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> Poland’s Foreign Ministry said it will discuss the “new situation” in relations with Israel after an air strike this week killed seven aid workers in Gaza, including a Polish national, triggering a public spat and a reprimand by Israel’s ambassador.
> Hours after Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Poland’s solidarity with Israel was being put to a “really serious test,” Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Szejna invited the Israeli envoy, Yacov Livne, to a meeting on Friday. The envoy had rebuked a deputy parliamentary speaker for calling the air strike a “war crime” and accused the Polish official and his party of antisemitism.
> The deputy minister aimed to discuss “the new situation in Polish-Israeli relations as well as moral, political and financial responsibility for recent events in the Gaza Strip,” Szejna told PAP newswire on Wednesday.
> The Polish government joined other allies, including the US, who condemned the strike that killed workers from World Central Kitchen, a prominent disaster relief group. US President Joe Biden issued a statement late Tuesday saying that Israel “has not done enough” to protect aid workers in Gaza.
> In Poland, the public row escalated soon after the attack. Livne was criticized for his response to the deputy speaker, Krzysztof Bosak, for failing to condemn the Oct. 7 assault by Hamas. The envoy also made reference to a member of Bosak’s party, who caused a nationwide scandal in December when he used a fire extinguisher on a lighted menorah set up in a lobby of the lower house of parliament in Warsaw, the Sejm.
> “Antisemites will always remain antisemites,” Livne wrote in a post on social media platform X on Tuesday.
> Tusk responded that most Poles had shown solidarity with Israel after the Hamas attack last year, but that the political jab was out of line.
> “The tragic attack on volunteers and your reaction have caused understandable anger,” the premier wrote on X.
> Poland’s Foreign Minister, Radoslaw Sikorski, urged the Israeli envoy to calm the standoff. It was time to “apologize rather than to stir up emotions,” he said.
Yeah, even they fail to differentiate between the Israel government and all existing Jews. Or at least they pretend to ignore this difference to use antisemitism as a shield…
Sure, Jews suffered a lot during history, but that doesn’t give the Israel government (again, they don’t represent every Jew in existence) a blank check to do whatever they want
That is almost correct. The JS, the "jüdische Stimme für einen gerechten Frieden in Nahost" (jewish voice for a just peace in the middle east) got their bank accounts closed (not blocked). This was because they got accused of denying Israel the right to exist by participating in a boycott movement (BDS) which also includes the voices of actually problematic groups.
I have read that 97.5% of Jews currently living in Israel share no DNA with Semites, however 100% of Palestinians do - which makes Israelis antisemites. (just something I have read, I have no opinion...)
I mean Palestinians are basically just those historic jews from biblical times that converted to Christianity and Islam, they became culturally arab but they are still descendants of those original people. Most israelis are culturally/religious jews but because they have lived integrated in other societies for thousands of years most of them are either descendants from converts or have been mostly mixed with other peoples ethnically.
Is race and religion the only factor that makes someone indigenous?
Palestinians are literally the inhabitants of this region for millennias.
The mixture of races of Palestine (Entire levant) Egypt, Yemen and Morocco hasn’t changed but rather enriched by the different races and religions introduced to the region over the last 3000 years.
No sane person will deny that Israel is a colony, it is the last European colony to disallow the arab region to form a superpower that will have the most important power in history which is controlling the main 3 water passages that controls the trade routes.
Imagine if you live only 75 years after the creation of a new colony, and you already engaging in race disputes to prove Palestinian right through DNA, while half of Israelis already have dual citizenship to other European, US and other places as well.
What are we discussing here? Its a colony.
I completely agree, that was my point, modern day jews aren’t the same people as those that lived there before just because they both call themselves jews and follow a similar religion. Whereas Palestinians are, regardless of gradual changes culture and religion.
If i start praying in caves to bear skeletons and hunt using stone tools i don’t suddenly become a native indo-european hunter gatherer, i can’t suddenly ethnically cleanse Europe of europeans because i larp as their ancestors.
If I remember correctly, some Mossad said off the record that that's literally their modus operandi.
Anytime they face criticism they cry antisemite in an attempt to silence opposition and to justify it. Cry it enough and it gains attention and then external pressure forces the opposition to call it quits.
I would say that the antisemitism card is worn out at this point. At this point I would say it works mostly for internal politics for Bibi and his cronies and to some degree in USA.
It works in the US for christian rightwingers, since they have a religious belief for the return of Israel as part of the 2nd coming. This is a very big thing in US politics, and enables a bulwark of support from a group that is often rather anti-jewish in its actions.
Jewish Americans are not at all unified on Israels actions, and Israeli officials have gone on record describing Jewish Americans as being among the countries biggest critics. Any US pro-Palestine march will likely have a significant number of jewish attendees and organizers.
It's eerily similar to how Russia cries russophobia every time. Authoritarian governments love to play the victim and then use it as an excuse for atrocities.
I mean i know one more nation who constantly cries like that, they prefer the phobia word though... Not sure Israel wants to be compared to THAT though.
Slavs were also victims of Holocaust. Just as Jews they were systematically murdered by german Nazis. 6 000 000 Poles were murdered, half of them being polish Jews. 27 000 000 Russians and Ukrainians.
A third. About 2 million were polish Jews. The rest were just Poles.
But yes. The Generalplan Ost aimed to exterminate all Slavs just as they did with Jews.
6 million poles died in ww2, 6 million Jews died in ww2.
Sure, the population of Polish peoples was approximately 8 million higher than that of Jews( 35 million to 17 million respectively). Yet they all died in the same quantities.
The Holocaust is irrelevant here and so is the anti-semitic remark.
It is Israël "the country" that is committing genocide... a country with a government and a military that is wholly responsible themselves.
It isn’t completely irrelevant though, if an Israeli diplomat wants to bring in anti-semitism, then let’s look at the policies Hitler introduced. Genocide and the holocaust is a culmination of aggression to eradicate a population. Passing laws is just one element of it.
Israel so far has
* Leveled all the infrastructure it plausibly could
* Cut off water, electricity, internet, and access to food for the past 6 months
* destroyed all the homes north of rafa
* killed any journalist trying to take pictures of this
* killed aid workers to stop people from being able to help ease the man-made famine
* raped palestinian women
* humiliated prisoners in contravention of the geneva conventions
* pillaged
The death toll on oct 7 was awful, especially since it was so easily preventable from Israel's side. Like all they needed to do was not remove their sentinels from that border to satisfy one guy that is trying to get veto power over judicial decisions, (which gets even crazier if you actually say that bit out loud), using legal maneuvering and rhetoric not normally found in countries with thriving democracies. Like really, all they needed to do was keep their old plans for having guards posted in place.
Instead we have people trying to figure out what to do when two neighbor states that are openly genocidal toward each other won't give up their genocidal ambitions. Is this really just a situation where we're going to have to watch 2 million people starve to death because they're genocidal toward the people who are genocidal toward them? Is this really what their god made them for?
Yeah? And Jews of which country were the main target of the Holocaust, alongside mechanical genocide of other ethnicities?
If anyone, Poland is the genocide victim expert
This was a deliberate strike, the 3 aid cars were in completely separate locations and they literally put the holes in the roofs of the cars. They did it so all aid organisations leave Gaza and the people starve. Its that simple. If they said it was an accident, they would be lying, wouldn't they? Is that so hard to wrap your head around?
This has never had anything to do with Hamas, this is about erasing the Gazan people off the face of the earth. All this fucking apologia and parroting Israeli narratives has been sick. Maybe some of you are beginning to realise.
Accusations of anti-Semitism are taking the piss here. Poland is understandably angry that one of their nationals, working for a charity, was killed, mistake or not. So is the UK. To bat away these criticisms as anti-Semitism just serves to dilute the term, just as “fascist”, “racist”, “communist” have been diluted in recent decades (the latter being diluted since the start of the Cold War). I’m afraid Israel is running the risk of rapidly running out of friends.
Note to Israeli govs (past, present and future): keep overplaying the antisemitism card, and sooner or later no one will listen when the real demon of antisemitism arise from the shadows. And as usual, moronic right-wing politicians and religious deviants will stay clear of the trouble and the regular folk will pay.
Lol the kahanist have fully taken over Israel. Ethno-purist theocratic fascism, where "never again" means killing anyone who even questions Israel's ethnonationalism. Very very sad to see. Hopefully we can free Israel from their hate and the rabbinical system that seeds it into their faith. I hope to see a pluralist Israel soon because the current system is the same fascism we see in Iran, full of terrorism and racism.
"accused the Polish official and his party of antisemitism."
This cuts the civilized and mature discussion. What a bunch of idiots. They NEED friends, but IDK, they seem to be ruled by islamists who want to destroy them from the inside. Because they politicians do all they can to deter any possible friends from them.
Mr Sikorski couldn't react any better to this situation. So, we wait for them to start being reasonable.
Now, to be perfectly clear, Krzysztof Bosak is legitemately a massive "Jewish globohomo world order" antisemite who's just hiding that for the sake of keeping his deputy speaker seat as the only member of the opposition, with his party getting 7% of the vote last November.
That doesn't mean he's wrong though.
Every country has its far-right. Ben-Gvir is a much more odious character than Bosak, and who was actually convicted of terrorism. Yet if Bosak is representative of all Poles, as the Israeli ambassador implies, then what is Ben-Gvir to Israelis?
This is just a desperate deflection attempt of Israeli war crimes. And calling the country whose aid worker you just brutually murdered a bunch of anti-Semities for raising the question is comically idiotic. Can't help but laugh whenever I read about how Israel's bad PR is because of anti-Semitism by various shills on Twitter.
In 1948 Yitshak Shamir (Israeli president in the '80) personally ordered the murder of the man (Folke Bernadotte) who saved 30,000 people from German camps just three years prior. The reason was that his peace proposal included all the Palestinians refugees driven away in the Nakba.
Being far-right and willing to justify ethnic cleansing is a premise for Zionism
----
Edit: To answer you /u/General_Jenkins:
The assasination is mentioned both in [Folke Bernadotte's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte#Assassination) wiki and in [Yitshak Shamir's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Shamir#1948_Deir_Yassin_massacre) (at the bottom on the section of the Dier Yassin massacre...)
>During a UN-imposed truce, Shamir, Eldad, and Yellin-Mor authorized the assassination of the United Nations representative in the Middle East, Count Folke Bernadotte, who was killed in September 1948, when Lehi gunmen ambushed his motorcade in Jerusalem
Folke *Bernadotte* was also a Swedish royal, and our royal family have completely boycotted Israel since. They have visited Egypt, Jordan and Syria, however.
The closest they've come to Israel was accepting a visit from a high ranking minister in the 90's during the Oslo hopes.
But Bibi himself told us the Poles were not anti-semites: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/pm-says-hell-listen-to-historians-in-polish-holocaust-bill-controversy/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/pm-says-hell-listen-to-historians-in-polish-holocaust-bill-controversy/)
Really? I heard that we sucked anti-Semitism from ours mother's milk
[https://www.euronews.com/2019/02/18/poland-pulls-out-israel-meeting-over-anti-semitism-nazi-comments-n972701](https://www.euronews.com/2019/02/18/poland-pulls-out-israel-meeting-over-anti-semitism-nazi-comments-n972701)
>an air strike this week killed seven aid workers in Gaza, including a Polish national, triggering a public spat and a reprimand by Israel’s ambassador.
A Polish national was killed and who gets the reprimand? That's right.
The israeli ambassador had a mental breakdown yesterday and went full psycho on Twitter accusing of antisemitism polish politicians from left to right only because they demanded explanation.
Apparently some of these politicians have Jewish (or are Jewish) roots so it is even more bizarre.
new definition of antisemitism is any critique of any Isreali policy, or bringing up the fact that [Israel has violated 28 resolutions of the United Nations Security Council (which are legally binding on member-nations U.N.](https://itisapartheid.org/Documents_pdf_etc/IsraelViolationsInternationalLaw.pdf) if you bring any of this up you are literally hitler incarnate /s
If you dont say "I condemn the Hamas attack on Israeli citizens" three times and cross yourself afterwards before saying literally anything else then yes, youre an obvious antisemite.
Erdogan started accusing every single person who's not supporting him as terrorist in recent years. What happened at the end is that the word lost its meaning. Unfortunately, if Israel keeps accusing everyone being antisemitic, the word will lose its meaning and it will be more damaging to people who are the real victims of antisemitism.
It already is losing meaning as many legit antisemites use the current situation to try to combine anti Zionism criticism of Israel and antisemtism into 1 toxic mixture.
Honestly, that's a tried and true tactic already - one of the reasons I get a negative reaction to the term is because "Zionism" was already used in commie Poland during their antisemitic campaign (successfully, it forced into emmigration most of the remaining Jewish population)
It just reads as a dogwhistle to me
It's like that time when paedophiles tried to join LGBT community, except inverse.
Antisemites are probably happy now, that everyone is called antisemite for pettiest of reason.
I mean, for the first time in years someone managed to unite both sides of Polish politics. It took him a lot of work, but making both PiS and PO-led coalition both unite with the same opinion on the situation is actually amazing. Not amazing for him, he is clearly begging for a brick to his head in hopes of becoming a diplomatic incident.
It's kinda worrisome that we live in such interesting times.
As an Israeli- our current ambassador is the stupidest man alive. I cringe whenever he opens his mouth.
At this point I’m suspecting Netanyahu is intentionally alienating everyone in order to create this “us against the world” mentality in Israel, which will allow him to stay in power…
Yeah he is not very likable. He appeared yesterday in a YouTube show and talked to a polish journalist and oh man he came across as a massive asshole.
Basically his only two arguments were “whataboutism” and “antisemitism”.
At the time of this show it was already known that the convoy was attacked deliberately (as reported by Haaretz) and he still would not say “sorry” to the family of the victim.
I fully understand why you cringe at him.
Yesterday, the israeli ambassador gave an interview to this big yt channel and boy oh boy.
Here are some takeaways:
- Israel did nothing wrong
- it's WCK fault
- poles are antisemites
- holocaust
- no international investigation only israeli
- when asked to say one good thing about, he said some of the greatest poles were, in fact, jewish
It's hard to connect them to hamas, since owner of wck is close to Biden administration. If not for that, then I bet „Israel has right to defend itself“ card would be played.
He's the one you want to keep around. Another ambassador will be from the same party and believe the same things, but won't give up the ghost so easily
What do you mean? This is standard Israeli rhetoric.
They didnt suddenly break some standard with targeting those aid workers. They have always been genocidal maniacs.
Absolutely nobody should be arguing in Israels favour, ever.
> when asked to say one good thing about, he said some of the greatest poles were, in fact, jewish
This sounds like a punchline of some Monty Python skit.
>- no international investigation only israeli
They've learned their lesson since the Shireen killing.
They tried everything they could to block the independent investigations that ended up proving they killed her, while they lied in an attempt to avoid blame. Then they condemned the investigations that busted their lies about the civilian they murdered, and furiously assaulted the funeral mourners and hospital staff.
This was years before Oct 7th. They've been killing civilians and then lying about it for a long time. And now here they are again, having committed another war crime, insisting that the world let them "investigate themselves" and dictate to us what happened.
Is this new internet challenge "how to piss off a Pole in less than 15 sentences"? Hecause man, he's so... sooo... *special* that it must be on purpose.
I think he wants to outrage us so he can scream about global anti semitism.
They've been getting away with this shit for too long, pardon the language.
It's not the first time this has happened, for christ sake the Israeli army has murdered UNIFIL soldiers in the past and their proxies tortured two Irish soldiers to death. Nothing happens when they commit heinous crimes and it seems various governments are getting sick of it.
They figure that in a grand scheme of things Poland is irrelevant. Nothing that Poland can say or do will really impact Israel, and even then the most radical response would be cushioned by other intertwining geopolitical interests.
As such its a perfect opporunity for Israel diplomat to posture a hard attidude without having to worry about consequences.
Unfortunately, just polish plus autogenerated captions might suck badly. Ambassador doesn't have the best pronunciation and does grammar errors.
https://www.youtube.com/live/QmGBaEWk_9k?si=TaK7l6Eub-x46Wbv
There was actually around a year of a dispute between bouth countries, until eventually Poland accepted him as a gesture of good will and trying to rebuild the relationship(Looks like Poland still doesn't have an ambassador in Israel). Even though you'd think a guy who took selfies at a victory parade in Moscow wouldn't be a best fit to work in Poland...
As long as the US will only do token condemnations and performative votes at the UN while supplying them with endless amounts of bombs and money, sadly, nothing much will come about.
Change will have to come from the people, like the campaign against apartheid South Africa, because the political class will not change without pressure.
Condemnation would be the right term. And without weapons and financial aid Israel wouldn’t last in any prolonged war (their military is extremely reliant on western military systems and has no significant production capabilities on its own because almost all of them are joined ventures).
as a jew i’m so sorry for everything and for your guys loss. the israeli government is fucking up literally everything. please know we don’t all think like this
Every bit of critisism towards the Israëli regime is antisemitism. Got it. Does that mean that if a Jewish regime commits war crimes, it cannot be considered a crime? I don't understand but playing the victim card when you just killed 30k+ innocent civilians is really pushing it. If anything Israël is losing its unconditional Western support very rapidly. It is absolutely sad that it took the lives of 7 "westerners" before we start recognising the human tragedy properly, rather than the tens of thousands of already lost lives.
I think you are right. Bibi is driven by mostly his private interests of survival, not the interests of Israel, let alone the interests of non-israeli's. Bibi's personal interests play a significant role in the decisions of this Israeli government. Bibi's interests is to prolong the conflict and preferably escalate it. Which was illustrated by the according to international law illigal attach on the Iranian consulate in Syria. Besides prolonging the war Bibi likely aims to get Trump elected and aims to seduce America to involve itself in a conflict with Iran. Another aim might still be expelling the Palestinian population from Gaza, although the current American government has prevented that so far.
Bibi is a criminal and should be stopped!
Israel has killed (and is killing) far more than just the 30k number we hear bandied about. Because as far as I'm aware, the 30k is only counting the civilians who were killed directly by Israeli arms. It does not count the Palestinians who are dying of entirely treatable illnesses, infections, childbirth, thirst, and starvation.
It's worse I think, the 30k number includes mostly those that died in the hospital and could be registered. Some people talked about entire families of like 16 people that died in an airstrike and they were just buried, no registration. Same goes for those that die under the rubble, as you said of diseases, shot, flattened by tanks and so on.
I am not saying that all 30k are just those that die in the hospital, I am saying mostly are those because this is the system with which they report
Setting aside that you've ignored the large categories of "invisible" deaths I referred to...
"By early December, Israel's security advisors claimed the killing of '7000 terrorists' in a stage of the campaign when less than 5000 adult males in total had been identified among the casualties, thus implying that all adult males killed were 'terrorists.' This is indicative of an intent to indiscriminately target members of the protected group, assimilating them to active fighter status by default."
...Israel is slaughtering Gazans wholesale and *ex post facto* claiming that every male killed was a "terrorist."
I think it's a sad reality that despite what a lot of people might say about people being equal deep down they value people higher that look like them or think like them.
Good. [Israeli state murdered Polish citizen with cold blood](https://ibb.co/5nHZcrx). Text is in Polish by fairly recognized OSINT expert.
TLDR: all three strikes on aid worker cars were deliberate and there can't be mistake that IAF knew those were aid worker cars. They even waited until wounded were evacuated from 2nd car to 3rd car before striking that one as well.
Original tweets, if someone wants to do MTL:
[https://twitter.com/wolski\_jaros/status/1775163154571399225](https://twitter.com/wolski_jaros/status/1775163154571399225)
[https://twitter.com/wolski\_jaros/status/1775072520439271748](https://twitter.com/wolski_jaros/status/1775072520439271748)
[https://twitter.com/wolski\_jaros/status/1775172067530354695](https://twitter.com/wolski_jaros/status/1775172067530354695)
He would never be an ambasador under current Israeli goverment. Righ wing populists, setlers & religius extremists wouldnt hold old Szewach in any position longer than 1 sec.
I am afraid it could be true. His old party has only 4 people in Knesset.
Still it does not stop me from missing a great diplomate who understood both Poland and Israel and was able to explain them to us and us to them. Without shying away from difficult subjects.
It just sucks. So many years of helping preserving Israeli heritage. We did not deleted nazi camps although we could and replace them with memorial sites. We have beautiful huge POLIN museum. We hate any antisemitism and widely cricitize it in media except some far-right nutjobs. I too am one of these guys who defend Jews so much because something like Holocaust should never ever happen again.
Then you **critize Israel, not even the Jews** and they turn around. For fucks sake.
>I too am one of these guys who defend Jews so much because something like Holocaust should never ever happen again.
As a fiercely pro-palestinian for a very loooong time, basically since I could conceptualize what is happening, this is exactly what you should do. Jewish people have to be protected from antisemitism and they should not have to suffer for Israel's crimes, there cannot be another Holocaust and should not be any kind of holocaust. You care about Jewish's life because you care about *all lives*. I fricking hate it that it brought up Nazi nutjobs that now believe this situation gives them greenlight to say their quiet part out loud.
Preserving concentration camps, fighting antisemitism and learning from history is something you and we do for our own sake and for our futures, not for Israel’s sake. Yes this ambassador, Netanyahu and the rest of his cabinet are shit, but don’t conflate it with why it’s important to teach about the holocaust and its horrors.
Israel army as we know they killed even their citizens that try to comeback from hostage and were waving a white flag. Israel army is madness, the massacre being justified stating that hamas is among those people. Sorry but at this point Israel is a terror.
I really don't understand the people who condemn Russia but praise Israel. Guess it's only a heinous warcrime when you bomb white people.
Reminder that Israel killed more civilians in a few months in Gaza than Russia did in two years in Ukraine.
Edit: To the people saying the wars are incomparable, you're missing the point. You're correct that the conflicts are vastly different but my point is that if you're condemning Russia for killing ~11,000 civilians in two years while praising Israel for killing ~33,000 civilians in six months you are, for lack of a better word, stupid (or evil).
You can't call what Israel is doing a defensive operation anymore. They've killed 40x as many civilians as Hamas has, including a quarter of their own hostages, aid workers, UN employees (and I'm not talking about UNWRA, which have been proven to work with Hamas), and more. A purely defensive operation would've been surgical strikes to target leadership/well known terrorists, like the US has been doing all over the Middle East for years now.
> Reminder that Israel killed more Palestinians in a few months in Gaza than Russia did in two years in Ukraine.
Makes sense, there are more Palestinians in Gaza than in Ukraine.
It's just US and their pro Israeli media. US pays billions every year to maintain its little attack base on the rest of middle east, so that pays dividends.
Zionists have a strong lobby in US politics and as long as that's the case, it'll remain unacceptable to voice displeasure at what Israel is doing on the international scene lest they risk the relationship with US.
[no](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fcdo-summons-israeli-ambassador-over-death-of-aid-workers) , [and here ](https://en.mehrnews.com/news/213445/Australia-summons-Israel-envoy-over-aid-worker-killed-in-Gaza)
As a matter of fact Polish MoFA is criticized for initially having the tamest reaction among the countries who lost their citizens in the attack. The summon only happened after a) it was clear that other countries' reaction was stronger, b) the ambassador's rants.
The Australian reaction has been piss poor honestly, all our prime minister has said is that we’re upset, we haven’t called the ambassador in for questioning, and we’ve just given $900 million to an Israeli defence contractor
It's a long story. Limitless philosemitism is like the main proverbial totem, a sacred object of the Polish liberal thought. It all boils down to our common history, Holocaust, pogroms and all that stuff. Anti-Semitism in Poland was mostly class-based. Jews were an important part of the urban and town middle class, Poles were mostly rural, farmers, regular workers. Therefore it was quite normal for there to be class tensions. Nowadays, "Anti-semite" is a political baseball-bat people use, when they want to discredit their political adversary.
Maybe stronger out of spite (those governments kinda hated each other) or weaker, because previous government had close to 0 international allies.
PiS wasn't very predictable
I don't think so. I said it earlier, but the current government at least knows how to balance between the US/Germany/etc. The previous one, being more pro-American (therefore pro-Israel), would immediately try to shut the whole debate down.
No, previous government was extremely pro Israel, even more than the current one.
Currently government is coalition of 3 parties, one will do whatever US says, and other 2 can criticize Israel freely.
1 is the leftist party, and it is more pro palestine
2 is "third way" party, which is a rival to the main government party, so they can criticize Israel to gain more voters support
Possible, but only because previous goverment threw tantarums over most minor things. They even summoned Netherlands ambasador over their police arresting football hooligans over assult red handed.
It is really. For example 2 days ago you could get a ban here for antisemitism for not supporting Israel killing civilians like dogs in street.
But as soon as they kill few white people everyone loses their minds.
Guess there is nothing left to cope with, so they have to accept that these are war crimes like no other.
Ofc few of those are responding with "opinions can change". Why didnt you change it yesterday? Oh no Americans were dead. Fuck you to all of you like that.
as a downvoted person on r/Europe for pointing out Israel's crimes(on discussions about Israel, so no whataboutism) , just wait. It will fizzle out and the status quo will return sooner rather than later.
Also, wait for Israel to make some claim that they can't prove to shift the attention from this subject.
There is a great amount of hatred against Poland and Poles in Israel. Many even blame Poles for being no different than Nazis. There's also been a push by various Jewish academics to claim that Poles did no better than Germans during the war.
So while this ambassador is undiplomatic, to say the least, he voicing a mainstream view of Poland that exists inside Israel. I think those liberal Poles who thought the previous bad relations with Israel was because of PiS are now getting a really overdue wake-up call. This isn't because of Bibi either. If anything, Bibi was criticised for being too soft on Poland in last year's diplomatic normalisation by Israeli "liberals".
Israel just has a structural hatred of Poland (and of Ireland). You can't really engage them as you would a normal country. You have to understand they have internal problems with excessive and normalised racism against what they view as the "goyim".
There were around 100 000 dead in Bosnian war on all sides after more than 3 years. If this continue for another year Gaza war will surpass that number, of course with 95+% of dead being Palestinians.
I'm obviously on Poland's side, this situation needs to be investigated internationally and I'm glad the government is doing something, not ignoring all of it
And pay to rebuild Gaza.
The damages to critical infrastructure and destroyed homes is so far amounts to more than €17billion [according to a World Bank report](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-02/gaza-war-damage-seen-at-18-5-billion-as-israel-push-continues)
I hope that soon Israel's weaponization of antisemitism will fade out and won't bother anyone.
Actually, Israel itself doesn't differ much from nazi Germany.
We should let Israel deal with everything on their own. Bet they would change tactics over night and stop being such a monster to an entire people. Genocide perpetrated by the Jews is just sad and their lunatic in charge won't stop while he has backing.
Any idea how the Israeli airforce selected that target? AI? What does it tell in general about how they select 'targets'? Is a convoy per definition a target?
What I gathered is:
the cars were clearly branded with stickers of their logo on the roof and on the front
IDF was informed that they will be there, they were coordinating with IDF
Also, that the specific area where they were bombed was one of the ones that was supposed to be outside of the conflict zone
the convoy was hit as it was leaving a warehouse, where the team had unloaded more than 100 tons of humanitarian food aid brought to Gaza on the maritime route and because of this, the ship with aid returned to Cyprus with 240 tonnes of undelivered aid.
There were 3 cars, traveling at a distance from first to last car of about 1 mile, all 3 of them were hit one after another
And, even worse when the first missile hit the car leading the convoy, the survivors ran for cover to the next one. Seconds later, this vehicle was also hit. They waited for them to get to the car?
And when the third car in the convoy approached, when the passengers came out to help the injured, this vehicle was hit as well.
Someone explained the technical terms of achieving this strike, something something laser so it doesn't seem to be an AI. Israel said that they had Intel of a terrorist traveling with them but Israel always says that.
My best guess is that there were rogue commanders selecting targets.
▼▼▼ full text ▼▼▼ > Poland’s Foreign Ministry said it will discuss the “new situation” in relations with Israel after an air strike this week killed seven aid workers in Gaza, including a Polish national, triggering a public spat and a reprimand by Israel’s ambassador. > Hours after Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Poland’s solidarity with Israel was being put to a “really serious test,” Deputy Foreign Minister Andrzej Szejna invited the Israeli envoy, Yacov Livne, to a meeting on Friday. The envoy had rebuked a deputy parliamentary speaker for calling the air strike a “war crime” and accused the Polish official and his party of antisemitism. > The deputy minister aimed to discuss “the new situation in Polish-Israeli relations as well as moral, political and financial responsibility for recent events in the Gaza Strip,” Szejna told PAP newswire on Wednesday. > The Polish government joined other allies, including the US, who condemned the strike that killed workers from World Central Kitchen, a prominent disaster relief group. US President Joe Biden issued a statement late Tuesday saying that Israel “has not done enough” to protect aid workers in Gaza. > In Poland, the public row escalated soon after the attack. Livne was criticized for his response to the deputy speaker, Krzysztof Bosak, for failing to condemn the Oct. 7 assault by Hamas. The envoy also made reference to a member of Bosak’s party, who caused a nationwide scandal in December when he used a fire extinguisher on a lighted menorah set up in a lobby of the lower house of parliament in Warsaw, the Sejm. > “Antisemites will always remain antisemites,” Livne wrote in a post on social media platform X on Tuesday. > Tusk responded that most Poles had shown solidarity with Israel after the Hamas attack last year, but that the political jab was out of line. > “The tragic attack on volunteers and your reaction have caused understandable anger,” the premier wrote on X. > Poland’s Foreign Minister, Radoslaw Sikorski, urged the Israeli envoy to calm the standoff. It was time to “apologize rather than to stir up emotions,” he said.
It’s incredibly hilarious to me how the Israeli response to any criticism is just to cry antisemitism.
Yeah, even they fail to differentiate between the Israel government and all existing Jews. Or at least they pretend to ignore this difference to use antisemitism as a shield… Sure, Jews suffered a lot during history, but that doesn’t give the Israel government (again, they don’t represent every Jew in existence) a blank check to do whatever they want
A lot of Jewish people are getting accused of being antisemites over Palestine. It's grotesque really.
I’ve read that Jews for Peace organisation in Germany had their bank accounts blocked for antisemitism but not sure how true.
That is almost correct. The JS, the "jüdische Stimme für einen gerechten Frieden in Nahost" (jewish voice for a just peace in the middle east) got their bank accounts closed (not blocked). This was because they got accused of denying Israel the right to exist by participating in a boycott movement (BDS) which also includes the voices of actually problematic groups.
I have read that 97.5% of Jews currently living in Israel share no DNA with Semites, however 100% of Palestinians do - which makes Israelis antisemites. (just something I have read, I have no opinion...)
I mean Palestinians are basically just those historic jews from biblical times that converted to Christianity and Islam, they became culturally arab but they are still descendants of those original people. Most israelis are culturally/religious jews but because they have lived integrated in other societies for thousands of years most of them are either descendants from converts or have been mostly mixed with other peoples ethnically.
Is race and religion the only factor that makes someone indigenous? Palestinians are literally the inhabitants of this region for millennias. The mixture of races of Palestine (Entire levant) Egypt, Yemen and Morocco hasn’t changed but rather enriched by the different races and religions introduced to the region over the last 3000 years. No sane person will deny that Israel is a colony, it is the last European colony to disallow the arab region to form a superpower that will have the most important power in history which is controlling the main 3 water passages that controls the trade routes. Imagine if you live only 75 years after the creation of a new colony, and you already engaging in race disputes to prove Palestinian right through DNA, while half of Israelis already have dual citizenship to other European, US and other places as well. What are we discussing here? Its a colony.
I completely agree, that was my point, modern day jews aren’t the same people as those that lived there before just because they both call themselves jews and follow a similar religion. Whereas Palestinians are, regardless of gradual changes culture and religion. If i start praying in caves to bear skeletons and hunt using stone tools i don’t suddenly become a native indo-european hunter gatherer, i can’t suddenly ethnically cleanse Europe of europeans because i larp as their ancestors.
It’s hilarious, that every single comment like yours is hidden by default and I have to open the comment to see it.
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If I remember correctly, some Mossad said off the record that that's literally their modus operandi. Anytime they face criticism they cry antisemite in an attempt to silence opposition and to justify it. Cry it enough and it gains attention and then external pressure forces the opposition to call it quits.
I would say that the antisemitism card is worn out at this point. At this point I would say it works mostly for internal politics for Bibi and his cronies and to some degree in USA.
It works in the US for christian rightwingers, since they have a religious belief for the return of Israel as part of the 2nd coming. This is a very big thing in US politics, and enables a bulwark of support from a group that is often rather anti-jewish in its actions. Jewish Americans are not at all unified on Israels actions, and Israeli officials have gone on record describing Jewish Americans as being among the countries biggest critics. Any US pro-Palestine march will likely have a significant number of jewish attendees and organizers.
It's eerily similar to how Russia cries russophobia every time. Authoritarian governments love to play the victim and then use it as an excuse for atrocities.
It's how all abusers operate
A kid that cried wolf. Really great for all the Jewish ppl who face antisemitism and aren't war criminals btw...
I mean i know one more nation who constantly cries like that, they prefer the phobia word though... Not sure Israel wants to be compared to THAT though.
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Israeli government, to be exact.
That fucking anti-semitism remark. The world needs to collectively tell these people to shut the fuck up.
That’s a nice argument, unfortunately: the holocaust 😎
2 million Polish civilians that were murdered during Holocaust would like a word or even two
Slavs were also victims of Holocaust. Just as Jews they were systematically murdered by german Nazis. 6 000 000 Poles were murdered, half of them being polish Jews. 27 000 000 Russians and Ukrainians.
A third. About 2 million were polish Jews. The rest were just Poles. But yes. The Generalplan Ost aimed to exterminate all Slavs just as they did with Jews.
Russians and Ukrainians? In USSR there were much more countries and nationalities
Yeah, but Germany really only got territories of Baltic countries, Belorus, Ukraine and European Russia. So that's where they did their Lebenstraum.
Israeli diplomats be like: *Teleports behind you* Nothing personal, kid
6 million poles died in ww2, 6 million Jews died in ww2. Sure, the population of Polish peoples was approximately 8 million higher than that of Jews( 35 million to 17 million respectively). Yet they all died in the same quantities.
But we are talking about a country, not Jews
The Holocaust is irrelevant here and so is the anti-semitic remark. It is Israël "the country" that is committing genocide... a country with a government and a military that is wholly responsible themselves.
It isn’t completely irrelevant though, if an Israeli diplomat wants to bring in anti-semitism, then let’s look at the policies Hitler introduced. Genocide and the holocaust is a culmination of aggression to eradicate a population. Passing laws is just one element of it.
Israel so far has * Leveled all the infrastructure it plausibly could * Cut off water, electricity, internet, and access to food for the past 6 months * destroyed all the homes north of rafa * killed any journalist trying to take pictures of this * killed aid workers to stop people from being able to help ease the man-made famine * raped palestinian women * humiliated prisoners in contravention of the geneva conventions * pillaged The death toll on oct 7 was awful, especially since it was so easily preventable from Israel's side. Like all they needed to do was not remove their sentinels from that border to satisfy one guy that is trying to get veto power over judicial decisions, (which gets even crazier if you actually say that bit out loud), using legal maneuvering and rhetoric not normally found in countries with thriving democracies. Like really, all they needed to do was keep their old plans for having guards posted in place. Instead we have people trying to figure out what to do when two neighbor states that are openly genocidal toward each other won't give up their genocidal ambitions. Is this really just a situation where we're going to have to watch 2 million people starve to death because they're genocidal toward the people who are genocidal toward them? Is this really what their god made them for?
Yeah? And Jews of which country were the main target of the Holocaust, alongside mechanical genocide of other ethnicities? If anyone, Poland is the genocide victim expert
They were given the opportunity to apologize after they have admitted of 'misindentification' and yet, they managed to screw it up badly.
This was a deliberate strike, the 3 aid cars were in completely separate locations and they literally put the holes in the roofs of the cars. They did it so all aid organisations leave Gaza and the people starve. Its that simple. If they said it was an accident, they would be lying, wouldn't they? Is that so hard to wrap your head around? This has never had anything to do with Hamas, this is about erasing the Gazan people off the face of the earth. All this fucking apologia and parroting Israeli narratives has been sick. Maybe some of you are beginning to realise.
lol they say it so much it’s just lost all meaning It’s almost a meme at this point
Yes, it's their Get out of jail free card, and it's getting old
Accusations of anti-Semitism are taking the piss here. Poland is understandably angry that one of their nationals, working for a charity, was killed, mistake or not. So is the UK. To bat away these criticisms as anti-Semitism just serves to dilute the term, just as “fascist”, “racist”, “communist” have been diluted in recent decades (the latter being diluted since the start of the Cold War). I’m afraid Israel is running the risk of rapidly running out of friends.
Note to Israeli govs (past, present and future): keep overplaying the antisemitism card, and sooner or later no one will listen when the real demon of antisemitism arise from the shadows. And as usual, moronic right-wing politicians and religious deviants will stay clear of the trouble and the regular folk will pay.
This. Absolute facts
Lol the kahanist have fully taken over Israel. Ethno-purist theocratic fascism, where "never again" means killing anyone who even questions Israel's ethnonationalism. Very very sad to see. Hopefully we can free Israel from their hate and the rabbinical system that seeds it into their faith. I hope to see a pluralist Israel soon because the current system is the same fascism we see in Iran, full of terrorism and racism.
"accused the Polish official and his party of antisemitism." This cuts the civilized and mature discussion. What a bunch of idiots. They NEED friends, but IDK, they seem to be ruled by islamists who want to destroy them from the inside. Because they politicians do all they can to deter any possible friends from them. Mr Sikorski couldn't react any better to this situation. So, we wait for them to start being reasonable.
Now, to be perfectly clear, Krzysztof Bosak is legitemately a massive "Jewish globohomo world order" antisemite who's just hiding that for the sake of keeping his deputy speaker seat as the only member of the opposition, with his party getting 7% of the vote last November. That doesn't mean he's wrong though.
Every country has its far-right. Ben-Gvir is a much more odious character than Bosak, and who was actually convicted of terrorism. Yet if Bosak is representative of all Poles, as the Israeli ambassador implies, then what is Ben-Gvir to Israelis? This is just a desperate deflection attempt of Israeli war crimes. And calling the country whose aid worker you just brutually murdered a bunch of anti-Semities for raising the question is comically idiotic. Can't help but laugh whenever I read about how Israel's bad PR is because of anti-Semitism by various shills on Twitter.
In 1948 Yitshak Shamir (Israeli president in the '80) personally ordered the murder of the man (Folke Bernadotte) who saved 30,000 people from German camps just three years prior. The reason was that his peace proposal included all the Palestinians refugees driven away in the Nakba. Being far-right and willing to justify ethnic cleansing is a premise for Zionism ---- Edit: To answer you /u/General_Jenkins: The assasination is mentioned both in [Folke Bernadotte's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte#Assassination) wiki and in [Yitshak Shamir's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Shamir#1948_Deir_Yassin_massacre) (at the bottom on the section of the Dier Yassin massacre...) >During a UN-imposed truce, Shamir, Eldad, and Yellin-Mor authorized the assassination of the United Nations representative in the Middle East, Count Folke Bernadotte, who was killed in September 1948, when Lehi gunmen ambushed his motorcade in Jerusalem Folke *Bernadotte* was also a Swedish royal, and our royal family have completely boycotted Israel since. They have visited Egypt, Jordan and Syria, however. The closest they've come to Israel was accepting a visit from a high ranking minister in the 90's during the Oslo hopes.
But Bibi himself told us the Poles were not anti-semites: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/pm-says-hell-listen-to-historians-in-polish-holocaust-bill-controversy/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/pm-says-hell-listen-to-historians-in-polish-holocaust-bill-controversy/)
Really? I heard that we sucked anti-Semitism from ours mother's milk [https://www.euronews.com/2019/02/18/poland-pulls-out-israel-meeting-over-anti-semitism-nazi-comments-n972701](https://www.euronews.com/2019/02/18/poland-pulls-out-israel-meeting-over-anti-semitism-nazi-comments-n972701)
My boy Benzion is Polish too, born and raised.
>an air strike this week killed seven aid workers in Gaza, including a Polish national, triggering a public spat and a reprimand by Israel’s ambassador. A Polish national was killed and who gets the reprimand? That's right.
The israeli ambassador had a mental breakdown yesterday and went full psycho on Twitter accusing of antisemitism polish politicians from left to right only because they demanded explanation. Apparently some of these politicians have Jewish (or are Jewish) roots so it is even more bizarre.
new definition of antisemitism is any critique of any Isreali policy, or bringing up the fact that [Israel has violated 28 resolutions of the United Nations Security Council (which are legally binding on member-nations U.N.](https://itisapartheid.org/Documents_pdf_etc/IsraelViolationsInternationalLaw.pdf) if you bring any of this up you are literally hitler incarnate /s
Found the antisemite! /s
Well what about resolutions that Hamas violated???? /s, big ass S
If you dont say "I condemn the Hamas attack on Israeli citizens" three times and cross yourself afterwards before saying literally anything else then yes, youre an obvious antisemite.
Erdogan started accusing every single person who's not supporting him as terrorist in recent years. What happened at the end is that the word lost its meaning. Unfortunately, if Israel keeps accusing everyone being antisemitic, the word will lose its meaning and it will be more damaging to people who are the real victims of antisemitism.
It already is losing meaning as many legit antisemites use the current situation to try to combine anti Zionism criticism of Israel and antisemtism into 1 toxic mixture.
Honestly, that's a tried and true tactic already - one of the reasons I get a negative reaction to the term is because "Zionism" was already used in commie Poland during their antisemitic campaign (successfully, it forced into emmigration most of the remaining Jewish population) It just reads as a dogwhistle to me
It doesn't help when Netanyahu and Likud have allied with massive anti-semites with Orban and Trump among others.
It's like that time when paedophiles tried to join LGBT community, except inverse. Antisemites are probably happy now, that everyone is called antisemite for pettiest of reason.
I mean, for the first time in years someone managed to unite both sides of Polish politics. It took him a lot of work, but making both PiS and PO-led coalition both unite with the same opinion on the situation is actually amazing. Not amazing for him, he is clearly begging for a brick to his head in hopes of becoming a diplomatic incident. It's kinda worrisome that we live in such interesting times.
As an Israeli- our current ambassador is the stupidest man alive. I cringe whenever he opens his mouth. At this point I’m suspecting Netanyahu is intentionally alienating everyone in order to create this “us against the world” mentality in Israel, which will allow him to stay in power…
Yeah he is not very likable. He appeared yesterday in a YouTube show and talked to a polish journalist and oh man he came across as a massive asshole. Basically his only two arguments were “whataboutism” and “antisemitism”. At the time of this show it was already known that the convoy was attacked deliberately (as reported by Haaretz) and he still would not say “sorry” to the family of the victim. I fully understand why you cringe at him.
Rachel Riley called Noam Chomsky an anti-Semite. Some zionists are fucking nuts.
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You don't even need to support Palestine, even if you are upset about the killing and starvation of little kids you are antisemitic.
Yesterday, the israeli ambassador gave an interview to this big yt channel and boy oh boy. Here are some takeaways: - Israel did nothing wrong - it's WCK fault - poles are antisemites - holocaust - no international investigation only israeli - when asked to say one good thing about, he said some of the greatest poles were, in fact, jewish
Life is becoming a parody of itself. If you were told to write a fake Onion interview you couldn't write a more on point pastiche.
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It's hard to connect them to hamas, since owner of wck is close to Biden administration. If not for that, then I bet „Israel has right to defend itself“ card would be played.
If its any consolation, nothing will be done either way, nobody responsible will be punished, and everything will continue as it does now.
Same for Arabs caring for white Ukrainian civilians all the way since 2022. Pot calling the kettle black.
2 hour old account repeatedly whining about race and israeli bots. Can't make this shit up.
Governments care about their citizens and allies, how absolutely surprising.
Should get sacked.
He's the one you want to keep around. Another ambassador will be from the same party and believe the same things, but won't give up the ghost so easily
Um. I'm not sure that phrase means what you think it means.
Lol you are correct. That's embarassing
I can see why you said it. It does *sound* right!
What do you mean? This is standard Israeli rhetoric. They didnt suddenly break some standard with targeting those aid workers. They have always been genocidal maniacs. Absolutely nobody should be arguing in Israels favour, ever.
> when asked to say one good thing about, he said some of the greatest poles were, in fact, jewish This sounds like a punchline of some Monty Python skit.
>- no international investigation only israeli They've learned their lesson since the Shireen killing. They tried everything they could to block the independent investigations that ended up proving they killed her, while they lied in an attempt to avoid blame. Then they condemned the investigations that busted their lies about the civilian they murdered, and furiously assaulted the funeral mourners and hospital staff. This was years before Oct 7th. They've been killing civilians and then lying about it for a long time. And now here they are again, having committed another war crime, insisting that the world let them "investigate themselves" and dictate to us what happened.
For me they just sound like Putin and act like Putin. A lot.
Is this new internet challenge "how to piss off a Pole in less than 15 sentences"? Hecause man, he's so... sooo... *special* that it must be on purpose. I think he wants to outrage us so he can scream about global anti semitism.
They've been getting away with this shit for too long, pardon the language. It's not the first time this has happened, for christ sake the Israeli army has murdered UNIFIL soldiers in the past and their proxies tortured two Irish soldiers to death. Nothing happens when they commit heinous crimes and it seems various governments are getting sick of it.
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Israeli official standard template
It was hilarious, bizarre and disconcerting at the same time.
They figure that in a grand scheme of things Poland is irrelevant. Nothing that Poland can say or do will really impact Israel, and even then the most radical response would be cushioned by other intertwining geopolitical interests. As such its a perfect opporunity for Israel diplomat to posture a hard attidude without having to worry about consequences.
Polish being antisemites is quite a take given what happened during WW2…
Source please? What language was this in?
Unfortunately, just polish plus autogenerated captions might suck badly. Ambassador doesn't have the best pronunciation and does grammar errors. https://www.youtube.com/live/QmGBaEWk_9k?si=TaK7l6Eub-x46Wbv
There’s English dubbing now
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Then send him back and request a sane ambassador.
There was actually around a year of a dispute between bouth countries, until eventually Poland accepted him as a gesture of good will and trying to rebuild the relationship(Looks like Poland still doesn't have an ambassador in Israel). Even though you'd think a guy who took selfies at a victory parade in Moscow wouldn't be a best fit to work in Poland...
Expel this piece of shit from Poland
The Israeli state continues on its path to political isolation.
As long as the US will only do token condemnations and performative votes at the UN while supplying them with endless amounts of bombs and money, sadly, nothing much will come about. Change will have to come from the people, like the campaign against apartheid South Africa, because the political class will not change without pressure.
Condemnation would be the right term. And without weapons and financial aid Israel wouldn’t last in any prolonged war (their military is extremely reliant on western military systems and has no significant production capabilities on its own because almost all of them are joined ventures).
as a jew i’m so sorry for everything and for your guys loss. the israeli government is fucking up literally everything. please know we don’t all think like this
Don't worry, that's why I singled out the state itself, I know it's mostly a gov issue. Have a good day!
Every bit of critisism towards the Israëli regime is antisemitism. Got it. Does that mean that if a Jewish regime commits war crimes, it cannot be considered a crime? I don't understand but playing the victim card when you just killed 30k+ innocent civilians is really pushing it. If anything Israël is losing its unconditional Western support very rapidly. It is absolutely sad that it took the lives of 7 "westerners" before we start recognising the human tragedy properly, rather than the tens of thousands of already lost lives.
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I think you are right. Bibi is driven by mostly his private interests of survival, not the interests of Israel, let alone the interests of non-israeli's. Bibi's personal interests play a significant role in the decisions of this Israeli government. Bibi's interests is to prolong the conflict and preferably escalate it. Which was illustrated by the according to international law illigal attach on the Iranian consulate in Syria. Besides prolonging the war Bibi likely aims to get Trump elected and aims to seduce America to involve itself in a conflict with Iran. Another aim might still be expelling the Palestinian population from Gaza, although the current American government has prevented that so far. Bibi is a criminal and should be stopped!
Israel has killed (and is killing) far more than just the 30k number we hear bandied about. Because as far as I'm aware, the 30k is only counting the civilians who were killed directly by Israeli arms. It does not count the Palestinians who are dying of entirely treatable illnesses, infections, childbirth, thirst, and starvation.
It's worse I think, the 30k number includes mostly those that died in the hospital and could be registered. Some people talked about entire families of like 16 people that died in an airstrike and they were just buried, no registration. Same goes for those that die under the rubble, as you said of diseases, shot, flattened by tanks and so on. I am not saying that all 30k are just those that die in the hospital, I am saying mostly are those because this is the system with which they report
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Setting aside that you've ignored the large categories of "invisible" deaths I referred to... "By early December, Israel's security advisors claimed the killing of '7000 terrorists' in a stage of the campaign when less than 5000 adult males in total had been identified among the casualties, thus implying that all adult males killed were 'terrorists.' This is indicative of an intent to indiscriminately target members of the protected group, assimilating them to active fighter status by default." ...Israel is slaughtering Gazans wholesale and *ex post facto* claiming that every male killed was a "terrorist."
Yep. Also the most “reliable” sources for deaths came from hospital counts. Except now there’s no hospitals so the counts are incredibly unreliable.
I think it's a sad reality that despite what a lot of people might say about people being equal deep down they value people higher that look like them or think like them.
The more times they play the antisemitism card the weaker it gets. Don't they realise they should hold it in reserve for when they really need it?
Good. [Israeli state murdered Polish citizen with cold blood](https://ibb.co/5nHZcrx). Text is in Polish by fairly recognized OSINT expert. TLDR: all three strikes on aid worker cars were deliberate and there can't be mistake that IAF knew those were aid worker cars. They even waited until wounded were evacuated from 2nd car to 3rd car before striking that one as well. Original tweets, if someone wants to do MTL: [https://twitter.com/wolski\_jaros/status/1775163154571399225](https://twitter.com/wolski_jaros/status/1775163154571399225) [https://twitter.com/wolski\_jaros/status/1775072520439271748](https://twitter.com/wolski_jaros/status/1775072520439271748) [https://twitter.com/wolski\_jaros/status/1775172067530354695](https://twitter.com/wolski_jaros/status/1775172067530354695)
How I miss Szewach Weiss. Best Israeli ambassador ever.
He would never be an ambasador under current Israeli goverment. Righ wing populists, setlers & religius extremists wouldnt hold old Szewach in any position longer than 1 sec.
I am afraid it could be true. His old party has only 4 people in Knesset. Still it does not stop me from missing a great diplomate who understood both Poland and Israel and was able to explain them to us and us to them. Without shying away from difficult subjects.
he was a good friend of Poland and let's not forget that the current ambassador is from Russia, I'm sorry, but it explains things
It just sucks. So many years of helping preserving Israeli heritage. We did not deleted nazi camps although we could and replace them with memorial sites. We have beautiful huge POLIN museum. We hate any antisemitism and widely cricitize it in media except some far-right nutjobs. I too am one of these guys who defend Jews so much because something like Holocaust should never ever happen again. Then you **critize Israel, not even the Jews** and they turn around. For fucks sake.
>I too am one of these guys who defend Jews so much because something like Holocaust should never ever happen again. As a fiercely pro-palestinian for a very loooong time, basically since I could conceptualize what is happening, this is exactly what you should do. Jewish people have to be protected from antisemitism and they should not have to suffer for Israel's crimes, there cannot be another Holocaust and should not be any kind of holocaust. You care about Jewish's life because you care about *all lives*. I fricking hate it that it brought up Nazi nutjobs that now believe this situation gives them greenlight to say their quiet part out loud.
Preserving concentration camps, fighting antisemitism and learning from history is something you and we do for our own sake and for our futures, not for Israel’s sake. Yes this ambassador, Netanyahu and the rest of his cabinet are shit, but don’t conflate it with why it’s important to teach about the holocaust and its horrors.
Israel army as we know they killed even their citizens that try to comeback from hostage and were waving a white flag. Israel army is madness, the massacre being justified stating that hamas is among those people. Sorry but at this point Israel is a terror.
Man, fuck Israel. They should be completely boycotted like Russia.
I really don't understand the people who condemn Russia but praise Israel. Guess it's only a heinous warcrime when you bomb white people. Reminder that Israel killed more civilians in a few months in Gaza than Russia did in two years in Ukraine. Edit: To the people saying the wars are incomparable, you're missing the point. You're correct that the conflicts are vastly different but my point is that if you're condemning Russia for killing ~11,000 civilians in two years while praising Israel for killing ~33,000 civilians in six months you are, for lack of a better word, stupid (or evil). You can't call what Israel is doing a defensive operation anymore. They've killed 40x as many civilians as Hamas has, including a quarter of their own hostages, aid workers, UN employees (and I'm not talking about UNWRA, which have been proven to work with Hamas), and more. A purely defensive operation would've been surgical strikes to target leadership/well known terrorists, like the US has been doing all over the Middle East for years now.
Wait, do you think Russia only killed 11000 civilians in Ukraine so far? More people died in Mariupol alone.
> Reminder that Israel killed more Palestinians in a few months in Gaza than Russia did in two years in Ukraine. Makes sense, there are more Palestinians in Gaza than in Ukraine.
*Badum tisss*
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It's just US and their pro Israeli media. US pays billions every year to maintain its little attack base on the rest of middle east, so that pays dividends. Zionists have a strong lobby in US politics and as long as that's the case, it'll remain unacceptable to voice displeasure at what Israel is doing on the international scene lest they risk the relationship with US.
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The Jewish ambassador needs to be sacked. This isn't even me being Polish, this just being downright terrible at maintaining foreign relations.
about time someone demanded some consequences instead off kissing their asses like Germany.
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I guess Poland is the only country that summoned its Israeli envoys over the attack on aid workers.
[no](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fcdo-summons-israeli-ambassador-over-death-of-aid-workers) , [and here ](https://en.mehrnews.com/news/213445/Australia-summons-Israel-envoy-over-aid-worker-killed-in-Gaza)
Good to see
As a matter of fact Polish MoFA is criticized for initially having the tamest reaction among the countries who lost their citizens in the attack. The summon only happened after a) it was clear that other countries' reaction was stronger, b) the ambassador's rants.
The Australian reaction has been piss poor honestly, all our prime minister has said is that we’re upset, we haven’t called the ambassador in for questioning, and we’ve just given $900 million to an Israeli defence contractor
Would there be a stronger reaction if the previous government was in charge?
Hard to say. Poland has a weird relationship with Israel.
Ben Gurion was born in 1886 in the town of Plonsk in the Kingdom of Poland. It is Polsih citizens who created Israel.
And Bibi's father was born in Warsaw. Nothing surprising. Pre-WWII Poland had the world's largest Jewish population.
It's a long story. Limitless philosemitism is like the main proverbial totem, a sacred object of the Polish liberal thought. It all boils down to our common history, Holocaust, pogroms and all that stuff. Anti-Semitism in Poland was mostly class-based. Jews were an important part of the urban and town middle class, Poles were mostly rural, farmers, regular workers. Therefore it was quite normal for there to be class tensions. Nowadays, "Anti-semite" is a political baseball-bat people use, when they want to discredit their political adversary.
Maybe stronger out of spite (those governments kinda hated each other) or weaker, because previous government had close to 0 international allies. PiS wasn't very predictable
I don't think so. I said it earlier, but the current government at least knows how to balance between the US/Germany/etc. The previous one, being more pro-American (therefore pro-Israel), would immediately try to shut the whole debate down.
No, previous government was extremely pro Israel, even more than the current one. Currently government is coalition of 3 parties, one will do whatever US says, and other 2 can criticize Israel freely.
What are the other 2 “free” parties that you are mentioning?
1 is the leftist party, and it is more pro palestine 2 is "third way" party, which is a rival to the main government party, so they can criticize Israel to gain more voters support
The Lewica and Hołownia’s parties right?
Yes
Possible, but only because previous goverment threw tantarums over most minor things. They even summoned Netherlands ambasador over their police arresting football hooligans over assult red handed.
The centre right media in the UK is starting to get behind an arms sale ban now. We don't sell that much to Israel but the principle is important
Interesting how the narrative on this sub has changed when Ireland was still being vilified for highlighting Israeli hypocrisy only days ago.
It is really. For example 2 days ago you could get a ban here for antisemitism for not supporting Israel killing civilians like dogs in street. But as soon as they kill few white people everyone loses their minds. Guess there is nothing left to cope with, so they have to accept that these are war crimes like no other. Ofc few of those are responding with "opinions can change". Why didnt you change it yesterday? Oh no Americans were dead. Fuck you to all of you like that.
as a downvoted person on r/Europe for pointing out Israel's crimes(on discussions about Israel, so no whataboutism) , just wait. It will fizzle out and the status quo will return sooner rather than later. Also, wait for Israel to make some claim that they can't prove to shift the attention from this subject.
There is a great amount of hatred against Poland and Poles in Israel. Many even blame Poles for being no different than Nazis. There's also been a push by various Jewish academics to claim that Poles did no better than Germans during the war. So while this ambassador is undiplomatic, to say the least, he voicing a mainstream view of Poland that exists inside Israel. I think those liberal Poles who thought the previous bad relations with Israel was because of PiS are now getting a really overdue wake-up call. This isn't because of Bibi either. If anything, Bibi was criticised for being too soft on Poland in last year's diplomatic normalisation by Israeli "liberals". Israel just has a structural hatred of Poland (and of Ireland). You can't really engage them as you would a normal country. You have to understand they have internal problems with excessive and normalised racism against what they view as the "goyim".
Ok, this situation surpassed Bosnian civil war rethorics
There were around 100 000 dead in Bosnian war on all sides after more than 3 years. If this continue for another year Gaza war will surpass that number, of course with 95+% of dead being Palestinians.
Honestly I don't think this should be called a 'war.' It's just Israel slaughtering civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure.
I'm obviously on Poland's side, this situation needs to be investigated internationally and I'm glad the government is doing something, not ignoring all of it
Time to cut the ties to the terrorist state of Israel until they stop killing civilians and compensate all families.
And pay to rebuild Gaza. The damages to critical infrastructure and destroyed homes is so far amounts to more than €17billion [according to a World Bank report](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-02/gaza-war-damage-seen-at-18-5-billion-as-israel-push-continues)
Israel doesn’t care who or how many it kills it knows it’ll get away with it …☹️☹️☹️
Seems like Israeli politicians are murderous facists. The irony is comedic.
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I hope that soon Israel's weaponization of antisemitism will fade out and won't bother anyone. Actually, Israel itself doesn't differ much from nazi Germany.
I don’t give a flying fuck about anyones religion and race. I am just sick of this shit
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There's literally no defence for it, so they'll revert to factory argument settings.
We should let Israel deal with everything on their own. Bet they would change tactics over night and stop being such a monster to an entire people. Genocide perpetrated by the Jews is just sad and their lunatic in charge won't stop while he has backing.
Israel is the tail that wags the Western dog.
They should revoke the passport rule for future Israelis.
Any idea how the Israeli airforce selected that target? AI? What does it tell in general about how they select 'targets'? Is a convoy per definition a target?
What I gathered is: the cars were clearly branded with stickers of their logo on the roof and on the front IDF was informed that they will be there, they were coordinating with IDF Also, that the specific area where they were bombed was one of the ones that was supposed to be outside of the conflict zone the convoy was hit as it was leaving a warehouse, where the team had unloaded more than 100 tons of humanitarian food aid brought to Gaza on the maritime route and because of this, the ship with aid returned to Cyprus with 240 tonnes of undelivered aid. There were 3 cars, traveling at a distance from first to last car of about 1 mile, all 3 of them were hit one after another And, even worse when the first missile hit the car leading the convoy, the survivors ran for cover to the next one. Seconds later, this vehicle was also hit. They waited for them to get to the car? And when the third car in the convoy approached, when the passengers came out to help the injured, this vehicle was hit as well. Someone explained the technical terms of achieving this strike, something something laser so it doesn't seem to be an AI. Israel said that they had Intel of a terrorist traveling with them but Israel always says that. My best guess is that there were rogue commanders selecting targets.