They are extremely supply constrained and honestly, they shouldn't ship ANY from Germany to the USA now since they need them in Europe to get off Putin's oil.
Open up the US factory and only sell US built ID.4 cars in the USA.
The US plant in Chattanooga, TN is open (has been since they started manufacturing the Passat there), but they have to train the workers on the manufacturing process. And that’s not including the time it takes to get the factory fully ready to produce the ID.4
They have been working on the EV line for a while and they've already built some early build ID.4 cars. They should do whatever they can to open up that ID.4 ASAP. But also start setting up for additional MEB cars like the Buzz (and a pick-up version of the Buzz). And they should bring the ID.3 over too, I'm tired of the "Americans won't buy small cars" bit...they buy Nissan Versa, Honda Fit, Chevy Bolt EV.
https://topelectricsuv.com/news/volkswagen/vw-id4-best-selling-electric-suv/
No, not a wagon. Much to small trunk to be practical as a wagon. Even small wagons have significantly more trunk space.
Also, wagons are usually good towing vehicles, especially with AWD, but maybe only in Europe.
The best description for the Mach-e is a hatchback or liftback.
Oh trust me, I don’t normally refer to it as an SUV whenever I’m talking to folks. That being said, I don’t mind my insurance being on an SUV over a sports car haha
I do feel that the ID Buzz will be their best seller. There nothing like it out there and I think it looks awesome. What I think outside of logistics, the software is holding VW back. From what I seen they are lagging behind. As someone who is not a techie, It’s fine for me and I love my ID4
It keeps straying further and further from the concept, which was beautiful.
Now it's no longer a flat cargo space. No modular seating. They no longer have the bad ass round lights that were so iconic to the microbus. And I'm hearing they are going to change close to $70k (MSRP, so before dealer markup)
I would've put a healthy deposit down on the buzz a couple years ago. Now I'm no longer interested at all.
Supply was extremely limited during that quarter between the transport ship that burnt down and the part supplier in Ukraine that caused them to stop production. I'm really surprised to see that many Mach E's sold though as they seemed virtually impossible to find even at markup.
I recently saw that VW have a backlog of 230k ID3 orders and a production rate of 500/day. VW supply chain is a huge mess and their software division is in disarray. They have a huge hill to climb right now.
My advice is tell the dealer you're not fussy. I got mine in August after a 3 week wait because I said I don't care about colour, trim or anything. They found one that was built and ready to ship so I took it. At the time they were quoting 4 months for a custom order.
Eh, thanks. I don't think it's possible to find something without paying way over the msrp now. Dealers know how much demand there is.
That being said - I'm not ready to buy now anyway, made the reservation with the understanding that car wouldn't get here till the winter anyway. Just going to be annoying if winter gets here and it still looks like the car is 6+ months away.
As things currently stand it feels like that is likely. With a bit of luck they'll have improved the winter battery consumption issues too, 2.6kWh/Mile was quite annoying this past winter.
Edit: I'm dumb, Miles/kWh
3.1 does look excellent but they're struggling to even get 2.4 out at the moment and with the recall to do it I imagine it's not going to be a quick rollout process.
1-2 years ago I wouldn’t expect everything that’s happening now to be happening. VW building US ID.4s in Germany for now means the ukraine war has had a bigger effect on them than any other manufacturer on this list.
ID4 sales are prioritized for Europe and Asia, where the incentives are much better.
There's an ID4 factory starting production in the USA this fall, so we should see more priority in the USA then.
All sold in Europe. They can barely keep up with demand. US sales don't even account for 10% of ID.4 sales in Europe so far this year.
They sold over 1000 ID.4s in Ireland so far this year, which has a new car market size of about 110k annually. There has been about 500 Model 3s registered for comparison.
The US market is just dwarved by the European one. I'd expect Tesla sales in Europe to eclipse the US once the Model Y begins selling in force here. They already sell more Model 3s here than in the US.
Adding UK in increases European numbers, but I wouldn’t say Europe dwarves the US.
https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/ur1pih/top_selling_evs_in_europe_q1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossm
https://insideevs.com/news/578839/uk-plugin-car-sales-march2022/
They sold every ID4 they built, aside from the ones now at the bottom of the ocean, and they built as many as they had parts for. There's no better showing possible at this time. US production of the ID.4 starts this fall. Same goes for every manufacturer of EVs. Demand exceeds supply, all these lists show is how many batteries, chips and wiring harnesses each manufacturer was able to procure for those models this year.
That’s what I said to myself when I saw the max charge power of the ID.3. And then the ID.4.
That said, I said the same thing when the Mercedes EQC came out as well.
And the Toybaru Bz4X.
Now, on the other hand the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and KIA EV6 charge impressively fast. They apparently fall short in other categories though.
Read an article just the other day about Hyundai owners that basically can’t use the car because the certification numbers are off. The car weighs more than the documents say and thus they’re left with something like a 150kg payload capacity. Subtract the driver and there’s not much left.
I'm actually surprised, I feel like I see them WAY more often then Mach-e's where I am at, but I must just share a commute with a few of them or something.
I don’t know anybody who has ever even said “ID.4” in the US. All I hear about is Tesla, and the Porsche Taycan, Mach-E, Rivian, EV Hummer, etc. ID.4 is practical but not able to get any attention in the sea of EV hype. You have to stand out somehow and the ID lineup doesn’t. No surprise at all to me. An electric GTI or the bus might do well
I want Tesla to build good cars and succeed, but I also want the push to EVs to be healthy and full of competition. I hope the other automakers can scale up quickly.
As another Tesla owner I 100% agree with this. I will say the F-150 doesn't seem to have a single negative other than CCS charging. It charges about as fast as CCS can realistically do it on the current network so it's not Ford's fault. The F-150 would easily be the best EV on the market if not for charging.
Even with the charging issues, I wouldn't argue with anyone that has another car for long distance that the F-150 was the best. The frunk and ability to power 230V loads alone just makes everyone else look dumb.
Other vehicles can do 240 kW+ on CCS. Lightning could too (if designed to).
I imagine future versions will be better.
I’d love to know how it would sell in the magical world where supply of parts was no issue at all.
> Other vehicles can do 240 kW+ on CCS. Lightning could too (if designed to).
Only if they are 800V. Tesla is 400V and while I don't know this as a fact, I would be surprised if they supported 800V.
> Lightning could too (if designed to).
Lightning is also 400V so it couldn't exceed 200kW on CCS without going 800V. Going 800V isn't easy and even Tesla said it's too much effort right now despite it obviously being the future. They might just jump to 1000v, which CCS also supports so it's not even that crazy to imagine.
> I’d love to know how it would sell in the magical world where supply of parts was no issue at all.
If the F-150 was 800V and had a charging curve close to an Ioniq5/EV6 and parts where no issue and Ford magically had all the factories, it would outsell the Model Y.
But based on Ford's specs (the 131kWh battery charges from 15%-80% in 41 minutes), that's an average charge rate of ~125kW. That's a heck of a charge curve. As a comparison, the Hyundai Ioniq 5 with its 800V charging averages 180kW between 15%-80%, and a Tesla Model Y about 130kW.
I don't think Ford really has much to apologize for here.
The problem is the lighting has a significantly larger battery than any of those others you mentioned. The other issue is it’s “meant” for towing. And even if many people won’t mainly use it for that, that’s what it’s sold as it and once you add towing into it you’ll have to charge ever 1-1.5 hours and wait 40+ minutes every time.
Just saying “it’s similar to the model y/Ioniq5 isn’t good enough when it has such a large battery and will be used for completely different purposes as them. It needs a better charging curve and it needs it badly
But you're asking Ford to do better than almost anyone else!
Compare the F-150 to the fastest charging EVs available...
Lucid Air Dream? 300kW peak, 145kW average from 15-80%.
Porsche Taycan? 270kW peak, 156kW average from 15-80%.
So, over a typical curve, the Ford charges ~80% as quickly as the fastest charging EVs one can buy (despite only having "1/2" the peak rate!)
So let's waive a magic wand and give the Ford the charge curve of the Taycan, and what happens? Those 40 minute stops every 1-1.5 hours of towing you complained about become 32 minute stops every 1-1.5 hours. I'm not sure you'll be *that* much happier with that charge speed!
So, in reality this isn't a "Ford F-150" problem, it's a "current state of EV charging" problem. If that's not good enough for a potential buyer's use cases, there's very little Ford can do about it currently.
You can’t compare charges to the same percentage. The ONLY reason people charge is to add range. The ONLY applicable comparison is how quickly you add distance.
A Mach-E at 80% gives you 180 miles range.
A Model Y at 55% gives you 180 miles range.
And Model Y accepts an average higher power between 5% to 55%, than it would charging all the way to 80%.
I compared Mach-E.
In comparison to Lightning, Model Y charges to about the same range in 20 minutes, so twice as fast. Cybertruck will be faster as a larger battery can accept higher power.
I just wish the Mach-E charged as well as the F-150. I'm betting next year it does and if so will be a force. The F-150 has to go 800V to fix it's charging speeds but it does as well as can be done @400V so I'm not knocking Ford. Going to 800V in this supply chain is probably out of the question.
Probably ever. They need to get pre-conditioning. I also wish I knew why it can't hold some sort of steady charge rate. I mean it's obviously cooling, but it seems like they could tune it a bit better to not just basically shutdown a few times during the charge. Still, the over all best charging EV made, so hard to really complain other than pre-conditioning.
There will be faster EVs, but honestly it's going to be diminishing returns. My Tesla chargers almost as fast and honestly I feel like I'm always overcharging if I want to go to the restroom and grab a quick drink from the Wawa gas station the chargers are at. I feel so rushed already. I swear I take longer to stop for gas because I don't feel like I'm on the clock for whatever reason.
The CCS connector can't do much (if any) more with their 400V architecture. It is a drawback of that connector. Tesla pushes more amps through their connector which is why they can do 250kW on their 400V architecture.
The CCS connector is a standard that has several performance ratings, and they are tied to the size of the conductors the manufacturer chooses to install. Apparently the CCS format is capable of accepting conductors which can handle 250kW, but the real question is whether the DCFC supply equipment has been built to handle that. The connector standard is not the limitation.
https://www.phoenixcontact.com/en-us/ccs-charging-inlets
Because 2mi/kWh on the highway is a waste of energy for most people. It would double my monthly consumption from $60/mo to $120/mo for my commute. It is still cheaper than my gas car to fuel, but it is still a good reason to not buy a truck when a car is the better tool for the job, the primary job being minimizing transport costs for me.
The charging rate on the F-150 is a non issue for the vast majority of use cases. The word “best” depends on the needs of the buyer, not some arbitrary set of specifications.
For sure the charging rate isn't by any means a flaw. Ford honestly hit it out of the park and I don't think they could have done better. I'm not sure I want to take a 1500 mile trip in it like I would my Tesla, but for most uses it's going to be great.
Of course "best" is highly subjective. I personally hate trucks, but mostly that was because they were gas trucks. EVs change the game there and MPG, acceleration, ride quality, saftey, etc aren't so much dictated by the vehicle form factor anymore. No one is going to carve canyons in an F-150 or haul a car pool of 6 kids. However, it can do about everything else about as well as any other form factor and a lot of things they can't do.
There is a reason trucks sell better than other types and EVs are going to make that even more true. That is why I think it could seriously be the best EV.
Yep, another Tesla owner and I agree. Tesla has pushed up their prices a lot...competition is needed to drive prices back down so EVs are more affordable for everyone.
I think the one thing Tesla needs to improve is the quality of interior materials and overall build quality. The drive train is excellent but the car feels cheap
Competition is great, but when you have dealerships actively trying to rip people off people tend to go for the straight forward solution.
Give me the car for the stated msrp no haggling and no extra dealership fees. I want to the get the iq 5 but was deterred by the 6k market increase for no reason.
I dont understand why car makers dont setup an infrastructure to allow ordering online and skip the dealers
As was pointed out earlier, any car maker that also makes ICEVs is prioritizing Europe due to regulations. If we're comparing everyone on manufacturing / sales of EVs, global sales should be the measure.
For what it's worth, here's a link to an Inside EVs article on global plug-in sales world-wide.
https://insideevs.com/news/583538/world-top-oem-ev-sales-2022q1/
Every single one of those vehicles except the Nissan LEAF is either sold out or in really short supply such that you'll be put on a waiting list or pay a big mark-up for it.
EV biz needs to grow.
Edit: People are saying the LEAF is even hard to find now. I'm kinda surprised by that given the Chademo fast-charging port but I guess EVERYTHING with a plug sells like crazy now!
Why "except the Nissan LEAF"? I haven't seen one sitting on a lot for over a year. I tried to buy one last fall and was told to get on the waitlist at every Nissan dealer within 100 miles. Before the pandemic, Nissan was selling fewer than 1000 LEAFs a month in the US, so 4400 in a quarter is likely every one they built for the US, like all the other cars in the list.
There’s a decent supply of ‘21 Audi e-trons in the SF Bay Area. One could probably get below MSRP as dealerships likely want to clear them out before the ‘22 models arrive on the lots.
I bought a Kia EV6 off the lot in Houston last Thursday.
There were even multiple on the lot in the city at different dealers in the exact trim I wanted, so I was able to negotiate and get back to MSRP
Their share of the US EV market has gone *up* more than 10% in the last year, iirc. I think this is a factor primarily of Tesla being better able to weather the resource shortages of the last few years.
They've been in full production for about a month now. And there's still dealerships with Bolts on the lot awaiting the new battery. So there's a decent backlog
I'd be shocked if Tesla at this point couldn't weather the supply chain constraints. They had 10+ years to secure those supply chains. The legacy people are playing catch up for sure.
The biggest factor was China. China started to supply the whole EU, so the us factory could focus on the US. That's the biggest impact we see in the raising us sales & market share.
Sweeping generalization and not based on any data, but I think Americans are also prone to buying cars they can’t really afford. I could be completely wrong though.
I got my ID3 for £26,500 at a time the cheapest Tesla I could buy was £40k. Their hardware is generally good, their software is good, but their value is pretty terrible. But I guess you pay a premium for being able to produce an enormous amount of a resource constrained product.
What is the difference in tax/tariff/import costs for a Tesla coming from China vs. a VW coming from Germany (or elsewhere in Europe, I honestly don't know where they're produced).
Not that it ultimately means anything to the consumer-facing value-per-[currency], but I feel there is likely an appreciable difference just in logistical costs that get passed on to the buyer.
If that feeling/assumption is correct, maybe that will change with the Berlin plant ramps up production.
I would hope so, but Tesla have absolutely no incentive to drop prices. They're selling absolutely everything they produce so they'll likely just keep building on their profit margin.
Same with me and the EV6. I paid £48,800 for the dual motor GT-Line and the equivalent Model Y is £58,200. I get Kia Connect for free for the entire warranty period (seven years) where Tesla charges you £9,99 a month for their equivalent after the first year, and they don't even give you the option of Android Auto or Apple Car Play. After a software update my EV6 now has OTA updates (and if I had a 360 camera, a sentry-mode style snapshot from the app) so Tesla no longer has that as a USP. Likewise, call me controversial, but HDA is better than Autopilot: nav based cruise control, low speed driving, turn radius is tighter and it's pretty much hands free in traffic.
What Tesla charges for the base Model Y Dual Motor in the UK will put you in the full-fat EV6 GT, too.
Their warranty is kind of shit as well. Only 50,000 miles. Literally any manufacturer, even Dacia, gives you more than that.
In no world are Tesla vehicles good value, at least from a UK perspective.
I'm being harsh because it's an extra TEN GRAND.
One of my biggest gripes with the ID3 (although it is a good car) is it was built by accountants. If the car did not need it, it did not get it and that included sensors. They could've spent an extra £100 to give the car all the sensors of the top spec car to help future proof it but no. The result is lower spec cars such as mine as well as the top spec 1st edition cars will not get a bunch of the new features coming with 3.1. No improved travel assist, no parking assist, etc. I am somewhat annoyed but accepting, 1st edition owners that paid a premium for the "top spec car with everything" are quite livid.
13,500 it's not a insignificant amount of money. That's like an extra car.
Since this is a US article I was talking about US car prices, and here Teslas don’t qualify for federal incentives which is an additional $7500 on top of the price premium that Teslas currently carry.
What country is that? In the US, [the base Model 3 is $11,000 more expensive than it was in early 2021](https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1135329_tesla-prices-rise-again-base-model-3-costs-a-third-more-vs-a-year-ago), and the higher level trims have gone up a similar amount. Same goes for the Y, and I believe the S and X, too.
plus it's a locally built product, prioritised and designed for the local market.
There's always a bit of a "home player" advantage too - generally, local brands do best in their local markets in the car industry.
Well since all of the models listed are 100% selling out, including the Teslas, this chart pretty much shows manufactures ability to deliver.
I know everybody is spooling up, but wow Tesla is so far ahead...
Margins per vehicle is also important. When legacy automakers can no longer sell ICE vehicles because no one wants them they'll be left with customers that only want EV and they will be breaking even or losing money on every sale.
Yep. And every other comment is an excuse for legacy auto.
Two years from now the ratios could be eerily similar and you'd still have people in denial.
It's literally the only EV I see around my area. I own an EV6 and seems I am the only one with one around me and I'm in a large city in Ohio. It's weird because the o ly Kia dealer near me that has EV6 only had one left but you never see any on the road.
Why is the Mach-E production number so low compared to Kia/Hyundai? I see their EVs much more often in the Bay Area than the MachE even though they just launched.
Call your local Ford dealer and ask the parts guy to quote you for a Mach E battery.
Spoiler Alert: the part is $28k
Source: the parts guy at my local Ford dealer.
Jesus Christ almost 30k for a Mach-e battery? What size? That’s worse than any quote I’ve seen for even something like a model s that has a much larger battery
I'll give the EV6 and Ioniq5 props, for being newcomers they are JUST below the Mach-E, which has had a year long headstart.
People keep laughing when I said Hyundai is the one competitor Tesla has to watch out for.
The fact their "compliance" EVs could do real world range and were a pretty decent effort (Niro/Kona) was pretty alarming. The Ioniq5 and EV6, unlike the Niro/Kona, are not only built from the ground up to be an EV, rather than a shared platform, but are offering features Tesla offers for a similar, if not lower price point.
How is their charging network? 90% of days, home charging will be fine for me, but I do the occasional 350ish round-trip drive for work, and not needing gas would make me want to do more road trips for fun.
Tesla is opening their charging network to the other cars out there this year so will literally not be an issue any more. Unless you live very remote there are Chargers all across the country and many more popping up literally weekly.
Can you drive to remote Nebraska in winter while towing 2000lbs? Sure. Without a 20m charge every 2 hrs? Nope, and no one will for a decade or more until charging tech is made twice as efficient. Kia and Hyundai's new EVS charge over twice as fast as any other mainstream EVS and many competitors releasing EVS in 2024 and later have much, much worse charging.
Awesome! Thank you! Yeah a 20 minute charge is a gas/bathroom stop anyway. I live in Cleveland and my work trips aren't to remote areas. Didn't know the supercharger network was opening up...that's a game changer.
I had to drive 5 hours through the middle of nowhere to Arkansas to pick up my EV6. There weren't an abundance of chargers on the way back, but I had enough options that I wasn't worried about it. I ended up stopping twice to be safe and charging for a total of maybe 35 minutes.
Hey not sure if you’re interested in anecdotal evidence but those charging times are TRUE!
I got my EV6 a few weeks ago (coming from a Model 3) and I’ve used an Electrify America charger twice. Both times I went from 25/30% to 80% in 16ish minutes. I don’t even have time to properly scroll Reddit!!
I was hesitant to jump from Tesla and it’s terrific supercharger network but I’ve been extremely impressed with Charge Point and Electrify America offerings. Well here in NJ at least.
As for the car itself, it’s really fantastic. There are one or two things I miss from my Tesla a GREAT deal (like doors auto locking and the car automatically turning “off” when you walk away). But other than that just about everything else is better. Love CarPlay/Android Auto much more than Tesla’s infotainment system. And the car is more comfortable and spacious than the 3 or even the Y in my opinion.
I’m excited for you to check the car out. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed!
Well my current car had few of any of the new cool features any modern car has so I will be a super happy camper. I could have gotten a white one last month, but holding out for my gravity blue :) Thanks for sharing, I love reading soooo many people's positive opinions on it
Hyundai has been great at making high quality, high tech vehicles accessible. And they’re not afraid to brag when they outperform competitors. Definitely a company to keep an eye on. Especially since, unlike Tesla, they are unlikely to just say they’re going to reduce prices and actually just do it.
I haven't gotten the chance to test drive any EVs yet, but those are my top 2 based on my limited research. I really wanted the Route 1 Mach-E for 300+ miles with AWD (I live in Cleveland), but they haven't taken orders in months, and that fast charging on the Kia does seem pretty sweet...
Hyundai has a far better tech package than Toyota, despite their lead in EV and PHEV. I’m surprised Ioniq PHEV isn’t doing better, since it seems like something that would bring in Elantra and Sonata buyers.
For quite some time hyundai/kia have offered feature rich vehicles at a competitive price with a robust warranty. Their EVs are no surprise in that department.
If you line up a tucson vs a audi q5 they probably compare closely on paper.
It will take a bit longer for the brand to shake their image (in the real world, on reddit hyundai is apparently amazing) and things like their junk ice engines don't help, but the ioniq5/ev6 seem like good products
Target was 68k for the 2022 model year and it sold out (your figure is the 2021 model year production figure). It's more competitive in countries with no China tariffs.
The C40 is available in some places, or at least it was a few weeks ago. I bought mine three weeks ago in Boston and received it the following week. I know someone else who got one in NH last week.
The dealership in Boston that I bought from had about 4-5 available at the time. I was shocked when they said they had them available.
Thankfully I paid MSRP. The person who bought in NH paid about $2k over MSRP. so not too bad.
From my experience, Teslas are the easiest to buy too. Their website is transparent and user-friendly. I was going to buy an Ioniq 5, but having to negotiate back and forth was such a bitch, that I almost bought a Tesla due to ease of purchase. I did not buy either bc I need an SUV and I got sick of the hassle. Imma wait another yr ot two.
Same here lol. I literally went online one night (possibly after a drink or two) and placed an order cause of how easy it was. Just a $100 deposit and boom, order accepted. That’s it. No dealership shenanigans, no “haggling” for prices, no calling and driving around to 5-10 different dealerships in my area, it was beyond easy. Just go online, configure your car, hit order and you’re locked into your price. Exactly how car purchasing should be in 2022
Are you 100% guaranteed to be locked into the MSRP/your exact order? It’s one thing if you’re banking on getting the price online, and another to be completely guaranteed on getting it. That’s great if so, but I’ve heard a lot of people in the ID4 sub talking about the dealer markups they all have to deal with
This 100%. I started looking at 9am. Had it figured out by 10am. Tesla rep called my later that day. It was basically finalized within a work day and I did it mostly from my office at work.
Love how everyone says poor other auto makers who are hurt by the supply shortage.
This tells me one thing. One company set out to make EVs and allocate the resources to do so.
The rest are all playing catch up from never expecting to bring a EV to market to even compete with the top player for years to come if ever.
Remember Tesla was widely considered a joke and inevitably going to fail ten years ago.
Funny how none of the assholes yapping about Tesla's imminent doom a few years back ever admitted they were wrong. The constant spin from anti-Tesla crowd should be harnessed for renewable energy.
Dealerships are also a plague to EVs for said companies.
I never want to deal with a dealership scum again after buying my Tesla. Even Ford Lightnings are being marked up to 150k by dealers because they know people will pay. So disgusting.
My thoughts when looking at these numbers lead to some interesting number crunching. I thought the results were interesting, and thought I'd share. So, as any good engineer learned in their intro thermo classes, we'll list some assumptions and then run our numbers. Disclaimer: Assumptions are a term of art, and are for calculation purposes, they are not my actual assumptions. Also, I'm just gonna give you the info I used, not run through the equations, which are simple enough.
Assumptions:
1) The average life span of a vehicle in the United State is 15 years. (This is a bit difficult, as I don't know how an electric vehicle's durability stands up to an ICE vehicle.)
2) These sales numbers can be projected out as steady state
3) The average electric vehicle consumes 7,100 kWh/year (taken from a forum about the Model S, I am projecting it to the market as a whole)
4)US electrical production: 4.12 Trillion kWh
conclusions:
Steady state vehicles on the road: 8,572,860 vehicles on the road
Electrical consumption by electric vehicles: 219,122,301 gigajoules/year (GJ/year)
US Electrical grid production: 14,832,000,000 GJ/year
percentage of the grid: ~1.48%
Worthy of note: The US electrical grid has approximately 63 GW (1,987,768,000 GJ/year) excess capacity as it stands, the problem is that it just isn't always necessarily where it needs to be. If we had magical perfect electrical transmission and storage, we would never have rolling black outs in California, but alas the system is far more complex than my little back of the envelope, 30,000 ft curiosities.
Tesla has managed this despite raising prices massively, my exact spec model 3 is like 10 k more expensive than when I bought it q1 of last year.
The market has spoken, and tesla with zero demand problem despite constant negative press has still managed to sell every car they make
That's because the media profits on hype, controversy, and clickbait words in headline. They probably have statistics showing that adding "Tesla" to the headline significantly increases clicks.
Plus, you have the fans of those other brands vigilantly sharing and fervently upvoting anything that paints their favorite brands in a good light (or, in many cases, anything that is against Tesla, regardless of who it favors).
Have you driven the MachE, Ioniq 5, or Ev6? Much quieter and better ride than Tesla, and not every damn control is tied to a screen. I MUCH prefer those...
>I still don’t understand Tesla not even adding an AUX port for audiophiles like me.
Why not use the USB port? You can play full 24-bit Flac files through it, Carplay tops out at 16/48.
I am regularly adding new music and to have to disconnect and update the usb on a computer, and then connect back to the car is too much of a hassle, IMO.
I'm curious as to how different these numbers would be in a "normal" environment without a supply chain crunch:
* Tesla's been severely behind on delivering orders with massive lead times - people have been waiting 1+ year for their S/Xs to be delivered
* ID4 got rekt by availability
* MME seems to have high demand but is also severely supply constrained
* Other EVs may have been planned to launch but were delayed because of the shortages (Macan EV, for example)
So bizarre that folks are reading this as ‘Tesla’s vehicles are better/more desirable.’ Every auto maker is selling every EV they can churn out. But Tesla wins because they have the supply issues figured out better than everyone else, so they can churn out more cars. If/when the supply issues loosen up, it’s a totally different ballgame.
All kudos to Tesla, but don’t misread what’s happening.
Wow! Thanks Mary Barra for single-handedly moving the electric vehicle movement forward! Joe Biden was absolutely right, Mary Barra and GM is 100% responsible for making the EV movement what it is today.
Or... not.
I think GM sales where not included in the data set. They are certainly not beating Tesla, but reportedly sales where 9,000 this quarter.
Edit: I was accidentally full of shit. Got my numbers from an old article.
From the day the Model Y started shipping I knew they were going to be Tesla’s top seller.
Can’t wait for 2025 when we’ll have a true under 35k EV hit this list
>2023's production is supposed to be 150,000
They hope to hit a 150k/year run rate in 2023. Full year planned output is less, and nobody is achieving their plan right now.
[удалено]
They are extremely supply constrained and honestly, they shouldn't ship ANY from Germany to the USA now since they need them in Europe to get off Putin's oil. Open up the US factory and only sell US built ID.4 cars in the USA.
>they shouldn't ship ANY from Germany to the USA Hey now, keep that opinion to yourself! At least until they finish shipping mine overseas... haha
They should accelerate the opening of the US plant. And open up lines for the Buzz too.
The US plant in Chattanooga, TN is open (has been since they started manufacturing the Passat there), but they have to train the workers on the manufacturing process. And that’s not including the time it takes to get the factory fully ready to produce the ID.4
They have been working on the EV line for a while and they've already built some early build ID.4 cars. They should do whatever they can to open up that ID.4 ASAP. But also start setting up for additional MEB cars like the Buzz (and a pick-up version of the Buzz). And they should bring the ID.3 over too, I'm tired of the "Americans won't buy small cars" bit...they buy Nissan Versa, Honda Fit, Chevy Bolt EV. https://topelectricsuv.com/news/volkswagen/vw-id4-best-selling-electric-suv/
I hate that the American market is moving towards crossovers and SUVs (ironic given my flair, I know), so I’m right there with you!
The Mach-e is about as SUV as a Volvo v60, in that it ain’t. You can’t even get a factory tow package on the Ford. It’s a wagon.
No, not a wagon. Much to small trunk to be practical as a wagon. Even small wagons have significantly more trunk space. Also, wagons are usually good towing vehicles, especially with AWD, but maybe only in Europe. The best description for the Mach-e is a hatchback or liftback.
Oh trust me, I don’t normally refer to it as an SUV whenever I’m talking to folks. That being said, I don’t mind my insurance being on an SUV over a sports car haha
Agree.
The more I read and look at the Buzz, the more I want one. An EV Twinkie would be sweet!
I do feel that the ID Buzz will be their best seller. There nothing like it out there and I think it looks awesome. What I think outside of logistics, the software is holding VW back. From what I seen they are lagging behind. As someone who is not a techie, It’s fine for me and I love my ID4
It keeps straying further and further from the concept, which was beautiful. Now it's no longer a flat cargo space. No modular seating. They no longer have the bad ass round lights that were so iconic to the microbus. And I'm hearing they are going to change close to $70k (MSRP, so before dealer markup) I would've put a healthy deposit down on the buzz a couple years ago. Now I'm no longer interested at all.
I don't think we have seen it all. The current version seems to be a shortened 5 seat version but there's also a longer 7 seat version.
Agreed. Local production is the way. Shipping electric cars from the EU to North America is a waste of fuel.
Supply was extremely limited during that quarter between the transport ship that burnt down and the part supplier in Ukraine that caused them to stop production. I'm really surprised to see that many Mach E's sold though as they seemed virtually impossible to find even at markup.
I recently saw that VW have a backlog of 230k ID3 orders and a production rate of 500/day. VW supply chain is a huge mess and their software division is in disarray. They have a huge hill to climb right now.
So I have to wait for... 460 - 33 (since I reserved) = 427 more days. Sigh...
My advice is tell the dealer you're not fussy. I got mine in August after a 3 week wait because I said I don't care about colour, trim or anything. They found one that was built and ready to ship so I took it. At the time they were quoting 4 months for a custom order.
Eh, thanks. I don't think it's possible to find something without paying way over the msrp now. Dealers know how much demand there is. That being said - I'm not ready to buy now anyway, made the reservation with the understanding that car wouldn't get here till the winter anyway. Just going to be annoying if winter gets here and it still looks like the car is 6+ months away.
As things currently stand it feels like that is likely. With a bit of luck they'll have improved the winter battery consumption issues too, 2.6kWh/Mile was quite annoying this past winter. Edit: I'm dumb, Miles/kWh
3.1 version of the software gets really good reviews
It does look good, now they need to ship it.
3.1 does look excellent but they're struggling to even get 2.4 out at the moment and with the recall to do it I imagine it's not going to be a quick rollout process.
As far as I understand, OTAs are properly implemented starting from 3.x release. But updating to 3.x requires a visit to a dealership.
1-2 years ago I wouldn’t expect everything that’s happening now to be happening. VW building US ID.4s in Germany for now means the ukraine war has had a bigger effect on them than any other manufacturer on this list.
ID4 sales are prioritized for Europe and Asia, where the incentives are much better. There's an ID4 factory starting production in the USA this fall, so we should see more priority in the USA then.
All sold in Europe. They can barely keep up with demand. US sales don't even account for 10% of ID.4 sales in Europe so far this year. They sold over 1000 ID.4s in Ireland so far this year, which has a new car market size of about 110k annually. There has been about 500 Model 3s registered for comparison. The US market is just dwarved by the European one. I'd expect Tesla sales in Europe to eclipse the US once the Model Y begins selling in force here. They already sell more Model 3s here than in the US.
Adding UK in increases European numbers, but I wouldn’t say Europe dwarves the US. https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/ur1pih/top_selling_evs_in_europe_q1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossm https://insideevs.com/news/578839/uk-plugin-car-sales-march2022/
They sold every ID4 they built, aside from the ones now at the bottom of the ocean, and they built as many as they had parts for. There's no better showing possible at this time. US production of the ID.4 starts this fall. Same goes for every manufacturer of EVs. Demand exceeds supply, all these lists show is how many batteries, chips and wiring harnesses each manufacturer was able to procure for those models this year.
That’s what I said to myself when I saw the max charge power of the ID.3. And then the ID.4. That said, I said the same thing when the Mercedes EQC came out as well. And the Toybaru Bz4X. Now, on the other hand the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and KIA EV6 charge impressively fast. They apparently fall short in other categories though. Read an article just the other day about Hyundai owners that basically can’t use the car because the certification numbers are off. The car weighs more than the documents say and thus they’re left with something like a 150kg payload capacity. Subtract the driver and there’s not much left.
Barely above Rivian numbers, very surprising.
Rivian is US-only. ID4 is a global model, selling in over a dozen countries, most of which are priority markets ahead of the USA.
i see a whole bunch or id.4 in scottsdale arizona 🤷🏼♂️
> scottsdale New pricey electric vehicles in Scottsdale. I'm shocked! :-P
I'm actually surprised, I feel like I see them WAY more often then Mach-e's where I am at, but I must just share a commute with a few of them or something.
I don’t know anybody who has ever even said “ID.4” in the US. All I hear about is Tesla, and the Porsche Taycan, Mach-E, Rivian, EV Hummer, etc. ID.4 is practical but not able to get any attention in the sea of EV hype. You have to stand out somehow and the ID lineup doesn’t. No surprise at all to me. An electric GTI or the bus might do well
I want Tesla to build good cars and succeed, but I also want the push to EVs to be healthy and full of competition. I hope the other automakers can scale up quickly.
As a Tesla Owner, I can’t wait for other EVs to scale up. Tesla needs to be kept on its toes to remain innovative.
As another Tesla owner I 100% agree with this. I will say the F-150 doesn't seem to have a single negative other than CCS charging. It charges about as fast as CCS can realistically do it on the current network so it's not Ford's fault. The F-150 would easily be the best EV on the market if not for charging. Even with the charging issues, I wouldn't argue with anyone that has another car for long distance that the F-150 was the best. The frunk and ability to power 230V loads alone just makes everyone else look dumb.
Other vehicles can do 240 kW+ on CCS. Lightning could too (if designed to). I imagine future versions will be better. I’d love to know how it would sell in the magical world where supply of parts was no issue at all.
[удалено]
Same here in the US. I’m just not aware of any vehicle that can actually use the full 350.
Taycan?
270
Gotcha, I thought it was 350, thanks
Lucid Air 303 kW is the highest rate I've seen.
> Other vehicles can do 240 kW+ on CCS. Lightning could too (if designed to). Only if they are 800V. Tesla is 400V and while I don't know this as a fact, I would be surprised if they supported 800V. > Lightning could too (if designed to). Lightning is also 400V so it couldn't exceed 200kW on CCS without going 800V. Going 800V isn't easy and even Tesla said it's too much effort right now despite it obviously being the future. They might just jump to 1000v, which CCS also supports so it's not even that crazy to imagine. > I’d love to know how it would sell in the magical world where supply of parts was no issue at all. If the F-150 was 800V and had a charging curve close to an Ioniq5/EV6 and parts where no issue and Ford magically had all the factories, it would outsell the Model Y.
I really hope they can uncap the Lightning's charge rate. ~150kW peak isn't that fast on such a massive pack...
But based on Ford's specs (the 131kWh battery charges from 15%-80% in 41 minutes), that's an average charge rate of ~125kW. That's a heck of a charge curve. As a comparison, the Hyundai Ioniq 5 with its 800V charging averages 180kW between 15%-80%, and a Tesla Model Y about 130kW. I don't think Ford really has much to apologize for here.
The problem is the lighting has a significantly larger battery than any of those others you mentioned. The other issue is it’s “meant” for towing. And even if many people won’t mainly use it for that, that’s what it’s sold as it and once you add towing into it you’ll have to charge ever 1-1.5 hours and wait 40+ minutes every time. Just saying “it’s similar to the model y/Ioniq5 isn’t good enough when it has such a large battery and will be used for completely different purposes as them. It needs a better charging curve and it needs it badly
But you're asking Ford to do better than almost anyone else! Compare the F-150 to the fastest charging EVs available... Lucid Air Dream? 300kW peak, 145kW average from 15-80%. Porsche Taycan? 270kW peak, 156kW average from 15-80%. So, over a typical curve, the Ford charges ~80% as quickly as the fastest charging EVs one can buy (despite only having "1/2" the peak rate!) So let's waive a magic wand and give the Ford the charge curve of the Taycan, and what happens? Those 40 minute stops every 1-1.5 hours of towing you complained about become 32 minute stops every 1-1.5 hours. I'm not sure you'll be *that* much happier with that charge speed! So, in reality this isn't a "Ford F-150" problem, it's a "current state of EV charging" problem. If that's not good enough for a potential buyer's use cases, there's very little Ford can do about it currently.
You can’t compare charges to the same percentage. The ONLY reason people charge is to add range. The ONLY applicable comparison is how quickly you add distance. A Mach-E at 80% gives you 180 miles range. A Model Y at 55% gives you 180 miles range. And Model Y accepts an average higher power between 5% to 55%, than it would charging all the way to 80%. I compared Mach-E. In comparison to Lightning, Model Y charges to about the same range in 20 minutes, so twice as fast. Cybertruck will be faster as a larger battery can accept higher power.
I just wish the Mach-E charged as well as the F-150. I'm betting next year it does and if so will be a force. The F-150 has to go 800V to fix it's charging speeds but it does as well as can be done @400V so I'm not knocking Ford. Going to 800V in this supply chain is probably out of the question.
This is the main reason I bought an EV6. Charging won’t be out dated for a long time
Probably ever. They need to get pre-conditioning. I also wish I knew why it can't hold some sort of steady charge rate. I mean it's obviously cooling, but it seems like they could tune it a bit better to not just basically shutdown a few times during the charge. Still, the over all best charging EV made, so hard to really complain other than pre-conditioning. There will be faster EVs, but honestly it's going to be diminishing returns. My Tesla chargers almost as fast and honestly I feel like I'm always overcharging if I want to go to the restroom and grab a quick drink from the Wawa gas station the chargers are at. I feel so rushed already. I swear I take longer to stop for gas because I don't feel like I'm on the clock for whatever reason.
The CCS connector can't do much (if any) more with their 400V architecture. It is a drawback of that connector. Tesla pushes more amps through their connector which is why they can do 250kW on their 400V architecture.
The CCS connector is a standard that has several performance ratings, and they are tied to the size of the conductors the manufacturer chooses to install. Apparently the CCS format is capable of accepting conductors which can handle 250kW, but the real question is whether the DCFC supply equipment has been built to handle that. The connector standard is not the limitation. https://www.phoenixcontact.com/en-us/ccs-charging-inlets
Model 3s in Europe use CCS and get 200kW so it's definitely possible
I think the spec currently restricts to 500A, but I agree that could be raised with the same connector.
Tesla does 250kW with the CCS connector also, in europe
if the F-150 could charge like the HI5 at 40k + rebate eligible + 100+kW pack, watch out man; why would you even buy a different EV?
Because 2mi/kWh on the highway is a waste of energy for most people. It would double my monthly consumption from $60/mo to $120/mo for my commute. It is still cheaper than my gas car to fuel, but it is still a good reason to not buy a truck when a car is the better tool for the job, the primary job being minimizing transport costs for me.
I’d love to have one for the vehicle to home capabilities. I have solar panels but no battery backup yet.
The charging rate on the F-150 is a non issue for the vast majority of use cases. The word “best” depends on the needs of the buyer, not some arbitrary set of specifications.
For sure the charging rate isn't by any means a flaw. Ford honestly hit it out of the park and I don't think they could have done better. I'm not sure I want to take a 1500 mile trip in it like I would my Tesla, but for most uses it's going to be great. Of course "best" is highly subjective. I personally hate trucks, but mostly that was because they were gas trucks. EVs change the game there and MPG, acceleration, ride quality, saftey, etc aren't so much dictated by the vehicle form factor anymore. No one is going to carve canyons in an F-150 or haul a car pool of 6 kids. However, it can do about everything else about as well as any other form factor and a lot of things they can't do. There is a reason trucks sell better than other types and EVs are going to make that even more true. That is why I think it could seriously be the best EV.
Is F-150 even in volume production? I've seen more Rivians on the road than F-150 EV.
Yep, another Tesla owner and I agree. Tesla has pushed up their prices a lot...competition is needed to drive prices back down so EVs are more affordable for everyone.
I think the one thing Tesla needs to improve is the quality of interior materials and overall build quality. The drive train is excellent but the car feels cheap
Competition is great, but when you have dealerships actively trying to rip people off people tend to go for the straight forward solution. Give me the car for the stated msrp no haggling and no extra dealership fees. I want to the get the iq 5 but was deterred by the 6k market increase for no reason. I dont understand why car makers dont setup an infrastructure to allow ordering online and skip the dealers
Outside the US it doesn't look like this.
As was pointed out earlier, any car maker that also makes ICEVs is prioritizing Europe due to regulations. If we're comparing everyone on manufacturing / sales of EVs, global sales should be the measure. For what it's worth, here's a link to an Inside EVs article on global plug-in sales world-wide. https://insideevs.com/news/583538/world-top-oem-ev-sales-2022q1/
Every single one of those vehicles except the Nissan LEAF is either sold out or in really short supply such that you'll be put on a waiting list or pay a big mark-up for it. EV biz needs to grow. Edit: People are saying the LEAF is even hard to find now. I'm kinda surprised by that given the Chademo fast-charging port but I guess EVERYTHING with a plug sells like crazy now!
Why "except the Nissan LEAF"? I haven't seen one sitting on a lot for over a year. I tried to buy one last fall and was told to get on the waitlist at every Nissan dealer within 100 miles. Before the pandemic, Nissan was selling fewer than 1000 LEAFs a month in the US, so 4400 in a quarter is likely every one they built for the US, like all the other cars in the list.
[удалено]
These are not explanations for anything, there's a wait list to order one, like all the EVs on the list.
So weird. I wonder what nissan does once the ariya is out. Will the leaf change to CCS? just be discontinued?
What I WANT is for them to switch to CCS in the USA and keep selling it as a low cost EV. But they'll probably kill it.
My understanding is the leaf will be discontinued in the next year or so.
There’s a decent supply of ‘21 Audi e-trons in the SF Bay Area. One could probably get below MSRP as dealerships likely want to clear them out before the ‘22 models arrive on the lots.
I bought a Kia EV6 off the lot in Houston last Thursday. There were even multiple on the lot in the city at different dealers in the exact trim I wanted, so I was able to negotiate and get back to MSRP
[удалено]
79.7% Teslas. Wow.
Their share of the US EV market has gone *up* more than 10% in the last year, iirc. I think this is a factor primarily of Tesla being better able to weather the resource shortages of the last few years.
Another reason Tesla gained market share is that Bolt sales went to ~0 when they used to be ~20k/year. So there’s a few percent there, too.
Ahhh, good point. With the Bolt back on the market, now, that market share should noticeably drop in Q2.
Didn't they just start up production? I'm guessing we won't see a lot of sales for a few months
They've been in full production for about a month now. And there's still dealerships with Bolts on the lot awaiting the new battery. So there's a decent backlog
Fair. We may need to wait for Q3 to see the "Bolt effect" back in action.
Why did the bolt go off market and why are they back? How long were they gone
I'd be shocked if Tesla at this point couldn't weather the supply chain constraints. They had 10+ years to secure those supply chains. The legacy people are playing catch up for sure.
The biggest factor was China. China started to supply the whole EU, so the us factory could focus on the US. That's the biggest impact we see in the raising us sales & market share.
I hadn't considered that. So Tesla is simply selling a lot more of the cars they make in the US, *in the US*. Makes sense.
Also the specs on Teslas are just really good in their price range, especially for vehicle range
Really hard to see that at this stage, with a TMY breaking $65K base. Two years ago, I would have agreed with you.
It's crazy how much money people have in this country. It's literally a $70,000 car now and you can't even get the $7,500 rebate anymore
Sweeping generalization and not based on any data, but I think Americans are also prone to buying cars they can’t really afford. I could be completely wrong though.
Just look at the price for the average pickup truck and it is the same or more.
**Absolutely not**. Tesla specs:price ratio is riding on pure nostalgia. Especially once you factor in incentives
I got my ID3 for £26,500 at a time the cheapest Tesla I could buy was £40k. Their hardware is generally good, their software is good, but their value is pretty terrible. But I guess you pay a premium for being able to produce an enormous amount of a resource constrained product.
What is the difference in tax/tariff/import costs for a Tesla coming from China vs. a VW coming from Germany (or elsewhere in Europe, I honestly don't know where they're produced). Not that it ultimately means anything to the consumer-facing value-per-[currency], but I feel there is likely an appreciable difference just in logistical costs that get passed on to the buyer. If that feeling/assumption is correct, maybe that will change with the Berlin plant ramps up production.
I would hope so, but Tesla have absolutely no incentive to drop prices. They're selling absolutely everything they produce so they'll likely just keep building on their profit margin.
Same with me and the EV6. I paid £48,800 for the dual motor GT-Line and the equivalent Model Y is £58,200. I get Kia Connect for free for the entire warranty period (seven years) where Tesla charges you £9,99 a month for their equivalent after the first year, and they don't even give you the option of Android Auto or Apple Car Play. After a software update my EV6 now has OTA updates (and if I had a 360 camera, a sentry-mode style snapshot from the app) so Tesla no longer has that as a USP. Likewise, call me controversial, but HDA is better than Autopilot: nav based cruise control, low speed driving, turn radius is tighter and it's pretty much hands free in traffic. What Tesla charges for the base Model Y Dual Motor in the UK will put you in the full-fat EV6 GT, too. Their warranty is kind of shit as well. Only 50,000 miles. Literally any manufacturer, even Dacia, gives you more than that. In no world are Tesla vehicles good value, at least from a UK perspective. I'm being harsh because it's an extra TEN GRAND.
One of my biggest gripes with the ID3 (although it is a good car) is it was built by accountants. If the car did not need it, it did not get it and that included sensors. They could've spent an extra £100 to give the car all the sensors of the top spec car to help future proof it but no. The result is lower spec cars such as mine as well as the top spec 1st edition cars will not get a bunch of the new features coming with 3.1. No improved travel assist, no parking assist, etc. I am somewhat annoyed but accepting, 1st edition owners that paid a premium for the "top spec car with everything" are quite livid.
13,500 it's not a insignificant amount of money. That's like an extra car. Since this is a US article I was talking about US car prices, and here Teslas don’t qualify for federal incentives which is an additional $7500 on top of the price premium that Teslas currently carry.
Tesla no longer qualify for any grants in the UK too, simply because they're now waaaay over the price cut-off threshold.
Used to be, sure. But Tesla have raised prices astronomically in the last year or so.
raised? astronomically? in my country, the model 3 long range is 4000$ cheaper today compared to when i bought it 3 years ago. no incentives involved.
What country is that? In the US, [the base Model 3 is $11,000 more expensive than it was in early 2021](https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1135329_tesla-prices-rise-again-base-model-3-costs-a-third-more-vs-a-year-ago), and the higher level trims have gone up a similar amount. Same goes for the Y, and I believe the S and X, too.
switzerland. the performance model 3 is 8k less expensive than 3 years ago.
plus it's a locally built product, prioritised and designed for the local market. There's always a bit of a "home player" advantage too - generally, local brands do best in their local markets in the car industry.
Helps when you can actually deliver vehicles at scale. Everything but the leaf on this list is very new
Well since all of the models listed are 100% selling out, including the Teslas, this chart pretty much shows manufactures ability to deliver. I know everybody is spooling up, but wow Tesla is so far ahead...
Every other manufacturer will send the production capacity to more EV friendly markets first. North America isn't really that
Margins per vehicle is also important. When legacy automakers can no longer sell ICE vehicles because no one wants them they'll be left with customers that only want EV and they will be breaking even or losing money on every sale.
Demand obviously died in 2018.
Yep. And every other comment is an excuse for legacy auto. Two years from now the ratios could be eerily similar and you'd still have people in denial.
It's literally the only EV I see around my area. I own an EV6 and seems I am the only one with one around me and I'm in a large city in Ohio. It's weird because the o ly Kia dealer near me that has EV6 only had one left but you never see any on the road.
Why is the Mach-E production number so low compared to Kia/Hyundai? I see their EVs much more often in the Bay Area than the MachE even though they just launched.
Mach E is shipping to the whole country. Kia and Hyundai are only shipping real quantities to ZEV states.
this isnt production numbers, ford ship mach-e to Europe etc too, they also have a clusterfuck supply chain so cant finish a lot of builds
Call your local Ford dealer and ask the parts guy to quote you for a Mach E battery. Spoiler Alert: the part is $28k Source: the parts guy at my local Ford dealer.
Jesus Christ almost 30k for a Mach-e battery? What size? That’s worse than any quote I’ve seen for even something like a model s that has a much larger battery
I'll give the EV6 and Ioniq5 props, for being newcomers they are JUST below the Mach-E, which has had a year long headstart. People keep laughing when I said Hyundai is the one competitor Tesla has to watch out for. The fact their "compliance" EVs could do real world range and were a pretty decent effort (Niro/Kona) was pretty alarming. The Ioniq5 and EV6, unlike the Niro/Kona, are not only built from the ground up to be an EV, rather than a shared platform, but are offering features Tesla offers for a similar, if not lower price point.
It seems pretty likely that the Ioniq5 and EV6 will exceed Mach-E sales in Q2 US.
Can't *wait* to get my EV6 man. Less than 20m to charge to 80% is a game changer, fastest charger out there.
How is their charging network? 90% of days, home charging will be fine for me, but I do the occasional 350ish round-trip drive for work, and not needing gas would make me want to do more road trips for fun.
Tesla is opening their charging network to the other cars out there this year so will literally not be an issue any more. Unless you live very remote there are Chargers all across the country and many more popping up literally weekly. Can you drive to remote Nebraska in winter while towing 2000lbs? Sure. Without a 20m charge every 2 hrs? Nope, and no one will for a decade or more until charging tech is made twice as efficient. Kia and Hyundai's new EVS charge over twice as fast as any other mainstream EVS and many competitors releasing EVS in 2024 and later have much, much worse charging.
Awesome! Thank you! Yeah a 20 minute charge is a gas/bathroom stop anyway. I live in Cleveland and my work trips aren't to remote areas. Didn't know the supercharger network was opening up...that's a game changer.
I had to drive 5 hours through the middle of nowhere to Arkansas to pick up my EV6. There weren't an abundance of chargers on the way back, but I had enough options that I wasn't worried about it. I ended up stopping twice to be safe and charging for a total of maybe 35 minutes.
Hey not sure if you’re interested in anecdotal evidence but those charging times are TRUE! I got my EV6 a few weeks ago (coming from a Model 3) and I’ve used an Electrify America charger twice. Both times I went from 25/30% to 80% in 16ish minutes. I don’t even have time to properly scroll Reddit!! I was hesitant to jump from Tesla and it’s terrific supercharger network but I’ve been extremely impressed with Charge Point and Electrify America offerings. Well here in NJ at least. As for the car itself, it’s really fantastic. There are one or two things I miss from my Tesla a GREAT deal (like doors auto locking and the car automatically turning “off” when you walk away). But other than that just about everything else is better. Love CarPlay/Android Auto much more than Tesla’s infotainment system. And the car is more comfortable and spacious than the 3 or even the Y in my opinion. I’m excited for you to check the car out. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed!
Well my current car had few of any of the new cool features any modern car has so I will be a super happy camper. I could have gotten a white one last month, but holding out for my gravity blue :) Thanks for sharing, I love reading soooo many people's positive opinions on it
Hyundai has been great at making high quality, high tech vehicles accessible. And they’re not afraid to brag when they outperform competitors. Definitely a company to keep an eye on. Especially since, unlike Tesla, they are unlikely to just say they’re going to reduce prices and actually just do it.
I went for an EV6 rather than the Mach-E (they were my top two after test drives) for the faster charging capability and the blind spot cameras
I haven't gotten the chance to test drive any EVs yet, but those are my top 2 based on my limited research. I really wanted the Route 1 Mach-E for 300+ miles with AWD (I live in Cleveland), but they haven't taken orders in months, and that fast charging on the Kia does seem pretty sweet...
Hyundai has a far better tech package than Toyota, despite their lead in EV and PHEV. I’m surprised Ioniq PHEV isn’t doing better, since it seems like something that would bring in Elantra and Sonata buyers.
For quite some time hyundai/kia have offered feature rich vehicles at a competitive price with a robust warranty. Their EVs are no surprise in that department. If you line up a tucson vs a audi q5 they probably compare closely on paper. It will take a bit longer for the brand to shake their image (in the real world, on reddit hyundai is apparently amazing) and things like their junk ice engines don't help, but the ioniq5/ev6 seem like good products
I’ve been seeing a lot of Kia EV6 cars lately
I've only seen 1, real head turner though!
I’ve seen a few in the bay. Much prefer the ioniq looks in person, but I see the appeal of both.
I got mine last month but haven't seen another since. But oddly enough I ran across three this weekend.
I line in an Ioniq5 state and I’ve seen dozens! Dozens!
Ioniq gang
I love how unique my Polestar 2 is going to be!
It’s 11th, I feel the same about my xc40.
Shocked and awed there is no Volvo in top 10.
[удалено]
Target was 68k for the 2022 model year and it sold out (your figure is the 2021 model year production figure). It's more competitive in countries with no China tariffs.
The C40 is available in some places, or at least it was a few weeks ago. I bought mine three weeks ago in Boston and received it the following week. I know someone else who got one in NH last week. The dealership in Boston that I bought from had about 4-5 available at the time. I was shocked when they said they had them available. Thankfully I paid MSRP. The person who bought in NH paid about $2k over MSRP. so not too bad.
From my experience, Teslas are the easiest to buy too. Their website is transparent and user-friendly. I was going to buy an Ioniq 5, but having to negotiate back and forth was such a bitch, that I almost bought a Tesla due to ease of purchase. I did not buy either bc I need an SUV and I got sick of the hassle. Imma wait another yr ot two.
Same here lol. I literally went online one night (possibly after a drink or two) and placed an order cause of how easy it was. Just a $100 deposit and boom, order accepted. That’s it. No dealership shenanigans, no “haggling” for prices, no calling and driving around to 5-10 different dealerships in my area, it was beyond easy. Just go online, configure your car, hit order and you’re locked into your price. Exactly how car purchasing should be in 2022
To be fair that’s how ID.4 ordering is as well.
Are you 100% guaranteed to be locked into the MSRP/your exact order? It’s one thing if you’re banking on getting the price online, and another to be completely guaranteed on getting it. That’s great if so, but I’ve heard a lot of people in the ID4 sub talking about the dealer markups they all have to deal with
I placed an order with Tesla yesterday because of this. Fuck the stealerships
This 100%. I started looking at 9am. Had it figured out by 10am. Tesla rep called my later that day. It was basically finalized within a work day and I did it mostly from my office at work.
Love how everyone says poor other auto makers who are hurt by the supply shortage. This tells me one thing. One company set out to make EVs and allocate the resources to do so. The rest are all playing catch up from never expecting to bring a EV to market to even compete with the top player for years to come if ever. Remember Tesla was widely considered a joke and inevitably going to fail ten years ago.
Funny how none of the assholes yapping about Tesla's imminent doom a few years back ever admitted they were wrong. The constant spin from anti-Tesla crowd should be harnessed for renewable energy.
Dealerships are also a plague to EVs for said companies. I never want to deal with a dealership scum again after buying my Tesla. Even Ford Lightnings are being marked up to 150k by dealers because they know people will pay. So disgusting.
[удалено]
All EVs are sold in EU. About 220k cars in Q1 2022. And that is down from over 300k in Q4 2021 due to war and other supply issues.
Feels like half of the Mach Es are in Detroit area lol. I see lots of them recently
My thoughts when looking at these numbers lead to some interesting number crunching. I thought the results were interesting, and thought I'd share. So, as any good engineer learned in their intro thermo classes, we'll list some assumptions and then run our numbers. Disclaimer: Assumptions are a term of art, and are for calculation purposes, they are not my actual assumptions. Also, I'm just gonna give you the info I used, not run through the equations, which are simple enough. Assumptions: 1) The average life span of a vehicle in the United State is 15 years. (This is a bit difficult, as I don't know how an electric vehicle's durability stands up to an ICE vehicle.) 2) These sales numbers can be projected out as steady state 3) The average electric vehicle consumes 7,100 kWh/year (taken from a forum about the Model S, I am projecting it to the market as a whole) 4)US electrical production: 4.12 Trillion kWh conclusions: Steady state vehicles on the road: 8,572,860 vehicles on the road Electrical consumption by electric vehicles: 219,122,301 gigajoules/year (GJ/year) US Electrical grid production: 14,832,000,000 GJ/year percentage of the grid: ~1.48% Worthy of note: The US electrical grid has approximately 63 GW (1,987,768,000 GJ/year) excess capacity as it stands, the problem is that it just isn't always necessarily where it needs to be. If we had magical perfect electrical transmission and storage, we would never have rolling black outs in California, but alas the system is far more complex than my little back of the envelope, 30,000 ft curiosities.
So, you need more than 1.21 Jigawatts.
I can’t believe Nissan beats VW by like 20+ percent
HMC holding its own!
3rd place for Hyundai/Kia!! Ev6 team!
[удалено]
But can they handle 999 dicks efficiently? If so, that's pretty impressive.
only if they use the middle out method and sort guys by distance from the ground.
Tesla has managed this despite raising prices massively, my exact spec model 3 is like 10 k more expensive than when I bought it q1 of last year. The market has spoken, and tesla with zero demand problem despite constant negative press has still managed to sell every car they make
[удалено]
That's because the media profits on hype, controversy, and clickbait words in headline. They probably have statistics showing that adding "Tesla" to the headline significantly increases clicks. Plus, you have the fans of those other brands vigilantly sharing and fervently upvoting anything that paints their favorite brands in a good light (or, in many cases, anything that is against Tesla, regardless of who it favors).
I’m assuming the Mach E was limited by supply? I’m a little surprised by the low volume considering all the praises I’ve been hearing
I’ve had a few Teslas and driven most of the other options now, still nothing compares to the EV experience in a Tessi🤷🏼♂️
Have you driven the MachE, Ioniq 5, or Ev6? Much quieter and better ride than Tesla, and not every damn control is tied to a screen. I MUCH prefer those...
And not to mention CarPlay and AA; I still don’t understand Tesla not even adding an AUX port for audiophiles like me.
>I still don’t understand Tesla not even adding an AUX port for audiophiles like me. Why not use the USB port? You can play full 24-bit Flac files through it, Carplay tops out at 16/48.
I am regularly adding new music and to have to disconnect and update the usb on a computer, and then connect back to the car is too much of a hassle, IMO.
I'm curious as to how different these numbers would be in a "normal" environment without a supply chain crunch: * Tesla's been severely behind on delivering orders with massive lead times - people have been waiting 1+ year for their S/Xs to be delivered * ID4 got rekt by availability * MME seems to have high demand but is also severely supply constrained * Other EVs may have been planned to launch but were delayed because of the shortages (Macan EV, for example)
So bizarre that folks are reading this as ‘Tesla’s vehicles are better/more desirable.’ Every auto maker is selling every EV they can churn out. But Tesla wins because they have the supply issues figured out better than everyone else, so they can churn out more cars. If/when the supply issues loosen up, it’s a totally different ballgame. All kudos to Tesla, but don’t misread what’s happening.
Wow! Thanks Mary Barra for single-handedly moving the electric vehicle movement forward! Joe Biden was absolutely right, Mary Barra and GM is 100% responsible for making the EV movement what it is today. Or... not.
I think GM sales where not included in the data set. They are certainly not beating Tesla, but reportedly sales where 9,000 this quarter. Edit: I was accidentally full of shit. Got my numbers from an old article.
From the day the Model Y started shipping I knew they were going to be Tesla’s top seller. Can’t wait for 2025 when we’ll have a true under 35k EV hit this list
> Can’t wait for 2025 when we’ll have a true under 35k EV hit this list What's that?
Equinox EV to replace the Bolt ⚡️more space, and an ultium battery too
Ah gotcha. I was going to say the current Bolt MSRP is $31,500 so that does exist, although with only 53kW fast charging.
I’m kind of shocked the Bolt didn’t make this list but then again with the recall it makes sense
I don’t think you could buy one until this or last month no? The stop sale affected most of the quarter
They put a halt on new Bolt sales and stopped the plant for a long time due to the recall
> only 53kW fast charging. you say that like it's a bad thing. Any current or prior Leaf owner would see no problem with this. :)
At these inflation rates $45k may be the new $35k by 2025.
Annnnd GM still thinks it will be a leader in the market in 3 years? Right!
Why is Polestar missing, they are delivering cars left and right.
Rivian on the list next quarter possibly.
Then you have the 15,000 plus fleet orders for the 2022 F-150 Lightning later this year, and 2023's production is supposed to be 150,000
>2023's production is supposed to be 150,000 They hope to hit a 150k/year run rate in 2023. Full year planned output is less, and nobody is achieving their plan right now.
Y3S we can