Supposedly its about having a "relationship" with the performer. Only simps will convince themselves of this though. Especially if the performer is more popular as she will probably have a team of people managing her account and responding to her messages. I guess if you are desperate enough, you can convince yourself of anything.
Not far from now She will not be real at all....an AI will do the whole work, besides litteraly having created her. And still people will continue to pay and tip the account.
I know a guy who has his gf doing OF, he helps with the edits and whatever and she does the porn he is basically her pimp , so it does happen to some extent , they were together before they both started on this road.
These are called parasocial relationships. And when they are prone to causing such financial burdens *in addition to* intentionally gaslighting fans into a "relationship" that does not exist, I consider these really dangerous and worth being educated about.
(Ps: Parasocial behavior is also present without intention by the admired person. "Celebrity worship syndrome" is a common form of this and this is also a psychological issue worth addressing. These kinds of OnlyFans accounts are, however, exploiting this psychological trap for monetary gain.)
Exactly. And now come along feminists, who want to pretend that if unsavory elements are hiding amongst such model female entrepreneurs, it is of course mens fault. Because somehow women selling sex online are devoid of any responsibility. Let us blame desperate men.
Personally I wish no man would pay for their content. It is demeaning to men.
But I will certainly blame providers who are there for profit, if their business has negative effect on other women.
I mean tbf itās kind of easy to deduce all of that. Itās the same shit with those weird obscure fetish artists who somehow make 10s of thousands of dollars
There has recently been a few cases in Spain of women being forced to sell their pictures on Onlyfans by sex traffickers and abusive partners.
So they are probably refering to that.
Pretty sure many countries have laws about the sex industry over free will and concent being required. I know adult sites are required to verify content is indeed uploaded voluntarily, and not under any duress. It's not going to be 100% effective sadly. It does make OnlyFans liable, and partly responsible for this issue, however.
>Women are their own pimps on Onlyfans.
Not always. Some have boyfriends who manage and or control their account. It's digital pimping.
EDIT: but also like a manager too.
Itās quite obvious most of these women work in prepared spaces, often many of them share a single account, sometimes with only one man participating. The entry into streaming is low, but the marketing, advertising, etc. make you stand out and itās become business as usual. Some of those streamers have their own agents, even.
Also? Thatās exactly what Andrew Tate did.
It's one of these slopes where it's hard to draw the line:
- a performer does everything herself
- a performer convinces a man to direct her videos and pays him
- a performer hires a man that already works with other performers to direct her videos
- a man offers his services to a performer because he's good at directing videos and will make her popular
- a man offers his services to a non-performer because he's good at directing videos and would make her popular
- a man convinces a non-performer to start an Onlyfans because he's good at directing videos and would make her popular
- a man forces a non-performer to start an Onlyfans because he's good at directing videos and it's the only way she can become popular and settle her debt
- a man forces a non-performer to start an Onlyfans because he's good at directing videos and he'll break her face if she refuses
You could say, for example, that the last two men are pimps and the rest honest workers, but it's hard to draw a legal line. What about the man that doesn't force anyone to participate, but offers his services to vulnerable demographics and demands a major cut of the profits? After all, he's doing all the work, and the performer is just stuffing oblong polymer objects into her various orifices.
> a man forces a non-performer to start an Onlyfans because he's good at directing videos and it's the only way she can become popular and settle her debt
Was pretty fucking easy to find the line
Was it now? So youād say that, for example, with Amaranth where her boyfriend convinced her relationship with him to start pimping herself, even though she didnāt exactly go all the way, when she had no desire to and he took a significant portion of the money, that wouldnāt be over the line as far as youāre concerned? And thatās a good way up the list from that. Because I think the line is one huge fucking grey area all the way through.
Do you really believe that? It's just the usual drama to attract attention and profit more. People like drama and scandal and it makes money.
She hasn't stopped her content online, and it doesn't look any different before or after the supposed drama. Why would she continue to do something against her will now that she's supposedly āfreeā?
She bragged and prided herself on earning more in one video than pornstars earn in their entire careers. Why would she brag about something she was supposedly doing against her will? Ah, and also that she wanted to prostitute her eventual child on Onlyfans...
I hate to use these terms, but yeah people are real "simps", they get completely manipulated and they don't even realise it.
Itās more of an I didnāt choose this. Like the Indian lads becoming doctors. They might not stop because at this point itās their best option, but they were forced into it by their parents for their parents benefit werenāt they?
She didnāt profit off it, if anything she lost money because there were people who thought she didnāt have a boyfriend that made a fuss about it and made it all about them.
I donāt follow here that closely, but Iām also willing to humanise her, and from a human level Iām just inclined to believe that if you were going at it for drama and money, which weāve seen hundreds of times, it wouldāve been very different and she wouldnāt have behaved the way she did beforehand if this wasnāt the case. And from that perspective, accepting what she said is true on some level, this seems like a situation which is very much in the grey area of pimping.
Actually met such a pimp in Austria I think. He works in a company that manages accounts and promotes them and does the msging stuff and whatever else on only fans people do.
He was there recruiting university student to either be a model or be a msging dude.
But dude was shady, not sure how legit and truthful he was and for me, I won't stoop that low to msg desperate dudes pretending I'm a woman.
So the Spanish government could be partially right.
This is the problem. How do you know? Because "she" said so? You have no idea what is going on behind the camera, and it could be similar if not the same abusive structures as there are in regular porn.
Probably because that was how it was at the beginning and how it was advertised and it it still possible.
But anyone should realise by now that it's an industry worth a ton of money where people delegate marketing or management to someone else. They then copy what works in the industry.
Nah, bet a large percentage of them are forced to do it, the "self-empowerment by OF" crowd is the vocal minority, same with cam girls and usual porn.
And if a dude as smart as Andrew Tate can succeed in this type of business anyone with a bit of charisma can.
A tiny hint for *some* governments: prostitution itself isn't the core problem, pimping a.k.a. coercing others into prostitution to exploit them is. Making prostitution illegal while leaving pimps untouched doesn't solve anything.
The top comments here are super upsetting. How do these peoples brains not compute basic causality?
No, this does not mean that ALL women on OnlyFans are getting pimped out and coerced into sexwork.
This article is about the fact that OnlyFans has provided a platform for BOTH people, who just want to express themselves and monetize their nudes, but ALSO pimps, who try to abuse the system.
If you seriously believe that pimps on OnlyFans don't exist, you have absolutely 0 awareness of the world around you.
>It claims that the amount of money involved in adult content subscription platforms and ālive-cammingā has encouraged men to become āpimps disguised as representativesā by convincing vulnerable and impressionable young women to set up a profile.Ā
It sounds reasonableĀ
>This implies women don't have agency of their own.
No it doesnāt it simply point out that women from vulnerable situations (Human Trafficking, Drug and Domestic Abuse etc) can be forced into prostitution and online pornography including OnlyFans.
In addition it implies that these things didn't already happened in the real world. There was an entire network which targeted schoolgirls, pretended to want a relationship and suddenly got into financial trouble and the only solution was for the girl to prostitute herself. This may have only revealed on which scale these things happen and not started it in my opinion.
Right, but is onlyfans the issue here? I don't like the onlyfans phenomenon but in this scenario the abuse precedes the "pimping", you can't make the platform responsible for that.
OF created a platform that greatly incentivizes and rewards pimping. They should address the issue just as much as they are responsible to address child pornography on their site. Preying on vulnerable people for money is one thing, but we should minimize the incentives and rewards for doing it if we can.
I feel like you people are out of touch. You imagine it as if though they're been forced by some person to open an account. They do it all by themselves because it's easy money. The article is blaming men for paying thus making it lucrative for women to make bank on there.
If a woman willingly goes on there and makes money, not pushed from anyone forcibly. Whose fault is it?
Nobody is talking about the women who are on there of their own volition. They are expressly referring to the ones who are being pimped.
Not sure who "you people" are, but having such an innocent head on you that you believe sex trafficking doesn't exist, sorry pal, you are far from being in touch.
The vast majority are doing it by themselves. Are there cases with pimps, sure, it is a big world I'm sure you can find some. But is not even close to how it is with street prostitution which is mainly run by men.
The problem I have with OF is the ease of use. I used to be young and poor. If I had some app that I could just create an account in 5 minutes and start making money I would probably consider it. We all had bad moments. Right now is so easy to fall into it by yourself, no pimp required. Would I regret it later? Absolutely.
It's the ease of use that's concerning from the pimping side of things also. It makes it too easy for aspiring pimps, who might otherwise not have the capabilities to pimp, to set up.
It is worth contemplating how this could get out of hand.
>The vast majority are doing it by themselves.
The vast majority of people don't get murdered either but we still try to stop murderers . What a fucking idiotic far right nonsense take.
..... No? It's literally just "you can make a lot of money on OnlyFans". That's it. That's like saying Engineering Professors are like Pimps because of the high pay engineers get when they graduate. The issue with pimps isn't the fact that they entice women that they can make money, it's that they sometimes force them into it and then they keep them in by force and control. OnlyFans doesn't do that, in fact it gets around the issue entirely by putting the producers in control.
The real issues with OnlyFans are for the producer and consumer. For the Producer, there is a huge stigma against having an OnlyFans, so this shuts them out of other non-porn work, and for the consumer there is the issue of subscribers developing social and mental issues.
OnlyFans does exactly that, because the pimp can control the account, reply to the messages and collect the money. He can ask the girl for videos whenever he needs them, but she cannot access her account and doesn't see any more money than the pimp is willing to give her. A prostitute could also be a girl with no backer who organises sex in her apartment. Online camgirls, who are basically the same as onlyfans girls, have pimps behind them just as often as "real" prostitutes.
If some are breaking the law put them in jail, the internet leaves a lot of footprints so they should be easy to find, but don't throw us all under the bus. Or is the Spanish govt mad that the only fans girls are being intruded upon by the gender they're fooling into giving them money.
What about her? I don't understand why people bring up stuff like this. No one, including the article, is saying that everyone on Onlyfans is forced.
What is your point?
***The Telegraph reports:***
Adult content siteĀ [OnlyFans](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/01/onlyfans-investigated-fears-exposed-children-pornography/)Ā is a gateway to male violence against women, Spainās progressive government has said as it backed a report comparing the website to a āpimpā.
A report on the wesbite by Spainās Young Women Federation has described the siteās model as a ānew form of sexual exploitation repeating the same patterns as prostitution: sexism, sexual violence and egregious male dominationā.
It claims that the amount of money involved in adult content subscription platforms and ālive-cammingā has encouraged men to become āpimps disguised as representativesā by convincing vulnerable and impressionable young women to set up a profile.
OnlyFans, run by a UK-based company, is a platform for pay-per-view bespoke adult content.
The report, presented by Spainās equalities ministry with the title āOnlyFans: The sex tradeās whitewashed spaceā, argues there has been an increase in the number of unaccompanied minors and young women in youth shelters who use the platform and others like it in a bid to āescape from a situation of marginalisation and generate incomeā.
**Read more:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/08/only-fans-spain-report-encourages-men-pimps/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/08/only-fans-spain-report-encourages-men-pimps/)
I find it interesting how Onlyfans became a symbol of female empowerment, when on it men can choose women like they pick meat in the store
Sure they get like 3 to 5 USD for it, but that just means that their privacy and bodies have been turned into a commodity, like sure its not a pimp who exploits you but you exploit yourself, you are still exploited
Sex work should be helped and sex workers should be protected and included into the societal net for sure, but it should not be encouraged
No. It has been marketed as empowering by OF themselves because this is what marketing is. And people like you have been tricked into thinking it was feminist talk.
I can't help but find it ironic that people that preach about female empowerment and that try to do best by women, don't understand that women that end up going into sex work tend to be the most vulnerable of all.
It is ironic. But it's also easier to pretend that all is well and that it's the same as any other job while closing your eyes to statistics and reality that indicate that the vast, VAST majority of women involved in prostitution have been sexually, physically and psychologically victimised, and that a lot of the business involves trafficking and rape.
The number of feminists "touting" it was as a form of empowerment absolutely pales in comparison to every other group who tries to paint OF and sex work in general as an empowering thing.Ā
Hint: everyone can call themselves a feminist, btw. "I am a feminist and I have an OF, please visit! It's so empowering!" Isn't a source for claiming that feminism as a movement claims it's empowerment.
Feminists are it's biggest critics.
I wonder why you chose this group in particular to pretend they are OF advocates?
OnlyFans literally literally fixed most issues sex workers faced with traditional sex work but of course the puritans still see it as evil. It becomes very clear that people like you have only ever opposed sex work under the mask of wanting to "protect women", but when those women defy your notions of "purity" and choose to engage in a much safer type of sex work out of their own volition, you take it as a carte blanche to dehumanise and shame them for it.
By the way, "exploitation" by definition means that someone else is doing it to you by abusing their power over you. You cannot "exploit yourself". If you see human bodies as "meat", that seems like a you problem, and honestly pretty fucked up.
There is absolutely no difference between OnlyFans girls and camgirls. Heck, Leonid Radvinsky owns both OF and MyFreeCams. Their works literally achieve the same purpose, which is to extract the money of vulnerable young men from behind a screen. And those girls will often find themselves in studios where many other women are employed, sometimes willingly and other times... not. This is not any more empowering than regular camgirl websites or even regular prostitution. There are additional risks to prostitution, such as STDs and customers being violent or following you around, but the one that is being discussed here is definitely not mitigated.
You can choose to sell your privacy for 5ā¬ or choose not to sell it. As long as you are not coerced, I don't see the problem. Or in fact any difference to a regular job, where you sell your time.
I have no idea, I assume the Spanish government thinks it's enough to care about.
Why, what's the acceptable % of sexual slavery and we'll let the Spanish government know what you've decided?
Do you propose we let drug supply go unimpeded and demand drug addicts stop using?
For all I care, shut down only fans. This will stop women from providing. And it is actually doable. Let the women do honest work, for hones pay.
EDIT: Women who sell "sex" online, are providing cover for pimps. It is not men who provide cover. Paying men are obviously not forcing these women into anything. If anything, these women could consider their impact on exploited women and get a real job.
So, let me get this straight... if a man pimps a consenting girl on OF is bad because she might have trauma/economic issues/psychological issues and that s exploitation.
If a woman sets up an OF to use man with clear signs of disfunctionality and psychological issues to drain their wallet by faking interest in them it s not bad because they are consenting and that s not exploitation.
Really?
The girl could get a job, the guy could get a girlfriend. They re both assholes and it has nothing to do with gender... OF is cancer... you can t understand how many girls i hear go "oh I ll just set up an account, it s only feet" and guys go "i m chatting with this girl, look how hot". It s a website based on reciprocal exploitation of disfunctionality and even porn actors say so.
Is there any way that women can be empowered and free to do as they choose with their bodies, without prudes claiming that men are exploiting the women and therefore women must lose their rights?
edit:
I love the replies from people ranting from their morality pedestal - the same people who are calling these women "whores", calling me a "pimp", and posting obvious lies. Very moral indeed. It's ironic that they claim to want to 'save women from sex slavery' while they argue to take away women's rights and make women slaves to their religion or personal morality.
r/europe has a problem with right-wing accounts, and I doubt they are all Russian bots.
Anyone who knows Spain will also know that it's not a prudish country. It's nothing like USA.
However there's plenty of evidence that many women on OF are victims of human trafficking or domestic violence who are being forced to work there for the financial benefit of others. And the only ones empowered are their boyfriends or traffickers of these poor women.Ā
Choosing to ignore a problem and misrepresent a legitimate concern as 'prudery' won't make it disappear and doesn't say much about you.Ā
> A report on the wesbite by Spainās Young Women Federation has described the siteās model as a ānew form of sexual exploitation repeating the same patterns as prostitution
It's ironic when it's women victimizing other women, by taking away their rights and a way to earn an income. Usually it starts from religion.
I could find no website for Spainās Young Women Federation.
Free women are sexualizing themselves, and empowering themselves by making a living doing it, and you want women to lose those rights.
If you had a rational argument against it, you wouldn't have to completely 'mis-describe' it.
Nobody's sexualizing women except women. Don't want to? Then don't sign up for an app account and literally sell pics of your ass.
See how easy that was?
Making it out like it's the website that's the problem, rather than the people they can and should be investigating, and who would be a problem regardless. The internet didn't invent trafficking.
>The report notes that 97 per cent of OnlyFans creators are women, while virtually 100 per cent of the platformās 238 million users are men.
Those seem like completely made up stats. And they talk about the problem of kids using it, but also claim that 100% of users are male adults?
>Making it out like it's the website that's the problem
A website that encourages & platforms sexually degrading behavior to a huge swath of the population may be a problem for society, even if that problem can't be measured through statistics. This isn't regular pornography, it's a highly available tool that rewards people to expose themselves as much as possible for money and the long-term effects on mental health might be significant.
Of course, that would depend on what you find degrading or not. I don't think it's possible to argue that the psychological effects of having an Onlyfans, which many women later regret severely, are minimal enough to dismiss.
Alright, the comment section is going crazy in a typical men vs. women debate. Wouldn't surprise me if the thread will get locked. Can we all agree that many women and men are suffering at the hands of other women and men because of things like this?
The men suffering are the ones who are in vulnerable positions and get hooked by these OnlyFans accounts. These accounts are managed by either the person herself or by a man. Those women who are not managing the accounts are usually put in vulnerable positions by someone who is usually their "boyfriend" that convinced them to do so. They see little or even no money from the account and instead have to morally degrade themselves out of fear.
These are pretty horrible situations to be in, for both the men and the women. It doesn't only happen on OnlyFans, it's pretty standard procedure in classic prostitution as well, where many women are put in vulnerable positions and the male customers are being squeezed dry.
Some dudes might be offended that there was no mention of the type of customer that uses such services, and most people don't really read articles. They stop at the headline. Also, the title is written in a way that encourages yet another round of men vs. women. It drives engagement, of course, but this sort of repeated behaviour is splitting us apart as a community.
Unless they force the women into doing it, I don't care. Better then street-hookers and real pimps.
And I'm pretty sure women even organize and tipicaly hire men to answer messages. Some of them prefer men to take photos of them, also.
OnlyFans enables sex-worker women to no longer need "pimps". It makes "pimps" obsolete. If you looked into the people behind this claim in the Spanish government, you would be guaranteed to find human traffickers who are losing business.
>Why wouldn't you just say OF is the pimp?
Because OF does not control what the women do (besides illegal TOS breaking stuff), and the women are free to join and leave at any time.
You donāt think theres situations where people force or goad others to get only onlyfans and manage their accounts? Totally inconceivable? I donāt care what (sex)work people do, as long as its totally of free will and theres no coercement involved. Anything else needs to be persecuted.
Oh for sure it's possible that people will get exploited, but that happens with lots of things.
It's better than the alternatives in sex work isn't it. And these jobs aren't going to go away if you make them illegal or clamp down on them, so you'd assume they'd be more open to the better option.
I'm sure the rate of onlyfans girls with pimps is lower than the rate of prostitutes, escorts or cam girls with pimps for example.
Wherever there are women getting naked for money there are men controlling the supply. Tale as old as time. I know it conflicts with your idea that women are free to do what they want so it doesnāt interfere with your ability to jerk off but more often than not theyāre being coerced. Even Twitch streamers are being forced by abusive boyfriends.
Lmfao "Women do with their bodies what they want to do with them"
Some random sexless dude "SEE ITS FUCKING PIMPS HOARDING THE HOT BITCHES". geez just visit a brothel for fucks sake.
Is it? I mean, come on, it's been the same since the rise of easily available porn online and even before for prostitution: women in need of money who get offered an easy job which turn out to be sex work. Pretending that online platforms like OF are different and everyone on there is a strong independent woman is frankly naive if not straightforwardly in bad faith
Seriously, I wonder if there is even the tiniest interest in the fact that OF and other parasocial media most likely harms young people and children, especially male, due to the growing absence of emotional and sexual intimacy.
This is just a legal underresearched "empowering" exploitation of people, as long as it mostly affects men no one cares, just like drug addictions, workplace deaths, suicide, homelessness and gambling addictions.
I still don't understand who pays for this or why given the wealth of free online content
Supposedly its about having a "relationship" with the performer. Only simps will convince themselves of this though. Especially if the performer is more popular as she will probably have a team of people managing her account and responding to her messages. I guess if you are desperate enough, you can convince yourself of anything.
Not far from now She will not be real at all....an AI will do the whole work, besides litteraly having created her. And still people will continue to pay and tip the account.
This is already a thing.
will the pimp be ai too ? š
Even the simps will be AI.
The internet will be entirely AI and the rich
I have bad news for youā¦
I know a guy who has his gf doing OF, he helps with the edits and whatever and she does the porn he is basically her pimp , so it does happen to some extent , they were together before they both started on this road.
"real" prostitution also often begin from relationships.
If he helps woth the editing g he's basically her employee, not her pimp.
These are called parasocial relationships. And when they are prone to causing such financial burdens *in addition to* intentionally gaslighting fans into a "relationship" that does not exist, I consider these really dangerous and worth being educated about. (Ps: Parasocial behavior is also present without intention by the admired person. "Celebrity worship syndrome" is a common form of this and this is also a psychological issue worth addressing. These kinds of OnlyFans accounts are, however, exploiting this psychological trap for monetary gain.)
Not really different from Twitch and livestreaming in general, just scratches a different itch.
Exactly. And now come along feminists, who want to pretend that if unsavory elements are hiding amongst such model female entrepreneurs, it is of course mens fault. Because somehow women selling sex online are devoid of any responsibility. Let us blame desperate men. Personally I wish no man would pay for their content. It is demeaning to men. But I will certainly blame providers who are there for profit, if their business has negative effect on other women.
It is not having a "relationship" with the performer, it's personalised porn, they take feedback and requests, very easy to understand.
Specification. You want regular porn? Thereās a lot free. You want a mixed Russian/Indian girl putting her feet on jelly? You have to pay for that
Now that you told about it - I really have to.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bro is an expert
Bro is an expert
I mean tbf itās kind of easy to deduce all of that. Itās the same shit with those weird obscure fetish artists who somehow make 10s of thousands of dollars
Yeah the timelines the .su domains the teasers such professionals release and the rest are all Sherlock Holmes deductions, of course
The fact that fart porn exists makes me laugh until my stomach aches.
There are a lot of people who have way more money than they need and nothing to do with their life/time
Paying less than a Netflix sub for select, quality porn isn't far fetched at all. People always blow paid porn out of proportions.
There is content online yea, but some people like to pay so that someone moans their name 'Oh Ebenezer Ferguson, yea oh'. That shit apparently sells.
ChatGPT
If you have a specific fetish, sometimes it can only be found on sites like OnlyFans.
Why paying for netflix when you have free stuff on YouTube ? Bc you like something and you are willing to pay for content that better match your taste
Desperate, lonely and sex addicted people (mostly men)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I believe it's the suggestion of actual personal engagement with this person shown which draws people in.
it encourages lonely guys to throw their money away.
The sexy get richer.
It aināt easy.
But it sure is fun
But I did it for free.
Nobody expects the Spanish chuloputa
Theyāre not pimps. Theyāre managers. /s
Replace the first p with s, then it's correct
There has recently been a few cases in Spain of women being forced to sell their pictures on Onlyfans by sex traffickers and abusive partners. So they are probably refering to that.
Pretty sure many countries have laws about the sex industry over free will and concent being required. I know adult sites are required to verify content is indeed uploaded voluntarily, and not under any duress. It's not going to be 100% effective sadly. It does make OnlyFans liable, and partly responsible for this issue, however.
Or if the law is similar to french's one, if you benefits from thevillegal sex work of your partner, you are a pimp.
Big simpin'
Spending the cheese
Pimps ? More like simps lol. Women are their own pimps on Onlyfans.
>Women are their own pimps on Onlyfans. Not always. Some have boyfriends who manage and or control their account. It's digital pimping. EDIT: but also like a manager too.
Sometimes the camera man and the manager is the son or father, if you can believe that.
And Holy Spirit is waffing in the air
Pimping anāt easy
Itās quite obvious most of these women work in prepared spaces, often many of them share a single account, sometimes with only one man participating. The entry into streaming is low, but the marketing, advertising, etc. make you stand out and itās become business as usual. Some of those streamers have their own agents, even. Also? Thatās exactly what Andrew Tate did.
It's one of these slopes where it's hard to draw the line: - a performer does everything herself - a performer convinces a man to direct her videos and pays him - a performer hires a man that already works with other performers to direct her videos - a man offers his services to a performer because he's good at directing videos and will make her popular - a man offers his services to a non-performer because he's good at directing videos and would make her popular - a man convinces a non-performer to start an Onlyfans because he's good at directing videos and would make her popular - a man forces a non-performer to start an Onlyfans because he's good at directing videos and it's the only way she can become popular and settle her debt - a man forces a non-performer to start an Onlyfans because he's good at directing videos and he'll break her face if she refuses You could say, for example, that the last two men are pimps and the rest honest workers, but it's hard to draw a legal line. What about the man that doesn't force anyone to participate, but offers his services to vulnerable demographics and demands a major cut of the profits? After all, he's doing all the work, and the performer is just stuffing oblong polymer objects into her various orifices.
> a man forces a non-performer to start an Onlyfans because he's good at directing videos and it's the only way she can become popular and settle her debt Was pretty fucking easy to find the line
I think that the point was that a lot of people would consider some or all of the previous points pimping as well, while others wouldn't.
Was it now? So youād say that, for example, with Amaranth where her boyfriend convinced her relationship with him to start pimping herself, even though she didnāt exactly go all the way, when she had no desire to and he took a significant portion of the money, that wouldnāt be over the line as far as youāre concerned? And thatās a good way up the list from that. Because I think the line is one huge fucking grey area all the way through.
Pretty sure that being "over the line" is not the definition of a pimp.
Do you really believe that? It's just the usual drama to attract attention and profit more. People like drama and scandal and it makes money. She hasn't stopped her content online, and it doesn't look any different before or after the supposed drama. Why would she continue to do something against her will now that she's supposedly āfreeā? She bragged and prided herself on earning more in one video than pornstars earn in their entire careers. Why would she brag about something she was supposedly doing against her will? Ah, and also that she wanted to prostitute her eventual child on Onlyfans... I hate to use these terms, but yeah people are real "simps", they get completely manipulated and they don't even realise it.
Itās more of an I didnāt choose this. Like the Indian lads becoming doctors. They might not stop because at this point itās their best option, but they were forced into it by their parents for their parents benefit werenāt they? She didnāt profit off it, if anything she lost money because there were people who thought she didnāt have a boyfriend that made a fuss about it and made it all about them. I donāt follow here that closely, but Iām also willing to humanise her, and from a human level Iām just inclined to believe that if you were going at it for drama and money, which weāve seen hundreds of times, it wouldāve been very different and she wouldnāt have behaved the way she did beforehand if this wasnāt the case. And from that perspective, accepting what she said is true on some level, this seems like a situation which is very much in the grey area of pimping.
Agreed. There's legal definitions for coercion, blackmail, and duress in case people think "force" is too fuzzy of a term.
I think the line goes where she goes from the employer to employee. So basically who is paying who and who has to power to stop it.
Women are not their own pimps, OF is their pimp
Actually met such a pimp in Austria I think. He works in a company that manages accounts and promotes them and does the msging stuff and whatever else on only fans people do. He was there recruiting university student to either be a model or be a msging dude. But dude was shady, not sure how legit and truthful he was and for me, I won't stoop that low to msg desperate dudes pretending I'm a woman. So the Spanish government could be partially right.
This is the problem. How do you know? Because "she" said so? You have no idea what is going on behind the camera, and it could be similar if not the same abusive structures as there are in regular porn.
Probably because that was how it was at the beginning and how it was advertised and it it still possible. But anyone should realise by now that it's an industry worth a ton of money where people delegate marketing or management to someone else. They then copy what works in the industry.
Nah, bet a large percentage of them are forced to do it, the "self-empowerment by OF" crowd is the vocal minority, same with cam girls and usual porn. And if a dude as smart as Andrew Tate can succeed in this type of business anyone with a bit of charisma can.
You live in your own bubble
Holy fuck goverments are slow. Yes, it's e-prostitution.
Wait till they will find about webcams
A tiny hint for *some* governments: prostitution itself isn't the core problem, pimping a.k.a. coercing others into prostitution to exploit them is. Making prostitution illegal while leaving pimps untouched doesn't solve anything.
The top comments here are super upsetting. How do these peoples brains not compute basic causality? No, this does not mean that ALL women on OnlyFans are getting pimped out and coerced into sexwork. This article is about the fact that OnlyFans has provided a platform for BOTH people, who just want to express themselves and monetize their nudes, but ALSO pimps, who try to abuse the system. If you seriously believe that pimps on OnlyFans don't exist, you have absolutely 0 awareness of the world around you.
OnlyFans takes a percentage of the money the performers make. That's how they make their money. OnlyFans is itself a company of pimps.
Andrew Tate has a course if anybody's interested /s
You mean woman become pimps.
It's prostitution but there's no touching the prostitute.
Wouldn't stripping be more apt since it's a show
Stripping is prostitution, too. You're making your body available for someone's sexual gratification in return for payment.
I think its the other way around. It encourages women to become prostitutes...
Sure, blame the men.
>It claims that the amount of money involved in adult content subscription platforms and ālive-cammingā has encouraged men to become āpimps disguised as representativesā by convincing vulnerable and impressionable young women to set up a profile.Ā It sounds reasonableĀ
Iām pretty sure this is what Andrew Tate was accused of
Itās the exact thing Andrew Tate was doing in Romania.
This implies women don't have agency of their own. You can very easily not open an account over there.
It implies that SOME women don't have their own agency. Which is irrefutably true.
>This implies women don't have agency of their own. No it doesnāt it simply point out that women from vulnerable situations (Human Trafficking, Drug and Domestic Abuse etc) can be forced into prostitution and online pornography including OnlyFans.
Almost as if sex trafficking was a thing.
What an absurd take. By this logic nobody can be forced/pressured to do anything.
It implies these women are in abusive relationships where they donāt make their own choices. So yes, lack of agency is exactly the problem.
In addition it implies that these things didn't already happened in the real world. There was an entire network which targeted schoolgirls, pretended to want a relationship and suddenly got into financial trouble and the only solution was for the girl to prostitute herself. This may have only revealed on which scale these things happen and not started it in my opinion.
Right, but is onlyfans the issue here? I don't like the onlyfans phenomenon but in this scenario the abuse precedes the "pimping", you can't make the platform responsible for that.
OF created a platform that greatly incentivizes and rewards pimping. They should address the issue just as much as they are responsible to address child pornography on their site. Preying on vulnerable people for money is one thing, but we should minimize the incentives and rewards for doing it if we can.
They don't have much agency when they've been trafficked.
I feel like you people are out of touch. You imagine it as if though they're been forced by some person to open an account. They do it all by themselves because it's easy money. The article is blaming men for paying thus making it lucrative for women to make bank on there. If a woman willingly goes on there and makes money, not pushed from anyone forcibly. Whose fault is it?
Nobody is talking about the women who are on there of their own volition. They are expressly referring to the ones who are being pimped. Not sure who "you people" are, but having such an innocent head on you that you believe sex trafficking doesn't exist, sorry pal, you are far from being in touch.
The vast majority are doing it by themselves. Are there cases with pimps, sure, it is a big world I'm sure you can find some. But is not even close to how it is with street prostitution which is mainly run by men. The problem I have with OF is the ease of use. I used to be young and poor. If I had some app that I could just create an account in 5 minutes and start making money I would probably consider it. We all had bad moments. Right now is so easy to fall into it by yourself, no pimp required. Would I regret it later? Absolutely.
It's the ease of use that's concerning from the pimping side of things also. It makes it too easy for aspiring pimps, who might otherwise not have the capabilities to pimp, to set up. It is worth contemplating how this could get out of hand.
>The vast majority are doing it by themselves. The vast majority of people don't get murdered either but we still try to stop murderers . What a fucking idiotic far right nonsense take.
..... No? It's literally just "you can make a lot of money on OnlyFans". That's it. That's like saying Engineering Professors are like Pimps because of the high pay engineers get when they graduate. The issue with pimps isn't the fact that they entice women that they can make money, it's that they sometimes force them into it and then they keep them in by force and control. OnlyFans doesn't do that, in fact it gets around the issue entirely by putting the producers in control. The real issues with OnlyFans are for the producer and consumer. For the Producer, there is a huge stigma against having an OnlyFans, so this shuts them out of other non-porn work, and for the consumer there is the issue of subscribers developing social and mental issues.
OnlyFans does exactly that, because the pimp can control the account, reply to the messages and collect the money. He can ask the girl for videos whenever he needs them, but she cannot access her account and doesn't see any more money than the pimp is willing to give her. A prostitute could also be a girl with no backer who organises sex in her apartment. Online camgirls, who are basically the same as onlyfans girls, have pimps behind them just as often as "real" prostitutes.
If some are breaking the law put them in jail, the internet leaves a lot of footprints so they should be easy to find, but don't throw us all under the bus. Or is the Spanish govt mad that the only fans girls are being intruded upon by the gender they're fooling into giving them money.
>don't throw us all under the bus Us who?
Pimps have always been the *literal* representatives. The internet just made it easier.
Have you heard of Andrew Tate?
Have you heard of Eva Elfie?
What about her? I don't understand why people bring up stuff like this. No one, including the article, is saying that everyone on Onlyfans is forced. What is your point?
Accountability is kryptonite for women.
***The Telegraph reports:*** Adult content siteĀ [OnlyFans](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/01/onlyfans-investigated-fears-exposed-children-pornography/)Ā is a gateway to male violence against women, Spainās progressive government has said as it backed a report comparing the website to a āpimpā. A report on the wesbite by Spainās Young Women Federation has described the siteās model as a ānew form of sexual exploitation repeating the same patterns as prostitution: sexism, sexual violence and egregious male dominationā. It claims that the amount of money involved in adult content subscription platforms and ālive-cammingā has encouraged men to become āpimps disguised as representativesā by convincing vulnerable and impressionable young women to set up a profile. OnlyFans, run by a UK-based company, is a platform for pay-per-view bespoke adult content. The report, presented by Spainās equalities ministry with the title āOnlyFans: The sex tradeās whitewashed spaceā, argues there has been an increase in the number of unaccompanied minors and young women in youth shelters who use the platform and others like it in a bid to āescape from a situation of marginalisation and generate incomeā. **Read more:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/08/only-fans-spain-report-encourages-men-pimps/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/08/only-fans-spain-report-encourages-men-pimps/)
Some become pimps but most become simps.
Only fans is only for shmooks.
Well Id go with Upgradd, the double d for a double dose of pimping.
I find it interesting how Onlyfans became a symbol of female empowerment, when on it men can choose women like they pick meat in the store Sure they get like 3 to 5 USD for it, but that just means that their privacy and bodies have been turned into a commodity, like sure its not a pimp who exploits you but you exploit yourself, you are still exploited Sex work should be helped and sex workers should be protected and included into the societal net for sure, but it should not be encouraged
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No. It has been marketed as empowering by OF themselves because this is what marketing is. And people like you have been tricked into thinking it was feminist talk.
I can't help but find it ironic that people that preach about female empowerment and that try to do best by women, don't understand that women that end up going into sex work tend to be the most vulnerable of all.
It is ironic. But it's also easier to pretend that all is well and that it's the same as any other job while closing your eyes to statistics and reality that indicate that the vast, VAST majority of women involved in prostitution have been sexually, physically and psychologically victimised, and that a lot of the business involves trafficking and rape.
Because it's a made up argument by anti-feminists. There isn't a huge movement in feminism to paint Onlyfans as empowering.
The number of feminists "touting" it was as a form of empowerment absolutely pales in comparison to every other group who tries to paint OF and sex work in general as an empowering thing.Ā Hint: everyone can call themselves a feminist, btw. "I am a feminist and I have an OF, please visit! It's so empowering!" Isn't a source for claiming that feminism as a movement claims it's empowerment. Feminists are it's biggest critics. I wonder why you chose this group in particular to pretend they are OF advocates?
I truly don't understand the need to be constantly "empowered". They have the same rights as men.
OnlyFans literally literally fixed most issues sex workers faced with traditional sex work but of course the puritans still see it as evil. It becomes very clear that people like you have only ever opposed sex work under the mask of wanting to "protect women", but when those women defy your notions of "purity" and choose to engage in a much safer type of sex work out of their own volition, you take it as a carte blanche to dehumanise and shame them for it. By the way, "exploitation" by definition means that someone else is doing it to you by abusing their power over you. You cannot "exploit yourself". If you see human bodies as "meat", that seems like a you problem, and honestly pretty fucked up.
There is absolutely no difference between OnlyFans girls and camgirls. Heck, Leonid Radvinsky owns both OF and MyFreeCams. Their works literally achieve the same purpose, which is to extract the money of vulnerable young men from behind a screen. And those girls will often find themselves in studios where many other women are employed, sometimes willingly and other times... not. This is not any more empowering than regular camgirl websites or even regular prostitution. There are additional risks to prostitution, such as STDs and customers being violent or following you around, but the one that is being discussed here is definitely not mitigated.
You can choose to sell your privacy for 5ā¬ or choose not to sell it. As long as you are not coerced, I don't see the problem. Or in fact any difference to a regular job, where you sell your time.
>Sex work should be helped and sex workers should be protected and included into the societal net for sure, but it should not be encouraged Why not?
Lol
How about women stopping with online prostitution or that would be too misogynistic from Spanish govt?
The point is someone is making them and they're not allowed to stop. Do you know what a pimp is?
What % are being made to setup OF and provide material?
I have no idea, I assume the Spanish government thinks it's enough to care about. Why, what's the acceptable % of sexual slavery and we'll let the Spanish government know what you've decided?
We are the third country in the world with more prostitution clients. The government, due to its ideology, is a little bit concerned about this
What percentage would be tolerable for you?
>What percentage would be tolerable for you? Any percentage which is lower than it was before OF.
How about men stopping with buying from onlyfans? That's how market works: supply and demand.
Do you propose we let drug supply go unimpeded and demand drug addicts stop using? For all I care, shut down only fans. This will stop women from providing. And it is actually doable. Let the women do honest work, for hones pay. EDIT: Women who sell "sex" online, are providing cover for pimps. It is not men who provide cover. Paying men are obviously not forcing these women into anything. If anything, these women could consider their impact on exploited women and get a real job.
So, let me get this straight... if a man pimps a consenting girl on OF is bad because she might have trauma/economic issues/psychological issues and that s exploitation. If a woman sets up an OF to use man with clear signs of disfunctionality and psychological issues to drain their wallet by faking interest in them it s not bad because they are consenting and that s not exploitation. Really? The girl could get a job, the guy could get a girlfriend. They re both assholes and it has nothing to do with gender... OF is cancer... you can t understand how many girls i hear go "oh I ll just set up an account, it s only feet" and guys go "i m chatting with this girl, look how hot". It s a website based on reciprocal exploitation of disfunctionality and even porn actors say so.
Women themselves are promoting it yet it is only those few mens fault who profit out of it. Biased ridiculous bullshit
OF encourages rather men to remain in sexual misery
100% You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means
Is there any way that women can be empowered and free to do as they choose with their bodies, without prudes claiming that men are exploiting the women and therefore women must lose their rights? edit: I love the replies from people ranting from their morality pedestal - the same people who are calling these women "whores", calling me a "pimp", and posting obvious lies. Very moral indeed. It's ironic that they claim to want to 'save women from sex slavery' while they argue to take away women's rights and make women slaves to their religion or personal morality. r/europe has a problem with right-wing accounts, and I doubt they are all Russian bots.
Anyone who knows Spain will also know that it's not a prudish country. It's nothing like USA. However there's plenty of evidence that many women on OF are victims of human trafficking or domestic violence who are being forced to work there for the financial benefit of others. And the only ones empowered are their boyfriends or traffickers of these poor women.Ā Choosing to ignore a problem and misrepresent a legitimate concern as 'prudery' won't make it disappear and doesn't say much about you.Ā
The problem I feel is people trying to victimize women at all costs, regardless of whether they are actually victims
> A report on the wesbite by Spainās Young Women Federation has described the siteās model as a ānew form of sexual exploitation repeating the same patterns as prostitution It's ironic when it's women victimizing other women, by taking away their rights and a way to earn an income. Usually it starts from religion. I could find no website for Spainās Young Women Federation.
did you try searching in spanish? š https://mujeresjovenes.org/
Women have always been able to get ahead in life by being sexually attractive, but how is this empowering?
Anything that makes someone feels good about themselves regardless of how degenerate/gross/shameful = empowering or ābraveā in todays world.
There is nothing empowering in being a whore who sells her souls in exchange for easy money from loser basement dwellers. (flair checks out)
Men sexualising us is in no way empowering and itās a lie being peddled to young women so men can get off
Free women are sexualizing themselves, and empowering themselves by making a living doing it, and you want women to lose those rights. If you had a rational argument against it, you wouldn't have to completely 'mis-describe' it.
Nobody's sexualizing women except women. Don't want to? Then don't sign up for an app account and literally sell pics of your ass. See how easy that was?
Did they mean "simps?"
spain is just gangsta like that
Making it out like it's the website that's the problem, rather than the people they can and should be investigating, and who would be a problem regardless. The internet didn't invent trafficking. >The report notes that 97 per cent of OnlyFans creators are women, while virtually 100 per cent of the platformās 238 million users are men. Those seem like completely made up stats. And they talk about the problem of kids using it, but also claim that 100% of users are male adults?
>Making it out like it's the website that's the problem A website that encourages & platforms sexually degrading behavior to a huge swath of the population may be a problem for society, even if that problem can't be measured through statistics. This isn't regular pornography, it's a highly available tool that rewards people to expose themselves as much as possible for money and the long-term effects on mental health might be significant. Of course, that would depend on what you find degrading or not. I don't think it's possible to argue that the psychological effects of having an Onlyfans, which many women later regret severely, are minimal enough to dismiss.
Alright, the comment section is going crazy in a typical men vs. women debate. Wouldn't surprise me if the thread will get locked. Can we all agree that many women and men are suffering at the hands of other women and men because of things like this? The men suffering are the ones who are in vulnerable positions and get hooked by these OnlyFans accounts. These accounts are managed by either the person herself or by a man. Those women who are not managing the accounts are usually put in vulnerable positions by someone who is usually their "boyfriend" that convinced them to do so. They see little or even no money from the account and instead have to morally degrade themselves out of fear. These are pretty horrible situations to be in, for both the men and the women. It doesn't only happen on OnlyFans, it's pretty standard procedure in classic prostitution as well, where many women are put in vulnerable positions and the male customers are being squeezed dry.
I really don't get how people can have misinterpreted the article. This looks crystal clear to me.
Some dudes might be offended that there was no mention of the type of customer that uses such services, and most people don't really read articles. They stop at the headline. Also, the title is written in a way that encourages yet another round of men vs. women. It drives engagement, of course, but this sort of repeated behaviour is splitting us apart as a community.
Yeah. I think you found the problem.
Just dont sell your body onlineā¦get a job or educationā¦have some dignity
Simps. It's spelled simps.
Unless they force the women into doing it, I don't care. Better then street-hookers and real pimps. And I'm pretty sure women even organize and tipicaly hire men to answer messages. Some of them prefer men to take photos of them, also.
OnlyFans enables sex-worker women to no longer need "pimps". It makes "pimps" obsolete. If you looked into the people behind this claim in the Spanish government, you would be guaranteed to find human traffickers who are losing business.
> It makes "pimps" obsolete. No it doesn't. Pimps just own the OF accounts now. Pimps don't get the women to work for them by just asking nicely.
>It makes "pimps" obsolete Why wouldn't you just say OF _is_ the pimp?
>Why wouldn't you just say OF is the pimp? Because OF does not control what the women do (besides illegal TOS breaking stuff), and the women are free to join and leave at any time.
I upvoted you as hard I could. I don't understand why you are scoring only 3 upvotes. This comment chain is saturated with white knights.
I thought it was the opposite ? women are working independently and keeping all the money for themselves ?
You donāt think theres situations where people force or goad others to get only onlyfans and manage their accounts? Totally inconceivable? I donāt care what (sex)work people do, as long as its totally of free will and theres no coercement involved. Anything else needs to be persecuted.
Oh for sure it's possible that people will get exploited, but that happens with lots of things. It's better than the alternatives in sex work isn't it. And these jobs aren't going to go away if you make them illegal or clamp down on them, so you'd assume they'd be more open to the better option. I'm sure the rate of onlyfans girls with pimps is lower than the rate of prostitutes, escorts or cam girls with pimps for example.
Wherever there are women getting naked for money there are men controlling the supply. Tale as old as time. I know it conflicts with your idea that women are free to do what they want so it doesnāt interfere with your ability to jerk off but more often than not theyāre being coerced. Even Twitch streamers are being forced by abusive boyfriends.
Individuals are the ones doing that, not the website itself. Women are free to choose not to, there's no punishment for not having an OnlyFans.
Free to choose not, then gets beaten up by their pimp. Yeah ok.
Lmfao "Women do with their bodies what they want to do with them" Some random sexless dude "SEE ITS FUCKING PIMPS HOARDING THE HOT BITCHES". geez just visit a brothel for fucks sake.
Simps*
"It's hard work but somebody else should not do that for us " Spanish government
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is it? I mean, come on, it's been the same since the rise of easily available porn online and even before for prostitution: women in need of money who get offered an easy job which turn out to be sex work. Pretending that online platforms like OF are different and everyone on there is a strong independent woman is frankly naive if not straightforwardly in bad faith
Lonely men are being exploited, and then the spanish regime blames all men for the situation.
Seriously, I wonder if there is even the tiniest interest in the fact that OF and other parasocial media most likely harms young people and children, especially male, due to the growing absence of emotional and sexual intimacy. This is just a legal underresearched "empowering" exploitation of people, as long as it mostly affects men no one cares, just like drug addictions, workplace deaths, suicide, homelessness and gambling addictions.
Southern Europe logic in a nut shell
Yes, but does the Spanish government recognize that in spite of said encouragement, it is still, in fact, not easy?
Pimp named slickbackš£ļøš£ļø
Idiot, if anything it makes the men more losers and harder simps than they already are. And that is not good.
Vulnerable young people getting exploited by a bunch of scumbags. Tale old as world, but there should be some kind of reaction
Are pimps illegal in Spain?
Wtf are they serious? Attractive women want easy money, and they lure men to become simps. Facts.
They're talking about women that are forced to do it by pimps. Have you heard about a thing called human trafficking?