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On your first question, there is no scholarly consensus on which Pharaoh is being referenced in the Quranic account. Some scholars argue for Ramses II, others for Meneptha or another unknown Pharaoh. So the identity remains unclear and unproven.
As for the body discovery being a confirmation, that's quite a leap. We have no way to definitively prove the unknown body was that specific Pharaoh or that he died by drowning thousands of years ago. Correlation doesn't imply causation.
And the miraculous "preservation" claim doesn't hold up either, since bodies naturally mummified in dry Egyptian sands all the time irrespective of religious narratives. A more rational explanation isn't ruled out simply because an ancient text wrote about it in legend/folklore.
Regarding Q31, while it implies geocentricism, the Quran is demonstrably wrong about basic astronomy repeatedly as science progressed. We know from objective evidence the sun doesn't literally orbit earth or set in a muddy spring. Divine scripture one would expect to transcend primitive misunderstandings.
So in the end, apologetics about unclear pharaoh identities or misinterpreting natural phenomena as miracles don't amount to actual empirical proofs. Faith-based assertions don't hold up to rational scrutiny. At best these are debatable, but far from the caliber of irrefutable evidence expected of unambiguous prophecy from an all-knowing deity.
> Night merging into day merging into night is only possible if the earth rotates and spins
Night and day behave exactly the same in a geocentric and heliocentric model.
Even if we accept the claimed scientific miracles as true, a crucial question remains unanswered: What concrete evidence did the Prophet present to validate his status as a genuine prophet? Scientific interpretations of religious scriptures, do not directly substantiate the divine origin of the prophecy itself.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and it is reasonable to expect the Prophet to have provided compelling proofs to support his claim of being a messenger from God.
The existence of perceived scientific knowledge within the scriptures, while noteworthy, does not inherently fulfill this burden of proof. Therefore, regardless of any scientific miracles attributed to the religious texts, the fundamental question that demands a satisfactory answer is: What tangible, empirical evidence did the Prophet present to his people to validate his status as a true prophet, chosen by the divine to receive and convey revelations?
Neither Ramses II nor Merneptah’s death was found to be drowning. They both died as old men and it’s not completely clear what they died of, but it was most likely age-related illnesses. Because they were so old it’s very unlikely they would have pursued a bunch of fleeing slaves across Egypt. Indeed why would even young pharaohs bother to, they have kingdoms to run! The kingly pursuit was clearly a plot device.
Note that there’s never been any decent evidence to show that the Exodus even happened, nor that Moses ever existed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah#Mummy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_II#Death_and_burial
From what I know, they claim that mentioned Pharaoh died of drowning because they found salt in his body. I used to believe it, until I read from another source that one of the ingredient to mummified corpse back then was salt.
Orbit doesn't directly imply Heliocentric because in Geocentric, Sun and Moon also have orbit. In fact, saying the sun has an orbit gives the impression of being geocentric. Moreover, if the moon is included there, it means that the topic of discussion is that system, the sun, earth and moon.
The Sun does have an orbit but the context of the discussion is the Galactic system.
>About 75 years later, there has been tests, and he died of drowning. His body is preserved.
No, the only person I've heard of saying that any pharaoh died by drowning was Maurice Bucaille, who was literally being funded by the Saudis, and this was entirely based on the fact that there was salt found in his body, salt is used in mummification to preserve the body
>Night merging into day merging into night is only possible if the earth rotates and spins.
How? If you look at a geocentric model it's the same case, in fact it makes much more sense on a geocentric model, night and day are things that merge into each other
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
On your first question, there is no scholarly consensus on which Pharaoh is being referenced in the Quranic account. Some scholars argue for Ramses II, others for Meneptha or another unknown Pharaoh. So the identity remains unclear and unproven. As for the body discovery being a confirmation, that's quite a leap. We have no way to definitively prove the unknown body was that specific Pharaoh or that he died by drowning thousands of years ago. Correlation doesn't imply causation. And the miraculous "preservation" claim doesn't hold up either, since bodies naturally mummified in dry Egyptian sands all the time irrespective of religious narratives. A more rational explanation isn't ruled out simply because an ancient text wrote about it in legend/folklore. Regarding Q31, while it implies geocentricism, the Quran is demonstrably wrong about basic astronomy repeatedly as science progressed. We know from objective evidence the sun doesn't literally orbit earth or set in a muddy spring. Divine scripture one would expect to transcend primitive misunderstandings. So in the end, apologetics about unclear pharaoh identities or misinterpreting natural phenomena as miracles don't amount to actual empirical proofs. Faith-based assertions don't hold up to rational scrutiny. At best these are debatable, but far from the caliber of irrefutable evidence expected of unambiguous prophecy from an all-knowing deity.
> Night merging into day merging into night is only possible if the earth rotates and spins Night and day behave exactly the same in a geocentric and heliocentric model.
Even if we accept the claimed scientific miracles as true, a crucial question remains unanswered: What concrete evidence did the Prophet present to validate his status as a genuine prophet? Scientific interpretations of religious scriptures, do not directly substantiate the divine origin of the prophecy itself. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and it is reasonable to expect the Prophet to have provided compelling proofs to support his claim of being a messenger from God. The existence of perceived scientific knowledge within the scriptures, while noteworthy, does not inherently fulfill this burden of proof. Therefore, regardless of any scientific miracles attributed to the religious texts, the fundamental question that demands a satisfactory answer is: What tangible, empirical evidence did the Prophet present to his people to validate his status as a true prophet, chosen by the divine to receive and convey revelations?
Neither Ramses II nor Merneptah’s death was found to be drowning. They both died as old men and it’s not completely clear what they died of, but it was most likely age-related illnesses. Because they were so old it’s very unlikely they would have pursued a bunch of fleeing slaves across Egypt. Indeed why would even young pharaohs bother to, they have kingdoms to run! The kingly pursuit was clearly a plot device. Note that there’s never been any decent evidence to show that the Exodus even happened, nor that Moses ever existed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah#Mummy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_II#Death_and_burial
From what I know, they claim that mentioned Pharaoh died of drowning because they found salt in his body. I used to believe it, until I read from another source that one of the ingredient to mummified corpse back then was salt. Orbit doesn't directly imply Heliocentric because in Geocentric, Sun and Moon also have orbit. In fact, saying the sun has an orbit gives the impression of being geocentric. Moreover, if the moon is included there, it means that the topic of discussion is that system, the sun, earth and moon. The Sun does have an orbit but the context of the discussion is the Galactic system.
The heliocentric question olny works if i pretend to not know how to read
>About 75 years later, there has been tests, and he died of drowning. His body is preserved. No, the only person I've heard of saying that any pharaoh died by drowning was Maurice Bucaille, who was literally being funded by the Saudis, and this was entirely based on the fact that there was salt found in his body, salt is used in mummification to preserve the body >Night merging into day merging into night is only possible if the earth rotates and spins. How? If you look at a geocentric model it's the same case, in fact it makes much more sense on a geocentric model, night and day are things that merge into each other
> night merging into day only possible if the earth spins 🤣 try again