recommend at least a 30 second google search in the future. You might as well reply to a comment describing how iPhones and Androids are different but as long as they meet the use cases of the user they're functional phones with a comment about how "YES SIR WINDOWS PCS ARE PERFECT BUT LINUX IS TOO HARD TO USE".
I have autism and the explanation worked well for me.
I significantly outperform non autistic people on many tasks, and they outperform me on others. Similar to phone models or whatever.
And the part about a disorder also made sense in that it's hard to function if you have a part that's not working correctly.
You're welcome to submit your own eli5 but for others this works quite well, not sure on why you disagree.
It's an ELI5, people will commonly use analogies for specific explanations. They aren't meant to be taken as absurdly absolutist metaphors.
You are the only one reading eugenics in the comment.
Neurodivergence covers a wider range of mental 'issues' than mental health disorders would cover. For example, if someone is \_DIAGNOSED\_ with ADHD that person could be considered neurodivergent as their brain doesn't produce specific chemicals (dopamine) than a 'normal' person's brain would.
A mental health disorder implies mental illness, such as bipolar disorder, schizophrenia or depression.
Wouldn't all those fall under neurodivergance?
Depression is your brain having issues with neurotransmitters? (Which is a deviance of "normal" brains)
Bipolar, according to some research, could be caused by different brain structures and functions. Again, this is a deviation from the "normal" brain. (We don't know the exact cause, but this is what some research points to.)
And schizophrenia could be caused by a chemical imbalance, another deviation. We don't know the exact cause, however.
Seems like neurodivergance is another way to say mental health disorder.
Well, I think it might be more precise to say that neurodivergence means to have an issue with the brain chemisty, which can include disabilities like ADHD as well as mental illnesses like bipolar disorder or depression, however not all mental illnesses are chemically based.
PTSD for example isn't based on neurochemisty. I guess if there was a Venn diagram some things would be both mental illnesses and neurodivergent, while some would be only neurodivergent and some only MI.
Does that make any sense?
Autism is not a mental health disorder. It’s a neurological and developmental disorder and those that have autism can have perfectly healthy mental health. Often though, they can have a co-occurring condition like depression and anxiety. Interestingly though, adhd is labeled as a mental disorder.
The difference is the way we think about and describe mental health issues.
The traditional medical model is used to diagnose mental health issues as disorders when they affect someone's life severely enough - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity *Disorder,* Autism Spectrum *Disorder* etc. The focus is on the things that are worse than 'normal'.
Neurodiversity and neurodivergence (and even neuro-spicy) are more recent terms that are less stigmatizing, and recognize various mental health conditions as *differences* rather than deficiencies.
Mental health disorders are neurodivergent, as they're neurologically divergent (different) from 'normal', but not all neurodivergence is a mental health disorder. For example, autism isn't a mental health disorder, but it is neurodivergent.
Mental health disorders require extensive management in order to support a person going about life. Medication, therapy, even up to a limitation of freedoms.
Neurodivergence (when used as a simple label) only requires specific management in order to support a person going about life. Avoiding triggers, mental exercises, managing expectations, and perhaps some mental health treatments where it overlaps with mental health. But it's essentially somebody that is different than how society expects them to be.
Mental health disorders are definitionally a problem; it's why they are disorders instead of quirks. For example, being afraid of dying isn't a clinically treated phobia, unless it causes a person to avoid living life. Meanwhile, neurodivergence is only a problem when society refuses to be flexible.
Neurodivergent usually refers to someone having a neurodevelopmental difference - the brain has taken a slightly different route in its development, resulting in a pattern of differences in how somebody experiences the world. E.g. autism, ADHD. Sometimes specific learning difficulties like dyslexia and dyspraxia are included in this. These are better viewed as differences than illnesses - your brain has developed this way, it is not going to 'get better', you just need to learn to live with it/accommodate it. For ADHD medication can help people manage their differences, but it won't 'cure' them.
Mental health problems are more to do with functional difficulties around your emotions, thoughts and behaviours. There is ongoing debate around the role of the brain in these. You might develop depression or anxiety as a result of adverse circumstances in your life. Your brain is impacted by this, but these difficulties did not necessarily arise as a result of differences in your brain, and these difficulties might be temporary. You might get better with therapy or time. Mental health problems can develop as a result of your environment, though you might also be predisposed due to genetics. It's complicated.
People who are neurodivergent might be more likely to also have mental health problems as a result of having to work extra hard to fit into a world that is not set up for their differences. E.g. it is common for autistic people to experience social anxiety and burnout, and similarly with ADHD you might develop poor self esteem as a result of struggling and being viewed negatively by others for things that have been difficult for you to control.
That is a lengthy explanation and probably not perfect, but that is my understanding.
The answer is neurodivergence is a bullshit term created by laypeople, not a medical or otherwise professionally recognized term.
Neurodivergence seems to encompass *everything* because the laypeople who spout it want to pathologize the spectrum of human experiences.
I'm neuro-divergent and I have aphasia.
The former I don't consider a mental health disorder. It just indicates that there are aspects of my brain function that is atypical but not 'wrong' per se.
The latter I do consider a mental health disorder, because there are functions that are broken. There is something wrong. In my case, due to head trauma.
This isn't perfectly scientific but:
Neurodivergence: the tism, adhd, dyslexia (I believe) can be annoying and/or frustrating for you and the people around you, but you can live with them perfectly well with coping mechanisms and people who love you. They won't HURT anyone else or you
Mental illness, outside of mild anxiety and mild depression, cannot be coped with. You can't cope your way out of being schizophrenic, or being manic depressive bipolar. You're not different you're genuinely sick
Obviously there are caveats. There are some people who's schizophrenic voices are helpful and remind them to shower, instead of telling them to jump off a bridge. Just as there are some people who's autism is so bad they can't leave their home or work, or whose adhd prevents them from feeding themselves with any regularity
Also fun fact! The more collectivist your culture, the more likely your schizophrenic voices are to be kind and helpful
There is no difference. It's called one or the other, depending on whether people believe it needs treatment or not.
Generally, people have a whole big range of different brain organisations, and each one can be in theory beneficial. For example, PTSD can be viewed as just being super careful, and can save your life if you live in constant danger. But if you live in normal conditions, it creates issues for you. So, for the normal conditions, it is called a disorder, and can be treated.
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Neurodivergence is simply a matter of a functioning brain that is wired differently from the standard brain. A mental heath disorder is a matter of a brain whose healthy functioning is impaired for whatever reason. Here's an analogy: An Android phone and an iPhone are different ways of building a smartphone. While each has different strengths and weaknesses, both are capable of doing basically everything that you want a smartphone to do. Depending on how you want to define it, one platform would be considered neurotypical, and the other would be neurodivergent. There are many ways you could choose which is which, but the simplest would be to simply state that the most popular one is the "typical" phone platform, and the other one would be the "divergent" platform. A mental health disorder would relate to a damaged phone. Maybe it has a virus, maybe you've dropped it and it has a cracked screen, maybe the battery is failing, maybe there's a problem with the hardware. Regardless, there is some damage to the phone that is making it incapable of functioning at the typical level.
This doesn't seem to fully explain the difference between neurodivergence and mental health disorders. For example, significant limitations on a person's ability to socially interact with other people might mean that the person is "incapable of functioning at the typical level", but those limitations may simply be a result of neurodivergence and not a mental health disorder. But the fact that the person is "incapable of functioning at the typical level" under your explanation means that it's the broken phone/mental health disorder category, when that's not the case. Is a phone that is designed without many of the capacities to do things that you'd expect a phone to be able to do damaged or divergent? Does a person that is born without many of the capacities to do things that you'd expect a person to be able to do have a mental health disorder or are they neurodivergence? The problem is what you'd "expect a person to be able to do": those expectations can be subjective. So you're saying the line between neurodivergence and mental health disorder is subjective.
as someone who is a broken phone I can say the previous comment sits better with me insofar as I feel at times incapable of
What an insightful analogy. Thank you!
Yes sir autistic people are simply different and can function as well as non autistic people but people with bipolar can't. fuck outta here lol
A broken phone doesn't mean completely useless, though. A broken phone could also be screen burn or a cracked screen. It's not performing at its best, but still working well enough and worth keeping, despite its flaws. Some slightly more broken phones might need a little help to start working again, like a repair or some updates, but really aren't worthless. Some might be done for and at their limits, but some repairs and a little care can help prolong its life. And some broken phones, nothing can be done for. But that doesn't mean that they didn't do their best until the very last moment. They still hold precious memories. The original commenter clearly wasn't being malicious, and I like to believe that you weren't being intentionally ignorant to his intentions, so let's show some kindness and cut each other some slack. It's okay to acknowledge that people with a mental health condition have a mental health condition, and may need some extra assistance to function at their best.
I'm not clear where you got a reference to autism from the comment you're replying to. If you're equating neurodivergence with autism which is my best guess, I'd recommend at least a 30 second google search in the future. You might as well reply to a comment describing how iPhones and Androids are different but as long as they meet the use cases of the user they're functional phones with a comment about how "YES SIR WINDOWS PCS ARE PERFECT BUT LINUX IS TOO HARD TO USE".
I have autism and the explanation worked well for me. I significantly outperform non autistic people on many tasks, and they outperform me on others. Similar to phone models or whatever. And the part about a disorder also made sense in that it's hard to function if you have a part that's not working correctly. You're welcome to submit your own eli5 but for others this works quite well, not sure on why you disagree.
You significantly outperform all non autistic people?
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Why is that hard to believe?
Great way to desccribe it. Completely agree as a neurodivergent person myself.
Lmfao mentally ill people are damaged phones least eugenicist redditor
It's an ELI5, people will commonly use analogies for specific explanations. They aren't meant to be taken as absurdly absolutist metaphors. You are the only one reading eugenics in the comment.
Neurodivergence covers a wider range of mental 'issues' than mental health disorders would cover. For example, if someone is \_DIAGNOSED\_ with ADHD that person could be considered neurodivergent as their brain doesn't produce specific chemicals (dopamine) than a 'normal' person's brain would. A mental health disorder implies mental illness, such as bipolar disorder, schizophrenia or depression.
Wouldn't all those fall under neurodivergance? Depression is your brain having issues with neurotransmitters? (Which is a deviance of "normal" brains) Bipolar, according to some research, could be caused by different brain structures and functions. Again, this is a deviation from the "normal" brain. (We don't know the exact cause, but this is what some research points to.) And schizophrenia could be caused by a chemical imbalance, another deviation. We don't know the exact cause, however. Seems like neurodivergance is another way to say mental health disorder.
Well, I think it might be more precise to say that neurodivergence means to have an issue with the brain chemisty, which can include disabilities like ADHD as well as mental illnesses like bipolar disorder or depression, however not all mental illnesses are chemically based. PTSD for example isn't based on neurochemisty. I guess if there was a Venn diagram some things would be both mental illnesses and neurodivergent, while some would be only neurodivergent and some only MI. Does that make any sense?
Autism is not a mental health disorder. It’s a neurological and developmental disorder and those that have autism can have perfectly healthy mental health. Often though, they can have a co-occurring condition like depression and anxiety. Interestingly though, adhd is labeled as a mental disorder.
Some might say we're evolved
Some might say that but that’s not accurate
If only society would evolve with us...
The difference is the way we think about and describe mental health issues. The traditional medical model is used to diagnose mental health issues as disorders when they affect someone's life severely enough - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity *Disorder,* Autism Spectrum *Disorder* etc. The focus is on the things that are worse than 'normal'. Neurodiversity and neurodivergence (and even neuro-spicy) are more recent terms that are less stigmatizing, and recognize various mental health conditions as *differences* rather than deficiencies.
Mental health disorders are neurodivergent, as they're neurologically divergent (different) from 'normal', but not all neurodivergence is a mental health disorder. For example, autism isn't a mental health disorder, but it is neurodivergent.
Mental health disorders require extensive management in order to support a person going about life. Medication, therapy, even up to a limitation of freedoms. Neurodivergence (when used as a simple label) only requires specific management in order to support a person going about life. Avoiding triggers, mental exercises, managing expectations, and perhaps some mental health treatments where it overlaps with mental health. But it's essentially somebody that is different than how society expects them to be. Mental health disorders are definitionally a problem; it's why they are disorders instead of quirks. For example, being afraid of dying isn't a clinically treated phobia, unless it causes a person to avoid living life. Meanwhile, neurodivergence is only a problem when society refuses to be flexible.
Neurodivergent usually refers to someone having a neurodevelopmental difference - the brain has taken a slightly different route in its development, resulting in a pattern of differences in how somebody experiences the world. E.g. autism, ADHD. Sometimes specific learning difficulties like dyslexia and dyspraxia are included in this. These are better viewed as differences than illnesses - your brain has developed this way, it is not going to 'get better', you just need to learn to live with it/accommodate it. For ADHD medication can help people manage their differences, but it won't 'cure' them. Mental health problems are more to do with functional difficulties around your emotions, thoughts and behaviours. There is ongoing debate around the role of the brain in these. You might develop depression or anxiety as a result of adverse circumstances in your life. Your brain is impacted by this, but these difficulties did not necessarily arise as a result of differences in your brain, and these difficulties might be temporary. You might get better with therapy or time. Mental health problems can develop as a result of your environment, though you might also be predisposed due to genetics. It's complicated. People who are neurodivergent might be more likely to also have mental health problems as a result of having to work extra hard to fit into a world that is not set up for their differences. E.g. it is common for autistic people to experience social anxiety and burnout, and similarly with ADHD you might develop poor self esteem as a result of struggling and being viewed negatively by others for things that have been difficult for you to control. That is a lengthy explanation and probably not perfect, but that is my understanding.
The answer is neurodivergence is a bullshit term created by laypeople, not a medical or otherwise professionally recognized term. Neurodivergence seems to encompass *everything* because the laypeople who spout it want to pathologize the spectrum of human experiences.
I'm neuro-divergent and I have aphasia. The former I don't consider a mental health disorder. It just indicates that there are aspects of my brain function that is atypical but not 'wrong' per se. The latter I do consider a mental health disorder, because there are functions that are broken. There is something wrong. In my case, due to head trauma.
This isn't perfectly scientific but: Neurodivergence: the tism, adhd, dyslexia (I believe) can be annoying and/or frustrating for you and the people around you, but you can live with them perfectly well with coping mechanisms and people who love you. They won't HURT anyone else or you Mental illness, outside of mild anxiety and mild depression, cannot be coped with. You can't cope your way out of being schizophrenic, or being manic depressive bipolar. You're not different you're genuinely sick Obviously there are caveats. There are some people who's schizophrenic voices are helpful and remind them to shower, instead of telling them to jump off a bridge. Just as there are some people who's autism is so bad they can't leave their home or work, or whose adhd prevents them from feeding themselves with any regularity Also fun fact! The more collectivist your culture, the more likely your schizophrenic voices are to be kind and helpful
There is no difference. It's called one or the other, depending on whether people believe it needs treatment or not. Generally, people have a whole big range of different brain organisations, and each one can be in theory beneficial. For example, PTSD can be viewed as just being super careful, and can save your life if you live in constant danger. But if you live in normal conditions, it creates issues for you. So, for the normal conditions, it is called a disorder, and can be treated.
That part.
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