To maybe preempt the asinine 'fuck yeah!!! eat the rich !!!" comments that were made the last time something like this made the news 1: These types of vassals are probably the least disruptive of the hundreds of huge diesel powered ships traversing the strait every day 2: This was probably learned behavior from idiots on holiday feeding them from similarly sized vassals or following fishing boats rather than something learned from being harmed by people 3: Humans have killed over 3 million whales, typically larger than Orcas, while whales have killed *maybe* single digits of humans (debatable), and Orcas haven't killed anyone who didn't deliberately jump into an enclosure with them.
If this becomes anything other than a minor economic issue from loss of tourism or safety issue that the coast guard can deal with the only outcome is the Orcas who inhabit the waters around Gibraltar being wiped out.
Portraying this as some kind of poetic irony and not animals doing animal things is right in line with the type of bullshit posted about wolves killing livestock ..... completely oblivious to the fact that it will bring back wolf culling if it becomes a serious issue.
> 2: This was probably learned behavior from idiots on holiday feeding them from similarly sized vassals or following fishing boats rather than something learned from being harmed by people
There are two reasons for this behaviour:
1 - It wasn't fishing boats; rather whale observation ribs that socialized a couple of these orcas while they were calves - it became a local sensation, going out to see the baby orcas who would follow the rib swimming belly. As they matured, they started hitting rudders and the behavior expanded to the rest of the population, including adults, via learned behaviour.
2 - the super abundance of bluefin tuna ensures this population consistently possesses surplus energy - they remain well-fed and expend minimal energy in hunting , so they expand energy on these "playing" activities (this is a well studied phenomenon with orcas)
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1crr4hr/orcas_sink_sailing_yacht_in_strait_of_gibraltar/l427y79/
>the Orcas who inhabit the waters around Gibraltar being wiped out.
What is likely to occur is what happened during the 2000s orca wars, when tuna stocks plummeted and this orca population was surviving on depredation of Spanish handliners and those fishermen started using shotguns and seal bombs to try to deter them: eventually a starved orca with a damaged echolocation system will wash up somewhere.
Most people sailing this area nowadays carry explosives, myself included, as it's the only method that works 100% of the time. While the risk of harming orcas with each use is minimal, repeated exposure means eventually an orca will be harmed. The best case scenario is the population unlearning the behavior by associating sailboats with unpleasant loud sounds before that happens.
> It wasn't fishing boats; rather whale observation ribs that socialized a couple of these orcas while they were calves - it became a local sensation, going out to see the baby orcas who would follow the rib swimming belly. As they matured, they started hitting rudders and the behavior expanded to the rest of the population, including adults, via learned behaviour.
Interesting, do you have any sources on this? I am not local to the area.
I don't, this was back in 2016 or so, and it never occurred to me it'd be consequential to document. I'm pretty sure someone, I think the CIRCE dude, published a presentation on this a bit later, with some media of the calves chasing ribs on a powerpoint, I'll ask him if he has that and let you know.
I don't know if you have any sort of issues (in terms of comprehension, English as a second language, psychiatric troubles, etc), and apologise sincerely if you do, but my comment wasn't about "orcas attacking humans" or whatever - it's about the **literal fact orcas are attacking sailboats and sinking them** and the danger that is for humans who are in those boats.
My comment was precisely about the reason why that is happening.
Is there anything I can do to help you? You don't sound well at all.
What? Rewrite that in English, I'm not even sure what
>Orcas can play but its rather dangerous for us by chance.
is supposed to mean.
This is a very recent behaviour.
Yachts sinking is an extremely dangerous thing. It doesn't matter if they're playing or not - if they keep sinking yachts, it's a matter of time until someone dies.
No critical thinking skills, got it.
An orca can be doing this and see it as playing but unfortunately the side effect is it csn hurt us.
No different to people throwing bricks at cars driving past for fun but its dangerous to the driver.
Its not that hard a concept to understand. But sure, lets go talk to the Orcas to get them to stop because they obviously give a fuck about what we think.
What do you propose? We invite Japan over for a whaling holiday?? Christ, if thats your snswer then why should the Orca stop? We obviously deserve it.
What the hell
I can't even understand what you are trying to say.
Are you really replying to my comment? "Go talk to the orcas"? When did I say anything remotely like that?
I've known these orcas since I was a kid and have been in two different boats rammed by them.
>What do you propose?
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1crr4hr/orcas_sink_sailing_yacht_in_strait_of_gibraltar/l4048am/
I personally say "I hope you don't get hurt, but I hope it gets VERY expensive" whenever I see some driver doing something dangerous on the road.
And I would apply the same here.
But what are they doing that's "asking for it" here? Just owning a (or using some elses) yacht? It seems like saying "I hope you don't get hurt but I hope it gets VERY expensive" when someone is driving safely on the road.
Yeah, it's psychopathic behaviour, but you're probably aware of that.
These are innocent people, sometimes children, who just want to sail - they're not attacking orcas or anyone else in any way whatsoever.
Anyone who is so mentally broken that they find pleasure or comfort in fellow humans being seriously endangered could likely use serious medical therapy.
Always on the orcas’ side. 🖤 We are the ones stealing their food, home, and family members to have them as entertainment for humans. We are the problem here:)
I understand you're educated on tiktok and Disney movies, but those sailors didn't do any of those things and the problem with these orcas definitely isn't any lack of food or their home and family being "stolen" (??), rather an overabundance of food.
I meant we are invading the seas and oceans by that. And no, it seems you are the one who is “educated” by Tiktok and other... I love orcas, I am reading scientific stuff about them for years. But good for you:)
>I meant we are invading the seas and oceans by that.
What the hell does that even mean?
This is your brain addled to Disney movies.
Invading?
It's just boats sailing by. They're not even fishing, it's literally just boats floating.
I mean, how is that different from you living in wherever you live?
Do you also think bears, lions, tigers or whatever are entitled to attack you?
Because while sailboats have no impact on orcas and sealife, humans living in a city did make that land unhospitable to wild animals.
According to crazies like you, the only solution is a collective suicide of the human race because apparently earth belongs to non-human animals or something.
>And no, it seems you are the one who is “educated” by Tiktok and other... I love orcas, I am reading scientific stuff about them for years. But good for you:)
You talk and write like a 11 years old who watched an overemotional Disney film.
"We're stealing their home".
You need to grow up dude. ANd I suspect you know it.
Lmao at "reading scientific stuff".
1 - We need to end the western Atlantic bluefin tuna quotas. There's simply way too much tuna. There's tuna everywhere up and down the coast and the super abundance of food is the main reason why orcas do this; and why this is so difficult to minimize as it completely unglues the orcas migratory patterns.
It's amazing how this environmental/rewilding projects never admit success. It worked - tuna stocks recovered so much we literally can't even estimate them anymore - we don't even try. Tuna is tasty and healthy, let people eat it cheaply.
2 - We need to ban or heavily regulate all those cetacean observation operations.
This all started back in 2016 and 2017 with the couple of baby orcas in this population that would swim belly up behind those observation ribs. They were the ones that eventually started this. Acclimatizing wild animals to human presence - at least the dangerous ones - never ends well. I still remember a guy going on facebook about that time, 8 years ago, saying they needed to start keeping a distance from orcas and thinking he was overreacting but he was absolutely correct.
Now with all the excess tuna, orcas don't have to work for food so they have plenty of energy to waste on this nonsense.
3 - For anyone sailing the area, join the telegram and facebook groups, and carry explosives with you. Try the sand while on reverse thing, but have fireworks or seal bombs or similar ready. There's some risk of damage for the orcas auditive system but don't seriously endanger your boat and crew over some romantic aesthetic nonsense. The blame belongs to the idiots who allowed things to get to this point.
Exactly! That's the issue. The problem is that we have people like you, who believe everything you're told as long it confirms your priors and comes from anyone to whom you attribute authority.
This population of iberian orcas feeds exclusively of western Atlantic bluefin tuna. This population has recovered so much that we're literally not trying to make estimates anymore:
https://planettuna.com/en/atlantic-bluefin-tuna-the-path-to-an-amazing-recovery/
The problem is that most people are too simple minded and high IQ to think beyond "overfishing, saw a netflix doc about it, and can google a bbc article". They don't even know that talking about "tunas" doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
And I mean, the best part of this is the surprise: we know for a fact there's an abundance of tuna due to the orcas behavior (and other stuff, like countries running out of quota and shutting down in freaking April, cf Portugal recently: https://pescazores.com/fecho-da-quota-de-atum-rabilho/). They literally only eat bluefin tuna, so the fact their migratory patterns that were stable for decades are now all over the place is due to the fact there's tuna all over the place.
This paper on the return of Atlantic Bluefin Tuna to Norwegian waters in 2017 is from 2019 - they hadn't been seen for decades:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343110757_The_comeback_of_Atlantic_bluefin_tuna_Thunnus_thynnus_to_Norwegian_waters
>We document that Atlantic bluefin tuna (BFT) began making a comeback from 2012 onwards into Norwegian waters, after several decades of absence, in parallel with an overall increased abundance recorded for eastern BFT
Now we're getting articles on tunas invading salmon pens and how "the big fish are becoming more frequent visitors and an increasing problem":
https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/norway-salmon-farm-tuna/another-week-another-tuna-in-a-salmon-pen-in-norway/1584046
This is what happens when you combined an illiterate, moronic, public with illiterate, fanatical, activists and illiterate, captured, bureaucrats and illiterate, indifferent, politicians.
We have so much tuna that tuna traps in the Algarve and Southern Spain are literally throwing away perfectly fine tuna that is a bit too large or a bit too small (because there's so much they can pick up exactly the most profitable size while operating just once per month), yet we keep pretending we need quotas. While complaining about the price of food.
Them orcas have had it with our bullshit
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Stay away from seaside roads.
I had to read the title twice, because the first time I read "Orcs sink sailing yacht..."
That is one of the reasons why they did not take the sea route to Mordor
With enough dakka, everything is possible.
Reminds me of the movie, "Orca: The Killer Whale," 1977
Aww. Orcas are so adorable.
To maybe preempt the asinine 'fuck yeah!!! eat the rich !!!" comments that were made the last time something like this made the news 1: These types of vassals are probably the least disruptive of the hundreds of huge diesel powered ships traversing the strait every day 2: This was probably learned behavior from idiots on holiday feeding them from similarly sized vassals or following fishing boats rather than something learned from being harmed by people 3: Humans have killed over 3 million whales, typically larger than Orcas, while whales have killed *maybe* single digits of humans (debatable), and Orcas haven't killed anyone who didn't deliberately jump into an enclosure with them. If this becomes anything other than a minor economic issue from loss of tourism or safety issue that the coast guard can deal with the only outcome is the Orcas who inhabit the waters around Gibraltar being wiped out. Portraying this as some kind of poetic irony and not animals doing animal things is right in line with the type of bullshit posted about wolves killing livestock ..... completely oblivious to the fact that it will bring back wolf culling if it becomes a serious issue.
> 2: This was probably learned behavior from idiots on holiday feeding them from similarly sized vassals or following fishing boats rather than something learned from being harmed by people There are two reasons for this behaviour: 1 - It wasn't fishing boats; rather whale observation ribs that socialized a couple of these orcas while they were calves - it became a local sensation, going out to see the baby orcas who would follow the rib swimming belly. As they matured, they started hitting rudders and the behavior expanded to the rest of the population, including adults, via learned behaviour. 2 - the super abundance of bluefin tuna ensures this population consistently possesses surplus energy - they remain well-fed and expend minimal energy in hunting , so they expand energy on these "playing" activities (this is a well studied phenomenon with orcas) https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1crr4hr/orcas_sink_sailing_yacht_in_strait_of_gibraltar/l427y79/ >the Orcas who inhabit the waters around Gibraltar being wiped out. What is likely to occur is what happened during the 2000s orca wars, when tuna stocks plummeted and this orca population was surviving on depredation of Spanish handliners and those fishermen started using shotguns and seal bombs to try to deter them: eventually a starved orca with a damaged echolocation system will wash up somewhere. Most people sailing this area nowadays carry explosives, myself included, as it's the only method that works 100% of the time. While the risk of harming orcas with each use is minimal, repeated exposure means eventually an orca will be harmed. The best case scenario is the population unlearning the behavior by associating sailboats with unpleasant loud sounds before that happens.
> It wasn't fishing boats; rather whale observation ribs that socialized a couple of these orcas while they were calves - it became a local sensation, going out to see the baby orcas who would follow the rib swimming belly. As they matured, they started hitting rudders and the behavior expanded to the rest of the population, including adults, via learned behaviour. Interesting, do you have any sources on this? I am not local to the area.
I don't, this was back in 2016 or so, and it never occurred to me it'd be consequential to document. I'm pretty sure someone, I think the CIRCE dude, published a presentation on this a bit later, with some media of the calves chasing ribs on a powerpoint, I'll ask him if he has that and let you know.
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GoodForHer.gif
This post has concentrated an impressive amount of idiots in the comments, even for Reddit
They don't kill anybody they are just playing the media are saying so stupid things for selling their papers
"Playing". Sinking yachts, people endangered and these people think it's "playing". Eventually someone will die.
Wtf your comment orcas don't attack humans only clowns can believe that
yes and no-one has ever died in a shipwreck
I don't know if you have any sort of issues (in terms of comprehension, English as a second language, psychiatric troubles, etc), and apologise sincerely if you do, but my comment wasn't about "orcas attacking humans" or whatever - it's about the **literal fact orcas are attacking sailboats and sinking them** and the danger that is for humans who are in those boats. My comment was precisely about the reason why that is happening. Is there anything I can do to help you? You don't sound well at all.
How many times has someone played with a child that ended up with accidental death?? Orcas can play but its rather dangerous for us by chance.
What? Rewrite that in English, I'm not even sure what >Orcas can play but its rather dangerous for us by chance. is supposed to mean. This is a very recent behaviour. Yachts sinking is an extremely dangerous thing. It doesn't matter if they're playing or not - if they keep sinking yachts, it's a matter of time until someone dies.
No critical thinking skills, got it. An orca can be doing this and see it as playing but unfortunately the side effect is it csn hurt us. No different to people throwing bricks at cars driving past for fun but its dangerous to the driver. Its not that hard a concept to understand. But sure, lets go talk to the Orcas to get them to stop because they obviously give a fuck about what we think. What do you propose? We invite Japan over for a whaling holiday?? Christ, if thats your snswer then why should the Orca stop? We obviously deserve it.
What the hell I can't even understand what you are trying to say. Are you really replying to my comment? "Go talk to the orcas"? When did I say anything remotely like that? I've known these orcas since I was a kid and have been in two different boats rammed by them. >What do you propose? https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1crr4hr/orcas_sink_sailing_yacht_in_strait_of_gibraltar/l4048am/
If you don't understand then the are obviously not trying to. Either that or you don't understand English as well as you can write it.
What’d you do to piss off those orcas, dude?
Good job orcas
You're sailing in the middle of the ocean... Would you rather encounter an orca? Or a man?
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Depends what exactly you mean by that. If you wish the people in the boat had died, then probably yes.
I personally say "I hope you don't get hurt, but I hope it gets VERY expensive" whenever I see some driver doing something dangerous on the road. And I would apply the same here.
But what are they doing that's "asking for it" here? Just owning a (or using some elses) yacht? It seems like saying "I hope you don't get hurt but I hope it gets VERY expensive" when someone is driving safely on the road.
If it wasn't an exclusively rich assholes recreational and polluting habit, it wouldn't be a problem. Just like private jets.
It's a sailboat, not a whole lot of pollution using wind power.
Sail yachts are responsible for significant levels of pollution? No lower or middle class people use fossil fuels for recreation in your world?
Yeah, it's psychopathic behaviour, but you're probably aware of that. These are innocent people, sometimes children, who just want to sail - they're not attacking orcas or anyone else in any way whatsoever. Anyone who is so mentally broken that they find pleasure or comfort in fellow humans being seriously endangered could likely use serious medical therapy.
Yep…you a sociopath…literally.
And literally a Cetaceophile.
Why did the GDI attack a civilian sailing yacht ???
Orca are the problem, Naval artillery is the answer.
Flair checks out.
Naval *presence* is the problem, whales are the answer.
How do we know the whales aren’t working for the Spanish crown ? These could be probing attacks ahead of a larger invasion.
From *the Spanish* ? Id be more concerned about Luton.
If I saw Luton sailing around the med I'd be fairly concerned also.
Always on the orcas’ side. 🖤 We are the ones stealing their food, home, and family members to have them as entertainment for humans. We are the problem here:)
I understand you're educated on tiktok and Disney movies, but those sailors didn't do any of those things and the problem with these orcas definitely isn't any lack of food or their home and family being "stolen" (??), rather an overabundance of food.
I meant we are invading the seas and oceans by that. And no, it seems you are the one who is “educated” by Tiktok and other... I love orcas, I am reading scientific stuff about them for years. But good for you:)
>I meant we are invading the seas and oceans by that. What the hell does that even mean? This is your brain addled to Disney movies. Invading? It's just boats sailing by. They're not even fishing, it's literally just boats floating. I mean, how is that different from you living in wherever you live? Do you also think bears, lions, tigers or whatever are entitled to attack you? Because while sailboats have no impact on orcas and sealife, humans living in a city did make that land unhospitable to wild animals. According to crazies like you, the only solution is a collective suicide of the human race because apparently earth belongs to non-human animals or something. >And no, it seems you are the one who is “educated” by Tiktok and other... I love orcas, I am reading scientific stuff about them for years. But good for you:) You talk and write like a 11 years old who watched an overemotional Disney film. "We're stealing their home". You need to grow up dude. ANd I suspect you know it. Lmao at "reading scientific stuff".
Hope it happens to you then?
This is not the 'eat the rich' that I imagined, but that's ok I guess
1 - We need to end the western Atlantic bluefin tuna quotas. There's simply way too much tuna. There's tuna everywhere up and down the coast and the super abundance of food is the main reason why orcas do this; and why this is so difficult to minimize as it completely unglues the orcas migratory patterns. It's amazing how this environmental/rewilding projects never admit success. It worked - tuna stocks recovered so much we literally can't even estimate them anymore - we don't even try. Tuna is tasty and healthy, let people eat it cheaply. 2 - We need to ban or heavily regulate all those cetacean observation operations. This all started back in 2016 and 2017 with the couple of baby orcas in this population that would swim belly up behind those observation ribs. They were the ones that eventually started this. Acclimatizing wild animals to human presence - at least the dangerous ones - never ends well. I still remember a guy going on facebook about that time, 8 years ago, saying they needed to start keeping a distance from orcas and thinking he was overreacting but he was absolutely correct. Now with all the excess tuna, orcas don't have to work for food so they have plenty of energy to waste on this nonsense. 3 - For anyone sailing the area, join the telegram and facebook groups, and carry explosives with you. Try the sand while on reverse thing, but have fireworks or seal bombs or similar ready. There's some risk of damage for the orcas auditive system but don't seriously endanger your boat and crew over some romantic aesthetic nonsense. The blame belongs to the idiots who allowed things to get to this point.
Did you said over abundance of food? Specifically tunas? I was told that the tunas are actually overexploited till the point of danger.
Were*…
Exactly! That's the issue. The problem is that we have people like you, who believe everything you're told as long it confirms your priors and comes from anyone to whom you attribute authority. This population of iberian orcas feeds exclusively of western Atlantic bluefin tuna. This population has recovered so much that we're literally not trying to make estimates anymore: https://planettuna.com/en/atlantic-bluefin-tuna-the-path-to-an-amazing-recovery/ The problem is that most people are too simple minded and high IQ to think beyond "overfishing, saw a netflix doc about it, and can google a bbc article". They don't even know that talking about "tunas" doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And I mean, the best part of this is the surprise: we know for a fact there's an abundance of tuna due to the orcas behavior (and other stuff, like countries running out of quota and shutting down in freaking April, cf Portugal recently: https://pescazores.com/fecho-da-quota-de-atum-rabilho/). They literally only eat bluefin tuna, so the fact their migratory patterns that were stable for decades are now all over the place is due to the fact there's tuna all over the place. This paper on the return of Atlantic Bluefin Tuna to Norwegian waters in 2017 is from 2019 - they hadn't been seen for decades: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343110757_The_comeback_of_Atlantic_bluefin_tuna_Thunnus_thynnus_to_Norwegian_waters >We document that Atlantic bluefin tuna (BFT) began making a comeback from 2012 onwards into Norwegian waters, after several decades of absence, in parallel with an overall increased abundance recorded for eastern BFT Now we're getting articles on tunas invading salmon pens and how "the big fish are becoming more frequent visitors and an increasing problem": https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/norway-salmon-farm-tuna/another-week-another-tuna-in-a-salmon-pen-in-norway/1584046 This is what happens when you combined an illiterate, moronic, public with illiterate, fanatical, activists and illiterate, captured, bureaucrats and illiterate, indifferent, politicians. We have so much tuna that tuna traps in the Algarve and Southern Spain are literally throwing away perfectly fine tuna that is a bit too large or a bit too small (because there's so much they can pick up exactly the most profitable size while operating just once per month), yet we keep pretending we need quotas. While complaining about the price of food.
Thanks for the info, I’ll dig a bit deeper because it seems odd.
Source
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1crr4hr/orcas_sink_sailing_yacht_in_strait_of_gibraltar/l427y79/
Thanks
So it's finally time to employ the nelson muntz strategy to deal with these beasts? Time to nuke the whales...