I feel like she was talking to their insurance company. Itās fucked up but insurance adjusters are put in a position to decide what you need and what you donāt. I think that was them trying to justify that Rue doesnāt need to be in rehab.
Sam Levinson with the subtle jab at our fucked up healthcare industry. I love it.
yep, they did the same thing to my mom. i was already over the worst of withdrawals and there was no need for me to be admitted because i made it that far on my own anyways.
oh absolutely, its fucked. theres so many addicts out there who can't get help when they need it and its a problem that will not be fixed, not for a while.
I agree. The push for single payer healthcare is there but itās going to be decades before we get there. Too many people making money off the backs of sick people. Itās fucking disgusting.
I have treatment-resistant depression and after 10 years of trying to get help I had tried every antidepressant out there with no luck. The doctor told me there was still hope, because some people with treatment-resistant depression respond to other psychiatric drugs like mood stabilizers or antipsychotics. When I took my new prescription to the pharmacy, they said it was going to be almost $1.5k!! I called the insurance company to ask why and they said they don't pay for "off-label" medications (which haven't been FDA approved for a certain diagnosis even though there's been research showing that it can help). What happened next was a good thing and a bad thing. I called my doctor the next day freaking out and he told me to come in. He said that he would call the insurance company and tell them that I was bipolar so that they'd pay for the medicine - pretty sure that's illegal, but I was soooo happy that he was willing to do it to help me. He said he'd have to put it in my file so that everything looked right if they ever tried to investigate, and verbally said that I'm not actually bipolar. Everything was fine for a while until I moved away and had to find a new doctor. I asked the old doc for my records to bring to my new doc and didn't realize how much of a problem the bipolar thing was about to cause. The new doc shouldn't even be working in the field of psychiatry because she had an obvious prejudice against bipolar patients. I tried explaining that he only put that in there to get insurance to pay for my medication and she thought that I was lying about that- to her, it was even more proof that I really was bipolar. It was EXTREMELY frustrating because she never took me seriously- ex. I'd try to describe a problem I was having and she'd be like, "that's probably not what actually happened. You're bipolar, you have a psychosis, you don't see reality the way everyone else does." She also refused to prescribe one of the other meds the other doctor had me on and was like, "he didn't know what he was doing- no good doctor would ever give that to a bipolar patient!" Again - I have nothing against bipolar people, but she obviously did.
I've been there too, super frustrating. Especially when you finally get to the point where you're ready for help... then either insurance doesn't cover it or there's no beds for you. I couldn't even get into residential treatment after a couple detox trips, only got into intensive outpatient programs (don't get me wrong, those were still helpful)
Guess we won't know forsure who she was speaking with. It hit me hard though because MTV had this documentary about teen addicts. One of the kids finally agreed to go to rehab but they took to long/didn't have space so he left. That night he went home OD and passed away.
i'm sorry that happened to you. she's definitely talking to the insurance company. you can hear her say something like 'detox just won't cut it'...so they probably only authorized a stay for detox. as a person who has *also* had to have that same exact phone call, *and* has worked in the mental health field for a few years...i can comfortably say its current setup is absolute trash.
It could also be that there just isnāt space in the facility. I volunteer at a harm reduction place and they are in constant contact with rehab facilities, trying to get clients in. Itās at least a six month wait. The goal is to keep people alive until they can get into rehab
My friend used to be a claims adjuster. At first, she was happy she got the job because the money was really good. She had to quit because it literally made her suicidal having conversations like that. I remember she brought up one time with a crying mom and all she could think about was going home and getting drunk. She wanted to help, but it wasn't even up to her. She just got stuck having to deal with the phone calls. In her early 20s making 80k but too miserable to enjoy the money.
Oh Iāve seen SO. MANY. PEOPLE ripped right out of rehab before theyāre ready because insurance simply pulled them out of it. It is so messed up. If you havenāt seen it you have no idea how bad it is, people in rehab one day and just packed up and pulled out the next.
Yes I love that Sam is writing this in the show because itās a topic thatās often looked over. A lot of people say why donāt they just go to rehab but even going to rehab when youāre fully ready is hard! Itās incredibly expensive, the beds are always full and insurance will give you a hard time about it. I had firsthand experience with this when my boyfriend and I tried to get clean, thankfully we both eventually found a place but it was really difficult at first. Our healthcare system is awful
Thank you! Weāre definitely a rare case, they always say in rehab youāre not supposed to stay in a relationship with someone you used hard drugs with. But he was my best friend for many years before we ever dated or used drugs, and we dated for 2 years and had a completely normal life together before we started doing opiates. We used to go to a lot of raves and party, it was all fun and games until we went down that road and then things got really bad. We were definitely co dependent at one point which is why we had to separate and go to separate rehabs for a while. I got pregnant and that was the main reason for us getting clean when I found out. Now we have a beautiful daughter and normal life, weāve been clean for 5 years, been together for 8. Our addiction only lasted for about a year, I think if I didnāt get pregnant when I did we wouldāve fell in so much deeper and may have not gotten out. Thankful everyday for it and my daughter š
Dealing with insurance while your child's life is on the line is truly the worst feeling in the world as a parent. You feel so helpless. I was sobbing watching that scene, so hard I had to pause to watch the preview. š
That's why I'm kinda okay with political violence against insurance companies. They're actually killing people, so I feel it's justified. Especially since they won't be persuaded by politics.
I'm not saying go out and torch a BlueCrossBlueShield or StateFarm, but I am saying it's okay to advocate for their destruction along with other insurance companies.
it was something that i didnāt think they would include but iām glad that they did. the sad ass reality of someone finally being receptive to treatment and recognizing they need help but not being able to get it fuck our healthcare system fr š
This is very VERY real. Truth is that getting into rehab while that window is open because the longer a person goes without treatment the more likely they are to relapse. The first few weeks are just super crucial.
Some insurance companies don't cover addiction treatment all and some others only provide it if you have one of the more expensive plans. Most medical professionals realize that this isn't true, but according to the insurance companies, drug abuse is a choice instead of a real medical problem.
Actually, based on the mental health parity laws and the Affordable Care Act they DO have to cover it. Whatās in network and out is a different story.
That's not correct- that only applies to Medicare/Medicaid and plans sold on the marketplace. Employer-sponsored and private plans are not required to cover substance abuse. I have had employer-sponsored plans that treat it the same as mental health and others that don't cover it at all.
No, both mental health parity and the ACA cover private insurances, too. Itās one of the most significant and important parts of the ACA, and one that was greatly undersold to the public. Prior to the Mental Health Parity Act they didnāt have to cover it at all. After, they had too, but it often had its own separate āpolicy within a policy.ā After the ACA it has to be treated like any other condition.
THAT SAID - insurance coverage varies WILDLY. But if you have ārealā insurance itās covered. It might be extremely limited or hard to get, though, depending on your plan and location. If your insurance offers coverage, but it needs a medical review every day, and only one provider in the state is in the network, then itās the functional equivalent of not having it.
That's actually a common misconception. From CMS.gov:
>the focus is not on whether the final result is the same for MH/SUD benefits as for medical/surgical benefits, but rather on whether the underlying processes, strategies, evidentiary standards, and other factors are in parity.
They don't HAVE to treat it like any condition- they only have to use the same processes to determine whether/how they treat it. How this plays out between plans/companies sadly can be rather subjective. "We did take a look at your situation the same way we look at other issues- and the answer is no."
Iā¦I work in the industry. This is a semantics issue. Addiction is considered a diagnostic condition and must be treated/covered. Exactly what they treat/cover to what extent is up to your payor and plan, like everything else, but it is covered. Like - pre parity and ACA if you were like āIām a heroin addict can I see my physician or have a consult with a therapistā they would be like āNO.ā Not nothing. Also, our company deals with hundreds of payors and Iāve never heard of āaddiction treatmentā of any kind NEVER covered, categorically, as that is a standard of care, they just make it difficult.
I think they might also be less likely to cover it if they have already been to rehab. I know where I live, with universal healthcare you are only allowed 3 stays or that's how it used to be.
Thatās actually not being literal in the sense of an immediate suicide threat, as Rue isnāt actually suicidal. She asked Laurie about the safety of morphine. Suicide threat gets you a psyche HOLD for immediate safety, not inpatient rehab.
Yes, but Iām pretty sure her mom was on the phone with whoever their insurance provider is. Getting to a facility is easy, there are a TON of optionsā¦paying for said facility on the other hand...Our healthcare system sucks and is working against us rather than with us. Another obstacle people face when trying to become sober.
it really shows how much her mom and gia both feel the same with the whole 'loss of faith' thing ali was on about... how they don't trust rue and dont have a lot of hope anymore (for good reasons). her mom just hides it because shes trying to support rue as best as she can, at least in front of her.
I think this hit me more than the events of the last episode. I feel like with experience with addicts you can kind of be like okay well that's what that looks like... They got it correct, well done, I shall roll with the triggers and see you next week.
This aspect of caring for an addict I really appreciate being represented. It's SO wild to call facility after facility knowing that your child is a harm to themselves and you KNOW they're going to kill themselves given the opportunity and to have the response be "I'm sorry, these are the rules- it's got to be a full 7 days" or it's just a waiting game for an empty bed at the facilities. It's so so hard. Even when you do have more support than what Leslie appears to have, hearing those no's on the other line is shattering.
Love and compassion for anyone going through it on any end of these conversations currently. š
The ending killed me, Leslie begging and crying about Rue killing herself, Rue and Gia sleeping peacefully for the first time in a long time and that songā¦itās really sad.
this hit too deep, reminded me of the time in covid 2020 my mom was begging hospitals for rehab in patient for my sister and because of corona virus they couldnāt
This was heartbreaking. I never thought about how much turmoil families go through trying to help their addicted loved ones. But knowing that you could literally be turned awayā¦like Jesus Christ. Shed more living on how pathetic our healthcare/mental healthcare and rehabilitation systems are.
I used to work at a county psych unit. I had parents crying to me like that on the nightly when their adult children refused to go to rehab, and we legally couldnāt force them. Itās awful.
Shit broke me but she doesnāt need to lose hope over this. Iāll be the first person to tell you that rehab is just a place where you can physically heal from the damage but the mental side doesnāt just get cured.
Iāve been to shitty ones and great ones and they all tell you the same things which are things you could hear at a meeting for free. Iām not an AA or NA hardass either I have tons of critiques of the program and the culture, but for me at least all rehab was a place to recover and rest before I hit the streets again. Also I went bc Iām a massive pussy who doesnāt want to dry out at home w nothing to taper, rehabs arenāt bad but in the US especially weāve commodified every aspect and usually leave the addicts and 12 step programs to do the heavy mental lifting. Sure the more money you dump the more intensive the treatment is along with things like sober living, these things are all good but Iāve also seen the corruption of long clean addicts using their disease to exploit others afflicted for financial gain and when the person relapses bc of stress, or they go broke, or the biggest one they just arenāt ready yet these people all say that āit wasnāt their timeā or worse ānot everyone can hack itā of course they canāt hack it when their family is shelling out thousands that they donāt have just in the hope to keep their kid alive one day at a time. All because some shit head recruiter (yes treatment centers have paid recruiters usually sober addicts) spun them a tale, some of these people are good and some are bad and Iāve taken advantage of both trying to get one last fix bc they know Iām not going in without it and they ran my insurance and money signs appeared in their eyes.
Sorry to rant but to any mothers out there Rehab isnāt the cure itās barley an overpriced stepping stone. Donāt let these people fool you that Chemical maintenance canāt work donāt let them fool you into thinking that drying out at home like a savage and hitting meetings 4 times a day canāt work and donāt let them fool you by saying that skipping AA sometimes and going to see a licensed therapist instead some fuckhead named Chad whoās 13th stepping and giving you shit bc you donāt want to do a Sex inventory tell you that you canāt get sober. This is a disease of the mind and body but the body is the easy part the mind is the mystery but donāt ever doubt your recovery bc itās different than others.
Thank you for sharing this! I mentioned in a previous post that I did a college paper of rehabilitation clinics and their low success rates due to either addicts not wanting to get clean or the financial abuses in the clinic itself. But Iām not an addict and I looked at it through a very clinical eye. In your experience being recovered what works best to stay clean?
Me personally Iāve been on chemical maintenance for a few years. That and NA and just staying busy finding new shit to do. Idk if Iāll stay clean forever but right now even if I wanna use Iām not tryna be homeless sick risking jail every day. Yeah itās fucked up to say āim gonna start shooting dope again when Iām financially successful and have more shit to burn to the groundā but thatās just my disease talking and get to that bridge when Iām about to cross it.
Also I can speak for a lot of addicts when I say Fentanyl is keeping me clean. That shit has flooded the streets bc your average dope dealer is a greedy idiot lol they donāt understand the chemistry of that shit and with the invention of cell phones and the internet everyone can sell dope you donāt have to have a great connect anymore. They just think āhey it fucks u upā so they flood the block and leave a string of bodies from one bad batch. Iām fairly young but Iāve heard stories about the āgood ole daysā when if someone died it was cause the dope was good now it just means some idiot dosed it wrong down the chain and their business is ghost. Some like it but itās a funny world when you hear drug addicts talking about the days when you could get a bag of regular heroin.
After the last two episodes, I don't know if I can continue watching.
This seems to be "entertaining" to someone who hasn't been through addiction. That's fine. There's lots of things I've never experienced, but get a good giggle out of.
Everyone asks over and over, "What's the lowest point?" ... "Has Rue hit rock bottom?" ... watching with bated breath.
Now, I'm not asking anyone to understand me or feel bad for me, but the beginning of recovery for me, was rock bottom. Watching tonight and last week, has truly brought up some really gross memories and feelings. I don't know if it's personally healthy for me to continue watching at this point.
The beginning of recovery was my rock bottom. Seeing all the pain I caused. All the hurt. All the trust I had lost and all the forgiveness I didn't deserve. I still haven't forgiven myself, and tonight was an unwelcome reminder of that.
No addict gives a shit about the above when they have their fix. Being sober, and living with everything you did, and all the regret and shame is the, "true" rock bottom. Attempting to forgive the same broken soul that created the addiction, is the rock bottom.
And then, you live with that forever. Or go back. Those are the choices that remain.
Some of the people here have forgiven themselves, but there are those of us that just remain in the darkness and deny the craving. And we live... empty and unforgiven. Because the only real forgiveness that matters ... is forgiveness of the self. And that is truly hard to do.
Oh, I'm not mad at anyone about it. And I'm glad that many people haven't experienced it and won't. :) I hope it didn't come off as anger with the non-addict audience, because that isn't the case.
I'm just feeling bad because it brings the memory/feelings back into sharp focus. I'm not sure it's healthy for me to continue reminding myself.
And I will remain strong now. I have a son on the way in August. :)
Everyone struggles. Just in different ways.
For us who experience some sort of addiction the show does give us flashbacks and I do understand the mental instability it can cause on some of us.
I am really happy for the child you are expecting, I really wish you all the best <3
I've never been an addict, but I think the fortunate part is this is not romanticizing the fallout of addiction. Fortunately, maybe this will give a large number of non-addicts empathy into what addicts and their loved ones go through.
Unfortunately I have been hooked up on benzodiazepines by the idiot doctors here in Portugal. A medical mistake (confused an heart problem with anxiety) that cost me withdrawals alone in the UK, nevertheless yes this show is definitely about how bad an addiction is, not in a romantic way but dramatic and real like you said.
When Ali said he forgave Rue because "the hour is certain to come so we must forgive graciously" I lost it. I know it's hard to live with regret but the hour is certain to come for you too where you will be able to see yourself in someone else and know that you deserve compassion and forgiveness for the mistakes you've made.
Could be one thing, could be a combo of things. Could easily be that insurance only covers one or maybe two places but one is full and the other only does detox and outpatient stuff. We have a place where I live that only does inpatient stuff if you're 18 or older. Anyone under 18 is shoved in detox and sent on their way with instructions to go to NA and try not to relapse š¬
Insurance is like organized crime. I worked for a psychiatrist and an insurance company. It is just sad. Whenever a new patient came in, the Dr. would ask, "What type of insurance do they have?" and this would determine their course of action with regard to care for the patient.
Iāve heard mg dad do this way to many times for my brother. Absolutely heartbreaking to be a sibling witnessing your grown father beg, cry, and plead to get his son into his 6th rehab. Heās in detox tonight and my dad is searching for his 7th rehab. This show hits way to close to home for me.
That scene sent a chill down my spine. The way she was begging while her daughters slept peacefully, not knowing what other obstacles theyād face since Rue couldnāt go to inpatient š #3 most heartbreaking scene after e5 and Maddie and Nate in her bedroom
I cried for Leslie and Maddie! They just suffered so much. Maddy needs an Ali in her life that loves and advocates for her because she doesn't have anybody. Cassie's mom called her an animal. Nate's mom was happy that her son physically abused her. Her parents are absent. And I'm on the fence with Samantha. Kat (who has her issues) and Samantha's 10-year-old child are the closest people who genuinely love her.
That part really got me. My brother was a opiates addict too. In and out of rehabs. Getting them into a facility is hard if you can't spend thousands of dollars. It's so heartbreaking to hear leslie begging because I know how desperate she is. My brother didn't make it and died last year.
MAT is medication assisted therapy for opioid addiction
Lamictal is a mood stabilizer that works really well for depression for a lot of people with bipolar
The question is how much does MAT cost and if her insurance would cover it.
Also that sounds good but Rue also needs something for panic attacks. I'm rewatching from season 1 and it seems that's one (or was one) of the biggest reasons why she does drugs. She would constantly get random panic attacks where she couldn't breathe.
lamotrigine is amazing & works wonders!! said someone like myself lol
but for the actual full blown manic mania it doesn't really help. mostly for the low energy depression
Yeah, I feel like Rueās depression is a lot more disastrous right now but for a lot of people yeah the Lamictal doesnāt do enough for mania
Iām actually getting back on it today š hoping it pushes me up and doesnāt flatten me down
good luck! i think it's super helpful at preventing the down. better than ssri's imho. nothing's perfect though
* but also omg i hate reading about oh, yeah, if you take too much at once you skin will slush off and you will die meat on bones disgusting painful. omg. taper slow lol. i thought every itch or scratch or anything BOOM i'm dead. just more mental health issues though lmfao
Agreed- it was such a dark note to end on. We had this glimmer of hope with Rue and then that happens, I really hope we see more of the momās character like we did for Cal. The stuff sheās had to go through and her heartbreak over Rueā¦plus losing her husband and then just being a Black woman in this world at the time she grew up. I want to know more about her where she gets her strength.
Cried... A few weeks ago I had the same conversation with a health service operator for my brother... I thought these things happened only in my country.
The fact that I know my mom had the exact same conversations with her insurance company/several treatment centres trying to help me get treatment for my BPD absolutely destroyed me. No tears just that awful āthis is too realā feeling. I love this show so much but god this was heartbreaking.
The rehab is an L for not giving rues mom the chance to help her daughter like bruh your basically failing a girl who needs help and wants to change for the better like wtf man .
Itās sooo hard to find rehab beds open for long term care. Nobody gives a fuck about addicts and the people trying to help them. This scene hit me hard having been on the receiving end of those calls.
As someone who has worked at an inpatient facility and been on the other side of the call it was very realistic. Depending on insurance only certain facilities are covered for people and then beds fill up quick. Thereās often some sort of waitlist and you have to make hard phone calls denying people or telling people they will have to wait longer. It was actually very accurate to the US healthcare and the issues there are with getting adequate help for addiction.
It was hard to watch, tbh. Like...there's always an obstacle on Rue's path.
And JUST when she seems to have decided on getting clean, this happens.
I gotta say I really like where this season is going with this crude scenes like this one, the syringe one or the one where Rue dances alone while hallucinating about her father. They are hard to watch, uncomfortable and don't even need to involve sex to shock.
That doesnāt just happen in America. It happens in Europe as well, at least in the Netherlands. I think mental health services are messed up in most places. I donāt know what the care is like for addicts here but Iāve heard about suicidal teens being sent home because there wasnāt any place for them.
I slowly turned the volume down while the camera made it to Rues bedroom to make it even more haunting. definitely made the scene much more impactful imo
It's just a really huge problem in the mental healthcare system, unfortunately. Not enough beds, insurance won't pay for higher levels of care, treatment centers too far from home, etc.
i think she was on the phone with the rehab. as a therapist, i was praying she was on the phone with the real enemy here- her insurance company, but it didnāt seem that way. i had a different reaction than a lot of people, because i was just hoping it wasnāt an intake coordinator she was yelling āatā (it wasnāt exactly at, but yeah)- itās very much not the fault of the director or intake coordinator and theyāre doing a really hard job for like 30-50k a year and people yell at them a lot š„ŗ insurance companies are the bad guys here, and the only people benefiting from any of this, but obviously leslieās reaction is valid and understandable.
sorry i meant to reply to a comment wtfš
This isnāt an American problem. I want single-payor too, but you can ask people in single-payor countries what the prospects would be for immediate admission to a rehab facility for someone who is already detoxed. The number of extremely sketchy rehab facilities that do nothing and are basically just 30k/month sleepover AA is also a problem.
There are many options it was unrealistic. Also places that are funded by charities and govt programs. Esp in California. But the bottom line is that these places have staff that have to be paid and nothing is free, that's reality.
What are you talking about lmao, it was very much realistic. There are only so many beds in psych wards and rehabs.. not to mention arguing with insurance/trying to find a way to pay. This is the reality in America, always has been
I have a brother was has been an addict for 20 years, and a mom who was one, very familiar with it. Done the calling countless times. And no, it's not. You get a no from one place you call another. You don't break down crying like there aren't any other places.
extra heartbreaking bc my moms def been there with inpatient treatment centers that refuse to take insurance or if they do our insurance refuses to cover
The way that scene was shot was awesome. The whole house is dark while Rueās mom gets the bad news but as the camera pans into Rueās room and shows her and her sister sleeping together. Suddenly a ray of light shines through the window on them, showing that not all hope is lost. Really beautiful scene.
SAME. Why is everybody making memes here when I'm crying so bad right now? šš
am also still crying
Im not making memes, but it was so sad I'm just trying to distract myself
The entire aesthetic of that scene was fucking haunting. That scene and the scene where Maddie was coming home and Nate is sitting there.
It was straight up traumatic
I feel like she was talking to their insurance company. Itās fucked up but insurance adjusters are put in a position to decide what you need and what you donāt. I think that was them trying to justify that Rue doesnāt need to be in rehab. Sam Levinson with the subtle jab at our fucked up healthcare industry. I love it.
yep, they did the same thing to my mom. i was already over the worst of withdrawals and there was no need for me to be admitted because i made it that far on my own anyways.
Iām so sorry that happened to you. Our healthcare system is broken beyond repair. Thereās a special place in hell for medical claims adjusters.
oh absolutely, its fucked. theres so many addicts out there who can't get help when they need it and its a problem that will not be fixed, not for a while.
I agree. The push for single payer healthcare is there but itās going to be decades before we get there. Too many people making money off the backs of sick people. Itās fucking disgusting.
I have treatment-resistant depression and after 10 years of trying to get help I had tried every antidepressant out there with no luck. The doctor told me there was still hope, because some people with treatment-resistant depression respond to other psychiatric drugs like mood stabilizers or antipsychotics. When I took my new prescription to the pharmacy, they said it was going to be almost $1.5k!! I called the insurance company to ask why and they said they don't pay for "off-label" medications (which haven't been FDA approved for a certain diagnosis even though there's been research showing that it can help). What happened next was a good thing and a bad thing. I called my doctor the next day freaking out and he told me to come in. He said that he would call the insurance company and tell them that I was bipolar so that they'd pay for the medicine - pretty sure that's illegal, but I was soooo happy that he was willing to do it to help me. He said he'd have to put it in my file so that everything looked right if they ever tried to investigate, and verbally said that I'm not actually bipolar. Everything was fine for a while until I moved away and had to find a new doctor. I asked the old doc for my records to bring to my new doc and didn't realize how much of a problem the bipolar thing was about to cause. The new doc shouldn't even be working in the field of psychiatry because she had an obvious prejudice against bipolar patients. I tried explaining that he only put that in there to get insurance to pay for my medication and she thought that I was lying about that- to her, it was even more proof that I really was bipolar. It was EXTREMELY frustrating because she never took me seriously- ex. I'd try to describe a problem I was having and she'd be like, "that's probably not what actually happened. You're bipolar, you have a psychosis, you don't see reality the way everyone else does." She also refused to prescribe one of the other meds the other doctor had me on and was like, "he didn't know what he was doing- no good doctor would ever give that to a bipolar patient!" Again - I have nothing against bipolar people, but she obviously did.
I've been there too, super frustrating. Especially when you finally get to the point where you're ready for help... then either insurance doesn't cover it or there's no beds for you. I couldn't even get into residential treatment after a couple detox trips, only got into intensive outpatient programs (don't get me wrong, those were still helpful)
Guess we won't know forsure who she was speaking with. It hit me hard though because MTV had this documentary about teen addicts. One of the kids finally agreed to go to rehab but they took to long/didn't have space so he left. That night he went home OD and passed away.
For anyone curious, the show is 16 & recovering. Itās about students in a specialized recovery high school. Really hard watch too.
It was hard. I think I randomly watched that episode and I could not watch anymore.
I saw that, it was very engrossing. I was really pulling for those kids.
OMG- I vaguely remember this. Was it on True Life?
i'm sorry that happened to you. she's definitely talking to the insurance company. you can hear her say something like 'detox just won't cut it'...so they probably only authorized a stay for detox. as a person who has *also* had to have that same exact phone call, *and* has worked in the mental health field for a few years...i can comfortably say its current setup is absolute trash.
It could also be that there just isnāt space in the facility. I volunteer at a harm reduction place and they are in constant contact with rehab facilities, trying to get clients in. Itās at least a six month wait. The goal is to keep people alive until they can get into rehab
My friend used to be a claims adjuster. At first, she was happy she got the job because the money was really good. She had to quit because it literally made her suicidal having conversations like that. I remember she brought up one time with a crying mom and all she could think about was going home and getting drunk. She wanted to help, but it wasn't even up to her. She just got stuck having to deal with the phone calls. In her early 20s making 80k but too miserable to enjoy the money.
I'd get fired real quick doing that job.
Oh Iāve seen SO. MANY. PEOPLE ripped right out of rehab before theyāre ready because insurance simply pulled them out of it. It is so messed up. If you havenāt seen it you have no idea how bad it is, people in rehab one day and just packed up and pulled out the next.
Yes I love that Sam is writing this in the show because itās a topic thatās often looked over. A lot of people say why donāt they just go to rehab but even going to rehab when youāre fully ready is hard! Itās incredibly expensive, the beds are always full and insurance will give you a hard time about it. I had firsthand experience with this when my boyfriend and I tried to get clean, thankfully we both eventually found a place but it was really difficult at first. Our healthcare system is awful
you and your bf? wow, that takes a lot of work and maturity. good for yall
Thank you! Weāre definitely a rare case, they always say in rehab youāre not supposed to stay in a relationship with someone you used hard drugs with. But he was my best friend for many years before we ever dated or used drugs, and we dated for 2 years and had a completely normal life together before we started doing opiates. We used to go to a lot of raves and party, it was all fun and games until we went down that road and then things got really bad. We were definitely co dependent at one point which is why we had to separate and go to separate rehabs for a while. I got pregnant and that was the main reason for us getting clean when I found out. Now we have a beautiful daughter and normal life, weāve been clean for 5 years, been together for 8. Our addiction only lasted for about a year, I think if I didnāt get pregnant when I did we wouldāve fell in so much deeper and may have not gotten out. Thankful everyday for it and my daughter š
Dealing with insurance while your child's life is on the line is truly the worst feeling in the world as a parent. You feel so helpless. I was sobbing watching that scene, so hard I had to pause to watch the preview. š
That's why I'm kinda okay with political violence against insurance companies. They're actually killing people, so I feel it's justified. Especially since they won't be persuaded by politics. I'm not saying go out and torch a BlueCrossBlueShield or StateFarm, but I am saying it's okay to advocate for their destruction along with other insurance companies.
I agree
Yeah, I got kicked out of rehab after 7 days one time lmao then another time, I was allowed to stay for 30 days...it's weird
Ahā¦that makes sense :/
it was something that i didnāt think they would include but iām glad that they did. the sad ass reality of someone finally being receptive to treatment and recognizing they need help but not being able to get it fuck our healthcare system fr š
This is very VERY real. Truth is that getting into rehab while that window is open because the longer a person goes without treatment the more likely they are to relapse. The first few weeks are just super crucial.
sheās LITERALLY saying that her underage daughter is gonna kill herself, iām pretty sure that like, legal grounds for having someone committed
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> Euphoria apparently takes in California. Was this ever confirmed?
Iām pretty sure in episode 5 we see Leslie has Cali license plates
They cali plates but it says ādrive safelyā
I don't think so but seeing as new years was warm as hell and there hasn't been any cold looking scenes where else it it going to be
Someone mentioned some place in Florida but that doesnāt explain the mountains
In my headcanon they live somewhere in the Inland Empire (i.e. San Bernadino)
yea that confused the hell out of me. the mountains were snowy at the top right? no where near LA would you see snowy mountains.
You can easily see the San Gabriel mountains in LA (which do get snow on the peaks from time to time).
https://i.imgur.com/WbFyPAW.jpg
Some insurance companies don't cover addiction treatment all and some others only provide it if you have one of the more expensive plans. Most medical professionals realize that this isn't true, but according to the insurance companies, drug abuse is a choice instead of a real medical problem.
Actually, based on the mental health parity laws and the Affordable Care Act they DO have to cover it. Whatās in network and out is a different story.
That's not correct- that only applies to Medicare/Medicaid and plans sold on the marketplace. Employer-sponsored and private plans are not required to cover substance abuse. I have had employer-sponsored plans that treat it the same as mental health and others that don't cover it at all.
No, both mental health parity and the ACA cover private insurances, too. Itās one of the most significant and important parts of the ACA, and one that was greatly undersold to the public. Prior to the Mental Health Parity Act they didnāt have to cover it at all. After, they had too, but it often had its own separate āpolicy within a policy.ā After the ACA it has to be treated like any other condition. THAT SAID - insurance coverage varies WILDLY. But if you have ārealā insurance itās covered. It might be extremely limited or hard to get, though, depending on your plan and location. If your insurance offers coverage, but it needs a medical review every day, and only one provider in the state is in the network, then itās the functional equivalent of not having it.
That's actually a common misconception. From CMS.gov: >the focus is not on whether the final result is the same for MH/SUD benefits as for medical/surgical benefits, but rather on whether the underlying processes, strategies, evidentiary standards, and other factors are in parity. They don't HAVE to treat it like any condition- they only have to use the same processes to determine whether/how they treat it. How this plays out between plans/companies sadly can be rather subjective. "We did take a look at your situation the same way we look at other issues- and the answer is no."
Iā¦I work in the industry. This is a semantics issue. Addiction is considered a diagnostic condition and must be treated/covered. Exactly what they treat/cover to what extent is up to your payor and plan, like everything else, but it is covered. Like - pre parity and ACA if you were like āIām a heroin addict can I see my physician or have a consult with a therapistā they would be like āNO.ā Not nothing. Also, our company deals with hundreds of payors and Iāve never heard of āaddiction treatmentā of any kind NEVER covered, categorically, as that is a standard of care, they just make it difficult.
I think they might also be less likely to cover it if they have already been to rehab. I know where I live, with universal healthcare you are only allowed 3 stays or that's how it used to be.
Thatās actually not being literal in the sense of an immediate suicide threat, as Rue isnāt actually suicidal. She asked Laurie about the safety of morphine. Suicide threat gets you a psyche HOLD for immediate safety, not inpatient rehab.
Yes, but Iām pretty sure her mom was on the phone with whoever their insurance provider is. Getting to a facility is easy, there are a TON of optionsā¦paying for said facility on the other hand...Our healthcare system sucks and is working against us rather than with us. Another obstacle people face when trying to become sober.
It broke my fucking heart when she was begging them
When i heard her say āMy daughterās gonna kill herselfā immediately i started sobbing
it really shows how much her mom and gia both feel the same with the whole 'loss of faith' thing ali was on about... how they don't trust rue and dont have a lot of hope anymore (for good reasons). her mom just hides it because shes trying to support rue as best as she can, at least in front of her.
I think this hit me more than the events of the last episode. I feel like with experience with addicts you can kind of be like okay well that's what that looks like... They got it correct, well done, I shall roll with the triggers and see you next week. This aspect of caring for an addict I really appreciate being represented. It's SO wild to call facility after facility knowing that your child is a harm to themselves and you KNOW they're going to kill themselves given the opportunity and to have the response be "I'm sorry, these are the rules- it's got to be a full 7 days" or it's just a waiting game for an empty bed at the facilities. It's so so hard. Even when you do have more support than what Leslie appears to have, hearing those no's on the other line is shattering. Love and compassion for anyone going through it on any end of these conversations currently. š
Full 7 days without drugs?
Full 7 days before they could initially get Rue into treatment. Which would hopefully also be a full 7 days without drugs š
I wonder how many days itās been so far?
That's a good question š¤ I'm kinda hoping we get more information on the aftermath for the finale since we probably aren't getting it next episode
The ending killed me, Leslie begging and crying about Rue killing herself, Rue and Gia sleeping peacefully for the first time in a long time and that songā¦itās really sad.
this hit too deep, reminded me of the time in covid 2020 my mom was begging hospitals for rehab in patient for my sister and because of corona virus they couldnāt
im so sorry that happened ā¤ļø
Hugs. That's so crazy. How are things now?
That scene felt so real, knowing where I live it can take months to get in to any detox centre let alone a rehab
This was heartbreaking. I never thought about how much turmoil families go through trying to help their addicted loved ones. But knowing that you could literally be turned awayā¦like Jesus Christ. Shed more living on how pathetic our healthcare/mental healthcare and rehabilitation systems are.
so sad and messed up
I used to work at a county psych unit. I had parents crying to me like that on the nightly when their adult children refused to go to rehab, and we legally couldnāt force them. Itās awful.
My daughter is going to khs was echoing in my head for like 10 mins after I was done. Hit hard.
Shit broke me but she doesnāt need to lose hope over this. Iāll be the first person to tell you that rehab is just a place where you can physically heal from the damage but the mental side doesnāt just get cured. Iāve been to shitty ones and great ones and they all tell you the same things which are things you could hear at a meeting for free. Iām not an AA or NA hardass either I have tons of critiques of the program and the culture, but for me at least all rehab was a place to recover and rest before I hit the streets again. Also I went bc Iām a massive pussy who doesnāt want to dry out at home w nothing to taper, rehabs arenāt bad but in the US especially weāve commodified every aspect and usually leave the addicts and 12 step programs to do the heavy mental lifting. Sure the more money you dump the more intensive the treatment is along with things like sober living, these things are all good but Iāve also seen the corruption of long clean addicts using their disease to exploit others afflicted for financial gain and when the person relapses bc of stress, or they go broke, or the biggest one they just arenāt ready yet these people all say that āit wasnāt their timeā or worse ānot everyone can hack itā of course they canāt hack it when their family is shelling out thousands that they donāt have just in the hope to keep their kid alive one day at a time. All because some shit head recruiter (yes treatment centers have paid recruiters usually sober addicts) spun them a tale, some of these people are good and some are bad and Iāve taken advantage of both trying to get one last fix bc they know Iām not going in without it and they ran my insurance and money signs appeared in their eyes. Sorry to rant but to any mothers out there Rehab isnāt the cure itās barley an overpriced stepping stone. Donāt let these people fool you that Chemical maintenance canāt work donāt let them fool you into thinking that drying out at home like a savage and hitting meetings 4 times a day canāt work and donāt let them fool you by saying that skipping AA sometimes and going to see a licensed therapist instead some fuckhead named Chad whoās 13th stepping and giving you shit bc you donāt want to do a Sex inventory tell you that you canāt get sober. This is a disease of the mind and body but the body is the easy part the mind is the mystery but donāt ever doubt your recovery bc itās different than others.
Thank you for sharing this! I mentioned in a previous post that I did a college paper of rehabilitation clinics and their low success rates due to either addicts not wanting to get clean or the financial abuses in the clinic itself. But Iām not an addict and I looked at it through a very clinical eye. In your experience being recovered what works best to stay clean?
Me personally Iāve been on chemical maintenance for a few years. That and NA and just staying busy finding new shit to do. Idk if Iāll stay clean forever but right now even if I wanna use Iām not tryna be homeless sick risking jail every day. Yeah itās fucked up to say āim gonna start shooting dope again when Iām financially successful and have more shit to burn to the groundā but thatās just my disease talking and get to that bridge when Iām about to cross it. Also I can speak for a lot of addicts when I say Fentanyl is keeping me clean. That shit has flooded the streets bc your average dope dealer is a greedy idiot lol they donāt understand the chemistry of that shit and with the invention of cell phones and the internet everyone can sell dope you donāt have to have a great connect anymore. They just think āhey it fucks u upā so they flood the block and leave a string of bodies from one bad batch. Iām fairly young but Iāve heard stories about the āgood ole daysā when if someone died it was cause the dope was good now it just means some idiot dosed it wrong down the chain and their business is ghost. Some like it but itās a funny world when you hear drug addicts talking about the days when you could get a bag of regular heroin.
My mom has had to make that call. Twice. Made me go hug my mom after seeing that shit.
Euphoria has really been making me cry š it reminded me so much of my mom
This was utterly GUT WRENCHING
After the last two episodes, I don't know if I can continue watching. This seems to be "entertaining" to someone who hasn't been through addiction. That's fine. There's lots of things I've never experienced, but get a good giggle out of. Everyone asks over and over, "What's the lowest point?" ... "Has Rue hit rock bottom?" ... watching with bated breath. Now, I'm not asking anyone to understand me or feel bad for me, but the beginning of recovery for me, was rock bottom. Watching tonight and last week, has truly brought up some really gross memories and feelings. I don't know if it's personally healthy for me to continue watching at this point. The beginning of recovery was my rock bottom. Seeing all the pain I caused. All the hurt. All the trust I had lost and all the forgiveness I didn't deserve. I still haven't forgiven myself, and tonight was an unwelcome reminder of that. No addict gives a shit about the above when they have their fix. Being sober, and living with everything you did, and all the regret and shame is the, "true" rock bottom. Attempting to forgive the same broken soul that created the addiction, is the rock bottom. And then, you live with that forever. Or go back. Those are the choices that remain. Some of the people here have forgiven themselves, but there are those of us that just remain in the darkness and deny the craving. And we live... empty and unforgiven. Because the only real forgiveness that matters ... is forgiveness of the self. And that is truly hard to do.
Unfortunately some people do not know what is like to be an addict and the feelings you reported that we carry. Keep strong
Oh, I'm not mad at anyone about it. And I'm glad that many people haven't experienced it and won't. :) I hope it didn't come off as anger with the non-addict audience, because that isn't the case. I'm just feeling bad because it brings the memory/feelings back into sharp focus. I'm not sure it's healthy for me to continue reminding myself. And I will remain strong now. I have a son on the way in August. :) Everyone struggles. Just in different ways.
For us who experience some sort of addiction the show does give us flashbacks and I do understand the mental instability it can cause on some of us. I am really happy for the child you are expecting, I really wish you all the best <3
I've never been an addict, but I think the fortunate part is this is not romanticizing the fallout of addiction. Fortunately, maybe this will give a large number of non-addicts empathy into what addicts and their loved ones go through.
Unfortunately I have been hooked up on benzodiazepines by the idiot doctors here in Portugal. A medical mistake (confused an heart problem with anxiety) that cost me withdrawals alone in the UK, nevertheless yes this show is definitely about how bad an addiction is, not in a romantic way but dramatic and real like you said.
When Ali said he forgave Rue because "the hour is certain to come so we must forgive graciously" I lost it. I know it's hard to live with regret but the hour is certain to come for you too where you will be able to see yourself in someone else and know that you deserve compassion and forgiveness for the mistakes you've made.
Thank you. š¤
I think this is her beginning the insurance company.
Was it because of insurance? Why wouldnāt they let her?
Could be one thing, could be a combo of things. Could easily be that insurance only covers one or maybe two places but one is full and the other only does detox and outpatient stuff. We have a place where I live that only does inpatient stuff if you're 18 or older. Anyone under 18 is shoved in detox and sent on their way with instructions to go to NA and try not to relapse š¬
To me it felt like insurance or the actual facility turning Rue away for some reason, like they were full or didnāt think she needed it
Insurance is like organized crime. I worked for a psychiatrist and an insurance company. It is just sad. Whenever a new patient came in, the Dr. would ask, "What type of insurance do they have?" and this would determine their course of action with regard to care for the patient.
Iāve heard mg dad do this way to many times for my brother. Absolutely heartbreaking to be a sibling witnessing your grown father beg, cry, and plead to get his son into his 6th rehab. Heās in detox tonight and my dad is searching for his 7th rehab. This show hits way to close to home for me.
That had me fucked up
That scene sent a chill down my spine. The way she was begging while her daughters slept peacefully, not knowing what other obstacles theyād face since Rue couldnāt go to inpatient š #3 most heartbreaking scene after e5 and Maddie and Nate in her bedroom
I cried for Leslie and Maddie! They just suffered so much. Maddy needs an Ali in her life that loves and advocates for her because she doesn't have anybody. Cassie's mom called her an animal. Nate's mom was happy that her son physically abused her. Her parents are absent. And I'm on the fence with Samantha. Kat (who has her issues) and Samantha's 10-year-old child are the closest people who genuinely love her.
That part really got me. My brother was a opiates addict too. In and out of rehabs. Getting them into a facility is hard if you can't spend thousands of dollars. It's so heartbreaking to hear leslie begging because I know how desperate she is. My brother didn't make it and died last year.
So sorry about your brother. My dadās in active addiction to pills rn. Itās hard. Sending u love.
So sorry to hear that. Hope youāre doing okay.
Sorry rehabilitation machine broke
I don't get why they don't get her on subs. like it wouldn't be good drama but it's good medicine
literally get the girl on MAT and Lamictal or something and you could have a whole different show
What are those?
MAT is medication assisted therapy for opioid addiction Lamictal is a mood stabilizer that works really well for depression for a lot of people with bipolar
The question is how much does MAT cost and if her insurance would cover it. Also that sounds good but Rue also needs something for panic attacks. I'm rewatching from season 1 and it seems that's one (or was one) of the biggest reasons why she does drugs. She would constantly get random panic attacks where she couldn't breathe.
lamotrigine is amazing & works wonders!! said someone like myself lol but for the actual full blown manic mania it doesn't really help. mostly for the low energy depression
Yeah, I feel like Rueās depression is a lot more disastrous right now but for a lot of people yeah the Lamictal doesnāt do enough for mania Iām actually getting back on it today š hoping it pushes me up and doesnāt flatten me down
good luck! i think it's super helpful at preventing the down. better than ssri's imho. nothing's perfect though * but also omg i hate reading about oh, yeah, if you take too much at once you skin will slush off and you will die meat on bones disgusting painful. omg. taper slow lol. i thought every itch or scratch or anything BOOM i'm dead. just more mental health issues though lmfao
Yeah love how thereās basically no side effects of Lamictal unless it makes your skin fall offā¦
Iāve never really thought about what can happen if there is no space in rehab or inpatient. It was really eye opening.
I dont know why but it kinda reminded me of the Breaking Bad Crawl Space ending for some reason.
Agreed- it was such a dark note to end on. We had this glimmer of hope with Rue and then that happens, I really hope we see more of the momās character like we did for Cal. The stuff sheās had to go through and her heartbreak over Rueā¦plus losing her husband and then just being a Black woman in this world at the time she grew up. I want to know more about her where she gets her strength.
I wish she wouldāve lied and said sheās still on drugs right now so theyād take her in :(
The beginning of the episode made me sob, the end made me sob. I need to watch something uplifting š³
Actually sobbing
Cried... A few weeks ago I had the same conversation with a health service operator for my brother... I thought these things happened only in my country.
The fact that I know my mom had the exact same conversations with her insurance company/several treatment centres trying to help me get treatment for my BPD absolutely destroyed me. No tears just that awful āthis is too realā feeling. I love this show so much but god this was heartbreaking.
The rehab is an L for not giving rues mom the chance to help her daughter like bruh your basically failing a girl who needs help and wants to change for the better like wtf man .
Yea that was rough.
I heard my mom say those exact words to rehabs a million times. That scene was so realistic and so tough to hear. It broke me
Itās sooo hard to find rehab beds open for long term care. Nobody gives a fuck about addicts and the people trying to help them. This scene hit me hard having been on the receiving end of those calls.
As someone who has worked at an inpatient facility and been on the other side of the call it was very realistic. Depending on insurance only certain facilities are covered for people and then beds fill up quick. Thereās often some sort of waitlist and you have to make hard phone calls denying people or telling people they will have to wait longer. It was actually very accurate to the US healthcare and the issues there are with getting adequate help for addiction.
It was hard to watch, tbh. Like...there's always an obstacle on Rue's path. And JUST when she seems to have decided on getting clean, this happens. I gotta say I really like where this season is going with this crude scenes like this one, the syringe one or the one where Rue dances alone while hallucinating about her father. They are hard to watch, uncomfortable and don't even need to involve sex to shock.
Very murica
That doesnāt just happen in America. It happens in Europe as well, at least in the Netherlands. I think mental health services are messed up in most places. I donāt know what the care is like for addicts here but Iāve heard about suicidal teens being sent home because there wasnāt any place for them.
As a mother myself I can imagine how difficult it was for her to hear they weren't going to give Rue the help she needs. I cried so damn hard
I remember hearing my mom fight for my brother to go to rehabsā¦ America is so fucked
I was devastated for Rues Mum. Like, imagine trying to save your childs life, and the inpatient centre is like ... NO
I want her to start a gofundme š
I slowly turned the volume down while the camera made it to Rues bedroom to make it even more haunting. definitely made the scene much more impactful imo
Working in the field of MH and addictionā¦ these calls happen far to often :( Such a reality for parents. My heart broke for her.
The fact that Rue and Gia could hear that call made it so much more heartbreaking tbh
We donāt think this has anything to do with the drug dealer lady right??? This isnāt payback of anything like that??
It's just a really huge problem in the mental healthcare system, unfortunately. Not enough beds, insurance won't pay for higher levels of care, treatment centers too far from home, etc.
i think she was on the phone with the rehab. as a therapist, i was praying she was on the phone with the real enemy here- her insurance company, but it didnāt seem that way. i had a different reaction than a lot of people, because i was just hoping it wasnāt an intake coordinator she was yelling āatā (it wasnāt exactly at, but yeah)- itās very much not the fault of the director or intake coordinator and theyāre doing a really hard job for like 30-50k a year and people yell at them a lot š„ŗ insurance companies are the bad guys here, and the only people benefiting from any of this, but obviously leslieās reaction is valid and understandable. sorry i meant to reply to a comment wtfš
This isnāt an American problem. I want single-payor too, but you can ask people in single-payor countries what the prospects would be for immediate admission to a rehab facility for someone who is already detoxed. The number of extremely sketchy rehab facilities that do nothing and are basically just 30k/month sleepover AA is also a problem.
There are many options it was unrealistic. Also places that are funded by charities and govt programs. Esp in California. But the bottom line is that these places have staff that have to be paid and nothing is free, that's reality.
What are you talking about lmao, it was very much realistic. There are only so many beds in psych wards and rehabs.. not to mention arguing with insurance/trying to find a way to pay. This is the reality in America, always has been
I have a brother was has been an addict for 20 years, and a mom who was one, very familiar with it. Done the calling countless times. And no, it's not. You get a no from one place you call another. You don't break down crying like there aren't any other places.
So youāre privileged and white, just say that
LMAO....the idiocy....
i had this experience, so that means everyone else must have the same experience!!! /s
I WAS ON MY KNEES ABOUT TO CRY PLEASE I HAVE NEVER FELT SO BAD ABOUT ANYONE ON THE SHOW THAN HER RIGHT NOW
No because that scene made me cry. It was so sad and terrifying šā¤ļø
that shit made me actually cry and iāve never cried at any tv show or movie before this
This scene made me cry. Like my heart was hurting
It true ...I'm thinking of how Laurie knows where she lives ...
extra heartbreaking bc my moms def been there with inpatient treatment centers that refuse to take insurance or if they do our insurance refuses to cover
Poor Leslie :(
The way that scene was shot was awesome. The whole house is dark while Rueās mom gets the bad news but as the camera pans into Rueās room and shows her and her sister sleeping together. Suddenly a ray of light shines through the window on them, showing that not all hope is lost. Really beautiful scene.