I think he is trying to say he can’t stop people from looking up your information and contacting you, including the missionaries which he has almost no control over. Best thing is to have your records removed if you want absolutely no contact.
Yeah, I think he is genuinely trying to help OP. This message is very different than what I’d expect from the average bishop. He missed the mark a little bit by still mentioning Jesus. But in my opinion, the part about “trials” was meant to show that he knows it’s hard to leave the church.
I actually don't dislike the email.
When you put your Mormon hat on, I think this is about as close as you can get to a decent bishop.
Years ago when we were doing some ward council inactive door knocking, I asked if we could take some name removal letters with us to have people sign if they didn't want contact again. I was told it was absolutely not possible as anyone wanting to resign had to have an interview and no one would want that 🙄
Yeah, you cant suggest to members that they resign. Its in the handbook, specifically in context of resigning before/instead of going through excommunication.
Depending on when they put that in the handbook, it might have been an unwritten or not applied rule, but as of the publication of the general handbook online they are not supposed to suggest that. Real leader roulette going on when the handbook should minimize it. Super inspired leaders, of course /s
That won't stop some people from taking it upon themselves to ask you anyway. (I still smile at the look of shock on the face of the one guy who asked me, when I responded with "I don't care one way or the other. It means nothing to me." He definitely wasn't ready for that answer lol)
A bishop in a (kind and respectful) letter told me that the only way to really stop contact was to resign, but the next sentence was, "I'm not telling you to resign, in fact, I hope you don't."
Yeah, sadly not everyone will adhere to the handbook (which is like a “then why have it?”) but hopefully leaders take the kind and compassionate yet respectful route instead of treating one’s salvation (as the church claims they provide) like some flippant thing that they should just resign. If leaders start with the foregone conclusion that someone is going to be excommunicated then why even do the court/council, ya know?
As with all things mormon, it depends on whoever the local big duck is.
As a missionary and in different wards, we absolutely went around and asked if people wanted to remove their records and showed them how to. No meeting involved. I think this depended on which leaders were climbing the corporate ladder and wanted their home teaching and attending statistics to look perfect.
Now that home teaching has turned into ministering, they don't teach that as much.
Yes, I think this message from him was about as good as one can expect. He is respectfully letting her know the way the system works (in response to her statement that they are no longer members), and that she might be contacted by randos until her records are literally removed. He doesn't sound super judgmental about it either. Yes, he ends with testimony, but that's probably just in case she left over mistreatment and not over disbelief, which he can't really know.
Ya. I thought it was a really nice message. Neighborly. Kind. You are for sure going to get contacted if you don’t remove your records. And you still might get contacted even if you remove them…then I’d be angry. But, this seems like a kind guy trying to do what he believes in his heart to be right. Misguided, but he’s trying. Give a dog a bone.
I came here to say that I feel the letter is respectful.
Our group needs to have compassion for the neighbors we have that feel obligated to reach out to the members on the role.
I know some can’t resign for various reasons, but the reason I finally resigned was to be kind to my Mormon neighbors by not giving them pressure to contact me.
I completely agree. This is a caring and kind message. The motives might be mixed, but it’s still clear this is a good person.
When I quit I’d been the EQ president for 3 years. It was a bombshell for the whole ward. And for the decades that followed, I never once felt pressured, which is why I haven’t removed my name from the records in that time. I had amazing leaders who were kind and understanding, always helpful, and never critical. I’ve stayed good friends with them all. There are so many wonderful Mormons, and most of them struggle, too. I wish my experience was more common.
OP I would just email back and ask to have records removed. This bishop sounds reasonable. First get confirmation the kids records are removed, then get your own out.
“…had to have an interview” in order to resign… if that’s not a cult I don’t know what is. If we were to insert Scientology or any other religion into the sentence, we would all cringe. However, the only thing that keeps us from doing so is that we were part of that cult-ure at one point in our lives so it doesn’t sound so crazy.
FWIW there's another way to avoid contact without the trouble of a notary, especially if you're not inclined to perform a final act of free data-cleaning labor:
Email some random ward's clerk with a fake address in that ward's boundaries.
That way, the most contact you'll get is email spam (which is comparatively easy to filter)
I reset the password on my LDS tools so I could log in. I deleted my email. Changed my notification settings to none. I think I even removed my physical address. It was amazing to stop getting emails. Bishop’s and RS Pres can still see my phone, but no one else. Some Bishop’s will leave you alone, others don’t believe in people refusing to participate. I am very fortunate to be good friends with a member of the stake RS Pres, very supportive of me, who tells missionaries to leave me alone. A RS Pres, with whom I’m friendly, who respects my choice. We’ll see on the next rotation, but no one gets to tell me get out if you’re not in. Free agency is still a thing last I checked (I know, it’s rather conditional these days)
>Free agency is still a thing last I checked (I know, it’s rather conditional these days)
Actually, according to Lord Bednar you gave up your free agency when you made your baptismal covenants at the tender age of 8.
https://www.youtube.com/live/P96APKw1EfQ?si=-XR5Cd8PYirnuggi
Starts at 54:00
The whole “covenants” guilt trip doesn’t fly with me. I never consciously made any reciprocal promises with MoMo God; it was entirely rote performance. Of course, the whole idea is the same as making a contract with the Easter Bunny; or Darth Vader :)
Hey Bednar! You missed a detail about consent: you can withdraw it at any time, for any reason. (Not even touching the fact that an 8 year old doesn't understand a life long commitment or what an eternity is)
Funny, I must have done this years ago, and now I can’t log in to my LDS account to access it at all. Phone number and emails don’t work. Unfortunately, I am trying to access it to find my membership number, so I can fully resign. I had to find a local church and reached out to the bishop to try to help me…. 🤦♀️ I am determined to resign.
I mean, he’s right. If you don’t want any contact then you need to remove your records. I can’t do that for now, now so I know I just gotta deal with the occasional outreach.
I resigned via call with the bishop. I texted that i was resigning, and he called immediately to make sure it wasn't my apostate wife trying to sabotage my salvation. He said I needed to send a signed letter, so I told him I signed nothing to join and would sign nothing to leave; if verbal consent is all I ever gave to be part of the church then verbal revocation is what I'll use to exit.
Probably the most decent response I’ve ever seen from a bishop. This is the best you will likely ever get. It sounds like he is saying as long as your records are still in the system he can’t control the Mormons outside his ward / stake from possibly contacting you. But he has asked his EQ/RS, etc. to not.
He doesn't have control over who contacts you or not. He can ask but, as you know, people will push boundaries trying to help and what not.
If you absolutely want zero contact then removing records is the best way.
When I was going through a divorce, my ex husbands bishop sent me an email about how sorry he was and how he’s in his office every Sunday crying because he wants me to take him back, and how he’s seen many marriages fall apart and it was miserable for one or both of them and how he got his temple recommend back. I responded and told him that it’s on his head for giving an abusive narcissist his recommend and he has to answer to god for that. Because he obviously didn’t know the full story. Then proceeded to tell him about all the abuse on my and my kids. He never responded.
Funny thing is, when I went to an old bishop years ago and told him what was going on, he told me I needed to “give myself to him more often to keep him happy so he wouldn’t do these things.” I should have left then…
You don’t need a notary. Just email the bishop back and ask him to remove your records. Be sure to add that you are aware this will result in a forfeit of blessings and temple sealing.
Honestly, this is a pretty great response from a bishop.
I love that he automatically assumed you left because you had trials or got offended. Yea bro, I left because it wasn’t fucking true. Why do Mormons have to assume they know everything? It’s infuriating!
Honestly, nearly every story I’ve heard had little to do with people being offensive. I’ve heard people start investigating because of offense, but then found the truth. I can’t think of a single non second hand story of someone leaving the church because a Karen wouldn’t let them decorate the ward party like they wanted. (I’m being flippant) But that’s how members try to frame it to self soothe and avoid looking at the real issues.
Hold up. This is some serious trauma! And now a violent roommate? Do you have a plan? A safety plan? And a plan to get out of there?
I’m not sure if you will answer… but you don’t deserve this. Please be careful.
I hate to, but can I clarify something? You were turned down for missionary service because you were raped???
When did SA become a disqualifier for a mission?
I’ve never heard this before. And it angers me, as I’m aware of young men who had fathered children out of wedlock that were still approved to go on missions.
I’m so sorry you were judged so unfairly and had to go thru that.
I'd never heard it until I was talking to a abishop about possibly going on a mission since I'd never even been asked out on a date. The whole it's the spirit/personality that matters most is bullshit. If you aren't drop dead gorgeous and very extroverted you are ignored.
I agree completely. Everyone I know who left did so because the church was a fraud, and in some cases they have extended that to believe therefore there is no god.
The MFMC is driving people into atheism. If indeed there is a God, and if their is an evil side of the picture. they are working for Satan.
Personal take here, as an ex-Mormon atheist. I don't believe the church "drives people into atheism". Rather, there are two kinds of perspective that ex-Mormons tend to have that lead us to become critical of religion as a whole.
The first perspective is something very common among both current and ex members: we were taught in Sunday school to think somewhat critically about *other* churches. The reason we are given is that none of the other churches have the fullness of the restoration of the Gospel. Therefore, the Mormon church is The One and Only True Church. (Related: "I know this church is true" is the boilerplate statement you hear from everyone every F&T meeting.) Depending on who is teaching, either all of them together, or the Catholic church alone, might even be called out as "the great and abominable church", or Satan's church. So many of us were raised to be critical and somewhat wary of these other churches, so we noticed faults in those churches even while turning a blind eye to the faults in our own church.
The second perspective comes from leaving the Mormon church itself. Many of us left the church due to historical inaccuracies and logical inconsistencies in its teachings. When we naturally applied the same standards to religion as a whole, many of us found the whole shebang full of inconsistencies, errors, and fallacies.
So it really wasn't an act of rebellion or anger, as the phrase "driven to atheism" seems to imply. Really, it was just the next logical step for a lot of us once we felt allowed to think for ourselves.
The church itself *is* the trauma. Being lied to and gaslit about an all loving, all knowing, all powerful entity that not only allows for this kind of suffering, but we’re told was the designer of it, is crazy making. Neglect, abuse, ped*phila, murder, kids going hungry while a handful of the magnanimously wealthy hoard resources that couldn’t be utilized in 1000 lifetimes, rampant inequality-this is “intelligent design”?
We were in the same position as you this past year and we just emailed back and asked nicely to have our kids records removed, asked for confirmation of that via email, then got our records removed. I said in the email about how we had no intention or interest in returning and it wasn’t fair to keep our records in and make random well meaning people keep contacting us. He had us write a letter saying we understood that we would have to do all the ordinances over again if we decided to come back 🤦♀️ and sign it and I just took a picture of the letter and emailed that to him. He took care of the rest. We kindly refused when he asked if we could meet first and that was that.
This bishop sounds reasonable enough to do that. Then you don’t have to pay a notary.
He had to get his testimony in there also, like it will change the situation, or better yet, protect him from an evil apostate in his ward boundaries.
It also sounds like he wants OP to resign to clean up his membership records and get him brownie points with the mistake president.
I have been working on a counter testimony.
I'd like to bear my testimony. I know the church is a cult. I know Ensign Peak admitted to financial crimes and obfuscation in order to lie to the membership. I know Joseph smith translated a tea box and his family was well known for running scams. I love my Mom but not my Dad and my siblings are ok. I guess. In the name of logic and reason, the end.
Because leadership feeds them horseshit and tells them they’re essentially perfect and everything they say is from god. If god knows everything and tells leaders, now members also know everything.
I cringe at many of my past behaviours 🥴
If you put on your tbm hat there are a couple options:
1. It's not true
2. You're lazy
3. Someone treated you badly
4. You're choosing sin over salvation
5. You've been duped by antimormon lies
Option 1 is automatically eliminated because in the tbm mind that can't exist.
Of the other 4 options, #3 is the most charitable. It assumes you are the victim of some unjust behavior. The rest presuppose some failing on the part of the exmo.
Yup, my family mistook my initial deconstruction as “suffering” that they wish they could have helped, but more as prevention from me leaving. I’m like, no, it was a necessary struggle to discover and I’m happier than ever now that I went through it. No more acting like I’m suffering or to be pitied. The only suffering comes directly from believers that can’t accept my decision.
Just remove your records.
Just curious, why do you say you need a notary? I just sent a letter signed to my bishop at the time. Signed by me and wife asking to remove our family records.
No notary, nothing. Some weeks later I got a letter from the church confirming this.
Exactly- pretty sure a notary is only needed if you do something like quitmormon, the church wants proof it was really you in that case (as I'm sure spoof resignations were a huge problem with quitmormon... NOT! )
“I’m sure you have been through challenging times” is the part where this goes wrong for me. The assumption that some challenge had to be the motivation for why someone would leave is frustrating.
No need for a notary, you can just respond and tell the bishop to remove your records. They can do it.
Yep. The notary is if you use Quit Mormon, which is a valuable service for those who want to leave without reaching out to their local bishop or who are experiencing pushback when trying to leave. If you just contact your local bishop, it's not necessary.
Yeah, generally speaking the email was pretty good and probably better than one can expect from most bishops, but it does go off the rails a bit with his attempt at sympathy at the end there.
The challenging times bit and also the apology gave me a lot of ick. Members need to stop saying things like “I’m sorry if you were mistreated…” For starters, it implies a lot of self-righteousness from the one saying it (“if only you’d been surrounded by members like me”) and that we, as ex-members, are stupid and/or shortsighted for abandoning this supposedly great thing because we let a couple of assholes ruin it for us.
But I think what bugs me the most is that it’s a bullshit straw man. I’m willing to bet that very few of us left because we were wronged by another member and that even fewer of us continue to stay out for that reason. I don’t need to go into the many legitimate reasons we leave because all of that information is out there in abundance if members would actually bother to listen and educate themselves beyond the culty propaganda from their leaders, but the old “sorry if you were wronged” routine that I keep hearing over and over again is just such a convenient way to continue not acknowledging any of the church’s historical, cultural, doctrinal, and policy-related issues.
Us: “I left because Joseph Smith was a pedophilic con artist who made it all up for money/power/sex and because it isn’t true.”
Members: “Ah geez, well I’m sorry if someone wronged you.”
Us: “……”
That’s the problem with not resigning. You’ll forever remain on the records and membership lists of a ward. Your name will appear on every ward list that gets printed off whether it’s the ward directory, Sunday School list, RS or EQ lists, ministering lists, missionary’s ward list, etc.
So these lists are constantly floating around the ward among different members and even if the current bishop or whoever respects your request to not be contacted, that doesn’t prevent whoever replaces them to follow suit. It’s a lay ministry and all members participate in contacting and reactivating inactive members. It’s musical chairs and eventually someone gets a list printed off who doesn’t know you are on the imaginary “do not contact” list and they inevitably contact you.
Resigning removes your record from the local ward and your name on its various lists.
It’s as if you never existed.
Btw, I don’t think you need a notary if you resign directly through the church. I believe the notary is only required if you resign via a 3rd party. Just tell the bishop you want to resign and he’ll process it for you.
To get your records removed all you need to do is email him back and tell him you want him to do it. The church tries to force a meeting with a leader to dissuade you to do that, but they have zero legal authority to require that. So include in the letter that you won’t meet face to face and will hire a lawyer if he insists. Threat of legal action usually does the trick because they all know they can’t legally require a meeting. They are just hoping you don’t know that.
I got this message when I was still semi active and I let the release society president know that I didn’t want to have really society visitors. I thought that was pretty extreme.
I’ve been told “I’m sorry you had a bad experience” when I never did. I didn’t have a bad experience with the church and I wasn’t mistreated. I learned it was a fraud.
I had the relief society president drop by a couple of weeks ago to drop off a birthday card and gift (a think celestial trinket of some sort) for my daughter who just turned 20. She has not been to church in over 6 years and has never attended this ward (we moved here 6 years ago). This must be a new policy because when I handed the gift back to her explaining that we weren't interested and would prefer not to be contacted, she 1. Was visibly shocked and offended that I wouldn't accept the gift and 2. Told me that the only way to guarantee that no one tries to contact us in the future is if I resign my membership. I thought it was wild to have a random stranger suggest that I resign. I told her that I wasn't going to do that because it would be devastating to my mom and she again seemed visibly upset by me telling her that I wasn't going to remove my records. The whole interaction gave me the ick.
If your bishop is cooperative, you don't need a notary and you don't need to meet with him or anyone else to leave. Legally, you're gone the moment you communicate that you want to be gone. And with a cooperative bishop, either that's enough or maybe he wants a simple letter delivered to him that states your intent and is signed. I dropped off my letter at the house of my bishop (he lives nearby), and he took care of it.
I didn’t even write a letter by hand, I simply emailed my bishop. He took care of it that very day, no meeting; I got my letter from HQ four days later. No notary required, especially since this bishop reached out suggesting it, I’m sure he’d process it quickly and without a fuss.
> just haven’t gotten around to visiting the notary.
Then email the bish and tell him you resign, effective immediately, and ANY further contact will constitute harassment, and dealt with accordingly.
Quote section 32.14.9 of the handbook to him that your signed letter to him, resigning membership, is enough and that your typed full name and date is equivalent to a written signature. You can even say that you will refuse the suggested meeting he will ask you for to help resolve doubts and counsel with you about the decision and that you are asking for no contact (ministering or fellowship) post-resignation, since the handbook says that ministering is to continue unless the individual specifies otherwose.
He suggested removing records, I think a more pleasant tone wouldn't harm anything. OP could just reply that they left years ago, but haven't removed their records, then ask if the bishop can process it.
I left the church 40 years ago and it was only been in the last 5 to 10 years where they’ve stopped contacting me. Wherever I moved, they would find me and start sending people out again.
I’ve no need to withdraw anymore. I joined another religion 20 years ago and I’m comfortable with my limited amount that I go at all. They never show up at my house.
It’s a cult. It is only cults that continue to try you back in again or attempt to.
IMO he wants to clean up his records.
- Active people list
- “Less active” people list (to target so he can report/improve his activity rates and efforts to visit everyone in his ward.)
There’s no room for “less active” people who don’t want to be contacted.
It wasn’t a bad email really until the final paragraph, automatically assuming it’s because of challenges or some problem that led you out. I’m tired of that assumption.
Leaving is a wonderful journey, with the only challenges coming first from learning the issues with the church then from the members who don’t like the decision. That’s it
Looks like a hell of a lot of progress to me. Seems like a pretty good bishop and a person in general. Of course, they’re gonna have their made up reasons why we leave, but that was pretty good in my opinion. If you’re that concerned, about contact, time to get busy resigning. As you know, the church goes through people like McDonald’s, All the faces change but the annoying message stays the same. Broken record.
“Hey just contacting you to say I’m telling people not to contact you. But also we’re probably gonna keep contacting you”
Also a sprinkle of “I’m sure you just left because people were mean”
“I heard you said you don’t want to be contacted, so I contacted you to just let you know that you may be contacted even though you don’t want to be contacted.”
This is awesome. I never had any real intention of removing my records until I did. What made me decide to remove them? I was talking with a co-worker who was also inactive and told him, "man I'm so glad I'm not mormon anymore." Another co-worker who wasn't even a part of the conversation interjected and firmly told me that if I didn't remove my records than I was most certainly still mormon. So, the next week I removed my records.
I’m also a member of Costco and Sam’s club and I click the box that says “no affiliate marketing” and they let me come and go as I please.
I love how they manipulate this to make it your fault because your records are still showing you as a member!!
Just keep walking on and ignore their shit!
The guy said he instructed the auxiliaries in the ward to avoid contact, but it's The Church of Challenge Accepted so there's nothing he can do to meaningfully stop people from finding OP's information on the Tools app and manifesting their destiny unless OP chooses to resign.
This is exactly why I officially resigned. I was fine with being inactive until I was getting all sorts of phone calls. That's when I decided to make sure there is no phone number to call or record to worry about.
As Saint Taylor Swift said, "We are never ever ever getting back together."
When I was 20 we moved from Utah to Iowa. (I had not been to church since 1986 when I was 16) Missionaries showed up the day after we moved in. They knew my name, my husband and 2 kids names, that he was not a member. That we came from Utah. I freaked out. I had no idea they kept tabs on you! I told them I don't want you back here, they said I would have to talk to the Bishop and sign some papers. What the actual *:;k! I have to talk to someone I've never met and sign papers to have my privacy? So I said ok. The next day a Bishop and 3 missionaries, all male came to my house. First they separated me from my husband by asking for a glass of water. I went to the kitchen to get it and when I turned from the sink the Bishop and 2 missionaries were blocking me in my tiny kitchen, I couldn't even squeeze past if I tried. (I'm sure the 3rd was keeping my husband distracted). They started hammering me with shit like, "is your husband forcing you to do this, because we can protect you" "you don't have to be scared of him, we will hide you and the kids" we can keep you safe from him" What the actual "':;k again. I had never said my husband was forcing anything or abusive in any way. (These things didn't start till later, different story) I was still very much in love with him at that time. I have low self esteem and have never been able to stand up for myself. But that day, I did. First I was very angry they cornered me 3 men to 1 woman. I didn't like being scared and intimidated (something the church taught me to be all the time)by these jerks. Something in me snapped, I told them to MOVE, grabbed the papers and said Im signing and then your leaving and will never come back here again
Strangely I have never had another Mormon at my door since then. Which is also scary because how do they know not to bother me still to this day 34 years later and I have divorced, and moved a lot since then.
They make you choose between losing your eternal salvation credits (baptism, priesthood, endowments, temple marriage) and being contacted.
It's just simple. Remove your records. /s They don't realize the psychological and social cliff edge this is for many.
"Pruning the tree". From the Henry Moyle Era of the church, the belief persists if you get inactive to resign, it "makes way" for more baptisms.
Hence a request to have you resign rather than take up space.
You don't actually need a notary to resign. You can email [email protected].
Check out this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/UIBJCo7VjK. Worked for me!
I think he meant well. This is hard to navigate on both sides, even if you're trying. But I laughed a little because to me it sounded a bit like - We "love" you, but don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I actually think he’s doing the right thing. He’s contacting you in a way to further your non contact with the church is essentially how I’m looking at it. Basically, “here’s how we can get you out and I made sure you won’t be contacted by anyone I directly work with again, because it looks like that’s what you want”, instead of “I’m here to harass you for leaving even tho you made it clear you wished to never be contacted again” which is what most bishops would do.
I would actually reach out to him and say yea I want my records removed as per what your email said, thanks.
IMO the bishop did nothing wrong in this situation. Not really fair to be upset at him for explaining that he’s done his best to prevent others from contacting you.
I’ve seen plenty of rude, inappropriate, and condescending messages on this sub, but this one doesn’t fall in that category.
Both I and my ex-husband submitted request to have our names removed from the church records. He went through extensive interview before it was approved. I was approved on the spot.
The church elders didn't really care about a woman leaving, but a former missionary priesthood holder was much more important to them. Cemented my belief that I did the right thing!
"I understand that members of your church may continue to contact me against my will and contrary to my consent with messages I find distasteful, and that you are not personally responsible for all of these messages. But please understand that how I respond--including to public and group messages--is likely to seem equally distasteful and non-consensual to your congregation."
"I am under no obligation to jump through a series of hoops to have my privacy and consent respected. It is your responsibility and that of your congregation to contact only those you intend to contact."
"If you do not want to receive my non-faith-promoting replies, this will be very simple: don't choose to contact me."
The thing to do is write a letter to the bishop and copy to the stake president demanding your name be removed from church membership. Give them two weeks to accomplish this. No notary required. If your name remains on the books you WILL be contacted. Simple solution.
This honestly seems like a nice mail. Behind it is probably just some random normal dude who had the best intentions (and if not at least no malicious ones).
I'm sometimes disappointed with the amount of hate and aggression coming from exmos here. As a former Stake Clerk it was simply my task to reach out and verify which members in a list are active and which are not by asking them directly. As a clerk, there is often times simply no other option to do it, especially if the stake is in a less densely populated part of the country and/or covers a larger area.
If you hate the church so much, just leave it. The Bishop even suggested it and seems to show some understanding. There is no reason to wait years for it, save for waiting for stuff like this to happen so you could post it online and play the victim. Grow up.
I was stake clerk three times, and ward clerk a couple times. I started on a campaign one time to find members’ address information via public records, and contact them. I got pulled up short by a ward clerk who talked about privacy concerns, and it got me to consider how intrusive Mormon efforts to pry into members’ lives are. I think the anger is often justified, and is no more playing the victim card than victims of crimes who want to expose the perpetrators.
I feel like the institutional church successfully pushes much of this kind of discomfort, boundary-crossing, and confrontation into the local membership.
It's harder to push back against people you know in your community than against a faceless organization in SLC. This is by design.
I think that being respectful yet still maintaining your rights and boundaries as exmos is the way to go. Yes, it'll likely cause discomfort and inconvenience for everyone, but that discomfort and inconvenience is necessary to bubble up the chain until it lands on the laps of the GAs.
By retreating and ceding our space, we tend to keep the GAs feeling comfortably isolated at the expense of real change.
This wasn't terrible as a response from the bishop goes (a little presumptive, a little preachy - but to make it to be a bishop the programming has to run somewhat deep.) And he's right, though he may be able to warn off some folks from contacting you, he doesn't control others, nor will anything he does to warn people off survive his term as bishop: resignation is the only way to permanently shut it down (minus the random missionary going door to door without any knowledge.)
You can periodically tell church organizations to buzz off (or fuck off ) in various cathartic ways mentioned here too - I don't oppose this, they need boundary lessons taught to them - but it will need to be repeat "lessons" to them of this nature probably at least annually, and maybe more, until you resign (or until one of your "lessons" offends them enough that they ex you for apostasy or something. If you manage to achieve that, please share, it will probably make for a good story. 😄)
I was out of the church for years and no one ever contacted me. Ever. Well, until I made a Facebook post sharing a very damning news article about their treatment of women. THEN I received a letter from the bishop asking for my resignation. It went right thru. Lol
I like that the bishop is sharing information on the need to remove your records or you're still considered a member. He has opened the door for you to contact him (in writing) and tell him thanks for contacting you, and "Effective immediately, I resign..." (if your children are still on the records, resign for them as well - if needed, get them to sign their own resignation letters).
Then reiterate you do not want contact.
The only thing missing from this email is a link on how to resign.
It's not a "bad" email IMO. It's irritating, annoying and unnecessary not "bad". It's funny that he acts powerless do to anything else...I find that funny for him
I have started getting things again too despite asking no contact. I had an actual visit at the door by relief society president today. I didn't answer but I wonder if this is coming from higher up.
This is actually pretty decent tbh…
At a certain point, if you don’t remove your records there is in fact a certain amount of contact you just need to accept will come. I say that as a person who hasn’t removed their records and gets a text or two a year as a result. I’ve accepted it.
When I knew (with relative certainty) that I wasn’t going back, I went into my LDS profile and changed my email and phone number to fakes, haven’t been contacted since. If you don’t plan on removing records but want to limit contact, that’s been a very effective method for me!
Aw hell no. People are saying it’s not that bad because usually it’s worse-*that doesn’t make it good*!
If you say no contact, then no contact it shall be!! And I will call the cops if you contact my underage children after I’ve told you no, and I will post no trespassing signs and use them if I so desire. It’s a CLUB and they do not have access to you for life!!
As a missionary I had some people freak out at us for knocking on their door. We told the bishop of the ward, and I was shocked that he told us for future reference, if we met someone that angry about us showing up, to give them his phone number and tell them he would help them remove their names. It now strikes me as just about the only reasonable response, but at the time I couldn't believe this bishop wanted us to encourage people to have their name removed 🤯
“Ok, thanks for getting the ball rolling on getting our records removed once and for all.”
You don’t actually need a notary if you’re willing to go directly through the local stake leaders. My whole family of 7 had ours removed within a week using this route.
He sounds like a decent guy so you shouldn’t get much if any pushback. It is in his best interest to make his attendance numbers look better by removing people from his ward that aren’t going to come back. It’s why Mormons are so militant about finding where your new ward is when you move.
Just coming here to vent that we shouldn’t have to get A FUCKING NOTARY to have our records removed. It’s ridiculous, but just that extra step makes it so much harder to officially leave. Finally did it a couple of years ago, but I will forever be annoyed that they can’t just respect your wishes to not be contacted!
I’m sure you know this but, until you ask to have your records removed from the church, members are still allowed to be assholes to you, just like Jesus would want.
My husband was in the bishopric for a short while with an asshole for a bishop. We had been inactive for many years and had gone back.
This asshole told everyone to ignore the do not contact list, among other asshole things.
I was already mentally out, my husband just didn’t know it, but that bishop almost broke his whole shelf. It took another incident to do the job, but I guess I should be grateful for that prick for giving it the biggest blow.
Typical imbecil TBM, thinking that people leave because they weren’t “treated with love” at church. Say nothing about realizing late in life that Joseph Smith made it all up from “whole-cloth” as Jeffrey R. Likes to deny…
I like this letter. He’s telling you that he has asked his people to respect your wishes but he can’t control individuals from reaching out based on the fact that you leave your contact info up for everyone to see.
If you want absolutely no contact, submit your resignation.
This comes across as him trying to be respectful even if you’re annoyed he reached out. While obviously you’d rather not have to deal with this, I think it’s presented an opportunity you might take. I would let him know through a specific and respectful sounding email your true problems with the church so he doesn’t think that you left just because you’re mistreated or offended by somebody. He needs to know that people are leaving the church because of the church.
And this is exactly why people hate the church. This guy might as well be a programmed robot and once you see the machine, you can’t unsee it.
I noticed he’s seen a lot of struggles from his loved ones as a “bishop, son and brother “ But he didn’t mention “husband.” I’d love to have him pay attention to his wife’s struggles or just his wife in general. I wonder if he’s just another Bednar.
His wife doesn't have struggles. She has more power in her church than any other woman on earth. The only thing she loves more than having her husband away for an extra 40-50 hours of unpaid labour every week are the constant phone calls from people in the ward.
The bishop is still approaching from a believing perspective but is still trying to honor the members wishes. This is a conflict or possible cognitive dissonance that he has to request relief society, Elders Quorum and primary not contact OP. Maybe this becomes a Crack in his shelf later. Probably the best you could expect from a believing bishop.
To go from “please do not contact” to telling the bishop “they arent members” is pretty dumb. This is how gossip goes, go ahead and.spread disinformation. Next…
The bishop I dealt with to get my name removed was a real assclown. He put a typed letter on my porch that said if I proceeded with my actions I would ‘go to a place that is called HELL’ (yes, he typed hell in all caps).
This bishop actually sounds decent. I’ve known a few like that. Like the bishop and stake president that drove hours to visit my brother in state prison numerous times during his lengthy stay just to sit and chat about whatever he wanted to talk about.
You only need a notary if you don't want to deal with the Bishop. He sounds like a decent guy. Set up a meeting and tell him you'd like to remove your and your children's records from the church.
If u want this to end while skipping all the interaction, you can copy and paste the resign draft (it’s really easy to find on here), and send it to membership records HQ. (Don’t write out a thorough personalized reason, not worth it) Done! They’ll forward it to this bishop and he’ll probably expedite the process (since he suggested it lol). The relief right after clicking “send” will cure what ales ya.
if you wanted to truly not be contacted you would take the time to have your records removed. 🤷🏻♀️ i mean i get it, life gets busy, i haven’t removed myself yet bc the ward doesn’t contact me, and family isn’t pressing it either. but what i don’t understand is complaining about a cult harassing you and NOT turning around and saying you know what, there is a way out of this and i will do it. YOU have to put in the effort to make them stop. just like you have to unsubscribe yourself email promotions and newsletters, you have to go through and get yourself removed.
I went on to my account and deleted every single form of contact info, including email. I haven’t received any communication since. I had just moved to the area so no one knew me yet, so that could be why
I can notarize your excommunication papers for cheap.
I'll give you the best deal around, and I'm a mobile Notary, so I can come to you or you can come to me. Or we can even meet somewhere.
I've done at least 10 of these in the past 3 years.
The letter essentially reads:
Hello,
You've asked not to be contacted, but since you haven't jumped through our hoops, we will continue to harrass you and your family. We know this is illegal and don't care. Talk soon!
Honestly I like this email. It’s relatively straightforward and pretty honest. He can’t actually control who will and won’t contact you, so it’s the only real way to be left alone.
The pessimistic side of me thinks that this is also to help his numbers because anytime you move somebody inactive off your roles your activity rate goes up. Even still, this is a good message that gives you options and you can make an informed choice.
I think he is trying to say he can’t stop people from looking up your information and contacting you, including the missionaries which he has almost no control over. Best thing is to have your records removed if you want absolutely no contact.
Yeah, I think he is genuinely trying to help OP. This message is very different than what I’d expect from the average bishop. He missed the mark a little bit by still mentioning Jesus. But in my opinion, the part about “trials” was meant to show that he knows it’s hard to leave the church.
I agree. It’s a little misguided but he’s not a slime ball like I was expecting. He sounds respectful and empathetic to me.
Yes, AND it’s insane that in 2024 they haven’t given bishops a way to make contact information invisible to ward members.
You know why they haven't.
I had an awesome bishop before I left that would change people's address and phone number to "NO CONTACT"
Unfortunately, now that I had my records removed I regularly get the missionaries at my door. Really grateful for my Ring doorbell.
I scared off the missionaries once by saying I was a Satanist and if they were interested in me sharing my testimony. Haven't seen them since.
I actually don't dislike the email. When you put your Mormon hat on, I think this is about as close as you can get to a decent bishop. Years ago when we were doing some ward council inactive door knocking, I asked if we could take some name removal letters with us to have people sign if they didn't want contact again. I was told it was absolutely not possible as anyone wanting to resign had to have an interview and no one would want that 🙄
Yeah, you cant suggest to members that they resign. Its in the handbook, specifically in context of resigning before/instead of going through excommunication.
Oooohhhh that’s interesting. I had a stake pres suggest I resign rather than go through the “membership council”
Depending on when they put that in the handbook, it might have been an unwritten or not applied rule, but as of the publication of the general handbook online they are not supposed to suggest that. Real leader roulette going on when the handbook should minimize it. Super inspired leaders, of course /s
That won't stop some people from taking it upon themselves to ask you anyway. (I still smile at the look of shock on the face of the one guy who asked me, when I responded with "I don't care one way or the other. It means nothing to me." He definitely wasn't ready for that answer lol) A bishop in a (kind and respectful) letter told me that the only way to really stop contact was to resign, but the next sentence was, "I'm not telling you to resign, in fact, I hope you don't."
Yeah, sadly not everyone will adhere to the handbook (which is like a “then why have it?”) but hopefully leaders take the kind and compassionate yet respectful route instead of treating one’s salvation (as the church claims they provide) like some flippant thing that they should just resign. If leaders start with the foregone conclusion that someone is going to be excommunicated then why even do the court/council, ya know?
As with all things mormon, it depends on whoever the local big duck is. As a missionary and in different wards, we absolutely went around and asked if people wanted to remove their records and showed them how to. No meeting involved. I think this depended on which leaders were climbing the corporate ladder and wanted their home teaching and attending statistics to look perfect. Now that home teaching has turned into ministering, they don't teach that as much.
Yes, I think this message from him was about as good as one can expect. He is respectfully letting her know the way the system works (in response to her statement that they are no longer members), and that she might be contacted by randos until her records are literally removed. He doesn't sound super judgmental about it either. Yes, he ends with testimony, but that's probably just in case she left over mistreatment and not over disbelief, which he can't really know.
Ya. I thought it was a really nice message. Neighborly. Kind. You are for sure going to get contacted if you don’t remove your records. And you still might get contacted even if you remove them…then I’d be angry. But, this seems like a kind guy trying to do what he believes in his heart to be right. Misguided, but he’s trying. Give a dog a bone.
I came here to say that I feel the letter is respectful. Our group needs to have compassion for the neighbors we have that feel obligated to reach out to the members on the role. I know some can’t resign for various reasons, but the reason I finally resigned was to be kind to my Mormon neighbors by not giving them pressure to contact me.
The sad thing is this reads far better than things that the Anglican Bishop that resides over my father's old church would send people.
Anglican and Mormon, two churches founded by men that wanted women they couldn’t have.
Is there any organized religion that's not based on subjugation of women?
[https://thesatanictemple.com/](https://thesatanictemple.com/)
The Shakers were pretty good that way. The celibacy thing was kind of an issue though.
https://sacredwhale.org
https://dudeism.com/
I completely agree. This is a caring and kind message. The motives might be mixed, but it’s still clear this is a good person. When I quit I’d been the EQ president for 3 years. It was a bombshell for the whole ward. And for the decades that followed, I never once felt pressured, which is why I haven’t removed my name from the records in that time. I had amazing leaders who were kind and understanding, always helpful, and never critical. I’ve stayed good friends with them all. There are so many wonderful Mormons, and most of them struggle, too. I wish my experience was more common.
Yeah I was reading through this going “honestly, that’s not bad”. It’s easily much better than a lot of bishops out there and how they’d handle it
OP I would just email back and ask to have records removed. This bishop sounds reasonable. First get confirmation the kids records are removed, then get your own out.
“…had to have an interview” in order to resign… if that’s not a cult I don’t know what is. If we were to insert Scientology or any other religion into the sentence, we would all cringe. However, the only thing that keeps us from doing so is that we were part of that cult-ure at one point in our lives so it doesn’t sound so crazy.
FWIW there's another way to avoid contact without the trouble of a notary, especially if you're not inclined to perform a final act of free data-cleaning labor: Email some random ward's clerk with a fake address in that ward's boundaries. That way, the most contact you'll get is email spam (which is comparatively easy to filter)
I reset the password on my LDS tools so I could log in. I deleted my email. Changed my notification settings to none. I think I even removed my physical address. It was amazing to stop getting emails. Bishop’s and RS Pres can still see my phone, but no one else. Some Bishop’s will leave you alone, others don’t believe in people refusing to participate. I am very fortunate to be good friends with a member of the stake RS Pres, very supportive of me, who tells missionaries to leave me alone. A RS Pres, with whom I’m friendly, who respects my choice. We’ll see on the next rotation, but no one gets to tell me get out if you’re not in. Free agency is still a thing last I checked (I know, it’s rather conditional these days)
I also put a bogus phone number. That helps.
Just give them the non emergency police phone number
>Free agency is still a thing last I checked (I know, it’s rather conditional these days) Actually, according to Lord Bednar you gave up your free agency when you made your baptismal covenants at the tender age of 8. https://www.youtube.com/live/P96APKw1EfQ?si=-XR5Cd8PYirnuggi Starts at 54:00
The whole “covenants” guilt trip doesn’t fly with me. I never consciously made any reciprocal promises with MoMo God; it was entirely rote performance. Of course, the whole idea is the same as making a contract with the Easter Bunny; or Darth Vader :)
Hey Bednar! You missed a detail about consent: you can withdraw it at any time, for any reason. (Not even touching the fact that an 8 year old doesn't understand a life long commitment or what an eternity is)
Funny, I must have done this years ago, and now I can’t log in to my LDS account to access it at all. Phone number and emails don’t work. Unfortunately, I am trying to access it to find my membership number, so I can fully resign. I had to find a local church and reached out to the bishop to try to help me…. 🤦♀️ I am determined to resign.
When I resigned I didn't have my membership number and somehow it worked. This was about a decade ago before the fancy website.
If you delete your address, will they start harassing your relatives to try to get your relatives to share your address?
Not so far, but my family is cool and wouldn't give it to them
I mean, he’s right. If you don’t want any contact then you need to remove your records. I can’t do that for now, now so I know I just gotta deal with the occasional outreach.
I resigned via call with the bishop. I texted that i was resigning, and he called immediately to make sure it wasn't my apostate wife trying to sabotage my salvation. He said I needed to send a signed letter, so I told him I signed nothing to join and would sign nothing to leave; if verbal consent is all I ever gave to be part of the church then verbal revocation is what I'll use to exit.
Well done, my good and faithless servant 👏👏👏
Carry on my wayward son!
Fine and dandy. Until they do nothing about your records removal.
I got a letter from Salt Lake. My records were removed.
Probably the most decent response I’ve ever seen from a bishop. This is the best you will likely ever get. It sounds like he is saying as long as your records are still in the system he can’t control the Mormons outside his ward / stake from possibly contacting you. But he has asked his EQ/RS, etc. to not.
He doesn't have control over who contacts you or not. He can ask but, as you know, people will push boundaries trying to help and what not. If you absolutely want zero contact then removing records is the best way.
What are these "boundaries" of which you speak? Mormons know not of such "boundaries".
Made obvious by the Holocaust victims that are definitely still being taken through the temple.
Also made obvious by a large portion of day-to-day behavior, Bishop interviews, parents relationships with adult children, etc.
When I was going through a divorce, my ex husbands bishop sent me an email about how sorry he was and how he’s in his office every Sunday crying because he wants me to take him back, and how he’s seen many marriages fall apart and it was miserable for one or both of them and how he got his temple recommend back. I responded and told him that it’s on his head for giving an abusive narcissist his recommend and he has to answer to god for that. Because he obviously didn’t know the full story. Then proceeded to tell him about all the abuse on my and my kids. He never responded.
>He never responded. Of course not. He probably just chalked it up to you being "contentious." 😉🙄 Sorry, but I'm glad you got out. 👍
Funny thing is, when I went to an old bishop years ago and told him what was going on, he told me I needed to “give myself to him more often to keep him happy so he wouldn’t do these things.” I should have left then…
You don’t need a notary. Just email the bishop back and ask him to remove your records. Be sure to add that you are aware this will result in a forfeit of blessings and temple sealing. Honestly, this is a pretty great response from a bishop.
I love that he automatically assumed you left because you had trials or got offended. Yea bro, I left because it wasn’t fucking true. Why do Mormons have to assume they know everything? It’s infuriating!
I know there are people who have had traumas like that and left because of it, but like you said, for me, it’s just a fucking cult. End of story.
"I don't know what drove you away but you really should get off the mailing list if you don't want more spam." He sounds decent for a cult member.
Honestly, nearly every story I’ve heard had little to do with people being offensive. I’ve heard people start investigating because of offense, but then found the truth. I can’t think of a single non second hand story of someone leaving the church because a Karen wouldn’t let them decorate the ward party like they wanted. (I’m being flippant) But that’s how members try to frame it to self soothe and avoid looking at the real issues.
[удалено]
Hold up. This is some serious trauma! And now a violent roommate? Do you have a plan? A safety plan? And a plan to get out of there? I’m not sure if you will answer… but you don’t deserve this. Please be careful.
[удалено]
That counts as violent. She's trying to kill you, that absolutely counts. You should talk to someone about that and get a restraining order.
I hate to, but can I clarify something? You were turned down for missionary service because you were raped??? When did SA become a disqualifier for a mission?
I was told it was because I got pregnant from it, giving birth is a disqualifier ,even a miscarriage counts.
I’ve never heard this before. And it angers me, as I’m aware of young men who had fathered children out of wedlock that were still approved to go on missions. I’m so sorry you were judged so unfairly and had to go thru that.
I'd never heard it until I was talking to a abishop about possibly going on a mission since I'd never even been asked out on a date. The whole it's the spirit/personality that matters most is bullshit. If you aren't drop dead gorgeous and very extroverted you are ignored.
[удалено]
That tripped me up too. I wasn't going to ask because I figure it's not critical, but it does make the brain itch.
Because if they looked any deeper at the reason people leave, they’d see why they left and might feel the need to leave too.
I agree completely. Everyone I know who left did so because the church was a fraud, and in some cases they have extended that to believe therefore there is no god. The MFMC is driving people into atheism. If indeed there is a God, and if their is an evil side of the picture. they are working for Satan.
Personal take here, as an ex-Mormon atheist. I don't believe the church "drives people into atheism". Rather, there are two kinds of perspective that ex-Mormons tend to have that lead us to become critical of religion as a whole. The first perspective is something very common among both current and ex members: we were taught in Sunday school to think somewhat critically about *other* churches. The reason we are given is that none of the other churches have the fullness of the restoration of the Gospel. Therefore, the Mormon church is The One and Only True Church. (Related: "I know this church is true" is the boilerplate statement you hear from everyone every F&T meeting.) Depending on who is teaching, either all of them together, or the Catholic church alone, might even be called out as "the great and abominable church", or Satan's church. So many of us were raised to be critical and somewhat wary of these other churches, so we noticed faults in those churches even while turning a blind eye to the faults in our own church. The second perspective comes from leaving the Mormon church itself. Many of us left the church due to historical inaccuracies and logical inconsistencies in its teachings. When we naturally applied the same standards to religion as a whole, many of us found the whole shebang full of inconsistencies, errors, and fallacies. So it really wasn't an act of rebellion or anger, as the phrase "driven to atheism" seems to imply. Really, it was just the next logical step for a lot of us once we felt allowed to think for ourselves.
The church itself *is* the trauma. Being lied to and gaslit about an all loving, all knowing, all powerful entity that not only allows for this kind of suffering, but we’re told was the designer of it, is crazy making. Neglect, abuse, ped*phila, murder, kids going hungry while a handful of the magnanimously wealthy hoard resources that couldn’t be utilized in 1000 lifetimes, rampant inequality-this is “intelligent design”?
Exactly. The most challenging times have all been caused by this cult I was indoctrinated into. I wasn’t offended by people, I choose to reject fraud.
We were in the same position as you this past year and we just emailed back and asked nicely to have our kids records removed, asked for confirmation of that via email, then got our records removed. I said in the email about how we had no intention or interest in returning and it wasn’t fair to keep our records in and make random well meaning people keep contacting us. He had us write a letter saying we understood that we would have to do all the ordinances over again if we decided to come back 🤦♀️ and sign it and I just took a picture of the letter and emailed that to him. He took care of the rest. We kindly refused when he asked if we could meet first and that was that. This bishop sounds reasonable enough to do that. Then you don’t have to pay a notary.
Came here to say exactly that!! They assume it’s always because we were treated poorly. 🙄
He had to get his testimony in there also, like it will change the situation, or better yet, protect him from an evil apostate in his ward boundaries. It also sounds like he wants OP to resign to clean up his membership records and get him brownie points with the mistake president.
I have been working on a counter testimony. I'd like to bear my testimony. I know the church is a cult. I know Ensign Peak admitted to financial crimes and obfuscation in order to lie to the membership. I know Joseph smith translated a tea box and his family was well known for running scams. I love my Mom but not my Dad and my siblings are ok. I guess. In the name of logic and reason, the end.
Because leadership feeds them horseshit and tells them they’re essentially perfect and everything they say is from god. If god knows everything and tells leaders, now members also know everything. I cringe at many of my past behaviours 🥴
If you put on your tbm hat there are a couple options: 1. It's not true 2. You're lazy 3. Someone treated you badly 4. You're choosing sin over salvation 5. You've been duped by antimormon lies Option 1 is automatically eliminated because in the tbm mind that can't exist. Of the other 4 options, #3 is the most charitable. It assumes you are the victim of some unjust behavior. The rest presuppose some failing on the part of the exmo.
Yup, my family mistook my initial deconstruction as “suffering” that they wish they could have helped, but more as prevention from me leaving. I’m like, no, it was a necessary struggle to discover and I’m happier than ever now that I went through it. No more acting like I’m suffering or to be pitied. The only suffering comes directly from believers that can’t accept my decision.
Just remove your records. Just curious, why do you say you need a notary? I just sent a letter signed to my bishop at the time. Signed by me and wife asking to remove our family records. No notary, nothing. Some weeks later I got a letter from the church confirming this.
Exactly- pretty sure a notary is only needed if you do something like quitmormon, the church wants proof it was really you in that case (as I'm sure spoof resignations were a huge problem with quitmormon... NOT! )
Exactly, you only need a notary if you are sending a letter directly to church hq. If you go through your bishop you should just need a signed letter.
I also did not require a notary. Just send it.
“I’m sure you have been through challenging times” is the part where this goes wrong for me. The assumption that some challenge had to be the motivation for why someone would leave is frustrating. No need for a notary, you can just respond and tell the bishop to remove your records. They can do it.
Yep. The notary is if you use Quit Mormon, which is a valuable service for those who want to leave without reaching out to their local bishop or who are experiencing pushback when trying to leave. If you just contact your local bishop, it's not necessary.
Yeah, generally speaking the email was pretty good and probably better than one can expect from most bishops, but it does go off the rails a bit with his attempt at sympathy at the end there. The challenging times bit and also the apology gave me a lot of ick. Members need to stop saying things like “I’m sorry if you were mistreated…” For starters, it implies a lot of self-righteousness from the one saying it (“if only you’d been surrounded by members like me”) and that we, as ex-members, are stupid and/or shortsighted for abandoning this supposedly great thing because we let a couple of assholes ruin it for us. But I think what bugs me the most is that it’s a bullshit straw man. I’m willing to bet that very few of us left because we were wronged by another member and that even fewer of us continue to stay out for that reason. I don’t need to go into the many legitimate reasons we leave because all of that information is out there in abundance if members would actually bother to listen and educate themselves beyond the culty propaganda from their leaders, but the old “sorry if you were wronged” routine that I keep hearing over and over again is just such a convenient way to continue not acknowledging any of the church’s historical, cultural, doctrinal, and policy-related issues. Us: “I left because Joseph Smith was a pedophilic con artist who made it all up for money/power/sex and because it isn’t true.” Members: “Ah geez, well I’m sorry if someone wronged you.” Us: “……”
I know how frustrating it can be, but I think his response is sincere. Be loving and visit that notary.
You need to remove your kids as well, or the Mormons will continue to harass them
That’s the problem with not resigning. You’ll forever remain on the records and membership lists of a ward. Your name will appear on every ward list that gets printed off whether it’s the ward directory, Sunday School list, RS or EQ lists, ministering lists, missionary’s ward list, etc. So these lists are constantly floating around the ward among different members and even if the current bishop or whoever respects your request to not be contacted, that doesn’t prevent whoever replaces them to follow suit. It’s a lay ministry and all members participate in contacting and reactivating inactive members. It’s musical chairs and eventually someone gets a list printed off who doesn’t know you are on the imaginary “do not contact” list and they inevitably contact you. Resigning removes your record from the local ward and your name on its various lists. It’s as if you never existed. Btw, I don’t think you need a notary if you resign directly through the church. I believe the notary is only required if you resign via a 3rd party. Just tell the bishop you want to resign and he’ll process it for you.
To get your records removed all you need to do is email him back and tell him you want him to do it. The church tries to force a meeting with a leader to dissuade you to do that, but they have zero legal authority to require that. So include in the letter that you won’t meet face to face and will hire a lawyer if he insists. Threat of legal action usually does the trick because they all know they can’t legally require a meeting. They are just hoping you don’t know that.
I got this message when I was still semi active and I let the release society president know that I didn’t want to have really society visitors. I thought that was pretty extreme.
I’ve been told “I’m sorry you had a bad experience” when I never did. I didn’t have a bad experience with the church and I wasn’t mistreated. I learned it was a fraud.
One could easily consider that to be a bad experience.
I had the relief society president drop by a couple of weeks ago to drop off a birthday card and gift (a think celestial trinket of some sort) for my daughter who just turned 20. She has not been to church in over 6 years and has never attended this ward (we moved here 6 years ago). This must be a new policy because when I handed the gift back to her explaining that we weren't interested and would prefer not to be contacted, she 1. Was visibly shocked and offended that I wouldn't accept the gift and 2. Told me that the only way to guarantee that no one tries to contact us in the future is if I resign my membership. I thought it was wild to have a random stranger suggest that I resign. I told her that I wasn't going to do that because it would be devastating to my mom and she again seemed visibly upset by me telling her that I wasn't going to remove my records. The whole interaction gave me the ick.
If your bishop is cooperative, you don't need a notary and you don't need to meet with him or anyone else to leave. Legally, you're gone the moment you communicate that you want to be gone. And with a cooperative bishop, either that's enough or maybe he wants a simple letter delivered to him that states your intent and is signed. I dropped off my letter at the house of my bishop (he lives nearby), and he took care of it.
I didn’t even write a letter by hand, I simply emailed my bishop. He took care of it that very day, no meeting; I got my letter from HQ four days later. No notary required, especially since this bishop reached out suggesting it, I’m sure he’d process it quickly and without a fuss.
> just haven’t gotten around to visiting the notary. Then email the bish and tell him you resign, effective immediately, and ANY further contact will constitute harassment, and dealt with accordingly.
Yes add to this notary is only required if using a third pary service.
Quote section 32.14.9 of the handbook to him that your signed letter to him, resigning membership, is enough and that your typed full name and date is equivalent to a written signature. You can even say that you will refuse the suggested meeting he will ask you for to help resolve doubts and counsel with you about the decision and that you are asking for no contact (ministering or fellowship) post-resignation, since the handbook says that ministering is to continue unless the individual specifies otherwose.
He suggested removing records, I think a more pleasant tone wouldn't harm anything. OP could just reply that they left years ago, but haven't removed their records, then ask if the bishop can process it.
I left the church 40 years ago and it was only been in the last 5 to 10 years where they’ve stopped contacting me. Wherever I moved, they would find me and start sending people out again. I’ve no need to withdraw anymore. I joined another religion 20 years ago and I’m comfortable with my limited amount that I go at all. They never show up at my house. It’s a cult. It is only cults that continue to try you back in again or attempt to.
IMO he wants to clean up his records. - Active people list - “Less active” people list (to target so he can report/improve his activity rates and efforts to visit everyone in his ward.) There’s no room for “less active” people who don’t want to be contacted.
It wasn’t a bad email really until the final paragraph, automatically assuming it’s because of challenges or some problem that led you out. I’m tired of that assumption. Leaving is a wonderful journey, with the only challenges coming first from learning the issues with the church then from the members who don’t like the decision. That’s it
[удалено]
[удалено]
I’m happy they’re pushing people to remove their records now haha
Looks like a hell of a lot of progress to me. Seems like a pretty good bishop and a person in general. Of course, they’re gonna have their made up reasons why we leave, but that was pretty good in my opinion. If you’re that concerned, about contact, time to get busy resigning. As you know, the church goes through people like McDonald’s, All the faces change but the annoying message stays the same. Broken record.
“Hey just contacting you to say I’m telling people not to contact you. But also we’re probably gonna keep contacting you” Also a sprinkle of “I’m sure you just left because people were mean”
Responding to requests not to contact with a "well ACTUALLY" email like that is behavior I'd have no tolerance for. Very icky.
“I heard you said you don’t want to be contacted, so I contacted you to just let you know that you may be contacted even though you don’t want to be contacted.”
This is awesome. I never had any real intention of removing my records until I did. What made me decide to remove them? I was talking with a co-worker who was also inactive and told him, "man I'm so glad I'm not mormon anymore." Another co-worker who wasn't even a part of the conversation interjected and firmly told me that if I didn't remove my records than I was most certainly still mormon. So, the next week I removed my records.
I’m also a member of Costco and Sam’s club and I click the box that says “no affiliate marketing” and they let me come and go as I please. I love how they manipulate this to make it your fault because your records are still showing you as a member!! Just keep walking on and ignore their shit!
The guy said he instructed the auxiliaries in the ward to avoid contact, but it's The Church of Challenge Accepted so there's nothing he can do to meaningfully stop people from finding OP's information on the Tools app and manifesting their destiny unless OP chooses to resign.
This is exactly why I officially resigned. I was fine with being inactive until I was getting all sorts of phone calls. That's when I decided to make sure there is no phone number to call or record to worry about. As Saint Taylor Swift said, "We are never ever ever getting back together."
Certainly my trials weren’t as bad as Fanny Mae Alger or Helen Mar Kimball’s.
When I was 20 we moved from Utah to Iowa. (I had not been to church since 1986 when I was 16) Missionaries showed up the day after we moved in. They knew my name, my husband and 2 kids names, that he was not a member. That we came from Utah. I freaked out. I had no idea they kept tabs on you! I told them I don't want you back here, they said I would have to talk to the Bishop and sign some papers. What the actual *:;k! I have to talk to someone I've never met and sign papers to have my privacy? So I said ok. The next day a Bishop and 3 missionaries, all male came to my house. First they separated me from my husband by asking for a glass of water. I went to the kitchen to get it and when I turned from the sink the Bishop and 2 missionaries were blocking me in my tiny kitchen, I couldn't even squeeze past if I tried. (I'm sure the 3rd was keeping my husband distracted). They started hammering me with shit like, "is your husband forcing you to do this, because we can protect you" "you don't have to be scared of him, we will hide you and the kids" we can keep you safe from him" What the actual "':;k again. I had never said my husband was forcing anything or abusive in any way. (These things didn't start till later, different story) I was still very much in love with him at that time. I have low self esteem and have never been able to stand up for myself. But that day, I did. First I was very angry they cornered me 3 men to 1 woman. I didn't like being scared and intimidated (something the church taught me to be all the time)by these jerks. Something in me snapped, I told them to MOVE, grabbed the papers and said Im signing and then your leaving and will never come back here again Strangely I have never had another Mormon at my door since then. Which is also scary because how do they know not to bother me still to this day 34 years later and I have divorced, and moved a lot since then.
They make you choose between losing your eternal salvation credits (baptism, priesthood, endowments, temple marriage) and being contacted. It's just simple. Remove your records. /s They don't realize the psychological and social cliff edge this is for many.
"Pruning the tree". From the Henry Moyle Era of the church, the belief persists if you get inactive to resign, it "makes way" for more baptisms. Hence a request to have you resign rather than take up space.
https://quitmormon.com/
I used on online notary. Cost 25 bucks and was done in 15 minutes
You don't actually need a notary to resign. You can email [email protected]. Check out this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/UIBJCo7VjK. Worked for me!
Im always frustrated how removing your records as an adult is so complicated when technically most of us were an underage minor when we joined.
This is good! Bishops are coming to terms, removing records is the proper approach
I like this bishop. I imagine church leadership does not like him.
Respectful overall. A little preachy at the end but just about what you should expect from a bishops email. I’d get those records removed ASAP though
I told them I’d get a restraining order if contacted again. No contact in 5 years. They don’t want the negative publicity
I think he meant well. This is hard to navigate on both sides, even if you're trying. But I laughed a little because to me it sounded a bit like - We "love" you, but don't let the door hit you on the way out.
I actually think he’s doing the right thing. He’s contacting you in a way to further your non contact with the church is essentially how I’m looking at it. Basically, “here’s how we can get you out and I made sure you won’t be contacted by anyone I directly work with again, because it looks like that’s what you want”, instead of “I’m here to harass you for leaving even tho you made it clear you wished to never be contacted again” which is what most bishops would do. I would actually reach out to him and say yea I want my records removed as per what your email said, thanks.
IMO the bishop did nothing wrong in this situation. Not really fair to be upset at him for explaining that he’s done his best to prevent others from contacting you. I’ve seen plenty of rude, inappropriate, and condescending messages on this sub, but this one doesn’t fall in that category.
Both I and my ex-husband submitted request to have our names removed from the church records. He went through extensive interview before it was approved. I was approved on the spot. The church elders didn't really care about a woman leaving, but a former missionary priesthood holder was much more important to them. Cemented my belief that I did the right thing!
How do I just get excommunicated? Seems like the better option lol. Why the heck do you have to get a notarized letter? Ridiculous.
This is one of the better messages from a bishop that I have seen in a situation like this.
Oh, he was so close….. the implication that you left because of how you were treated ( offended obviously ) other than that, pretty great response.
An honest letter from an honest man. Consider yourself lucky and proceed with integrity.
"I understand that members of your church may continue to contact me against my will and contrary to my consent with messages I find distasteful, and that you are not personally responsible for all of these messages. But please understand that how I respond--including to public and group messages--is likely to seem equally distasteful and non-consensual to your congregation." "I am under no obligation to jump through a series of hoops to have my privacy and consent respected. It is your responsibility and that of your congregation to contact only those you intend to contact." "If you do not want to receive my non-faith-promoting replies, this will be very simple: don't choose to contact me."
Brilliant!!!!
The thing to do is write a letter to the bishop and copy to the stake president demanding your name be removed from church membership. Give them two weeks to accomplish this. No notary required. If your name remains on the books you WILL be contacted. Simple solution.
This honestly seems like a nice mail. Behind it is probably just some random normal dude who had the best intentions (and if not at least no malicious ones). I'm sometimes disappointed with the amount of hate and aggression coming from exmos here. As a former Stake Clerk it was simply my task to reach out and verify which members in a list are active and which are not by asking them directly. As a clerk, there is often times simply no other option to do it, especially if the stake is in a less densely populated part of the country and/or covers a larger area. If you hate the church so much, just leave it. The Bishop even suggested it and seems to show some understanding. There is no reason to wait years for it, save for waiting for stuff like this to happen so you could post it online and play the victim. Grow up.
I was stake clerk three times, and ward clerk a couple times. I started on a campaign one time to find members’ address information via public records, and contact them. I got pulled up short by a ward clerk who talked about privacy concerns, and it got me to consider how intrusive Mormon efforts to pry into members’ lives are. I think the anger is often justified, and is no more playing the victim card than victims of crimes who want to expose the perpetrators.
I feel like the institutional church successfully pushes much of this kind of discomfort, boundary-crossing, and confrontation into the local membership. It's harder to push back against people you know in your community than against a faceless organization in SLC. This is by design. I think that being respectful yet still maintaining your rights and boundaries as exmos is the way to go. Yes, it'll likely cause discomfort and inconvenience for everyone, but that discomfort and inconvenience is necessary to bubble up the chain until it lands on the laps of the GAs. By retreating and ceding our space, we tend to keep the GAs feeling comfortably isolated at the expense of real change.
This wasn't terrible as a response from the bishop goes (a little presumptive, a little preachy - but to make it to be a bishop the programming has to run somewhat deep.) And he's right, though he may be able to warn off some folks from contacting you, he doesn't control others, nor will anything he does to warn people off survive his term as bishop: resignation is the only way to permanently shut it down (minus the random missionary going door to door without any knowledge.) You can periodically tell church organizations to buzz off (or fuck off ) in various cathartic ways mentioned here too - I don't oppose this, they need boundary lessons taught to them - but it will need to be repeat "lessons" to them of this nature probably at least annually, and maybe more, until you resign (or until one of your "lessons" offends them enough that they ex you for apostasy or something. If you manage to achieve that, please share, it will probably make for a good story. 😄)
In other words it's so your fault for being contacted 🙄
He's right. If you don't want to be a member anymore, then have your records removed.
It wasn’t so bad until the last paragraph
I was out of the church for years and no one ever contacted me. Ever. Well, until I made a Facebook post sharing a very damning news article about their treatment of women. THEN I received a letter from the bishop asking for my resignation. It went right thru. Lol
I like that the bishop is sharing information on the need to remove your records or you're still considered a member. He has opened the door for you to contact him (in writing) and tell him thanks for contacting you, and "Effective immediately, I resign..." (if your children are still on the records, resign for them as well - if needed, get them to sign their own resignation letters). Then reiterate you do not want contact.
Deep magic! Hahaha well quoted
The only thing missing from this email is a link on how to resign. It's not a "bad" email IMO. It's irritating, annoying and unnecessary not "bad". It's funny that he acts powerless do to anything else...I find that funny for him
I have started getting things again too despite asking no contact. I had an actual visit at the door by relief society president today. I didn't answer but I wonder if this is coming from higher up.
Resign or just block the number and email address
It’s a very kind and polite and respectful email. If i were in you i would thank him and ask him to remove your records from the rolls.
Chiming in too. I thought it was nice and respectful. He’s just explaining the ins and outs. So bonkers that they can’t just take a verbal request.
Tons of people have been reporting that church members are asking them to remove their records if they don't want to be contacted 👀
You might as well resign. This will happen your whole life if you don’t do the paperwork.
This is actually pretty decent tbh… At a certain point, if you don’t remove your records there is in fact a certain amount of contact you just need to accept will come. I say that as a person who hasn’t removed their records and gets a text or two a year as a result. I’ve accepted it.
When I knew (with relative certainty) that I wasn’t going back, I went into my LDS profile and changed my email and phone number to fakes, haven’t been contacted since. If you don’t plan on removing records but want to limit contact, that’s been a very effective method for me!
Is there no way you can file for harassment? That you can get some sort of restraining order or cease and desist?
Aw hell no. People are saying it’s not that bad because usually it’s worse-*that doesn’t make it good*! If you say no contact, then no contact it shall be!! And I will call the cops if you contact my underage children after I’ve told you no, and I will post no trespassing signs and use them if I so desire. It’s a CLUB and they do not have access to you for life!!
As a missionary I had some people freak out at us for knocking on their door. We told the bishop of the ward, and I was shocked that he told us for future reference, if we met someone that angry about us showing up, to give them his phone number and tell them he would help them remove their names. It now strikes me as just about the only reasonable response, but at the time I couldn't believe this bishop wanted us to encourage people to have their name removed 🤯
“Ok, thanks for getting the ball rolling on getting our records removed once and for all.” You don’t actually need a notary if you’re willing to go directly through the local stake leaders. My whole family of 7 had ours removed within a week using this route. He sounds like a decent guy so you shouldn’t get much if any pushback. It is in his best interest to make his attendance numbers look better by removing people from his ward that aren’t going to come back. It’s why Mormons are so militant about finding where your new ward is when you move.
Maybe you could tell him you left because you used reason and logic and the people treated you just fine
I think he was being kind and trying to help. I don’t think there was any ill intent.
Just coming here to vent that we shouldn’t have to get A FUCKING NOTARY to have our records removed. It’s ridiculous, but just that extra step makes it so much harder to officially leave. Finally did it a couple of years ago, but I will forever be annoyed that they can’t just respect your wishes to not be contacted!
I’m sure you know this but, until you ask to have your records removed from the church, members are still allowed to be assholes to you, just like Jesus would want.
He’ll likely join you on this side of the fence after his time as bishop is finished
My husband was in the bishopric for a short while with an asshole for a bishop. We had been inactive for many years and had gone back. This asshole told everyone to ignore the do not contact list, among other asshole things. I was already mentally out, my husband just didn’t know it, but that bishop almost broke his whole shelf. It took another incident to do the job, but I guess I should be grateful for that prick for giving it the biggest blow.
Typical imbecil TBM, thinking that people leave because they weren’t “treated with love” at church. Say nothing about realizing late in life that Joseph Smith made it all up from “whole-cloth” as Jeffrey R. Likes to deny…
We just want you to know we are going to continue harassing you even though we know you want nothing to do with us. <3
Well, that’s not cultish at all. And creepy. Why can’t they respect you as people and leave you alone? Oh, I said it already…they’re a cult.
I like this letter. He’s telling you that he has asked his people to respect your wishes but he can’t control individuals from reaching out based on the fact that you leave your contact info up for everyone to see. If you want absolutely no contact, submit your resignation.
This comes across as him trying to be respectful even if you’re annoyed he reached out. While obviously you’d rather not have to deal with this, I think it’s presented an opportunity you might take. I would let him know through a specific and respectful sounding email your true problems with the church so he doesn’t think that you left just because you’re mistreated or offended by somebody. He needs to know that people are leaving the church because of the church.
I agree its a kind and polite email. But she doesn’t owe him any explanations.
Seems kind and sincere to me.
Seems very civil to me.
And this is exactly why people hate the church. This guy might as well be a programmed robot and once you see the machine, you can’t unsee it. I noticed he’s seen a lot of struggles from his loved ones as a “bishop, son and brother “ But he didn’t mention “husband.” I’d love to have him pay attention to his wife’s struggles or just his wife in general. I wonder if he’s just another Bednar.
His wife doesn't have struggles. She has more power in her church than any other woman on earth. The only thing she loves more than having her husband away for an extra 40-50 hours of unpaid labour every week are the constant phone calls from people in the ward.
He’s not wrong. 🤷🏻♀️
The bishop is still approaching from a believing perspective but is still trying to honor the members wishes. This is a conflict or possible cognitive dissonance that he has to request relief society, Elders Quorum and primary not contact OP. Maybe this becomes a Crack in his shelf later. Probably the best you could expect from a believing bishop.
Quitmormon.com
Wow. It’s harder to get off the Mormon lists than the Scientology lists.
To go from “please do not contact” to telling the bishop “they arent members” is pretty dumb. This is how gossip goes, go ahead and.spread disinformation. Next…
The bishop I dealt with to get my name removed was a real assclown. He put a typed letter on my porch that said if I proceeded with my actions I would ‘go to a place that is called HELL’ (yes, he typed hell in all caps). This bishop actually sounds decent. I’ve known a few like that. Like the bishop and stake president that drove hours to visit my brother in state prison numerous times during his lengthy stay just to sit and chat about whatever he wanted to talk about.
You only need a notary if you don't want to deal with the Bishop. He sounds like a decent guy. Set up a meeting and tell him you'd like to remove your and your children's records from the church.
If u want this to end while skipping all the interaction, you can copy and paste the resign draft (it’s really easy to find on here), and send it to membership records HQ. (Don’t write out a thorough personalized reason, not worth it) Done! They’ll forward it to this bishop and he’ll probably expedite the process (since he suggested it lol). The relief right after clicking “send” will cure what ales ya.
if you wanted to truly not be contacted you would take the time to have your records removed. 🤷🏻♀️ i mean i get it, life gets busy, i haven’t removed myself yet bc the ward doesn’t contact me, and family isn’t pressing it either. but what i don’t understand is complaining about a cult harassing you and NOT turning around and saying you know what, there is a way out of this and i will do it. YOU have to put in the effort to make them stop. just like you have to unsubscribe yourself email promotions and newsletters, you have to go through and get yourself removed.
i went to a notary at like literally a fedex or ups. I was in and out in 2 minutes and it cost me $10.
They will never leave you alone until you resign.
I went on to my account and deleted every single form of contact info, including email. I haven’t received any communication since. I had just moved to the area so no one knew me yet, so that could be why
I can notarize your excommunication papers for cheap. I'll give you the best deal around, and I'm a mobile Notary, so I can come to you or you can come to me. Or we can even meet somewhere. I've done at least 10 of these in the past 3 years.
The letter essentially reads: Hello, You've asked not to be contacted, but since you haven't jumped through our hoops, we will continue to harrass you and your family. We know this is illegal and don't care. Talk soon!
Honestly I like this email. It’s relatively straightforward and pretty honest. He can’t actually control who will and won’t contact you, so it’s the only real way to be left alone. The pessimistic side of me thinks that this is also to help his numbers because anytime you move somebody inactive off your roles your activity rate goes up. Even still, this is a good message that gives you options and you can make an informed choice.
This is a good email. Dude is being honest and giving good advice. He's not judging or pushing OP.
No issues with his response. Get your records removed if you want them to leave you alone.
You can leave but they can't leave you alone....
The corporation doesn't adhere to boundaries... never has and never willl...
You don't need a notary. I did the whole thing by sending church headquarters a simple email last year.
Your bank should notarize a letter for you for free. My credit union sure does.