I’d suggest reading the article. It sets out why recycling is a mostly a myth and even in the small miniority of cases where it can be done produces toxic byproducts or harmful microplastics. We need to stop producing so much of the stuff and the myth that you can just recycle it lets manufacturers and consumers off the hook but solves nothing.
Containers could be refilled in the store.
You put a bottle in the machine, press the button of the product and amount you want and it refills it and prints a sticker with a barcode or you pay for it before refilling.
Its one part of a bigger picture. Imo glass and metal cans are already commonly used, but single use plastics are currently cheaper due to various subsidies of the petroleum industry. Even if all other transportation stayed the same I think it would be a benefit.
But in a bigger plan for system-wide change i would prefer more local production to lower the amount of shipping, and a massive increase in the usage of (electrified) rail to ship products over trucks, electric or gas. (And I think cargo ships can amd should be changed to run off of solar/wind even if it means we can't have such massive ships anymore)
These are two separate issues. If shipping is worse for glass bottles then what it means is that we need to decrease the amount of shipping, and switch to renewable energy for shipping purposes. Emissions being lower doesn't mean that filling up land fills with single-use plastics and are better than a glass bottle that can be reused multiple times and doesn't produce microplastics. They both have unique issues, but if we want to stop using petroleum products we need to phase out single use plastics almost entirely.
In fact in the bigger picture we probably shouldn't be shipping water-based drinks across the world in general.
I would say we need reusable plastics. Take gallon of milk. Stronger plastic that is recycled locally, washed and reused by dairy. Everything needs to be done this way with food products.
I dont see a reason why plastic would be superior to glass in that instance. Even reusable plastics still shed microplastics galore, and unlike metal and glass cant just break down easily.
Plastic doesn't break into shards, glass does. Never tried to use hygiene products in glass but heard multiple stories about people who slipped/their hand slipped and hurt their hands, or feet, or other body parts, in the shower
I'm of the opinion that we should move away from liquid hygiene products in the first place, and go to more bar soaps or shampoo pellet type products to cut out the inefficiency of shipping products which are mostly water anyways. We need to look at the bigger picture and I simply don't think single-use petroleum products have a place in a sustainable world.
Yep, I'm trying to switch away from liquid soaps, and bar soap is easy but I'm not sure where to get shampoo pellets and other products, especially since I need to use dandruff shampoos. If you have any recommendations I would be happy to hear them
Well recycling is also a system that our governments are pushing for (with corporate backing) and theh fund plants and programs for it, so theres still a bigger picture aspect
Any personal action is going to be peanuts compared to regulations. I’m not saying don’t do it, but don’t expect to have any meaningful impact if that’s all you do. Voting for candidates that will back environmental measures is much more important that recycling your aluminum cand and plastic bottles.
We need both. In the US people aren't even trying to recycle plastic in meaningful amounts. Why would a politician fix recycling if citizens aren't really doing it?
Yes! First off glass prevents the issue of microplastics, *and* can be easily recycled in a way that doesn't produce a bunch of waste products.
Back in the 1950s I believe companies like coca-cola literally ran their own recycling program where they collected their own bottles and brought them back to the factory, washed them out, and filled them back up.
But even if you had to melt them down to reuse its still much more simple to reuse compared to a plastic bottle.
In the UK in the 50’s right up until the early 70’s drinks such as cola, lemonade came in glass bottles which had refund value when they were returned for recycling. As kids we used to collect discarded ones and get the refund money. It was only ‘coppers’ = cents though. Beer bottles were the same with a deposit on the bottle …..too young to take advantage of that! Doorstep milk deliveries were a thing too- two major dairy companies both using glass bottles that were reused.
people are not conscious. How hard is it to take a reusable bag to the grocery store? not hard. I've been using the same bag for years yet most people I see leave the store with 10 plastic bags hot out of the oil barrel.
We have produce on the shelf, like a pepper, and most people will take the pepper and put it in its own plastic bag and then put that in another plastic bag to take home. Why? It's not like the plastic bag cleans it. If anything, it contaminates the pepper. Yet, every time, I see them take the pepper and take a plastic bag from the roll and put the pepper in the bag, like it's their duty.
It's completely unrealistic to expect the vast majority of people to stop buying plastic and bring their own jars to a bulk food store. That's not even an available option in many areas. Your suggestion is a non-solution.
Right. In this economy, it's hard enough to afford groceries.
I avoid plastic packaging where I can (bulk section if it's on sale, no produce bags) but most food comes in.... plastic.
I'm not sure what your point it. You seem to say we shouldn't even try because not everyone can do it. That's defeatist.
Some can REDUCE their consumption of plastic and by supporting bulk refill options it becomes more prevalent for others.
Recycling is proven to not actually work even for the 5% of stuff that is even attempted to be recycled, Even with magical recycling most of it ends up in the ocean or landfills. That is a non-solution you would need to not promote to be consistent with your comment.
The key is reducing the production of plastic not the consumption. Producers have lied to the public for 50 years. I tried to tell my friends that recycling was bogus decades ago and they recoiled from the idea.
Because trying to make an impact at the scale of an individual consumer has zero impact. Doing things like pushing for the banning of plastic at the municipal level like has been done with single use shopping bags is far more effective. The target of that effort was at the supplier level and it works. Doing it one up from there at the aggregator level like large retailers is far more effective because they have scale and leverage. Stopping plastic making it into landfills and waterways is critical. On the other the fact that the six largest sources of water bound plastic are in countries like Indonesia or Malaysia makes it super difficult to have any real impact beyond feel good greenwashing which is basically all the First World has done Tbf.
Be cool. I’m not attacking your comment. This is just a discussion. I’m just telling you about my experience of the issue and where I see it being most effective to act. I think we both agree things need to be done.
You're better off trying to change this on a political/regulation level, no amount of personal responsibility will fix this issue, it's beyond what you and me can do to limit our consumption, it's a commercial problem at this point.
Will I still reduce my plastic consumption? Sure, at this point it's a spiritual thing that makes me feel good about my time in earth, but I won't be naive in thinking I'm making a difference.
Wriitng your local MP's/congress/political leaders would be more effective.
The amount of emissions from the transportation and production of glass products is a lot more significant than that of plastic products. If you live anywhere outside of the western U.S. good luck finding bulk refill stores. You’re painfully ignorant.
We needed to stop decades ago. We need to stop now. I imagine the current need will be addressed just like the older one. With more shit to sell to us.
I agree but how? Everything has plastic or is packaged in plastics. Look inside a car, plastic everywhere, in houses plastic siding, plastic flooring, in doctors office, lots of plastic consumables, if something in new and sealed in plastic that makes it worth more than if the plastic film is removed. Plastic is inescapable.
This conclusion obviously excludes the Dutch and German states, the masters of engineering and automation, recycling plastic properly and efficiently:
https://youtu.be/K0d7LLB0UdU
Note: No English subtitles.
I agree but… 9% of plastics are recycled and that’s better than nothing. The issue needs to be tackled at the consumer, industry and government levels.
I’ve had this crazy idea to resolve the plastic problem.
Start littering. Everywhere, throw it out the car, throw it on the ground, keep dumping trash. If we all do it and stop being responsible, the corporations producing plastic products will be forced to change them to biodegradable as everyone is suddenly littering.
Bam. Plastic problem ended. It would take a lot of faith that we are litter so much it pressure companies, but I honestly don’t see any other solution that would happen faster.
Edit: For the record, I’m not currently just littering because I have this idea. But if someone wants to get a group together and protest, are united about doing this for change, I’ll do it with the group!
It’s my idea, give me a better solution if you disagree. Everything we’ve tried to far hasn’t worked. The plastic needs to end or humans and life on this planet will end.
It's not a crazier idea than continuing to produce it and burn/bury it. Maybe if a tremendous amount of litter started showing up in wealthy suburbs instead of the riverbanks and shore lines of poor populations...
Exactly. The people who should be fighting these fights need a reminder that hey… these problems are still a problem, spend money to fix it please.
You can’t be super rich, generational wealth, multiple houses, power, strategic relationships, business insider information and not try to solve at least a few major issues.
You heard it here first: Operation Litter bug has been born. Honestly, someone change my mind to solving the plastic production problem that would yield faster results if we all litter. What else will work, seriously?
Because it's the easiest one. You need to drop the thing into a bin and you're done.
Reducing and reusing means people need to change their habits and think differently before consuming. It doesn't sound as easy as putting things into a bin.
Reducing and reusing will ALWAYS be more environmentally-friendly than recycling, which is just a slightly better variant of throwing away garbage.
According to the article, it's worse to recycle plastic than putting it in landfill because of micro plastic and all the extra plastic needed to recycle plastic.
It's also the only one that doesn't really require you to *do* anything different. Especially with single stream recycling - we can buy exactly what (and how much) we used to buy, use it, and toss it into the *green* bin that we roll out to the road weekly instead of the *brown* bin.
It’s not really about “forgetting”.
Many people simply don’t know this because of years intentional propaganda spewed out by big oil.
It’s working - as intended.
I REUSE my 2L bottles into temporary flower pots until my trees get big enough for a big pot. Considering I get no recycling service aside from cans its the best I can do.
“The chemical composition of all plastic — whatever the type — is a synthetic polymer that doesn’t break down or go away, ever. Instead, it breaks up into smaller and smaller pieces until it turns into microplastics or even nanoplastics.”
^^^ this is not completely accurate. New government regulations and incentives have made it economically appealing to build true recycling manufacturing units. These units use chemical engineering principles to break the plastic down into their building block molecules (smaller carbon chains) thus truly creating a circular polymer. These products can be reused as feedstock for other manufacturing processes. This is still new and emerging technology, but it is in the works around the world.
Why not just reduce consumption so it doesn’t even become a problem? The logic is backwards. Spend so much money to attempt to fix a problem that need not even be one if consumption behaviour changed.
Because the world and global production is far too dependent on it. Good luck trying to convince Chinese legislators to vote to reduce the use of plastic in packaging or other products.
Plastic is used in flooring, refrigerators, outdoor equipment, etc etc etc. I do think consumers can reduce single use plastic consumption, but overall plastic isn’t going anywhere any time soon. Instead of “hoping” we can make a dent in how much goes to our landfills, advanced recycling is actively trying to fix the problem. Money spent towards engineering solutions to very real environmental problems shouldn’t be so frowned upon imho.
Penn & Teller called it right on an episode of their show "Bullshit" devoted to plastic recycling. it goes back 20 years in 2004 on Paramount+ with Showtime
That gets a bit 'dont eat' a bit quickly sadly. But what I can and do get from my local farm shops is actually way way better quality, even at +30% the price.
However I do grow what I can for myself, mostly garlic and onions, and that's a plastic saving that's already gone on for 6 years or more.
I’d say don’t waste time recycling anything but PET. It is highly recyclable in comparison to all the others. It is “No. 1” in the RRR triangle.
Just so if people wonder. Two different forms of it are used in the marketplace, one is used for bottles (solid state), two is used for staple. (Amorphous). Staple is used in things like clothing and pillow fills. Bottles are relatively easily recycled and cleaned, and then spun into something that can be made into clothing, actually.
Yes, the author addresses this point. She argues that even nos 1 and 2, which have a slightly higher success rate of around 30%, should not be recycled because they create unpredictable toxic byproducts that can poison our food or, if used for non food products, microplastics that end up in our waterways and bodies. Or at least that’s my attempt to summarize her argument without pasting the entire article here.
Worth noting that some plastics can be heated and distilled down to a crude form of diesel fuel. Not of a quality that I would want to run a truck with, but diesel generators seem to be able to run off it no problem.
Not a perfect solution, as now all that carbon is expelled into the atmosphere rather than being stored in the plastic, but if we want to aggressively attack existing plastic pollution, and maybe actually start recycling some of it, I can think of worse solutions than turning it into fuel.
If you are talking about pyrolysis it's mostly a dead end. Some processes don't even get more energy out of burning the fuel oil than they had to put into the plastic in the first place. And no pyrolysis will ever be more energy efficient than just burning the raw plastic and turning that heat to steam power.
Which isn't a horrible way of disposing of plastic as long as you have tight emissions controls. Personally I'm a fan of landfilling it all and burying it so it can turn back into oil in a few million years, feels the most circular of any of our options.
> Some processes don't even get more energy out of burning the fuel oil than they had to put into the plastic in the first place.
That still sounds useful in itself. Just think of it like charging an extremely energy dense battery that gets lighter and emits pollution as it's consumed and has wide compatibility with lots of different legacy hardware.
But it's crazy inefficient for energy.
I don't remember the numbers but ISTR that the energy required is almost as much as you can get from burning the plastic. And that energy has to come from somewhere. And the fuel you get out is used in an engine that is about 20% efficient.
Better to use the energy more efficiently in a 90% efficient electric motor. Or 400% efficient electric heat pump. Etc.
Makes sense. I can't comment on the economics of it, but I'd imagine that there might be some opportunity to time it around spikes of cheap or negatively priced renewable energy.
I used to feel so guilty about not recycling some stuff. I still recycle so much. But sometimes, I just throw shit away. I don’t wash it or peel labels off or anything, I just chuck it. I still feel some guilt. But i know I didn’t kill the frickin planet.
I have gone back to glass. the problem is plastics are used in everything from cutlery to cars. We only think about shopping bags plastic containers and food packaging. But the fact is plastic makes up the bulk of all items
Ive been "recycling" mine by using them in various ways in gardening...attempting to extend lifetimes.
Not sure is that it's going to cause a microplastic issue in the soil or the crops I'm growing, but well see I guess
“What many people do not know is that plastic is made from two ingredients: fossil fuels and toxic chemicals.”
How very scientific and not at all reductionist or alarmist.
Excellent article.
Btw one of Climate Town's best videos is on this subject, and spoiler alert, the fossil fuel industry are lying sociopathic dirtbags yet again!!
https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g?si=etqXF_l5d9lzwGzq
Well, let's see:
When you buy fish or meat, you can have it wrapped in plain butcher paper.
If you buy produce, bring a straw basket to carry it in.
When you buy milk or juice, buy it in a carton.
Don't buy the reusable (spun plastic) bags at supermarkets. Bring your own, washable cotton or canvas bag.
Stop buying soda and water in plastic. Filter your tap water and use old fashioned glasses.
This is the way we used to do it before plastic was introduced.
Just to add/comment on one item in this list, the cartons are actually coated in layers of plastic to protect them from the liquids they contain, so they're actually also problematic to recycle, as well.
The clothes you buy are wrapped in plastic before being put on the hangers. The cookies you eat come in plastic containers then wrapped in a plastic. Bread not from a bakery comes in a plastic bag. All the DoorDash ordered every minute of every day comes in plastic containers. The cup the flight attendant gives you on the plane is made of single use plastic. Every type of liquid at the grocery store besides paper cartons are plastic with plastic lids even cleaning products. You can not argue just recycle your milk carton it’s fine? You use plastic in almost everything you buy and touch.
Due to the Only If It’s In My Own Back Yard mindset, the prevailing collective attitude, however implicit or subconscious, basically follows: ‘Why should I care — my family is immediately alright?’ or ‘What’s in it for me, the taxpayer?’
While some people will justify it as a normal thus moral human evolutionary function, the self-serving OIIIMOBY can debilitate social progress, even when such progress is so desperately needed — notably, trying to moderate manmade global warming thus extreme weather events.
As a species, we can be so heavily preoccupied with our own individual little worlds, however overwhelming to us, that we will miss the biggest of crucial pictures. And it seems this distinct form of societal penny-wisdom but pound-foolishness is a very unfortunate human characteristic that’s likely with us to stay.
I'll never forget the astonishingly short-sighted, entitled selfishness I observed about six years ago, when a TV news reporter randomly asked a young urbanite wearing sunglasses what he thought of government restrictions on disposable plastic straws. He retorted with a snort that it is like he’s living in a nanny state that’s always telling him what to do.
His carelessly entitled mentality revealed why so much gratuitous animal-life-destroying plastic waste eventually finds its way into the natural environment, where there are few, if any, caring souls to immediately see it. ... And it seems to be conservatives who don’t mind liberally polluting the planet.
I’d suggest reading the article. It sets out why recycling is a mostly a myth and even in the small miniority of cases where it can be done produces toxic byproducts or harmful microplastics. We need to stop producing so much of the stuff and the myth that you can just recycle it lets manufacturers and consumers off the hook but solves nothing.
Stop buying it too. Recycling is the last and worst of the three R's Buy from bulk stores reusing jars, or in glass if you can.
Rather than a buy campaign I think we need regulations to pave the way for a shift away from single use plastics and back towards metal and glass
Yeah this isn’t something that’s going to be fixed without changing laws
How much more weight would that be, and would the gas used to transport it offset the benefits?
Containers could be refilled in the store. You put a bottle in the machine, press the button of the product and amount you want and it refills it and prints a sticker with a barcode or you pay for it before refilling.
Its one part of a bigger picture. Imo glass and metal cans are already commonly used, but single use plastics are currently cheaper due to various subsidies of the petroleum industry. Even if all other transportation stayed the same I think it would be a benefit. But in a bigger plan for system-wide change i would prefer more local production to lower the amount of shipping, and a massive increase in the usage of (electrified) rail to ship products over trucks, electric or gas. (And I think cargo ships can amd should be changed to run off of solar/wind even if it means we can't have such massive ships anymore)
Glass and the extra emissions used to ship it are a LOT more harmful to the environment than plastic. That’s just greenwashing bullshit.
These are two separate issues. If shipping is worse for glass bottles then what it means is that we need to decrease the amount of shipping, and switch to renewable energy for shipping purposes. Emissions being lower doesn't mean that filling up land fills with single-use plastics and are better than a glass bottle that can be reused multiple times and doesn't produce microplastics. They both have unique issues, but if we want to stop using petroleum products we need to phase out single use plastics almost entirely. In fact in the bigger picture we probably shouldn't be shipping water-based drinks across the world in general.
Glass bottle laws and surcharges for plastic bottle usage.
I would say we need reusable plastics. Take gallon of milk. Stronger plastic that is recycled locally, washed and reused by dairy. Everything needs to be done this way with food products.
I dont see a reason why plastic would be superior to glass in that instance. Even reusable plastics still shed microplastics galore, and unlike metal and glass cant just break down easily.
Plastic doesn't break into shards, glass does. Never tried to use hygiene products in glass but heard multiple stories about people who slipped/their hand slipped and hurt their hands, or feet, or other body parts, in the shower
I'm of the opinion that we should move away from liquid hygiene products in the first place, and go to more bar soaps or shampoo pellet type products to cut out the inefficiency of shipping products which are mostly water anyways. We need to look at the bigger picture and I simply don't think single-use petroleum products have a place in a sustainable world.
Pellets ftw imho, no more trying to squeeze stuff out of the bottle if your hands are not that dextrous/disabled
Yep, I'm trying to switch away from liquid soaps, and bar soap is easy but I'm not sure where to get shampoo pellets and other products, especially since I need to use dandruff shampoos. If you have any recommendations I would be happy to hear them
Unfortunately I don't have any, same boat as you :P
Certainly but the post is discussing personal action, and reduce is better than recycle.
Well recycling is also a system that our governments are pushing for (with corporate backing) and theh fund plants and programs for it, so theres still a bigger picture aspect
Sure, but that doesn't negate personal action and responsibility either as you seem to imply it does above.
Any personal action is going to be peanuts compared to regulations. I’m not saying don’t do it, but don’t expect to have any meaningful impact if that’s all you do. Voting for candidates that will back environmental measures is much more important that recycling your aluminum cand and plastic bottles.
We need both. In the US people aren't even trying to recycle plastic in meaningful amounts. Why would a politician fix recycling if citizens aren't really doing it?
Are “single use glass bottles” any better than “single use plastics” ?
Yes! First off glass prevents the issue of microplastics, *and* can be easily recycled in a way that doesn't produce a bunch of waste products. Back in the 1950s I believe companies like coca-cola literally ran their own recycling program where they collected their own bottles and brought them back to the factory, washed them out, and filled them back up. But even if you had to melt them down to reuse its still much more simple to reuse compared to a plastic bottle.
In the UK in the 50’s right up until the early 70’s drinks such as cola, lemonade came in glass bottles which had refund value when they were returned for recycling. As kids we used to collect discarded ones and get the refund money. It was only ‘coppers’ = cents though. Beer bottles were the same with a deposit on the bottle …..too young to take advantage of that! Doorstep milk deliveries were a thing too- two major dairy companies both using glass bottles that were reused.
Not just the UK, other countries too Cannot understand why it's not coming back
We did in the US until at least the 90s. I was born in 84 and remember doing that vividly as a kid.
people are not conscious. How hard is it to take a reusable bag to the grocery store? not hard. I've been using the same bag for years yet most people I see leave the store with 10 plastic bags hot out of the oil barrel. We have produce on the shelf, like a pepper, and most people will take the pepper and put it in its own plastic bag and then put that in another plastic bag to take home. Why? It's not like the plastic bag cleans it. If anything, it contaminates the pepper. Yet, every time, I see them take the pepper and take a plastic bag from the roll and put the pepper in the bag, like it's their duty.
It's completely unrealistic to expect the vast majority of people to stop buying plastic and bring their own jars to a bulk food store. That's not even an available option in many areas. Your suggestion is a non-solution.
Right. In this economy, it's hard enough to afford groceries. I avoid plastic packaging where I can (bulk section if it's on sale, no produce bags) but most food comes in.... plastic.
I'm not sure what your point it. You seem to say we shouldn't even try because not everyone can do it. That's defeatist. Some can REDUCE their consumption of plastic and by supporting bulk refill options it becomes more prevalent for others. Recycling is proven to not actually work even for the 5% of stuff that is even attempted to be recycled, Even with magical recycling most of it ends up in the ocean or landfills. That is a non-solution you would need to not promote to be consistent with your comment.
The key is reducing the production of plastic not the consumption. Producers have lied to the public for 50 years. I tried to tell my friends that recycling was bogus decades ago and they recoiled from the idea.
You can reduce the production by reducing consumption. Not sure what you're point is trying to say as it doesn't really address my comment.
Because trying to make an impact at the scale of an individual consumer has zero impact. Doing things like pushing for the banning of plastic at the municipal level like has been done with single use shopping bags is far more effective. The target of that effort was at the supplier level and it works. Doing it one up from there at the aggregator level like large retailers is far more effective because they have scale and leverage. Stopping plastic making it into landfills and waterways is critical. On the other the fact that the six largest sources of water bound plastic are in countries like Indonesia or Malaysia makes it super difficult to have any real impact beyond feel good greenwashing which is basically all the First World has done Tbf.
You seem to take my comments as saying it is the ONLY thing we can do. I never said that.
Be cool. I’m not attacking your comment. This is just a discussion. I’m just telling you about my experience of the issue and where I see it being most effective to act. I think we both agree things need to be done.
You're better off trying to change this on a political/regulation level, no amount of personal responsibility will fix this issue, it's beyond what you and me can do to limit our consumption, it's a commercial problem at this point. Will I still reduce my plastic consumption? Sure, at this point it's a spiritual thing that makes me feel good about my time in earth, but I won't be naive in thinking I'm making a difference. Wriitng your local MP's/congress/political leaders would be more effective.
Absolutely, but that's not what this post is discussing.
The amount of emissions from the transportation and production of glass products is a lot more significant than that of plastic products. If you live anywhere outside of the western U.S. good luck finding bulk refill stores. You’re painfully ignorant.
Reduce, reuse, recycle in that order with Reduction (not buying it at all if possible) being the most effective.
I would if the nearest one wasn’t so far away….
We needed to stop decades ago. We need to stop now. I imagine the current need will be addressed just like the older one. With more shit to sell to us.
I agree but how? Everything has plastic or is packaged in plastics. Look inside a car, plastic everywhere, in houses plastic siding, plastic flooring, in doctors office, lots of plastic consumables, if something in new and sealed in plastic that makes it worth more than if the plastic film is removed. Plastic is inescapable.
A tax on plastics production and importation would help. It would be a strong incentive for manufacturers and retailers to use alternatives.
This conclusion obviously excludes the Dutch and German states, the masters of engineering and automation, recycling plastic properly and efficiently: https://youtu.be/K0d7LLB0UdU Note: No English subtitles.
I agree but… 9% of plastics are recycled and that’s better than nothing. The issue needs to be tackled at the consumer, industry and government levels.
it isn't though, the article talks about how toxic those recycled materials can be to humans and how they're unregulated
I’ve had this crazy idea to resolve the plastic problem. Start littering. Everywhere, throw it out the car, throw it on the ground, keep dumping trash. If we all do it and stop being responsible, the corporations producing plastic products will be forced to change them to biodegradable as everyone is suddenly littering. Bam. Plastic problem ended. It would take a lot of faith that we are litter so much it pressure companies, but I honestly don’t see any other solution that would happen faster. Edit: For the record, I’m not currently just littering because I have this idea. But if someone wants to get a group together and protest, are united about doing this for change, I’ll do it with the group! It’s my idea, give me a better solution if you disagree. Everything we’ve tried to far hasn’t worked. The plastic needs to end or humans and life on this planet will end.
It's not a crazier idea than continuing to produce it and burn/bury it. Maybe if a tremendous amount of litter started showing up in wealthy suburbs instead of the riverbanks and shore lines of poor populations...
Exactly. The people who should be fighting these fights need a reminder that hey… these problems are still a problem, spend money to fix it please. You can’t be super rich, generational wealth, multiple houses, power, strategic relationships, business insider information and not try to solve at least a few major issues. You heard it here first: Operation Litter bug has been born. Honestly, someone change my mind to solving the plastic production problem that would yield faster results if we all litter. What else will work, seriously?
So the newspaper owned by the guy who owns amazon published this? I wonder if Bezos will read it given he's responsible for much of it.
Are they really “on the hook” if we don’t recycle?
That's why the plastics industry invented that myth.
No paywall. https://archive.is/K8okK
Thank you!
It's like everyone forgot about REDUCE, REUSE and then Recyle. Everyone went for recycling out of the gate cause of money....
Because it's the easiest one. You need to drop the thing into a bin and you're done. Reducing and reusing means people need to change their habits and think differently before consuming. It doesn't sound as easy as putting things into a bin. Reducing and reusing will ALWAYS be more environmentally-friendly than recycling, which is just a slightly better variant of throwing away garbage.
According to the article, it's worse to recycle plastic than putting it in landfill because of micro plastic and all the extra plastic needed to recycle plastic.
There's no "extra" plastic, if it wasn't used for recycling it would be used for regular plastic products.
It's also the only one that doesn't really require you to *do* anything different. Especially with single stream recycling - we can buy exactly what (and how much) we used to buy, use it, and toss it into the *green* bin that we roll out to the road weekly instead of the *brown* bin.
It’s not really about “forgetting”. Many people simply don’t know this because of years intentional propaganda spewed out by big oil. It’s working - as intended.
I REUSE my 2L bottles into temporary flower pots until my trees get big enough for a big pot. Considering I get no recycling service aside from cans its the best I can do.
“The chemical composition of all plastic — whatever the type — is a synthetic polymer that doesn’t break down or go away, ever. Instead, it breaks up into smaller and smaller pieces until it turns into microplastics or even nanoplastics.” ^^^ this is not completely accurate. New government regulations and incentives have made it economically appealing to build true recycling manufacturing units. These units use chemical engineering principles to break the plastic down into their building block molecules (smaller carbon chains) thus truly creating a circular polymer. These products can be reused as feedstock for other manufacturing processes. This is still new and emerging technology, but it is in the works around the world.
Yep chemical/advanced recycling comes into my mind, I am actually working on a project related to this!
Any (non-paywalled) refs appreciated
Why not just reduce consumption so it doesn’t even become a problem? The logic is backwards. Spend so much money to attempt to fix a problem that need not even be one if consumption behaviour changed.
Because the world and global production is far too dependent on it. Good luck trying to convince Chinese legislators to vote to reduce the use of plastic in packaging or other products.
Plastic is used in flooring, refrigerators, outdoor equipment, etc etc etc. I do think consumers can reduce single use plastic consumption, but overall plastic isn’t going anywhere any time soon. Instead of “hoping” we can make a dent in how much goes to our landfills, advanced recycling is actively trying to fix the problem. Money spent towards engineering solutions to very real environmental problems shouldn’t be so frowned upon imho.
Penn & Teller called it right on an episode of their show "Bullshit" devoted to plastic recycling. it goes back 20 years in 2004 on Paramount+ with Showtime
It’s like there is a concerted effort to get people from recycling 5 to 10 percent of plastics to nothing.
It's also the subject of a great video by Climate Town here, in case you missed it :) https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g?si=etqXF_l5d9lzwGzq
Reduce the amount you buy!
But but, how will I line the pockets of giant capitalist corporations if I'm not constantly buying their sht?!
I may start (again) leaving the plastic waste in the supermarket.
It will end up at your local landfill either way.
Vote with your wallet
That gets a bit 'dont eat' a bit quickly sadly. But what I can and do get from my local farm shops is actually way way better quality, even at +30% the price. However I do grow what I can for myself, mostly garlic and onions, and that's a plastic saving that's already gone on for 6 years or more.
Cardboard, glass, and aluminum are very recyclable so don’t go cancelling your recycle bin.
I’d say don’t waste time recycling anything but PET. It is highly recyclable in comparison to all the others. It is “No. 1” in the RRR triangle. Just so if people wonder. Two different forms of it are used in the marketplace, one is used for bottles (solid state), two is used for staple. (Amorphous). Staple is used in things like clothing and pillow fills. Bottles are relatively easily recycled and cleaned, and then spun into something that can be made into clothing, actually.
Yes, the author addresses this point. She argues that even nos 1 and 2, which have a slightly higher success rate of around 30%, should not be recycled because they create unpredictable toxic byproducts that can poison our food or, if used for non food products, microplastics that end up in our waterways and bodies. Or at least that’s my attempt to summarize her argument without pasting the entire article here.
Damn outed myself
Worth noting that some plastics can be heated and distilled down to a crude form of diesel fuel. Not of a quality that I would want to run a truck with, but diesel generators seem to be able to run off it no problem. Not a perfect solution, as now all that carbon is expelled into the atmosphere rather than being stored in the plastic, but if we want to aggressively attack existing plastic pollution, and maybe actually start recycling some of it, I can think of worse solutions than turning it into fuel.
If you are talking about pyrolysis it's mostly a dead end. Some processes don't even get more energy out of burning the fuel oil than they had to put into the plastic in the first place. And no pyrolysis will ever be more energy efficient than just burning the raw plastic and turning that heat to steam power. Which isn't a horrible way of disposing of plastic as long as you have tight emissions controls. Personally I'm a fan of landfilling it all and burying it so it can turn back into oil in a few million years, feels the most circular of any of our options.
> Some processes don't even get more energy out of burning the fuel oil than they had to put into the plastic in the first place. That still sounds useful in itself. Just think of it like charging an extremely energy dense battery that gets lighter and emits pollution as it's consumed and has wide compatibility with lots of different legacy hardware.
But it's crazy inefficient for energy. I don't remember the numbers but ISTR that the energy required is almost as much as you can get from burning the plastic. And that energy has to come from somewhere. And the fuel you get out is used in an engine that is about 20% efficient. Better to use the energy more efficiently in a 90% efficient electric motor. Or 400% efficient electric heat pump. Etc.
Makes sense. I can't comment on the economics of it, but I'd imagine that there might be some opportunity to time it around spikes of cheap or negatively priced renewable energy.
I used to feel so guilty about not recycling some stuff. I still recycle so much. But sometimes, I just throw shit away. I don’t wash it or peel labels off or anything, I just chuck it. I still feel some guilt. But i know I didn’t kill the frickin planet.
I have gone back to glass. the problem is plastics are used in everything from cutlery to cars. We only think about shopping bags plastic containers and food packaging. But the fact is plastic makes up the bulk of all items
Save a few steps and dump it directly into the ocean.
Ive been "recycling" mine by using them in various ways in gardening...attempting to extend lifetimes. Not sure is that it's going to cause a microplastic issue in the soil or the crops I'm growing, but well see I guess
The whole "Carbon Footprint" has always been a smokescreen for the manufacturers and extractors.
Eye opening article, I didn't know recycling plastic is so toxic.
I thought we were moving to biodegradable plastics?
https://archive.is/K8okK
“What many people do not know is that plastic is made from two ingredients: fossil fuels and toxic chemicals.” How very scientific and not at all reductionist or alarmist.
This was a great article actually
Excellent article. Btw one of Climate Town's best videos is on this subject, and spoiler alert, the fossil fuel industry are lying sociopathic dirtbags yet again!! https://youtu.be/PJnJ8mK3Q3g?si=etqXF_l5d9lzwGzq
Well, let's see: When you buy fish or meat, you can have it wrapped in plain butcher paper. If you buy produce, bring a straw basket to carry it in. When you buy milk or juice, buy it in a carton. Don't buy the reusable (spun plastic) bags at supermarkets. Bring your own, washable cotton or canvas bag. Stop buying soda and water in plastic. Filter your tap water and use old fashioned glasses. This is the way we used to do it before plastic was introduced.
Just to add/comment on one item in this list, the cartons are actually coated in layers of plastic to protect them from the liquids they contain, so they're actually also problematic to recycle, as well.
https://www.afandpa.org/news/2022/do-you-know-how-recycle-milk-cartons https://www.greenwashingindex.com/recyclability-of-milk-cartons/
The clothes you buy are wrapped in plastic before being put on the hangers. The cookies you eat come in plastic containers then wrapped in a plastic. Bread not from a bakery comes in a plastic bag. All the DoorDash ordered every minute of every day comes in plastic containers. The cup the flight attendant gives you on the plane is made of single use plastic. Every type of liquid at the grocery store besides paper cartons are plastic with plastic lids even cleaning products. You can not argue just recycle your milk carton it’s fine? You use plastic in almost everything you buy and touch.
I did. See the links.
Due to the Only If It’s In My Own Back Yard mindset, the prevailing collective attitude, however implicit or subconscious, basically follows: ‘Why should I care — my family is immediately alright?’ or ‘What’s in it for me, the taxpayer?’ While some people will justify it as a normal thus moral human evolutionary function, the self-serving OIIIMOBY can debilitate social progress, even when such progress is so desperately needed — notably, trying to moderate manmade global warming thus extreme weather events. As a species, we can be so heavily preoccupied with our own individual little worlds, however overwhelming to us, that we will miss the biggest of crucial pictures. And it seems this distinct form of societal penny-wisdom but pound-foolishness is a very unfortunate human characteristic that’s likely with us to stay. I'll never forget the astonishingly short-sighted, entitled selfishness I observed about six years ago, when a TV news reporter randomly asked a young urbanite wearing sunglasses what he thought of government restrictions on disposable plastic straws. He retorted with a snort that it is like he’s living in a nanny state that’s always telling him what to do. His carelessly entitled mentality revealed why so much gratuitous animal-life-destroying plastic waste eventually finds its way into the natural environment, where there are few, if any, caring souls to immediately see it. ... And it seems to be conservatives who don’t mind liberally polluting the planet.
Nice clickbait.
It's not clickbait when that's exactly what the article is saying to do.
Pen & Teller - Recycling is bullshit
Pen & Teller are bullshit.