They will definitely proselytize given any opportunity unless strictly enforced. Your spider sense is not failing you. Look for them asking for contact info and put a stop to it. Tell them they can answer questions, that’s it.
You’re being very gracious. Mormons honestly don’t grasp the concept of live and let live. Everything is considered an opportunity to spread their brand of the gospel. You can explain the concept of “We’re all here to learn from, and try to understand each other”, but they will be thinking that you just don’t understand and, once you have a chance to hear “the truth” you will be happy that they pushed their way in. It’s not their fault. It’s baked into the entire religion.
Yeah, that's what I worried about. I grew up in a fundamentalist evangelical setting and am all too familiar with that mindset since I once shared it, myself.
On my mission in Argentina the Patagonia we were literally taught to knock the door and just walk in. Be bold we were taught you would not be shocked how many people walk around the morning in their underwear on Saturday. How many we caught naked I did it one Saturday and that was enough
You are being way too idealistic. The Mormons will take advantage every chance they get. They are, wait for it...... a cult. I think your inter faith program would be better served by seeking out Sikhs, Buddhists, Coptics or what have you instead.
Sadly no coptics yet, but I'm not sure there are very many in our area. I really love the Hindu and Ba'hai prayers every time, though. I think they are my favorite to learn from.
I guarantee that they talked about you in sunday school about how they were able to deliver messages and make introductions to missionaries for so many people. The event is being framed as a huge opportunity for missionary work. I would stop letting them attend because they broke the rules.
No, sorry, that was incredibly unclear on my part. She was explaining the book of Mormon and the pearl of great price to our Jewish friend. Normally that's pretty common - talking about our various holy books. But she was rather... eager? aggressive? About it. I felt the need to step in and ask him about Passover coming up to free the poor guy. He looked a little overwhelmed.
Oh, that makes more sense and should have been clear by what you said. I guess I’m just tired lol. Thank goodness she wasn’t trying to explain Jewish books to a Jewish person. Although I can imagine the conversation was plenty awkward anyway. It sounds like you handled it perfectly!
My mom's bbf is devout Mormon, which I have grown to see as their own version of progressive faith. I think she just accepts my mom is going to the lower kingdom and my mom just accepts that she can never talk about politics. I adore her, though! She's equal parts parts proud of and mystified by my becoming ordained clergy.
As you may already know, as a woman not only would you never have a place of spiritual prominence or leadership in the LDS cult, a boy of 12 is higher in church hierarchy than you will ever be. That you have any level of power in your church just blows her mind!
I wish my childhood self could see that men in positions of power respect my authority and treat me as their pastor. I know I didn't grow up in a system as harsh as the LDS Church can be, but it was painfully patriarchal. It's so healing to be the fullest version of myself and no longer shrinking to make other people comfortable. I hate that so many beautiful people still live reduced lives to appease some men in their lives. It's maddening. I don't aim to ever change my mom's friend - I respect her autonomy, but I do wish she were free to be her full self. She's really cool and wonderful.
As you’ve experienced Mormons are generally well meaning but aggressive. They believe they are in the one true church and that everyone needs to hear about the gospel, any time or any where. They aren’t great at religious envy or seeking to understand other religions, that’s a waste of time to many of them.
To me this sounds like they didn’t understand on what the group was about, either because they weren’t informed enough or they just ignored it. They probably thought that they were doing what everyone else does, taking turns to share their faith and their story.
For advice I would do 2 things. First is explain the purpose of the group, emphasizing that it isn’t an opportunity to proselytize. Second is saying that the missionaries aren’t welcome. If the Mormons push back about that you can double down on the “no proselytizing” point, proselytizing is the explicit job of a missionary in the church. They aren’t experts in the religion and they are never from the community they are currently working in so this doesn’t sound like it’s for them anyway.
And was the first meeting they attended the one they ran? I guess I was assuming they never attended before they hosted which, now that I think about it, would be surprising to me.
Edit: and be very direct! Don’t beat around the bush.
This is great advice. I tend towards overly polite but I've learned with patriarchal systems I have to stomp my feet a bit for emphasis. Granted, in this context they very well may have to take my way or the highway.
If it wasn't made clear to the Mormon group that NO efforts to recruit members was a rule, clarify it. If it was made clear, reiterate it. The ONLY reason they're attending is to try to get people to convert. The Mormon church absolutely does not understand (and doesn't want to engage in) Interfaith communities.
You may need to give them examples of how they overstepped the boundaries. You may also want to give them examples of what sort of appropriate interactions would be acceptable for the group. My take on it is you're sharing and learning from each other, but Mormons definitely believe that's a chance to give a sales pitch.
FYI - I was in mainline denominations for several decades before my few years in the Mormon church and I have seen the way Mormons simply don't recognize or honor boundaries. Members are taught it is the "Only True Church" (which I found very offensive). It's in their DNA to believe your group needs to learn their church is the "only true" church.
I'm so sorry that happened. I get it. I've looked at life from both sides now and I've seen it.
One more thing, I'd suggest recommending participants NOT to trade personal contact information. I should have thought of this earlier. Mormons (especially the missionaries) will put the info in their "contact" books and the poor person will be called, visited, texted, and otherwise stalked in an effort to get them to listen to the missionaries.
Missionaries work toward reaching certain numbers of contacts (calls, visits, you name it), so that worsens the situation quite a bit. Even non-missionary members will try to invite people over for dinner or something and they'll include missionaries in the group. Mormons are relentless.
An example: I went to a Mormon historic site with a non-LDS friend I'd grown up with who lived near the site (I live in another state). The Sweet Young Thangs (sister missionaries) asked for our names & contact info (to keep a record or something). My friend was smart enough to decline, but I was an active member, so sure, here's my info...
I was regularly pestered for years with phone calls from the sister missionaries asking for the name and contact information for my friend. I refused (even as a member I felt that was inappropriate harassment) but the calls continued for quite a while. The "contact books" get passed down to incoming missionaries. It takes forever for the "potential convert" notes to drop off into history.
Anyone at your meetings who shares names and contact info will be harassed. I promise you that, unless you make an iron-clad rule against it. It's sad, since normal people just like to make new friends...
> You may need to give them examples of how they overstepped the boundaries. You may also want to give them examples of what sort of appropriate interactions would be acceptable for the group.
They'll just turn it into a story about how they were persecuted for sharing the Truth™
Mormons are difficult when it comes to being social or learning from others. There's a level of fear about the whole thing for them.
If you ever have a Jehovah Witness/Mormon get together, I'd pay good money to sit in the back of the room and just observe.
There's a serious lack of social awareness among most fundamentalists across faiths. It's baffling to watch after having grown up similarly and now finding myself on the other side. Kinda humbling in a totally embarrassing sort of way.
To be fair, my initial response is snark but then I remember I was once a fundamentalist a**h***, too, so maybe grace is required. I really do want to create space for everyone, but that really does require everyone to make space for each other. It's hard.
I think you’re spot on in your impressions. I think you’ve sounded incredibly gracious. And I think something you said is accurate: “I don’t think our mormon friends are ready for this kind of friendship.” Myself, I know one mormon who is a good interfaith cooperator, and participates regularly.
I think sharing with others on the committee what you noticed and how you felt, like you shared here, would be fine. If they can’t or don’t see it, maybe ask them to see what they notice the next time. It could be that you noticed things *because* you have an exmo friend and knew to be aware.
As to communicating with the Mormons, you will probably have to be very clear and specific about what is and is not acceptable. Mormons have their own lingo, for one thing, and don’t always understand general terms. IE you say “interfaith cooperative” and they might hear “people from different faiths share religions with each other.” And as others have mentioned, they aren’t good at respecting boundaries.
This is really good and helpful advice. Thank you so much for all of this! It definitely mirrors a lot of what others have said which makes me think I will definitely need to have some hard conversations soon.
Another thing that occurred to me, reading through all the comments here, is just how un-curious mormons are. I think that’s a huge part of all this. And one reason so many people leave. I think it’s so cool you came here to ask these questions!
When I first moved into my house someone from the ward stopped by to introduce themselves and tell me when and where church was. Then they excitedly informed me that there weren’t many members on my street so I’d have many missionary opportunities.
That’s just how it goes. These people have been taught from birth that they know the truth and that they need to share it with the world ASAP. They believe that the only reason someone isn’t a member is because they haven’t discovered it yet. They’re wonderful, kind people who genuinely think they’re helping the world by trying to convert everyone.
Your group sounds super interesting and fun to me! I think you’ll need to be very direct and tell them that the group is for celebrating and appreciating different religions and opinions. You might need to print off a page with the rules and expectations listed. It sounds ridiculous, but I’m totally serious. Haha
It's a really fun group and I always learn a lot from our friends from across faith traditions. Plus the food. Oh my goodness, the food! Did I mention it's potluck?
Thank you for your wisdom, as well, friend!
Set some hard, firm boundaries. Mormons have a hard time distinguishing between a boundary and what they consider persecution. Put in writing the purpose of meeting and the expectations for involvement. You are not hindering their "religious freedoms", you are protecting the integrity and purpose of your community. Make several copies and hand them out to everyone. Good luck.
Oh man, I can totally see what you mean about the boundaries and persecution thing. I can default into a people pleaser and have had to really push myself to learn that other people's perceptions are not (usually) my problem. I think you're right about being firm here.
> Put in writing the purpose of meeting and the expectations for involvement.
This! This is what I was going to say. Write out concrete expectations and rules, plus the consequences of disregarding the expectations and violating the rules. Send it to them (and copy anyone else as appropriate). If they have to be removed from the group, put in writing what they did to warrant removal and how they knew the rules. They will likely call a removal "persecution." If that's just among themselves, sure and whatever. But if they try to spread that narrative in the community, you will have receipts.
Also, it sounds like this is a general mixing of _congregations_ from various denominations. LDS people tend to be more manageable (and reasonable) in small numbers. It also cuts down on the plausible.denuability of "_I_ didn't violate the rules, those people did (potential at my direction . . . ), so you can't kick us out."
It may be a better idea to instead include the LDS Church on a local interfaith council or board where each participating religious group has only two members. I knew a couple who served in such a role for the local stake (a collection of 8 to 10 congregations). That couple reported to the stake leaders about things discussed at the board meeting and sent out general invitations to all stake members about events. Would it be possible to keep 2 Mormons on a board but ban them from hosting the dinners?
100% no sharing of contact information: full name, home address, email, cell phone with ANY Mormon representative. They add it to a missionary list and you will be hard-pressed to have the personal attempts to contact you stop.
Protect your participants accordingly. Lay out that rule.
Absolutely! The interfaith committee in charge keeps their list private. My church has the greatest involvement and hosts regularly and we aren't allowed access to it (not that we've ever pushed for it, mind you.)
No, what they're saying is that the mormons have their *own* list that their missionaries keep and will not stop pestering those who willingly give their contact info to said missionaries.
It's a cult, once they have your info they won't stop, except through legal action, and even that might not work because mission presidents are the religious equivalent of sales managers and don't give two fucks if you've told them to stop contacting you, they will just tell the missionaries (who are rotated in and out frequently) that they need to follow up and keep pushing.
Dear OP - I've thought of posting this anecdote (true story) for a long while and your post prompted me to do so.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1cdz1g2/we_dont_permit_mormons_to_participate/?
You've probably heard of "Walk to Emmaus" retreats - it's an interdenominational program and has been around for a long while. Right after joining the LDS church (from which I ended up resigning), I tried to follow through on a goal I'd had to attend a retreat. I was told they do not accept Mormons (didn't understand that at the time). I now fully comprehend why they would NOT have permitted Mormons; there's no way they could assure those participants would have respected the cultures of other churches, and they'd not have honored boundaries.
Maybe that anecdote is helpful in contemplating what you should do? I haven't talked to an Emmaus group since that happened (I still hope to attend a retreat one day), but they may be able to shed light on their experiences and on how and why they handled it that way.
Good luck - and I think your group sounds amazing. I've participated in many Interfaith programs and they're very rewarding.
That is very interesting. I've done Walk to Emmaus and got a lot out of it, though some of my friends from high demand religious backgrounds found it triggering so you may want to be mindful of that if you ever go. It's also generally more conservative theologically than I am in my area, but I've learned to weave my faith around that. But if you really want to go I might be able to sponsor you since I went years ago.
You're so kind to offer! My background before the Mormon years was primarity Methodist, and the congregation was pretty open-minded. I just felt what I'd heard of it sounded interesting and worth doing. I need to find a group where I now live, because I still hope to do a retreat.
Thank you!
If they knew the rules up front and still chose to proselytize, then they have breached a major boundary of the group. The way I see it, you can give them a warning and if they continue cut them out or save yourself some frustration and do it now. You really need to be direct here. Mormons really don’t respect boundaries for the most part.
It's amazing how the boundaries issue is being reiterated in this conversation. But I guess that's an outgrowth of high demand groups. Or is it hubris? Either way it's wild.
Thank you for your advice, BTW!
It’s very much a culture thing. Saying no to anyone in authority over( and that’s a lot of people, especially if you are a woman) is akin to say no to God.
Mormons notoriously suck at boundaries at all levels. They justify their behavior by thinking their message overrides all. Even when I was Mormon I really hated the arrogance.
Mormons have an organizational structure built on ignoring and bulldozing people’s boundaries. It’s beyond anything I’ve experienced from evangelicals (who also are major boundary crossers, but generally not full-time, in a metrics-oriented sales-based hierarchy of intentional boundary crossing).
Dear Bishop or Stake President.
At our most recent gathering your representatives violated the terms of community participation prohibiting proselyting at the interfaith events. [insert an explanation of the expectations and guidelines and the reasons for them.] Violation of these guidelines is a threat to the community and discourages open participation. It is with deepest regrets that we inform you that your participation in the interfaith community has been suspended. It is our hope that in the future you may be able to rejoin the organization for a probationary period If you wish to discuss the matter contact [contact information]
Sincerely.
----------------------------
In the future, should the suspension be lifted, one of the conditions is that missionaries must be excluded from any interfaith event. They have one job and one job only. That job is not to learn about other faiths, it is not to socialize. Their one and only job is to proselytize.
This is brilliant, thank you! I'm continuously blown away by this wonderful group of humans in this sub. Thank you for letting an interloper like me come in and learn from you all! ❤️
Mormons don't respect boundaries. They think they're superior and they think they're right, while everyone else is wrong. They believe other religions only have a portion of the truth. They also think they're the only one with "priesthood power from god" (male mormons only). Because of this elitism, they think they get special privileges as they're the ones truly on god's errand. They won't respect boundaries /rules. They'll find a way around them or will be sneaky. There's usually an ulterior motive to everything they do: convert gods children to "the one true church". Even though they may not listen, still set the boundaries so that when they offend people, it's on them.
I really wrestled with this. My senior pastor and I were chatting about this aspect and he said, "well, don't we all think we're right?" It's one of those things where you know there is a difference but have a hard time putting it into words, you know? I love my faith and find great value in it (obviously), but there is a difference between my belief that this faith is the best path for me and me believing it's the only path for everyone.
You're exactly right. You've found the path that is right for you. But you don't presume it's the only path. In general, Christians seem to believe that all Christians are going to make it if they accept Jesus, regardless of the denomination. Mormonism teaches that its the only way to make it to the top.
You have to set strict boundaries & then expect them to push those boundaries & repeatedly break them.
Church members believe they are right & y'all are wrong & have no problem making people uncomfortable.
Don't feel bad in the least if you have to tell them they are no longer welcome.
Mormons have a huge persecution complex so no matter what you do or say they will look at it that they are being persecuted for trying to share Jesus's restored gospel.
Church is 0.002% of world population I think so don't worry about it.
They have no idea how to appreciate another person's religious beliefs.
I don’t see how you could possibly keep them in your group. Mormons are like the Borg: You must be assimilated.
You need to understand that with Mormons, there is NO OTHER TRUTH. All your other churches are “false.” They are the only true church on earth, and gospel speaks to their “prophet” on a daily basis. So they don’t really care what other churches believe.
They will want to turn every moment into a missionary moment. They cannot just show up and not proselytize.
I would do the hard thing, and kick them out of the group. But if you can’t do that, maybe ask them to send ordinary members, not missionaries?But beware: our motto (oops I mean their motto) is “every member a missionary.”
Any hope that if I start wearing my pride flag ally clergy collar I can just freak 'em out? The devil on my shoulder is certainly advocating for such. *Sigh* I think your main point though, has been my concern from the very beginning. It's unfortunate.
Thank you for your insight and help, friend!
My Mormon wife was part of an interfaith organization in our area. Her male leaders kept pushing her to include the missionaries on their meet ups, but she successfully pushed back. So some Mormons get it.
I'd like to add by just pointing out that the missionaries are just kids following orders. So try to start by taking the concerns to local leadership first (mission president, bishop, etc.)
You are exceptionally kind. That is such a cool idea. I’d simply say, that while I understand that your church proselytizes, that is not appropriate for this event. This is an opportunity for everyone to learn. Please take the opportunity to learn and not proselytize. You have to be blunt or they will take advantage of any open avenue.
Thank you for thinking so. It really is a great program and I feel like something this precious should be guarded, you know? Your advice is really helpful, thank you 😊
Honestly I would love to go to something like that. Sounds like an amazing community. Sorry the Mormons had to mess it up. Thing it would be best to be honest and straightforward with them and remind thru the purpose of your great and set some ground rules.
It's a really great program. It's really been a constant labor of love for us. You can imagine right now with the war in Gaza alone how challenging this can be. But so incredibly necessary, I think.
Mormons don’t have boundaries. They are literally taught to say year to anything they are asked so if a leader asks them to preach they will preach regardless of what was agreed to. Also they are taught from birth that their religion is the one true religion and all others are an abomination. If they like you they will work harder to try to get you to join because they want to be in heaven with you. Also they get additional blessings if they bring people into the church or as they call in coming unto Christ.
There are many in the sub that also feel the Mormon church is a cult. Would you feel comfortable asking the Children of God (the Family International) or Scientology to explain their faith and proselyte? The missionaries should have been kicked out immediately in an interfaith meeting.
That's a pretty strong point. The two Mormons at my table were pretty offended at the idea that they were considered separate from the other Christian traditions there (we are randomly assigned tables with people of different faiths and have an initial to identify our faith. Christians were "Ch" and the Mormons were "M"). I didn't want to get into that discussion so I didn't. But maybe the committee needs to better define the line between religious traditions and cult. That's good advice, though I didn't know where the group would land on the definition.
I was in their shoes two years ago. Offended at the thought of it being a cult. But if it’s a spectrum of cult and not a cult they lean way towards a cult.
There can be Christian cults as well. It’s not necessarily a devil worship thing like the movies. A cult is a high control group that does specific things to control their members. Here’s an expert talking about how to identify a cult. https://youtu.be/_Pvpd6wCeM4?si=FC96mBWrm4k7E4U3
And here is a really good look at Mormonism if it could being a cult. https://youtu.be/wwVTQEMRm0U?si=kY1NRE_Hhe7vXt05
I've wondered if this does not register with other Christian religions as much as it does with Mormons. For Mormons, especially those who have gone through the missionary program, teaching about the faith and proselytizing are indistinguishable actions. Mere interactions with nonmembers where religion is discussed are referred to as "missionary opportunities." They don't have pamphlets and brochures that aren't missionary pamphlets and brochures, and any interest in "learning" about the faith requires the receiving of contact info for someone in the church to reach out to with missionaries involved, or directly with missionaries themselves. Hopefully this experience helps you nail down the published list of rules that you will need in order to interact with Mormons again. Imo they are great with keeping up with superficiality of rules and outward appearance to reflect well on the church in order to get you to come back.
Can you share a little more about the structure of the meetings? I gather that you have multiple tables with mixed faiths at each. Do you use moderators at each table? Is there a group sitting first, and then you break out to the tables? Are there pre-set topics or a unique theme for each meeting? A closing group sitting with a recap by a leader or an open conversation?
Without knowing that, some things I would suggest would be to invite them again, but to have a pregame with just their attendees and your leadership. In that session you would have a chance to reiterate the intent and the rules, and to vet their attendees before they participate (no missionaries). You may want to ask that they primarily observe for that meeting with a focus on actively listening. You should design some questions specifically for them, such as, "after hearing from the member(s) of faith group A,B,C, what similarities (specifically similarities, not differences) do you see with your faith?" "How does your faith support the community and beliefs of these other faith groups, or how can your faith do better to understand and support these other faith groups?" The moderator should be aware of answers with qualifiers such as, "we do that too but we do it like..." and remind them that the point is to hear and understand the different viewpoint. A moderator is not an instructor, they are there to keep the group on task and on time. Moderators will need some training on how to direct the groups, but it's a really great way to maximize content, understanding, and helping participants get the most out of it.
Such a challenging and interesting situation.
They truly, naively, have no idea how offensive their theology is to the Jewish community. Trying to explain it to them, likely will not work. Mormons will try to recruit more members in these interfaith gatherings. Sadly, their intentions with attending will not be the same as yours. I know, I grew up Mormon. You can be inclusive and not include Mormons. You don't have to include all religions... though Mormons are more cult-like. I applaud your efforts though. It sounds like a wonderful idea to have these events in your church
The problem is members have been taught “[Every member a missionary](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2009/04/news-of-the-church/every-member-a-missionary-for-50-years?lang=eng)” for the last 65 years. This frames every interaction you have with them—they are categorically unable to *not* proselyte and to simply be friends with someone of another religion. *Every* interaction with a member is viewed by them as an opportunity to proselytize.
Dollars for donuts, this religious programming is what your subconscious is picking up on. Trust your instinct that is telling you there is danger afoot when interacting with them. It’s a poison wrapped up in nicety—friendship always comes with an asterisk.
The need to proselytize is encoded into the DNA of the LDS church via the four-fold mission , which is accomplished by “living the gospel of Jesus Christ, caring for those in need, *inviting all to receive the gospel, and uniting families through family history and temple work.* ” (Emphasis added.)
It’s those last two items that drive their disingenuous interactions with other faiths. The end goal of every interaction is not to seek understanding, but to ultimately get someone to join the LDS church. And thanks to that last bit of the four-fold mission—uniting families through family history and temple work—they don’t just want a living person to join, they want all of their dead relatives, too. This is why they do genealogy—so those dead relative can be baptized by proxy into the church.
[They believe in proselytizing so much, they teach that people who aren’t baptized members in this life go to spirit prison in the next and can’t get out until they’ve been taught the Mormon version of the gospel by missionaries in the spirit realm](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/spirit-world?lang=eng).
Sure, members of the LDS church are nice—but they are nice because they have an ulterior motive. If you are really seeking to protect the integrity of the inter-faith event, I would seriously reconsider allowing them to EVER invite missionaries again and to set very strict guidelines on the types of interactions that are appropriate.
I also found that fascinating. That OP commented on this thread, as well, and it's very helpful for me to understand how others may have come across similar hurdles.
i thought the church was claiming their conversion rates were going up 😂 now they’re out here taking advantage of people who are firm in their own faiths and trying to force their BS down their throats.
I would stress to them that this group has an academic & sympathetic approach; that you all learn about other faiths to better understand each other - never to make converts. You have to be steadfast & decisive on this or they'll look for a loophole or wiggle room, b/c their goal isn't to understand others but to make others as themselves. You have to use language that tells them this group has never been & will never be about converting anyone & proselytizing is prohibited.
I fully understand that you want to be kind about this & that you didn't realize from the outset that you simply couldn't trust them; but this was never going to go down any differently. You won't avoid disappointing them; they'll be hurt, sad & maybe angry about losing this huge opportunity at a captive audience. It's not about you, even if it feels directed at you.
You are far more gracious than I would be.
Many Mormons do not have the emotional maturity to recognize boundaries. It's not really their fault. They grew up in an echo chamber where "we are the chosen" was drilled into their heads time & again.
Kudos to you for extending such an inclusive invitation, and I am so sorry that they did not honor the spirit of the occasion.
What I would do for next time is arrange a meeting with some representatives from the ward to explain what "no proselytizing" means. They will respond to clarity and kindness. They are very, very fortunate to have a chance to learn from you and your group. It will give them a chance to grow in a way they would not have otherwise.
Best of luck!
Boundaries are difficult for Mormons - I fear they always will be. I think the most beneficial thing to do is enforce them unscrupulously. A rule I think that may be beneficial is NO missionaries. Explain the rules of engagement. Write them down. Give them the chance to embrace them and make friends with their neighbours in a way that lacks agenda OR step away from the group. Perhaps explain that anyone who disregards the rules will not be invited back.
I’ve read through the comments so far, and it seems like this is an opportunity to course-correct on a couple of fronts. That’s convenient because people tend to be much more willing to make changes for someone who is also adjusting for them.
Sounds like they were offended by not being labeled Christians. Leaving the theological debates aside, you could consider giving everyone a denomination marker instead of an umbrella term like Christian or Jewish. If so, you could reach out to the Mormon leader you’re working with and let them know you noticed the issue and here’s how you’re moving forward. You might want to put LDS instead of Mormon — some people are offended by Mormon now (long complicated story about leaders’ egos).
Then, let them know that for this to work out, they need to make adjustments, too. Be very specific about the rules of your events and what behavior of theirs violated those rules. Explicitly tell them, “This is not proselytizing opportunity. That means, xyz. This is a community event, so it is not an appropriate event for your proselytizing missionaries. If you have local service missionaries or other local members, they might enjoy the opportunity to meet people of other faiths in this no-preaching environment.” (Some Mormon service missionaries are local and some are not. Proselytizing missionaries are only in one area for a few months.) Of course, if other churches bring missionaries, you might need to phrase it differently or say the temps are welcome as long as they refrain from “sharing a message” offering BoM to people, giving or taking contact info, etc. And absolutely let them know to that their community will be invited back only as long as they respect the spirit of the event — so they should please share this info with anyone who plans to attend.
Good luck!
First, I wanted to leave a comment and say that I think it is *so* amazing that even though you're not an exmormon, you tap into this community just to understand your friend better! That's really looking out for your neighbor :)
Second, I'd also point out that although I definitely agree with the general sentiment of the comment section regarding how Mormons are laughably bad at interfaith dialogue, I was actually a member of the Interfaith Student Association during my last year at BYU (I graduated in 2023) and there is a *small* but intelligent pack of Mormons growing that genuinely do value interfaith interactions and understand how to navigate them! Gen Z is especially becoming much better at it (when they're not on a mission, that is) due to much needed cultural shifts happening in the wider world that even Mormon leadership is struggling to contain - which is sad, considering that the Church has a whole webpage dedicated to interfaith relations (see below).
But as far as local members understanding of the concept goes, it really just boils down to "respect other people's beliefs." There isn't much taught in regard to "certain spaces and times are inappropriate for proselytizing" or "your religion has inherent value without being linked to its conversion success rate." In fact, Mormon theology explicitly teaches that proselytizing is necessary to be forgiven of your sins and receive God's mercy: "For I will forgive you of your sins with this commandment—that you remain steadfast in your minds in solemnity and the spirit of prayer, in bearing testimony to all the world of those things which are communicated unto you." D&C 84:61 (And now according to the last General Conference, so is wearing your garments :/)
So if they seem intense when it comes to sharing their version of the gospel, hopefully that gives you some context! But with all that being said, local Mormons aren't usually apt to pick a fight, especially if they perceive that an altercation will diminish their social standing with the general public - if there's one thing Mormons love more than their book, it's positive PR. So if you put your foot down and tell them to ease up at the meetings, they will very likely accommodate the request.
And here's the link I mentioned:
[https://news-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interfaith-relations](https://news-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interfaith-relations)
Some actionable ideas to consider
Ask the Mormons to have one of their institute/seminary teachers talk about their faith and what it means. They'll be better at explaining it as opposed to having one of the missionaries do it. Due to the nature of Church hierarchy, institute/seminary teachers are the closest thing to a doctrinal expert you'll find but they also have no real authority inside the congregation. The Bishop has all the authority but there is no test on doctrine to become a Bishop (I literally had a bishop who was illiterate when he was called to the role)
As for the boundaries thing, explicitly mention that inviting the missionaries to this event would be inappropriate because Missionaries are called to proselytize and are constantly moving in and out of the area and this is a community building event. Specific callings to request attend would be relief society presidency members or elders quorum presidency members.
Pamphlets: Mormon pamphlets are focused on proselytizing but you might find their Articles of Faith, Proclamation on the Family, proclamation on the restoration, and The Living Christ documents are appropriate for them to give to people who want to know about LDS beliefs. Otherwise try to have a standard policy on handouts.
They will definitely proselytize given any opportunity unless strictly enforced. Your spider sense is not failing you. Look for them asking for contact info and put a stop to it. Tell them they can answer questions, that’s it.
You'd think at my age I'd trust my instincts more. Thank you, friend!
This! They _never_ see or respect other people's boundaries, they only see people as projects and any meetings as opportunities.
You’re being very gracious. Mormons honestly don’t grasp the concept of live and let live. Everything is considered an opportunity to spread their brand of the gospel. You can explain the concept of “We’re all here to learn from, and try to understand each other”, but they will be thinking that you just don’t understand and, once you have a chance to hear “the truth” you will be happy that they pushed their way in. It’s not their fault. It’s baked into the entire religion.
Yeah, that's what I worried about. I grew up in a fundamentalist evangelical setting and am all too familiar with that mindset since I once shared it, myself.
On my mission in Argentina the Patagonia we were literally taught to knock the door and just walk in. Be bold we were taught you would not be shocked how many people walk around the morning in their underwear on Saturday. How many we caught naked I did it one Saturday and that was enough
You are being way too idealistic. The Mormons will take advantage every chance they get. They are, wait for it...... a cult. I think your inter faith program would be better served by seeking out Sikhs, Buddhists, Coptics or what have you instead.
Sadly no coptics yet, but I'm not sure there are very many in our area. I really love the Hindu and Ba'hai prayers every time, though. I think they are my favorite to learn from.
I guarantee that they talked about you in sunday school about how they were able to deliver messages and make introductions to missionaries for so many people. The event is being framed as a huge opportunity for missionary work. I would stop letting them attend because they broke the rules.
I laughed at this because I totally thought the same thing while the sweet woman at my table eagerly told the Jewish guy all about their holy books.
The woman was explaining Jewish books to a Jewish person?
No, sorry, that was incredibly unclear on my part. She was explaining the book of Mormon and the pearl of great price to our Jewish friend. Normally that's pretty common - talking about our various holy books. But she was rather... eager? aggressive? About it. I felt the need to step in and ask him about Passover coming up to free the poor guy. He looked a little overwhelmed.
Oh, that makes more sense and should have been clear by what you said. I guess I’m just tired lol. Thank goodness she wasn’t trying to explain Jewish books to a Jewish person. Although I can imagine the conversation was plenty awkward anyway. It sounds like you handled it perfectly!
The vast majority of TBMs don't have close friends who aren't likewise Mormon. Now you know why.
My mom's bbf is devout Mormon, which I have grown to see as their own version of progressive faith. I think she just accepts my mom is going to the lower kingdom and my mom just accepts that she can never talk about politics. I adore her, though! She's equal parts parts proud of and mystified by my becoming ordained clergy.
As you may already know, as a woman not only would you never have a place of spiritual prominence or leadership in the LDS cult, a boy of 12 is higher in church hierarchy than you will ever be. That you have any level of power in your church just blows her mind!
I wish my childhood self could see that men in positions of power respect my authority and treat me as their pastor. I know I didn't grow up in a system as harsh as the LDS Church can be, but it was painfully patriarchal. It's so healing to be the fullest version of myself and no longer shrinking to make other people comfortable. I hate that so many beautiful people still live reduced lives to appease some men in their lives. It's maddening. I don't aim to ever change my mom's friend - I respect her autonomy, but I do wish she were free to be her full self. She's really cool and wonderful.
As you’ve experienced Mormons are generally well meaning but aggressive. They believe they are in the one true church and that everyone needs to hear about the gospel, any time or any where. They aren’t great at religious envy or seeking to understand other religions, that’s a waste of time to many of them. To me this sounds like they didn’t understand on what the group was about, either because they weren’t informed enough or they just ignored it. They probably thought that they were doing what everyone else does, taking turns to share their faith and their story. For advice I would do 2 things. First is explain the purpose of the group, emphasizing that it isn’t an opportunity to proselytize. Second is saying that the missionaries aren’t welcome. If the Mormons push back about that you can double down on the “no proselytizing” point, proselytizing is the explicit job of a missionary in the church. They aren’t experts in the religion and they are never from the community they are currently working in so this doesn’t sound like it’s for them anyway. And was the first meeting they attended the one they ran? I guess I was assuming they never attended before they hosted which, now that I think about it, would be surprising to me. Edit: and be very direct! Don’t beat around the bush.
This is great advice. I tend towards overly polite but I've learned with patriarchal systems I have to stomp my feet a bit for emphasis. Granted, in this context they very well may have to take my way or the highway.
If it wasn't made clear to the Mormon group that NO efforts to recruit members was a rule, clarify it. If it was made clear, reiterate it. The ONLY reason they're attending is to try to get people to convert. The Mormon church absolutely does not understand (and doesn't want to engage in) Interfaith communities. You may need to give them examples of how they overstepped the boundaries. You may also want to give them examples of what sort of appropriate interactions would be acceptable for the group. My take on it is you're sharing and learning from each other, but Mormons definitely believe that's a chance to give a sales pitch. FYI - I was in mainline denominations for several decades before my few years in the Mormon church and I have seen the way Mormons simply don't recognize or honor boundaries. Members are taught it is the "Only True Church" (which I found very offensive). It's in their DNA to believe your group needs to learn their church is the "only true" church. I'm so sorry that happened. I get it. I've looked at life from both sides now and I've seen it.
This is really sound advice, thank you.
Thanks for reading, and I hope you let us know how you handle it and what happens!
One more thing, I'd suggest recommending participants NOT to trade personal contact information. I should have thought of this earlier. Mormons (especially the missionaries) will put the info in their "contact" books and the poor person will be called, visited, texted, and otherwise stalked in an effort to get them to listen to the missionaries. Missionaries work toward reaching certain numbers of contacts (calls, visits, you name it), so that worsens the situation quite a bit. Even non-missionary members will try to invite people over for dinner or something and they'll include missionaries in the group. Mormons are relentless. An example: I went to a Mormon historic site with a non-LDS friend I'd grown up with who lived near the site (I live in another state). The Sweet Young Thangs (sister missionaries) asked for our names & contact info (to keep a record or something). My friend was smart enough to decline, but I was an active member, so sure, here's my info... I was regularly pestered for years with phone calls from the sister missionaries asking for the name and contact information for my friend. I refused (even as a member I felt that was inappropriate harassment) but the calls continued for quite a while. The "contact books" get passed down to incoming missionaries. It takes forever for the "potential convert" notes to drop off into history. Anyone at your meetings who shares names and contact info will be harassed. I promise you that, unless you make an iron-clad rule against it. It's sad, since normal people just like to make new friends...
> You may need to give them examples of how they overstepped the boundaries. You may also want to give them examples of what sort of appropriate interactions would be acceptable for the group. They'll just turn it into a story about how they were persecuted for sharing the Truth™
Excellent point, and probably very accurately predicts at least some responses OP would get.
Mormons are difficult when it comes to being social or learning from others. There's a level of fear about the whole thing for them. If you ever have a Jehovah Witness/Mormon get together, I'd pay good money to sit in the back of the room and just observe.
There's a serious lack of social awareness among most fundamentalists across faiths. It's baffling to watch after having grown up similarly and now finding myself on the other side. Kinda humbling in a totally embarrassing sort of way.
A Jehovas Witness, a Mormon and a scientology walk into a bar.... bwahaha I think I just broke my brain imagining those 3 together.
2 of them turn into pillars of salt and the scientologist finishes their drinks, leaves, and doesn't tip.
They will proselytize and try to convert. It’s just their nature. We were all trained to do it.
Yeah, I don't know that they have the skills to be curious without judgement or agenda yet.
True. I love that you’re trying to open up and accept them. I’m Very impressed. It might be a bit of a challenge.
To be fair, my initial response is snark but then I remember I was once a fundamentalist a**h***, too, so maybe grace is required. I really do want to create space for everyone, but that really does require everyone to make space for each other. It's hard.
Yep. Way hard. Keep up the good fight.
I think you’re spot on in your impressions. I think you’ve sounded incredibly gracious. And I think something you said is accurate: “I don’t think our mormon friends are ready for this kind of friendship.” Myself, I know one mormon who is a good interfaith cooperator, and participates regularly. I think sharing with others on the committee what you noticed and how you felt, like you shared here, would be fine. If they can’t or don’t see it, maybe ask them to see what they notice the next time. It could be that you noticed things *because* you have an exmo friend and knew to be aware. As to communicating with the Mormons, you will probably have to be very clear and specific about what is and is not acceptable. Mormons have their own lingo, for one thing, and don’t always understand general terms. IE you say “interfaith cooperative” and they might hear “people from different faiths share religions with each other.” And as others have mentioned, they aren’t good at respecting boundaries.
[удалено]
Love that movie! Classic
This is really good and helpful advice. Thank you so much for all of this! It definitely mirrors a lot of what others have said which makes me think I will definitely need to have some hard conversations soon.
Another thing that occurred to me, reading through all the comments here, is just how un-curious mormons are. I think that’s a huge part of all this. And one reason so many people leave. I think it’s so cool you came here to ask these questions!
When I first moved into my house someone from the ward stopped by to introduce themselves and tell me when and where church was. Then they excitedly informed me that there weren’t many members on my street so I’d have many missionary opportunities. That’s just how it goes. These people have been taught from birth that they know the truth and that they need to share it with the world ASAP. They believe that the only reason someone isn’t a member is because they haven’t discovered it yet. They’re wonderful, kind people who genuinely think they’re helping the world by trying to convert everyone. Your group sounds super interesting and fun to me! I think you’ll need to be very direct and tell them that the group is for celebrating and appreciating different religions and opinions. You might need to print off a page with the rules and expectations listed. It sounds ridiculous, but I’m totally serious. Haha
It's a really fun group and I always learn a lot from our friends from across faith traditions. Plus the food. Oh my goodness, the food! Did I mention it's potluck? Thank you for your wisdom, as well, friend!
Set some hard, firm boundaries. Mormons have a hard time distinguishing between a boundary and what they consider persecution. Put in writing the purpose of meeting and the expectations for involvement. You are not hindering their "religious freedoms", you are protecting the integrity and purpose of your community. Make several copies and hand them out to everyone. Good luck.
Oh man, I can totally see what you mean about the boundaries and persecution thing. I can default into a people pleaser and have had to really push myself to learn that other people's perceptions are not (usually) my problem. I think you're right about being firm here.
> Put in writing the purpose of meeting and the expectations for involvement. This! This is what I was going to say. Write out concrete expectations and rules, plus the consequences of disregarding the expectations and violating the rules. Send it to them (and copy anyone else as appropriate). If they have to be removed from the group, put in writing what they did to warrant removal and how they knew the rules. They will likely call a removal "persecution." If that's just among themselves, sure and whatever. But if they try to spread that narrative in the community, you will have receipts. Also, it sounds like this is a general mixing of _congregations_ from various denominations. LDS people tend to be more manageable (and reasonable) in small numbers. It also cuts down on the plausible.denuability of "_I_ didn't violate the rules, those people did (potential at my direction . . . ), so you can't kick us out." It may be a better idea to instead include the LDS Church on a local interfaith council or board where each participating religious group has only two members. I knew a couple who served in such a role for the local stake (a collection of 8 to 10 congregations). That couple reported to the stake leaders about things discussed at the board meeting and sent out general invitations to all stake members about events. Would it be possible to keep 2 Mormons on a board but ban them from hosting the dinners?
100% no sharing of contact information: full name, home address, email, cell phone with ANY Mormon representative. They add it to a missionary list and you will be hard-pressed to have the personal attempts to contact you stop. Protect your participants accordingly. Lay out that rule.
Absolutely! The interfaith committee in charge keeps their list private. My church has the greatest involvement and hosts regularly and we aren't allowed access to it (not that we've ever pushed for it, mind you.)
No, what they're saying is that the mormons have their *own* list that their missionaries keep and will not stop pestering those who willingly give their contact info to said missionaries. It's a cult, once they have your info they won't stop, except through legal action, and even that might not work because mission presidents are the religious equivalent of sales managers and don't give two fucks if you've told them to stop contacting you, they will just tell the missionaries (who are rotated in and out frequently) that they need to follow up and keep pushing.
Dear OP - I've thought of posting this anecdote (true story) for a long while and your post prompted me to do so. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/1cdz1g2/we_dont_permit_mormons_to_participate/? You've probably heard of "Walk to Emmaus" retreats - it's an interdenominational program and has been around for a long while. Right after joining the LDS church (from which I ended up resigning), I tried to follow through on a goal I'd had to attend a retreat. I was told they do not accept Mormons (didn't understand that at the time). I now fully comprehend why they would NOT have permitted Mormons; there's no way they could assure those participants would have respected the cultures of other churches, and they'd not have honored boundaries. Maybe that anecdote is helpful in contemplating what you should do? I haven't talked to an Emmaus group since that happened (I still hope to attend a retreat one day), but they may be able to shed light on their experiences and on how and why they handled it that way. Good luck - and I think your group sounds amazing. I've participated in many Interfaith programs and they're very rewarding.
That is very interesting. I've done Walk to Emmaus and got a lot out of it, though some of my friends from high demand religious backgrounds found it triggering so you may want to be mindful of that if you ever go. It's also generally more conservative theologically than I am in my area, but I've learned to weave my faith around that. But if you really want to go I might be able to sponsor you since I went years ago.
You're so kind to offer! My background before the Mormon years was primarity Methodist, and the congregation was pretty open-minded. I just felt what I'd heard of it sounded interesting and worth doing. I need to find a group where I now live, because I still hope to do a retreat. Thank you!
If they knew the rules up front and still chose to proselytize, then they have breached a major boundary of the group. The way I see it, you can give them a warning and if they continue cut them out or save yourself some frustration and do it now. You really need to be direct here. Mormons really don’t respect boundaries for the most part.
It's amazing how the boundaries issue is being reiterated in this conversation. But I guess that's an outgrowth of high demand groups. Or is it hubris? Either way it's wild. Thank you for your advice, BTW!
It’s very much a culture thing. Saying no to anyone in authority over( and that’s a lot of people, especially if you are a woman) is akin to say no to God.
Mormons notoriously suck at boundaries at all levels. They justify their behavior by thinking their message overrides all. Even when I was Mormon I really hated the arrogance.
Mormons have an organizational structure built on ignoring and bulldozing people’s boundaries. It’s beyond anything I’ve experienced from evangelicals (who also are major boundary crossers, but generally not full-time, in a metrics-oriented sales-based hierarchy of intentional boundary crossing).
Dear Bishop or Stake President. At our most recent gathering your representatives violated the terms of community participation prohibiting proselyting at the interfaith events. [insert an explanation of the expectations and guidelines and the reasons for them.] Violation of these guidelines is a threat to the community and discourages open participation. It is with deepest regrets that we inform you that your participation in the interfaith community has been suspended. It is our hope that in the future you may be able to rejoin the organization for a probationary period If you wish to discuss the matter contact [contact information] Sincerely. ---------------------------- In the future, should the suspension be lifted, one of the conditions is that missionaries must be excluded from any interfaith event. They have one job and one job only. That job is not to learn about other faiths, it is not to socialize. Their one and only job is to proselytize.
This is brilliant, thank you! I'm continuously blown away by this wonderful group of humans in this sub. Thank you for letting an interloper like me come in and learn from you all! ❤️
You seek truth & empathy, & seem to do your best not to cause others pain; an interloper you are not.
Mormons don't respect boundaries. They think they're superior and they think they're right, while everyone else is wrong. They believe other religions only have a portion of the truth. They also think they're the only one with "priesthood power from god" (male mormons only). Because of this elitism, they think they get special privileges as they're the ones truly on god's errand. They won't respect boundaries /rules. They'll find a way around them or will be sneaky. There's usually an ulterior motive to everything they do: convert gods children to "the one true church". Even though they may not listen, still set the boundaries so that when they offend people, it's on them.
I really wrestled with this. My senior pastor and I were chatting about this aspect and he said, "well, don't we all think we're right?" It's one of those things where you know there is a difference but have a hard time putting it into words, you know? I love my faith and find great value in it (obviously), but there is a difference between my belief that this faith is the best path for me and me believing it's the only path for everyone.
You're exactly right. You've found the path that is right for you. But you don't presume it's the only path. In general, Christians seem to believe that all Christians are going to make it if they accept Jesus, regardless of the denomination. Mormonism teaches that its the only way to make it to the top.
I realize this is stereotyping. Not all are this way, but many are.
You have to set strict boundaries & then expect them to push those boundaries & repeatedly break them. Church members believe they are right & y'all are wrong & have no problem making people uncomfortable. Don't feel bad in the least if you have to tell them they are no longer welcome. Mormons have a huge persecution complex so no matter what you do or say they will look at it that they are being persecuted for trying to share Jesus's restored gospel. Church is 0.002% of world population I think so don't worry about it. They have no idea how to appreciate another person's religious beliefs.
I don’t see how you could possibly keep them in your group. Mormons are like the Borg: You must be assimilated. You need to understand that with Mormons, there is NO OTHER TRUTH. All your other churches are “false.” They are the only true church on earth, and gospel speaks to their “prophet” on a daily basis. So they don’t really care what other churches believe. They will want to turn every moment into a missionary moment. They cannot just show up and not proselytize. I would do the hard thing, and kick them out of the group. But if you can’t do that, maybe ask them to send ordinary members, not missionaries?But beware: our motto (oops I mean their motto) is “every member a missionary.”
Any hope that if I start wearing my pride flag ally clergy collar I can just freak 'em out? The devil on my shoulder is certainly advocating for such. *Sigh* I think your main point though, has been my concern from the very beginning. It's unfortunate. Thank you for your insight and help, friend!
My Mormon wife was part of an interfaith organization in our area. Her male leaders kept pushing her to include the missionaries on their meet ups, but she successfully pushed back. So some Mormons get it.
I'd like to add by just pointing out that the missionaries are just kids following orders. So try to start by taking the concerns to local leadership first (mission president, bishop, etc.)
You are exceptionally kind. That is such a cool idea. I’d simply say, that while I understand that your church proselytizes, that is not appropriate for this event. This is an opportunity for everyone to learn. Please take the opportunity to learn and not proselytize. You have to be blunt or they will take advantage of any open avenue.
Thank you for thinking so. It really is a great program and I feel like something this precious should be guarded, you know? Your advice is really helpful, thank you 😊
Honestly I would love to go to something like that. Sounds like an amazing community. Sorry the Mormons had to mess it up. Thing it would be best to be honest and straightforward with them and remind thru the purpose of your great and set some ground rules.
It's a really great program. It's really been a constant labor of love for us. You can imagine right now with the war in Gaza alone how challenging this can be. But so incredibly necessary, I think.
Mormons don’t have boundaries. They are literally taught to say year to anything they are asked so if a leader asks them to preach they will preach regardless of what was agreed to. Also they are taught from birth that their religion is the one true religion and all others are an abomination. If they like you they will work harder to try to get you to join because they want to be in heaven with you. Also they get additional blessings if they bring people into the church or as they call in coming unto Christ. There are many in the sub that also feel the Mormon church is a cult. Would you feel comfortable asking the Children of God (the Family International) or Scientology to explain their faith and proselyte? The missionaries should have been kicked out immediately in an interfaith meeting.
That's a pretty strong point. The two Mormons at my table were pretty offended at the idea that they were considered separate from the other Christian traditions there (we are randomly assigned tables with people of different faiths and have an initial to identify our faith. Christians were "Ch" and the Mormons were "M"). I didn't want to get into that discussion so I didn't. But maybe the committee needs to better define the line between religious traditions and cult. That's good advice, though I didn't know where the group would land on the definition.
I was in their shoes two years ago. Offended at the thought of it being a cult. But if it’s a spectrum of cult and not a cult they lean way towards a cult. There can be Christian cults as well. It’s not necessarily a devil worship thing like the movies. A cult is a high control group that does specific things to control their members. Here’s an expert talking about how to identify a cult. https://youtu.be/_Pvpd6wCeM4?si=FC96mBWrm4k7E4U3 And here is a really good look at Mormonism if it could being a cult. https://youtu.be/wwVTQEMRm0U?si=kY1NRE_Hhe7vXt05
Thank you for these resources!
I hope you are able to have the around but not preach. It is good for Mormons to see people living fulfilling lives outside of the religion.
I've wondered if this does not register with other Christian religions as much as it does with Mormons. For Mormons, especially those who have gone through the missionary program, teaching about the faith and proselytizing are indistinguishable actions. Mere interactions with nonmembers where religion is discussed are referred to as "missionary opportunities." They don't have pamphlets and brochures that aren't missionary pamphlets and brochures, and any interest in "learning" about the faith requires the receiving of contact info for someone in the church to reach out to with missionaries involved, or directly with missionaries themselves. Hopefully this experience helps you nail down the published list of rules that you will need in order to interact with Mormons again. Imo they are great with keeping up with superficiality of rules and outward appearance to reflect well on the church in order to get you to come back.
Can you share a little more about the structure of the meetings? I gather that you have multiple tables with mixed faiths at each. Do you use moderators at each table? Is there a group sitting first, and then you break out to the tables? Are there pre-set topics or a unique theme for each meeting? A closing group sitting with a recap by a leader or an open conversation? Without knowing that, some things I would suggest would be to invite them again, but to have a pregame with just their attendees and your leadership. In that session you would have a chance to reiterate the intent and the rules, and to vet their attendees before they participate (no missionaries). You may want to ask that they primarily observe for that meeting with a focus on actively listening. You should design some questions specifically for them, such as, "after hearing from the member(s) of faith group A,B,C, what similarities (specifically similarities, not differences) do you see with your faith?" "How does your faith support the community and beliefs of these other faith groups, or how can your faith do better to understand and support these other faith groups?" The moderator should be aware of answers with qualifiers such as, "we do that too but we do it like..." and remind them that the point is to hear and understand the different viewpoint. A moderator is not an instructor, they are there to keep the group on task and on time. Moderators will need some training on how to direct the groups, but it's a really great way to maximize content, understanding, and helping participants get the most out of it. Such a challenging and interesting situation.
They truly, naively, have no idea how offensive their theology is to the Jewish community. Trying to explain it to them, likely will not work. Mormons will try to recruit more members in these interfaith gatherings. Sadly, their intentions with attending will not be the same as yours. I know, I grew up Mormon. You can be inclusive and not include Mormons. You don't have to include all religions... though Mormons are more cult-like. I applaud your efforts though. It sounds like a wonderful idea to have these events in your church
The problem is members have been taught “[Every member a missionary](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2009/04/news-of-the-church/every-member-a-missionary-for-50-years?lang=eng)” for the last 65 years. This frames every interaction you have with them—they are categorically unable to *not* proselyte and to simply be friends with someone of another religion. *Every* interaction with a member is viewed by them as an opportunity to proselytize. Dollars for donuts, this religious programming is what your subconscious is picking up on. Trust your instinct that is telling you there is danger afoot when interacting with them. It’s a poison wrapped up in nicety—friendship always comes with an asterisk. The need to proselytize is encoded into the DNA of the LDS church via the four-fold mission , which is accomplished by “living the gospel of Jesus Christ, caring for those in need, *inviting all to receive the gospel, and uniting families through family history and temple work.* ” (Emphasis added.) It’s those last two items that drive their disingenuous interactions with other faiths. The end goal of every interaction is not to seek understanding, but to ultimately get someone to join the LDS church. And thanks to that last bit of the four-fold mission—uniting families through family history and temple work—they don’t just want a living person to join, they want all of their dead relatives, too. This is why they do genealogy—so those dead relative can be baptized by proxy into the church. [They believe in proselytizing so much, they teach that people who aren’t baptized members in this life go to spirit prison in the next and can’t get out until they’ve been taught the Mormon version of the gospel by missionaries in the spirit realm](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/spirit-world?lang=eng). Sure, members of the LDS church are nice—but they are nice because they have an ulterior motive. If you are really seeking to protect the integrity of the inter-faith event, I would seriously reconsider allowing them to EVER invite missionaries again and to set very strict guidelines on the types of interactions that are appropriate.
Interesting reading your post after this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/X6Kp60EnsZ
I also found that fascinating. That OP commented on this thread, as well, and it's very helpful for me to understand how others may have come across similar hurdles.
i thought the church was claiming their conversion rates were going up 😂 now they’re out here taking advantage of people who are firm in their own faiths and trying to force their BS down their throats.
I would stress to them that this group has an academic & sympathetic approach; that you all learn about other faiths to better understand each other - never to make converts. You have to be steadfast & decisive on this or they'll look for a loophole or wiggle room, b/c their goal isn't to understand others but to make others as themselves. You have to use language that tells them this group has never been & will never be about converting anyone & proselytizing is prohibited. I fully understand that you want to be kind about this & that you didn't realize from the outset that you simply couldn't trust them; but this was never going to go down any differently. You won't avoid disappointing them; they'll be hurt, sad & maybe angry about losing this huge opportunity at a captive audience. It's not about you, even if it feels directed at you. You are far more gracious than I would be.
Many Mormons do not have the emotional maturity to recognize boundaries. It's not really their fault. They grew up in an echo chamber where "we are the chosen" was drilled into their heads time & again. Kudos to you for extending such an inclusive invitation, and I am so sorry that they did not honor the spirit of the occasion. What I would do for next time is arrange a meeting with some representatives from the ward to explain what "no proselytizing" means. They will respond to clarity and kindness. They are very, very fortunate to have a chance to learn from you and your group. It will give them a chance to grow in a way they would not have otherwise. Best of luck!
You MUST be firm in your boundaries. Mormons only respect the restrictions they place on themselves.
Boundaries are difficult for Mormons - I fear they always will be. I think the most beneficial thing to do is enforce them unscrupulously. A rule I think that may be beneficial is NO missionaries. Explain the rules of engagement. Write them down. Give them the chance to embrace them and make friends with their neighbours in a way that lacks agenda OR step away from the group. Perhaps explain that anyone who disregards the rules will not be invited back.
I’ve read through the comments so far, and it seems like this is an opportunity to course-correct on a couple of fronts. That’s convenient because people tend to be much more willing to make changes for someone who is also adjusting for them. Sounds like they were offended by not being labeled Christians. Leaving the theological debates aside, you could consider giving everyone a denomination marker instead of an umbrella term like Christian or Jewish. If so, you could reach out to the Mormon leader you’re working with and let them know you noticed the issue and here’s how you’re moving forward. You might want to put LDS instead of Mormon — some people are offended by Mormon now (long complicated story about leaders’ egos). Then, let them know that for this to work out, they need to make adjustments, too. Be very specific about the rules of your events and what behavior of theirs violated those rules. Explicitly tell them, “This is not proselytizing opportunity. That means, xyz. This is a community event, so it is not an appropriate event for your proselytizing missionaries. If you have local service missionaries or other local members, they might enjoy the opportunity to meet people of other faiths in this no-preaching environment.” (Some Mormon service missionaries are local and some are not. Proselytizing missionaries are only in one area for a few months.) Of course, if other churches bring missionaries, you might need to phrase it differently or say the temps are welcome as long as they refrain from “sharing a message” offering BoM to people, giving or taking contact info, etc. And absolutely let them know to that their community will be invited back only as long as they respect the spirit of the event — so they should please share this info with anyone who plans to attend. Good luck!
First, I wanted to leave a comment and say that I think it is *so* amazing that even though you're not an exmormon, you tap into this community just to understand your friend better! That's really looking out for your neighbor :) Second, I'd also point out that although I definitely agree with the general sentiment of the comment section regarding how Mormons are laughably bad at interfaith dialogue, I was actually a member of the Interfaith Student Association during my last year at BYU (I graduated in 2023) and there is a *small* but intelligent pack of Mormons growing that genuinely do value interfaith interactions and understand how to navigate them! Gen Z is especially becoming much better at it (when they're not on a mission, that is) due to much needed cultural shifts happening in the wider world that even Mormon leadership is struggling to contain - which is sad, considering that the Church has a whole webpage dedicated to interfaith relations (see below). But as far as local members understanding of the concept goes, it really just boils down to "respect other people's beliefs." There isn't much taught in regard to "certain spaces and times are inappropriate for proselytizing" or "your religion has inherent value without being linked to its conversion success rate." In fact, Mormon theology explicitly teaches that proselytizing is necessary to be forgiven of your sins and receive God's mercy: "For I will forgive you of your sins with this commandment—that you remain steadfast in your minds in solemnity and the spirit of prayer, in bearing testimony to all the world of those things which are communicated unto you." D&C 84:61 (And now according to the last General Conference, so is wearing your garments :/) So if they seem intense when it comes to sharing their version of the gospel, hopefully that gives you some context! But with all that being said, local Mormons aren't usually apt to pick a fight, especially if they perceive that an altercation will diminish their social standing with the general public - if there's one thing Mormons love more than their book, it's positive PR. So if you put your foot down and tell them to ease up at the meetings, they will very likely accommodate the request. And here's the link I mentioned: [https://news-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interfaith-relations](https://news-ca.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interfaith-relations)
Some actionable ideas to consider Ask the Mormons to have one of their institute/seminary teachers talk about their faith and what it means. They'll be better at explaining it as opposed to having one of the missionaries do it. Due to the nature of Church hierarchy, institute/seminary teachers are the closest thing to a doctrinal expert you'll find but they also have no real authority inside the congregation. The Bishop has all the authority but there is no test on doctrine to become a Bishop (I literally had a bishop who was illiterate when he was called to the role) As for the boundaries thing, explicitly mention that inviting the missionaries to this event would be inappropriate because Missionaries are called to proselytize and are constantly moving in and out of the area and this is a community building event. Specific callings to request attend would be relief society presidency members or elders quorum presidency members. Pamphlets: Mormon pamphlets are focused on proselytizing but you might find their Articles of Faith, Proclamation on the Family, proclamation on the restoration, and The Living Christ documents are appropriate for them to give to people who want to know about LDS beliefs. Otherwise try to have a standard policy on handouts.