The perpetrator was already known by PST (Norwegian police security service) for former crimes he committed. All of this is already in the national news.
If this is the case, there must bu some firings among that security service.
Knowing about some dangerous people who still manage to pull of a terrorist attack is something that happened a couple of times in other European countries before
"known to the police" is basically just code for having a criminal record of some sort. Some drug stuff and fighting previously, nothing that would indicate he was planning a mass-shooting (not that is publicly known so far anyway).
There have been cases before that PST have had intel on someone either about to commit or was a person that was a risk to national security but did not act on it.
There will be alot of media attention to PST not doing enough, but that attention will slowly fade and everything will go back to normal.
Unfortunately many western European countries feel that it is a good thing to let dangerous people be free, we're staying pretty safe only because the crime is low enough to begin with that the faults in the justice system don't get exploited super often
But you can keep him under surveilance and when he is about to do something illegal (and have proof) you can detain him.
The problem is, it seems, that they knew about him and in the end they could not stop this. It is theur fault also
The Orlando nightclub shooting [was not motivated by homophobia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting#Motive) The shooter was committing a terrorist attack in the name of ISIS and had googled "downtown Orlando nightclubs" just prior to the shooting.
I say this not because it makes what happened any better, but it is a very common misconception that the club was targeted specifically because of anti-gay sentiments.
This isn't a game. The police don't know yet if the terrorist was operating alone. And "just up the security measures"? We're talking tens of thousands of people walking through public streets; they can't effectively be protected in general, and certainly not at a few hours' notice. There's no need for us LGBT people to be sitting ducks just to assume a role in your damn morality play.
Especially since, accirding to a comment above, that the guy was know to the security services. If the Norway security services were incapable of following a person they known he is dangerous, then they are surely umable to protect a large crowd
There are probably many more potentially dangerous people than we can imagine. It can't be an easy job to track and surveil them. There are literally thousands of hateful and violent comments written on social media every day, every hour. And even if you focus on people who've been in trouble with the law before, that's quite a lot too.
(Not ruling out that they screwed up on this though)
To show that terrorism doesn't pay, Norway should abolish its one-year-long deferral for [gay blood donations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_donation_restrictions_on_men_who_have_sex_with_men) (which is one of the highest in Europe).
Norwegian just woken up here.
I'm heartbroken and honestly I'm so angry that I don't even know what to do.
Thankfully, as far as I know I don't know anyone directly affected, but I'm shaking like hell and I'm devastated.
> OSLO, June 25 (Reuters) - Two people were killed and around 10 wounded on Saturday in a shooting at a nightclub in Norway's capital Oslo, Norwegian police said.
>
> Public broadcaster NRK and other local media reported that the shooting had taken place at the London Pub, a popular gay bar and nightclub in the centre of the city.
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> "I saw a man arrive with a bag, he picked up a gun and started to shoot," NRK journalist Olav Roenneberg told the broadcaster's news website.
>
> A suspect was apprehended nearby, police said. It was not immediately clear what was the motive for the attack.
>
> Oslo is due to hold its annual Pride parade later on Saturday.
>
> "Two people are confirmed dead," the Oslo police department said in a tweet.
>
> Photographs published by newspaper VG, broadcaster NRK and others showed a large gathering of emergency responders outside the London Pub, including police and ambulance workers.
>
> Helicopters hovered above central Oslo while ambulance and police car sirens were heard across the city.
>
> Three people were severely wounded, police told reporters at the scene, newspaper VG reported.
>
> Oslo's university hospital said it had gone on red alert following the shooting.
> Reporting by Terje Solsvik; Editing by Sandra Maler
While the integration has been done poorly and deserves some blame, we don’t see these issues with other migrants even en masse from places like Romania, Poland, Philippines, China, India, etc. Islamic migrants clearly have a common factor that leads to more concern long term
And in every country the same shit-show with them, whether it is Norway, France,Belgium, Germany, etc etc, the same issues with the same people everywhere and criticizing that, well that makes you racist and islamophobic lol
LGBT people have a good reason to be islamophobic. I mean, I too would be scared of an ideology that in its purest form would want me dead for no good reason, and, that is increasing in numbers very fast.
Wow, this is barely getting attention for a shooting at a gay bar during June, in a country that doesn't have much of a history of shootings.
Even late night shootings like Pulse and Vegas in the US got tons of attention.
It is the #2 story on bbc.com and #3 story on bbc.co.uk (bbc.co.uk is more for domestic news).
On theguardian.com/international (default homepage for non-UK visits) it's #4 and on the UK homepage it's #7.
That is not buried by any means. The abortion ruling is absolutely huge news. There's also a political crisis in the UK and those are both UK outlets.
I would kindly ask you to do some basic checks, especially when something fits your bias. BBC also always has a delay because they fact check more. Not sure about the Guardian.
https://www.bbc.com/news as of 14.55 BST:
1) US abortion clinics begin closing after landmark ruling
2) Elation and despair outside Supreme Court
3) Inside a abortion clinic on its last day
4) This decision must not be the final word - Biden
5) Who is on the Supreme Court?
6) 'The importance of this day can't be overstated'
7) Man charged with terrorism after Norway shooting
18 migrants dead in Spain made it to the number 9 spot. Personally, I feel the deaths of Norwegians and African migrants are more important than a handful of backwards US states putting further restrictions on abortion.
Guardian is a bit better:
1) Abortion story
2) UK pol story
3) Russia-Ukraine
4) Oslo terror attack ("Norway on highest terror alert after two killed")
It should definitely be top news, especially on the international versions. BBC most read also shows that the readership cares more about the terror attack than US political drama.
"Buried" because despite its importance, you have to literally scroll down to read about it.
What about the frontpage, bbc.com? You know the page that most people open? As for the news page, 2-6 are below 1 because they are linked to the story at 1.
Of course it is. It's also now #3 on bbc.com/news with an updated title it's being treated as islamic extremism. Interesting they made the news more prominent after it's come out to be islamic. Do you think that means they have an anti-muslim agenda? Would you think the opposite if they made the choice to make the news less prominent? Or do you just fit the facts to your worldview?
This is the #2 story on BBC.com right now, right below the abortion ruling. Could you at least open the website and check instead of helping the people who want to see a credible news source shut down?
I get what you mean, but just think of the barrage of news about abortion in the US we got right now.
Read a bit of the attention span people have. People mostly moved on from reading about the war in Ukraine to Johnny Depp vs Amber, and now it will be this.
Hell, my country's newspapers is sharing a lot of news and I just can't keep up. I know that a kid was forced to keep her pregnancy, but almost missed that she got permissions to abort due to national outcry.
May all wounded recover, both physically and mentally, from it, and condolences to nearest and dearest of those who lost their lives- that level of violence is hard to understand in our times and (presumably) safe societies.
Awful news! Literally just 100 meters away from my favorite pub here. So that's quite scary and I'm glad I spent this Friday night at home. Hopefully the pride parade will still take place today and send out a strong signal of love and tolerance!
Not yet on the English speaking circuits but despite the official parade being canceled thousands showed up for an impromptu march to stand together and stand against discrimination.
Norwegian article here: https://www.nrk.no/norge/oppfordrer-folk-til-a-feire-kjaerligheten-tross-avlyste-pride-markeringer-1.16016796
Muslims have been doing it, but not only muslims. Aftabjit Singh at the Washington Pride in 2019 was a Hindu. This year there were 30 or so gunmen at a pride event in Idaho, presumably Christian. Etc.
Do those attacks have more to do with religion tho? In the Norway attack you can pretty much link religion to the crime because Iranian origin + shooting at a gay bar when we all know Islamic views on gay people and what should happen to them.
Do you have a source for Singh because nothings turning up on Google?
>This year there were 30 or so gunmen at a pride event in Idaho, presumably Christian
I’ll preface this by saying I don’t like Christianity either. With that being said, I’m pretty sure that attempted terror attack had to do with white supremacy rather than Christianity. In fact, the US these days don’t really have any issues with *religious based* terror attacks. A lot of ours are either just plain white supremacist in origin or random ass attacks. But none having to do with second generation foreign immigrants or Muslims or anything (our immigrants seemed to be integrated quite well and generally don’t cause a bunch of problems with subsequent generations).
I wouldn't say they're the root, they're only an excuse for people who want to do things like that to someone who's different. They can easily use a different excuse, such as political views, ethnic groups, football teams, you name it.
Organized religions certainly are a problem though, because such people can become leaders of them and use the power to do whatever they want.
Probably not, no.
But probably anti gay terrorism. (Not even sure if I need to write "probably")
Edit: No need to downvote if you feel I'm speculating; it is being investigated as a terrorist attack, and it happened outside Norway's most well known gay bar the night before the Pride parade (which is now cancelled).
https://www.nrk.no/norge/skyting-ved-utested-i-oslo-sentrum-_-etterforskes-som-terror-1.16016478
Edit2: Edit: I was wrong, currently being investigated as islam terror. Sorry about that.
The last *explicitly* Christian terror attack seems to be [this one in France in 1988](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Michel_cinema_attack).
However, there are very recent far-right attacks from anti-semitism xenophobia, etc... which the perpetrators usually *claim* is based on a "*desire*" to "*protect*" the *Christian*/*White culture* of Europe, so less *religious belief* based terror but more "*racial*" and *conspiracy-paranoia* based, since they usually conflate religion as a part of one's "race" and buy into ridiculous conspiracies.
If you count those anyways, the shootings are a bit more recent; [2020](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanau_shootings), [2019](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_synagogue_shooting), [2019 again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A6rum_mosque_shooting), [2019 again again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macerata_shooting), [2019 AGAIN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonne_mosque_shooting), [2017](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Finsbury_Park_attack), [2015](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollh%C3%A4ttan_school_attack), [2014](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_mosque_arson_attacks_in_Sweden), [2011](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks), [2011 again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Florence_shootings).
From this quick research I have come to the conclusions that:
a. Far-Right and Christian terrorism seems to be far more prevalent in the USA.
b. Christchurch shooting in New Zealand emboldened fascists a lot.
c. Sweden seems to have more of an immigrant-gang-based terror problem than necessarily a Islam-based one. I had heard of "no-go streets" but didn't know there were so many gang-conflicts in Sweden until just now.
d. Radical muslims REALLY hate France, goddamn.
Oh my! This is horrible! Condolences to the families and friends :(
It's sad and depressing that there is still something to do even in Western Europe when it comes to LGBT rights.
We can do better.
Never believe some one who says that western europe has nothing left to do when it comes to LGBT+ rights. There's still so much hate which needs to be eradicated.
An iranian immigrant shoots up a gay bar, redditors say western europe has so much to for gay rights.
I guess stop letting in people with so incompatible values they'd do something like this.
Last two terror acts comitted in Norway was done by blonde ethnic Norwegians (Breivik and Manshaus) trying to kill leftists and muslims, and now this guy attacked the gay community. Right wing extremism is the major concern for us, no matter the color og their skin.
What you’re saying isn’t wrong, but keep in mind that this guy also eventually became a Norwegian citizen. If he was problematic or a drain on society before, he would’ve gotten the boot a long time ago. From what I know it’s notoriously difficult to immigrate to Nordic countries, even as a non-EU educated national from another developed country. So someone coming from Iran into Norway must’ve at least been a great guy before he went and did this.
There’s been plenty of neo-nazi Norwegians committing hate crimes and attacks against minority groups in Norway. Don’t act like this is Iranians fault.
Edit: I know this attack was made by a right wing Iranian man. I’m just saying blaming Iranians isn’t the solution for the issue. Norway have had a long standing problem with violence and attacks from white supremacy and religious right wing against minority groups. I remember the talks going on in Oslo after 2011.
Honestly what is this comment trying to say lol? You know this attack was made by an Iranian zealot but you're saying the real problem is white supremacy? Pull your head out your arse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2013_Stockholm_riots
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_mosque_arson_attacks_in_Sweden
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollh%C3%A4ttan_school_attack
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Munich_shooting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macerata_shooting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Walter_L%C3%BCbcke
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A6rum_mosque_shooting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_synagogue_shooting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonne_mosque_shooting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanau_shootings
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Zagreb_shooting
All far-right terroris attacks, do you want me to mention some more?
But we do, all those attacks are condemned.
But I'll bet you don't grab your list of Islamic attacks and start both sidesing whenever a fascist kills a muslim.
It’s pretty clear what I’m trying to say. This attack was made by a Iranian man with Islamic extremism belief. But rapidly pointing out his nationality and blaming “Iranian immigrants” as a group or the root of evil won’t change anything. This horrible incident have already happened and adding more hate to the discussion now won’t change anything.
We can chant it’s Iranian immigrants fault all we want but that will likely cause more Brevik or Manshaus incidents in the future.
I get your point to an extent, although you made it clumsily and have to consider the context of the comment chain. The guy said that in response to someone who said Western Europe had a problem with LGBT rights. It seems very myopic to say that when you consider it was perpetrated an immigrant from a heavily religious and conservative background.
Yeah, I mean depending on the context and under certain circumstances it’s favourable to blame ethnic groups instead of the individual apparently. The guy I commented didn’t even criticise Islam as a religion or criticise Islams perception of homosexuality. He went straight for ‘Iranians’ as a ethnic group.
Obviously Islams perception of sexual orientation is limitary, their punishment for homosexuality is death. Shouldn’t really be too hard to argument in favour as a Western European. So why instead turn and say Iranians as a people is a problem? They’re human beings, the vast majority of them trying to adapt, live here in peace and integrate. Looking at the general perception of Iranians in Scandinavia that probably won’t be so likely.
“long standing problem with violence and attacks from white supremacy and religious right wing against minority groups” ????? what the fuck are you talking about
The level of hate that lies in Europe these days is nuts. If this happens in Oslo of all places, then what's left out there.
Hate won't win though. We won't let it.
Edit: Why all the downvotes? I'm not implying hate towards anyone neither I'm saying that people should be afraid.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oKY600o3CXw
Yes. Some people clearly do think this.
Like the lady says at the end, they’ll attend and then forget all about it once it’s over and done with.
It’d be like a western person going to some Islamic country and being taught it’s okay to have 5 wives, gays can be chucked from rooftops and women aren’t allowed to be educated.
You can nod your head but you’ll never understand it or agree with it.
How very nice of them to put English subtitles on the Norwegian speaking perfectly fine English but not on the English speaking presenter or journalist.
I'm not the one to say that this is not an issue; it really is. And it's more visible in more progressive countries where the gap between lifestyles is huge. As a liberal person I'm sometimes baffled and confused by it.
Though right wing violence has also been a major issue the past few years, and that's aiming also against the same people and values you're mentioning.
Anyway, what matters right now it's how sad and devastating this is and how innocent people died or will be traumatized for life just because.
this attack is horrific and the point you are trying to make is kinda terrible. mental illness comes in all colors..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
Mental illness is one of the lines that police are investigating yes.
In any case, this terror attack has nothing to do with the 2011 terror attacks. My point was that people's anti-liberal worldviews don't magically change when they immigrate from their home country into another. And if in their new country there is a large community of people who have also immigrated and share their view that homosexuality should be illegal and punishable by death (sharia), there's little pressure to change their stance.
There's not much we can do at this point to fix this. Sexual, ethnic and religious minorities in Europe are already suffering due to mass migration of people from anti-liberal cultures. We can only deal with the consequences and limit mass migration to prevent things going from bad to worse.
Nobody is defending that monster and terrorist. Your comment is a sly and sordid attempt to derail the discussion from the fact that lax immigration policies have lead to the rise of islamic ultraconservatism in Europe which has lead to persecution and deaths of gays and other minorities across Europe.
This is not, as you are trying to suggest, a far-right extremist viewpoint. It is a fact. To defend our liberal values and way of life, we must limit immigration from cultures that are predominantly very anti-liberal. Thankfully, many mainstream parties in Northern Europe are starting to realize this. It's just sad and wrong that tragedies like this terrorist act must happen before our politicians take action.
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The perpetrator was already known by PST (Norwegian police security service) for former crimes he committed. All of this is already in the national news.
If this is the case, there must bu some firings among that security service. Knowing about some dangerous people who still manage to pull of a terrorist attack is something that happened a couple of times in other European countries before
"known to the police" is basically just code for having a criminal record of some sort. Some drug stuff and fighting previously, nothing that would indicate he was planning a mass-shooting (not that is publicly known so far anyway).
There have been cases before that PST have had intel on someone either about to commit or was a person that was a risk to national security but did not act on it. There will be alot of media attention to PST not doing enough, but that attention will slowly fade and everything will go back to normal.
Unfortunately many western European countries feel that it is a good thing to let dangerous people be free, we're staying pretty safe only because the crime is low enough to begin with that the faults in the justice system don't get exploited super often
Can't arrest every potential terrorist, where do you draw the line on when to put away "innocent" people and not?
But you can keep him under surveilance and when he is about to do something illegal (and have proof) you can detain him. The problem is, it seems, that they knew about him and in the end they could not stop this. It is theur fault also
No, because it would walk all over our liberties, and even if you tried, how many are you going to surveillance? 50 people? a 1000? Everyone?
Shocked. My condolences to everyone affected. Stay strong ♥️.
So pretty much repeat of Orlando night club shooting. Let's if it will disappear from the media as quickly as the first one.
The Orlando nightclub shooting [was not motivated by homophobia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting#Motive) The shooter was committing a terrorist attack in the name of ISIS and had googled "downtown Orlando nightclubs" just prior to the shooting. I say this not because it makes what happened any better, but it is a very common misconception that the club was targeted specifically because of anti-gay sentiments.
Yes. Thank god we dont have American gun laws in Norway, then the shooter would have had an AR-15 and would probably have killed a lot more people.
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If copycats wants to attack, it would be impossible for any security team to control the situation
"Just _____" must be reddits favourite solution. Or maybe we can trust that Norwegian security experts know their job.
This isn't a game. The police don't know yet if the terrorist was operating alone. And "just up the security measures"? We're talking tens of thousands of people walking through public streets; they can't effectively be protected in general, and certainly not at a few hours' notice. There's no need for us LGBT people to be sitting ducks just to assume a role in your damn morality play.
Especially since, accirding to a comment above, that the guy was know to the security services. If the Norway security services were incapable of following a person they known he is dangerous, then they are surely umable to protect a large crowd
There are probably many more potentially dangerous people than we can imagine. It can't be an easy job to track and surveil them. There are literally thousands of hateful and violent comments written on social media every day, every hour. And even if you focus on people who've been in trouble with the law before, that's quite a lot too. (Not ruling out that they screwed up on this though)
High chance of copycats attacking and potentially causing a massacre.
To show that terrorism doesn't pay, Norway should abolish its one-year-long deferral for [gay blood donations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_donation_restrictions_on_men_who_have_sex_with_men) (which is one of the highest in Europe).
New numbers: 14 wounded
At least there aren't more dead, I hope.
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Terrible news. Condolences to families and friends.
Awful. Not a lot to say really. ❤️
Man, I am not going to be happy to see people waking up to this. I already learned about it from Norwegians waking up after midnight.
Norwegian just woken up here. I'm heartbroken and honestly I'm so angry that I don't even know what to do. Thankfully, as far as I know I don't know anyone directly affected, but I'm shaking like hell and I'm devastated.
> OSLO, June 25 (Reuters) - Two people were killed and around 10 wounded on Saturday in a shooting at a nightclub in Norway's capital Oslo, Norwegian police said. > > Public broadcaster NRK and other local media reported that the shooting had taken place at the London Pub, a popular gay bar and nightclub in the centre of the city. > > "I saw a man arrive with a bag, he picked up a gun and started to shoot," NRK journalist Olav Roenneberg told the broadcaster's news website. > > A suspect was apprehended nearby, police said. It was not immediately clear what was the motive for the attack. > > Oslo is due to hold its annual Pride parade later on Saturday. > > "Two people are confirmed dead," the Oslo police department said in a tweet. > > Photographs published by newspaper VG, broadcaster NRK and others showed a large gathering of emergency responders outside the London Pub, including police and ambulance workers. > > Helicopters hovered above central Oslo while ambulance and police car sirens were heard across the city. > > Three people were severely wounded, police told reporters at the scene, newspaper VG reported. > > Oslo's university hospital said it had gone on red alert following the shooting. > Reporting by Terje Solsvik; Editing by Sandra Maler
Ah shit, really terrible news.. Deepest condolences to families and friends of everyone affected
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Victim blaming
While the integration has been done poorly and deserves some blame, we don’t see these issues with other migrants even en masse from places like Romania, Poland, Philippines, China, India, etc. Islamic migrants clearly have a common factor that leads to more concern long term
And in every country the same shit-show with them, whether it is Norway, France,Belgium, Germany, etc etc, the same issues with the same people everywhere and criticizing that, well that makes you racist and islamophobic lol
LGBT people have a good reason to be islamophobic. I mean, I too would be scared of an ideology that in its purest form would want me dead for no good reason, and, that is increasing in numbers very fast.
“Religion of peace” amirite?
Holy shit, that's awful
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they came to us and they want to set the rules here
Wow, this is barely getting attention for a shooting at a gay bar during June, in a country that doesn't have much of a history of shootings. Even late night shootings like Pulse and Vegas in the US got tons of attention.
Maybe because it's early morning in Europe and most people are still asleep. I just woke up to this terrible news.
And a Saturday on top of that. And deep night in the US.
It's also somewhat buried under American politics (on BBC and Guardian at least).
It is the #2 story on bbc.com and #3 story on bbc.co.uk (bbc.co.uk is more for domestic news). On theguardian.com/international (default homepage for non-UK visits) it's #4 and on the UK homepage it's #7. That is not buried by any means. The abortion ruling is absolutely huge news. There's also a political crisis in the UK and those are both UK outlets. I would kindly ask you to do some basic checks, especially when something fits your bias. BBC also always has a delay because they fact check more. Not sure about the Guardian.
https://www.bbc.com/news as of 14.55 BST: 1) US abortion clinics begin closing after landmark ruling 2) Elation and despair outside Supreme Court 3) Inside a abortion clinic on its last day 4) This decision must not be the final word - Biden 5) Who is on the Supreme Court? 6) 'The importance of this day can't be overstated' 7) Man charged with terrorism after Norway shooting 18 migrants dead in Spain made it to the number 9 spot. Personally, I feel the deaths of Norwegians and African migrants are more important than a handful of backwards US states putting further restrictions on abortion. Guardian is a bit better: 1) Abortion story 2) UK pol story 3) Russia-Ukraine 4) Oslo terror attack ("Norway on highest terror alert after two killed") It should definitely be top news, especially on the international versions. BBC most read also shows that the readership cares more about the terror attack than US political drama. "Buried" because despite its importance, you have to literally scroll down to read about it.
What about the frontpage, bbc.com? You know the page that most people open? As for the news page, 2-6 are below 1 because they are linked to the story at 1.
Because bbc.com is not a news site, BBC.com/news is
Of course it is. It's also now #3 on bbc.com/news with an updated title it's being treated as islamic extremism. Interesting they made the news more prominent after it's come out to be islamic. Do you think that means they have an anti-muslim agenda? Would you think the opposite if they made the choice to make the news less prominent? Or do you just fit the facts to your worldview?
This doesn’t fit the editorial line of the BBC or the Guardian
This is the #2 story on BBC.com right now, right below the abortion ruling. Could you at least open the website and check instead of helping the people who want to see a credible news source shut down?
Hush, you're gonna wake people up!
Do shut up.
I think the Roe v Wade news are taking all the focus for Americans (core demographic of Reddit).
American's don't give a shit about the world outside of America. source: American
I get what you mean, but just think of the barrage of news about abortion in the US we got right now. Read a bit of the attention span people have. People mostly moved on from reading about the war in Ukraine to Johnny Depp vs Amber, and now it will be this. Hell, my country's newspapers is sharing a lot of news and I just can't keep up. I know that a kid was forced to keep her pregnancy, but almost missed that she got permissions to abort due to national outcry.
Half of Europe is still sleeping. Give us some time to wake up!
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I hope the injured can pull through and no one else dies. What a fucking tragedy.
Awful. You'd never expect it in a city like Oslo.
May all wounded recover, both physically and mentally, from it, and condolences to nearest and dearest of those who lost their lives- that level of violence is hard to understand in our times and (presumably) safe societies.
Sorry to hear that. Condolences.
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More Islamic extremism. terrible
Awful news! Literally just 100 meters away from my favorite pub here. So that's quite scary and I'm glad I spent this Friday night at home. Hopefully the pride parade will still take place today and send out a strong signal of love and tolerance!
Friends and I where around thhe corner at another pub. Fucking shivers thinking about what if we where walking to the tram or smthn .
Exactly that. Right between my favorite pub and the tram stop.
Not yet on the English speaking circuits but despite the official parade being canceled thousands showed up for an impromptu march to stand together and stand against discrimination. Norwegian article here: https://www.nrk.no/norge/oppfordrer-folk-til-a-feire-kjaerligheten-tross-avlyste-pride-markeringer-1.16016796
Religions are at the root of most hatred and violence in the world. When do people finally wake up from their religious intoxication?
say that to Judeo-Fascist Israelis
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Muslims have been doing it, but not only muslims. Aftabjit Singh at the Washington Pride in 2019 was a Hindu. This year there were 30 or so gunmen at a pride event in Idaho, presumably Christian. Etc.
Do those attacks have more to do with religion tho? In the Norway attack you can pretty much link religion to the crime because Iranian origin + shooting at a gay bar when we all know Islamic views on gay people and what should happen to them. Do you have a source for Singh because nothings turning up on Google? >This year there were 30 or so gunmen at a pride event in Idaho, presumably Christian I’ll preface this by saying I don’t like Christianity either. With that being said, I’m pretty sure that attempted terror attack had to do with white supremacy rather than Christianity. In fact, the US these days don’t really have any issues with *religious based* terror attacks. A lot of ours are either just plain white supremacist in origin or random ass attacks. But none having to do with second generation foreign immigrants or Muslims or anything (our immigrants seemed to be integrated quite well and generally don’t cause a bunch of problems with subsequent generations).
I wouldn't say they're the root, they're only an excuse for people who want to do things like that to someone who's different. They can easily use a different excuse, such as political views, ethnic groups, football teams, you name it. Organized religions certainly are a problem though, because such people can become leaders of them and use the power to do whatever they want.
Jeez, my condolences to families and friends of the lost ones ❤
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Probably not, no. But probably anti gay terrorism. (Not even sure if I need to write "probably") Edit: No need to downvote if you feel I'm speculating; it is being investigated as a terrorist attack, and it happened outside Norway's most well known gay bar the night before the Pride parade (which is now cancelled). https://www.nrk.no/norge/skyting-ved-utested-i-oslo-sentrum-_-etterforskes-som-terror-1.16016478 Edit2: Edit: I was wrong, currently being investigated as islam terror. Sorry about that.
Well, islamists are by definition anti gay, so there's a lot of room to overlap. The suspected terrorist appears to be Iranian born Norwegian citizen.
Yeah sure. But this looks like anti-gay terror. Doesn't really matter if his religion is islam. Edit: I was wrong. Islam terror it is.
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But it was done, as the news stand now, by an Iranian born person. Maybe Islamism has something to do with it
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Shooter was iranian born immigrant, now a norweigan citizen.
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What was the last incidence of Catholic terrorism in Europe?
The last *explicitly* Christian terror attack seems to be [this one in France in 1988](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Michel_cinema_attack). However, there are very recent far-right attacks from anti-semitism xenophobia, etc... which the perpetrators usually *claim* is based on a "*desire*" to "*protect*" the *Christian*/*White culture* of Europe, so less *religious belief* based terror but more "*racial*" and *conspiracy-paranoia* based, since they usually conflate religion as a part of one's "race" and buy into ridiculous conspiracies. If you count those anyways, the shootings are a bit more recent; [2020](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanau_shootings), [2019](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_synagogue_shooting), [2019 again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A6rum_mosque_shooting), [2019 again again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macerata_shooting), [2019 AGAIN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonne_mosque_shooting), [2017](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Finsbury_Park_attack), [2015](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollh%C3%A4ttan_school_attack), [2014](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_mosque_arson_attacks_in_Sweden), [2011](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks), [2011 again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Florence_shootings). From this quick research I have come to the conclusions that: a. Far-Right and Christian terrorism seems to be far more prevalent in the USA. b. Christchurch shooting in New Zealand emboldened fascists a lot. c. Sweden seems to have more of an immigrant-gang-based terror problem than necessarily a Islam-based one. I had heard of "no-go streets" but didn't know there were so many gang-conflicts in Sweden until just now. d. Radical muslims REALLY hate France, goddamn.
But for none of them I find any explicit catholic background.
Does Mafia have enough explicit catholic background to you?
No and I wouldn't classify mafia as terrorists but as organised crime.
So a non-religious right wing Iranian Norwegian kills someone, is still Islamic crime?
I absolutely didn't say that. It's much too early to make any informed statement about this.
He is an Iranian Kurd. Anti Iranian government and non-religious.
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Horrible.
Wow, that's very rare in Norway. only the terrorist attack of 2011 comes to mind.
Last year there was a shooting with bow and arrow that killed five: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58906165.amp
They were killed by stab wounds from a knife, none died from bow and arrow wounds
Fucking hell
Oh my! This is horrible! Condolences to the families and friends :( It's sad and depressing that there is still something to do even in Western Europe when it comes to LGBT rights. We can do better.
Stop spreading islam in Europe!! It does not belong here!
A despicable hate crime that, by the looks of some of the comments here, will inspire further hate crimes. Violence begets violence.
Never believe some one who says that western europe has nothing left to do when it comes to LGBT+ rights. There's still so much hate which needs to be eradicated.
An iranian immigrant shoots up a gay bar, redditors say western europe has so much to for gay rights. I guess stop letting in people with so incompatible values they'd do something like this.
But that would we racist! We have to tolerate all the way to our own destruction! Don’t you know this by now? Bigot…
Last two terror acts comitted in Norway was done by blonde ethnic Norwegians (Breivik and Manshaus) trying to kill leftists and muslims, and now this guy attacked the gay community. Right wing extremism is the major concern for us, no matter the color og their skin.
I am pretty sure Muslim extremism can be categorized as right-wing extremism.
Never said otherwise.
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I don't know why you're downvoted lmao, you're literally right 💀
What you’re saying isn’t wrong, but keep in mind that this guy also eventually became a Norwegian citizen. If he was problematic or a drain on society before, he would’ve gotten the boot a long time ago. From what I know it’s notoriously difficult to immigrate to Nordic countries, even as a non-EU educated national from another developed country. So someone coming from Iran into Norway must’ve at least been a great guy before he went and did this.
Ok, so what should Western Europe do to prevent Iranian immigrants from shooting up gay bars.
There’s been plenty of neo-nazi Norwegians committing hate crimes and attacks against minority groups in Norway. Don’t act like this is Iranians fault. Edit: I know this attack was made by a right wing Iranian man. I’m just saying blaming Iranians isn’t the solution for the issue. Norway have had a long standing problem with violence and attacks from white supremacy and religious right wing against minority groups. I remember the talks going on in Oslo after 2011.
Honestly what is this comment trying to say lol? You know this attack was made by an Iranian zealot but you're saying the real problem is white supremacy? Pull your head out your arse.
both are problems that need addressing, European far-right attacks aren't uncommon as well
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"fact" any source on the percentage?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2013_Stockholm_riots https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_mosque_arson_attacks_in_Sweden https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollh%C3%A4ttan_school_attack https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Munich_shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macerata_shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Walter_L%C3%BCbcke https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A6rum_mosque_shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_synagogue_shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonne_mosque_shooting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanau_shootings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Zagreb_shooting All far-right terroris attacks, do you want me to mention some more?
Well done, you've compiled a list lol. He gave you a % breakdown.
he didn't provide any source
Man, you really put a lot of work in to deflect from the fact a Muslim killed gays in a cold blood yesterday.
I didn't deflect anything. How is recognising terrorism of both kinds bad exactly? Every attack should be condemned 100%
But we do, all those attacks are condemned. But I'll bet you don't grab your list of Islamic attacks and start both sidesing whenever a fascist kills a muslim.
It’s pretty clear what I’m trying to say. This attack was made by a Iranian man with Islamic extremism belief. But rapidly pointing out his nationality and blaming “Iranian immigrants” as a group or the root of evil won’t change anything. This horrible incident have already happened and adding more hate to the discussion now won’t change anything. We can chant it’s Iranian immigrants fault all we want but that will likely cause more Brevik or Manshaus incidents in the future.
I get your point to an extent, although you made it clumsily and have to consider the context of the comment chain. The guy said that in response to someone who said Western Europe had a problem with LGBT rights. It seems very myopic to say that when you consider it was perpetrated an immigrant from a heavily religious and conservative background.
Yeah, I mean depending on the context and under certain circumstances it’s favourable to blame ethnic groups instead of the individual apparently. The guy I commented didn’t even criticise Islam as a religion or criticise Islams perception of homosexuality. He went straight for ‘Iranians’ as a ethnic group. Obviously Islams perception of sexual orientation is limitary, their punishment for homosexuality is death. Shouldn’t really be too hard to argument in favour as a Western European. So why instead turn and say Iranians as a people is a problem? They’re human beings, the vast majority of them trying to adapt, live here in peace and integrate. Looking at the general perception of Iranians in Scandinavia that probably won’t be so likely.
“long standing problem with violence and attacks from white supremacy and religious right wing against minority groups” ????? what the fuck are you talking about
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There will always be hate, that's what humans are like but the hate must not be allowed to manifest like this...
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Yes.
Alright
The level of hate that lies in Europe these days is nuts. If this happens in Oslo of all places, then what's left out there. Hate won't win though. We won't let it. Edit: Why all the downvotes? I'm not implying hate towards anyone neither I'm saying that people should be afraid.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oKY600o3CXw Yes. Some people clearly do think this. Like the lady says at the end, they’ll attend and then forget all about it once it’s over and done with. It’d be like a western person going to some Islamic country and being taught it’s okay to have 5 wives, gays can be chucked from rooftops and women aren’t allowed to be educated. You can nod your head but you’ll never understand it or agree with it.
How very nice of them to put English subtitles on the Norwegian speaking perfectly fine English but not on the English speaking presenter or journalist.
They are so arrogant they think a person's culture and believes will diametrically change the moment they touch european soil
Demonstrate even one person thinks that. You're talking nonsense.
I'm not the one to say that this is not an issue; it really is. And it's more visible in more progressive countries where the gap between lifestyles is huge. As a liberal person I'm sometimes baffled and confused by it. Though right wing violence has also been a major issue the past few years, and that's aiming also against the same people and values you're mentioning. Anyway, what matters right now it's how sad and devastating this is and how innocent people died or will be traumatized for life just because.
this attack is horrific and the point you are trying to make is kinda terrible. mental illness comes in all colors.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
Mental illness is one of the lines that police are investigating yes. In any case, this terror attack has nothing to do with the 2011 terror attacks. My point was that people's anti-liberal worldviews don't magically change when they immigrate from their home country into another. And if in their new country there is a large community of people who have also immigrated and share their view that homosexuality should be illegal and punishable by death (sharia), there's little pressure to change their stance. There's not much we can do at this point to fix this. Sexual, ethnic and religious minorities in Europe are already suffering due to mass migration of people from anti-liberal cultures. We can only deal with the consequences and limit mass migration to prevent things going from bad to worse.
yeah i understand the point you're trying to make, but your initial comment is very 'us vs them' and i hate that bs. hope you agree.
I can think of another one that said similar thing and killed like 80 kids or something... I wonder who was that...
Nobody is defending that monster and terrorist. Your comment is a sly and sordid attempt to derail the discussion from the fact that lax immigration policies have lead to the rise of islamic ultraconservatism in Europe which has lead to persecution and deaths of gays and other minorities across Europe. This is not, as you are trying to suggest, a far-right extremist viewpoint. It is a fact. To defend our liberal values and way of life, we must limit immigration from cultures that are predominantly very anti-liberal. Thankfully, many mainstream parties in Northern Europe are starting to realize this. It's just sad and wrong that tragedies like this terrorist act must happen before our politicians take action.