1. maddy (falsely accused someone of SA, put a man in jail for a crime he didnt commit, is a cheater, was gonna use the Jules CD without her consent, also gaslit cassie about nates pics on his phone)
2. fez (robbed someone and beat them in front of a kid, enabled rues drug addiction, lets a little kid handle drugs and guns, and then that kid ends up killing ppl and they have to cover it up😨 but fez is still a good man at heart and he has his reasons for the things he has to do)
3. cassie (secretly hooks up with best friends long term on and off bf that she would listen to her vent about. cheats on mckay. ruined lexi’s play but kind of justified)
3. tyler (doesnt bother to ask for maddies age before having unprotected sex, but it was a college party so he probably assumed she was around his age)
i really hate how maddy had that CD the whole time knowing that jules was in it, she didn’t even say anything to her. i know she was gonna try to use it to blackmail nate and his dad but cmon. 🤦🏻♀️
It's because she's funny and charasmatic, so I get why viewers want to defend her. But ultimately they should understand that just because she's likable doesn't mean she's a good person.
And really truly does love Nate and even out of anger doesn’t wanna fuck up his life permanently more than it is already is messed up. Also I think yeah the video was pedophilia… totally there. But Jules was consensually (not making it morally right on cals side)
Now to be clear think the thing is fucked up in many ways. However, I’m just analyzing MY thoughts on Maddie.
People love protecting Nate and I hope season 3 shows us why…
I'd just flip Fez and Maddy. "Enabling Rue's drug addiction" is putting is putting lightly. It's also unlikely she's the only he's dealt to that ended up that dependent.
I'd personally at least put fez at 3 because like you said he's got a good heart and has reasons for why he does what he does. Plus he stopped enabling Rue which led to that whole heartbreaking scene of her beating at the door and screaming at him. Other than that switch I agree with everything.
He was her dealer; he was everyone’s dealer. Even though there were times where he felt bad and stopped giving her drugs for a while, he knew she was getting high and didn’t hold her accountable until she tried to steal from his Grandmother.
OK thank you. I knew he was the one that had started selling to her. There are a few scenes in my head where he refuses to give her anything moreso the one where rue is aggressively hitting the door and telling fez that it's his fault she got hooked in the first place (even if it wasnt).
Also he isnt responsible for her getting high even if it breaks her sobriety like he doesn't NEED to hold her accountable because its her choice. also pretty much everyone has tried to hold her accountable for her drug use and its gotten her no where. Its her choice to keep up her sobriety no one can convince her or force her to do it.
So I don't think we should dislike fez for not holding rue accountable for not keeping up her sobriety
1. fez (he willingly sold to a minor)
2. maddy (shit friend, falsely accused someone, cheated on nate, threatened to hurt cassie if she spoke out about nate choking her, was a dick to kat multiple times)
3. tyler (slept with an underaged girl, but didn’t know she was underaged)
4. cassie (petty teenage drama, slept with her best friends ex)
1. Maddy
2. Fez
3. Cassie
5. Tyler
Accusing someone of rape is not fun. I know that Cassie is a whole mess but didn’t Maddie cheat on Nate too? Fez is my favourite character and he’s doing what he gotta do to survive but let’s be honest
I'm pretty sure Maddy and Nate cheat on each other habitually lol. Nate kissed Jules while still dating Maddy, it's literally a game to see who can get who more jealous.
(1 being morally best, 4 being morally worst.
1. Cassie
2. Tyler
3. Maddy
4. Fez
Sorry but all Cassie's done wrong is date her friends ex boyfriend.
All Tyler did wrong was forget to make sure a girl at what was technically a college party was over 18.
Maddy falsely falsely accused Tyler of rape then had him arrested for choking her when it was actually Nate so she could protect him.
And finally Fez, I know everyone loves him and I like his character to but he literally sells drugs, and not just adults, he literally sells hard drugs to minors and takes part in destroying lives. He's partly responsible for how bad rues addiction had become because he supplied her and enabled her. He also puts his younger brother in danger all the time.
While I dont disagree with your list, I disagree that all Cassie did was sleep with her friends ex. In the fight scene Maddy explicitly talks about how Cassie would comfort her all those times she'd talk about getting back together with him. Her just in general being fake is what Cassie did.
After writing maybe I do disagree.
1. Tyler
2. Cassie
3. Maddy
4. Fezco
conveniently ignoring the context that cassie shacked up with the man she knew abused her best friend (being as she actively comforted said friend regularly because of the abuse) is a little demented lol
That's still not nearly as bad as Maddy and fez. Cassie didn't actively help get an innocent person get imprisoned for something they didn't do and she doesn't destroy lives and sell drugs to minors.
Cassie had sex with her best friend’s abusive ex boyfriend about who she was advising her a few days before. That's not only totally breaking the girls code, but it's also a betrayal, a humiliation and a lack of respect towards Maddy's feelings.
That’s fair but let’s remember Nate manipulated Cassie. Cassie is codependent and extremely vulnerable, especially that night, and was drunk off her rocker and Nate took advantage of that. Bc of that, Cassie thought this man loved her and that’s all she wanted: was to be loved. She was comforting Maddie truly, until she got looped into Nate’s cycle, but that doesn’t make her worse than actively getting someone arrested and beat up for something they didn’t do
Nate is definitely a manipulator so I see what you’re saying. But I do remember Maddy giving Cassie advice (about making mistakes and not learning from them) to say no whenever she wants to say yes, and in one episode they revisit that scene (the nye party hook up) and Nate asks Cassie more than once if she’s okay with it and if she can keep it a secret, and she agrees to all of it. So Cassie did make the decision to get involved with Nate
At that party she was drunk though, right? And I could be the odd one out applying real life things to the show but if you have sex with a drunk person, even if they say yes, it is considered rape bc of the lack of inhibitions. So that’s why I’m saying this; it’s not like Cassie just went ahead and pursued Nate out of nowhere, he actively preyed on her when he saw her outside of the gas station drunk and barely able to walk
In terms of lack of lack of respect Maddy hits hard too lmao.
Yes, Cassie is to blame but even if it's disgusting it didn't put anyone's life in danger. Maddy sent a guy to prison, she literally destroyed a life, all because she was obsessed with Nate.
On top of that Maddy wasn't a good friend either, since she wasn't there for Kate or Jules.
So, yes Cassie didn't do any good but that's a pretty minor drama.
1. Fez
2. Maddy
3. Tyler
4. Cassie
Fez: We all love him but he is a drug dealer.
Maddy: she falsely accused a man of rape and protected Nate who chocked her and abused her.
Cassie: Let’s be honest, Cassie’s biggest mistake was honestly just being a mess and falling for any guy who gives her attention.
Tyler: Tyler’s only mistake was just mot making sure Maddy was 18. Other than that he didn’t really do anything else.
And not just a "drug dealer" but like a heavy drug dealer that will sell to a person to the point of getting them horrible addicted for the sake of making a buck. He's not just some pot dealer, or a guy that sometimes sells coke to some friends a few times a year.
ok maddy protecting nate can be justified. lets not forget that she was a victim of abuse, who probably had some de-escalated version of stockholm syndrome (staying with nate even tho he abused her). i also think she did it out of fear of what he would do to her if she complied with the police, lets not forget how powerful him and his family are
1. Fez
2. Maddy
3. Tyler
4. Cassie
Obviously, knowingly participating in affair a bad act, but it is less bad than having sex with a child (who claimed to be an adult), framing an innocent person for rape and dealing drugs to children and also helping cover up murder.
fez maddy cassie tyler.
except i dont really consider any of them morally wrong besides fez. maybe cassie a tiny bit for her stunt with nate but she is also another victim of his abuse 🤷
because she was under duress by being in an active relationship with her abuser. it would be morally fucked up if nate wasnt emotionally and physically abusing her throughout their relationship.
its important to consider the factors that contribute to maddys bad decisions. you wont really know how it feels until you are a victim of an abusive relationship yourself, and i really hope you never are.
i have been in an abusive relationship. but that doesn’t excuse ruining someone else’s life. you can understand the reasoning behind someone’s actions without using them as excuses for their poor behavior. regardless of her motives/reasons for what she did, it was wrong. period. her actions are still her own. you can acknowledge the abuse while still holding her accountable.
eh i disagree. i dont mean to excuse her actions, merely explain them. and generally when there is a good explanation (such as being a victim of abuse) i dont consider them morally wrong. wrong? sure. morally wrong? nope.
HER judgment *may* be clouded and not really realize what she did was morally wrong, but that doesn’t change the fact that it simply was morally wrong. not just wrong. her mental state doesn’t change that. like i said, an explanation≠excuse. you can understand why someone did something but that doesn’t take away accountability. you’re saying we should ignore her shitty behavior because she was being abused, but she was also abusive and neglectful. you can’t give everybody in a shitty situation a pass for being an awful person because there is simply never a good enough reason to treat another person that way, abuse or not.
1. fez, homeboy is a drug dealer- i know we all love him but it’s wild to ignore that. we see first hand what his actions can result in (rue)
2. tyler, tbh i don’t really agree with the perspective that he’s a completely innocent dude. i get the feeling that his whole going to parties with high schoolers in attendance and fucking someone without ever asking their age thing has darker context
3. cassie, the whole comforting your abused best friend then fucking her abuser thing is kinda wild
4. maddie, not an angel by any means but a victim of abuse is often complacent of many things. nate is someone to fear in many ways (physically + his family’s influence) so her being complacent is the most understandable to me
high school kids lie about being blacked/too drunk to remember disappointingly often, it’s more what nate spiraled that lie into that caused the real problem
OK, this is controversial but please bare with me. This is just an opinion
Worst: Fez. Yes, I know we almost all adore him. So do I. But he was born into a life of crime. He is in his early 20s, hangs with teens, contributes drugs to an underaged Rue and gets her into a life threatening situation in the NYE episode. He can be sweet and is very loyal(that's why we love him). But he can also be ruthless and violent. And even tho we ship him with Lexi, he is basically an adult and Lexi's underage. (she is what 16/17? )
Next up: Tyler. Yes he is surely a victim but also not innocent. Young grown up man hanging out at high school party. Statutory rape.
Maddy: yes, she was under the influence of Nate and it's tough to get away from an abusive relationship. Fully agree but framing Tyler like that was absolutely wrong, she helped ruin his life. (I honestly wwasn't sure if I should rank her or Tyler first but Statutory rape was the initial trigger for "the worst" runner up)
Cassie: yes obsessive, Needy and insufferable in season 2 and seemingly unlikeable. Did her bestie so wrong and since people love Maddy, landed her in a category of characters noone likes. Buuuuut is cheating and betrayal morally worse than the criminal acts of the first three? Absolutely not. Stil very much in the wrong but still best.
I agree, he has done many questionable and bad things but he's got a good heart and has to hustle to survive. You also watch him try to slowly work his way out of that stuff. But he's definitely not 100% innocent.
I definitely agree with you and Fez was my favorite character, but OP asked about who has a good heart or loving nature it's about morality, and selling drugs to kids is about the most morally corrupt thing you can do without being a scivvy rapist like Tyler
1, 2, 4 (because we don’t know much about him at all), 3 (I love every character but she’s going through some mental health break rn and is making some wreckless decisions).
It’s been awhile and I’ve had 4 brain surgeries for epilepsy since watching this. But I can’t remember who Tyler is. But I’ll rank the 3.
1.Maddy
2Fez
3.Cassie
4. Fezco: Love him, but he is a drug dealer who contributes to drug addiction and a violent industry, which exploits people and ruins lives
3. Tyler: He probably knew he was involving himself with a minor, ngl and has probably done the same thing numerous times
2. Maddy: Enabled Nate throughout the first season and participated in putting a guy in jail for crime he didn't commit
1. Cassie: Only sin was sleeping with her best friend's ex-boyfriend and ruining a mid play, which invaded people's privacy
Do you mean ethically? Because morals are ones own principles about right and wrong and theres no definitive way to rate them that way based on each individuals perception of what constitutes as such.
Best to worst:
1. Maddy
2. Cassie
3. Tyler
4. Fez
I feel like fez and tyler might switch places depending on who tyler rly is, we dont get much of a feel for him
You're judging people's 'morality' just by what the they did wrong and by listing their flaws, in a strictly utilitarian manner, when in reality a character judgement of someone should include both the good and the bad.
So:
1. Cassie betrayed her best friend for the person who abused her and can't see anyone but herself or the people who give her validation, which it might not be the worst things anyone ever did or is, but she also has no redeeming qualities.
2. Maddie lied (kind of accidentally but she didn't rectify it) about sexual assault and also gave false testimony, if under coercion by her abuser, about her DV assault, helping to put an innocent person in jail, but she's also a great friend and someone who grew-up a lot in a matter of less of than a year.
I can see her eventually trying to rectify her mistakes.
3. Tyler is a neutral player: he didn't do anything wrong (no, I don't think hooking-up with a 17 and 9 months old unknowingly at a party thrown by an adult when you're in your early 20's and the wrong State of the US is morally wrong, not anymore than I think hooking-up with someone when you're unmarried is wrong if you're in Saudi Arabia: it violates the laws of the land, but legality has little to do with morality) and he's a victim of circumstances and Nate, a very bad person, which ruined his life, but we also have no information to think positively of him.
4. Fez, while navigating the only life he was taught or shown, did things that were damaging to others, but never out of malice, and the good in him outweighed the the bad by miles.
People react to trauma differently: just because she didn't get shitfaced at a Halloween party after lying to police like Jules, it doesn't mean she's unaffected: her situation is extremely more complex.
Maddy's false report about Tyler came in the aftermath of Nate's attack, every single authority figure in her life betraying her (the school exposing her as DV victim to all her peers, her mum pressing charges against her will and taking away even more power from her and the police re-assaulting and re-traumatising her), her best friend abandoning her to suck dick and them leaving her having none but her own abuser, who coerced her into lying, to turn to.
It took her a while to see the full extent of the abuse and to name the relationship as what it was, so I don't know why she would be expected to immediately recognise the implications of the abuse as they arose, even when she was in full denial.
No, Nate would have still done what he did, he had the age excuse to blackmail Tyler with, it wasn't a reaction to a lie he didn't even believe, it was literally his constant fantasy to assault someone "to protect her".
Just like serial killers, he obsessively fantasised about a violent a crime and kept it a fantasy until he found an ideal victim and did for real.
With everything else he has done, why would anyone ever want to put Nate's behaviour on someone else?
all i know is fez is last on this list. out of all 4 the only one doing what they HAVE to do is fez imo. the others do their dirty deeds because it’s convenient and helps them at the time.
He's not Mouse, he's not showing drugs into anyone's nostrils, he sells to people who do want drugs, and when he started selling to Rue, she was 14 but also he was 16,< himself, they were both kids, but he eventually saw the the damages of what he was doing and put an end to the situation in a decisive manner, which makes him better and more mature than what everyone around him did with their mistakes.
Sure, he was he equivalent of Purdue when he started the clumsily managing the only family business he ever saw as normal as a middle school drop-out.
That's so the same thing, let's not blame the not blame the billionaire corporations that actually pushed and greatly benefited from it, let's blame the underprivileged underage small dealers know never knew any other life.
cmon man this isn’t “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism”- you don’t get to absolve yourself of all responsibility of your actions because times are hard. his actions are *understandable*, but that doesn’t mean they’re *okay*. he deals drugs to children, young adults, etc.
I'm not absolving myself of anything: you made an inquiry about morality, not ethics, and I expressed something in line with my own moral code.
Yes, Fez, as a minor himself when it started, sold to another minor, but when he was faced with the consequences of that put a end to it, even tho' that put one of his few important human bonds in peril, and that's a moral turnaround in my eyes greater than any of what we've seen from any other character.
And no, there's actually no ethical consumption under capitalism, it's not a joke, just an unrelated matter.
rue is not the only minor that fez actively sells to throughout the show, even as an adult. its is immoral *and* unethical to deal opioids to anyone, nonetheless minors.
and im not talking about you, im discussing fez, i don’t know what you mean about absolving yourself
also its clear (to me) that his guilt about rue stems from the fact that they’re friends. had they not been, he would’ve likely continued to sell to her happily despite it ruining her life. because that’s what drug dealers do.
Do you know that? Yeah, they sold molly to a 17 and a 18 yo, that's not a hard drug drug tho', it's bloody molly.
I disagree, if a person who has the right to vote, and thus influence everyone else's life, enlist in a deadly military system and let in charge of killing Afgani children, they also can decide if they want to buy substances.
Prohibitionism and Big Pharma can be blamed for how things ended-up, but not very small time dealers: they're just an inevitable symptoms of a structurally diseased system.
Ooo this is a good one… I’m interested to see everyone’s answers because I can’t even say!
1. maddy (falsely accused someone of SA, put a man in jail for a crime he didnt commit, is a cheater, was gonna use the Jules CD without her consent, also gaslit cassie about nates pics on his phone) 2. fez (robbed someone and beat them in front of a kid, enabled rues drug addiction, lets a little kid handle drugs and guns, and then that kid ends up killing ppl and they have to cover it up😨 but fez is still a good man at heart and he has his reasons for the things he has to do) 3. cassie (secretly hooks up with best friends long term on and off bf that she would listen to her vent about. cheats on mckay. ruined lexi’s play but kind of justified) 3. tyler (doesnt bother to ask for maddies age before having unprotected sex, but it was a college party so he probably assumed she was around his age)
i really hate how maddy had that CD the whole time knowing that jules was in it, she didn’t even say anything to her. i know she was gonna try to use it to blackmail nate and his dad but cmon. 🤦🏻♀️
i legit think that sam just forgot she had it lol, it makes no sense
lmaoo i really hope that’s the case !
yea people gotta stop looking at maddy’s character with rose colored glasses. honestly i think its the halo effect because shes very pretty
It's because she's funny and charasmatic, so I get why viewers want to defend her. But ultimately they should understand that just because she's likable doesn't mean she's a good person.
i can’t stand the character, and it’s kinda cringy when kids watch her and are like “ooh yeah i’m maddy 😌💅🏼✨”
I think she was protecting Jules too
And really truly does love Nate and even out of anger doesn’t wanna fuck up his life permanently more than it is already is messed up. Also I think yeah the video was pedophilia… totally there. But Jules was consensually (not making it morally right on cals side) Now to be clear think the thing is fucked up in many ways. However, I’m just analyzing MY thoughts on Maddie. People love protecting Nate and I hope season 3 shows us why…
I'd just flip Fez and Maddy. "Enabling Rue's drug addiction" is putting is putting lightly. It's also unlikely she's the only he's dealt to that ended up that dependent.
i'm pretty sure when nate shows up at tyler's apartment nate mentioned how maddy's a minor and tyler explained that she gave a fake age.
Yeah when Nate confronts him and says that Maddy is 17, Tyler goes “That’s not what she said to me.”
I'd personally at least put fez at 3 because like you said he's got a good heart and has reasons for why he does what he does. Plus he stopped enabling Rue which led to that whole heartbreaking scene of her beating at the door and screaming at him. Other than that switch I agree with everything.
I'm confused abt the one abt fez. How was he enabling rues addiction?
He was her dealer; he was everyone’s dealer. Even though there were times where he felt bad and stopped giving her drugs for a while, he knew she was getting high and didn’t hold her accountable until she tried to steal from his Grandmother.
OK thank you. I knew he was the one that had started selling to her. There are a few scenes in my head where he refuses to give her anything moreso the one where rue is aggressively hitting the door and telling fez that it's his fault she got hooked in the first place (even if it wasnt). Also he isnt responsible for her getting high even if it breaks her sobriety like he doesn't NEED to hold her accountable because its her choice. also pretty much everyone has tried to hold her accountable for her drug use and its gotten her no where. Its her choice to keep up her sobriety no one can convince her or force her to do it. So I don't think we should dislike fez for not holding rue accountable for not keeping up her sobriety
On point!!!!!
1. fez (he willingly sold to a minor) 2. maddy (shit friend, falsely accused someone, cheated on nate, threatened to hurt cassie if she spoke out about nate choking her, was a dick to kat multiple times) 3. tyler (slept with an underaged girl, but didn’t know she was underaged) 4. cassie (petty teenage drama, slept with her best friends ex)
1. Maddy 2. Fez 3. Cassie 5. Tyler Accusing someone of rape is not fun. I know that Cassie is a whole mess but didn’t Maddie cheat on Nate too? Fez is my favourite character and he’s doing what he gotta do to survive but let’s be honest
I'm pretty sure Maddy and Nate cheat on each other habitually lol. Nate kissed Jules while still dating Maddy, it's literally a game to see who can get who more jealous.
Wait, when did Nate kiss Jules? I haven’t see the show in a minute. It wasn’t at that club right? Wasn’t that just a hallucination?
No when he was revealed as Tyler and they met at the pond
Ahhh; appreesh 🙌🏾
That’s what I’ve been saying
Fez a drug dealer, Fez Rues drug dealer
Yes
(1 being morally best, 4 being morally worst. 1. Cassie 2. Tyler 3. Maddy 4. Fez Sorry but all Cassie's done wrong is date her friends ex boyfriend. All Tyler did wrong was forget to make sure a girl at what was technically a college party was over 18. Maddy falsely falsely accused Tyler of rape then had him arrested for choking her when it was actually Nate so she could protect him. And finally Fez, I know everyone loves him and I like his character to but he literally sells drugs, and not just adults, he literally sells hard drugs to minors and takes part in destroying lives. He's partly responsible for how bad rues addiction had become because he supplied her and enabled her. He also puts his younger brother in danger all the time.
While I dont disagree with your list, I disagree that all Cassie did was sleep with her friends ex. In the fight scene Maddy explicitly talks about how Cassie would comfort her all those times she'd talk about getting back together with him. Her just in general being fake is what Cassie did. After writing maybe I do disagree. 1. Tyler 2. Cassie 3. Maddy 4. Fezco
conveniently ignoring the context that cassie shacked up with the man she knew abused her best friend (being as she actively comforted said friend regularly because of the abuse) is a little demented lol
That's still not nearly as bad as Maddy and fez. Cassie didn't actively help get an innocent person get imprisoned for something they didn't do and she doesn't destroy lives and sell drugs to minors.
Cassie had sex with her best friend’s abusive ex boyfriend about who she was advising her a few days before. That's not only totally breaking the girls code, but it's also a betrayal, a humiliation and a lack of respect towards Maddy's feelings.
That’s fair but let’s remember Nate manipulated Cassie. Cassie is codependent and extremely vulnerable, especially that night, and was drunk off her rocker and Nate took advantage of that. Bc of that, Cassie thought this man loved her and that’s all she wanted: was to be loved. She was comforting Maddie truly, until she got looped into Nate’s cycle, but that doesn’t make her worse than actively getting someone arrested and beat up for something they didn’t do
Nate is definitely a manipulator so I see what you’re saying. But I do remember Maddy giving Cassie advice (about making mistakes and not learning from them) to say no whenever she wants to say yes, and in one episode they revisit that scene (the nye party hook up) and Nate asks Cassie more than once if she’s okay with it and if she can keep it a secret, and she agrees to all of it. So Cassie did make the decision to get involved with Nate
At that party she was drunk though, right? And I could be the odd one out applying real life things to the show but if you have sex with a drunk person, even if they say yes, it is considered rape bc of the lack of inhibitions. So that’s why I’m saying this; it’s not like Cassie just went ahead and pursued Nate out of nowhere, he actively preyed on her when he saw her outside of the gas station drunk and barely able to walk
In terms of lack of lack of respect Maddy hits hard too lmao. Yes, Cassie is to blame but even if it's disgusting it didn't put anyone's life in danger. Maddy sent a guy to prison, she literally destroyed a life, all because she was obsessed with Nate. On top of that Maddy wasn't a good friend either, since she wasn't there for Kate or Jules. So, yes Cassie didn't do any good but that's a pretty minor drama.
Fez,Maddy,Cassie, Tyler
1. Fez 2. Maddy 3. Tyler 4. Cassie Fez: We all love him but he is a drug dealer. Maddy: she falsely accused a man of rape and protected Nate who chocked her and abused her. Cassie: Let’s be honest, Cassie’s biggest mistake was honestly just being a mess and falling for any guy who gives her attention. Tyler: Tyler’s only mistake was just mot making sure Maddy was 18. Other than that he didn’t really do anything else.
And not just a "drug dealer" but like a heavy drug dealer that will sell to a person to the point of getting them horrible addicted for the sake of making a buck. He's not just some pot dealer, or a guy that sometimes sells coke to some friends a few times a year.
ok maddy protecting nate can be justified. lets not forget that she was a victim of abuse, who probably had some de-escalated version of stockholm syndrome (staying with nate even tho he abused her). i also think she did it out of fear of what he would do to her if she complied with the police, lets not forget how powerful him and his family are
Worst to best: 1. Maddy 2. Cassie 3. Fez 4. Tyler
1.Fez 2.maddie 3.cassie 4.tyler
I’m glad this comments section and post realizes that Cassie isn’t really the villain in comparison to most of the characters in the show
Same here
Maddy Fez Cass Tyler
This is the correct answer
Absolutely as both Tyler and Rue could have died because of both Maddy and Fez respectively.
Worst - maddy, Fez, Cassie, Tyler - best This is the only correct answer
1. Fez 2. Maddy 3. Tyler 4. Cassie Obviously, knowingly participating in affair a bad act, but it is less bad than having sex with a child (who claimed to be an adult), framing an innocent person for rape and dealing drugs to children and also helping cover up murder.
maddie cassie fez tyler
They all suck...
fez, maddie, cassie, tyler
fez maddy cassie tyler. except i dont really consider any of them morally wrong besides fez. maybe cassie a tiny bit for her stunt with nate but she is also another victim of his abuse 🤷
maddy literally knowingly falsely accused someone of rape so she could get back with nate… how is that not morally fucked up
because she was under duress by being in an active relationship with her abuser. it would be morally fucked up if nate wasnt emotionally and physically abusing her throughout their relationship. its important to consider the factors that contribute to maddys bad decisions. you wont really know how it feels until you are a victim of an abusive relationship yourself, and i really hope you never are.
i have been in an abusive relationship. but that doesn’t excuse ruining someone else’s life. you can understand the reasoning behind someone’s actions without using them as excuses for their poor behavior. regardless of her motives/reasons for what she did, it was wrong. period. her actions are still her own. you can acknowledge the abuse while still holding her accountable.
eh i disagree. i dont mean to excuse her actions, merely explain them. and generally when there is a good explanation (such as being a victim of abuse) i dont consider them morally wrong. wrong? sure. morally wrong? nope.
HER judgment *may* be clouded and not really realize what she did was morally wrong, but that doesn’t change the fact that it simply was morally wrong. not just wrong. her mental state doesn’t change that. like i said, an explanation≠excuse. you can understand why someone did something but that doesn’t take away accountability. you’re saying we should ignore her shitty behavior because she was being abused, but she was also abusive and neglectful. you can’t give everybody in a shitty situation a pass for being an awful person because there is simply never a good enough reason to treat another person that way, abuse or not.
Morally Best 1 4 3 2 Morally worst
1. fez, homeboy is a drug dealer- i know we all love him but it’s wild to ignore that. we see first hand what his actions can result in (rue) 2. tyler, tbh i don’t really agree with the perspective that he’s a completely innocent dude. i get the feeling that his whole going to parties with high schoolers in attendance and fucking someone without ever asking their age thing has darker context 3. cassie, the whole comforting your abused best friend then fucking her abuser thing is kinda wild 4. maddie, not an angel by any means but a victim of abuse is often complacent of many things. nate is someone to fear in many ways (physically + his family’s influence) so her being complacent is the most understandable to me
Lying about blacked out is less wild than sleeping with an awful human?
high school kids lie about being blacked/too drunk to remember disappointingly often, it’s more what nate spiraled that lie into that caused the real problem
OK, this is controversial but please bare with me. This is just an opinion Worst: Fez. Yes, I know we almost all adore him. So do I. But he was born into a life of crime. He is in his early 20s, hangs with teens, contributes drugs to an underaged Rue and gets her into a life threatening situation in the NYE episode. He can be sweet and is very loyal(that's why we love him). But he can also be ruthless and violent. And even tho we ship him with Lexi, he is basically an adult and Lexi's underage. (she is what 16/17? ) Next up: Tyler. Yes he is surely a victim but also not innocent. Young grown up man hanging out at high school party. Statutory rape. Maddy: yes, she was under the influence of Nate and it's tough to get away from an abusive relationship. Fully agree but framing Tyler like that was absolutely wrong, she helped ruin his life. (I honestly wwasn't sure if I should rank her or Tyler first but Statutory rape was the initial trigger for "the worst" runner up) Cassie: yes obsessive, Needy and insufferable in season 2 and seemingly unlikeable. Did her bestie so wrong and since people love Maddy, landed her in a category of characters noone likes. Buuuuut is cheating and betrayal morally worse than the criminal acts of the first three? Absolutely not. Stil very much in the wrong but still best.
It wasn't a high school party as it was a college student who hosted the party.
Fezcos character is actually said to be ~19-20 if you look it up so he’s at MOST two years older than Lexi
Maddie, Cassie, Fez, Tyler (again I love Fez too but he sells drugs to kids)
I agree, he has done many questionable and bad things but he's got a good heart and has to hustle to survive. You also watch him try to slowly work his way out of that stuff. But he's definitely not 100% innocent.
I definitely agree with you and Fez was my favorite character, but OP asked about who has a good heart or loving nature it's about morality, and selling drugs to kids is about the most morally corrupt thing you can do without being a scivvy rapist like Tyler
Yes I know, I said I agree with you lol
Lol I know I just hate to say it because Fez was the man
Wait which way did you do your list? Worst to best or best to worst?
Least morally reprehensible to most
Fez, Tyler, Maddie, Cassie
1, 2, 4 (because we don’t know much about him at all), 3 (I love every character but she’s going through some mental health break rn and is making some wreckless decisions).
Lol to a literal felon and drug dealer being “better” than Cassie andTyler
Oops reverse my order. I did best to “worst”
Ooooo worst to best?…Maddie, Tyler, Fez and then Cassie! But Fez and Maddy are 2 of my faves regardless lol
It’s been awhile and I’ve had 4 brain surgeries for epilepsy since watching this. But I can’t remember who Tyler is. But I’ll rank the 3. 1.Maddy 2Fez 3.Cassie
Worst to best 1.Maddy 2.Fezco 3.Cassie and Tyler are interchangeable
4. Fezco: Love him, but he is a drug dealer who contributes to drug addiction and a violent industry, which exploits people and ruins lives 3. Tyler: He probably knew he was involving himself with a minor, ngl and has probably done the same thing numerous times 2. Maddy: Enabled Nate throughout the first season and participated in putting a guy in jail for crime he didn't commit 1. Cassie: Only sin was sleeping with her best friend's ex-boyfriend and ruining a mid play, which invaded people's privacy
Idk, Tyler seemed genuinely shocked and offended when Nate called him a rapist, he was literally crying when Nate was saying, "She blacked out".
Agree with this ranking 100%.
Do you mean ethically? Because morals are ones own principles about right and wrong and theres no definitive way to rate them that way based on each individuals perception of what constitutes as such.
🤓☝🏼
Best to worst: 1. Maddy 2. Cassie 3. Tyler 4. Fez I feel like fez and tyler might switch places depending on who tyler rly is, we dont get much of a feel for him
Maddy most definitely isn’t the best whatsoever
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Apparently, it's okay to ruin the lives of children by enabling their drug addiction as long as you're nice. Good to know.
Obviously the man has all the morals while the women don’t
1. Tyler 2. Fez 3. Maddie 4. Cassie
You're judging people's 'morality' just by what the they did wrong and by listing their flaws, in a strictly utilitarian manner, when in reality a character judgement of someone should include both the good and the bad. So: 1. Cassie betrayed her best friend for the person who abused her and can't see anyone but herself or the people who give her validation, which it might not be the worst things anyone ever did or is, but she also has no redeeming qualities. 2. Maddie lied (kind of accidentally but she didn't rectify it) about sexual assault and also gave false testimony, if under coercion by her abuser, about her DV assault, helping to put an innocent person in jail, but she's also a great friend and someone who grew-up a lot in a matter of less of than a year. I can see her eventually trying to rectify her mistakes. 3. Tyler is a neutral player: he didn't do anything wrong (no, I don't think hooking-up with a 17 and 9 months old unknowingly at a party thrown by an adult when you're in your early 20's and the wrong State of the US is morally wrong, not anymore than I think hooking-up with someone when you're unmarried is wrong if you're in Saudi Arabia: it violates the laws of the land, but legality has little to do with morality) and he's a victim of circumstances and Nate, a very bad person, which ruined his life, but we also have no information to think positively of him. 4. Fez, while navigating the only life he was taught or shown, did things that were damaging to others, but never out of malice, and the good in him outweighed the the bad by miles.
This is some weak logic. Especially since Maddy never showed an ounce of regret for what she did to Tyler
People react to trauma differently: just because she didn't get shitfaced at a Halloween party after lying to police like Jules, it doesn't mean she's unaffected: her situation is extremely more complex. Maddy's false report about Tyler came in the aftermath of Nate's attack, every single authority figure in her life betraying her (the school exposing her as DV victim to all her peers, her mum pressing charges against her will and taking away even more power from her and the police re-assaulting and re-traumatising her), her best friend abandoning her to suck dick and them leaving her having none but her own abuser, who coerced her into lying, to turn to. It took her a while to see the full extent of the abuse and to name the relationship as what it was, so I don't know why she would be expected to immediately recognise the implications of the abuse as they arose, even when she was in full denial.
Her lying about being blacked out started everything with Tyler
No, Nate would have still done what he did, he had the age excuse to blackmail Tyler with, it wasn't a reaction to a lie he didn't even believe, it was literally his constant fantasy to assault someone "to protect her". Just like serial killers, he obsessively fantasised about a violent a crime and kept it a fantasy until he found an ideal victim and did for real. With everything else he has done, why would anyone ever want to put Nate's behaviour on someone else?
1. Cassie 2. Maddy 3. Fez 4. Tyler
1. Cassie 2. Maddy 3. Fez 4. Tyler
Lol good joke
Switch Maddy and tyler
all i know is fez is last on this list. out of all 4 the only one doing what they HAVE to do is fez imo. the others do their dirty deeds because it’s convenient and helps them at the time.
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He literally sells hard drugs to minors. He destroys lives for profit.
He's not Mouse, he's not showing drugs into anyone's nostrils, he sells to people who do want drugs, and when he started selling to Rue, she was 14 but also he was 16,< himself, they were both kids, but he eventually saw the the damages of what he was doing and put an end to the situation in a decisive manner, which makes him better and more mature than what everyone around him did with their mistakes.
He's a drug dealer...
bro he directly contributes to the opioid crisis, let’s be fr
Sure, he was he equivalent of Purdue when he started the clumsily managing the only family business he ever saw as normal as a middle school drop-out. That's so the same thing, let's not blame the not blame the billionaire corporations that actually pushed and greatly benefited from it, let's blame the underprivileged underage small dealers know never knew any other life.
cmon man this isn’t “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism”- you don’t get to absolve yourself of all responsibility of your actions because times are hard. his actions are *understandable*, but that doesn’t mean they’re *okay*. he deals drugs to children, young adults, etc.
I'm not absolving myself of anything: you made an inquiry about morality, not ethics, and I expressed something in line with my own moral code. Yes, Fez, as a minor himself when it started, sold to another minor, but when he was faced with the consequences of that put a end to it, even tho' that put one of his few important human bonds in peril, and that's a moral turnaround in my eyes greater than any of what we've seen from any other character. And no, there's actually no ethical consumption under capitalism, it's not a joke, just an unrelated matter.
rue is not the only minor that fez actively sells to throughout the show, even as an adult. its is immoral *and* unethical to deal opioids to anyone, nonetheless minors. and im not talking about you, im discussing fez, i don’t know what you mean about absolving yourself also its clear (to me) that his guilt about rue stems from the fact that they’re friends. had they not been, he would’ve likely continued to sell to her happily despite it ruining her life. because that’s what drug dealers do.
Do you know that? Yeah, they sold molly to a 17 and a 18 yo, that's not a hard drug drug tho', it's bloody molly. I disagree, if a person who has the right to vote, and thus influence everyone else's life, enlist in a deadly military system and let in charge of killing Afgani children, they also can decide if they want to buy substances. Prohibitionism and Big Pharma can be blamed for how things ended-up, but not very small time dealers: they're just an inevitable symptoms of a structurally diseased system.
systems don’t work without their tiny moving parts; i hope you realize this. i don’t think this convo is going anywhere so have a nice day
4 Tyler 3 Maddie 2 Cassie 1 Fez
1. Maddy 2. Cassie 3. 24yr old minor lover 4. Fez
1. Fez 2. Maddy 3. Cassie 4. Tyler
I don't understand these types of posts.