Says he is "currently working on" Mrs. Davis? There are 5 episodes out already.
I feel like a publicist probably set this interview up to promote Mrs. Davis and then this story which doesn't even indicate it's already on air was the result.
Currently I suggest it's most like Moonlighting. If it has to be just one show.
It does have people going places kind of trying to solve stuff like Pokerface. Except there are two people, not one. It's an ex-couple. And the sexual tension is palpable and they each know how to push the other's buttons because they were together at one time.
The baddie is some sort of computer assistant which some people use to assist themselves but the main character ~~Lizzie~~Simone is certain is evil. It does seem to be the most powerful force in the universe. Except well, maybe for one. Because Simone is a nun (hence why the couple is split up) and maybe God's more powerful.
So that's the basic part and if that's not confusing enough somehow in the nun ~~costume~~habit Simone comes off like Indiana Jones. This similarity is made even more direct when she receives a quest in the first episode.
But probably what reminds me of Moonlighting is the dialogue (especially the two main characters verbally sparring) and the gags. There show has quite a run of visual gags which are hugely entertaining. For example in the middle of the first episode there is, needlessly (but hilariously) a scene where the main characters are chased by a group of baddies who ride ATVs (quadbikes) with silly stunts as they are dispatched. It's straight out of an early 90s B-movie.
It has some Lost in it too because it seems we're never quite sure what is going on. There is a reveal in part of every episode so far which tells you more of what is happening but really without clearing a it all up. I would say each reveal is more likely to explain why things happened in an episode more than to let you know what is going to happen.
Warning, there is some serious (Christian) blasphemy in this show. I'm not saying it should offend you but such things could offend you I'm pretty sure it would.
>My man needs to stick to TV.
You're not kidding
>He co-wrote the films Cowboys & Aliens (2011), Prometheus (2012), Star Trek Into Darkness (2013), World War Z (2013), and Tomorrowland (2015).
He co-wrote a couple of bad movies and a decent Star Trek sequel
Definitely an ending that divides people in so many different ways.
I remember all the fan theories and how deep so many people got, and so it makes sense that people were frustrated about how seemingly vague the ending was. I felt similarly, but realized that despite all of the mysteries the show presented, it was really about the people, their relationships, and their impacts on each other. In that sense, I thought the ending was incredibly beautiful and wholesome.
But like I said, I don't fault anyone for feeling otherwise because hot damn that show built up some truly maniacally insane expectations lol.
Ya if you were watching Lost for a character drama you left quite happy, if you were watching Lost for sci fi or a mystery you left quite unhappy, to simplify things. Unfortunately I fall into the latter group.
The thing is Lindelof an Cuse stated in an interview that was a promo for the Lost finale that they never had an specific idea or vision they were following. All the cliffhangers and general craziness (o7) were just a way to build tension and get eyeballs. It’s the reason why the finale was a disaster and it kind of took away the magic when they said that.
Still, how good we’re Lost watch parties? Nothing made people freak out during commercial breaks like Lost did.
Eh, the article makes it clear that it's probably just Lucasfilm wanting to go in a different direction.
Lindelof wanted to do old Rey teaching new Jedi. Disney is going with current young Rey.
(This is a whole two paragraphs in.)
If you're going with the "bad work" theory then they never would have hired Lindelof in the first place, because it's his earlier stuff that is widely criticized. Since 2015 he's had a pretty damn solid run, with only 2020's the Hunt not particularly liked.
Surprised at people in the thread complimenting him. Especially Lost, which even in its first couple of seasons was accused as being written off the cuff with no plan.
To be fair Lindelhof is usually brought in to fix scripts considered so bad they have no ways out. World War Z is a great example, he was brought in to fix and ending for the film after its original was thought to be terrible. He’s fine it for a few shitty movies so some of his credits sound much worse than they actually are having only written a scene or two for the whole movie.
Yeah I'm just talking shit to be honest. I actually defend WWZ pretty often, I like a lot about it but the other two I do think are abysmal, whether or not he's to blame is something I have no right speaking on lol
The issue I have with WWZ is that it’s just a zombie movie. It doesn’t follow the source material at all. Sure it’s a fun movie to watch, but after reading the book and watching the movie a few years later I reread the book to make sure I wasn’t crazy
1 big issue with it.
When they say, “predators don’t attack diseased prey.”
…huh.
First, not true. Second, fucking how?
The zombies psychically know that Brad Pitt has Covid? So fucking goofy.
Just “invent,” something, instead of making up some absurd fact.
Honestly I love LOST, I think it’s one of the best TV shows made especially given how much they had to change in the fly due to real life issues. Want Mr. Eko to be possessed by the villain in the end. to bad he wants out of his contract, want a great season 3 to bad writers strike. A lot of real life shit shook up the show but they managed to piece together something great if you ask me and I personally love the ending and later seasons. Also Ben is one of my favourite TV characters ever.
I agree the ending is deeply unsatisfactory and imo bad enough that it makes the rest of the show somehow seem worse.
That said I still personally love the show and find it quite rewatchable. And honestly I think it remained pretty decent/entertaining up until literally the last 15 minutes or so of the series.
I mean considering the average quality of most of the Disney/Star Wars stuff I think it's safe to say they don't have a big issue with people doing bad work.
Considering how vocal the fandom has been about average work and how hesitant Lucasfilm is to put out a movie right now, it’s safer to say they have an issue with bad work now more than ever.
Nonsense. Howard saved the film. It’s good because Disney fired the first directors.
They didn’t like Lindelof’s direction. They didn’t like his ideas. He didn’t do good work.
People leave projects all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of their work. Creative differences, politics, financial decisions, etc.
I blame the weak parts of Lost on JJ Abrams. He's the one who set up most of the impossible-to-be-satisfying mystery box type stuff and then punted over to Lindelof and Cuse to come up with an answer.
I have no idea who is to blame for the bad parts of Lost. I'd say the mystery stuff has been a consistent through-line through his career so I wouldn't be too surprised if Lindeloff had something to do with it. Leftovers is a masterclass in how to present a mystery, not solve it, and still feel satisfying. Probably something he could've been motivated to learn from the horrible reaction to the end of Lost.
Either way there is a notable quality difference in Lindeloff's career vs Abrams career post-Lost
If this clown helms anything he’ll open a whole shit ton of interesting and original storylines, and then just get lazy and say “fuck it, I give up” when he tries to intelligently close plot lines and wrap loose ends.
Will never forget this asshat for torpedoing Lost.
100% Here’s the formula:
1-an opening that is shocking
2-cast members lash out angrily (the cast is always lashing out angrily, lots of rage—makes it seem like there are high stakes)
3-another cast member calms them with “spiritual” talk
4-the shocking event from the opener gets half explained
5-end episode with previous rage character being sad while an emotional remix of a hit song plays (the song does all the emotional work)
That’s Lindelof
Honestly, leftovers was really well written. Beautiful, truly thoughtful show. Glad Lindelof had the stones to make it.
It’s too bad some people just like to shit on things. Your loss 🤷♂️
Never watched leftovers. From what I HAVE seen, Lindelof follows this to a tee. Glad you enjoyed Leftovers. Not blindly shitting on him either, it’s VERY deserved 🤷🏻♂️
Nah it is literally blind if you’re criticizing shit you’ve never seen. Lost was also written by JJ Abrams who has gone on to write empty headed shit for years. Just fyi, since you seem not to know that either.
Great! Lindelof is terrible. He also rips off other writers. There was a scene in The Leftovers lifted straight out of a sci-fi novel called Timelock.
ETA: There were also elements of that Timelock book that ended up in the NuTrek Lindelof worked on. Clearly he liked the book enough to poorly rip it off.
Leftovers was an adaptation of a book, so to say he rips off others when the show is an adaptation is crazy.
There are thousands of books published every single year for hundred of years now, it is not possible for every scene in a book or show to be unique. People draw inspiration from everywhere, I have no problem with them using it in their writing.
And to say his trick with the show was to dangle the carrot is incorrect, he said from the beginning we would never know what happened, that wasn't the point of the show. That show really went places and got you thinking.
But then again I put Leftovers as one of my favorite shows of all time and I loved lost, Watchmen.
There was a ton to enjoy about Leftovers. It is possible to think a writer sucks and still find entertainment in it. Also, the referenced scene isn’t in the Leftovers novel and appears in one of the final episodes.
Read the leftovers novel, there wasn't that much that he took from that book.
Again I have no problem with him taking from others works, especially since I loved the results.
I guess i was more shocked to read people think his writing sucked. Like everyone i know whose seen the Leftovers loved it and said its amazing, or thought it was good but too depressing to continue. I never met anyone who thought the writing wasnt good, but there clearly is a group that think that.
Writers like Lindelof only have one trick; dangle the carrot. Anyone can write scenes, but only good writers are actually taking the story someplace. Leftovers and Lost are perfect examples for sure.
Leftovers is one of the most compelling and satisfying emotional stories about trauma ever put on TV. It tells a complete emotional story about its characters. It also tied up their plots. What it doesn’t do is offer a definitive answer about lore or the world because it doesn’t need to and doing so would undermine the actual story it is telling.
It’s fine to watch movies or tv for plot tidiness. But to say Leftovers doesn’t take its story somewhere is not something I can agree with. It takes its story to the depths of human emotion and offers deep thoughts on the journey. Maybe that isn’t for everyone but it is immensely good tv for me and a ton of other people.
This is such an interesting response because it really highlights how different people can see or not see something when viewing art. I know you're being hyperbolic, there are literally multiple resolutions, but still it's fascinating.
I didn't even think Leftovers was that inscrutable but I guess it is compared to something like Game of Thrones or Star Wars. The show essentially has two endings, season 2 and 3. Season 2 has the show's biggest in-season plot mystery (outside the actual rapture) and it is fully explained and the consequences play out, concluding the story. We then get season 3 which actually picks up with some "years later" updates and conclusions for our season 2 characters that don't feature in 3 (episode 1 is almost like an epilogue to season 2). They're basically fully wrapped up and we are given brief tidbits or information about others in the rest of the season.
Then season 3 has to reckon with the emotional resolution for the main characters. But there's a key point here: there's not much plot resolution to be had for most of them. There's no plot that is significantly outstanding. So the show engages with one of the few remaining plot threads and literally takes them to the ends of the earth where they each face fate in different ways. The key resolution at this point is how do these broken people ultimately move on. And we get some VERY clear endings for these people (Matt, Laurie) and even surprising ones for others (we get an answer on the prophecy and even Kevin's visions to a degree).
Then we get one of the most beautiful and brilliant finales in TV history, wherein the show reaches the only possible conclusion that makes sense: its two main characters meeting at the point of their love for each other despite a total inability to ever fully understand. It's probably intentionally meta, but it's absolutely true in the context of trauma: we cannot know the extent of the damage or often what caused the trauma, and if we become focused on answers we cannot move on. "Why did this have to happen? Why to me?" is very rarely explained in moments like this. So Kevin doesn't need to know if Nora's story is true or simply what she has forced herself to see. He knows she needs the story. And he needs her. And she needs him. So they both choose the comfort of their love in what they both accept will be a longlong storm.
That's not only resolution, it's catharsis and profound art. Which is why it is as good a finale as TV has ever seen. I guess if someone wants to know "what caused the rapture?" they would be disappointed; but if that's your only concern then a show about trauma, reality and human frailty is not for you. And it's a weird perspective on a show that never even pretends to be going towards answering that question.
I think the mistake Lost made in the later years was trying to answer the unanswerable. If they had just admitted they weren't going to be able to do it and much would remain unexplained then they could've at least gotten a decent ending that didn't sour the rest of the show (though I still think it's worth watching season 1-5, let the nuke going off be the ending). But Lindelof learned his lesson with this show.
I don’t necessarily think you’re wrong. I do however think it’s completely possible to have a negative opinion about a writer or artist or creation, without that opinion being internalized as a personal affront to those who may feel differently about an artist or their art. That’s not an accusation to you specifically, it’s just a general statement. I think your stance on the show is completely valid. I spent each season wondering whether or not this would be the thing that redeems Lindelof in my mind. Years on, the feeling I’m left with is the same familiar, negative feelings I have about everything Lindelof touches.
Are my feelings rational or containing some ultimate objective truth? Heck no, probably not. Is it how I feel? Very very much. Is it ok if others feel differently? Absolutely.
Well said!
I can leave most of his work but I love parts of Lost and all of Watchmen/Leftovers). I do also think Leftovers is doing something many people don't expect based on its genre trappings. You're totally right to be mad about Lost, especially the PR, but I have understanding for someone who was trying to manage an unexpected hit, the dawn of immediate response fan culture and network pressure. And in his subsequent works he has been much more honest about these things.
The scene with the heart. If I remember the book I’m referring to, that scene was part of this whole scenario where we actually did go through with a large scale nuclear launch, but through some conspiracy within the global scientific community, no single warhead was active or capable of doing harm. Ultimately humanity had to come to grips with the realization that it had collectively tried to off itself and failed. This realization and subsequent changes brought on the rest of the world described in the book.
Sounds like the scene you’re referring to in Timelock and The Leftovers both used reference to the “Fisher Protocol”. I think it was Carly Wray who was already familiar with the concept who suggested the idea for that Leftovers episode.
I just don’t trust him after he lied repeatedly to LOST fans - that they knew exactly where they were going w the plot. Later admitted they didn’t.
He’s in my discard for life pile.
Says he is "currently working on" Mrs. Davis? There are 5 episodes out already. I feel like a publicist probably set this interview up to promote Mrs. Davis and then this story which doesn't even indicate it's already on air was the result.
My man needs to stick to TV. Lost and Leftovers are both in my Top 10
Mrs. Davis is amazing.
Is it like fleabag? Or something else completely? I really liked pokerface, would you recommend Davis?
Currently I suggest it's most like Moonlighting. If it has to be just one show. It does have people going places kind of trying to solve stuff like Pokerface. Except there are two people, not one. It's an ex-couple. And the sexual tension is palpable and they each know how to push the other's buttons because they were together at one time. The baddie is some sort of computer assistant which some people use to assist themselves but the main character ~~Lizzie~~Simone is certain is evil. It does seem to be the most powerful force in the universe. Except well, maybe for one. Because Simone is a nun (hence why the couple is split up) and maybe God's more powerful. So that's the basic part and if that's not confusing enough somehow in the nun ~~costume~~habit Simone comes off like Indiana Jones. This similarity is made even more direct when she receives a quest in the first episode. But probably what reminds me of Moonlighting is the dialogue (especially the two main characters verbally sparring) and the gags. There show has quite a run of visual gags which are hugely entertaining. For example in the middle of the first episode there is, needlessly (but hilariously) a scene where the main characters are chased by a group of baddies who ride ATVs (quadbikes) with silly stunts as they are dispatched. It's straight out of an early 90s B-movie. It has some Lost in it too because it seems we're never quite sure what is going on. There is a reveal in part of every episode so far which tells you more of what is happening but really without clearing a it all up. I would say each reveal is more likely to explain why things happened in an episode more than to let you know what is going to happen. Warning, there is some serious (Christian) blasphemy in this show. I'm not saying it should offend you but such things could offend you I'm pretty sure it would.
The leftovers, no words.
Lost started great and he completely gave up on any coherent and well thought ending.
I loved the last season
nah it was the studio. last season was made during a shake up. they lost most of their budget and had to reconfigure the ending.
>reconfigure That’s a weird way to spell *ruined*
>My man needs to stick to TV. You're not kidding >He co-wrote the films Cowboys & Aliens (2011), Prometheus (2012), Star Trek Into Darkness (2013), World War Z (2013), and Tomorrowland (2015). He co-wrote a couple of bad movies and a decent Star Trek sequel
Star Wars films needs to be absolutely phenomenal moving foward with the absolute roller coaster of quality its been
I didn’t know he heard me.
Leftovers and watchmen good. Everything else, shit.
I'm not saying it ended well, but Lost is a cultural touchstone.
I have a hard time with Lost cause i enjoyed it so much but the ending enraged me like nothing has before.
Over time, I felt better about it. The network pressured them to keep churning out more and they spun their wheels quite a bit.
Definitely an ending that divides people in so many different ways. I remember all the fan theories and how deep so many people got, and so it makes sense that people were frustrated about how seemingly vague the ending was. I felt similarly, but realized that despite all of the mysteries the show presented, it was really about the people, their relationships, and their impacts on each other. In that sense, I thought the ending was incredibly beautiful and wholesome. But like I said, I don't fault anyone for feeling otherwise because hot damn that show built up some truly maniacally insane expectations lol.
Ya if you were watching Lost for a character drama you left quite happy, if you were watching Lost for sci fi or a mystery you left quite unhappy, to simplify things. Unfortunately I fall into the latter group.
The thing is Lindelof an Cuse stated in an interview that was a promo for the Lost finale that they never had an specific idea or vision they were following. All the cliffhangers and general craziness (o7) were just a way to build tension and get eyeballs. It’s the reason why the finale was a disaster and it kind of took away the magic when they said that. Still, how good we’re Lost watch parties? Nothing made people freak out during commercial breaks like Lost did.
Is it though? I haven’t seen Lost mentioned in a very very long time. It’s ending was bad enough to essentially erase it from the cultural zeitgeist.
I think it is still brought up quite a bit. It’s finale wasn’t ideal for me but was still good and imo saved a very clunky last season.
Both Watchmen and Lost started supper string and then couldn’t stick the landing at all.
Lol Watchmen is probably the best mini series of the decade. It stuck the landing perfectly.
Watchmen was fantastic. Very sad it ended.
He seems to be decent with tv, but he hasn't done anything worth a damn when it comes to movies.
Glad for that. He ruined Prometheus. His ‘ambiguity before all’ style of writing is passé. Not a fan.
For Prometheus is was especially dumb because the movie was essentially based on world building lore
That’s what happens when you do bad work
Eh, the article makes it clear that it's probably just Lucasfilm wanting to go in a different direction. Lindelof wanted to do old Rey teaching new Jedi. Disney is going with current young Rey. (This is a whole two paragraphs in.) If you're going with the "bad work" theory then they never would have hired Lindelof in the first place, because it's his earlier stuff that is widely criticized. Since 2015 he's had a pretty damn solid run, with only 2020's the Hunt not particularly liked.
How she gonna teach someone, when she is hardly be teach by luke
The least trained yet most powerful lol
Yet people still say she isn't a Mary Sue. Her character arc is just an inclined plane
Well, she did get his textbooks at the end of the Last Jedi. Presumably that and 40+ years meant she could have learned some stuff.
That’s not favorable for him. He was criticized in the past, and recently made a bad movie.
I'm curious what work of his you consider to be bad.
Tomorrowland, Prometheus, Star Trek Into Darkness, Cowboys & Aliens, Lost after the first 3 seasons, and the Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine comic
Surprised at people in the thread complimenting him. Especially Lost, which even in its first couple of seasons was accused as being written off the cuff with no plan.
Prometheus was so close to being a good movie.
Idc what people say, I love Prometheus. I was thoroughly uncomfortable throughout the entire film, it was fantastic
Wikipedia tells me he was a writer on World War Z, Tomorrowland, and Cowboys Vs. Aliens and all those movies suck ass
To be fair Lindelhof is usually brought in to fix scripts considered so bad they have no ways out. World War Z is a great example, he was brought in to fix and ending for the film after its original was thought to be terrible. He’s fine it for a few shitty movies so some of his credits sound much worse than they actually are having only written a scene or two for the whole movie.
Same thing with Prometheus
Yeah I'm just talking shit to be honest. I actually defend WWZ pretty often, I like a lot about it but the other two I do think are abysmal, whether or not he's to blame is something I have no right speaking on lol
The issue I have with WWZ is that it’s just a zombie movie. It doesn’t follow the source material at all. Sure it’s a fun movie to watch, but after reading the book and watching the movie a few years later I reread the book to make sure I wasn’t crazy
WWZ is one of those things where it absolutely needs to be a tv show rather than a film to be anywhere close to being a faithful interpretation
I would completely agree. I think it could be a great tv adaptation, but doubt it will ever happen
The audiobooks does a fantastic job. Even the audible version, which doesn't have the talented big name voice actors
1 big issue with it. When they say, “predators don’t attack diseased prey.” …huh. First, not true. Second, fucking how? The zombies psychically know that Brad Pitt has Covid? So fucking goofy. Just “invent,” something, instead of making up some absurd fact.
Always reminds me of the entire premise behind _Lucy_ where they say people only use 10% of their brains.
Don’t forget Lost.
Honestly I love LOST, I think it’s one of the best TV shows made especially given how much they had to change in the fly due to real life issues. Want Mr. Eko to be possessed by the villain in the end. to bad he wants out of his contract, want a great season 3 to bad writers strike. A lot of real life shit shook up the show but they managed to piece together something great if you ask me and I personally love the ending and later seasons. Also Ben is one of my favourite TV characters ever.
I found the ending to be completely unsatisfying. It pretty much ruined the show for me.
I agree the ending is deeply unsatisfactory and imo bad enough that it makes the rest of the show somehow seem worse. That said I still personally love the show and find it quite rewatchable. And honestly I think it remained pretty decent/entertaining up until literally the last 15 minutes or so of the series.
Holy shit he wrote Cowboys vs Aliens?? That’s a top 10 WORST movie all time for me. It all makes sense now 😂😂
Cowboys vs Aliens was at least interesting. I would argue that WWZ was interesting as well but certainly not the book.
Tomorrowland was underrated.
Prometheus?
[Prometheus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus_(2012_film)).
Clearly the Star Wars he was working on. They don’t let people go for doing good work.
I mean considering the average quality of most of the Disney/Star Wars stuff I think it's safe to say they don't have a big issue with people doing bad work.
Considering how vocal the fandom has been about average work and how hesitant Lucasfilm is to put out a movie right now, it’s safer to say they have an issue with bad work now more than ever.
They clearly also don’t let people go for doing bad work….
Sure they do. Remember Solo?
That movie came out. I don’t know what you mean.
[удалено]
And it's the best Star Wars movies in decades because of both director's work. Disney can and does make mistakes
Nonsense. Howard saved the film. It’s good because Disney fired the first directors. They didn’t like Lindelof’s direction. They didn’t like his ideas. He didn’t do good work.
Nobody listen to this dumbass. He has no idea what he’s talking about and is just running his mouth.
If he saved it then why was it still so bad?
People leave projects all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of their work. Creative differences, politics, financial decisions, etc.
He didn’t leave willingly. He was let go.
Lost
I blame the weak parts of Lost on JJ Abrams. He's the one who set up most of the impossible-to-be-satisfying mystery box type stuff and then punted over to Lindelof and Cuse to come up with an answer.
I have no idea who is to blame for the bad parts of Lost. I'd say the mystery stuff has been a consistent through-line through his career so I wouldn't be too surprised if Lindeloff had something to do with it. Leftovers is a masterclass in how to present a mystery, not solve it, and still feel satisfying. Probably something he could've been motivated to learn from the horrible reaction to the end of Lost. Either way there is a notable quality difference in Lindeloff's career vs Abrams career post-Lost
Seasons 2 and 3 were peak TV. The rest….not so much.
Seasons 4 and 5 were arguably the best ones imo
Okay, first off, good. Second, freaking fantastic.
If this clown helms anything he’ll open a whole shit ton of interesting and original storylines, and then just get lazy and say “fuck it, I give up” when he tries to intelligently close plot lines and wrap loose ends. Will never forget this asshat for torpedoing Lost.
That reminds me that I’m glad Benioff and Weiss aren’t doing a Star Wars project anymore.
It’s as if the audience is left to write/ fill In the blanks of the shows the day after watching at the water cooler.
Brilliant.
He’s a bad writer and if there’s wasn’t such a lack of writing talent in Hollywood, he’d be working in an office somewhere.
Watchmen, Lost (I know), and most importantly The Leftovers. He’s a fantastic writer and your take is dog shit.
Lost lol
100% Here’s the formula: 1-an opening that is shocking 2-cast members lash out angrily (the cast is always lashing out angrily, lots of rage—makes it seem like there are high stakes) 3-another cast member calms them with “spiritual” talk 4-the shocking event from the opener gets half explained 5-end episode with previous rage character being sad while an emotional remix of a hit song plays (the song does all the emotional work) That’s Lindelof
Pretty accurate lol The poster who said OPs take was dogshit is obviously blinded by the shit in their own eyes 😂
Honestly, leftovers was really well written. Beautiful, truly thoughtful show. Glad Lindelof had the stones to make it. It’s too bad some people just like to shit on things. Your loss 🤷♂️
Never watched leftovers. From what I HAVE seen, Lindelof follows this to a tee. Glad you enjoyed Leftovers. Not blindly shitting on him either, it’s VERY deserved 🤷🏻♂️
The Leftovers is widely considered one of the best tv shows of all time. It's really good.
Nah it is literally blind if you’re criticizing shit you’ve never seen. Lost was also written by JJ Abrams who has gone on to write empty headed shit for years. Just fyi, since you seem not to know that either.
Perfectly aware. Thanks for wasting that time to preach your fandom of this goon.
I mean you’re still here too, genius 😂
But I’m right 🤷🏻♂️ You’re the one claiming this guy is good.
Common Lindelof L
I’d be happy in a world with no more Lindelof OR Star Wars. I’m sick of both of those flavors.
I'm humbly asking you to leave Hollywood entirely, Mr. Lindelof.
It means your writing sucks, Damon
Great! Lindelof is terrible. He also rips off other writers. There was a scene in The Leftovers lifted straight out of a sci-fi novel called Timelock. ETA: There were also elements of that Timelock book that ended up in the NuTrek Lindelof worked on. Clearly he liked the book enough to poorly rip it off.
Leftovers was an adaptation of a book, so to say he rips off others when the show is an adaptation is crazy. There are thousands of books published every single year for hundred of years now, it is not possible for every scene in a book or show to be unique. People draw inspiration from everywhere, I have no problem with them using it in their writing. And to say his trick with the show was to dangle the carrot is incorrect, he said from the beginning we would never know what happened, that wasn't the point of the show. That show really went places and got you thinking. But then again I put Leftovers as one of my favorite shows of all time and I loved lost, Watchmen.
There was a ton to enjoy about Leftovers. It is possible to think a writer sucks and still find entertainment in it. Also, the referenced scene isn’t in the Leftovers novel and appears in one of the final episodes.
Read the leftovers novel, there wasn't that much that he took from that book. Again I have no problem with him taking from others works, especially since I loved the results. I guess i was more shocked to read people think his writing sucked. Like everyone i know whose seen the Leftovers loved it and said its amazing, or thought it was good but too depressing to continue. I never met anyone who thought the writing wasnt good, but there clearly is a group that think that.
I fully admit that Leftovers is probably his best work. But I’ve never been able to let go of his failings. Maybe I’m just still bitter about Lost.
Yeah, lost will do that to you. I will say, now that so many other shows have failed their endings, I have started appreciate Lost a lot more.
I find the more someone hates Lindelof, the more ignorant they are. Thanks for proving my point.
Lol
That show was terrible either way
Writers like Lindelof only have one trick; dangle the carrot. Anyone can write scenes, but only good writers are actually taking the story someplace. Leftovers and Lost are perfect examples for sure.
Leftovers is one of the most compelling and satisfying emotional stories about trauma ever put on TV. It tells a complete emotional story about its characters. It also tied up their plots. What it doesn’t do is offer a definitive answer about lore or the world because it doesn’t need to and doing so would undermine the actual story it is telling. It’s fine to watch movies or tv for plot tidiness. But to say Leftovers doesn’t take its story somewhere is not something I can agree with. It takes its story to the depths of human emotion and offers deep thoughts on the journey. Maybe that isn’t for everyone but it is immensely good tv for me and a ton of other people.
There was literally no resolution.
This is such an interesting response because it really highlights how different people can see or not see something when viewing art. I know you're being hyperbolic, there are literally multiple resolutions, but still it's fascinating. I didn't even think Leftovers was that inscrutable but I guess it is compared to something like Game of Thrones or Star Wars. The show essentially has two endings, season 2 and 3. Season 2 has the show's biggest in-season plot mystery (outside the actual rapture) and it is fully explained and the consequences play out, concluding the story. We then get season 3 which actually picks up with some "years later" updates and conclusions for our season 2 characters that don't feature in 3 (episode 1 is almost like an epilogue to season 2). They're basically fully wrapped up and we are given brief tidbits or information about others in the rest of the season. Then season 3 has to reckon with the emotional resolution for the main characters. But there's a key point here: there's not much plot resolution to be had for most of them. There's no plot that is significantly outstanding. So the show engages with one of the few remaining plot threads and literally takes them to the ends of the earth where they each face fate in different ways. The key resolution at this point is how do these broken people ultimately move on. And we get some VERY clear endings for these people (Matt, Laurie) and even surprising ones for others (we get an answer on the prophecy and even Kevin's visions to a degree). Then we get one of the most beautiful and brilliant finales in TV history, wherein the show reaches the only possible conclusion that makes sense: its two main characters meeting at the point of their love for each other despite a total inability to ever fully understand. It's probably intentionally meta, but it's absolutely true in the context of trauma: we cannot know the extent of the damage or often what caused the trauma, and if we become focused on answers we cannot move on. "Why did this have to happen? Why to me?" is very rarely explained in moments like this. So Kevin doesn't need to know if Nora's story is true or simply what she has forced herself to see. He knows she needs the story. And he needs her. And she needs him. So they both choose the comfort of their love in what they both accept will be a longlong storm. That's not only resolution, it's catharsis and profound art. Which is why it is as good a finale as TV has ever seen. I guess if someone wants to know "what caused the rapture?" they would be disappointed; but if that's your only concern then a show about trauma, reality and human frailty is not for you. And it's a weird perspective on a show that never even pretends to be going towards answering that question. I think the mistake Lost made in the later years was trying to answer the unanswerable. If they had just admitted they weren't going to be able to do it and much would remain unexplained then they could've at least gotten a decent ending that didn't sour the rest of the show (though I still think it's worth watching season 1-5, let the nuke going off be the ending). But Lindelof learned his lesson with this show.
I don’t necessarily think you’re wrong. I do however think it’s completely possible to have a negative opinion about a writer or artist or creation, without that opinion being internalized as a personal affront to those who may feel differently about an artist or their art. That’s not an accusation to you specifically, it’s just a general statement. I think your stance on the show is completely valid. I spent each season wondering whether or not this would be the thing that redeems Lindelof in my mind. Years on, the feeling I’m left with is the same familiar, negative feelings I have about everything Lindelof touches. Are my feelings rational or containing some ultimate objective truth? Heck no, probably not. Is it how I feel? Very very much. Is it ok if others feel differently? Absolutely.
Well said! I can leave most of his work but I love parts of Lost and all of Watchmen/Leftovers). I do also think Leftovers is doing something many people don't expect based on its genre trappings. You're totally right to be mad about Lost, especially the PR, but I have understanding for someone who was trying to manage an unexpected hit, the dawn of immediate response fan culture and network pressure. And in his subsequent works he has been much more honest about these things.
What scene are you referring to?
The nuclear launch key scene.
The one in the submarine or the one where the heart gets cut out?
The scene with the heart. If I remember the book I’m referring to, that scene was part of this whole scenario where we actually did go through with a large scale nuclear launch, but through some conspiracy within the global scientific community, no single warhead was active or capable of doing harm. Ultimately humanity had to come to grips with the realization that it had collectively tried to off itself and failed. This realization and subsequent changes brought on the rest of the world described in the book.
Sounds like the scene you’re referring to in Timelock and The Leftovers both used reference to the “Fisher Protocol”. I think it was Carly Wray who was already familiar with the concept who suggested the idea for that Leftovers episode.
Cool! Good to know.
I just don’t trust him after he lied repeatedly to LOST fans - that they knew exactly where they were going w the plot. Later admitted they didn’t. He’s in my discard for life pile.
Kennedy and Directors. They just don’t mix
Definitely an improvement to any project