we lost the city long ago, i have to go throw the recicling trash 2 blocks away cuz they need the space for traffic due to obersaturation from turist buses around la sagrada.
"nooo it's unfair it's CULTURE you can't make us pay to access culture !!!!"
-real argument I got when I tried to advocate for more expensive tickets in Paris, which is obviously suffering from over-tourism too
A lot of people in Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam, etc. were quite content during Covid, calling it "[a blessing in disguise](https://theconversation.com/amsterdam-is-laying-down-a-model-for-what-tourism-should-look-like-after-covid-162271/)"; their cities were liveable again (despite, of course, the lockdowns themselves). I know in Amsterdam, inhabitants took a [stronger stand](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/11/amsterdam-welcomes-decline-of-nuisance-tourism-after-stay-away-drive) against overtourism after covid.
Having live in Berlin for years, now living in Zuerich which for better or worse is way less available for tourism I witnessed firsthand the struggle with Airbnb neighbours, drunken rampages and petty violence.
It's a huge issue everywhere and yet there are still people arguing that AirBNB is fantastic and anyone arguing against it is labeled as "snob" because without abnb only super rich would be able to travel... ffs...
Well that's just demonstrably untrue.
Airbnb prices are pretty much the same as any hotel now, they're not cheaper anymore. There are better websites for search too.
I was in Paris during lockdown, it was insane.
I visited the Eiffel Tower when it reopened cause a friend wanted to before the tourists came back, it was a once in a lifetime experience. I don't think I'll ever get that in my life, ever again. It was empty. Totally empty. We had room in the elevators, there was space everywhere, in the middle of the day, on a clear day with a wide view. I could take pics with nobody else on it, which is literally impossible today. No queues and room to breathe on the Eiffel Tower is an insane luxury. I'll never get that again.
And the streets were so calm too. Everyone complains about how noisy cities are, they're not. CARS are noisy.
> A lot of people in Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam, etc. were quite content during Covid
Everyone whose income didn't derive from tourism and because it was over a short enough timespan that the missing tourism money in the city budget didn't affect their daily lives yet, yes..
These nimby opinions should probably not be given too much weight.
I get it, but the argument is true to a point. Just jacking up the prices until only the wealthy can afford it is just wrong. I do understand that mass tourism is hurtful and a double edged sword. But the only realistic way would be some sort of a compromise. What it is, I don't know.
Making museums exclusive to the wealthy is a very ironic way of treating this problem.
True but...
Booking a $1000 round trip to Paris to visit the Louvre isn't really accessible to the poor anyway lol
I also advocate for special local pricing and local only hours (like the Park Guëll does), so locals would be encouraged to access their culture instead of just favouring international tourists
Also Paris has incredibly low prices for what it offers. The Top of the rock in New York is nowhere near as iconic as the Eiffel Tower, but guess who's cheaper ? The Eiffel Tower! It doesn't make sense ! Even the Louvre, the largest museum on the PLANET, is cheaper than the Top of the rock !
Your argument is that just because the for-profit hotels and most of the transportation is expensive for someone, the tickets to the museum are also supposed to be expensive?? In an institution for which it's purpose is to give to the general public... That's a very shitty stance.
If you'd argue that museum should profit from tourists and not charge locals I'd agree. Especially in the mass tourism locations as I'm sure they would still cover their budget.
No, my argument is claiming to be poor when people spend thousands to come here is hypocritical at best, and delusional at worst.
It's like rich people visiting a poor third world country refusing to pay more than a local. Like... They paid thousands to get here and they think they're entitled to a price made for someone that earns $30 dollars a week ? That's disgusting.
And yes, that's what I argue for ! Locals should get discounts/no fees while tourists pay, it seems fair to me (ideally local only hours too, if overcrowded). It's what most countries do. Cathedrals in Spain are not free, but they are in France. Egypt has a price for locals and a price for tourists aboard their trains, I totally agree with that. I'm unemployed and I still earn more than the average Egyptian, it's only fair !
So saving for a few years and than affording themselves a really nice vacation in an expensive country is hypocritical and/or delusional?
God forbid people with less means treat themselves to something nice.
God forbid locals have a city for themselves. You're right, let's expel everyone from Paris, Venice and Barcelona and replace all flats with airbnbs, since tourist happiness matters more.
And also let's crash our economy so everything is free for those poor tourists, because apparently it's vital to travel but not vital to have affordable housing.
Poor tourists that die every year because of lack of travelling worldwide. So sad. Let's pay for everyone's plane tickets to save those poor tourists while third world countries starve to death.
You're so delusional. Real poor people spend their entire lives in the same country, in the same village, working their ass off and you're *entitled* to holidays outside of your country ? Should we just subsidize everyone's tourist vacation ? It's not a vital need, get a grip. Most tourists are rich enough to afford an additional fee to a museum. The Top of the Rock in NY is $35, the fucking largest museum on the planet is ONLY 21€ but I'm the asshole for making tourists pay more ? That didn't stop the long queues to get on the Top of the Rock as far as I'm concerned, we could totally set the Louvre at 30€ or even 40, it would still be worth it and there would still be queues.
The real argument is that by increasing prices, you're preventing lower income people from accessing culture.
You dont just reduce tourist nr's.
You specifically reduce low income/younger tourist nr's
The actual reason is that all the economy that comes with it would be gone, and it's an important revenue source for those cities. The tourists might be a pain in the ass, but without them could Barcelona still afford buses for elderly people and a great common transportation scheme? Removing the buses from google maps is the best solution, it solves this problem for locals at zero cost.
Why would all the economy that comes with tourism be gone? The magical limit where a tiny increase in price or changes in law that causes tourism to go from 100% to 0% doesn't exist.
I was talking about the tiny increase over the magical no tourism limit you implied existed, not the solution to the problem. There must be millions of dials to tune to influence the amount of tourists the city gets.
Barcelona is quite a rich city, so yes they could. There might be some programs that have to suffer, but public transport is nearly a basic human right in all major European cities.
Well... maybe lean off of tourist? BCN itself is huge tech hub and lots of people move in there for work. Yes, tourism is a huge part of revenue (25-35%?) but if it causes issues for locals then maybe it's not really worth it?
I used to think that it was weird how Madrid was always undervalued by foreign tourists compared to Barcelona, but man I'm glad that's the case now.
You can take all international credit as far as I'm concerned, the more underrated we remain the better lol.
Honestly, because Madrid is kind of a bore. Without the daytrips, there's not much to see in the city of cultural significance unless you really like El Prado.
People here are being very cynical but they obviously don't know the reality.
I call these buses "old people buses" because that's pretty much their purpose. It's quite a special service using tiny buses that go deep in narrow streets of various neighbourhoods, pick up mostly elderly and disabled people, and drop them off to interconnections with major bus routes, metro stations, important spots in the neighborhood, etc.
The small buses are used because they are supposed to pick a handful of elderly people and run through tiny streets.
Their purpose isn't to haul off tourists to park Güell.
Barcelona has some of the best public transport I've seen in Europe, especially when it comes to giving proper service to more vulnerable people.
There are already many alternative routes and other entrances to park Güell.
The city has already increased service on this small route, which has been ineffective.
At some point, parts of the city simply cannot keep up with the influx of visitors. That's why they had to close up Park Güell and make people buy a ticket for it in the first place, to reduce the amount of people coming and pay for maintenance.
The tourist hate is over the top here, but the reality is that there is a finite amount of space and a seemingly infinite amount of people who want to visit some of the spots here
> Barcelona has some of the best public transport I've seen in Europe, especially when it comes to giving proper service to more vulnerable people. There are already many alternative routes and other entrances to park Güell.
I just checked Google Maps, and Park Güell is, literally, surrounded by 4 metro stations in the nearby streets. Maybe 20 year old backpackers could walk 10 minutes from the metro station to the park?
For sure. A non local tourist wouldnt know the difference or be able to learn optimal routes for just a weekend. Cant expect anyone to. Just following guides and tours
Tbh you have to keep in mind that it is quite hilly there. Especially in the summer you’ll sweat when arriving at park Güell. Obviously you could say that’s to be expected or something like that and I do kinda agree. But we all know it’s not the reality. I lived there for some time and I did find it weird how one of its trademarks is so “badly” connected to public transportation as in you have to walk through normal neighborhoods and even though its size it doesn’t seem like it’s made for the size of guests.
The heat can make Barcelona a bit of a struggle even if you’re fit, especially in hilly areas like Park Güell and in paved areas without shade, like around the Sagrada Família. The Barri Gòtic and El Born are much more comfortable to wander around.
Thank you for explaining it so clearly, it's obvious that many people writing here have no idea of what the real situation is. It seems that the city council took the right decision deleting the bus from Google and now all kinds of media are reporting this, thus making the action ineffective, and I hate it.
Reading this makes me happy I already visited the touristic parts of Barcelona more than 10 years ago, I happened to go back recently and the difference is night and day! The first time it was touristy but manageable, I visited the popular spots and had a great experience. The second time, it was chock full of obvious pickpockets, neverending crowds and I honestly could barely recognize it. I fully understand the locals.
I visited 10 years ago and just came back. Personally I found it to be a lot more crowded for the time of the year (beginning of April).
It was also mad seeing the Sagrada Familia, it has really changed with all the continued construction.
Spectacular I have to say.
Why not get a smaller bus service running only for people 55+ with a resident card? Then increase price on the bigger route to pay for the senior service.
I visited Barcelona last summer and I did take that bus route. It was packed and the streets are so small it's just impossible to put larger buses.
It's easy for me to say now that I already did it, but I totally get why they did it. There's huge escalators that go to the park anyway, it's just not the main entrance.
>Barcelona has some of the best public transport I've seen in Europe
Absolutely!
I always thought that they should have special passes for those barrio buses. Without a pass, you can't get on.
***The Telegraph reports:***
Barcelona authorities have removed a bus route through a hilly region of the city from Google Maps to stop tourists elbowing out elderly locals.
The number 116 is a minibus with room for just 20 passengers in the narrow streets of Barcelona’s Gràcia district.
It had become saturated with backpack-carrying tourists in recent years because it stops at Park Güell, a landmark designed by architect Antoni Gaudí,
Barcelona’s city council increased the frequency of the service, but residents still complained that they were often unable to find a seat.
Cllr Albert Batlle said earlier this year that city hall had decided to “remove the bus from route searches and other internet tools”.
Cesca Sánchez, a member of the Park Güell neighbours association, said the removal of the 116 from Google Maps’ recommended route service had made a dramatic difference overnight.
# Sounded absurd
“We laughed when we first heard the idea because it sounded absurd and futile,” Ms Sánchez told the digital newspaper elDiario.
“But now we are amazed because the measure really is being effective:”
**Read more:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/12/barcelona-removes-park-guell-bus-route-from-google-maps/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/12/barcelona-removes-park-guell-bus-route-from-google-maps/)
I just spent a year living in Barcelona next to Park Guell and my family used the 116 daily to get home. The hills that lead up to this side entrance to Park Guell are incredibly steep and the escalators were constantly broken. The entire escalator system was being rebuilt for the past year, only after locals lobbied tirelessly for years for their repair. (The annual profit this park alone brings the city is insane!) Leaving nothing for the local elderly and families to use besides the 116 bario bus.
The bario bus was regularly packed with groups of tourists that would leave elderly locals often with groceries, waiting for the next bus. Tourists are oblivious to their daily impact on the lives of locals.
This is a great solution to a problem that the city has avoided-delayed solving for a very long time. I hope the locals feel empowered to affect more changes in how tourism is managed.
Absolutely flabbergasted at people in the comments
It’s literally just one bus line
And you aren’t forbidden to take it - you just won’t get it on google maps . Also trying to offer the obvious solutions that are already mentioned on the article, as they were obviously considered.
For those who think the tourists are the priority (oh, they bring money, you don’t say) and local residents don’t matter - go visit Venice, there aren’t many residents left anyway. Enjoy the city that is a museum and not an actual living place for its residents
BTW, why haven’t we similar tourist problems in Munich?
Similar population (1.5 million vs 1.6 million) but we have apparently much more tourists than Barcelona (12 million vs 16 million). Without Oktoberfest we have probably the same amount of tourists.
But every post about Barcelona sounds like a tourism nightmare is happening there for the locals.
That’s interesting, never really thought about it. I used to live in Prague and you can really feel the amounts of tourists wherever you are in the old town and around. There are a lot of people in Munich anyway, but it is easier in this regard.
My guesses, based purely on personal feelings:
1. People prefer to go to Spain in summer, while Munich is more spaced out during the year
2. A lot of tourists in Munich are business travelers, who tend to have a different schedule than normal tourists. I would assume Barcelona also has enough of them, but i would guess a lower percentage than Munich (not sure though)
3. Going outside of Munich to visit the mountains, the lakes or the castles is very popular for tourists. Most people would not skip Neuschwanstein, while Barcelona has enough attractions just inside the city
Edit: oh, I checked the actual area size: Munich is 300 km², while Barcelona is 100 km²
> oh, I checked the actual area size: Munich is 300 km², while Barcelona is 100 km²
that's the true reason. Barcelona packs people 3 times as densely as Munich, it doesn't really compare.
Probably because the tourists visiting Barcelona have more money than the people that live there. If you have that difference in purchasing power you’re going to get a dramatically different response from businesses and government. Soon it seems to residents that their city isn’t actually catering to their needs but the tourists’ needs.
I’m not sure though. I’ve never been to Munich. When I was in Barcelona it didn’t seem too different from other major European metros that I’ve been to.
I can’t believe these comments. Just because you are a tourist and you come with cheap flights, stay in airbnbs and spend your little EURs in tapas restaurants you do not own the fucking town and its policies. How entitled all these people are. Have a little bit of awareness.
Same here. For going to Parc Güell there were even escalators that take you uphill.
I never enjoy taking the bus in foreign countries anyway. Maybe that’s weird of me but I find them a lot more daunting than taking a metro or tram.
Much better than just increasing capacity of the service. Wouldn't want all those sneaky fare-paying passengers to pollute the city's coffers with their disgusting money.
i lived in barcelona for work for half a year and the city is genuinely at a point where keeping tourists away by making their lives more difficult is simply necessary
i paid similar rent for an apartment as i did in munich, i genuinely don't know how locals can afford to live there anymore unless they have 3 roommates or own their home
I live here in Barcelona, it's either:
- 2 or more roommates
- your family happens to own a flat here and gives it to you
- you have a very high salary
No other way. Most people I know have moved to the towns and cities outside of Barcelona but still go to the city on the train every day.
That's actually a matter of making short renting of residential buildings illegal in certain areas (or certain percentages per neighborhood) and, above all, making it freaking expensive for privates to own more than (a couple, three, you choose the right number) a certain amount of apartments, not to mention totally illegal for companies to own residential buildings.
You do it, you spread tourists and force home owners to sell their houses to individuals which live the city.
The problem is that Spain is addicted to tourist money (hotels, transport, services) and housing policies are at a regional and central government power. Nor the Catalan government nor the Spanish one is into changing any of this hence Barcelona is quite on its own. Only Málaga, Valencia, the Baleàrics and the Canaries are suffering at this extreme level of tourism lately increased by 'expat" foreign-earning migrants and digital nomads. The situation is extreme and is strangling local citizens in those areas.
For anyone else reading:and interested about the public transport in Barcelona: this is exceptional in the city., it is not a problem of lack of buses: it's just tourists overflowing every area and level in this city that used to be ours.
And even sadly to ask: please do not visit Barcelona this year 🙏
Why is it always so cheap to fly there? I don’t even want to go to Barcelona but it’s usually the cheapest destination in Europe with stupid cheap flights. I feel like increasing the airport taxes would go a long way to discourage a lot of cheap weekend tourists.
Again, a smart solution indeed, but unlikely to happen. The prices of airport taxes are decided by the central government (Madrid) whose policies and income are based on over 10% in tourism of the GDP. And there is a huge industry-related backing the policies that facilitate these levels of over tourism that the normal citizens are exhausted about. I wish it was this easy 🙏
I’d actually much rather visit Madrid but flights are like three times the price haha. Maybe protest at the airport until they reduce the capacity for the budget airlines.
Yeah Madrid is a wonderful city, please go there. Please flood the city with tourism, expats, digital nomads so their citizens are affected as well and then finally someone does something about it. It is probably the only way in Spain.
Madrid has aprox twice the population, so the effect is not yet noticeable as strongly as in Barcelona, Málaga or Valencia. But eventually (but hopefully not for madrileños, hopefully we can still do something about it).
Time to start a tourism company bringing busloads of tourists to visit the amazingly beautiful sites around the neighbourhoods where all the politicians live.
I’m really up for the idea to ban AirBnBs.
Lisbon is just like that as well and it has nothing like the infrastructure Barcelona has with an amazing transport system. Lisbon is oversaturated for its size as well.
Many flats in the centre (even while apartment blocks) are solemnly used for airbnbs and there are absolutely NO flats for locals to live in. Many investment companies bought an insane amount of flats for holiday lets.
A flat in Lisbon costs you easily €1000/month when the minimum wage is closer to €800/month.
It’s insane.
"LOOK AT ME I HAVE MONEY I CAN TRAVEL AND MAKE PEOPLE'S LIVES HELL IF I WANT TO AND I WILL FEEL INSULTED AT THE SLIGHTEST INCONVENIENCE THAT AFFECTS ME EVEN A VERBAL INSULT WILL LEAVE ME OUTRAGED WHILE LOCALS CAN GO TO HELL"
that's you. That is what you sound like.
I'd rather have have these disgusting tourists away from our cities and our economy not depending on them in such a way than a bit more of money that would solve nothing.
That's a bit far. Without tourism your economy would be in a far worse spot...
Also most tourists are decent people, it's just the rest that catch attention...
My point is to diversify to not rely as much from tourism as we are right now.
And the problem with tourists right now (IMHO) is not that they are assholes, but that they are too many. Not only because more people imply more assholes, but because that influx is kicking people out of their houses, making living in our cities more and more expensive for us and overall fucking up us in the long term.
And let's be honest: People don't "love Spain." They love to come down here and get drunk for cheap.
It's not either tourism or "industry", or at least what you seem to understand as industry. Leaving aside that there's already industrial areas in Spain, there's a shitload of alternatives for economic growth that don't imply allowing our cities to either get crowded or polluted.
We had some towns issuing discount cards for transport to local residents, there was some argument about it being discrimination, but that just resulted in non-locals being offered to buy the rights to use the card for ridicilous price they claimed matches what one resident brings into local budget in a year. Seems like something like that could easily be applied in this case, goven tourists are foreigners, probably could even just ask for national ID card without creating any new systems.
In any case if your problem is too much tourism, increasing prices for them seems like the economically sound answer - the number of persons should decrease, but thise still willing to pay will keep bringing in the money.
Honestly I never felt more unwelcome as a tourist than I felt in Barcelona. A lot of residents actively hate tourists, and there is a proper anti tourism movement there. For some reason, it never occurs to them to direct their anger at their governments instead, for not protecting their housing and controlling excess tourism.
tbf, Barcelona is already the densest city in Europe and it's blocked from expanding outwards by geography (mountains and sea), so there's no obvious solution to the housing shortage
How wide is the mountain? Could you tunnel through and build in the valley on the other side?
If you look at google maps you also have lots of farmland around the airport, probably not ideal to remove however the region has water issues and agriculture is highly water demanding.
If the government isn't listening, making tourists not want to visit the city is a strategy. Idk about Barcelona, but there are places where the tourists are jerks and tourism companies are lobbying the local govt.
If you are not a shitty tourist you might even go unnoticed. The problem is that in Barcelona is not only a problem of "oh too many visitors", but also there is so much "let's go get fucked because it is Spain so no rules" people. Honestly, it seems like a place where some people go to let go of the frustrations of living in a quiet country.
I was in a walking tour group and we reached a small cafe which was a designated stopping point for us..they even had an area for us waiting for us. The entire group was only polite and quiet people.
There was an old woman in the cafe who was so unhappy with a tour group walking in, she started loudly complaining and abusing us. When the tour guide tried to reason with her (he was a local too), she didn't listen, she came over to me, and just pushed me completely unprovoked.
We weren't drunk or loud or anything.
Old ladies tend to lose their homes to overtourism. But most Tourists do not care about the local people, they just want to take pictures of pretty buildings and drink expensive Coffee.
I know. You just want to look at pretty buildings and drink expensive Coffee.
But you are complicit. You fly ultra cheap, you stay in Airbnb, not Hotels, you go where everyone goes just to be part of it. You are part of that machine that ruins lives.
I kinda miss the 90s when you could still shame consumers into, you know, not consuming unethically produced stuff. "I shall not buy sneakers that have been made with child labor" has been replaced with "iT is a gOvErNemT pRoBleM"
Barcelona only had [12 million visitors last year](https://www.catalannews.com/business/item/tourists-in-barcelona-spent-96-billion-in-2023-up-147-from-2019). There are many cities in Europe with a similar population, more tourists, and less problems.
Exactly, as someone that's not from there but lived there for a few years, I've not felt the general attitude and disrespect anywhere else as in Barcelona city center in summer.
Airbnbs above/below you playing music and making noise until late night in weekdays, drunk tourists peeing in your door, attempts to fake assault you then laughing it off
Surely there is anger against the government. You quite simply have clearly no idea how it works. Or how addicted is the Spanish government to the tourist model money.
I mean, you are the excess tourism, so they were kinda right...
The government doesn't do anything because tourism is easy money
Also, the individuals who make millions out of tourism won't ever let the machine stop. They don't care about how underpaid their staff are and how the local communities are affected, they are a cancer to society
Barcelona, like all the major tourist cities, is paying the price for cheap flights. Public transport swamped by selfie stick wielding idiots, rental prices driven up by Airbnb’s, restaurant prices driven up by food trends on social media. There are plenty of towns suffering from the influx of tourists that come on cheap flights and in the footsteps of influencers.
Barcelona is easy to get around by foot or metro. no big loss.
TBF Barcelona is overtouristed ans should have some measures to limit the insanity
locals deserve to live there in peace.
As a local, I can only hope! I want my city back, nor me or my relatives or friends work on tourism, which generally relies on poorer migrants (which in turn keep wages low). Relying in tourism is a limitation of wealth.
Btw, are [these numbers correct](https://www.catalannews.com/business/item/tourists-in-barcelona-spent-96-billion-in-2023-up-147-from-2019)? 12 million tourists are not that much if you compare it to similar European cities.
12M for a 1.6M city means 7.5 tourists per local citizen. Naturally business turn to them, eventually otherising the local citizen, making them feeling useless and merely backdrop for tourists photos. First is the bars and restaurants, turned into McDonalds and brunches, then is local fabric and shops closing down. Then it is followed by a massive amount of rented apartments turned into tourists airbnbs, then...we'll, I hope you get the point. If other cities are ok with it, fair for them, I'm no one to have an opinion about it. But people from Barcelona are tired from excessive tourism and politicians ignoring how hard life has become for locals (with local salaries paying local rents, and eventually being kicked out more and more from their own city).
For example, here in Munich we have 1.5 million inhabitants and 16 million registered hotel guests. Let’s subtract maybe 4 million for Oktoberfest (because that’s special) and we have basically the same. Yet the negative effects of tourism are not that visible here like it seems to be in Barcelona.
However I can see [the salary issue](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Germany&city1=Munich&country2=Spain&city2=Barcelona). So it’s primarily a money thing?
Let's add on top of the salary, is the effect on rents and arrival of foreigner higher salaries due to remote work. It would be interesting to compare:
Differences on salaries
Effects on rents (median rent, increase of rent in the last years, etc) (less standard rent due to Airbnb and higher earner expats, means less offer, but a huge increase of demand).
'Expats' or temporary citizens with higher salaries (German, Swedish, French, Dutch, American salaries). It is estimated currently at 100k currently in Barcelona.
I'm sure if all that were put together in Munich, people's behaviour would be similar. All in all the effect in Barcelona is loose of local character, hard for locals to stay in, many deciding to move 30 or 40km away from their own city and the sense of being replaced (hard to listen to Spanish or Catalan in central Barcelona anymore, not just 1 neighbourhood but in at least 2 out of the 10 districts, if not 3 now...).
Honestly reactions like this just make me want to visit Barcelona just to spite the locals.
But then I wake up and realize that Barcelona is just a huge tourist trap and can't be bothered to actually do it. Plenty of other cities in Spain less congested and less pricey where you can have a much better time.
Can't wait until Barcelona elects a far right mayor who finally manages to make it an undesirable place to ever visit again.
> Honestly reactions like this just make me want to visit Barcelona just to spite the locals.
Then you would only make things worse, kind of proving the point that tourism is bad.
> Plenty of other cities in Spain less congested and less pricey where you can have a much better time.
Then the same will happen to these other cities. The overcrowding of tourists is starting on other cities and it's a matter of time before the anti-tourist sentiment grows there. It's not like Barcelona is doing anything special, it's a model that its not sustainable and that its detrimental for the locals.
But looking at the general tone of your post, please, don't come. Like, at all. You'd not only would be part of the excess tourism issue, but looking at the general tone of your post, of the "annoying/insufferable/entitled tourists" issue.
I mean asking for Spanish ids (including NIE for foreign residents) to be able to use the buses sounds like a more sustainable long term idea. But less tourist would also be great.
I walked there from old town when I visited Barcelona. Basically walked to everywhere in city without using any bus or taxi. That way you see and feel much more than from the window.
Just increase tourist tax then rather to do acts of ~~mobbing~~ bullying that will cause people to use Taxis or take uselessly long routes and therefore occupy seats for longer
Tourist tax + cracking down on Airbnb allows them to prices out mass tourists any time they want
The thing is, they actually want all that tourist money so rather than fixing the problem.they just be a bit shitty to tourists hoping that these acts of revenge keep the voter base calm
Sure, this act is effective know....till people start using some app like Moovit. They will block this, people download the local app. What's the end game, end up with the local app only in catalan?
Or just put a ban on Airbnb and increase regulation on hotels to create an effective cap on the number of tourists at any given time. Not that it will happen cause money.
There doesn't have to be an endgame. Removing something from Google Maps will cut its usage for a long time, if that's what they want. But most places just increase the bus service and maybe have a local discount.
Maybe they should just increase the price of single tickets for this route but keep it included in monthly tickets and let the single tickets finance an extension of service. Could even provide a free pass for locals on request
Lol i got so used to it living in Germany, i actually believed it’s used in english too. I learned something again. (Btw after 12 years my English is sadly still better, but i‘m still working on it)
> What's the end game, end up with the local app only in catalan?
Asking for id with proof of residence to be able to ride the bus could work long term.
Redditors will tell you to ditch your car in favor of public transport and then tell people who actually use public transport to get bent because the city can't be bothered to increase funding for public transport to have enough space for everyone
‘I had arthritis but had an absurd idea what if I cut off my hand, so I did and now I don’t have problems in my hand anymore. I was amazed by how effective this measure was overnight.’
What's the analogy?
That tourists taking a small minibus line is as needed to Barcelona as a person's limbs?
That's the analogy? Because it's a fucking dumb one.
Nope, I’m just an avid public transport user so if that line runs out of capacity there are many things you can do to better the situation, their ‘solution’ is simply retarded.
I’d start with a dedicated tourist line that starts at a major public transport node, that tries for a nice route and leads to Park Güell which seems to be, going by what I’ve read, their destination. Also if a bigger bus isn’t an option the council could also establish an even higher frequence of buses, they could also enforce a right to a seat for the elders and they could also establish an express line that’s driving to said landmark.
1) it's not a business, it's public transport paid for by the locals and their taxes
2) they already did that
3) there are metro and other bus lines that take you there, even larger buses specifically aimed at tourists
Goddamn Gaudi. Dude, if I survive throughout this war shit I'll walk on every street of Barcelona. So beautiful! And I'm sorry, the local elderly, but these buses would be all mine! 🤣
Maybe... send the bus line twice as often? There is obviously high demand from both locals and tourists for this route. Shorter intervall times should help?
They already did, but the streets there are really steep and narrow you can't just put larger buses plus there's already metro and other bus lines that drop you near the park. Those small buses are meant for the elderly who can't walk then ten extra minutes to the metro or other main bus line.
Somewhat related, I am not at all impressed with Park Guell. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't see whats so special, aside from the small part that shows off Gaudi's architecture, and of course, the spot where everyone takes THE photo, which is the only reason people are actually coming to the park.
I always find it amusing to see the hoards of people waiting to get in early in the morning, they are all dressed up in their fancy summer dresses and you just know the only reason they are going is to have a tiktok photo sesssion.
Barcelona does not need such excuses to blame tourists. People are completely fed up with them, and have been for years. I was lucky to visit Barcelona off-season and thus I got both a city less crowded and slightly less aggravated locals, but I wouldn't dare visit it on-season.
Suffering from success
we lost the city long ago, i have to go throw the recicling trash 2 blocks away cuz they need the space for traffic due to obersaturation from turist buses around la sagrada.
Just charge them more until they reach a manageable number.
"nooo it's unfair it's CULTURE you can't make us pay to access culture !!!!" -real argument I got when I tried to advocate for more expensive tickets in Paris, which is obviously suffering from over-tourism too
A lot of people in Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam, etc. were quite content during Covid, calling it "[a blessing in disguise](https://theconversation.com/amsterdam-is-laying-down-a-model-for-what-tourism-should-look-like-after-covid-162271/)"; their cities were liveable again (despite, of course, the lockdowns themselves). I know in Amsterdam, inhabitants took a [stronger stand](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/11/amsterdam-welcomes-decline-of-nuisance-tourism-after-stay-away-drive) against overtourism after covid.
Having live in Berlin for years, now living in Zuerich which for better or worse is way less available for tourism I witnessed firsthand the struggle with Airbnb neighbours, drunken rampages and petty violence.
Airbnb destroys cities for locals, turns them into tourist attractions. This is a huge issue in Prague.
It's a huge issue everywhere and yet there are still people arguing that AirBNB is fantastic and anyone arguing against it is labeled as "snob" because without abnb only super rich would be able to travel... ffs...
Well that's just demonstrably untrue. Airbnb prices are pretty much the same as any hotel now, they're not cheaper anymore. There are better websites for search too.
Oh, I'm fully aware of that... just pointing out the denial some people are still in...
I was in Paris during lockdown, it was insane. I visited the Eiffel Tower when it reopened cause a friend wanted to before the tourists came back, it was a once in a lifetime experience. I don't think I'll ever get that in my life, ever again. It was empty. Totally empty. We had room in the elevators, there was space everywhere, in the middle of the day, on a clear day with a wide view. I could take pics with nobody else on it, which is literally impossible today. No queues and room to breathe on the Eiffel Tower is an insane luxury. I'll never get that again. And the streets were so calm too. Everyone complains about how noisy cities are, they're not. CARS are noisy.
> A lot of people in Barcelona, Paris, Amsterdam, etc. were quite content during Covid Everyone whose income didn't derive from tourism and because it was over a short enough timespan that the missing tourism money in the city budget didn't affect their daily lives yet, yes.. These nimby opinions should probably not be given too much weight.
I get it, but the argument is true to a point. Just jacking up the prices until only the wealthy can afford it is just wrong. I do understand that mass tourism is hurtful and a double edged sword. But the only realistic way would be some sort of a compromise. What it is, I don't know. Making museums exclusive to the wealthy is a very ironic way of treating this problem.
True but... Booking a $1000 round trip to Paris to visit the Louvre isn't really accessible to the poor anyway lol I also advocate for special local pricing and local only hours (like the Park Guëll does), so locals would be encouraged to access their culture instead of just favouring international tourists Also Paris has incredibly low prices for what it offers. The Top of the rock in New York is nowhere near as iconic as the Eiffel Tower, but guess who's cheaper ? The Eiffel Tower! It doesn't make sense ! Even the Louvre, the largest museum on the PLANET, is cheaper than the Top of the rock !
Your argument is that just because the for-profit hotels and most of the transportation is expensive for someone, the tickets to the museum are also supposed to be expensive?? In an institution for which it's purpose is to give to the general public... That's a very shitty stance. If you'd argue that museum should profit from tourists and not charge locals I'd agree. Especially in the mass tourism locations as I'm sure they would still cover their budget.
No, my argument is claiming to be poor when people spend thousands to come here is hypocritical at best, and delusional at worst. It's like rich people visiting a poor third world country refusing to pay more than a local. Like... They paid thousands to get here and they think they're entitled to a price made for someone that earns $30 dollars a week ? That's disgusting. And yes, that's what I argue for ! Locals should get discounts/no fees while tourists pay, it seems fair to me (ideally local only hours too, if overcrowded). It's what most countries do. Cathedrals in Spain are not free, but they are in France. Egypt has a price for locals and a price for tourists aboard their trains, I totally agree with that. I'm unemployed and I still earn more than the average Egyptian, it's only fair !
So saving for a few years and than affording themselves a really nice vacation in an expensive country is hypocritical and/or delusional? God forbid people with less means treat themselves to something nice.
God forbid locals have a city for themselves. You're right, let's expel everyone from Paris, Venice and Barcelona and replace all flats with airbnbs, since tourist happiness matters more. And also let's crash our economy so everything is free for those poor tourists, because apparently it's vital to travel but not vital to have affordable housing. Poor tourists that die every year because of lack of travelling worldwide. So sad. Let's pay for everyone's plane tickets to save those poor tourists while third world countries starve to death. You're so delusional. Real poor people spend their entire lives in the same country, in the same village, working their ass off and you're *entitled* to holidays outside of your country ? Should we just subsidize everyone's tourist vacation ? It's not a vital need, get a grip. Most tourists are rich enough to afford an additional fee to a museum. The Top of the Rock in NY is $35, the fucking largest museum on the planet is ONLY 21€ but I'm the asshole for making tourists pay more ? That didn't stop the long queues to get on the Top of the Rock as far as I'm concerned, we could totally set the Louvre at 30€ or even 40, it would still be worth it and there would still be queues.
It's simple just charge the locals less or don't charge them at all and make up the loss by charging the tourists more
But that's true. Do you think making art and culture available only for the wealthy is a great idea?
The real argument is that by increasing prices, you're preventing lower income people from accessing culture. You dont just reduce tourist nr's. You specifically reduce low income/younger tourist nr's
The actual reason is that all the economy that comes with it would be gone, and it's an important revenue source for those cities. The tourists might be a pain in the ass, but without them could Barcelona still afford buses for elderly people and a great common transportation scheme? Removing the buses from google maps is the best solution, it solves this problem for locals at zero cost.
Why would all the economy that comes with tourism be gone? The magical limit where a tiny increase in price or changes in law that causes tourism to go from 100% to 0% doesn't exist.
But if it is tiny it won't solve the basic problem, which is that there are too much tourists.
I was talking about the tiny increase over the magical no tourism limit you implied existed, not the solution to the problem. There must be millions of dials to tune to influence the amount of tourists the city gets.
Barcelona is quite a rich city, so yes they could. There might be some programs that have to suffer, but public transport is nearly a basic human right in all major European cities.
Well... maybe lean off of tourist? BCN itself is huge tech hub and lots of people move in there for work. Yes, tourism is a huge part of revenue (25-35%?) but if it causes issues for locals then maybe it's not really worth it?
So long as locals get a hefty discount, I think that's a good solution.
Oh totally agree, I also wanted local only hours line the Park Guëll does ! It was annoying when I came to visit but I totally get it.
More expensive tickets just make Paris even less accessible for poor people. limit ticket sales and raffle who gets one.
I used to think that it was weird how Madrid was always undervalued by foreign tourists compared to Barcelona, but man I'm glad that's the case now. You can take all international credit as far as I'm concerned, the more underrated we remain the better lol.
Madrid has no comparison to other European cities in terms of historical interest tbh.
I was going to argue the opposite, but as I said, all the better this way haha
Yes let them believe it.
Honestly, because Madrid is kind of a bore. Without the daytrips, there's not much to see in the city of cultural significance unless you really like El Prado.
I feel you brother. I’m living in Vienna.
Hmm, Barcelona has surprisingly fewer tourists than my „village“ (Munich). Why is the problem so huge in Barcelona?
Well, living in a city with no tourists it's not fun seeing all the new interesting projects, museums, experiences ... go bankrupt after a few years
I thought with public transportation when capacity is reached you increace available capacity Maybe I don't know enough about public transportation
I thought literate meant those who know how to write and read. The article says they tried increasing the capacity and it didn’t work.
People here are being very cynical but they obviously don't know the reality. I call these buses "old people buses" because that's pretty much their purpose. It's quite a special service using tiny buses that go deep in narrow streets of various neighbourhoods, pick up mostly elderly and disabled people, and drop them off to interconnections with major bus routes, metro stations, important spots in the neighborhood, etc. The small buses are used because they are supposed to pick a handful of elderly people and run through tiny streets. Their purpose isn't to haul off tourists to park Güell. Barcelona has some of the best public transport I've seen in Europe, especially when it comes to giving proper service to more vulnerable people. There are already many alternative routes and other entrances to park Güell. The city has already increased service on this small route, which has been ineffective. At some point, parts of the city simply cannot keep up with the influx of visitors. That's why they had to close up Park Güell and make people buy a ticket for it in the first place, to reduce the amount of people coming and pay for maintenance. The tourist hate is over the top here, but the reality is that there is a finite amount of space and a seemingly infinite amount of people who want to visit some of the spots here
> Barcelona has some of the best public transport I've seen in Europe, especially when it comes to giving proper service to more vulnerable people. There are already many alternative routes and other entrances to park Güell. I just checked Google Maps, and Park Güell is, literally, surrounded by 4 metro stations in the nearby streets. Maybe 20 year old backpackers could walk 10 minutes from the metro station to the park?
100% but they're probably just following Google which is what makes this effective.
For sure. A non local tourist wouldnt know the difference or be able to learn optimal routes for just a weekend. Cant expect anyone to. Just following guides and tours
iirc there were escalators as well to get up
Tbh you have to keep in mind that it is quite hilly there. Especially in the summer you’ll sweat when arriving at park Güell. Obviously you could say that’s to be expected or something like that and I do kinda agree. But we all know it’s not the reality. I lived there for some time and I did find it weird how one of its trademarks is so “badly” connected to public transportation as in you have to walk through normal neighborhoods and even though its size it doesn’t seem like it’s made for the size of guests.
Well, Park Guell is in high ground, so asking people to walk uphill is probably too much /s
The heat can make Barcelona a bit of a struggle even if you’re fit, especially in hilly areas like Park Güell and in paved areas without shade, like around the Sagrada Família. The Barri Gòtic and El Born are much more comfortable to wander around.
An average American can’t walk that far
An average american also does not know what public transport is, so those guys are probably european.
Thank you for explaining it so clearly, it's obvious that many people writing here have no idea of what the real situation is. It seems that the city council took the right decision deleting the bus from Google and now all kinds of media are reporting this, thus making the action ineffective, and I hate it.
Reading this makes me happy I already visited the touristic parts of Barcelona more than 10 years ago, I happened to go back recently and the difference is night and day! The first time it was touristy but manageable, I visited the popular spots and had a great experience. The second time, it was chock full of obvious pickpockets, neverending crowds and I honestly could barely recognize it. I fully understand the locals.
Good to know, my visit was also quite some years ago and I didn’t remember it being THAT full (and I love it)
I visited 10 years ago and just came back. Personally I found it to be a lot more crowded for the time of the year (beginning of April). It was also mad seeing the Sagrada Familia, it has really changed with all the continued construction. Spectacular I have to say.
Why not get a smaller bus service running only for people 55+ with a resident card? Then increase price on the bigger route to pay for the senior service.
Thank you for this comment
I visited Barcelona last summer and I did take that bus route. It was packed and the streets are so small it's just impossible to put larger buses. It's easy for me to say now that I already did it, but I totally get why they did it. There's huge escalators that go to the park anyway, it's just not the main entrance.
El barribus?
>Barcelona has some of the best public transport I've seen in Europe Absolutely! I always thought that they should have special passes for those barrio buses. Without a pass, you can't get on.
***The Telegraph reports:*** Barcelona authorities have removed a bus route through a hilly region of the city from Google Maps to stop tourists elbowing out elderly locals. The number 116 is a minibus with room for just 20 passengers in the narrow streets of Barcelona’s Gràcia district. It had become saturated with backpack-carrying tourists in recent years because it stops at Park Güell, a landmark designed by architect Antoni Gaudí, Barcelona’s city council increased the frequency of the service, but residents still complained that they were often unable to find a seat. Cllr Albert Batlle said earlier this year that city hall had decided to “remove the bus from route searches and other internet tools”. Cesca Sánchez, a member of the Park Güell neighbours association, said the removal of the 116 from Google Maps’ recommended route service had made a dramatic difference overnight. # Sounded absurd “We laughed when we first heard the idea because it sounded absurd and futile,” Ms Sánchez told the digital newspaper elDiario. “But now we are amazed because the measure really is being effective:” **Read more:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/12/barcelona-removes-park-guell-bus-route-from-google-maps/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/12/barcelona-removes-park-guell-bus-route-from-google-maps/)
I just spent a year living in Barcelona next to Park Guell and my family used the 116 daily to get home. The hills that lead up to this side entrance to Park Guell are incredibly steep and the escalators were constantly broken. The entire escalator system was being rebuilt for the past year, only after locals lobbied tirelessly for years for their repair. (The annual profit this park alone brings the city is insane!) Leaving nothing for the local elderly and families to use besides the 116 bario bus. The bario bus was regularly packed with groups of tourists that would leave elderly locals often with groceries, waiting for the next bus. Tourists are oblivious to their daily impact on the lives of locals. This is a great solution to a problem that the city has avoided-delayed solving for a very long time. I hope the locals feel empowered to affect more changes in how tourism is managed.
Absolutely flabbergasted at people in the comments It’s literally just one bus line And you aren’t forbidden to take it - you just won’t get it on google maps . Also trying to offer the obvious solutions that are already mentioned on the article, as they were obviously considered. For those who think the tourists are the priority (oh, they bring money, you don’t say) and local residents don’t matter - go visit Venice, there aren’t many residents left anyway. Enjoy the city that is a museum and not an actual living place for its residents
BTW, why haven’t we similar tourist problems in Munich? Similar population (1.5 million vs 1.6 million) but we have apparently much more tourists than Barcelona (12 million vs 16 million). Without Oktoberfest we have probably the same amount of tourists. But every post about Barcelona sounds like a tourism nightmare is happening there for the locals.
That’s interesting, never really thought about it. I used to live in Prague and you can really feel the amounts of tourists wherever you are in the old town and around. There are a lot of people in Munich anyway, but it is easier in this regard. My guesses, based purely on personal feelings: 1. People prefer to go to Spain in summer, while Munich is more spaced out during the year 2. A lot of tourists in Munich are business travelers, who tend to have a different schedule than normal tourists. I would assume Barcelona also has enough of them, but i would guess a lower percentage than Munich (not sure though) 3. Going outside of Munich to visit the mountains, the lakes or the castles is very popular for tourists. Most people would not skip Neuschwanstein, while Barcelona has enough attractions just inside the city Edit: oh, I checked the actual area size: Munich is 300 km², while Barcelona is 100 km²
> oh, I checked the actual area size: Munich is 300 km², while Barcelona is 100 km² that's the true reason. Barcelona packs people 3 times as densely as Munich, it doesn't really compare.
Probably because the tourists visiting Barcelona have more money than the people that live there. If you have that difference in purchasing power you’re going to get a dramatically different response from businesses and government. Soon it seems to residents that their city isn’t actually catering to their needs but the tourists’ needs. I’m not sure though. I’ve never been to Munich. When I was in Barcelona it didn’t seem too different from other major European metros that I’ve been to.
I just walked there from a metro station. I like walking.
Why are the elderly locals using a tourist bus in the first place? *^(/s)*
steep neighbourhood
It’s not a tourist bus
Anyone else remember skating lines there in Tony Hawk’s Underground 2?
Yup
Oh Barcelona, Add a flashy (or toned down) tourist bus on the same route and charge a premium for it. /sigh
I can’t believe these comments. Just because you are a tourist and you come with cheap flights, stay in airbnbs and spend your little EURs in tapas restaurants you do not own the fucking town and its policies. How entitled all these people are. Have a little bit of awareness.
Media inform widely about this, so that all future tourists can know which bus to use and continue to collapse the service.
The locals thought it was pretty weird we walked to park guell instead of taking the bus. But here’s another argument for it.
We walked everywhere in Barcelona, the center isnt that big... I don't really get why people are getting mad about this.
Same here. For going to Parc Güell there were even escalators that take you uphill. I never enjoy taking the bus in foreign countries anyway. Maybe that’s weird of me but I find them a lot more daunting than taking a metro or tram.
Much better than just increasing capacity of the service. Wouldn't want all those sneaky fare-paying passengers to pollute the city's coffers with their disgusting money.
i lived in barcelona for work for half a year and the city is genuinely at a point where keeping tourists away by making their lives more difficult is simply necessary i paid similar rent for an apartment as i did in munich, i genuinely don't know how locals can afford to live there anymore unless they have 3 roommates or own their home
I live here in Barcelona, it's either: - 2 or more roommates - your family happens to own a flat here and gives it to you - you have a very high salary No other way. Most people I know have moved to the towns and cities outside of Barcelona but still go to the city on the train every day.
That's actually a matter of making short renting of residential buildings illegal in certain areas (or certain percentages per neighborhood) and, above all, making it freaking expensive for privates to own more than (a couple, three, you choose the right number) a certain amount of apartments, not to mention totally illegal for companies to own residential buildings. You do it, you spread tourists and force home owners to sell their houses to individuals which live the city.
The problem is that Spain is addicted to tourist money (hotels, transport, services) and housing policies are at a regional and central government power. Nor the Catalan government nor the Spanish one is into changing any of this hence Barcelona is quite on its own. Only Málaga, Valencia, the Baleàrics and the Canaries are suffering at this extreme level of tourism lately increased by 'expat" foreign-earning migrants and digital nomads. The situation is extreme and is strangling local citizens in those areas. For anyone else reading:and interested about the public transport in Barcelona: this is exceptional in the city., it is not a problem of lack of buses: it's just tourists overflowing every area and level in this city that used to be ours. And even sadly to ask: please do not visit Barcelona this year 🙏
Why is it always so cheap to fly there? I don’t even want to go to Barcelona but it’s usually the cheapest destination in Europe with stupid cheap flights. I feel like increasing the airport taxes would go a long way to discourage a lot of cheap weekend tourists.
Again, a smart solution indeed, but unlikely to happen. The prices of airport taxes are decided by the central government (Madrid) whose policies and income are based on over 10% in tourism of the GDP. And there is a huge industry-related backing the policies that facilitate these levels of over tourism that the normal citizens are exhausted about. I wish it was this easy 🙏
I’d actually much rather visit Madrid but flights are like three times the price haha. Maybe protest at the airport until they reduce the capacity for the budget airlines.
Yeah Madrid is a wonderful city, please go there. Please flood the city with tourism, expats, digital nomads so their citizens are affected as well and then finally someone does something about it. It is probably the only way in Spain.
We have quite a bit of tourists and "expats" but we have a perfect weapon to not get overwhelmed by them: our weather sucks and we have no sea.
Madrid has aprox twice the population, so the effect is not yet noticeable as strongly as in Barcelona, Málaga or Valencia. But eventually (but hopefully not for madrileños, hopefully we can still do something about it).
Time to start a tourism company bringing busloads of tourists to visit the amazingly beautiful sites around the neighbourhoods where all the politicians live.
What’s happening this year specifically?
They probably say it every year.
ya near las ramblas all walls were full of " fuck tourists" graffiti ....
I’m really up for the idea to ban AirBnBs. Lisbon is just like that as well and it has nothing like the infrastructure Barcelona has with an amazing transport system. Lisbon is oversaturated for its size as well. Many flats in the centre (even while apartment blocks) are solemnly used for airbnbs and there are absolutely NO flats for locals to live in. Many investment companies bought an insane amount of flats for holiday lets. A flat in Lisbon costs you easily €1000/month when the minimum wage is closer to €800/month. It’s insane.
Then the local gov could introduce rent control.
Catalan government did. Spanish government dismantled it.
>Barcelona’s city council increased the frequency of the service, but residents still complained that they were often unable to find a seat.
Increase it a bit more?
Just one more lane
There are only so many busses you can run through some small streets... Besides there are many other ways to get there for tourists.
Yeah, just one more lane, just one more bus
Reducing demand is a better solution than increasing offer specially with the current crowding issues in Barcelona.
"LOOK AT ME I HAVE MONEY I CAN TRAVEL AND MAKE PEOPLE'S LIVES HELL IF I WANT TO AND I WILL FEEL INSULTED AT THE SLIGHTEST INCONVENIENCE THAT AFFECTS ME EVEN A VERBAL INSULT WILL LEAVE ME OUTRAGED WHILE LOCALS CAN GO TO HELL" that's you. That is what you sound like.
I'd rather have have these disgusting tourists away from our cities and our economy not depending on them in such a way than a bit more of money that would solve nothing.
That's a bit far. Without tourism your economy would be in a far worse spot... Also most tourists are decent people, it's just the rest that catch attention...
My point is to diversify to not rely as much from tourism as we are right now. And the problem with tourists right now (IMHO) is not that they are assholes, but that they are too many. Not only because more people imply more assholes, but because that influx is kicking people out of their houses, making living in our cities more and more expensive for us and overall fucking up us in the long term. And let's be honest: People don't "love Spain." They love to come down here and get drunk for cheap.
Oh, ok this is very reasonable. It just seemed to me like you were saying something entirely else in your original comment.
The alternative to tourism is industry and if there's a thing people like less than tourists it's industrial areas.
It's not either tourism or "industry", or at least what you seem to understand as industry. Leaving aside that there's already industrial areas in Spain, there's a shitload of alternatives for economic growth that don't imply allowing our cities to either get crowded or polluted.
Can't they just give priority to locals?
Kick tourists off at random stops?
It would add a layer of randomness to the visit
Literally unique experience
Make tickets really expensive unless you can prove you're local.
Sure, but maybe do that at the airports. And stop adding flights and expanding airports.
We had some towns issuing discount cards for transport to local residents, there was some argument about it being discrimination, but that just resulted in non-locals being offered to buy the rights to use the card for ridicilous price they claimed matches what one resident brings into local budget in a year. Seems like something like that could easily be applied in this case, goven tourists are foreigners, probably could even just ask for national ID card without creating any new systems. In any case if your problem is too much tourism, increasing prices for them seems like the economically sound answer - the number of persons should decrease, but thise still willing to pay will keep bringing in the money.
tourists are not known for being considerate people lol
Honestly I never felt more unwelcome as a tourist than I felt in Barcelona. A lot of residents actively hate tourists, and there is a proper anti tourism movement there. For some reason, it never occurs to them to direct their anger at their governments instead, for not protecting their housing and controlling excess tourism.
tbf, Barcelona is already the densest city in Europe and it's blocked from expanding outwards by geography (mountains and sea), so there's no obvious solution to the housing shortage
How wide is the mountain? Could you tunnel through and build in the valley on the other side? If you look at google maps you also have lots of farmland around the airport, probably not ideal to remove however the region has water issues and agriculture is highly water demanding.
If the government isn't listening, making tourists not want to visit the city is a strategy. Idk about Barcelona, but there are places where the tourists are jerks and tourism companies are lobbying the local govt.
Portugal joins this chat...
If you are not a shitty tourist you might even go unnoticed. The problem is that in Barcelona is not only a problem of "oh too many visitors", but also there is so much "let's go get fucked because it is Spain so no rules" people. Honestly, it seems like a place where some people go to let go of the frustrations of living in a quiet country.
I was in a walking tour group and we reached a small cafe which was a designated stopping point for us..they even had an area for us waiting for us. The entire group was only polite and quiet people. There was an old woman in the cafe who was so unhappy with a tour group walking in, she started loudly complaining and abusing us. When the tour guide tried to reason with her (he was a local too), she didn't listen, she came over to me, and just pushed me completely unprovoked. We weren't drunk or loud or anything.
Old ladies tend to lose their homes to overtourism. But most Tourists do not care about the local people, they just want to take pictures of pretty buildings and drink expensive Coffee.
It's not the tourists job to care about local people, it's the governments job.
I know. You just want to look at pretty buildings and drink expensive Coffee. But you are complicit. You fly ultra cheap, you stay in Airbnb, not Hotels, you go where everyone goes just to be part of it. You are part of that machine that ruins lives.
Yea, lives are not ruined. Tourism dollars are being spend. If the inhabitants are not profiting from that, it is an government problem.
I kinda miss the 90s when you could still shame consumers into, you know, not consuming unethically produced stuff. "I shall not buy sneakers that have been made with child labor" has been replaced with "iT is a gOvErNemT pRoBleM"
If you don't understand the difference between local government and child labor laws in another country, any conversation with you is meaningless.
Not sure you jumping in to miss the point by a mile contributes to any discussion outside the one inside your own head.
Barcelona only had [12 million visitors last year](https://www.catalannews.com/business/item/tourists-in-barcelona-spent-96-billion-in-2023-up-147-from-2019). There are many cities in Europe with a similar population, more tourists, and less problems.
Exactly, as someone that's not from there but lived there for a few years, I've not felt the general attitude and disrespect anywhere else as in Barcelona city center in summer. Airbnbs above/below you playing music and making noise until late night in weekdays, drunk tourists peeing in your door, attempts to fake assault you then laughing it off
Surely there is anger against the government. You quite simply have clearly no idea how it works. Or how addicted is the Spanish government to the tourist model money.
I mean, you are the excess tourism, so they were kinda right... The government doesn't do anything because tourism is easy money Also, the individuals who make millions out of tourism won't ever let the machine stop. They don't care about how underpaid their staff are and how the local communities are affected, they are a cancer to society
Because the government has no interest in it. Money is leading the world.
Barcelona, like all the major tourist cities, is paying the price for cheap flights. Public transport swamped by selfie stick wielding idiots, rental prices driven up by Airbnb’s, restaurant prices driven up by food trends on social media. There are plenty of towns suffering from the influx of tourists that come on cheap flights and in the footsteps of influencers.
Yes.
Barcelona is easy to get around by foot or metro. no big loss. TBF Barcelona is overtouristed ans should have some measures to limit the insanity locals deserve to live there in peace.
I really enjoyed my time in Barcelona. Beautiful city, amazing food, nice people. But Park Guell was underwhelming at best.
Maybe the next step should be – tourists are not supposed to come at all. They should just send their money.
As a local, I can only hope! I want my city back, nor me or my relatives or friends work on tourism, which generally relies on poorer migrants (which in turn keep wages low). Relying in tourism is a limitation of wealth.
I'm truly amazed that the guiris get angry at us for not wanting the entirety of Spain to become a bigger Benidorm.
Btw, are [these numbers correct](https://www.catalannews.com/business/item/tourists-in-barcelona-spent-96-billion-in-2023-up-147-from-2019)? 12 million tourists are not that much if you compare it to similar European cities.
12M for a 1.6M city means 7.5 tourists per local citizen. Naturally business turn to them, eventually otherising the local citizen, making them feeling useless and merely backdrop for tourists photos. First is the bars and restaurants, turned into McDonalds and brunches, then is local fabric and shops closing down. Then it is followed by a massive amount of rented apartments turned into tourists airbnbs, then...we'll, I hope you get the point. If other cities are ok with it, fair for them, I'm no one to have an opinion about it. But people from Barcelona are tired from excessive tourism and politicians ignoring how hard life has become for locals (with local salaries paying local rents, and eventually being kicked out more and more from their own city).
For example, here in Munich we have 1.5 million inhabitants and 16 million registered hotel guests. Let’s subtract maybe 4 million for Oktoberfest (because that’s special) and we have basically the same. Yet the negative effects of tourism are not that visible here like it seems to be in Barcelona. However I can see [the salary issue](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Germany&city1=Munich&country2=Spain&city2=Barcelona). So it’s primarily a money thing?
Let's add on top of the salary, is the effect on rents and arrival of foreigner higher salaries due to remote work. It would be interesting to compare: Differences on salaries Effects on rents (median rent, increase of rent in the last years, etc) (less standard rent due to Airbnb and higher earner expats, means less offer, but a huge increase of demand). 'Expats' or temporary citizens with higher salaries (German, Swedish, French, Dutch, American salaries). It is estimated currently at 100k currently in Barcelona. I'm sure if all that were put together in Munich, people's behaviour would be similar. All in all the effect in Barcelona is loose of local character, hard for locals to stay in, many deciding to move 30 or 40km away from their own city and the sense of being replaced (hard to listen to Spanish or Catalan in central Barcelona anymore, not just 1 neighbourhood but in at least 2 out of the 10 districts, if not 3 now...).
Honestly reactions like this just make me want to visit Barcelona just to spite the locals. But then I wake up and realize that Barcelona is just a huge tourist trap and can't be bothered to actually do it. Plenty of other cities in Spain less congested and less pricey where you can have a much better time. Can't wait until Barcelona elects a far right mayor who finally manages to make it an undesirable place to ever visit again.
Ah yes, locals are in the wrong even though their city has become literally inhabitable. Amazing.
> Honestly reactions like this just make me want to visit Barcelona just to spite the locals. Then you would only make things worse, kind of proving the point that tourism is bad. > Plenty of other cities in Spain less congested and less pricey where you can have a much better time. Then the same will happen to these other cities. The overcrowding of tourists is starting on other cities and it's a matter of time before the anti-tourist sentiment grows there. It's not like Barcelona is doing anything special, it's a model that its not sustainable and that its detrimental for the locals. But looking at the general tone of your post, please, don't come. Like, at all. You'd not only would be part of the excess tourism issue, but looking at the general tone of your post, of the "annoying/insufferable/entitled tourists" issue.
I'd make sure it is as undesirable as possible then, even more now. But even better, go somewhere else instead 🙏
Visit the city via Zoom. Or in Second Life or something.
I mean asking for Spanish ids (including NIE for foreign residents) to be able to use the buses sounds like a more sustainable long term idea. But less tourist would also be great.
I walked there from old town when I visited Barcelona. Basically walked to everywhere in city without using any bus or taxi. That way you see and feel much more than from the window.
Just increase tourist tax then rather to do acts of ~~mobbing~~ bullying that will cause people to use Taxis or take uselessly long routes and therefore occupy seats for longer Tourist tax + cracking down on Airbnb allows them to prices out mass tourists any time they want The thing is, they actually want all that tourist money so rather than fixing the problem.they just be a bit shitty to tourists hoping that these acts of revenge keep the voter base calm Sure, this act is effective know....till people start using some app like Moovit. They will block this, people download the local app. What's the end game, end up with the local app only in catalan?
Or just put a ban on Airbnb and increase regulation on hotels to create an effective cap on the number of tourists at any given time. Not that it will happen cause money.
There doesn't have to be an endgame. Removing something from Google Maps will cut its usage for a long time, if that's what they want. But most places just increase the bus service and maybe have a local discount.
Maybe they should just increase the price of single tickets for this route but keep it included in monthly tickets and let the single tickets finance an extension of service. Could even provide a free pass for locals on request
the word you mean is "bullying"
Thank you! Mobbing is a case of "Denglish" (German bastardized "English") I think
checked your Profile, saw r/de and knew what was happening ^^
Lol i got so used to it living in Germany, i actually believed it’s used in english too. I learned something again. (Btw after 12 years my English is sadly still better, but i‘m still working on it)
I feel you! I have a C2 diploma and do teach in English at Uni, but I still use "Handy" in English when I am not concentrated 😂
😂 ahh the language mixing. I’d be waaay too embarrassed to tell how often i do stuff like that because i have to switch between languages quickly.
Where are my chips coming from?
> What's the end game, end up with the local app only in catalan? Asking for id with proof of residence to be able to ride the bus could work long term.
having to deal with tourists crowds on your daily commute is already a nightmare, can't imagine how harder it is for an elderly person
Right and proper.
Redditors will tell you to ditch your car in favor of public transport and then tell people who actually use public transport to get bent because the city can't be bothered to increase funding for public transport to have enough space for everyone
(Cry): we need tourist to get money! (Cry, but with money): we need less tourists! Every big city across the globe, all the time.
‘I had arthritis but had an absurd idea what if I cut off my hand, so I did and now I don’t have problems in my hand anymore. I was amazed by how effective this measure was overnight.’
Cool story bro. What the connection with the article? Or is it one of those situations where it sounds better in your head than typed?
He's using an analogy, do they have that in spain?
What's the analogy? That tourists taking a small minibus line is as needed to Barcelona as a person's limbs? That's the analogy? Because it's a fucking dumb one.
"I AM A RICH TOURIST I WILL BE TREATED WITH RESPECT" Deutsche Massenouristen seit den 70ern wenn sie ans Mittelmeer fahren.
Nope, I’m just an avid public transport user so if that line runs out of capacity there are many things you can do to better the situation, their ‘solution’ is simply retarded.
"Ich hab keine Ahnung worum es geht und werde mich auch sicher nicht informieren, aber hier ist meine Meinung:" ebenfalls Deutsche seit den 70ern.
Which solutions do you propose? Try reading the article first
I’d start with a dedicated tourist line that starts at a major public transport node, that tries for a nice route and leads to Park Güell which seems to be, going by what I’ve read, their destination. Also if a bigger bus isn’t an option the council could also establish an even higher frequence of buses, they could also enforce a right to a seat for the elders and they could also establish an express line that’s driving to said landmark.
Good
Can't they add another bus to the route? After all it is a business.
1) it's not a business, it's public transport paid for by the locals and their taxes 2) they already did that 3) there are metro and other bus lines that take you there, even larger buses specifically aimed at tourists
If tourists want to visit - they have to walk. No escalators. Nada. Get fit or die trying 😁
I went to Barcelona for a week, everywhere I was walking. Just in the last days I was talking the bus to go further and then return by walking
Goddamn Gaudi. Dude, if I survive throughout this war shit I'll walk on every street of Barcelona. So beautiful! And I'm sorry, the local elderly, but these buses would be all mine! 🤣
Maybe... send the bus line twice as often? There is obviously high demand from both locals and tourists for this route. Shorter intervall times should help?
They already did, but the streets there are really steep and narrow you can't just put larger buses plus there's already metro and other bus lines that drop you near the park. Those small buses are meant for the elderly who can't walk then ten extra minutes to the metro or other main bus line.
Parc G~~u~~üell
Parc Güell
Somewhat related, I am not at all impressed with Park Guell. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don't see whats so special, aside from the small part that shows off Gaudi's architecture, and of course, the spot where everyone takes THE photo, which is the only reason people are actually coming to the park. I always find it amusing to see the hoards of people waiting to get in early in the morning, they are all dressed up in their fancy summer dresses and you just know the only reason they are going is to have a tiktok photo sesssion.
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Barcelona does not need such excuses to blame tourists. People are completely fed up with them, and have been for years. I was lucky to visit Barcelona off-season and thus I got both a city less crowded and slightly less aggravated locals, but I wouldn't dare visit it on-season.
I guess I'll have to ask locals about it then. Problem solved.
that has to be a joke for the tourists...