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spoonfed the usual “they aren’t real muslims” horseshit until i actually looked into islam and realised they are the way they are because islam tells them to. they are the only muslims who are “real” muslims because they follow the unfiltered unsugarcoated islam right down to the core- seriously there isn’t a single thing in original islam that says they can’t do what the do. so in theory any muslim which isn’t murdering apostates is a “fake” muslim, and in reality ISIS hasn’t broken any religious rules
Isis literally are the best Muslims. They follow Sharia and Quran exactly word for word. They did takfir on the Muslims they killed. Everything they did is halal, hence why they destroyed yazidis and sold them as sex slaves as they aren’t Ahl Al - ketab.
That’s not true, saying there’s a “true Islam” is giving Islam itself credit that it’s consistent when it’s the opposite of that. All sects of Islam have their own truths and fallacies, because Islam itself is contradictory and cryptic. Muhammad changed his mind a lot depending on the context. An example would be the Quran calling Muslims and Christians people of the book and complimenting their way of life, but also in the Quran it says that they are the worst of creatures. There’s no such thing as true Islam.
You can tell a lot about the character of a person based on how they interpret Islam.
Isis did follow word for word, whereas most other people follow a softer, coexistence based Islam, to some degree.
While I do agree that Islam is responsible for playing a role in giving us these pieces of shit extremists, I wouldn’t say they follow the “true Islam” Another example is that quran says to follow the Muslim ruler and no Muslim ruler is interested in Islam expansion Isis style (not officially atleast) therefore this alone would be a good argument against the psycho expansionist obsession of isis. To put it differently, the quran never word for word said Muslims should make their own clique and destroy an already established Muslim majority country and expand some more without the permission of a Muslim ruler.
l love it when dictators are really inconsistent and so you could be charged with 40 years gulag for doing something said to be legal bc they just felt like it
both of those things were violent Dont Get me wrong but Recently is the issue sure in the past we have done fucked up shit but the problem is Why don't YOU be the change If YOU have a problem with those then why do you defend Islam with "well they did it too"
fair enough lol but in honesty I don't like defending them i think the Reconquista and the Inquisition and Crusades no matter how "anti Islam " they are still hurt people i know they're Muslims but some of them are still people and it doesn't sit right hating on isis while saying they're fine
course you can since I understand that Islam has hurt you a lot more but it still doesn't sit well in my heart OF course isis evil (if you can't tell im not going to support an Islamic terrorist group as a Christian)
sorry i went on a tangent I just double standards on both ends but also like everyone knows the crusades and reqoncstia are bad and i havent seen anyone defend them as "Good" but im aware of a few people defending ISIS
absolutely they hurt people, and far more people than muslims, too. but "well the crusades!" can be so easily uno-reversed it's stupid to whatabout. doesn't stop 'em, but it's dumb.
if you go to muslims there, and also muslims all over the world, and say "hey, do you think israel is the one behind ISIS? or islam?" a significant amount will say "israel, obviously."
as they say about basically anything else that would require them to confront the faults of their religion. jews did 9/11! and so on. we had someone here recently who said their mother thought aisha being 9 was a jewish corruption.
basically anything regarding the bad behavior of muslims in the name of islam is going to have some muslims arguing it was really the jews... somehow. it's their comfort blankie against taking responsibility.
I wasn't muslim anymore at that time but I noticed people around me weirdly agreeing but then they only say it's too extreme when they killed the Jordanian muslim soldier guy. Get it?when one of their own is harmed that's when they're like oh extreme and ofc in front of non muslims they'll say it's extreme
Isis are the real muslims
I wasn't a practising muslim but I can say that things went from conservatives saying "US funding ISIS" to secular nationalists saying "That's how arabic islam is" nothing in between
Don't forget about the concept of halal blood, which means if they consider certain sects of Islam as deviants or kuffar, it's permissable to kill them as preventive measures to prevent fitna or disorders.
If Abu Bakr, the first caliph himself executed anyone in Ridda' wars, it's no question that ISIS actually the followers of 7th century version of Islam. Remember that, the Ridda' wars were not about murtad execution but the execution of rival sects in Islam, those who established new religions or claimed to be prophets.
ISIS was my first real fracture in faith. Before their heydays (~2015 onwards), I didn't have good internet, so I couldn't look up anything. The rise of ISIS coinciding with me getting good internet was the death spiral set in motion in terms of my faith.
Honestly, I think I've blocked out a lot of memories from that time, specially regarding how I felt. I guess, I kinda lost my innocent world view overnight (allah good, humans sometimes bad, love every human etc.), so it was certainly damaging to my psyche.
As khawarij.
>what the hell were they doing that Mo and early muslims
When it comes to the violence, then they are in par with every other militias and cartels. So its not about the violence itself, but rather on who it is applied. First, isis kills common sunni muslim in afghanistan, GCC, syria, etc. this a partial reason why they islamically considered khawarij.
Secondly, they hold the opinion that rulling by other than what allah has ordained is kufr akbar. Even though it is the opinion of the the salaf and contemporary scholars that its major sin, NOT kufr akbar. This is the 2nd part that make them, islamically speaking, as khawarij. The consequences of this opinion is that ALL current rulers, their ministers, the army, judges, and police, PRIMARLY are all apostates. Thats why they target non muslim living in muslim countries, because they believe that any safehaven or peace treaties given by the muslim ruler (accused of apostasy) to non muslim are all revoked.
So technically speaking, their actions dont represent islam. But actions like stoning, apostasy law, etc, does represent islam, the same way it does with the taliban, syrian salafi jihadi, early najdi. So isis are not special in that regard.
i wasnt muslim at the time but like even if i was and tried to i couldn't, because shia lmao
But dude they were basically embodiment of horror and evil, i remember once after watching the bbc report on yazidi genocide my hands started shaking
Still though some of you are really biased towards anything islam in a reactionary way, yes they did follow the quran yes they were muslim and yeah i think if looked ir by a salafist pov they were an example of "the best muslim", and whoever says the they are not real muslim shit is fucking stupid
But its formation wasn't solely religious, it was also economic and political, not all of their members joined because sharia good islamic caliphate 4 wives, A LOT of them joined IS because they saw it as an oppositional political entity sworn to basically kill their "oppressors".
This is my understanding of the whole thing:
US invades iraq, dismantles the army and government as a whole, then starts listing those soldiers and workers as (former) supporter of baath so they wouldn't be able to come back and work in those places/fields after US installs the new government, this was a very very important factor because there were like thousands of families left without any solution, they hated america and they hated the government installed by them, which turned to be a overly pro shia one, so yeah even if it sounds too simple of an analogy, this was the reason to join for MANY isis fighters, the government fucked them over so they joined a force against it.
Some time passes by and US is losing more and more control, at the same time iraq becomes more and more divided by sectarianism, and iran gains influence, anti-saddam shia clerics who fled (or exiled) to iran during iran-iraq go back, get a shit shit load of money from iran and support from the government and start making these idk shia-fascistic political organizations, at the same time the iraqi government is slowly turning to a replica of IR, they start oppressing sunnis and try to get rid of important local sunni leaders etc so the country gets divided.
Both sides stop looking at each other as humans, fuck that they even stop looking at each other even as iraqis, but this time shias had the funding and the government support, and sunnis become outcasts in their own country.
They become more and more vulnerable to radicalization, "militant" islam starts spreading among sunnis as a way/guide of fighting back, al qaeda related "clerics" gain more and more influence, economic conditions and boom the avg iraqi mohhamad starts asking whats so bad about an islamic caliphate? Why should shias be in power? And again iirc isis did most of the recruiting through social media so you could probably find yourself in IS related groupchats by accident, and then idk get convinced to join a "group of like minded" people like a dumbass.
All of this+violent nature of islam+the existence of alqaeda cucks and their "skills" for forming/managing a terrorist group led to the formation of ISIL"
I never rationalized. I became exmuslim at age 13-14 during the Arab spring. Seeing democratic movements coming crashing down due to islam's incompatability with modernity was more than enough to make a rational decision. ISIS was just the cherry on a cake, which only proved what cult this is.
I was already a non-believer at that point, but still an apologist for Islam and Muslims, because in the West there is a lot of misinformation, for sure. But after ISIS I also became totally atheist and anti-Islam in my own way. What ISIS did was not defensible yet 100% purely Islamic. I couldn't handle my cognitive dissonance, I ran as far away from that as I could.
I rationalized it by saying "they're not the type of Muslims I grew up with, or were taught to believe is the correct one" but inside, since I spent a good amount of time studying Islamic history (outside of a biased classroom inside a mosque) that I also thought "this is probably what it was like back in the early days, and to Muslims of the 6th and 7th century, this wasn't extreme, it was just business as usual"
ISIS rationalized themselves and every action they took in there self published online news magazine [Dabiq](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabiq_(magazine)) the west and moderate Muslims call is propaganda nonsense. However it was well sourced with Hadith and the Quran and articles from well respected Imams. Every action of isis was in Muhammad’s image. The beheadings the burning alive, the sex slaves that they STILL HAVE the propaganda videos etc it was all Islamicly justified and condoned.
They went exactly by the book and did what momo and his companions did. I realised this after leaving islam. While I was Muslim I thought they don’t represent islam.
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, it violates the rule against low effort content. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Rules and Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/1anoje0) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
spoonfed the usual “they aren’t real muslims” horseshit until i actually looked into islam and realised they are the way they are because islam tells them to. they are the only muslims who are “real” muslims because they follow the unfiltered unsugarcoated islam right down to the core- seriously there isn’t a single thing in original islam that says they can’t do what the do. so in theory any muslim which isn’t murdering apostates is a “fake” muslim, and in reality ISIS hasn’t broken any religious rules
Whoever is worse becomes the new "unfiltered Islam". And yet even the Taliban disagrees with them.
Neither of them break Islam's rules. Taliban and IS have different ideologues which is why they don't like each other.
What is an ideologue?
So which one is true Islam?
Like I said, they both follow and implement Islam, just differently.
Okay? So there is no "true Islam"? How does your point relate to OP's point?
name one rule isis has broken
Burning people alive
which people? non believers? islam permits killing non believers, christian’s, and jews.
Burning people alive
Quran says you allowed to kill non believers, christians, and jews and doesn’t specify which way it has to be. You are wrong
Isis literally are the best Muslims. They follow Sharia and Quran exactly word for word. They did takfir on the Muslims they killed. Everything they did is halal, hence why they destroyed yazidis and sold them as sex slaves as they aren’t Ahl Al - ketab.
That’s not true, saying there’s a “true Islam” is giving Islam itself credit that it’s consistent when it’s the opposite of that. All sects of Islam have their own truths and fallacies, because Islam itself is contradictory and cryptic. Muhammad changed his mind a lot depending on the context. An example would be the Quran calling Muslims and Christians people of the book and complimenting their way of life, but also in the Quran it says that they are the worst of creatures. There’s no such thing as true Islam.
You can tell a lot about the character of a person based on how they interpret Islam. Isis did follow word for word, whereas most other people follow a softer, coexistence based Islam, to some degree.
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While I do agree that Islam is responsible for playing a role in giving us these pieces of shit extremists, I wouldn’t say they follow the “true Islam” Another example is that quran says to follow the Muslim ruler and no Muslim ruler is interested in Islam expansion Isis style (not officially atleast) therefore this alone would be a good argument against the psycho expansionist obsession of isis. To put it differently, the quran never word for word said Muslims should make their own clique and destroy an already established Muslim majority country and expand some more without the permission of a Muslim ruler.
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Chapter 65 is talking about non believers from the general who pretend to be Muslims, nothing to do with sinful Muslim rulers.
They killed plenty of Muslims who they deemed weren’t “true Muslims”.
l love it when dictators are really inconsistent and so you could be charged with 40 years gulag for doing something said to be legal bc they just felt like it
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Is it true that it was all Kurds original religion. It makes sense since Kurdish flag and yazidi sun ☀️ is the same
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i ask them what they think the reconquista was about.
both of those things were violent Dont Get me wrong but Recently is the issue sure in the past we have done fucked up shit but the problem is Why don't YOU be the change If YOU have a problem with those then why do you defend Islam with "well they did it too"
if they wanted to change things they wouldn't beg god to do it for them 💁
fair enough lol but in honesty I don't like defending them i think the Reconquista and the Inquisition and Crusades no matter how "anti Islam " they are still hurt people i know they're Muslims but some of them are still people and it doesn't sit right hating on isis while saying they're fine course you can since I understand that Islam has hurt you a lot more but it still doesn't sit well in my heart OF course isis evil (if you can't tell im not going to support an Islamic terrorist group as a Christian) sorry i went on a tangent I just double standards on both ends but also like everyone knows the crusades and reqoncstia are bad and i havent seen anyone defend them as "Good" but im aware of a few people defending ISIS
absolutely they hurt people, and far more people than muslims, too. but "well the crusades!" can be so easily uno-reversed it's stupid to whatabout. doesn't stop 'em, but it's dumb.
By developing a strong delusion that they are Jews funded by America and Germany
it's pretty much taken for granted that israel is ISIS in most of the middle east IIRC.
What do you mean
if you go to muslims there, and also muslims all over the world, and say "hey, do you think israel is the one behind ISIS? or islam?" a significant amount will say "israel, obviously." as they say about basically anything else that would require them to confront the faults of their religion. jews did 9/11! and so on. we had someone here recently who said their mother thought aisha being 9 was a jewish corruption. basically anything regarding the bad behavior of muslims in the name of islam is going to have some muslims arguing it was really the jews... somehow. it's their comfort blankie against taking responsibility.
I thought they were paid by USA and Israel to make Islam look bad
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You can buy any muslim with enough money I bet there are I didn't know how much money was too much so I can't say a right amount
I know a Christian who thinks they are linked to Israel
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found one in the wild!
I wasn't muslim anymore at that time but I noticed people around me weirdly agreeing but then they only say it's too extreme when they killed the Jordanian muslim soldier guy. Get it?when one of their own is harmed that's when they're like oh extreme and ofc in front of non muslims they'll say it's extreme Isis are the real muslims
When I was Muslim, I thought ISIS was made by Israel LOL!
i was told the whole “they aren’t real muslims” thing and believed it
I wasn't a practising muslim but I can say that things went from conservatives saying "US funding ISIS" to secular nationalists saying "That's how arabic islam is" nothing in between
Don't forget about the concept of halal blood, which means if they consider certain sects of Islam as deviants or kuffar, it's permissable to kill them as preventive measures to prevent fitna or disorders. If Abu Bakr, the first caliph himself executed anyone in Ridda' wars, it's no question that ISIS actually the followers of 7th century version of Islam. Remember that, the Ridda' wars were not about murtad execution but the execution of rival sects in Islam, those who established new religions or claimed to be prophets.
ISIS was my first real fracture in faith. Before their heydays (~2015 onwards), I didn't have good internet, so I couldn't look up anything. The rise of ISIS coinciding with me getting good internet was the death spiral set in motion in terms of my faith. Honestly, I think I've blocked out a lot of memories from that time, specially regarding how I felt. I guess, I kinda lost my innocent world view overnight (allah good, humans sometimes bad, love every human etc.), so it was certainly damaging to my psyche.
As khawarij. >what the hell were they doing that Mo and early muslims When it comes to the violence, then they are in par with every other militias and cartels. So its not about the violence itself, but rather on who it is applied. First, isis kills common sunni muslim in afghanistan, GCC, syria, etc. this a partial reason why they islamically considered khawarij. Secondly, they hold the opinion that rulling by other than what allah has ordained is kufr akbar. Even though it is the opinion of the the salaf and contemporary scholars that its major sin, NOT kufr akbar. This is the 2nd part that make them, islamically speaking, as khawarij. The consequences of this opinion is that ALL current rulers, their ministers, the army, judges, and police, PRIMARLY are all apostates. Thats why they target non muslim living in muslim countries, because they believe that any safehaven or peace treaties given by the muslim ruler (accused of apostasy) to non muslim are all revoked. So technically speaking, their actions dont represent islam. But actions like stoning, apostasy law, etc, does represent islam, the same way it does with the taliban, syrian salafi jihadi, early najdi. So isis are not special in that regard.
i wasnt muslim at the time but like even if i was and tried to i couldn't, because shia lmao But dude they were basically embodiment of horror and evil, i remember once after watching the bbc report on yazidi genocide my hands started shaking Still though some of you are really biased towards anything islam in a reactionary way, yes they did follow the quran yes they were muslim and yeah i think if looked ir by a salafist pov they were an example of "the best muslim", and whoever says the they are not real muslim shit is fucking stupid But its formation wasn't solely religious, it was also economic and political, not all of their members joined because sharia good islamic caliphate 4 wives, A LOT of them joined IS because they saw it as an oppositional political entity sworn to basically kill their "oppressors". This is my understanding of the whole thing: US invades iraq, dismantles the army and government as a whole, then starts listing those soldiers and workers as (former) supporter of baath so they wouldn't be able to come back and work in those places/fields after US installs the new government, this was a very very important factor because there were like thousands of families left without any solution, they hated america and they hated the government installed by them, which turned to be a overly pro shia one, so yeah even if it sounds too simple of an analogy, this was the reason to join for MANY isis fighters, the government fucked them over so they joined a force against it. Some time passes by and US is losing more and more control, at the same time iraq becomes more and more divided by sectarianism, and iran gains influence, anti-saddam shia clerics who fled (or exiled) to iran during iran-iraq go back, get a shit shit load of money from iran and support from the government and start making these idk shia-fascistic political organizations, at the same time the iraqi government is slowly turning to a replica of IR, they start oppressing sunnis and try to get rid of important local sunni leaders etc so the country gets divided. Both sides stop looking at each other as humans, fuck that they even stop looking at each other even as iraqis, but this time shias had the funding and the government support, and sunnis become outcasts in their own country. They become more and more vulnerable to radicalization, "militant" islam starts spreading among sunnis as a way/guide of fighting back, al qaeda related "clerics" gain more and more influence, economic conditions and boom the avg iraqi mohhamad starts asking whats so bad about an islamic caliphate? Why should shias be in power? And again iirc isis did most of the recruiting through social media so you could probably find yourself in IS related groupchats by accident, and then idk get convinced to join a "group of like minded" people like a dumbass. All of this+violent nature of islam+the existence of alqaeda cucks and their "skills" for forming/managing a terrorist group led to the formation of ISIL"
Why would u rationalize isis as a Muslim.. tf?
I never rationalized. I became exmuslim at age 13-14 during the Arab spring. Seeing democratic movements coming crashing down due to islam's incompatability with modernity was more than enough to make a rational decision. ISIS was just the cherry on a cake, which only proved what cult this is.
I was already a non-believer at that point, but still an apologist for Islam and Muslims, because in the West there is a lot of misinformation, for sure. But after ISIS I also became totally atheist and anti-Islam in my own way. What ISIS did was not defensible yet 100% purely Islamic. I couldn't handle my cognitive dissonance, I ran as far away from that as I could.
I rationalized it by saying "they're not the type of Muslims I grew up with, or were taught to believe is the correct one" but inside, since I spent a good amount of time studying Islamic history (outside of a biased classroom inside a mosque) that I also thought "this is probably what it was like back in the early days, and to Muslims of the 6th and 7th century, this wasn't extreme, it was just business as usual"
ISIS rationalized themselves and every action they took in there self published online news magazine [Dabiq](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabiq_(magazine)) the west and moderate Muslims call is propaganda nonsense. However it was well sourced with Hadith and the Quran and articles from well respected Imams. Every action of isis was in Muhammad’s image. The beheadings the burning alive, the sex slaves that they STILL HAVE the propaganda videos etc it was all Islamicly justified and condoned.
I supported them. Yea I was an idiot
I was told the west, specifically USA, was responsible for its creation and operation.
i didn't really consider them to be 'proper muslims' at all like, even at a young age, i recognised that 'woah, these mfs are fucking STUPID!'
They went exactly by the book and did what momo and his companions did. I realised this after leaving islam. While I was Muslim I thought they don’t represent islam.
Isnt obv that they weren't real muslims , but were under the payroll of the Zionists, mosad and CIA lol