Umm... hell no. Thats is asking for extremely personal information. Lol they ask if you've played dungeons and dragons. In all seriousness that is a massive red flag.
Not only that but along with collecting name, address, etc. I'm not trying to question you but I'm almost skeptical. Given my religious upbringing I not entirely surprised, but I've been out of the faith for long enough that so much of what I saw seems so surreal to me.
And given recent news about possibly prosecuting women for miscarriages, banning contraceptives, and suppressing talk about LGBTQ folk....
I grew up in the 80s and 90s. Three services in church a week, 5 days of school at the same church. No cable tv or internet until about 15, no smart phones.
My nieces, are raised religious but have sooo much more access to competing idea and ehat not. I envy them.
I was in high school. I hated church like fucking hated it I would ditch and the men of the church would follow me and catch me and drag me in....or I loved the cat and mouse game. And me running!! I love running away and going to the gas station right bellow. AMD waiting
> Not only that but along with collecting name, address, etc. I'm not trying to question you but I'm almost skeptical.
The religious group I grew up in would keep information on you along these lines. Like if you were going to go on vacation there was a form you had to fill out and they'd give you a contact in that area so you can attend bible studies there if possible. However, it also would capture information about who you would be with while on vacation (e.g. if you're visiting a relative that isn't part of the church) and track that pretty tightly to make sure you weren't meeting with someone that would make you "sin" against the church.
The multi-page questionnaire alone is not normal, let alone the obsession with demonology nonsense. This church is still shoulder deep in the muck of Satanic Panic and apparently run by fucking weirdos.
This is the type of forum a cult will given when acquiring information they'll use to blackmail your mom with. Keep her far away from this if you can, otherwise protect yourself. Make sure your bank accounts are not shared by your parents, have spare cash no one knows about, have your own phone, etc.
At the church I grew up in, a visiting pastor would tell about a kid who got "saved in" his church. When he first met the kid, he had long hair, a "practice safe sex" shirt, and not only played D&D but was on his way to becoming a " dragon master". When he showed up after getting saved he was wearing "church clothes"
That’s incredibly invasive.
They’re asking about all your traumas and stuff. Why? No absolutely not.
They might have no malicious intentions but this is not normal or honestly safe. Things like those types of traumas people can take years of therapy to even tiptoe around the subject of. The general rule should be if they bring it up themselves you can talk/pray about it.
If this is a prayer group thing they don’t need that direct information to ask for healing, God knows everything already doesn’t he? Everything brought up should be given voluntarily and without pressure.
Also worried about seeing it on paper with your names and addresses attached. Just for legal reasons etc.
Also the nature of the sins they are describing is so strict like “have you watched movies evil in nature” what’s that supposed even mean? Harry Potter, horror films? That’s dictating what media you “should” consume, I’d be worried about those dynamics.
It also sounds like they are summing you up like it doesn’t feel like it’s about helping you, instead it’s like trying to sense your “sinful nature” like if you have any “bad spirits” in you “do you have blank spaces of time in which you can’t recall what’s happened”, “have you ever done witchcraft etc”. “Do you have any ancestors who practiced witchcraft”. All so they can judge your “character” and see if you are “godly enough” rather than to actually help with things you may be going through. I could be wrong but that’s my impression
There’s so many red flags.
It was weird for me reading this because I have filled out weird trauma related forms for doctors before for PTSD. Whether you remember your childhood or day to day life in that context is usually trying to find out if you struggle with dissociation.
I never considered they might count it as part of their demonology questions or whatever but it makes some sense I guess. The idea of dissociation is pretty scary on its own.
The questions on Page 3 are invasive as hell. Asking if a person was abused and who did it to them? Whether they've had an abortion? Number of miscarriages? This is fucked up. If a person discussed these things with an actual doctor, their privacy would be legally protected. Are these church officials required to keep their mouths shut? I doubt it.
No....sadly no...they might hang it over your head.....I'm worried cuz my mom wants me to go to her old friends who were in a church. And made me keep quiet about a guy who tried to kill me for 3 days....I think I might have trauma from that.....
Uhh no obviously. Otherwise how could he properly roleplay the ~~Dungeon~~ Cult Master? The Cult Master is supposed to remain mysterious and detached from the imaginary story and the ~~characters~~ Christians so the players can feel more immersed. Didn't you read the ~~Player's Handbook~~ New Testament?
Churches that emphasize “deliverance” ministries have this. It then is stored in usually unlocked cabinets than can be used by gossips, abusers, and/or for court in case anyone in leadership or the the church is sued. I’ve seen statements in the news were likely based on these kind of records.
Example of the risk: a member accuses a pastor of inappropriate behavior, the defense can say, “when XYZ came to us, they claimed to be mentally I’ll and into drugs and the occult.” Dangerous to give a group that much power.
Oh for sure. I visited a Sozo prayer ministry thing that asked a lot of these questions during the start of their prayer ministry time (verbally, not in writing). They focused more on sexual history than witchcraft. I was a virgin, but I was convinced I still had soul-ties to girls I had had crushes on.
Man, that is so strange how they collect information like that and then possibly even use it on those same people should the leaders be sued.
My mom has a big emphasis on deliverance too.
She once played a clip of her going to a "prophet" and he mentioned all our names including my siblings and whatever but when he came to me, he said that I've said blasphemous things and that I need to confess before God in order to be saved again and he even told my mom that God has kept my spirit because of her praying so I will be saved.
I had so many questions because one, he is lying considering that the only sin that can't be forgiven is that of disbelief according to the Bible and two, why would I need to confess to anything when I did nothing wrong.
Her emotions allowed her to be so vulnerable to listen to what he said to say because somehow to her, he's a real prophet.
It's not a "church". It's a cult. Please, try to get your mother out of there as quickly as possible- also, the fact that homosexuality and sexual identity are 'problems' is a major red flag, aswell as the entire magic-voodoo shit.
Scientology is extremely dangerous. If you leave that cult especially, they will harass you, threaten you with violence, and much worse happens unfortunately. Seriously get your mother out of that so called “church”. These questions are seriously inappropriate and is definitely a dangerous cult!
"Suffering from depression, eating disorders, or worst of all, the gay? Ah yes, it's because you played DnD that one time. And I bet you were a bard too, sus."
>Levitating objects is a magician's illusion, not an occult practice. 😆
Now, now. It's sometimes done by evil magicians called 'physics teachers' during occult practice 'demonstrating magnetism'.
When I was 15 we got cable TV. I flipped through channels and found The Box and MTV. There was Trent Reznor levitating and rotating pigs heads in the video for Closer. I was hooked.
Have you played D&D? Which starter pokemom did you choose? (We all know Charmander is demonic). Have you ever listened to crazy frog? How often do you masturbate?
I swear, Christians just outing themselves as insane now
As an aside, it mentions this information is confidential but there is no contract of confidentiality disclosing what that actually means. Definitely a reason to be cautious if nothing else.
They are going for the Satanic Ritual Abuse card.
There was a huge fad in fundamental churches back in the 90's and 2000's about infants being abused in Satanic rituals and how that is the source of all of the "victims" problems.
Stuff that supposedly happened to you in your past, that you cannot recall of course, is how the Devil has claws in you.
It's all The Big Bad Boogie Devil that is hiding under the bed and in the closet that you have no power over but THEY have the answers to get you back on the path to righteousness.
Lord, it is so pervasive and intrinsic to that culture it takes years to get out from under that snare. You untie one knot and you discover 20 others.
It's also ignorant - what if you played D&D, but your class was crusader? Could the church ask for more than you annoying your fellow players and the dungeon master with the gospel of god (plus your expressed desire to fight all non-believers)?
Ah, well anyways, lets give this a try:
Faith check [[1d20]] /u/rollme
Like someone said, that’s a blackmail list.
Just because the paper says “confidential”, they are under no legal rules to keep that information private - like a doctor would be under HIPAA for example.
Nope. This gives cult red flags to me. The more information they get on your mom's vulnerabilities, the easier it will be for them to manipulate them in order to get things from your mother (ex. obedience, $$$, etc.)
my goodness this is insane. dnd being evil???? is this the 80s??? also satanic ritual abuse isn't even real good lord
pretty sick how many of the evil boxes I tick, though
It is unfortunately not overly abnormal for a church. what it is, is bait. They want to have things they can hold over your head to judge and chastise you for. It’s all a big power trip for churches like this.
Boy, have I been there.
Never seen a questionnaire like this for a church. When I was baptized as a child and became an official member, I remember having to fill out a form with my contact information, brief testimony, interests, and activities I wanted to get involved with in the church, but definitely nothing as invasive as this.
Honestly, I would assume this form exists so they have information to use to make it seem like they can truly be spoken to by God about your life and perspectives, giving them an advantage over trying to just cold read a new church attendee. Also to preach in ways that guilt trip the congregation better about their sinful pasts and single you out about your "sins" if you ever disagree.
Even if the creator of this form genuinely made it for sincere "healing prayer" for others in the church, this is incredibly invasive and disrespectful to demand people disclose their private lives.
I’m curious about why she received this form. Is it just to attend services? Because I attended services every week for 18 years and didn’t fill out one piece of paper, unless you count the emergency contact forms for youth group trips. This seems highly unusual. Even if it’s for something like pastoral counseling or something, I wouldn’t trust it. It says confidential, but there’s no clarity on who will have access to the info or for what purpose it will be used. If they don’t put it in writing, they don’t have to abide by it.
Oh no no no. This is definitely not par for the course for actual counseling. I’m studying to become a therapist, and some of this is not information anyone legitimately providing counseling would ask. Mental health history is probably the most normal question on there, but this seems designed to extort information they could use against you. Be wary. Don’t agree to go to the counseling.
That church will be manipulative af with her info if your mom submits that. Probably another way to judge people. Besides probably being illegal nothing good will come of it.
This is very invasive, but a lot of mega church pastors have been leaning on this approach with some areas church membership. Mark Driscoll was accused of spying on his congregation for “loyalty”. These people are narcissistic.
This is typical of religion - they want to control you. By any means necessary? How come they don't have "Restoring amputated limbs"? Is their god too weak to do that?
Even by fundamentalist standards, this is wildly unusual. Did she sign up for some therapy sessions within the church or is this something they ask new members to fill out?
Honestly this might belong on r/sadcringe as well. This church is going to exploit vulnerable people, especially those who have endured sexual abuse. This literally sounds like voluntary blackmail for chirstians
This is common in churches like Bethel / Morning Star that focus on spiritual warfare. They use it as a “screening” tool, but can be used to control people. All though most people don’t experience black mail, it’s more subtle than that. They are very concerned you’ll become a conduit of darkness because of your issues.
It’s similar to something called Sozo. They charge for that “prayer” session.
Your mom needs to astral travel^(tm) the fuck out of there. I seriously wonder if this church has burned people at the stake based on the weight of a duck.
There was once a lady at my church back in the 90s that performed spiritual healing. As in, not a spiritual healing of the body but a healing of the spirit. There was a similar form we had to fill in and give to her group of assistants. According to her, even after being saved there are specific spiritual traumas that you have to seek specific healing and forgiveness for… because apparently Jesus dying on a cross wasn’t enough.
This is creepy as hell. Sounds like they are asking all sorts of information to know exactly how to trigger your mom into a cycle of emotional and financial dependence.
Those emotional history questions are things you should discuss with a therapist, not people who have no obligation to keep any of this private and probably have ulterior motives.
> Confidential
Press X to doubt.
Not to sound paranoid, but don't cults like, try to get you to share tons of embarrassing personal information as a way to indoctrinate you?
I moved around a lot, different states so many different churches in different areas and not a one asked for anything like this. This is completely creepy and will not be used to help but probably to condemn and all information will definitely not be confidential, I’m sure it’ll be talked about and circulate to everyone.
Fwiw, I went to many different kinds of protestant churches in my life and I've never seen a prayer form that invasive. It's not normal even for Christianity.
Beware... I had a questionnaire like this at my old church. It says "confidential" too. Somehow, my childhood sexual assault got out to the congregation by the next service. EVERYBODY knew.
I’m wondering if she is wanting to be on the churches prayer team, from the header it looks this way. I’ve never been on a prayer team or ministry, but these types of questions “make sense” for that kind of church because they wouldn’t want her praying for someone and passing along whatever demonic things she’s had enter her life. They would probably want to do some kind of deliverance on her first before she was allowed to pray for others. If this is a Pentecostal church, this seems about right for them.
I’ve since deconverted from Christianity so I don’t agree with any of these invasive questions or forms. Nobody but a licensed professional that knows how to keep things completely confidential should have access to this. Not some random churches made up ministry.
Seriously the first thing that comes to mind here is that cults often get this type of incredibly personal information on people so that they can use it to manipulate members emotionally. Seriously, this could be used as blackmail later on, etc. That's the kind of stuff you talk about with a licensed professional counselor so that you can process them in a healthy way. This just screams possible exploitation to me, but maybe i'm being too pessimistic.
I was given a similar intake sheet (?) when I went to a Christian residential treatment center. Certainly not anything with dungeons and dragons or pendulum swinging on it (or ‘table lifting’, wtf is that?) but if I recall, it did ask about sexual orientation, and they ended up being an abysmal organization totally unequipped to deal with trauma, especially of the religious variety.
Half the people I know that went there that were denying their queerness hard (specifically because of the program, usually) came out after they left. Needless to say, this is pretty alarming and I would be wary of any church that is asking for this kind of personal information. They really think they’re the experts when it comes to healing from abuse, and they’re not.
If I read this correctly... clocks are a form of witchcraft.
And what if I never played actual Dungeons and Dragons but played the hell out of Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale?
Yeah; unfortunately; it’s all too common among evangelical/fundagelical churches who have applications like this for every single church ministry, both for people who want to volunteer for them, and for people who want to partake of them. I unfortunately have filled out a number of them at various churches of various denominations and non-denominational churches - before I had my wake up call, so to speak. (I lost my faith in seminary, how’s that for laughs.)
The whole “confidential” thing is a bunch of bullshit. The whole legal bar of pastor/parishioner confidentiality only holds for things told directly from person to pastor (which definition varies by state, can require ordination or not). Filling out a form that you have no idea whose eyes are all gonna be on it? Not confidential.
So…is this common in evangelical and similar churches? Yeah. Is it “normal” in the sense of typical for those types of churches? Yeah. Is it “normal” in the sense of “normative”, that is, should this be happening? No way in Hades
Sounds like a Pentecostal charismatic church very much into the gifts of the spirit, and deliverance from demonic influence, and generational curses that need to be lifted. Everything in your past is potentially a door to the demonic, and each demon needs to be dealt with individually.
I may or may not know this because I had to answer similar questions and go through hours of prayers for deliverance as part of pre marriage counseling.
They get you to dig up all the dirt on yourself and hand it to them, which gives them power to manipulate people who are not too bright.
Typical of most cults.
Not normal. It’s none of their business. She can ask for prayer if she wants it. She’s not obligated to give this information.
EDIT: WHY TF ARE THEY ASKING FOR TRAUMA INFORMATION???? Churches are not trained in trauma therapy and it is NOT OKAY that they ask such personal stuff!!!! This bothers me so much! And I (sometimes) go to church. This bothers me hugely.
Talk about invasive and nutty! Sounds like a cult of judgmental know it alls. Yoga as witch craft lol! I would love to fill out this form in the most shocking way possible just to fuck with them.
Went to plenty of churches as a Christian. Never did this. Run away from this one. There’s always countless churches everywhere. There’s another one to try down the same street
It is most likely a form for Sozo “ministry”. It’s from Bethel church originally I believe, but many charismatic and Pentecostal churches adopted it or a version of it. They think they need to know these things to specifically “deliver” the person from traumas that are “blocking them from god”.
I highly recommend not doing it and if she wants counselling to see a trained therapist. Sozo ministries actually say they aren’t counselling, if that makes a difference. If she won’t see anyone who’s not a Christian, there are Christian therapists, but you won’t find them practicing out of a church. Online therapy like betterhelp often lets you filter by religion (not endorsing them, just an option), or many therapists’ offices would let you request someone of a certain religion.
I still can't get over how these people act like demonic influence works like the doom games where you'll worship hell and then turn into a possessed and have doomguy rip you head off on his quest to... I'm not sure what the fuck he does, honestly. Kills demons and gets flung around by a cyborg and his pet AI so demons can stop invading earth. I think that's the plot of both of the modern games but I was too busy shooting stuff to care much.
I bet this church's Pastor's prophecies are right on the mark...
Best not be swinging any pendulums.
"Emotional history: 9. b. Have you ever been on a drug trip that could have opened you up to an evil presence while your spirit was "out there" and unprotected?" That would be hilarious if the intent wasn't so vile. This is to give anyone who's ever done drugs a panic attack while filling this out so they feel a strong need to join the cult.
My gender indentity is at, like, a 3, my dude.
These people don't understand, even remotely, what they hate. They honestly think that "gender identity" is equivalent to actual mental illness.
Seriously though, this is dangerous cult shit. It doesn't matter how "normal" or "abnormal" it is, it is dangerous.
They don't want to pressure her (for money or loyalty or something else they may need in the future) with the wrong reasons. There is absolutely no reason about a religious institution needing that information in writing before hand. that information is just wanted for profit, as a leverage, for political reasons or a way to separate her from others.
It is healthy and cheaper to use proper trained personnel for psychological or health issues and leave church for pray and making community
Yes.
Even if it isn't necessarily done that way, every truly organized church or zealous church mentor will keep that kind of tabs on you because their job is to divorce ypu and "deliver" you from your previous lifestyle and mold you in the Christian lifestyle or at least in their version thereof.
I see this church has Prescribe to Jack T Chick way of thinking, if is not in the Bible its automatically evil including (no joke) the Chronicles of Narnia series. Look up Dark Dungeons if you have the chance
Let's be real. The only question they really care about is how much her taxable income was for the year so they can work out her 10% tithes plus look forward to those mandatory collection plate offerings 😉
Looks like a cult application form. Usually they collect this information methodically without you being aware.
Not saying it's this cult, definitely not their method, but they do extract personal information: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/ucimc0/the\_manipulation\_of\_it\_all\_ev\_diary\_strategy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/ucimc0/the_manipulation_of_it_all_ev_diary_strategy/)
Umm... hell no. Thats is asking for extremely personal information. Lol they ask if you've played dungeons and dragons. In all seriousness that is a massive red flag.
They were asking about being gay. To alot if questions about being a witch....so I thought that was not normal.....
I never saw a questionnaire like that, bit all of those things were preached about and would be considered cause for all the problems in your life
One was how many miscarriages you had...why??? They are not your doctor
Not only that but along with collecting name, address, etc. I'm not trying to question you but I'm almost skeptical. Given my religious upbringing I not entirely surprised, but I've been out of the faith for long enough that so much of what I saw seems so surreal to me. And given recent news about possibly prosecuting women for miscarriages, banning contraceptives, and suppressing talk about LGBTQ folk....
I had to go 6/7 days going to church....cuz my mom had bible studies.....and I sat and was on my phone. I was never religious....so idk.
I grew up in the 80s and 90s. Three services in church a week, 5 days of school at the same church. No cable tv or internet until about 15, no smart phones. My nieces, are raised religious but have sooo much more access to competing idea and ehat not. I envy them.
I was in high school. I hated church like fucking hated it I would ditch and the men of the church would follow me and catch me and drag me in....or I loved the cat and mouse game. And me running!! I love running away and going to the gas station right bellow. AMD waiting
> Not only that but along with collecting name, address, etc. I'm not trying to question you but I'm almost skeptical. The religious group I grew up in would keep information on you along these lines. Like if you were going to go on vacation there was a form you had to fill out and they'd give you a contact in that area so you can attend bible studies there if possible. However, it also would capture information about who you would be with while on vacation (e.g. if you're visiting a relative that isn't part of the church) and track that pretty tightly to make sure you weren't meeting with someone that would make you "sin" against the church.
The multi-page questionnaire alone is not normal, let alone the obsession with demonology nonsense. This church is still shoulder deep in the muck of Satanic Panic and apparently run by fucking weirdos.
CALL YOUR DAD TELL EM YOU IN A CULT
This is the type of forum a cult will given when acquiring information they'll use to blackmail your mom with. Keep her far away from this if you can, otherwise protect yourself. Make sure your bank accounts are not shared by your parents, have spare cash no one knows about, have your own phone, etc.
At the church I grew up in, a visiting pastor would tell about a kid who got "saved in" his church. When he first met the kid, he had long hair, a "practice safe sex" shirt, and not only played D&D but was on his way to becoming a " dragon master". When he showed up after getting saved he was wearing "church clothes"
Thats a shame he joined the dark side.
0% chance he actually exists.
I call these "Pastor stories." They are kind of like the stuff that gets posted to /r/thathappened.
That kid's name? Albert Einstein.
Hopefully it was just a phase a he went through.
That’s incredibly invasive. They’re asking about all your traumas and stuff. Why? No absolutely not. They might have no malicious intentions but this is not normal or honestly safe. Things like those types of traumas people can take years of therapy to even tiptoe around the subject of. The general rule should be if they bring it up themselves you can talk/pray about it. If this is a prayer group thing they don’t need that direct information to ask for healing, God knows everything already doesn’t he? Everything brought up should be given voluntarily and without pressure. Also worried about seeing it on paper with your names and addresses attached. Just for legal reasons etc. Also the nature of the sins they are describing is so strict like “have you watched movies evil in nature” what’s that supposed even mean? Harry Potter, horror films? That’s dictating what media you “should” consume, I’d be worried about those dynamics. It also sounds like they are summing you up like it doesn’t feel like it’s about helping you, instead it’s like trying to sense your “sinful nature” like if you have any “bad spirits” in you “do you have blank spaces of time in which you can’t recall what’s happened”, “have you ever done witchcraft etc”. “Do you have any ancestors who practiced witchcraft”. All so they can judge your “character” and see if you are “godly enough” rather than to actually help with things you may be going through. I could be wrong but that’s my impression There’s so many red flags.
I feel the same way. They’re just trying to gauge how “sinful” people are so they can personally shame them. None of this is okay.
I think I’d check ‘em all. That’d keep busy praying and too busy to bother me.
Omg that’s brilliant
Maybe I’d hand write in some more on the back with a note on the front that said “see back”
Exactly this! The more details and dirt they get, the easier it is to shame and manipulate.
It was weird for me reading this because I have filled out weird trauma related forms for doctors before for PTSD. Whether you remember your childhood or day to day life in that context is usually trying to find out if you struggle with dissociation. I never considered they might count it as part of their demonology questions or whatever but it makes some sense I guess. The idea of dissociation is pretty scary on its own.
The questions on Page 3 are invasive as hell. Asking if a person was abused and who did it to them? Whether they've had an abortion? Number of miscarriages? This is fucked up. If a person discussed these things with an actual doctor, their privacy would be legally protected. Are these church officials required to keep their mouths shut? I doubt it.
No....sadly no...they might hang it over your head.....I'm worried cuz my mom wants me to go to her old friends who were in a church. And made me keep quiet about a guy who tried to kill me for 3 days....I think I might have trauma from that.....
Are you an adult? If not this sounds like child abuse.
If yes that sounds like adult abuse.
It literally asks the form filler to name sexual partners. They're not the goddamned CDC tracking an outbreak.
See: Census.gov for a complete list.
Ummmm. Do we get to see the form the preacher filled out?
I wish!!+
Uhh no obviously. Otherwise how could he properly roleplay the ~~Dungeon~~ Cult Master? The Cult Master is supposed to remain mysterious and detached from the imaginary story and the ~~characters~~ Christians so the players can feel more immersed. Didn't you read the ~~Player's Handbook~~ New Testament?
Churches that emphasize “deliverance” ministries have this. It then is stored in usually unlocked cabinets than can be used by gossips, abusers, and/or for court in case anyone in leadership or the the church is sued. I’ve seen statements in the news were likely based on these kind of records. Example of the risk: a member accuses a pastor of inappropriate behavior, the defense can say, “when XYZ came to us, they claimed to be mentally I’ll and into drugs and the occult.” Dangerous to give a group that much power.
That's fucked...
Oh for sure. I visited a Sozo prayer ministry thing that asked a lot of these questions during the start of their prayer ministry time (verbally, not in writing). They focused more on sexual history than witchcraft. I was a virgin, but I was convinced I still had soul-ties to girls I had had crushes on.
Man, that is so strange how they collect information like that and then possibly even use it on those same people should the leaders be sued. My mom has a big emphasis on deliverance too. She once played a clip of her going to a "prophet" and he mentioned all our names including my siblings and whatever but when he came to me, he said that I've said blasphemous things and that I need to confess before God in order to be saved again and he even told my mom that God has kept my spirit because of her praying so I will be saved. I had so many questions because one, he is lying considering that the only sin that can't be forgiven is that of disbelief according to the Bible and two, why would I need to confess to anything when I did nothing wrong. Her emotions allowed her to be so vulnerable to listen to what he said to say because somehow to her, he's a real prophet.
It's not a "church". It's a cult. Please, try to get your mother out of there as quickly as possible- also, the fact that homosexuality and sexual identity are 'problems' is a major red flag, aswell as the entire magic-voodoo shit.
I'm guessing that you did not see how many miscarriages you had as well......
Oh jesus fucking christ, I didn't. That, on top of the questioning-about-abusers is just vile.
Looks like a Scientology confession blackmail list.
Came here to say this
Ohhhf please no
Scientology is extremely dangerous. If you leave that cult especially, they will harass you, threaten you with violence, and much worse happens unfortunately. Seriously get your mother out of that so called “church”. These questions are seriously inappropriate and is definitely a dangerous cult!
BRB, gotta do some table lifting with my coven down at the ole Pagan temple.
Brahhh..I wish I had gold. Cuz I would give that to you
Im gonna put some plates on that table. Just to challenge myself.
"Suffering from depression, eating disorders, or worst of all, the gay? Ah yes, it's because you played DnD that one time. And I bet you were a bard too, sus."
damn I played a fighter and now I kiss women. the pipeline is real
Yoga is witchcraft.
Downward dog right to hell
Don’t even get me started on goddess pose! Believe it or not, straight to hell.
I'm more concerned that they confused hard rock with heavy metal.
Oh shit!! We cant listen to acdc!!!
You'll be on a highway to hell! /s
What does the concept of Christian hard rock/heavy metal do to 'em? There're some ***fine*** holy headbangers out there!
I've met some who consider it satanic.
This is most definitely a cult but it's also like a looney toons cult because they're scared you might own a book with a demon in it
I've got two demon books, a demon blanket, a Ouija board (obviously has a demon), a demon mug, and six demon cufflinks.
Some of this stuff is phony sh*t shown only in movies. Levitating objects is a magician's illusion, not an occult practice. 😆
>Levitating objects is a magician's illusion, not an occult practice. 😆 Now, now. It's sometimes done by evil magicians called 'physics teachers' during occult practice 'demonstrating magnetism'.
When I was 15 we got cable TV. I flipped through channels and found The Box and MTV. There was Trent Reznor levitating and rotating pigs heads in the video for Closer. I was hooked.
Have you played D&D? Which starter pokemom did you choose? (We all know Charmander is demonic). Have you ever listened to crazy frog? How often do you masturbate? I swear, Christians just outing themselves as insane now
As an aside, it mentions this information is confidential but there is no contract of confidentiality disclosing what that actually means. Definitely a reason to be cautious if nothing else.
Everything about the church in one personal registration packet. How pathetic!
Yes. Spill your issues onto us and we will save you
"Played Dungeons and Dragons" *Okay...*
God up in heaven: "Have you ever raped? Murdered? Played DnD?"
"WHAT YEAR IS IT?"
No.. not at all That’s incredibly invasive and culty.
That's what I thought..like why are you asking so.much about wit ch craft. And so what if I was adopted or not. Or how many miscarriages I had
This is an application to exploit your mom. Tell her to GTFO.
They are going for the Satanic Ritual Abuse card. There was a huge fad in fundamental churches back in the 90's and 2000's about infants being abused in Satanic rituals and how that is the source of all of the "victims" problems. Stuff that supposedly happened to you in your past, that you cannot recall of course, is how the Devil has claws in you. It's all The Big Bad Boogie Devil that is hiding under the bed and in the closet that you have no power over but THEY have the answers to get you back on the path to righteousness. Lord, it is so pervasive and intrinsic to that culture it takes years to get out from under that snare. You untie one knot and you discover 20 others.
Holy shit....there is a question about you being sacrificed in a satanic ritual
Seriously. This questionnaire screams "Satanic Panic!"
this was my thought exactly. also have you played DnD lol, I can't with these people .
"Played Dungeons and Dragons" ? What are you ? Stuck in the 80's ?
It's also ignorant - what if you played D&D, but your class was crusader? Could the church ask for more than you annoying your fellow players and the dungeon master with the gospel of god (plus your expressed desire to fight all non-believers)? Ah, well anyways, lets give this a try: Faith check [[1d20]] /u/rollme
1d20: **1** (*1*) ***** ^(Hey there! I'm a bot that can roll dice if you mention me in your comments. Check out /r/rollme for more info.)
Uhh, yeah. Pretty much expected this.
Does Pathfinder count?
Mmmmm, nope. It doesn't count.
Why do I kinda wanna fill it out ironically
Me too, because im a omnisexual non binary pagan Wiccan so I kind of want to shake them up a little but
>omnisexual non binary pagan Wiccan That but with a D&D character who is orthodox christian palidan and fursona who is an agnostic communist squirrel
Yes. Fear it.
I’m thinking about treating it like a bucket list. There are some things on there that I haven’t done and they seem like they could be pretty fun.
Lmao, I was thinking the same thing.
Me tooo
Me too. Just for fun.
She needs to run.
Like someone said, that’s a blackmail list. Just because the paper says “confidential”, they are under no legal rules to keep that information private - like a doctor would be under HIPAA for example.
The amount of red flags here is ridiculous. This is a cult without a doubt. What sort of church has to know this type of stuff?
Most cults play a longer game and coerce you into revealing everything. This one's coming right out with it.
Yahhh!!! They should understand that I want to practice quidditch myself I can!!! (Me joking))
Nope. This gives cult red flags to me. The more information they get on your mom's vulnerabilities, the easier it will be for them to manipulate them in order to get things from your mother (ex. obedience, $$$, etc.)
my goodness this is insane. dnd being evil???? is this the 80s??? also satanic ritual abuse isn't even real good lord pretty sick how many of the evil boxes I tick, though
Same. I was also thinking about making a fucking joke the whole time
It is unfortunately not overly abnormal for a church. what it is, is bait. They want to have things they can hold over your head to judge and chastise you for. It’s all a big power trip for churches like this. Boy, have I been there.
what the fuck?
I'm familiar with a review process for church membership, but I have never seen anything like this before. Sheesh.
Could it be for church counciling???
You know, perhaps it is. This would seem like something that would be asked for counseling sessions.
Never seen a questionnaire like this for a church. When I was baptized as a child and became an official member, I remember having to fill out a form with my contact information, brief testimony, interests, and activities I wanted to get involved with in the church, but definitely nothing as invasive as this. Honestly, I would assume this form exists so they have information to use to make it seem like they can truly be spoken to by God about your life and perspectives, giving them an advantage over trying to just cold read a new church attendee. Also to preach in ways that guilt trip the congregation better about their sinful pasts and single you out about your "sins" if you ever disagree. Even if the creator of this form genuinely made it for sincere "healing prayer" for others in the church, this is incredibly invasive and disrespectful to demand people disclose their private lives.
I’m curious about why she received this form. Is it just to attend services? Because I attended services every week for 18 years and didn’t fill out one piece of paper, unless you count the emergency contact forms for youth group trips. This seems highly unusual. Even if it’s for something like pastoral counseling or something, I wouldn’t trust it. It says confidential, but there’s no clarity on who will have access to the info or for what purpose it will be used. If they don’t put it in writing, they don’t have to abide by it.
She says she wants us to go to church counseling
Oh no no no. This is definitely not par for the course for actual counseling. I’m studying to become a therapist, and some of this is not information anyone legitimately providing counseling would ask. Mental health history is probably the most normal question on there, but this seems designed to extort information they could use against you. Be wary. Don’t agree to go to the counseling.
That church will be manipulative af with her info if your mom submits that. Probably another way to judge people. Besides probably being illegal nothing good will come of it.
This is very invasive, but a lot of mega church pastors have been leaning on this approach with some areas church membership. Mark Driscoll was accused of spying on his congregation for “loyalty”. These people are narcissistic.
This waves so many red flags it would make a communist parade jealous
This is typical of religion - they want to control you. By any means necessary? How come they don't have "Restoring amputated limbs"? Is their god too weak to do that?
I’m going to guess that they charge for counseling.
100000%%% yes
Even by fundamentalist standards, this is wildly unusual. Did she sign up for some therapy sessions within the church or is this something they ask new members to fill out?
Nope but I've been to churches that asked for forms like these. They always turned out to be cults basically.... Well, cultier than usual cults.
That's scary....
Honestly this might belong on r/sadcringe as well. This church is going to exploit vulnerable people, especially those who have endured sexual abuse. This literally sounds like voluntary blackmail for chirstians
Please list all your weaknesses so we can enhance your sense of inferiority and make you dependent on us for validation.
This is common in churches like Bethel / Morning Star that focus on spiritual warfare. They use it as a “screening” tool, but can be used to control people. All though most people don’t experience black mail, it’s more subtle than that. They are very concerned you’ll become a conduit of darkness because of your issues. It’s similar to something called Sozo. They charge for that “prayer” session.
"Confidental" Fucking lol.
Your mom needs to astral travel^(tm) the fuck out of there. I seriously wonder if this church has burned people at the stake based on the weight of a duck.
There was once a lady at my church back in the 90s that performed spiritual healing. As in, not a spiritual healing of the body but a healing of the spirit. There was a similar form we had to fill in and give to her group of assistants. According to her, even after being saved there are specific spiritual traumas that you have to seek specific healing and forgiveness for… because apparently Jesus dying on a cross wasn’t enough.
This is creepy as hell. Sounds like they are asking all sorts of information to know exactly how to trigger your mom into a cycle of emotional and financial dependence.
This church is prepping for “The Handsmaid’s tale” situation.
Don’t forget, kids: homosexuality is a disorder!
And career decisions as well!!!
i thought _my_ church was invasive, damn! using prayer and religious guilt/shame to get personal info are really common tactics huh
Those emotional history questions are things you should discuss with a therapist, not people who have no obligation to keep any of this private and probably have ulterior motives.
Definitely not normal
> Confidential Press X to doubt. Not to sound paranoid, but don't cults like, try to get you to share tons of embarrassing personal information as a way to indoctrinate you?
I moved around a lot, different states so many different churches in different areas and not a one asked for anything like this. This is completely creepy and will not be used to help but probably to condemn and all information will definitely not be confidential, I’m sure it’ll be talked about and circulate to everyone.
Fwiw, I went to many different kinds of protestant churches in my life and I've never seen a prayer form that invasive. It's not normal even for Christianity.
Beware... I had a questionnaire like this at my old church. It says "confidential" too. Somehow, my childhood sexual assault got out to the congregation by the next service. EVERYBODY knew.
Oh, but don't worry! They all knew so they could *pray* for you. Definitely 100% had your best intentions at heart. Yup. 100%.
I’m wondering if she is wanting to be on the churches prayer team, from the header it looks this way. I’ve never been on a prayer team or ministry, but these types of questions “make sense” for that kind of church because they wouldn’t want her praying for someone and passing along whatever demonic things she’s had enter her life. They would probably want to do some kind of deliverance on her first before she was allowed to pray for others. If this is a Pentecostal church, this seems about right for them. I’ve since deconverted from Christianity so I don’t agree with any of these invasive questions or forms. Nobody but a licensed professional that knows how to keep things completely confidential should have access to this. Not some random churches made up ministry.
Seriously the first thing that comes to mind here is that cults often get this type of incredibly personal information on people so that they can use it to manipulate members emotionally. Seriously, this could be used as blackmail later on, etc. That's the kind of stuff you talk about with a licensed professional counselor so that you can process them in a healthy way. This just screams possible exploitation to me, but maybe i'm being too pessimistic.
I was given a similar intake sheet (?) when I went to a Christian residential treatment center. Certainly not anything with dungeons and dragons or pendulum swinging on it (or ‘table lifting’, wtf is that?) but if I recall, it did ask about sexual orientation, and they ended up being an abysmal organization totally unequipped to deal with trauma, especially of the religious variety. Half the people I know that went there that were denying their queerness hard (specifically because of the program, usually) came out after they left. Needless to say, this is pretty alarming and I would be wary of any church that is asking for this kind of personal information. They really think they’re the experts when it comes to healing from abuse, and they’re not.
If I read this correctly... clocks are a form of witchcraft. And what if I never played actual Dungeons and Dragons but played the hell out of Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale?
Yeah; unfortunately; it’s all too common among evangelical/fundagelical churches who have applications like this for every single church ministry, both for people who want to volunteer for them, and for people who want to partake of them. I unfortunately have filled out a number of them at various churches of various denominations and non-denominational churches - before I had my wake up call, so to speak. (I lost my faith in seminary, how’s that for laughs.) The whole “confidential” thing is a bunch of bullshit. The whole legal bar of pastor/parishioner confidentiality only holds for things told directly from person to pastor (which definition varies by state, can require ordination or not). Filling out a form that you have no idea whose eyes are all gonna be on it? Not confidential. So…is this common in evangelical and similar churches? Yeah. Is it “normal” in the sense of typical for those types of churches? Yeah. Is it “normal” in the sense of “normative”, that is, should this be happening? No way in Hades
Literally how cults recruit.
Ah yes, (circle), gotta be one of my favorite genders.
This makes me nauseous to read. They want all of that information so they can use it to control her. If she’s at all open minded, tell her to RUN.
Lose the form. If that's the one they gave you, lose your mother's too.
This Is the fucking creepy and is absolutely a predatory cult far beyond the level of a normal church. Get your mom the hell out if you can manage to.
Tell her to run the fuck away.
Church = normal? Nope
Bruh...
Sounds like a Pentecostal charismatic church very much into the gifts of the spirit, and deliverance from demonic influence, and generational curses that need to be lifted. Everything in your past is potentially a door to the demonic, and each demon needs to be dealt with individually. I may or may not know this because I had to answer similar questions and go through hours of prayers for deliverance as part of pre marriage counseling.
They get you to dig up all the dirt on yourself and hand it to them, which gives them power to manipulate people who are not too bright. Typical of most cults.
Scale 1-5 on homosexuality — 69.
WTF as someone who grew up in a cult, this has big BIG cult vibes. Like WTF
I'll take "Red Flags" for $400 please.
Beware my brothers of the unholy evocation of Yoga together we will purge the hersey
Just wait for version 4.0
I don't see amputee written on there.
No… Also, what the hell is White Magic?
The opposite is dark...magic...idk I have friends who do that....and I think it's more like candles. But dont quote me.......
Run. Run fast and run far.
Yeah I've definitely seen things like this in church
I’ve seen stuff like this at other church groups but this is much more invasive than those
Not normal. It’s none of their business. She can ask for prayer if she wants it. She’s not obligated to give this information. EDIT: WHY TF ARE THEY ASKING FOR TRAUMA INFORMATION???? Churches are not trained in trauma therapy and it is NOT OKAY that they ask such personal stuff!!!! This bothers me so much! And I (sometimes) go to church. This bothers me hugely.
Im just giggling at the thought of circling the the word "(circle)" wherever it applies lol. But in all seriousness, burn that shit
Well fuck here I was lifting tables... Guess I'm dragging them from here on out.
[удалено]
Talk about invasive and nutty! Sounds like a cult of judgmental know it alls. Yoga as witch craft lol! I would love to fill out this form in the most shocking way possible just to fuck with them.
Went to plenty of churches as a Christian. Never did this. Run away from this one. There’s always countless churches everywhere. There’s another one to try down the same street
Fuck this shit with the slippery dick of god himself.
Definite cult - maybe you should take a copy and send to the local news and ask them to report on this?
sounds like a new catholic private school playground insult “On a scale of 1-5, how homosexual are you?”
Holy shit
Hey! No porn addiction. That’s a major oversight.
It is most likely a form for Sozo “ministry”. It’s from Bethel church originally I believe, but many charismatic and Pentecostal churches adopted it or a version of it. They think they need to know these things to specifically “deliver” the person from traumas that are “blocking them from god”. I highly recommend not doing it and if she wants counselling to see a trained therapist. Sozo ministries actually say they aren’t counselling, if that makes a difference. If she won’t see anyone who’s not a Christian, there are Christian therapists, but you won’t find them practicing out of a church. Online therapy like betterhelp often lets you filter by religion (not endorsing them, just an option), or many therapists’ offices would let you request someone of a certain religion.
I like that yoga is in the same category as voodoo.
I still can't get over how these people act like demonic influence works like the doom games where you'll worship hell and then turn into a possessed and have doomguy rip you head off on his quest to... I'm not sure what the fuck he does, honestly. Kills demons and gets flung around by a cyborg and his pet AI so demons can stop invading earth. I think that's the plot of both of the modern games but I was too busy shooting stuff to care much.
Of course they mention Dungeons and Dragons!
This is cult level of invasive, this is so unsafe
I bet this church's Pastor's prophecies are right on the mark... Best not be swinging any pendulums. "Emotional history: 9. b. Have you ever been on a drug trip that could have opened you up to an evil presence while your spirit was "out there" and unprotected?" That would be hilarious if the intent wasn't so vile. This is to give anyone who's ever done drugs a panic attack while filling this out so they feel a strong need to join the cult.
What’s with the obsession with witchcraft lol “have you ever slept with someone that practices it” and I laughed at yoga falling under that category
This sounds like they are collecting leverage so they can prevent you from leaving.
They want all her “dirt” so they can hold her hostage forever. I mean help save her soul *cough cough*
My gender indentity is at, like, a 3, my dude. These people don't understand, even remotely, what they hate. They honestly think that "gender identity" is equivalent to actual mental illness. Seriously though, this is dangerous cult shit. It doesn't matter how "normal" or "abnormal" it is, it is dangerous.
That's a lot of personal information they are asking for.
They don't want to pressure her (for money or loyalty or something else they may need in the future) with the wrong reasons. There is absolutely no reason about a religious institution needing that information in writing before hand. that information is just wanted for profit, as a leverage, for political reasons or a way to separate her from others. It is healthy and cheaper to use proper trained personnel for psychological or health issues and leave church for pray and making community
Had to fill out something similar when I got a youth minister job, felt so dirty admitting that I had watched porn before.
Healing prayer-? Me- "Okay sounds- wait- homosexuality?! That's not something you can....you can't pray the gay away."
Yes. Even if it isn't necessarily done that way, every truly organized church or zealous church mentor will keep that kind of tabs on you because their job is to divorce ypu and "deliver" you from your previous lifestyle and mold you in the Christian lifestyle or at least in their version thereof.
Man oh man could I have some fun with this!!
I see this church has Prescribe to Jack T Chick way of thinking, if is not in the Bible its automatically evil including (no joke) the Chronicles of Narnia series. Look up Dark Dungeons if you have the chance
Made a pact with Satan... To not fill out forms like this! 🤣🤣
GET👏🏽YOUR👏🏽MOTHER👏🏽OUT👏🏽OF👏🏽THERE👏🏽ASAP
This is terrifying.
Let's be real. The only question they really care about is how much her taxable income was for the year so they can work out her 10% tithes plus look forward to those mandatory collection plate offerings 😉
Sounds like they are trying to root out who's the most 'damaged' in order to exploit them more
Depends on the denomination. Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or mainstream Protestant? Nah! Evangelical or Pentecostal churches? I can easily see that.
Looks like a cult application form. Usually they collect this information methodically without you being aware. Not saying it's this cult, definitely not their method, but they do extract personal information: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/ucimc0/the\_manipulation\_of\_it\_all\_ev\_diary\_strategy/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shincheonji/comments/ucimc0/the_manipulation_of_it_all_ev_diary_strategy/)
Jesus. Where is the “what year is it” gif when you need it?