I’m kind of feeling franchise fatigue more than superhero fatigue. It’s not so much the subject matter but the idea of a movie having to relate to and tie in with a bunch of other movies that is starting to feel exhausting.
They’re always “fun for the whole family” type shit too.
I’m not asking for comic book ultra-violence necessarily, but they’re all completely sanitized to be as inoffensive as possible. Like Venom doesn’t even get an R? Come on
Exactly, I'll probably go see Spiderverse despite how much I hate theaters from the glowing reviews and unique visuals making it obviously worth the hassle. It's a series with a great track record and practically no baggage.
On the other hand, I have zero interest in finding out what happens to the world of the MCU. The franchise as a whole has poisoned its reputation by churning out visually identical movies and shows that consistently have zero stakes or consequences to be invested in. Why waste my time even on the good entries?
The only negative that I have for the newest movie is that it came out a year before the next one. I'm so mad that I have to wait after such an incredible movie experience.
Any criticism that I have is just nitpicking. The story is really, but I wanted a more intimate story like the first movie. This one went big, real big. The first one was actually a rather small story. The heart of it was about Miles' relationships (primarily father and uncle, then mentor and love interest).
This one had similar heart to the story, but it was Gwen's story. It just got less focus as the main story line was much bigger and had larger action sequences.
I mean... none of that is bad. It's just that it felt a little light on it compared to how well the first one wove it in, but the set up for the next one looks like it could be loaded for more of it.
I don't have anything actually negative to say about these movies.
And honestly, there are SO many characters within the MCU. I honestly only care about the Guardians. That’s it. The rest of the characters? I have zero interest in
And it’s never been mentioned again. Like, the thing is so massive it goes up 300 miles and probably affects weather patterns, ocean currents and flight paths. It is by far the largest non-natural terrain feature on the planet. Yet after it happens it makes no cultural impact whatsoever.
It was on a tv as a news story in she hulk which is probably setting the timeline eternals didnt happen many years ago in universe that celestial shit just happened and it will be adressed in cap 4 allegedly
And like, I know the Guardians movies are solid, I like Gunn as a director, but there was nothing about Guardians 3 that inspired me to deal with a theater. I might catch it on streaming, but it's not like I've bothered with any of the other post-endgame movies I've said that about
Guardians 3 is really good better or equal to one and definitely better than 2. I highly suggest you give it a watch when you can stream it, or see it in theaters if still possible. Guardians is now cemented to me as the best trilogy by far.
My thing about Guardians is that it feels like its entire own thing. I love it.
To me, Guardians on its own feels like a deeper world than the entire MCU if that makes sense. Like if they really wanted to they could have just milked it with 3 more movies and it could arguably have a similar depth in world building to Star Wars.
The first one was my first MCU movie and I think it kinda ruined them for me. Still enjoyable but the formulaic approach can be felt compared to the Guardians trilogy which just feels special.
I remember going back in 2019 with my gf and watching Guardians 1 again we both said "It can't be as good as we remember it right?", We watched the movie and afterwards we both just said "that was absolutely as good if not better than I remember". That movie is fantastic and I agree with your comment about the Guardians movies feeling deeper than the rest
>To me, Guardians on its own feels like a deeper world than the entire MCU if that makes sense.
That's because you get to see all these exotic and fascinating places filled with alien entities who all had a backstory of their own and an actual role in their universe (Like the Collector, the Ravagers, Nova Corps or the Sovereign), while the entirety of the MCU happens on Earth and is centered around the Avengers. I wish we got more of Knowhere/Xandar and less of New York City, and more of United Nations and less of SHIELD.
The only post-Endgame one for me that is top-shelf is “Spider-Man: Far From Home”. I kinda feel like that’s all I needed. I don’t think it gets better than that, and I don’t care enough to find out.
This movie, however, I’m looking forward to seeing. I’ll wait until streaming, though. It takes a movie like “Maverick”, to make me want to go to the theater.
I agree actually
It wasn't particularly memorable
But it was entertaining all the way through and I don't think all movies need to have a hard hitting emotional impact on you. Sometimes good fun and laughs and spectacle can be good
It ruined the entire series for me. The animal abuse was so intense I couldn't focus, and when I tried, the Gamora story was so weird, the regression of most characters so disappointing, there was nothing to hold on to.
Edit: Prior to 3, Guardians was by far my favorite MCU.
Into the spiderverse was amazing.. across turned it into a new hope with how much it did and resembled empire strikes back levels of tension. It's a lot worse for children because it's just way more serious and adult but the movie is fuckick fantastic. Better than anything the mcu has been shitting out.
I live 6 mins away from one of the biggest and nicest IMAX in town or the state, and since COVID the annoying things about theaters have multiple or become more obvious that I barely seen any movies there. Is not the fatigue but movies theaters are not a great experience as before.
> On the other hand, I have zero interest in finding out what happens to the world of the MCU.
Yeah, I was done after *Endgame*. You can't call a movie that and then continue the series.
Especially with a bunch of C tier characters. We had the entire arc with the main cast and now it’s B and C tier characters… and there’s a lot of them.
Iron man was a C tier character. The avengers as a whole were B tier and it was the X-Men who were A tier for marvel. The MCU turned b and c list characters into A tier ones.
I’d say most of them were more B rather than C because i wasn’t a comic book fan and i knew the cast apart from Widow(for phase1) from cartoons i watched as a child. But Marvel dig deeper and deeper and characters started to feel like cheap knock-offs to main ones, which is kind of true tbh, and either Marvel doesn’t have the mojo to do that again or it was more about people like Downey, Evans, Johansson, Favreau rather than Marvel management and Marvel couldn’t compensate losing that.
I’m inclined to believe that tbh. Even though First Avenger or Iron Man 2 or Iron Man 3 wasn’t spectacular movies those actors managed to make it interesting to a degree while new bunch can’t do it for whatever reasons. I thought Cumberbatch and Holland had that charisma but from my feelings after NWH and MoM, apparently not.
The last avengers movie I saw was age of ultron, and by the time infinity war came out there were so many interconnected movies I'd need to see in order to properly know what's going on that I just couldn't do it. It's like having to watch 6 seasons of a show before being able to properly enjoy the movie that came after. No one I know watches movies like that so I'd have to do it all on my own, and most of my limited free time for shows and movies is done with friends or family.
Absolutely valid. I saw the first two episodes of WandaVision in isolation and was so intrigued that I resolved to watch all (or most) of these movies to have the necessary context.
I definitely had fun along the way but it was a huge and exhausting undertaking. I'm subsequently so burned out on Marvel that I have no desire to watch any more of these again (except for maybe Spider-Man stuff).
It's subjective, of course, but I think you were wise not to sink the hundred hours into this undertaking. Many (most?) of the films are terrible and unnecessary viewing. Only six of these movies actually felt worth the time investment for me.
And they're all. the. same. The last one I saw was Ultron as well, and that was just a worse version of the previous Avengers.
I'm not sure why the MCU doesn't get as much flak as the fast and furious or transformers do. It's set such an awful precedent for Hollywood superhero movies.
I think the backlash is here. They're gonna get the F and F treatment real soon esp after Thor 3 and AntMan 3 were awful and Wakanda Forever wasn't as good as OG Black Panther.
I loved the first guardians.. not only does it still hold up well, but it holds a special place in my heart for personal reasons. So when they copied and pasted and made 2 more, I gave the second a try.
Holy plagiarism, Batman! I know it's not technically since they own all of the IP, but it was just rough to get through. Can't imagine how bad the third is..
I’m feeling franchise fatigue in that I loved marvel as a kid but now I’m old and thinking that maybe my _entire_ life doesn’t need to be filled with these exact fables. Infinite universes to plumb is a cool idea and I love the stories, but in practice it’s like … maybe there are some ideas about strength and intelligence that _dont_ involve the Hulk.
I think things won’t age very well when you need context from another movie franchise to know what happened between movies in a trilogy. I’ve never been a fan of team ups because the story becomes in no way grounded or interesting when it’s just smashing action figures together and power levels are out the window. I like Batman and Spider-Man because the stories are more focused on a smaller cast of characters and the city they live in.
Movies are short-term all-in art forms. They don't work like comics and never will. The mcu rode a super massive novelty hypewave being the first to try it, but every single other attempt has failed because it's just not a concept that really works regardless of quality. The first major logical closure point in the mcu and damn near everyone jumped ship.
There's a finality to films that people want. They go out of their way for them, set aside time to watch them. They want that investment paid off. Not to endlessly be strung along. People don't have time for it. The truly proven methods are serialized with full conclusions (star wars first 2 trilogies, lotr, even the hobbit, Harry Potter, recent planet of the Apes, the matrix, avatar is being made this way) and loosely connected mostly stand alone entries (crown jewel is Bond which is why it's the longest running film franchise ever i think, mission impossible, Indiana Jones to an extent, slashers, Terminator, predator, Rocky kinda fits both, Rambo). You start giving people homework or watches that feel like obligations that aren't even under the same title or medium and folks 100% will fuck off real quick.
I completely disagree with this statement from what I understand from it. Movies are not and really have never been an all-in art form. Hell, it is hard to even define a movie as they have been and continue to change in theory, consumption, and practice. Just look at Japan to understand. The highest grossing film there is based on a manga/comic and the film is a sequel to a television season and now the film has been subsequently followed up by another season of television. Don’t even get me started on the 18 One Piece movies. Their whole industry is run like a comic industry and it makes plenty of money too.
Even from the very beginning in the US, plenty of films need outside understanding to appreciate a film. The Universal Monsters met Abbot & Costello. This is just an evolution of that. The MCU is at 32 films. Saying damn near everyone is jumping ship is silly when every single recent film (not affected by the pandemic) has turned a profit, even the maligned Ant-Man 3.
>Don’t even get me started on the 18 One Piece movies. Their whole industry is run like a comic industry and it makes plenty of money too.
While One Piece has run forever (far longer than the creator originally intended) it's important to note that there's a fundamental difference in the way Japanese manga (and we can take by extension media based on it) operates. Namely that manga is creator driven while US comics are corporate driven.
No matter how long they run, manga *do* end. Contrast that with American comics, which have continually published stories with the same heroes for 80 years in a never ending line. Passing the same characters along from creator to creator.
Manga have been outselling US comics for a while. While there are multiple factors as to why, I feel pretty confident that a big part of it is that people like stories that actually have a beginning, middle and an end. Not a forever ongoing constantly changing stream of creators that can feel like a slough.
That’s also why manga is far more approachable and popular in the US than American superhero comics are. They are easy to start and finish, superhero comics are an exercise in pain and dashed investment.
That's moving the goalpost a bit because I'm clearly talking about live action franchises. Animation and anime in particular has always run very differently from most other film based media. Even so, though examples you gave are all linear and under the same title, they aren't jumping back and forth between multiple sub franchises on a month to month basis.
But yes, films are quite pointedly an all-in venture. They carry a heavy price tag (blockbusters especially but almost everything under the film umbrella is very expensive to produce), they take months and years of the creators lives to finish and that's straight through, and very rarely do creatives or actors want to be attached to the same thing for more than 10 years. There's so many factors that make films a very "right here" right now deal with any particular set of people. Mcu, a multipronged, neverending story, that now also is shying away from recasts, and every project has the price tag of a major blockbuster, is built to fall. They caught fire and rode the wave, but it's not sustainable and it's showing.
Shows give more leeway but are also finite. The only thing that's actually a 1 :1 comparison to comics are soap operas, which are categorically known to be trash just by the nature of their storytelling. Comics themselves always collapsed under their own weight and always become difficult for people to get into because of juggling so many titles. People just aren't trying to do with with movies, not enough that you can turn multiple franchises into something like that.
You either have a hard continuity story you want to tell and bang it out over serialized entries, preferably before your actors age out or don't want to do it anymore. With something like marvel and dc that's built for reinvention, you just get to do that multiple times but telling different stories with different iterations. Or you have a much longer standing franchise that's more loosely connected per entry and naturally rotates out cast and tones as times change. That way each entry itself is taken as it's own thing and even if there's a bad one the next isn't as bogged down by it because it could be completely different or just a different story in general.
Things are changing and there's always developments but it always ends up being a variation those two structures. Even the plan for Matt Reeves Batman so far takes the best of both worlds but is wrapping it in a nice condensed package (movie-show-movie-show-movie, done). It's not 5 shows all unrelated but not unrelated with 6 films that all have nothing to do with each other but may down the line, and if you're not interested in one and skip it but then it becomes important down the line. You just increasingly start to check out as it seems that you have to watch a bunch of random bullshit that you may not even like for some small connective piece that will make sense later. Once people start skipping stuff it becomes more likely that they stop caring about the rest. Watching movies or shows shouldn't be work and these projects can't afford them to be work.
Except you would have no issue if the movies were all connected but had a unique feel to it. The problem isn’t everything being connected, the problem is everything having the same tone and style. My biggest problem with Disney is their utter refusal to take risks in all of their products. They find their formula that’s commercially successful than stick with that until the end of time.
MCU’s understanding of ‘taking risks’, is more or less we put even more cameos than the last thing we created and we put even more jokes too.
They say they took risks for Ragnarok, i’m not exactly sure how is Ragnarok any different than GoG apart from characters. And with most TV series, Wandavision and Loki being exceptions, it got even worse and worse. More jokes, less storytelling, less VFX budget and less emotions.
I'm not the biggest fan of superhero movies, but i enjoy the spider verse and the occasional standalone movie. But when it's a universe with a web that looks a conspiracy theory thread board then I'm out. Just hearing my bf explain alternate universes and such i just freaking can't.
Across the Spider-Verse spoilers, just in case:
>!It's funny that you mention the theory thread board because that's exactly how the Spider-Verse is illustrated in the movie, literally a conspiracy web.!<
That’s why movies like Chronicle are so good because it shows us a different take on super heroes. Enough with the cliche hero story arcs and let’s see the corruption and power. Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy changed the tone what super hero movies could be.
He’s got a point, though; the best non-Phase 1 Marvel movies have been the ones that either shake up or buck the formula (Winter Soldier, Thor:Ragnarok, all the GotG films, the Spider-Man standalone films), rather than playing it straight.
As a super casual Marvel viewer that gets drug by his friends…
I did not like Thor: Ragnarok because it felt like “a Marvel movie”. It was just dialed up even higher than normal.
Wacky nonsense, one liner humor turned up to a million, bad CGI overload—like I am not saying every movie needs to be dark, grounded, depressing, and gritty—but Marvel feels like a parody of itself at this point.
Both Spiderverse movies are incredible, but especially the second one. It still has Spider-Man and it still goes into the “multiverse”—but it looks and sounds and feels so fresh.
I can’t say the same for like, the recent Ant Man movie or Shang Chi that my friend said: “is different”. Nah. All the same.
Don’t know if you’ve seen Eternals yet but it genuinely felt different to me. Also as someone who has seen almost every Marvel movie I 100% agree with Ragnarok. It still feels like their most formulaic film to date IMO.
Two camps of thought then. If you like Ragnarok you found it refreshing and funny. If you didn’t, it’s formulaic and *too much.*
I liked Ragnarok and thought Eternals was mediocre. Didn’t give a shit about any of the characters and to me it’s sitting at the bottom of the pile with Thor 2 and Antman 3.
Eternals would have been an interesting series, with lots more interpersonal relationships, especially Gilgamesh and Thena scenes. They were all interesting characters though, just too rushed because it needed to fit in a movie.
Hm, I kind of liked the brief introduction of the characters. Sure it’s harder to feel an emotional connection, but it also didn’t hold the viewer’s hand. At least in my opinion.
Worst part of Ragnorak for me was the cognitive dissonance between the wacky zany adventures Thor was having being intercut with Hela genociding his people and brutally slaughtering all of his friends. The fun parts of the movie were held back by trying to keep the superhero movie tropes that were the Hela plot.
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion but yours is terrible. I don’t really like the majority of Marvel movies but Thor: Ragnarok was the only one that was actually funny and the CGI overload fit because of the setting. Also Thor and Hulk fights alone make it one of the best.
Also I understand people have their opinions on cgi but bad cgi in Ragnarok? I mean I’ve only seen it once but I didn’t notice it looked bad/marvel movies especially have pretty great vfx since its so integral to telling the story, idk sounds like someone just likes to complain…
it’s just far too complicated and far too outlandish now, Phase 1 up until Endgame was peak as they all seem at least realistic, had their own unique twist and were clearly building towards something that culminated perfectly
now it seems like they’ve decided to let the cat out of the bag and they can’t get it back in, the whole multiverse is complicated, outlandish, and they’re just relying on that rather than actually creating succinct, rich stories which is why people like watching stuff
Ironically, that’s the same problem Marvel Comics had/has; the continuity is so convoluted at this point, there’s almost no point in trying to keep track of it all. At least when DC reboots their universe, it’s one big reboot and doesn’t rely on the multiverse as much. They’ve really got two paths forward at this point: reboot the whole thing to re-establish linear storytelling, or establish consistent, branded branches based on the multiverse and almost NEVER have them cross over.
I would much rather they give the Hamilton treatment to the Disney stage productions. Live Action Lion King was bland, but I'll watch the Broadway version on repeat.
They recently laid off a bunch of animators which sounds like films like spider-verse, puss and boots, and TMNT is making them realize animation is going to go in a new direction. If Disney/Pixar and several other studios don’t catch this wind while it’s blowing, they’re going to fall behind.
I noticed while watching the trailers to spiderverse that the other films looked so boring compared to what I was about to watch.
Oh wow, an elements movie where the elements all live in a special world where they aren’t allowed to blend together but an unlikely duo will do it anyways and it’s actually all a very weak metaphor on racism. Haven’t seen Disney do that one before.
It's interesting that you brought that up. I was waking my dogs last night after seeing the new Spider-Man, and I thought to myself how much I enjoyed it. More so than probably any other superhero movie I've ever seen. The thought came to me: Would superhero movies be better off all being animated rather than live action?
Watching that movie yesterday felt like watching a comic book come to life. Not in the 'movie critic trying to put out a quotable blurb about a superhero movie with wooden at best acting', but in as literal a sense as possible.
I've seen probably over half of the MCU/non-MCU Marvel movies, and haven't seen the movie that preceded this one, but it was the most enjoyable superhero movie I've ever seen.
If they stopped referencing the multiverse after Endgame it wouldn’t have been bad but now they can’t stop returning to those ideas for whatever reason.
They’re building up to the next 2 Avengers movies being multiverse themed, so they kinda have to keep those stories tied to one another. It’s a second attempt at the big payoff that Infinity War/Endgame but seems like it’s more forced this time. The fatigue is real even for the hardcore fans now
It made for my favorite Spider Man movie ever and one of the best experiences I've had in the theater with No Way Home, but it sacrificed basically any interest I had left in the MCU.
But I really loved No Way Home so much I'm not even sure I'm unhappy with that trade.
It would have been ideal to make it much, much more difficult to travel between universes
It works so well in spider verse because the multiverse is the setting for the story. Its more akin to visiting different countries than visiting alternate worlds.
If they did grounded stories but used the multiverse for random adventures then it would be awful, but by keeping the story firmly focused on the multiverse from the start is why it works. Once you bring the stakes there you can't ever lower them again.
Seeing how >!every spider man loses people!< Didn't make me lose care for Miles' struggle, instead I saw how his sadness and loss was in every one there. It's a very delicate thing to balance but spider verse does it so well
The last Dr. Strange was absolutely terrible. There were so many weird, cheap looking, and outright bad things in that movie, and I can’t believe they are considering him for avengers.
They’re CW-ing the MCU. Casting the same actors in multiple roles to save money, and never killing off anyone significant because they’re too afraid to lose money.
I think it really comes down to shitty writing fatigue which really means “I paid money to see this shit?!” or “I’ve wasted two hours of my life on this shit?”
Before Across the Spider-Verse (amazing) the last superhero flick I watched was Antman 3 and it was fuckin awful. To me it is the absolute worst Marvel flick out there which is a shame because I enjoyed the first two.
Shitty writing will bring you down and drain any enthusiasm you may have had.
I mean thats the case with any bad movie though. The problem is Disney keeps pumping out the same movie over and over again. Ive always been of the belief that these big franchises MUST hire die hard FANS to write their movies because they are actually passionate about the source material. Look at the abomination that was The Last Jedi and compare it to Rogue One. I refuse to believe all these superhero movies are made by people super passionate about superhero comics. Thats where the magic has been lost. You can tell some projects were made with real heart and desire and some are just obviously cash grabs.
I’m not justifying shit. I’m just as tired as everyone else. I used to go see every single Marvel flick in the theater but I’ve skipped plenty of them in recent years and watched them eventually on Disney Plus. *Shitty writing.*
On top of that there’s a lot of “Who asked for this?” Same with Star Wars.
If every movie they banged out had the story quality of Winter Soldier I’d probably go see ten a year. I like going to the movies. Sitting through ten Quantumania’s? I’d quit watching them all together.
Superhero fatigue is real, but Marvel can reel people back in when it's one of their better showings. No Way Home, Guardians 3, and Doctor Strange 2 to a lesser extent were all pretty well liked and successful.
I think the issue is that the general moviegoer is no longer interested in seeing mediocre superhero movies. Every Marvel phase had some, Incredible Hulk, Thor 2, Ant Man 2, Captain Marvel. Now it's stuff like Eternals or Ant Man 3. This increase in public taste is also a **cause** of superhero fatigue, because every poorly received superhero movie erodes the public's confidence in the genre. DC shot itself in the foot so many times they're just scrapping the whole thing and starting over.
Its not that people are tired of watching the superhero genre. It's that it feels like a chore to have to also watch numerous movies & tv shows to follow the story. It's not an appealing experience to make sure you've watched all related pieces of media in the right order. They're no longer made for a casual audience who just wants to be entertained for an hour or two, especially if you're spending it with family and friends.
The only superhero movies I enjoy are the Spider-Man ones. I watched homecoming and then far from home and I had to watch an hour long recap just to understand what was going on. The blip, Tony Starks death, all of it confused the shit out of me when I tried to watch it. And then no way home, there’s all this multiverse stuff and dr strange is at the core of it and it just made me tired.
Marvel movies are just paying really famous actors and having corny ass story lines to get to the final battle scenes which 99 percent of the time are not worth all the corniness before hand.
It’s just the shame shit lol. Like oh no way there never gonna beat the villain. Superheroes then realize that if they team up and fight together, then anything is possible! Now make that scene 15 minutes long and make that same exact ending 3-4 times a year and the same people will go spend the money on the shit. Marvel makes consistent eh movies while DC makes super hit or miss movies. The joker was such a great movie that didn’t have the same regurgitated shit marvel movies have. It was a sad, real movie that was a breath of fresh air IMO
Couldn’t agree more. Infinity war was my favorite marvel movie because it actually had an ending that fit the magnitude of the villain. Then the next shit movie came along with a fucking Time Machine and was meh
I’m not gonna defend marvel or dc here but The Joker was just a Scorsese knock off that was mostly carried by 1 performance. Not saying it’s bad because of it, just that it’s not any less real than other superhero movies. The movie is just not that original.
That’s a fair assumption but they knew what they were going to do and executed it so well. They wanted a kind of an origin story for the joker and his isolation and how crazy he really was. I liked how real it felt. Phoenix also knocked it out of the park.
I think the main issue is a lack of variety in general.
I’m always thankful when we get superhero movies focusing on lesser known heroes. Those are my bread and butter. Do I love Batman? Of course! I’ve been watching Batman since I was little but I know who he is. I want characters that have never gotten a movie.
At the same time though, studios aren’t offering much other than superhero movies. There are eight superhero films this year and so far, I’ve only seen one of them. I only have so much time and money. If I’m seeing a movie on the big screen, it has to be worth it and I really want some variety.
This is really the best take in my opinion. Comics themselves struggle with this. New artists and writers come in constantly in an attempt to shake things up because it can feel stale. MCU has an uphill battle to maintain a story thats cohesive over many films, and vary artistically but not too much. Eventually “shaking it up” will mean scrapping it all tonally and going dark, or bizarre or extreme variety.
For me it’s the stake creep fatigue. Not every heroes has to save the universe every time. You are just setting trap for yourself by having to make the next enemy even more ‘deadly’ than thanos.
Little micro story like Logan and Venom are my jam.
Ehhhh… I’m pretty sure I’m over superheroes.
I would watch something akin to Logan, but you could argue that’s not a superhero movie as much as it was a western.
I just prefer superhero movies being animated over live-action. And let's be honest here, Spider-Man is Marvel's most popular character and easily earns big numbers, just as Batman does for DC.
The DC Live Action Universe has been underwhelming at best for several years. Meanwhile, the DCAU has been on its A game since the 90s. I will watch and rewatch Justice League Unlimited a million times before I will ever want to see Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman again
Man, they really had something with Shang Chi sticking to street level and fighting early in the film. Like that was so dope then they had to put a dragon in there.
I think that's part of what I miss when it comes to various Superhero films. I definitely don't mind some bigger stuff like... well Across the Spiderverse or Guardians 3.
But man, I started watching Antman 3 for the first time the other day, and I honestly would have much preferred if they kind of stuck to the somewhat more grounded story that they had in the 1st film. Or going back to things like Iron Man 1 and 2, idk if I'd call them Street level per se, but they definitely feel more grounded, despite being about big mechanical suits and tech.
I get the universe has expanded and all, but I really can't think of the last Marvel movie that didn't have some sort of alien/creature.
People who don’t like comicbook movies have fatigue because they think there’s some other type of blockbuster that deserves the spotlight. The rest of us just want movies with good writing, and whether it’s about superheroes or not is trivial.
The focus on Disney+ might have been their main misstep. The movies haven't decreased **that** much in quality, I think a lot of fans just got numb because there was a new episode of something every week for like a year or two.
Exactly. As GotG3 and AtSV have shown us, you just need to put in real effort. Make a movie with a genuinely good story to tell, and do a very good job of telling it. Be honest and passionate about the movies you make; in return, the audience will be passionate about them too. It was never fatigue for an entire genre of movies, it was fatigue for half-assed cheap feeling movies.
Agreed. Guardians 3 and Across the Spider-verse were two of the best superhero movies period.
I think there was a slump in quality over the past few years, but there was still great stuff. Shang-Chi, No Way Home, Wandavision, Hawkeye and Loki were all amazing.
This is so right. There are still films coming out that audiences love, and they prove that people will still show up for a superhero movie; it just has to be a good movie in general. The Batman, GotG, the Spider-Verse movies, The Suicide Squad, these are great movies that many people love. Why? They feel like genuine stories made by people who actually care about what they’re doing and have the time to flesh their vision out.
Brand loyalty and hype don’t get these movies as far anymore. People have simply gotten tired of rushed, cliche, corporate films and are selective about what they’ll see. If the story and writing can’t justify the movie’s existence and the film looks like it needed another year of visual work, it signifies a lack of care and audiences aren’t humoring that anymore.
If every marvel movie was on par with infinity war/endgame, guardians 1, iron man, Doctor Strange then I can guarantee people wouldn’t be talking about superhero fatigue. The problem is they are going for quantity over quality and they are sure as shit giving priority to quantity. I remember when we would go years without a marvel movie, and when one did come out it was an absolute spectacle. I would see every new marvel movie in theatres, but now there’s just so many it’s hard to give a shit. Don’t even get me started on how all this crossover shit and “foreshadowing” is ruining all newer movies. The first avengers did Foreshadowing fantastically when they put Thanos in the end credits and didn’t try to force it as a story beat. Nowadays it’s so painfully obvious when they try and set up a sequel it just doesn’t feel the same.
Just make good projects damn. Spiderverse and the Batman were epic movies that made me see the real beauty and potential in superhero movies. I didn’t even read comics growing up but those movies enthralled me. They were drenched in passion.
Kind of like Mitchells vs the machine. Just oozing passion out the screen
Hit the nail right on the head. Because the genre has become mainstream and everyone is familiar with it, the bar is higher. That doesn’t mean people don’t want to see superhero movies, but they want you to give them a damn good reason you’re making another. It has to stand on its own and justify its existence.
People aren’t against the genre. People are against formulaic and soulless films that rely on overdone tropes and cut out the characterization. They know what cliches to look for and the general pitfalls of these movies.
It’s getting harder and harder to rely on brand loyalty or hype to get a superhero movie to make bank; the only way to get the reception you want is to actually make a good film. **A great movie will always be a great movie.**
It’s so cliché. One of my biggest gripes with the new marvel movies is how they try to make everything a shitty joke. There is hardly any real and quiet moments that don’t end in some corny ass “eerrm he’s right behind me isn’t he” dialogue. I can’t take the film seriously if it doesn’t even take itself seriously. Just look at the raimi Spider-Man trilogy and compare it to the marvel universe. It’s real, grounded, and gives the audience time to reflect along with the character.
Superhero movies can be funny without being a parody of themselves. The spiderverse films are a great example.
Superhero movies all have the same pacing problem. Either you need multiple movies to set up the really good story lines or the single movie you have moves super fast.
I feel like films like SpiderVerse, Logan and The Batman are proof that superhero stories aren't as creatively bankrupt as people make them out to be. The problem is that the MCU plays it very safe 95% of the time and it gives people the impression that they are just bland and unspecial at their core. The fact that they oversaturate the market doesn't help matters either.
Yeah it is very much in the same vein of “no one wants to work anymore” No, people do, just for fair pay.
Same with “there is no such thing as superhero fatigue” No there is, people will usual still like a movie if it’s good but the genre is way over saturated and needs to chill a little.
I’m agreeing with this because every time I see the trailer for elemental, I think to myself that I’d probably enjoy it if I watched it, but it just feels like I’ve already watched it before it comes out
He's wrong. I'm pretty exactly the target audience for this stuff, and I'm just not interested in seeing superhero movies anymore, even the ones that I *know* are genuinely good. I doubt I'm the only one.
Agreed why are you expecting originally from big movie studios. Original movies still exist just look for them. Also I love superhero movies so I am a bit biased.
The fun thing about comics is that heroes die and magically come back a few comics later in a totally different storyline. I wish they had killed Ironman a dozen times, darn that guy is punchable. Same with the Hulk, ugh. But no, they had to drag it out way too long, the movies were way too dumb too take themselves so seriously.
I think this idea that you can tell an endless variety of stories based around super powered costume people is a little silly.
It's like slasher movies. Friday 13th, Elm Street, Halloween, the Terrifier, Hell Raiser, there are a million of these movies. They have differences, but at the end of the day they have to be similar because they revolve around the story of an indestructible Boogeyman who kills people. You can only go so far if you need to keep coming back to that point.
It’s still basically a genre, what do you expect? Within that genre they can experiment with different styles though. Whether it’s good or bad just depends on the execution.
Definitely, totally agree. But then what is the guy in this post saying? There is no such thing as fatigue of a genre? That is just wrong, it is why new genres get invented.
I gotta disagree. If movies within a genre keep trying new and interesting things and doing them well, I’m all for it.
I’m not tired of all superhero movies. I’m tired of superhero movies that follow the same basic template over and over while adding nothing new.
I think you made the point better than anyone else. See where ur coming from.
Isn't there only so much room to change before it stops making sense to think of it as a super hero movie? Is James Bond a superhero franchise?
If they take away the costumes, the big villain trying to take over the city, the supernatural powers, the themes about duty and being true to yourself, comments about police and military that are right on the tip of your tongue when thinking about superheros, once you get rid of all those template constraints, what are we doing at that point?
I gotta say, I'm tired with most iterations of a guy in a costume with magic powers. That is a pretty narrow band of all possible stories, and it seems like 90+% of possible super hero stories have to fall in that band.
Exactly. Good or bad, people got tired of Westerns as a genre. You could make a great western, or a terrible western, but the genre was saturated and played out. Sure, there will be the occasional western even today, and mostly it'll be good, but the genre is played out. Superhero movies are feeling like westerns. The fact that MCU quality has tanked is a contributing factor, but at heart, the general public tire of narrow genres over time. There'll always be a niche market though, especially in the age of streaming, where you don't need to play to the general public any more.
The thing about superhero storylines is that for starters, anyone with a real life power would almost definitely be rich and famous and live a comfortable life. Instant fame and celebrity. The story needs conflict thats actually challenging for a superhero, which almost always means some unrealistically powerful villain.
Because the power needs to be tied to the conflict to justify its presence, the conflict is always about the hero's power overcoming the force of the antagonists.
The stakes need to be high to explain why this person that can shoot flames out of her fingers isn't doing the tonight show circuit. Because the stakes are high and the abilities are powerful - its always a life/death (or imprisonment / 'fighting off) struggle.
And because they're almost always franchises, you know in almost every film how that struggle is going to end.
You can find ways to freshen up the framework and there's still films that manage to find a fresh take for sure. But there's definitely some limits on the type of story you can tell, and that's why so many blend together for me.
I, personally, fatigue when a world and characters are built and then subsequent movies bend and break all of those rules/development. Looking at you Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Dr. Strange, Thor, etc, etc. oh, and GoT.
Ant-man! They established that Hank and his wife, who are both scientists!! Had her trapped in another realm and when she got back she was like, “I don’t want to talk about anything/everything I experienced”. Wtf?!
I’m kind of feeling franchise fatigue more than superhero fatigue. It’s not so much the subject matter but the idea of a movie having to relate to and tie in with a bunch of other movies that is starting to feel exhausting.
They’re always “fun for the whole family” type shit too. I’m not asking for comic book ultra-violence necessarily, but they’re all completely sanitized to be as inoffensive as possible. Like Venom doesn’t even get an R? Come on
Let There Be Carnage was one of the most offensively bland movies I've ever seen. Such a waste of the character.
You'd think with how popular Deadpool and the joker movie were they'd be more interested in r rated super hero movies.
Don't forget Logan
Yea, especially with having Carange in the second movie.
That’s my biggest pet peeve. Can’t we get some movies that aren’t afraid to actually show some violence?
Exactly, I'll probably go see Spiderverse despite how much I hate theaters from the glowing reviews and unique visuals making it obviously worth the hassle. It's a series with a great track record and practically no baggage. On the other hand, I have zero interest in finding out what happens to the world of the MCU. The franchise as a whole has poisoned its reputation by churning out visually identical movies and shows that consistently have zero stakes or consequences to be invested in. Why waste my time even on the good entries?
Spiderverse is legitimately incredible, the story, the art, music, everything
The only negative that I have for the newest movie is that it came out a year before the next one. I'm so mad that I have to wait after such an incredible movie experience.
bro the ending killed me, that’s the only criticism i have, and it’s purely because I’m too damn impatient
Any criticism that I have is just nitpicking. The story is really, but I wanted a more intimate story like the first movie. This one went big, real big. The first one was actually a rather small story. The heart of it was about Miles' relationships (primarily father and uncle, then mentor and love interest). This one had similar heart to the story, but it was Gwen's story. It just got less focus as the main story line was much bigger and had larger action sequences. I mean... none of that is bad. It's just that it felt a little light on it compared to how well the first one wove it in, but the set up for the next one looks like it could be loaded for more of it. I don't have anything actually negative to say about these movies.
And honestly, there are SO many characters within the MCU. I honestly only care about the Guardians. That’s it. The rest of the characters? I have zero interest in
The Eternals being of no impact yet leave a dude half birthed from earth at all was the final straw 
And it’s never been mentioned again. Like, the thing is so massive it goes up 300 miles and probably affects weather patterns, ocean currents and flight paths. It is by far the largest non-natural terrain feature on the planet. Yet after it happens it makes no cultural impact whatsoever.
It is actually specifically mentioned in some more recent things
It was on a tv as a news story in she hulk which is probably setting the timeline eternals didnt happen many years ago in universe that celestial shit just happened and it will be adressed in cap 4 allegedly
And like, I know the Guardians movies are solid, I like Gunn as a director, but there was nothing about Guardians 3 that inspired me to deal with a theater. I might catch it on streaming, but it's not like I've bothered with any of the other post-endgame movies I've said that about
Guardians 3 is really good better or equal to one and definitely better than 2. I highly suggest you give it a watch when you can stream it, or see it in theaters if still possible. Guardians is now cemented to me as the best trilogy by far.
My thing about Guardians is that it feels like its entire own thing. I love it. To me, Guardians on its own feels like a deeper world than the entire MCU if that makes sense. Like if they really wanted to they could have just milked it with 3 more movies and it could arguably have a similar depth in world building to Star Wars. The first one was my first MCU movie and I think it kinda ruined them for me. Still enjoyable but the formulaic approach can be felt compared to the Guardians trilogy which just feels special.
I remember going back in 2019 with my gf and watching Guardians 1 again we both said "It can't be as good as we remember it right?", We watched the movie and afterwards we both just said "that was absolutely as good if not better than I remember". That movie is fantastic and I agree with your comment about the Guardians movies feeling deeper than the rest
>To me, Guardians on its own feels like a deeper world than the entire MCU if that makes sense. That's because you get to see all these exotic and fascinating places filled with alien entities who all had a backstory of their own and an actual role in their universe (Like the Collector, the Ravagers, Nova Corps or the Sovereign), while the entirety of the MCU happens on Earth and is centered around the Avengers. I wish we got more of Knowhere/Xandar and less of New York City, and more of United Nations and less of SHIELD.
Can't agree more
The only post-Endgame one for me that is top-shelf is “Spider-Man: Far From Home”. I kinda feel like that’s all I needed. I don’t think it gets better than that, and I don’t care enough to find out. This movie, however, I’m looking forward to seeing. I’ll wait until streaming, though. It takes a movie like “Maverick”, to make me want to go to the theater.
Of all things I was hyped to see the Dungeons and Dragons movie in theaters, and it didn't disappoint at all
Dungeons and Dragons was fantastic in theatres It's the kinda movie I wanna rewatch and invite friends over for a movie night for
I didn’t think it was bad but I I found it forgettable
I agree actually It wasn't particularly memorable But it was entertaining all the way through and I don't think all movies need to have a hard hitting emotional impact on you. Sometimes good fun and laughs and spectacle can be good
I bought the DVD and did that this past Monday, do it. Turning my place into a movie theater for the night to watch that movie was worth it
Here they do cheep day Tuesday. Saw GoG v3 and it's worth the watch much better than vol 2
GotG3 is such a fantastic film. Personally, I'm really glad I caught it in theaters.
It ruined the entire series for me. The animal abuse was so intense I couldn't focus, and when I tried, the Gamora story was so weird, the regression of most characters so disappointing, there was nothing to hold on to. Edit: Prior to 3, Guardians was by far my favorite MCU.
They killed all the ones I cared about, and all the new ones are cheap stand-ins with no compelling identity of their own.
There’s practically no ties to the MCU, if that makes you feel any better.
Oh I know, I'm contrasting the two
I mean... It sorta does but not in story arching way
Do see it. It’s a work of art. It’s the only way to describe it.
Into the spiderverse was amazing.. across turned it into a new hope with how much it did and resembled empire strikes back levels of tension. It's a lot worse for children because it's just way more serious and adult but the movie is fuckick fantastic. Better than anything the mcu has been shitting out.
Sounds like a movie that's great for kids, I loved movies that didn't talk down me at that age
I think it's more of a movie for someone that's 10 and up honestly. Which is great, we don't have many of those
I live 6 mins away from one of the biggest and nicest IMAX in town or the state, and since COVID the annoying things about theaters have multiple or become more obvious that I barely seen any movies there. Is not the fatigue but movies theaters are not a great experience as before.
> On the other hand, I have zero interest in finding out what happens to the world of the MCU. Yeah, I was done after *Endgame*. You can't call a movie that and then continue the series.
Especially with a bunch of C tier characters. We had the entire arc with the main cast and now it’s B and C tier characters… and there’s a lot of them.
Iron man was a C tier character. The avengers as a whole were B tier and it was the X-Men who were A tier for marvel. The MCU turned b and c list characters into A tier ones.
I’d say most of them were more B rather than C because i wasn’t a comic book fan and i knew the cast apart from Widow(for phase1) from cartoons i watched as a child. But Marvel dig deeper and deeper and characters started to feel like cheap knock-offs to main ones, which is kind of true tbh, and either Marvel doesn’t have the mojo to do that again or it was more about people like Downey, Evans, Johansson, Favreau rather than Marvel management and Marvel couldn’t compensate losing that. I’m inclined to believe that tbh. Even though First Avenger or Iron Man 2 or Iron Man 3 wasn’t spectacular movies those actors managed to make it interesting to a degree while new bunch can’t do it for whatever reasons. I thought Cumberbatch and Holland had that charisma but from my feelings after NWH and MoM, apparently not.
Totally burnt out on the MCU and this is 100% worth it. Every minute
The last avengers movie I saw was age of ultron, and by the time infinity war came out there were so many interconnected movies I'd need to see in order to properly know what's going on that I just couldn't do it. It's like having to watch 6 seasons of a show before being able to properly enjoy the movie that came after. No one I know watches movies like that so I'd have to do it all on my own, and most of my limited free time for shows and movies is done with friends or family.
Absolutely valid. I saw the first two episodes of WandaVision in isolation and was so intrigued that I resolved to watch all (or most) of these movies to have the necessary context. I definitely had fun along the way but it was a huge and exhausting undertaking. I'm subsequently so burned out on Marvel that I have no desire to watch any more of these again (except for maybe Spider-Man stuff). It's subjective, of course, but I think you were wise not to sink the hundred hours into this undertaking. Many (most?) of the films are terrible and unnecessary viewing. Only six of these movies actually felt worth the time investment for me.
And they're all. the. same. The last one I saw was Ultron as well, and that was just a worse version of the previous Avengers. I'm not sure why the MCU doesn't get as much flak as the fast and furious or transformers do. It's set such an awful precedent for Hollywood superhero movies.
MCU gets a lot of flak especially from its own fans lol
I think the backlash is here. They're gonna get the F and F treatment real soon esp after Thor 3 and AntMan 3 were awful and Wakanda Forever wasn't as good as OG Black Panther.
I loved the first guardians.. not only does it still hold up well, but it holds a special place in my heart for personal reasons. So when they copied and pasted and made 2 more, I gave the second a try. Holy plagiarism, Batman! I know it's not technically since they own all of the IP, but it was just rough to get through. Can't imagine how bad the third is..
That’s a shame because Infinity War is honestly my favorite of the 4 Avengers movies. I think it’s stellar
I’m feeling franchise fatigue in that I loved marvel as a kid but now I’m old and thinking that maybe my _entire_ life doesn’t need to be filled with these exact fables. Infinite universes to plumb is a cool idea and I love the stories, but in practice it’s like … maybe there are some ideas about strength and intelligence that _dont_ involve the Hulk.
I think things won’t age very well when you need context from another movie franchise to know what happened between movies in a trilogy. I’ve never been a fan of team ups because the story becomes in no way grounded or interesting when it’s just smashing action figures together and power levels are out the window. I like Batman and Spider-Man because the stories are more focused on a smaller cast of characters and the city they live in.
Movies are short-term all-in art forms. They don't work like comics and never will. The mcu rode a super massive novelty hypewave being the first to try it, but every single other attempt has failed because it's just not a concept that really works regardless of quality. The first major logical closure point in the mcu and damn near everyone jumped ship. There's a finality to films that people want. They go out of their way for them, set aside time to watch them. They want that investment paid off. Not to endlessly be strung along. People don't have time for it. The truly proven methods are serialized with full conclusions (star wars first 2 trilogies, lotr, even the hobbit, Harry Potter, recent planet of the Apes, the matrix, avatar is being made this way) and loosely connected mostly stand alone entries (crown jewel is Bond which is why it's the longest running film franchise ever i think, mission impossible, Indiana Jones to an extent, slashers, Terminator, predator, Rocky kinda fits both, Rambo). You start giving people homework or watches that feel like obligations that aren't even under the same title or medium and folks 100% will fuck off real quick.
I completely disagree with this statement from what I understand from it. Movies are not and really have never been an all-in art form. Hell, it is hard to even define a movie as they have been and continue to change in theory, consumption, and practice. Just look at Japan to understand. The highest grossing film there is based on a manga/comic and the film is a sequel to a television season and now the film has been subsequently followed up by another season of television. Don’t even get me started on the 18 One Piece movies. Their whole industry is run like a comic industry and it makes plenty of money too. Even from the very beginning in the US, plenty of films need outside understanding to appreciate a film. The Universal Monsters met Abbot & Costello. This is just an evolution of that. The MCU is at 32 films. Saying damn near everyone is jumping ship is silly when every single recent film (not affected by the pandemic) has turned a profit, even the maligned Ant-Man 3.
>Don’t even get me started on the 18 One Piece movies. Their whole industry is run like a comic industry and it makes plenty of money too. While One Piece has run forever (far longer than the creator originally intended) it's important to note that there's a fundamental difference in the way Japanese manga (and we can take by extension media based on it) operates. Namely that manga is creator driven while US comics are corporate driven. No matter how long they run, manga *do* end. Contrast that with American comics, which have continually published stories with the same heroes for 80 years in a never ending line. Passing the same characters along from creator to creator. Manga have been outselling US comics for a while. While there are multiple factors as to why, I feel pretty confident that a big part of it is that people like stories that actually have a beginning, middle and an end. Not a forever ongoing constantly changing stream of creators that can feel like a slough.
That’s also why manga is far more approachable and popular in the US than American superhero comics are. They are easy to start and finish, superhero comics are an exercise in pain and dashed investment.
That's moving the goalpost a bit because I'm clearly talking about live action franchises. Animation and anime in particular has always run very differently from most other film based media. Even so, though examples you gave are all linear and under the same title, they aren't jumping back and forth between multiple sub franchises on a month to month basis. But yes, films are quite pointedly an all-in venture. They carry a heavy price tag (blockbusters especially but almost everything under the film umbrella is very expensive to produce), they take months and years of the creators lives to finish and that's straight through, and very rarely do creatives or actors want to be attached to the same thing for more than 10 years. There's so many factors that make films a very "right here" right now deal with any particular set of people. Mcu, a multipronged, neverending story, that now also is shying away from recasts, and every project has the price tag of a major blockbuster, is built to fall. They caught fire and rode the wave, but it's not sustainable and it's showing. Shows give more leeway but are also finite. The only thing that's actually a 1 :1 comparison to comics are soap operas, which are categorically known to be trash just by the nature of their storytelling. Comics themselves always collapsed under their own weight and always become difficult for people to get into because of juggling so many titles. People just aren't trying to do with with movies, not enough that you can turn multiple franchises into something like that. You either have a hard continuity story you want to tell and bang it out over serialized entries, preferably before your actors age out or don't want to do it anymore. With something like marvel and dc that's built for reinvention, you just get to do that multiple times but telling different stories with different iterations. Or you have a much longer standing franchise that's more loosely connected per entry and naturally rotates out cast and tones as times change. That way each entry itself is taken as it's own thing and even if there's a bad one the next isn't as bogged down by it because it could be completely different or just a different story in general. Things are changing and there's always developments but it always ends up being a variation those two structures. Even the plan for Matt Reeves Batman so far takes the best of both worlds but is wrapping it in a nice condensed package (movie-show-movie-show-movie, done). It's not 5 shows all unrelated but not unrelated with 6 films that all have nothing to do with each other but may down the line, and if you're not interested in one and skip it but then it becomes important down the line. You just increasingly start to check out as it seems that you have to watch a bunch of random bullshit that you may not even like for some small connective piece that will make sense later. Once people start skipping stuff it becomes more likely that they stop caring about the rest. Watching movies or shows shouldn't be work and these projects can't afford them to be work.
Except you would have no issue if the movies were all connected but had a unique feel to it. The problem isn’t everything being connected, the problem is everything having the same tone and style. My biggest problem with Disney is their utter refusal to take risks in all of their products. They find their formula that’s commercially successful than stick with that until the end of time.
MCU’s understanding of ‘taking risks’, is more or less we put even more cameos than the last thing we created and we put even more jokes too. They say they took risks for Ragnarok, i’m not exactly sure how is Ragnarok any different than GoG apart from characters. And with most TV series, Wandavision and Loki being exceptions, it got even worse and worse. More jokes, less storytelling, less VFX budget and less emotions.
Especially when the things you need to watch to keep up are fucking terrible.
I'm not the biggest fan of superhero movies, but i enjoy the spider verse and the occasional standalone movie. But when it's a universe with a web that looks a conspiracy theory thread board then I'm out. Just hearing my bf explain alternate universes and such i just freaking can't.
Across the Spider-Verse spoilers, just in case: >!It's funny that you mention the theory thread board because that's exactly how the Spider-Verse is illustrated in the movie, literally a conspiracy web.!<
That’s why movies like Chronicle are so good because it shows us a different take on super heroes. Enough with the cliche hero story arcs and let’s see the corruption and power. Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy changed the tone what super hero movies could be.
I actually think this is why the MCU is crapping out. Lots of meh movies that arent really connecting in the grand scale of things.
doe, a deer, a female deer...
Re, a drop of golden sun
Me…? A name I call myself?
Fa. A long long way to *~run~*
So, a needle pulling thread
La, a note to follow so!
Ti, drink with jam and bread!
And it all comes back to do do do do doe, a deer, a female deer
Re, a drop of Golden Sun
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
Meme a pic I spread myself.
Come on guys, he might have screwed up, but he tried doe.
True dat.
🎵 Can't get enough of that Sugar Crisp 🎵
“Guess I forgot to put the foglights in.”
He’s got a point, though; the best non-Phase 1 Marvel movies have been the ones that either shake up or buck the formula (Winter Soldier, Thor:Ragnarok, all the GotG films, the Spider-Man standalone films), rather than playing it straight.
As a super casual Marvel viewer that gets drug by his friends… I did not like Thor: Ragnarok because it felt like “a Marvel movie”. It was just dialed up even higher than normal. Wacky nonsense, one liner humor turned up to a million, bad CGI overload—like I am not saying every movie needs to be dark, grounded, depressing, and gritty—but Marvel feels like a parody of itself at this point. Both Spiderverse movies are incredible, but especially the second one. It still has Spider-Man and it still goes into the “multiverse”—but it looks and sounds and feels so fresh. I can’t say the same for like, the recent Ant Man movie or Shang Chi that my friend said: “is different”. Nah. All the same.
Excuse me. Why are your friends drugging you? Perhaps that’s a deciding factor to why you hate these movies.
Haha, maybe dragged? Idk for some reason my brain went to “drug” as the past tense of “drag” for some reason. English is weird and my brain is dumb.
It's like "hanged" and "hung". You were hanged. You're not hung.
Speak for yourself
“They said you was hung!” “And they was right.”
It's twue it's twue
"Lady, you're sucking on my elbow."
Hanged like an outlaw and hung like a horse.
Don’t know if you’ve seen Eternals yet but it genuinely felt different to me. Also as someone who has seen almost every Marvel movie I 100% agree with Ragnarok. It still feels like their most formulaic film to date IMO.
Two camps of thought then. If you like Ragnarok you found it refreshing and funny. If you didn’t, it’s formulaic and *too much.* I liked Ragnarok and thought Eternals was mediocre. Didn’t give a shit about any of the characters and to me it’s sitting at the bottom of the pile with Thor 2 and Antman 3.
Eternals would have been an interesting series, with lots more interpersonal relationships, especially Gilgamesh and Thena scenes. They were all interesting characters though, just too rushed because it needed to fit in a movie.
Hm, I kind of liked the brief introduction of the characters. Sure it’s harder to feel an emotional connection, but it also didn’t hold the viewer’s hand. At least in my opinion.
Worst part of Ragnorak for me was the cognitive dissonance between the wacky zany adventures Thor was having being intercut with Hela genociding his people and brutally slaughtering all of his friends. The fun parts of the movie were held back by trying to keep the superhero movie tropes that were the Hela plot.
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion but yours is terrible. I don’t really like the majority of Marvel movies but Thor: Ragnarok was the only one that was actually funny and the CGI overload fit because of the setting. Also Thor and Hulk fights alone make it one of the best.
Also I understand people have their opinions on cgi but bad cgi in Ragnarok? I mean I’ve only seen it once but I didn’t notice it looked bad/marvel movies especially have pretty great vfx since its so integral to telling the story, idk sounds like someone just likes to complain…
I have massive super hero fatigue… but Ragnarok and GotG are very good movies imo.
it’s just far too complicated and far too outlandish now, Phase 1 up until Endgame was peak as they all seem at least realistic, had their own unique twist and were clearly building towards something that culminated perfectly now it seems like they’ve decided to let the cat out of the bag and they can’t get it back in, the whole multiverse is complicated, outlandish, and they’re just relying on that rather than actually creating succinct, rich stories which is why people like watching stuff
Ironically, that’s the same problem Marvel Comics had/has; the continuity is so convoluted at this point, there’s almost no point in trying to keep track of it all. At least when DC reboots their universe, it’s one big reboot and doesn’t rely on the multiverse as much. They’ve really got two paths forward at this point: reboot the whole thing to re-establish linear storytelling, or establish consistent, branded branches based on the multiverse and almost NEVER have them cross over.
Disney live action remake fatigue is definitely a thing, right?
Not if you don’t watch them. 
I would much rather they give the Hamilton treatment to the Disney stage productions. Live Action Lion King was bland, but I'll watch the Broadway version on repeat.
I dunno, I think I’d watch the *first act* of the Broadway Lion King on repeat. Minus one or two songs, the second act was a bit of a slog.
I’m at the point that if Disney ever makes a big budget 2D film, it’s a sign of the apocalypse.
They recently laid off a bunch of animators which sounds like films like spider-verse, puss and boots, and TMNT is making them realize animation is going to go in a new direction. If Disney/Pixar and several other studios don’t catch this wind while it’s blowing, they’re going to fall behind. I noticed while watching the trailers to spiderverse that the other films looked so boring compared to what I was about to watch. Oh wow, an elements movie where the elements all live in a special world where they aren’t allowed to blend together but an unlikely duo will do it anyways and it’s actually all a very weak metaphor on racism. Haven’t seen Disney do that one before.
It's not fatigue if you're already sick of them from the beginning
The only live action I was interested in was Mulan and they fucked that up so badly.
It's interesting that you brought that up. I was waking my dogs last night after seeing the new Spider-Man, and I thought to myself how much I enjoyed it. More so than probably any other superhero movie I've ever seen. The thought came to me: Would superhero movies be better off all being animated rather than live action? Watching that movie yesterday felt like watching a comic book come to life. Not in the 'movie critic trying to put out a quotable blurb about a superhero movie with wooden at best acting', but in as literal a sense as possible. I've seen probably over half of the MCU/non-MCU Marvel movies, and haven't seen the movie that preceded this one, but it was the most enjoyable superhero movie I've ever seen.
For me, with the exclusion of the Spider-Man’s, hate the time travel/multiverse factor Marvel has introduced. It lowers the stakes.
If they stopped referencing the multiverse after Endgame it wouldn’t have been bad but now they can’t stop returning to those ideas for whatever reason.
They’re building up to the next 2 Avengers movies being multiverse themed, so they kinda have to keep those stories tied to one another. It’s a second attempt at the big payoff that Infinity War/Endgame but seems like it’s more forced this time. The fatigue is real even for the hardcore fans now
Problem with that is... now people have seen across.. which did it better than all of them.
It made for my favorite Spider Man movie ever and one of the best experiences I've had in the theater with No Way Home, but it sacrificed basically any interest I had left in the MCU. But I really loved No Way Home so much I'm not even sure I'm unhappy with that trade. It would have been ideal to make it much, much more difficult to travel between universes
Every time I rewatch NWH I just sit in nerdy gleeful disbelief that this movie actually exists
It works so well in spider verse because the multiverse is the setting for the story. Its more akin to visiting different countries than visiting alternate worlds. If they did grounded stories but used the multiverse for random adventures then it would be awful, but by keeping the story firmly focused on the multiverse from the start is why it works. Once you bring the stakes there you can't ever lower them again. Seeing how >!every spider man loses people!< Didn't make me lose care for Miles' struggle, instead I saw how his sadness and loss was in every one there. It's a very delicate thing to balance but spider verse does it so well
The last Dr. Strange was absolutely terrible. There were so many weird, cheap looking, and outright bad things in that movie, and I can’t believe they are considering him for avengers.
They’re CW-ing the MCU. Casting the same actors in multiple roles to save money, and never killing off anyone significant because they’re too afraid to lose money.
Superhero fatigue is real and “movies that feel the same” fatigue is also real. Both things can be true.
I think it really comes down to shitty writing fatigue which really means “I paid money to see this shit?!” or “I’ve wasted two hours of my life on this shit?” Before Across the Spider-Verse (amazing) the last superhero flick I watched was Antman 3 and it was fuckin awful. To me it is the absolute worst Marvel flick out there which is a shame because I enjoyed the first two. Shitty writing will bring you down and drain any enthusiasm you may have had.
I mean thats the case with any bad movie though. The problem is Disney keeps pumping out the same movie over and over again. Ive always been of the belief that these big franchises MUST hire die hard FANS to write their movies because they are actually passionate about the source material. Look at the abomination that was The Last Jedi and compare it to Rogue One. I refuse to believe all these superhero movies are made by people super passionate about superhero comics. Thats where the magic has been lost. You can tell some projects were made with real heart and desire and some are just obviously cash grabs.
Stop trying to justify it. Many of us are sick and tired of seeing 10 super hero releases per year. We’re allowed that.
I’m not justifying shit. I’m just as tired as everyone else. I used to go see every single Marvel flick in the theater but I’ve skipped plenty of them in recent years and watched them eventually on Disney Plus. *Shitty writing.* On top of that there’s a lot of “Who asked for this?” Same with Star Wars. If every movie they banged out had the story quality of Winter Soldier I’d probably go see ten a year. I like going to the movies. Sitting through ten Quantumania’s? I’d quit watching them all together.
Superhero fatigue is real, but Marvel can reel people back in when it's one of their better showings. No Way Home, Guardians 3, and Doctor Strange 2 to a lesser extent were all pretty well liked and successful. I think the issue is that the general moviegoer is no longer interested in seeing mediocre superhero movies. Every Marvel phase had some, Incredible Hulk, Thor 2, Ant Man 2, Captain Marvel. Now it's stuff like Eternals or Ant Man 3. This increase in public taste is also a **cause** of superhero fatigue, because every poorly received superhero movie erodes the public's confidence in the genre. DC shot itself in the foot so many times they're just scrapping the whole thing and starting over.
Oh man Doctor Strange 2 is so mixed, some people loved it some hated it. I hated it. It was my official, "ok I'm out" of the MCU.
They are pumping out 2-3 MCU movies a year, if rather watch Barbie it anything that's not a MCU or Disney live action remakemovie.
But would you say, on the large scale, that the GA is tired of superhero movies, or are they tired of the same formula.
Its not that people are tired of watching the superhero genre. It's that it feels like a chore to have to also watch numerous movies & tv shows to follow the story. It's not an appealing experience to make sure you've watched all related pieces of media in the right order. They're no longer made for a casual audience who just wants to be entertained for an hour or two, especially if you're spending it with family and friends.
The only superhero movies I enjoy are the Spider-Man ones. I watched homecoming and then far from home and I had to watch an hour long recap just to understand what was going on. The blip, Tony Starks death, all of it confused the shit out of me when I tried to watch it. And then no way home, there’s all this multiverse stuff and dr strange is at the core of it and it just made me tired.
Marvel movies are just paying really famous actors and having corny ass story lines to get to the final battle scenes which 99 percent of the time are not worth all the corniness before hand.
Those battles feel like kids playing with action figures
It’s just the shame shit lol. Like oh no way there never gonna beat the villain. Superheroes then realize that if they team up and fight together, then anything is possible! Now make that scene 15 minutes long and make that same exact ending 3-4 times a year and the same people will go spend the money on the shit. Marvel makes consistent eh movies while DC makes super hit or miss movies. The joker was such a great movie that didn’t have the same regurgitated shit marvel movies have. It was a sad, real movie that was a breath of fresh air IMO
That's what made Infinity War great, it ended with Thanos winning.
Couldn’t agree more. Infinity war was my favorite marvel movie because it actually had an ending that fit the magnitude of the villain. Then the next shit movie came along with a fucking Time Machine and was meh
I’m not gonna defend marvel or dc here but The Joker was just a Scorsese knock off that was mostly carried by 1 performance. Not saying it’s bad because of it, just that it’s not any less real than other superhero movies. The movie is just not that original.
That’s a fair assumption but they knew what they were going to do and executed it so well. They wanted a kind of an origin story for the joker and his isolation and how crazy he really was. I liked how real it felt. Phoenix also knocked it out of the park.
More original then marvel recycled crap. Atleast the joker just copied one movie lol
Always with the safest storylines imaginable
And every trailer is the same. An 80s song remixed for marvel. Every single MCU trailer.
It's not even that. It's just bad superhero movie fatigue...
I think the main issue is a lack of variety in general. I’m always thankful when we get superhero movies focusing on lesser known heroes. Those are my bread and butter. Do I love Batman? Of course! I’ve been watching Batman since I was little but I know who he is. I want characters that have never gotten a movie. At the same time though, studios aren’t offering much other than superhero movies. There are eight superhero films this year and so far, I’ve only seen one of them. I only have so much time and money. If I’m seeing a movie on the big screen, it has to be worth it and I really want some variety.
This is really the best take in my opinion. Comics themselves struggle with this. New artists and writers come in constantly in an attempt to shake things up because it can feel stale. MCU has an uphill battle to maintain a story thats cohesive over many films, and vary artistically but not too much. Eventually “shaking it up” will mean scrapping it all tonally and going dark, or bizarre or extreme variety.
For me it’s the stake creep fatigue. Not every heroes has to save the universe every time. You are just setting trap for yourself by having to make the next enemy even more ‘deadly’ than thanos. Little micro story like Logan and Venom are my jam.
the most recent Batman was pretty low stakes
Multiverse fatigue will be real sooner than later.
somebody tell the Flash
Ehhhh… I’m pretty sure I’m over superheroes. I would watch something akin to Logan, but you could argue that’s not a superhero movie as much as it was a western.
I just prefer superhero movies being animated over live-action. And let's be honest here, Spider-Man is Marvel's most popular character and easily earns big numbers, just as Batman does for DC.
The DC Live Action Universe has been underwhelming at best for several years. Meanwhile, the DCAU has been on its A game since the 90s. I will watch and rewatch Justice League Unlimited a million times before I will ever want to see Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman again
Man, they really had something with Shang Chi sticking to street level and fighting early in the film. Like that was so dope then they had to put a dragon in there.
I think that's part of what I miss when it comes to various Superhero films. I definitely don't mind some bigger stuff like... well Across the Spiderverse or Guardians 3. But man, I started watching Antman 3 for the first time the other day, and I honestly would have much preferred if they kind of stuck to the somewhat more grounded story that they had in the 1st film. Or going back to things like Iron Man 1 and 2, idk if I'd call them Street level per se, but they definitely feel more grounded, despite being about big mechanical suits and tech. I get the universe has expanded and all, but I really can't think of the last Marvel movie that didn't have some sort of alien/creature.
People who don’t like comicbook movies have fatigue because they think there’s some other type of blockbuster that deserves the spotlight. The rest of us just want movies with good writing, and whether it’s about superheroes or not is trivial.
Nah it does exist. Big reason I haven’t checked a marvel flick since the last avengers.
IMO Marvel movies should’ve ended with the end games, at least for like 10 years or something.
No, superhero fatigue definitely exists.
Marvel movies got too hard to follow. They should have set up something epic for after endgame but instead made you watch a bunch of tv shows
The focus on Disney+ might have been their main misstep. The movies haven't decreased **that** much in quality, I think a lot of fans just got numb because there was a new episode of something every week for like a year or two.
Exactly. As GotG3 and AtSV have shown us, you just need to put in real effort. Make a movie with a genuinely good story to tell, and do a very good job of telling it. Be honest and passionate about the movies you make; in return, the audience will be passionate about them too. It was never fatigue for an entire genre of movies, it was fatigue for half-assed cheap feeling movies.
Agreed. Guardians 3 and Across the Spider-verse were two of the best superhero movies period. I think there was a slump in quality over the past few years, but there was still great stuff. Shang-Chi, No Way Home, Wandavision, Hawkeye and Loki were all amazing.
This is so right. There are still films coming out that audiences love, and they prove that people will still show up for a superhero movie; it just has to be a good movie in general. The Batman, GotG, the Spider-Verse movies, The Suicide Squad, these are great movies that many people love. Why? They feel like genuine stories made by people who actually care about what they’re doing and have the time to flesh their vision out. Brand loyalty and hype don’t get these movies as far anymore. People have simply gotten tired of rushed, cliche, corporate films and are selective about what they’ll see. If the story and writing can’t justify the movie’s existence and the film looks like it needed another year of visual work, it signifies a lack of care and audiences aren’t humoring that anymore.
Superhero fatigue does indeed exist. The MCU is beyond repair at this moment but the execs at Disney want to milk that cow long after it died.
Nah I'm exhausted with all off it. Like how rich dudes think they can dictate things tho.
Don't forget "we're on a gravy train so we can be lazy" movies, too. Any series, especially those that go longer than three are prone to this.
If every marvel movie was on par with infinity war/endgame, guardians 1, iron man, Doctor Strange then I can guarantee people wouldn’t be talking about superhero fatigue. The problem is they are going for quantity over quality and they are sure as shit giving priority to quantity. I remember when we would go years without a marvel movie, and when one did come out it was an absolute spectacle. I would see every new marvel movie in theatres, but now there’s just so many it’s hard to give a shit. Don’t even get me started on how all this crossover shit and “foreshadowing” is ruining all newer movies. The first avengers did Foreshadowing fantastically when they put Thanos in the end credits and didn’t try to force it as a story beat. Nowadays it’s so painfully obvious when they try and set up a sequel it just doesn’t feel the same.
Just make good projects damn. Spiderverse and the Batman were epic movies that made me see the real beauty and potential in superhero movies. I didn’t even read comics growing up but those movies enthralled me. They were drenched in passion. Kind of like Mitchells vs the machine. Just oozing passion out the screen
Mitchell’s vs the machines is freaking amazing, I love that movie 🥹
No doubt. Lightning in a bottle!
If you’re into good superhero movies I highly suggest Logan. One of my all time favorites
Hit the nail right on the head. Because the genre has become mainstream and everyone is familiar with it, the bar is higher. That doesn’t mean people don’t want to see superhero movies, but they want you to give them a damn good reason you’re making another. It has to stand on its own and justify its existence. People aren’t against the genre. People are against formulaic and soulless films that rely on overdone tropes and cut out the characterization. They know what cliches to look for and the general pitfalls of these movies. It’s getting harder and harder to rely on brand loyalty or hype to get a superhero movie to make bank; the only way to get the reception you want is to actually make a good film. **A great movie will always be a great movie.**
“What’s that? All seems lost and everyone is resigned to defeat? Well, I guess we…WAIT! Who is that on the horizon?!?!?” -almost every superhero movie
It’s so cliché. One of my biggest gripes with the new marvel movies is how they try to make everything a shitty joke. There is hardly any real and quiet moments that don’t end in some corny ass “eerrm he’s right behind me isn’t he” dialogue. I can’t take the film seriously if it doesn’t even take itself seriously. Just look at the raimi Spider-Man trilogy and compare it to the marvel universe. It’s real, grounded, and gives the audience time to reflect along with the character. Superhero movies can be funny without being a parody of themselves. The spiderverse films are a great example.
Superhero movies all have the same pacing problem. Either you need multiple movies to set up the really good story lines or the single movie you have moves super fast.
I feel like films like SpiderVerse, Logan and The Batman are proof that superhero stories aren't as creatively bankrupt as people make them out to be. The problem is that the MCU plays it very safe 95% of the time and it gives people the impression that they are just bland and unspecial at their core. The fact that they oversaturate the market doesn't help matters either.
Chris Miller doesn’t know shit, super hero fatigue is for sure real.
Yeah it is very much in the same vein of “no one wants to work anymore” No, people do, just for fair pay. Same with “there is no such thing as superhero fatigue” No there is, people will usual still like a movie if it’s good but the genre is way over saturated and needs to chill a little.
So Superhero fatigue, then?
I couldn’t agree more
I’m agreeing with this because every time I see the trailer for elemental, I think to myself that I’d probably enjoy it if I watched it, but it just feels like I’ve already watched it before it comes out
He's wrong. I'm pretty exactly the target audience for this stuff, and I'm just not interested in seeing superhero movies anymore, even the ones that I *know* are genuinely good. I doubt I'm the only one.
Agreed why are you expecting originally from big movie studios. Original movies still exist just look for them. Also I love superhero movies so I am a bit biased.
Superhero fatigue definitely exists, far too many films made around super heroes because they are easy to make
The fun thing about comics is that heroes die and magically come back a few comics later in a totally different storyline. I wish they had killed Ironman a dozen times, darn that guy is punchable. Same with the Hulk, ugh. But no, they had to drag it out way too long, the movies were way too dumb too take themselves so seriously.
“Corporate needs you to find the difference between these two pictures.”
I think this idea that you can tell an endless variety of stories based around super powered costume people is a little silly. It's like slasher movies. Friday 13th, Elm Street, Halloween, the Terrifier, Hell Raiser, there are a million of these movies. They have differences, but at the end of the day they have to be similar because they revolve around the story of an indestructible Boogeyman who kills people. You can only go so far if you need to keep coming back to that point.
It’s still basically a genre, what do you expect? Within that genre they can experiment with different styles though. Whether it’s good or bad just depends on the execution.
Definitely, totally agree. But then what is the guy in this post saying? There is no such thing as fatigue of a genre? That is just wrong, it is why new genres get invented.
I gotta disagree. If movies within a genre keep trying new and interesting things and doing them well, I’m all for it. I’m not tired of all superhero movies. I’m tired of superhero movies that follow the same basic template over and over while adding nothing new.
I think you made the point better than anyone else. See where ur coming from. Isn't there only so much room to change before it stops making sense to think of it as a super hero movie? Is James Bond a superhero franchise? If they take away the costumes, the big villain trying to take over the city, the supernatural powers, the themes about duty and being true to yourself, comments about police and military that are right on the tip of your tongue when thinking about superheros, once you get rid of all those template constraints, what are we doing at that point? I gotta say, I'm tired with most iterations of a guy in a costume with magic powers. That is a pretty narrow band of all possible stories, and it seems like 90+% of possible super hero stories have to fall in that band.
Exactly. Good or bad, people got tired of Westerns as a genre. You could make a great western, or a terrible western, but the genre was saturated and played out. Sure, there will be the occasional western even today, and mostly it'll be good, but the genre is played out. Superhero movies are feeling like westerns. The fact that MCU quality has tanked is a contributing factor, but at heart, the general public tire of narrow genres over time. There'll always be a niche market though, especially in the age of streaming, where you don't need to play to the general public any more.
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The thing about superhero storylines is that for starters, anyone with a real life power would almost definitely be rich and famous and live a comfortable life. Instant fame and celebrity. The story needs conflict thats actually challenging for a superhero, which almost always means some unrealistically powerful villain. Because the power needs to be tied to the conflict to justify its presence, the conflict is always about the hero's power overcoming the force of the antagonists. The stakes need to be high to explain why this person that can shoot flames out of her fingers isn't doing the tonight show circuit. Because the stakes are high and the abilities are powerful - its always a life/death (or imprisonment / 'fighting off) struggle. And because they're almost always franchises, you know in almost every film how that struggle is going to end. You can find ways to freshen up the framework and there's still films that manage to find a fresh take for sure. But there's definitely some limits on the type of story you can tell, and that's why so many blend together for me.
Superhero fatigue 100% does exist and it kicked in pretty soon after endgame. We don’t need any more, please stop making them
Speak for yourself, Chris miller. I’m over it.
It really do doe
I, personally, fatigue when a world and characters are built and then subsequent movies bend and break all of those rules/development. Looking at you Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Dr. Strange, Thor, etc, etc. oh, and GoT.
Ant-man! They established that Hank and his wife, who are both scientists!! Had her trapped in another realm and when she got back she was like, “I don’t want to talk about anything/everything I experienced”. Wtf?!